tv Piers Morgan Live CNN December 22, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
partner. it's 20 generations after adam and eve that he first meets abraham. >> when we first meet abraham in the book of genesis, we're told that he had settled with his father and his wife sarah in a town called haran. a place where people were known to worship many different gods. and then out of the blue, this lowly shepherd received a call from the god of the hebrew bible, summoning him to leave his home for a new life at once. >> god says to abraham, go to this land that i will show you and i will make of you a great nation. it would have been helpful if abraham would have said which land, and by the way, does it have oil. >> but abraham did not question god's promise, and this one man's unflinching devotion to only one god reverberates
throughout the bible. it is the foundation of three great monotheistic faiths. >> you can't get to god without going through abraham. >> he quickly left behind the trappings of city life and set off with his family on a journey toward the promised land of canaan. >> it's a decision to leave everything that's familiar to you. i mean, it's letting go of everything and embracing the unknown. it's life-changing. >> here in southern turkey near haran, we met anna and david landis. an american couple raised christian, they're writing a guide book that will allow people of all faiths to follow the same path that abraham took. >> i think there's something always powerful about going to a place from the bible, from the stories that you've heard as a child.
i think that makes the whole story feel more real. >> abraham took this journey 4,000 years ago and now we're just dusting off his footsteps and inviting people to experience that story today. >> anna and david are part of an unprecedented initiative called abraham's parth. its mission is to break down barriers in this, one of the most divided regions in the world. because attempts to lay claim to the man who first worshipped one god and to his legacy have been the source of constant conflict and bloodshed among the three faiths. >> monotheism wants to say our religion is the only one, therefore yours is wrong, and if carried far enough, it means you have no right to live. >> but for those following in the path of the biblical patriarch, there is hope that the lessons of abraham's story can bring these same groups
closer together. >> how are you? >> very good. you? >> people are very enthusiastic about the story of abraham. people would stop us and say have you heard about abraham? i think there's something special there where i can say yes, this is part of my story, too. >> could you tell us about the story of abraham? >> but the truth is, there's no archaeological evidence of abraham or where he traveled. there's a centuries old tradition in southern turkey that says abraham's birthplace is here in this cave. but it's not the only cave to have made such a claim. could it instead have been here in syria? or here in southern iraq at a place some call the house of abraham? but the architect behind it was saddam hussein, so that timing is just a little off. was he born in turkey?
where was abraham born? >> yes. >> both. >> he goes down to the promised land, goes to egypt, and comes back. the story is trying to connect him to the entire arc of the region. >> it's a story shared by about half the world. abraham's path will eventually wind through ten countries. our next stop is in the biblical land of canaan, which is now israel in the west bank. my guide on this part of abraham's path is abner goran and his archaeologist. >> if somebody is thinking of getting back to roots, coming back to be in touch with god, this is always the place. >> it's always kind of shocking to me that these immense stories, more than two, three billion people believe in,
christian, jew, moslem. there's not a rock that connects them. you're an archaeologist. doesn't that trouble you? >> because i would love to hear more concrete about abraham. but i think that i can cope with the fact that archaeologists pool here. >> on the path, we met a young shepherd. as it so happened -- >> what's his name? >> abraham. >> ibrahim. abraham. the name of the biblical patriarch remains popular with all three faiths today. >> we have so much in common believing in the same father and being from the same family. and sharing a lot of the values. >> the story of how this extended family came to be begins with heartbreak. although abraham and his wife sarah had tried for years, they
were unable to conceive a child. >> sarah married to abraham ten years was barren. she offered her maid to abraham for surrogacy. >> once hagar had given birth to a boy named ismael, sarah told abraham she wanted both of them out for good. >> you see hagar's extreme disrest in the bible. and then god appears to her and he says fear not, from this child i will also make a great people. and those are the arab people. >> arabs to this day trace their lineage right back to abraham through ismael. every year, millions of muslims make a pilgrimage to the place they believe ismael made his home, mecca in saudi arabia. here, moslems also believe that abraham came to visit ismael and together they built islam's
first house of worship. the bible doesn't mention mecca. instead, it tells us abraham finally found a permanent home in canaan. he and sarah had settled into their old age. perhaps at last enjoying some measure of tranquility after all they had endured. then, unexpected visitors appeared and changed their lives again. >> abraham sees three men. he greets them. sarah hurries to make them a meal. hospitality is quintessential. >> in nomadic cultures, travelers in these barren landscapes could never have survived without the kindness of strangers. >> when you're out wandering into a new village and you meet someone and they offer you a cup of coffee or tea, those are the moments that define abraham for
me. >> what do we have here? very nice to meet you. >> abner brought me to one spot where this man welcomes travelers of all faiths to share a meal with him. his meal is much like the one sarah and abraham might have offered strangers who came to their home. >> at that meal, they announce that sarah, now almost 90, will have a child. she laughs with incredulity. >> what sarah and abraham didn't know, the bible tells us, was that the visitors were actually angels bringing them a message from god. and it did come to pass, sarah gave birth to the child she had wanted for so long, a son named isaac. his descendents became the jewish people. next, a family feud that
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so everything works like never before. and now, a father's love. a terrible secret. but did one man of immense faith go too far? "back to beginning with christiane amanpour" continues. >> the landscape of the bible is as brutal as it is breathtaking. here, it's easy to imagine the suffering and the patience it took for a family to survive in abraham's time, and why it's here that god would demand a sacrifice so stark and so unforgiving that he would never
again ask for anything like it. i'm standing under the rock where moslems believe the prophet muhammad ascended to hen. and this is holy to all three religions, because jews and christians believe that this is where god commanded abraham to bring his son isaac for sacrifice. today, this place is marked by the familiar gold dome of the rock that dominates the old city of jerusalem. and it sits on one of the most contested sites in the world. even the name of this site is complicated. jews call it the temple mount, while moslems call it noble sanctuary. on one side is the western wall, the holiest site the jews come to pray at. and nearby, the christian church. in just one square mile, the most revered places of each of
the three religions. and this is also the place where the bible tells us that god had finally demanded too much. abraham had waited into very old age for the children that god had promised. he had already been told to send his first son ismael away. now only isaac was left at home. >> abraham, for better or for worse, is used to hearing god's voice. and one day, as the torah tells us in genesis 22, god decides to test abraham. and he says, "take your son, your only son, whom you love, and offer him as a sacrifice at the place that i will show you." >> god was telling abraham to kill his own son. ♪ >> you would think that that
story is so barbaric that it would have died out over time. instead, jews read it in their hollywoodie holiest week of the year. christians read it their holiest week of the year. muslims read it, the same story, in their holiest week of the year. >> to this day, the story is commemorated by moslems all over the world on a holiday. the hassan family are american moslems living in new jersey. one son yusef is about the same age abraham's son would have been. and he's trying to imagine how he would have felt. >> he was probably extremely scared at what was going to happen and very worried for his dad because he knew his dad was going through a long trouble just getting over the fact that he had to kill his own son. but i'm sure he understood that it had come from a higher power. >> for jews and christians, too,
the story of what happened next is the same. abraham's faith was absolute. he didn't argue with god. he tied up his son and laid him on the rock, and then he drew his knife. >> and as the story goes, abraham literally lifts the knife before god says "abraham, abraham, you don't have to do this." >> so the son was spared and a lamb appeared to take his place. >> one of the abiding lessons we're meant to learn from genesis is obedience to god. that if you are obedient, then in the end, you are rewarded. >> moslems believe ismael, not isaac, was the son abraham was called upon to sacrifice, but the essence of the story is the same across the three religions. >> is it heartbreaking to think that that patriarch, this person who we believe is the father of our religions, was this close to
committing murder, killing his son? >> i don't know if it's heartbreaking or not, but i know it's eye-opening and that it's important. because abraham introduces the idea that you can kill in the name of god. i think it's important for everybody to understand that this idea is imbedded in these biblical stories. this is not all kumbaya and come live in peace and oh, you like butterflies and love your children and therefore we can all get along. >> and yet, the story is not an endorsement in killing in the name of god. >> so it's a test. god is testing him. he doesn't really intend for him to kill his son. >> at a time when offering human sacrifice was common, this story was a call to end that barbaric practice. still, here and in so many places around the world, so many thousands of years later, the sacrifice of sons and daughters
in the name of god and faith goes on and tragically on. ♪ god may have been demanding total submission, but he also decided in the end that a human life has more value than blind obedience. >> and in the end, of course, ismael lives. isaac lives. >> and taking this journey with my own son dareus brought these stories to life in the most profound and visceral way. >> beautiful, right? >> yeah, it's crazy. >> it was a reminder of how personal the stories of our ancient religious text can feel and why they remain so powerful etch to this day. coming up, from the holy land to america's heartland, why
are we headed to branson, missouri? and what can we uncover there about the spectacular story of joseph? the answer when "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" returns. we're aig. and we're here. to help secure retirements and protect financial futures. to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to global. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us. and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig, happy holidays.
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amazing dreams. "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" continues. >> our journey through the old testament has taken us from the barren deserts of the bible lands to the lush farm country of the bible belt. just outside branson, missouri, we took a turn on shepherd of the hills expressway. so now we're approaching this massive building. it's the sight and sound theatre, a replica of something that might have been in the ancient, ancient east during biblical times. this is what they tell us is christian broadway. and nine times a week, every week, thousands of people come from across the country to watch their favorite bible stories come alive. when we visited, abraham's great
grandson joseph was sent to stage. what most people probably immediately would think is joseph and the amazing technicolor dream coat. >> this is the true biblical account. >> less coat, more joseph? >> the show's not about the coat. it's a universal message of forgiveness, and forgiveness is right at the heart of salvation itself. >> at sight and sound, they say the mission is selling this message, not just tickets. although when we visited, joseph had grossed almost $40 million that season alone. >> we don't do it for the pocketbook. we do it because we believe in the message of jesus christ. >> is it evangelizing? >> absolutely. it's very evangelical. >> and everyone here from the stage hands to the leading actors is christian. before every performance, they pray together. >> what we do is we seek the lord in prayer. what's the story that you think
is relevant to today? but also, the stories in the bible are rich with the twists and turns and the drama that we're all looking for, particularly the epic stories of the old testament. >> the rocks are actually cushioned here, so that's always nice. >> these are the most comfortable rocks i've ever sat on. >> that's right. >> i got a behind-the-scenes tour from joseph himself. >> you're not just playing joseph. your name is joseph, right? joey, right? >> joseph. >> joey believes that like joseph from the bible, god has a plan for him, too. >> my mom had a child and he passed and my mom woke up in the middle of the night and said that god had told her that she would restore the son that she lost and that she should name him joseph. and now i'm in my first sight and sound show playing joseph. >> that's pretty neat. >> yeah, it's definitely one
divine appointment after another that i believe god set up. >> blessed be the god of abraham, isaac, and me! >> joey didn't play joseph every night. sight and sound has multiple cast for their multiple productions. but they all perform with equal passion and faith. the biblical joseph is one of jacob's 12 sons, and he is clearly his father's favorite. >> my precious joseph. >> and this makes joseph's brothers hate him. >> you're not trying to take my place as the first born, are you? >> you're already father's favorite. >> you're no greater than we are. >> and it gets worse, when joseph has dreams that he thinks a message is from god and brags about it. >> and i was raised up, and then all of you bowed down to me. >> always family dynamics at
work. really at this boiling point. >> like many modern families. >> exactly. >> like in so many modern families, the brothers give in to their jealousies and fears. >> god has delivered joseph into our hands. we can kill him now. >> but in a distinctly biblical way. >> you lied. >> while they've got joseph in that pit screaming help, help, help, they're eating lunch. you know, pass the goat cheese. they're happy as can be. that's why i love the bible, because it's warts and all. it's not a book that glosses. it just tells it as it is. >> we come in peace. >> the chance to get some money makes the brothers think twice, so instead of killing joseph, they sell him to the slave traders who take him off toe egypt. and this is where sight and sound pulls out all the stops. to transport their audience to a
bible base storybook version of an ancient egypt with everything you might imagine there to be. deserts, pyramids, and, of course, camels. even though no one's quite sure when camels first came to egypt. >> we've got two of our camels right here. they're in the show. >> did you see the camel? he won't bite my face off? because those are serious teeth in there. >> yeah, they can clamp down. >> let me see your teeth. the performance vividly captures the sweeping and melodramatic twists of fate in the bible. he goes from being an egyptian slave and prisoner to the pharaoh's second in command. >> i hereby put you in charge of the entire land of egypt! >> that's because he correctly interprets the pharaoh's dream,
and thus saves egypt from a devastating famine. and being a man of god, forgives the brothers who left him for dead. >> brothers. i forgive you. >> the truth and the principles of the story are so powerful and so basic to humanity. >> do you believe this really happened? >> absolutely. i do. faith is believing in something that you cannot see. >> but, as we're about to discover, there may be some parts of the joseph story that you can see. coming up, just minutes away, in the land of the pyramids and pharaohs, clues that reveal what joseph dreamed may have indeed really happened. travel to egypt when "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" returns. running hard down roads of your own making. and declaring, "i...am...alive."
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and now, we travel to ancient egypt. buried beneath the stand, is there evidence of the story of joseph? "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" continues. >> egypt. land of the pharaohs, home to one of the world's greatest civilizations. a kingdom that dominated this vast region for 3,000 years. at the same moment as the stories of the bible. the egyptian landscape is littered with the remains of its
ancient past. and in dusting off these ruins, archaeologists have found a treasure-trove of clues about the empire's captivating culture. and about the truth behind the stories of the bible. >> the question really is how much historical information is there in the bible. the story behind the story is what we are trying to get at. >> my son dareus and i journey to egypt to see what, if anything, about joseph is grounded in fact. we decided to start our search with a bird's eye view. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh. i can't believe it. ancient ruins practically hit you in the face. but what's truly stunning is the impact of water. so here you can see absolutely
clearly what water does. the whole of egyptian civilization, the story of the bible, everything revolves around water. and not just any water. the great waterway that is the river nile. crops, livestock, transportation, riches. the mighty egyptian empire would never have been possible without it. on east and west bank, fertile. green as far as the eye can see. and still you hit the desert. there's life, and then frankly death. >> the bible has an enormous concern for natural resources. but what happens when we get into history is history is chaotic. we find famine. we find flood. we find plague. how do we understand life when the ground won't yield. or our children are flooded out of their homes. the bible allows us to raise those questions. >> and the story of joseph answers one of those questions. he interpreted the pharaoh's
dream, that a great famine would sweep the land. >> indeed, joseph in egypt is able to predict a cycle of famine and prepare for it during a cycle of plenty. >> the nile's ability to provide for humanity is as abundant now as it was in biblical times. today, 95% of egypt's population of 80 million people lives along its banks. this is what you can see from space at night. lights show life clinging to the desert river. plenty of reason for the israelits to venture into egypt from the vast surrounding deserts where they lived. >> we do know that in early times, by 2000 bc, the people from southern parts of modern israel, would be crossing the sinai with their herds and residing in the eastern delta, which is exactly the area called goshun in the bible.
>> they came for the water and for the trade, but they also came against their will. we saw etchings and hieroglyphics depicting egyptian conquests and a fleur inning save trade that may have brought joseph here to egypt after his jealous brother's saw him. >> you see the pharaoh sitting there. this is ramsey's himself. notice that these people are under his feet. >> now we're at the temple of luxor, magnificent ruins that date back before the time of a great pharaoh called ramsese. >> some of these were from the area of what would be southern israel today, or sinai. >> so if there is evidence of israelits in bondage here at about the time of joseph's story, what about evidence of his rise from lowly slave to the pharaoh's right-hand man? >> the story of a boy that rises
to the position of prime minister sounds fantastic. but it's not at all. joseph fits remarkably well into what we know in egypt around 1500 bc. >> there's evidence at that time of the egyptian empire starting to weaken, when the pharaoh couldn't control every last corner of his vast empire, and a group of newcomers from the east was able to gain some power. >> that story, despite the miraculous elements, probably is grounded in actual events. >> and what about that special gift of joseph's, that enraged his brothers so much and impressed the pharaoh? joseph attracted the attention of the pharaohs because of his talent in interpreting dreams. he even interpreted the pharaoh's dreams. just as they are today, dreams were incredibly important to ancient egyptians as well. and we know that because of the
sphinx. between its paws is what's called as the dream stealer. it indicates something else that's important as well. >> the writer, or whoever it was that composed the joseph story, knew an egypt of the seventh through fourth century bc. >> even clues about joseph's famous many colored coat can be seen in these carvings. >> you see peoples from canaan coming as traders. the egyptians obviously were fascinated by them, because their clothing, which reminds us of the coat of many colors and the joseph story were painted with the most care. >> these ruins helped build a clearer picture of joseph's time, even if they don't prove that joseph ever lived. they also set the stage for a dramatic struggle against the mighty egyptian empire, the bible's greatest story of the fight for freedom. coming up, what do we know
about moses? his birthplace, his childhood in the pharaoh's palace, who really built the pyramids? when "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" returns. 300 days? 3,000 days? the answer is... 3,000 days. because of gasoline's high energy density, your car doesn't have to carry as much fuel compared to other energy sources. take the energy quiz. energy lives here.
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and now, we sail down the nile. what new information did we find about the pyramids and does it have anything to do with moses? "back to the beginning with christiane amanpour" continues. we start the next leg of our journey with captain ahmed at the helm and a warm wind at our back. as this faluka sails up the river nile, i'm struck by the power and the history of egypt's majestic waterway. we're here because this is the backdrop for the bible's timeless story of freedom and redemption. this is where the moses story begins. his mother had put him inside a reed basket and placed him on the nile to save him and to protect him from the terror of the pharaoh at the time, who was having israelite children murdered. a prophet and a teacher, a leader and a liberator, moses is revered by christians, moslems
and jews the world over. >> she is really, really fast. >> his story has touched so many lives, like captain ahmed's. he's a devout moslem. what do you think moses looked like? what does his face look like? >> beard? >> no. without a beard. a little. but not big. >> not big. what's the most important thing for you about moses? >> translator: he served humanity. god sent him to free the people from the pharaoh. >> well, if i'm a slave and i've got a brutal master, and somebody's telling me about a guy who set his people free, i like that guy. i really do. >> the bible tells us the israelites were enslaved because the pharaoh was worried that they had become too mighty in
the land of egypt. >> at a certain point, the jews became so numerous that, you know, pharaoh said we are going to have a demographic problem soon. there are going to be too many jews. >> pharaoh then ordered the women, whose job it was to bring israelite babies into the world, to immediately kill any boys they delivered. but two refused. >> it is supposedly the first written instance of any civil disobedience. >> it's really important what the midwives did. >> it's an instructive moment, as martin luther king wrote there are just and unjust laws. when we encounter an unjust law, we are obligated to disobey. >> like moses's mother who disobeys pharaoh, she hides her infant son as long as she can. but then she has to make a desperate decision. as you look at the modern nile,
it's hard to imagine this heartbreaking scene from a story set more than 3,000 years ago. but just across the river, we find a more accessible window on this past. >> what are we doing here? it's kind of kitsch, isn't it? lori lives and works in egypt. we met her at a theme park of sorts, a place where tourists can go to see the moses story come to life. the moses story happened along somewhere that looked very much like this. >> right. right. >> most of us picture ancient egypt with its huge monuments and its grandeur. but lori says most people live simple lives, as farmers and fishermen. what's he doing? >> he is fishing. he's trying to scare the fish into the right place. >> there they are.
are they real? >> they're probably -- >> plastic? >> plastic. >> despite the low-budget special effects, lori lawson tells me it's fairly accurate in its depiction in the world moses was born into. >> the text tells us his mother made a basket and put him in it, and pushed him off undoubtedly in just the right place so someone would find him. >> guess what. >> and here he is. >> as if we had planned it. >> very nice. >> in a twist of fate typical of the biblical narrative, moses winds up at the home of the very man who ordered his death. >> he's rescued by none other than pharaoh's daughter. pharaoh's daughter adopts him. >> the text does tell us that he was educated in all of the ways of the egyptians, so he was educated as a warrior, in reading and writing, and in all ways. >> as moses grows up in the palace, among the egyptian elite, we're told that his
people, the israelites, labor rigorously with bricks and mortar. and of all the building projects from the time of the pharaohs, one stands alone. we're driving through quite a bleak part of cairo, really very ungrand, if you like. and yet we're about to happen across one of the greatest feats of human engineering ever, ever contemplated. what everybody thinks they know about the pyramids is that these the israelites built them. we are going to find out whether that's true. >> i'm going to show you a very interesting discovery. >> zahi is a famous egyptian archaeologist. he says a massive amount of manpower would have been needed to build these pyramids. whose pyramid is that? and that took 10,000 people? >> 10,000 worker men actually lift here in this place. >> next to the ruins of the village where the workmen lived,
there's an ancient cemetery. the tombs of the pyramid builders are a significant discovery that's answered many questions about who they were. okay, were the builder of the pyramids israelites? >> at all, no. >> come on, everybody thinks they were. >> this is not true. this is the idea that maybe you think about it because you never studied anything. >> while he is setting me straight, my son dareus is checking out one of the tombs. >> that's his son who wants a bird. and he gets a bird. now the story is over. >> maybe we should leave the hieroglyphics to the experts. but before i'm taken into the tomb, a friendly warning. >> this tomb has a curse inscription. >> i don't want to go in then. >> i will take you. because if you will switch what i'm talking in this program, the curse of the pharaohs will list
only you. >> he shows me evidence ha that the pyramids were not built by the israelites. >> this is an egyptian name. all the names found in every tomb here, completely egyptians. >> and he says the way the workers were buried also provides evidence that they were not slaves. he believes they were simply poor laborers who paid their taxes by toiling for the pharaoh. >> a tomb of a pure man who has nothing. he built a mud brick tomb and beside him, a yard to have a beer in the afterlife. beer were invented in ancient egypt. they had michelob. >> the krd that tidea that the were built by israelite slaves is a popular misconception. but there is evidence that the israelites did work on other building projects in ancient
egypt. >> they were debating in the concoction of timbers. which was later. like 900 years from now. >> the bible tells us that even though moses is learning to be an egyptian, he can see that his people are suffering. and he never forgets where he came from. >> he sees a moment in which an egyptian abuses an israelite slave. >> moses has some anger management issues. he beats an egyptian around. he thinks he's gotten away with it. >> but the pharaoh hears about what happened and tries to have moses killed. >> now he's a wanted murderer. he flees far from his family, far from egypt. >> moses heads into the unforgiving sinai desert, where
we visit the real armageddon and we climb mount sinai where the bible says moses received the ten commandments. so join us again as we continue our journey back, back to the beginning. until then, i'm christiane amanpour. good night from jerusalem. here are your headlines from the cnn newsroom. be it snow, ice, or rain, bizarre and deadly storms are creating havoc for millions. the situation is especially
urgent in the northeast. roughly 350,000 people are without power in new york, new england, and toronto. snow and flooding are causing trouble farther west. four people were killed in storm-related accidents sunday. three died when a car veered off a bridge into a river overnight near new hope, south of louisville, kentucky. that brings the number to seven people killed in severe weekend storms. the u.s. is now trying to determine if there are any more americans so evacuate from south sudan. officials say all americans who showed up at a u.n. camp in the ton of bor were air lifted out of that troubled nation. the successful rescues have been one day after failed attempts that left four u.s. troops wounded. the fighting there has grown worse since south sudan's president threw out his cabinet. president obama is being briefed on the situation as he vacations in hawaii. target says it's moving quickly after the hacking of 40
million credit card and debit card accounts. the company is offering free credit monitoring to affected customers. new york senator charles schumer says he wants a federal investigation. >> if there is one silver lining in this mess, it's perhaps that we can use this troubling news as a lesson for the future. we can get to the bottom of how target's in-store payment security was compromised in order to make sure that target in the future and all other stores adequately protect consumers from this kind of devastating theft. >> the data hack affected customers who shopped at target between november 27th and december 15th. there are reports that some of the stolen credit and debit card numbers are already for sale on the black market. nasa says a second emergency space walk is set for tuesday. astronauts spent several hours saturday working on a
replacement for a broken cooling pump. without the pump, some of the station's important electronics have been shut down. the second space walk was originally scheduled for monday, but that's being delayed while they make adjustments to one of the space suits. i'm rosa flores, you're watching cnn, the most trusted name in news. tonight on "back to the beginning," did the exodus happen? >> can we see the ark of the covenant? >> soon, the world as we know it will come to an end. >> come with us as we continue our epic journey around the world and across time, as a war correspondent who has seen everything that tears us apart -- >> christiane amanpour in israel. >> searches for what unites us. >>