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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  April 20, 2014 3:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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korea where they're desperately clinging to the slim chance that someone is still alive on that sunken ferry. realistic hope, however, is clearly fading. five agonizing days have passed since the ship tipped over and sank with hundreds on board. most of the passengers teenagers on a high school trip. the new figure today 59 people have now been found by rescue diver, none of them alive. 243 people are still inside that ferry. and i'm about to play for you the frantic audio conversation between the crew of the ship and boat traffic controllers on shore just as tragedy struck. this is what was happening when the ferry started listing and someone had to make the call to abandon ship.
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>> you can hear the panic in their voices here. and people who survived the sinking say that by that point the ferry was already tipped over so sharply that the life boats had become useless. just eight minutes later controllers were urging the captain to order everyone off the ship. have a listen to this report.
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>> you can hear the panic, the stress in those voices there. of course, that order to evacuate the ship didn't apparently happen. and now you have heartbreaking moments captured on camera. searchers bring bodies of ferry victims back on to shore. because many of those dead are high school students, just teenagers the search effort is taking its toll on everyone, even veteran emergency workers. our kyung lah is live there. we know that, of course, the families suffering the most here. but it's incredible to see those grizzled veterans breaking down really the emotion just too much for them. >> and responded to similar
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disasters, large disasters here in south korea and are certainly being affected. because this is all happening in the open. these boats coming back to port where the families are waiting. hundreds of parents waiting on their children. the first police boat returns from the search site. parents waiting, bracing. they return one by one in identical plain white bags. behind the screen initial inspection. a blanket to cover. and a short march back to land. parents rush to the white tents to identify their children.
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"you must have said, daddy save me" weeps this father. no one is immune to the sound of losing a child. as the families leave the tents, so, too, do the stretchers emptied, returning to the gurneys that await the next boat. another group of someone's childr children. another march back to the tents. 13 return in this group, but more than 200 are still missing. gurneys on the left side of the dock. divers board ships to the right to continue the search. to bring the rest home. and in a telling sign that hope is dimming, this port, this area that we've seen so many parents
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standing by the dock looking out at sea, waiting for their children, there are fewer and fewer parents, jim, who are doing so. >> well, we've seen kyung, this accelerate, bringing those bodies ashore. we spoke yesterday how it is dangerous for the divers to come in. that's changed now, is that right? >> it has changed. because there have been now a clear path cut into the hull of the ship. there are a number of entryways that divers can go in and out. that was the big challenge. they couldn't figure out how to crack the windows, there's so much pressure inside the ship. they've been able to do that. there are five pathways in and out. so that's why we've seen the acceleration of victims being pulled out. there is -- at least some of the parents here, there's a slim hope that there might be an air pocket in there. but so far they've not found any survivors. >> heartbreaking to watch, just
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bringing back bad news from there, those rescuers. thanks to kyung lah in south korea. turning now to the hunt for malaysia flight 370, families are furious after today's special briefing with the new malaysian committee that was designed to help them. family members say the meeting in kuala lumpur, the capital of malaysia, was totally useless. it is their 45th day of waiting. we have more. >> reporter: jim, malaysia families for the most part have been keeping to themselves. they're in no mood to talk. they say they don't want to believe anything or say anything until they see anything. so there was a lot of expectation of family members on board were called for a special briefing by malaysian authorities. many, though, left even more disappointed. they've been waiting for weeks, hoping, praying for good news.
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families of passengers and crew members on board mh-370, arrive for a briefing with malaysian airlines and government officials. some anxious, others visibly distraught. escorted by caretakers, two chinese women can barely hold themselves. after the briefing, even more frustration. the briefing with families of mh-370 ended just a while ago. we saw them walk out, many unsatisfied. they say they ask numerous questions but most remain unanswered. questions on why the flight path is still unclear. how authorities can say the plane ended in the indian ocean when there's no evidence? >> i can completely understand their need to find answers. however, as i see it in the briefing right now, we are looking for the answers
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ourselves. >> reporter: hamid rana took this photo of his daughter and son-in-law just before they boarded mh-370. they were on their way to bei beijing for their honeymoon. their first trip out of malaysian. >> i believe that the government didn't try to hide something or hide some information from us. they are telling the truth. but then mostly the members of the victims, the families, they do not want to believe. >> reporter: his wife is one of them. >> my wife cannot accept it. she still believes that the airplane was hijacked and she believed that my daughter is still alive. >> reporter: it's a common sentiment here. they've been asked to provide details on what kind of financial assistance they may require and what can be done to help them move on? but before those believe that their loved ones are still
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alive, this is not what they want to hear. what they want is answers to very specific questions, jim, but unfortunately more than a month after the plane disappeared, authorities here have very little to give them. jim? >> thanks, sumnima. rubin "hurricane" carter whose boxing career was cut short after being wrongly convicted of murder, has died. we'll take a look back at his remarkable life. plus is vladimir putin longing for days of the soviet union? we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪
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a second deadly air strike targeting al qaeda has hit yemen today. the suspected drone strike killed at least a dozen people including a number of suspected al qaeda militants in a southwestern province of that country. that's according to a yemeni government official. yesterday another strike in a neighboring province killed ten suspected al qaeda members. a source says that saturday's strike was targeting three
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well-known operatives linked to a terror training camp there. three civilians were also killed in that attack. and now to ukraine. in an effort to de-escalate the crisis there is on shaky ground today. a deadly shooting in a ukrainian told controlled by russian separatists leaves several dead. this is the latest example of why some think this is all part of an elaborate plan by russian president vladimir putin. listen to what the prime minister of ukraine had to say today on nbc's "meet the press" about russia's intentions there. >> putin has a dream to restore the soviet union. and every day he goes further and further and god knows where is the final destination. >> joining me now is anton
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yashine. the director of russian culture at american university. first, if i could ask you about what the ukrainian prime minister said today. we saw russian action in crimea succeeded effectively annexing that place. now you see activity in eastern ukraine, activity by russian separatists. do you believe that president putin is trying to reclaim territory lost after the collapse of the soviet union? >> i don't think, jim, i don't think this is what president putin is trying to do, although there certainly have been moves by the russians especially in crimea that are easily mistaken for that. i think what he's doing is reinforcing a very dangerous illusion that all of ukraine's problems are being caused by russia, as if the ukrainian political elite hasn't been ruling that country for almost a sxwreneration and it's not in large part responsible for all of the problems that that country is going through right now. >> well, that's a fair point
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that there's a lot of responsibility spread around, but let's talk specifically about what's happening in eastern ukraine now. you have pro-russian militants that u.s. officials believe are not acting on their own but are directed by moscow. moscow, in the view of the u.s. administration, guilty of their own meddling there. without clawing back territory soviet style here, can russia still accomplish its objectives by destabilizing the situation in eastern ukraine? >> jim, i don't think that the russian goal is really to destabilize ukraine. i think the russian goal is to ensure that there's a federalized ukraine that comes out of this crisis. but remember russia is the largest direct investor in eastern ukrainian industry. it also has an enormous amount of gas going through ukraine. it is not in russia's interests to see this country implode in a civil war. it will completely undermine the billions of dollars that russia has been investing in ukraine.
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>> well, no one wants a civil war, i imagine. but you have activity here that is not accepting and, again, this is the view of u.s. and european officials accepted by international law as a way of accomplishing goals there, sending in armed groups of men to take over government buildings, this type of thing. are you saying that that's a reasonable way to push for a more federalist system inside ukraine? >> absolutely not. but we have no direct proof that this is actually happening. as a matter of fact today, the head of the osce mission in the region stated this clearly in an interview, there are signs this may be going on, but there's no direct proof. what there is direct proof of is the anti-terrorist campaign that kiev launched dissolved in front of the whole world's eyes as the local population did not want to see a military solution to the crisis. so i think we're all left with having to believe what president
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putin has said, which is that russia wants a diplomatic solution. and this is the perfect time for the europeans and the russians and ukrainians to start move along incrementally with the geneva accord. >> after what happened in crimea, do you believe putin's expressioned interests in a solution are credible? >> i think they are. because to swallow up the eastern part of ukraine will be such an enormous financial burden for russia, that i don't see how someone as coldly rational and calculating as putin would actually ever believe that this is something he can pull off not to mention the enormous diplomatic blow back that this will create. >> thank you very much. one view of the situation on the ground in eastern ukraine. >> thank you. >> back here in the u.s., thousands of marijuana lovers have traveled to denver for the
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cannabis cup. but they say don't be fooled by the music and party. they're there for a real cause. we'll have that right after this break. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money?
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here in the u.s. tens of thousands of people around the world have traveled to denver this weekend and, no, it's not to celebrate easter.
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that's right. the mile high city is celebrating getting high. anna cabrera right in the middle of the 420 festival. what do they say they're there for, besides the obvious? >> obviously people are here to celebrate the marijuana lifestyle. that's what we're told, of course, at 420 everybody is now enjoying their marijuana here at civic center park, although it is still illegal, i would remind you, to smoke marijuana in public. they're here to advance the legalization of marijuana which many consider the cannabis capital of the country. they're here to call for the end of prohibition of marijuana nationwide. if you look at our latest cnn poll, we know that americans now support some form of legalization of marijuana. but 20 states now advancing the laws that will allow medicinal
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marijuana to help treat cancer patients, treat epilepsy, to control pain, to support, jim, marijuana supporters believe that their effort is getting some momentum. >> all right, thank you. you are literally -- >> when we were kids you used it just as a joke, 420, time to smoke. but now it's a symbol of fleem. now it's a serious thing. i think people think we're playing some big joke on america. and that's not what it is. this is progress. my son's sitting here. that's progress. >> so that woman we talked to is a marijuana business owner. she's here with her 5-year-old son in an effort to show how marijuana's becoming more mainstream. it also brings up the fact that marijuana is becoming big business here in colorado and also in other states where some form of marijuana is now legal. back to you. >> yeah, a lot of states talking about the tax revenue there. thanks very much to anna
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cabrera, literally right in the middle of the forest there. rubin "hurricane" carter has died. the former boxer was 76. now a lot of people saw the hurricane fight opponents inside the ring but know more about his story of being wrongly convicted of a murder in the movie "hurricane." we're joined with more about the boxer's life. a fascinating life, a story of turning a life around. >> in a recent interview with cnn, rubin "hurricane" carter said his greatest life accomplishment was not letting the bitterness or frustration that overcame him, it was res t resisting those temptations. they spent time in bars before a judge overturned his conviction. carter spent the rest of his life fighting for people like him. he became the first executive director of the association defense of the wrongfully convicted. that was a title that he held
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until 2004. many of you watching at home may remember rubin carter from that 1999 film starring denzel washington called "the hurricane county ". and his memory was immortalized in a song by bob dylan. it was a legacy he left behind for those fighting for justice. i want to read a statement that we got a moment ago from denzel washington, the star of that movie. god bless rubin carter and his tireless fight to ensure justice for all. carter did sit down with cnn a couple years ago. he did admit he was no saint. he did plenty of wrong in his life including assaults and robberies. his critics may remember him for that but his supporters that will always remember him as a boxer who never quite got to that championship title that he -- a lot of people felt that he deserved. but without that belt, he was still a champion to so many people. he was 76 years old and died in toronto, canada. >> and went on to champion others wrongly convicted like
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himself. turning now to the search for malaysia flight 370. if searchers do find the black box, they'll be looking for any clues from the recordings including this. how much, you ask, that tone tell investigators about what happened? right after this we'll explain. '. and we own the paper cottage. it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. co: until you're sure you need a hotel room bartender: thanks, captain obvious.
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mom has a headache! had a headache! but now, i& don't. excedrin is fast. in fact for some, relief starts in just 15 minutes. excedrin. headache. gone. welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in new york. the hunt for malaysia 370 crews are returning to hunt for any sign of the missing jet on this, the 45th day since the 777 airliner disappeared. also we're waiting for the bluefin 21 to surface from its latest mission. the underwater drone has scoured at least half of that current search zone. we want to go first to correspondent michael holmes at the search base in perth,
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australia. tell us what's the latest with the search. there was urgency injected into all this yesterday when officials started talking about the next five, six days as being crucial. >> yeah, that's right, jim, good to see you. another week under way in the hunt for malaysia flight 370. the search as you said that the acting transport minister in malaysia said yesterday has reached, in his words, a critical juncture, both he and the australian prime minister have said the search of this more narrowly defined area of the sea bed should be completed by the end of the week. we're talking about a six-mile radius around where that second acoustic sound was picked up that they hope was from the black box. you're talking about a 120-odd square miles in all and they've covered nearly half of it. certainly they still feel it's their best shot to find the plane and those on board. the eighth mission of bluefin 21 should be ending soon, jim, if all has gone well.
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and we're waiting to see if it's been more successful than the previous seven dives. as you mentioned the planes and ships still searching for surface debris but nothing found after 44 days. hope surely fading there. i can tell you, too, a cyclone or, in north american parlance, a hurricane, not all that far from this search area. that will make the waves much, much higher in the days ahead. the malaysian acting transport minister today asked for prayers this week. they might be needed, jim. >> that bluefin 21 about halfway through that long walk on the ocean floor as it's been described to us. moving at walking pace. michael holmes, definitely be coming back to him in perth. i want you to listen to this sound and tell us what you think about it. now, for most of us, we hear just a fuzzy, annoying sound, not really clear what it is. but when audio experts take that
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sound, they can figure out what happened a plane's cockpit. the sounds are actually from alerts from cockpit recorders and alerts can indicate scenarios like an engine fire or sudden drop in altitude, some of the theories of what happened to the missing malaysian jet. we want to bring in paul ginsburg look with the rest, michael kay here and mary schiavo on the line. as you listened to that sound, we had first fuzzy kind. i want to play for viewers an enhanced version of that same cockpit alert. have a list been en to this one. so a couple things this indicates. one it indicates you really need an expert to listen to this audio because the raw stuff is just hard to discern. but once an expert like you listens to something like that, what kind of alert are we hearing there? >> we were listening to a cockpit area microphone, a
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c.a.m., which is very, very noisy environment, from the air, the air conditioning, the air flow, engine sounds and so on. most pilots nowadays use noise canceling head phones just to cut that out. >> but the microphone on that recorder wouldn't have that same technology. it's grabbing everything. >> that's right. there are many times in the cockpit where you want to know what happened engine wise and alerts and so on, in addition to people talking. so this was an example of an alert that sounded in a cockpit, but it was very low and we wanted to enhance it. >> for the sake of our viewers play it right up next to each other. we'll play first the raw sound, then the enhanced sound. start with the raw sound here.
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you think, now that i listen again, behind the raw sound you can hear a high pitched clinking noise almost. >> when you become familiar with what you're listening for and the time then you begin to dig it out of the noise. this the type of thing we deal with in aircraft situations as well as undercover recordings and gunshots and so on. >> i want to give you a chance to comment, mike. i also want to bring in mary schiavo. explain to our viewers, so much focus now is on finding those recorder, but that's the beginning of a process, right? because then you have to listen. you've been involved in many investigations before. you have to be involved in listening to that data to glean anything from that. how much of a challenge is that in your experience? >> in my experience, it's not just listening, flight data recorders are so good and they have so many parameters that the
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cockpit voice recorder, things that are not picked up or recorded on the flight data recorder, the pilot/plane interface. did you hear the sound of a cockpit door open? was there any sound of, for example, a seat failing or things that wouldn't be picked up on the flight data recorder? because the flight data recorder is so good, it will get anything about the pressure, the gauges. if you have an accident and you have a warning light on, we look for stretched filament. but that cockpit voice recorder can only get things that aren't heard or recorded elsewhere. >> so underwater could these tapes be damaged over time? >> no, they actually are built, that is the cockpit voice recorder and cockpit data recorder as well to reside in salt water from long time -- in fact, when they're retrieved,
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they're put into salt water. >> right, when they put it out so it's in its natural habitat, in a way. >> the memory stays intact. you had a comment before, michael talking about reaction as they're trying to glen these recordings. >> going back to yesterday, the where, the what and the why, the key will be some form of debris that allows us to connect the location with the fact that it was mh-370's resting place. it was two years until the robots on the bottom managed to find the fdr and the cvr. >> flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder. >> absolutely, yeah. like putting this jigsaw together. there's some really key phases of flight where you can really hone in on what the noises are. for example, reverse thrusters,
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when you land on the runway, you get the reverse thrusters kick in and they have deceleration or paul and his experts can tune in for that phase of flight. when you get airborne, we lear the undercarriage travel and the wheel travel, you get that specific noise. no one raises eyebrows to that because you hear the noises. there are various phase z of flight that these guys can tune into and put the jigsaw puzzle together. >> just from that sound. >> then anything that sounds a little bit unusual, that's what they'll hone in on. >> mike williamson, i'd like to bring you in in terms of you being an expert. they've refined the search area to ach smaller area several hundred square miles, much smaller than before but still large. it's been eight days now. they haven't heard anything yet. we're waiting for the update from today. how worrisome is that to you? >> i don't think we can make any conclusions until the bluefin
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has completed its search of that primary area. and using one auv, it takes a little bit longer. if they had two systems, they could be operating in tandem while one is coming up and downloading and charging, the other could be operating. the operation does take a little time and they are making good progress. >> this is certainly a search that's required patience from the beginning. thanks very much to the panel. i know we'll have another opportunity. thanks to all of you for joining us. coming up in this hour, investigators in south korea release frantic radio traffic between the crew of the sinking ferry and officials back on shore. we'll play that for you, plus the latest on that information right after this break.
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rescue crews off the coast of south korea have found no survivor, only bodies since a loaded ferry tipped over and sank five days ago. this is where the ship went down, in water just about 100 feet deep. divers finally managed to get inside the vessel and brought the bodies of more than a dozen people to the surface today raising the confirmed death toll to 59. grieving family members are gathered on the shore nearby. there's nothing they can do but wait for news. the fate of 243 other people still on board still missing is not known today, but realistic hope is fading. then there's the captain. this man here, he was in charge of the ferry and all those lives
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on board. he's under arrest, charged with abandoning his ship, among other things. today we heard recordings of ship controllers talking to him to get those passengers off the ship. survivors say they were instead told to stay put while the ferry tipped over. we're joined by jim staples, a veteran merchant marine, an expert on giant pilot ships around the world. looking back he's piloted ships in this very area. captain, just as you look at the circumstances here and now that we've heard those early communications where when the ship's captain first made that distress call to shore, they told him to make an abandon ship order and then it was more than two hours later that the ship completely sank. what decrgree of failure is thi for a captain of a ship with passengers on board? >> 100% failure. he should have evacuated that vessel immediately. as soon as he knew that that ship was in trouble, he should have ordered people to their
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muster stations and deployed the life rafts. and by that, we would have seen a lot more people that probably would have survived the incident. his dern was that the water was cold and there was a great current there. and that's true. that's a concern he should have been thinking about, but the main concern was to get people off the vessel because she was foundering very quickly. he was in serious trouble and he needed to evacuate that ship and he just didn't do it. >> is there an international law that governs what captains of ships are required to do? you have the old saw, the captain should go down with the ship, but that's not actually law. but in terms of the captain's responsibility for getting the passengers off ship before he himself abandons ship, what is the seaman's law, what were you taught as a captain? what does international law hold for captains like this? >> first of all, it's a law of humanity. it's your responsibility as the master to make sure all your crew and all your passengers are safe. that's your responsibility. that's what you're being paid to
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do. that's what you supposedly have been trained to do, and you should be able to respond to an emergency situation at any time no matter whether it's a fire or collision or grounding, you should be able to respond to that emergency and keep your crew and your passengers safe. we see again -- >> oh, sorry, we're just losing the signal there for captain jim styles. he was just completing a thought about it being the captain's responsibility if not to go down with the ship but responsible for getting his passengers off the ship in the event an emergency like this. and that, of course, is something that he failed to do in this case and he's now under charge in south korea. moving to another story here at home, it has been a little more than a year since the boston marathon bombing. this year's race is tomorrow. with bigger crowds than ever before and also more security. we're going to take you live to boston with brooke baldwin right after this break. hey. i'm ted and this is rudy.
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it is a big day tomorrow in boston. tomorrow is the boston marathon. and it is marking one year since bombs at the race killed three people and wounded 264 others. among the youngest victims was 8-year-old martin richard. that's his picture there. brooke baldwin talked to two boys who were just inches from him when those bombs went off and lived to tell the tale. i know you've been there since the beginning and in touch with
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survivors since the beginning. this must be one of the most powerful survivor stories you've come across, though. >> it's pretty incredible. when you think of all the pictures we saw of really those before and after those two explosions a year ago at the finish line on boylston street. the pictures where the fbi went through frame by frame to try to figure out who could possibly be capable of doing something so horrendous, there's one photo that many people will recognize here. we actually have the story behind the photo because you will see, as we just showed, that the youngest victim 8-year-old martin richard and his sister janie who survived the blast minus a leg and it was these two young men who were just next to them. their family friends. and they talk about what it was like to just be so close. take a look. these two smiling children, martin and jane richard, the face of that cruel day in boston. a few feet away, the alleged
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bombers are about to strike. >> looking over at the kids. they're screaming and yelling for their parents to keep running. they were cheering them on. >> martin just 8 years old, was killed. his sister janie, then 7, lost her leg. the moments before a bomb tore into their lives captured in this haunting photo, but what happened to those other boys standing inches away? >> to see where they were next to me and to find out, it's devastating. >> aaron hern is the boy to jane's right, next to him is david. they were hit by a concussive blast. >> it felt like it was right on top of us. he was in this cloud. i was just standing right over there. >> in the scramble aaron and david were pulled apart.
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>> it was five feet over this way and there was this lady trying to get him to stay up. and once in a while when i have visions, that's the thing in my visions that i see, a woman trying to get the kid up. >> i did not see what happened to him. i guess -- and i don't want to say i forgot. but there wasn't really any thoughts in my head at that moment. >> even with his injuries, aaron remembers seeing martin. >> i saw a boy over there in the concrete. and i looked at my legs and from my knees down it was just solid red of blood. >> at the hospital they felt relief that they had survived. a room away the richard family grieved. >> i always wanted to trade places with them because i didn't think it was fair, but i do remember how lucky i am. >> this was taken one week after your injury. >> david's ears are slowly healing. though ear specialists had
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worried his hearing lost might become the worst of his injuries. >> so there it is. a completely healed eardrum. >> aaron's leg injuries are also on the mend. >> i have my scars still. they're probably going to be there forever. but i don't have any problems. once in a while i have some pains. >> at the memorial the boys found inspiration in seeing janie richard. >> it was very inspiring to see her. i've always had them in my head. >> tough to imagine just 13 years of age. i can tell you that aaron's parents will be running the marathon, jim, first thing in the morning. aaron will not be along the finish line. he'll be in a more protected area with a number of the other survivors. he'll be watching the race from afar. i talked to a budge of people who will be running. they said, brooke, when everyone is watching us go through the finish line, we're all going to be wearing sunglasses.
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and it's not going to be because of the sun. it will be an incredibly emotional day for a lot of people, just tearing streaming down their faces. >> that story is riveting to watch. i'm thinking of my own boys when i watch it. i have to wonder, we talk a little bit about the security there. i mean, how are officials keeping everyone safe this year while also keeping that kind of boston strong upbeat mood going? >> well, expect a lot of plainclothes officers, for one. we know that there will be doubled police presence from years past. some officers who said to me that they're not messing around this year at all. there's a zero bag policy along the race route. no backpacks, no rucksacks that also spills into the crowd. it may not be the biggest race. the second biggest race in boston's history, but the biggest as far as spectators. a million people. they'll be tough on people. if you want to head out to the race route, no bags. they're asking you to leave your
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handbags at home. no liquids bigger than one liter. no bulky clothes, nothing covering your face ps. police will be out. no taking any chances this year. >> rightly so. >> i'm going to be watching. don't miss cnn's coverage of the race tomorrow. she's been there since the beginning of this story and the start of that race is bright and early tomorrow morning. so happy easter to you, brooke, and we look forward to seeing you. >> same to you. also on this easter sunday from the pope to the royal couple and prince george, we're going to show you how people are celebrating easter around the world. but first, from the pope to the royal couple, we're going to show you these pictures from all over and that's the baby there. the royal baby, the heir to the throne. co: sometimes you don't know you need a hotel room
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as christians celebrate the holy feast of easter, praying for some of the world's worst conflicts. ♪ at the vatican in rome, thousands packed into st. peter's square. pope francis prayed for an end to conflicts in iraq, israel, nigeria, venezuela and ukraine in his easter message. queen elizabeth celebrated easter mass at windsor castle approximately and the duke and duchess of cambridge continue their tour of australia. little prince george made an appearance with his parents at the sydney zoo meeting a little marsupial billby that was named
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after him. his excitement didn't last too long. looks like my little boys there. you're in the cnn newsroom. i'm jim sciutto in for don lemon. thank you for joining us. today we hear the voices of people who were suddenly in the middle of a major emergency at sea. south korea five days ago that loaded ferry began sinking with 476 people on board, most teenagers. now we know what the crew was saying at the time to did controllers on shore. have a listen.
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>> the panic, the stress so clear in those voices. you remember the ferry capsized on wednesday. as of today only 59 people are confirmed dead, their bodies brought to shore by divers. 243 in all remain unaccounted for. each time searchers bring the body of one of those ferry victims on shore, the families there must go to identify their loved ones. with many of the dead high school students it is taking the toll on even veteran emergency workers. kyung lah has been there for one of the hardest parts of this story. i wonder if you can paint the scene for us, how difficult it is as each of those bodies is
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brought ashore. >> this is a very small port. you can hear what's happening very close by. and it's important to stress that every single time a body comes ashore and you hear a parent identifying their child, everyone here hears that. and it's something that is happening again and again, a grim process that's expected to continu continue. the first police boat returns from the search site. parents waiting, bracing. they return one by one in identical plain white bags. behind the screen initial inspection. a blanket to cover. and a short march back to land. parents rush to the white tents
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to identify their children. "you must have said, daddy save me" weeps this father. no one is immune to the sound of losing a child. as the families leave the tents, so, too, do the stretchers emptied, returning to the gurneys that await the next boat. another group of someone's children. another march back to the tents. 13 return in this group, but more than 200 are still missing. gurneys on the left side of the dock. divers board ships to the right to continue the search. to bring the rest home.
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back here live in jindo, you're looking at a few of the parents praying behind a buddhist monk that is praying for the souls of the lost. this is a port that at one time had dozens upon dozens of parents staring out at sea holding on to hope that their children would be returning alive. what we're seeing now are these solemn prayers instead. jim. >> kyung, it's a parents' nightmare. thanks very much for covering that extremely difficult story for us in south korea. this is a heart rending situation for everyone involved. and the investigators are not immune to the pain. someone who knows all too well what they're dealing with is cnn aviation analyst mary schiavo, she's inspector general for the u.s. transportation department. we've been hearing about you for weeks now in the malaysian airlines flight, for the past month or so, but let's also speak for a moment about this tragedy. how do you as an investigator
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cope with your emotions, you and your team when you're surrounded by parents, loved ones, family members who just want their loved ones back. that's got to be a real challenge. >> it's unbelievably difficult. and for example that tape that we just watched, that is the absolute worst. because as a professional, you can focus on the job, you can focus on the mission, you can focus on the technical aspects. that's what statisticses bear out. they show that professionals, for example, in the post 9/11 world, police officers fared better than volunteers. volunteers were three times more likely to have severe psychological effects. because police officers know their job and can focus on it and have trained over the years to deal with it. but when you train with family members you realize they don't have a frame of reference. they have to deal with it often alone. as investigators, you have your fellow investigators and your fellow lawyers and your fellow police and your fellow other people to deal with, but they
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have to deal with it alone. so the way you do it as a professional is focus on the job you have to do and know if you do it well, that's the best thing you can do for them is do your job well. >> one thing that strucks me aa parallel, you have the family members with their frustration with the government and the ferry operator as much as there's been anger from the victims of flight 370 with the airline, malaysia airlines. i imagine that's something you've experienced before as well. you know, the families want answers. they may not get those answers right away. and they want someone to direct their anger and frustration against. of course, in this case with the ferry, they have every right to direct their anger at the captain of the ship and so on. that must be a whole other challenge dealing with that, and getting the information they want quickly enough. >> yes, and that's one thing the government seemed not to realize but over time, if you've been working in the field for a long
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time, you realize two really important things about families and families who have lost loved ones. one, they are just as intelligent as everyone else and within a very short time become highly educated on the facts of the circumstance. when you speak to them, never, ever speak down. give them the straight facts. because they've researched more about this accident than anyone else in the world. and two, they are grieving, but they're not mentally ill. so that's another reason you have to give them the straight facts and the straight truth because giving them something, making up a story to make them feel better, they can see right through it. as soon as you realize those two facts, they know everything about the accident you know and more and they're perfectly able to take on the facts, then you can deal with them in a straightforward professional manner. that's the best route. that would be the one mistake that governments make. telling the truth every time. >> we've seen that mistake repeated about w the malaysian airlines flight. the frustration, the changing
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stories. it would seem like a simple lesson. mary schiavo, with too much experience, arguably with accidents like this. staying overseas for a moment, ukrainians home the easter holiday might bring a break from the violence. instead there was more bloodshed and dread that moscow could be scheming to take a bigger bite out of ukraine. we'll have more on that right after this. [ male announcer ] the wright brothers started in a garage. mattel started in a garage. disney started in a garage. amazon started in a garage. ♪ the ramones started in a garage. my point? some of the most innovative things in the world come out of american garages. introducing the lighter, faster cadillac cts.
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to ukraine where what was hoped to be a quiet easter sunday has been instead marked by more deadly violence. a gun fight on a country road left several people dead. pro-russian groups say one of their road blocks came under attack. the government in kiev say two groups fought over the checkpoint and the incident is still under investigation. but russia immediately seized on the clash as proof that ukraine cannot keep the peace. two burned-out cars were still
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at the scene this afternoon riddled with bullet. today's shooting the second deadly attack in the last four days. joining me is leon aaron, director of russian studies at the american enterprise institute. also author of "roads to the temple." also joining me is michael kay of the british military. he has a background of looking at ukraine politics and post-soviet union politics. leon, if i can start with you, we've had disappointing developments in the last 24 to 48 hours. you have a deadly clash between what appears pro-russian forces and pro-kiev forces. and you have no compliance with this agreement worked out between the u.s. and russia, ukraine and others in geneva on thursday for those pro-russian militants to vacate buildings they occupy. doesn't look good for that
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agreement. tell us your view on how a diplomatic resolution can be worked out to the violence on the ground there now. >> well, you know, diplomacy is usually the end result, it sort of validates the facts on the ground. and it happens only when both sides or more than two sides feel that they need to -- they're forced to negotiate because negotiations is a compromise, you lose something as well as gain something. i don't see at this point much incentive for russia to negotiate. the time is on its side. we already have seen part of this in the bloodshed and violence. and the reason for that is because putin confronted ukraine with a very unpalatable -- the government of ukraine and quay everybody with a very unpalatable moral choice. either you cede essentially the sovereignty of the country to groups led by professional russian forces and it's clear from the way they behave, the
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way they fall in and out, the way they are, the way they lanl their arms, the way they use stun grenades and gas masks, that they are -- the core of it is the professional highly trained russian forces. either you cede the sovereignty of those towns and by now it's about 10,000 ukraine, to those forces or you continue front them and try to dislodge them and that will inevitably lead to bloodshed. at the very least this bloodshed gives russia obviously vladimir putin who is the one who makes decisions there, a cover to claim that ukraine is sliding towards the civil war. and then as he likes to use western precedence and western policies as he did with the crimea, he used the u.s. independence of kosovo. he said the country was sliding towards the civil war and you
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wanted to protect the civilians. we now need to interfere with ukraine because the civilians, especially the ethnic russian civilians are in danger of the civil war there. >> that's an argument that russia has used in crimea as an excuse to send forces in there. michael, i wonder if i can ask you because there's been a debate in the u.s. about what the west should do, how aggressively should they respond. there are critics, a great "new york times" story today that there are critics within the administration, that the obama administration hasn't moved quickly enough to raise the cost for sanction with the broader economic sanctions. they've been so limited so far. do you think that the u.s. in the west and the eu have responded severely enough to russia's actions? >> if your point is, jim, should we be looking at military solutions -- >> not military, no, but raising the cost, economic sanctions. >> absolutely. there isn't a military solution
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to this yet. we're not at that point. military is the blunt point of policy. we're not there yet. there's an escalating concern from the west that there's a template forming of the way crimea was grabbed through the use of paramilitaries and no sort of real, real incursion through russian troops into crimea. it used this underhand means. >> a stealth invasion. >> a stealth invasion. they're two very different. we have to separate them. i understand why putin grabbed crimea, sevastopol. >> the location of their black sea fleet. >> that is strategic. you can understand why putin did that in the absence of governments, real governments within ukraine. if the ukraine government ends up we being western facing, there is no way that putin would ever make a grab on crimea back. he's got that now. ukraine is different. you have got to understand with ukraine -- >> you're talking about eastern
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ukraine as opposed to crimea. >> it has $19 billion of debt forming in 2016. so there's this be conundrum that the west has to be careful about. the whole reason this came out was because the west was offering a bailout. >> and offering closer ties to ukraine and the european union. >> but what's involved is austerity. there could be this see-sawing of power between the west and russia depending on short-term versus long-term outcomes. it would be great for ukraine to receive this money but -- >> the price of that economic bailout. >> by the ukraine, and people which might make them look to the east again. >> a backlash. >> leon, i wonder if i can ask you, there is an argument that, in effect, the eu and the u.s. pushed too far into what was russian -- if not russian territory but the russian sphere of influence and therefore they sparked this reaction.
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any merit to that point of view? >> well, i mean, any power that aspires to intimidate its neighbors into following its policy, and clearly putin seized russia as a hegemonic power. in other words, it has to have veto power even on domestic policy. from his point of view, yes, ukraine defied that law that he established. now, from the point of view of diplomacy as understood by the world outside russia, clear ly, clearly we do not recognize his sphere of influence, russia's power over foreign policy of soviet nation, therefore it does not hold in any sense of international law as we see it.
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so clearly there's a disjoint here. and i think we see the results on the ground. we do not accept -- i'm talking about the eu, i'm talking about the west, i'm talking the united states. we do not accept russia's right to dictate where and how and which alliances and which organizations post soviet republics and independent countries should seek. putin feels that it's otherwise. therefore we're into this conflict. >> also the u.s. and the west don't accept the ability to violate international borders. that's been a consistent statement from the u.s. and others. thank you very much. also overseas the sun is up over the southern indian ocean. and the day dawned full of hope for the teams searching for flight 370. we'll go live to perth, australia, for the latest on that hunt. throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one.
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that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due.
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and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. go to checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. and now to the hunt for malaysia airlines flight 370. the sun is up in perth, australia, where planes are en route to the search area. and in the water the bluefin 21 is on another mission scanning the ocean floor for an eighth day for any sign of the plane's debris. malaysia's transport minister admits that with every passing day, the search is becoming more and more difficult. and sure to complicate matters, a cyclone currently circulating
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just northwest of the search area. michael holmes still live at the search base in perth, australia. michael, what's the latest on the search? this is the time of day when you start to hear back from what the bluefin 21 heard and i guess the planes start going up in the air as well. >> yeah, exactly. both of those things. the planes and the ships continue their search. we normally hear from search headquarters around now or in the next couple of hours about how the latest mission went. of course, they're still focusing on that six-mile radius around where one of those acoustic sounds was heard back on april 8th. and with the mission that's carried out so far by the bluefin they've carried out half of that. they still feel this is their best shot at finding the plane. the eighth mission should be over by now if not very soon. we're waiting to see if it was more successful in the previous seven dives which, of course, turned up nothing. how long the plane and sea
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search for surface debris will go on, we don't know. it was angus houston last week who said it would be a matter of days that he thought that would be wound down. but it does continue at this moment. you mentioned that cyclone northwest of the search area. it's not on track to actually hit the search area directly, but it could complicate things because the wave height and winds are making a pickup in the next few days. malaysian acting transport minister, jim, yesterday saying that prayers would be needed this week and indeed it's looking like that, jim. >> a lot of prayers needed just for progress. we know the families are desperate for any news. michael holmes in perth, australia, the headquarters of the search. boston strong has never been tested like it will be tomorrow. the city is passing an anxious night ahead of the first marathon since that bloody bombing of one year ago. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert.
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this just in, the south korea coast guard reports that three more bodies have been recovered. that brings the death toll now to 62. those bodies were all female. now back here in the u.s., cardinal sean o'malley offered a blessing for runners in the boston marathon at the end of easter sunday mass today. though an annual part of the race buildup but the blessing has extra meaning this year. the city is preparing for the first marathon since the bombings killed three and wounded others last year. poppy harlow is in boston. poppy, i know you've been in touch with one of the bombing survivors throughout those difficult 12 months since the attack. you' you've been following for some time. is she running again this year?
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>> she is. it will be a sight to see. her name is heather abbott. i spent time with her before she headed over to the red sox game. you have to see her to believe what she's gone through. that's us today her walking on her prosthetics. she has four prosthetic legs, most are very human looking legs, very cosmetic looking legs which she believes everyone who goes through an amputation should have because she says that's helped her to feel like herself again. we have video to show you. this woman is incredible. not only can she walk and run, she can walk on four-inch stiletto heels, believe it or not, a year after losing part of her left leg in those bombings. she ran over the weekend in a tribute race. and she's going to join a woman named erin who found her laying on the ground in front of the forum restaurant last year after the bombing and who helped save her. erin is running the marathon, heather will join her for the last half mile tomorrow. just a huge accomplishment in such little time.
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i asked her if her strength ever surprises her. and what she told me is i acc t accepted pretty early on what happened to me but i knew i wanted my life back and i knew the work i had to put in to achieve that. and she has clearly put it in. we talked about what marathon monday, patriots day in boston will mean for her. here's what she told me. >> this year for me it's like a new starting point. it's a day where i'm going to do the things i was supposed to do last year and didn't get to. it's sort of a celebration, i think, for me of all that i've been able to accomplish this year. and a time to start new memories. >> absolutely new memories celebrating all that she's accomplished. when the bombs went off, she was walking into the forum restaurant. tomorrow she's going to make that walk in the door and celebrate with all of her
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friends, family, so many people cheering on the runners tomorrow. and one thing that stood out to me about her is not only has she come so far, she's helping other amputees, talking and coaching them. she got certified to do that. that's helping her heal. >> incredible watching those pictures, seeing her walking there. wouldn't know. i've seen a lot of veterans, afghan and iraq war veterans walking on prosthetics today. with that technology just incredible how they can recover physically. but how on the mental, the psychological side as you dealt with heather and others there, how do they maintain their strength? something was taken away from them a year ago. it requires a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get over that. >> absolutely. it's a strength that i don't think i have. and it's a strength that amazes me every time i see her and the other survivors. you know, there's two things. first of all, i talked to her today about the fact that there have to be the moments when the spotlights from the media aren't
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shining or you're not busy with work or friends or family. and how are those moments. she said those moments are hard and they can be very lonely. she has kept herself very busy, which helps. she is helping others, which i mention. that's very cathartic for her. but it's those moments when you realize that you have to cope with this for the rest of your life that are very difficult for her. but she's getting through them. i did talk about whether or not she thinks about the alleged bombers. is that coming to her mind? she says it doesn't. because every moment i spend thinking about them i take away from my moment and my life. she hasn't decided if she'll go to the trial in november. it's about her and her strength. we'll be at the forum restaurant and watch her across the finish line and have a complete story on heather abbott on "the situation room" tomorrow night. >> a powerful story, poppy harlow part of cnn's coverage there.
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look forward to seeing your pieces. tomorrow we'll return to boss on the to check on the lives of people made famous when photographers snapped their pictures a year ago on the day on that attack on the marathon. here's how those people have put their lives back together. that's back to boston, moments of impact, tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern. rubin carter went from fighter to convict to martyr. today those who knew him best remember the complicated man known by his nickname, hurricane. it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call, or donation adds up to something big. alzheimer's association. the brains behind saving yours.
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i live in a luxury penthouse overlooking central park. when the guests arrive, they're greeted by my butler, larry. my helipad is being re-surfaced so tonight we travel by more humble means. at my country club, we play parlor games with members of the royal family. yes i am rich. that's why i drink the champagne of beers. why relocating manufacturingpany to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york. see if your business qualifies at
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hurricane is the professional name that i acquired later on this life. >> rubin "hurricane" carter. >> one thing i could do and the only thing was box. >> the hurricane earned denzel washington an academy award nomination for his portrayal of the boktser rubin carter. today carter died of complications from prostate cancer. he was 76 years old. carter's story simply astonishing. middleweight boxer served 19 years in prison after being wrongly convicted of a triple murder in 1966. his case inspired the 1975 bob dylan song "hurricane." ♪ the shots rang out in a bar room night ♪ ♪ sees him in a pool of blood
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♪ my god they've killed them all ♪ >> want to bring in the co-author of rubin carter's autobiography, "eye of the hurricane, my path from darkness to freedom." great title there, from the horrible darkness of being wrongly convicted. took 19 years of his life. how did those years in prison and the wrongful conviction, how did it change him? >> well, he transformed from a boxer to somebody who identified with someone like, say, sonny liston. they are people who tried to kind of flaunt the white establishment or flaut it. and he was a kind of bad guy with a chip on his shoulder. he realized that, although he didn't kill anyone, what happened to him was in some ways the result of the behavior that
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he had shown through all those years. so he decided that he needed to transform when he was in prison. he had to become a better sort of person. >> did he always have hope that he would get out even while he was in there in the darkest moments? >> i think any prisoner in that situation has moments of hope and then they have moments of despair. and he was no exception to that. >> now, he became a champion for others who were wrongly convicted after he left prison. how important was that cause to him? >> i would say it was the most consuming passion of his life. and it's -- i don't think a hyperbole or an overestimation to say that he is the best known advocate for the wrongly convicted in the world, all around the world they know him, japan, australia, you name it, england. and so they picked up that
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passion that he had. he's going to be a huge loss, a void really. >> the film is the way many people knew his story or learned of his story. did he think it was a fair portrayal of his story? >> he liked it very much, but he knew that it stretched the truth in some areas. he had to -- or the filmmakers had to pay off joey giardelle because that was an unfair characterization of the fight which we realized even in watching the video of it that giardello won. but by and large, the film, especially the imprisonment, the film even what's softer than the difficulties he had inside that prison, but it's true.
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>> ken klonsky, author of the auto biographer of hurricane, thank you very much for joining us. the bluefin 21 could find flight 370 deep under water but there are no guarantees. lead we'll look at the limits of the drone and whether they could cost search teams their chance of finding the missing plane. a. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.
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right now the bluefin underwater drone is scouring the ocean floor for any sign of malaysia flight 370. the bluefin is on its eighth mission now. it's covered at least half of the current search zone. so far the bluefin has not found a shred of evidence linked to flight 370. with me is rhonda flores. is this the right tool for the job in. >> that's one of the big questions. we set out to find out why. we talked to the source. when these searchers asked the u.s. government for an auv, then the u.s. government looks at its fleet of auvs and figures out where is our deep sea auv and that's the bluefin 21. but there are other auvs that can dive much deeper. take a look. this world war ii era plane
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crashed off the coast of massachusetts in 1947. for more than 50 years it remained lost on the bottom of the ocean. over a decade ago an auv, an autonomous underwater vehicle, discovered the missing plane. >> coming up. >> having the right tool is always the best case that you're looking for. >> it makes the remis family of auvs, this is the ream is 600. a larger, the remis 6000 found the france flight. >> at the end of the day we knew what we were doing was to help people answer questions about what happened to that flight. >> so it's the bluefin 21 which is currently being used in the search for malaysia flight 370 can't find the missing jet, searchers could call upon the
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remis 6000, it can navigate in waters almost 5,000 feet deeper than the bluefin 21. >> basically it can be operated in most of the world's oceans. >> when searchers asked the u.s. government for an auv, the navy says the bluefin 21 was the only deep water vehicle it had available. after the remis auvs, use side scan sonar to map the ocean floor, they usually come back with what's called low frequency images. these are pictures it took of the submerged plane in massachusetts. >> and this shows up as different from the surrounding area indicating that there's something on the bottom for us to go look at. >> but take a look at these images taken at a higher frequency. >> you can clearly see the body of the plane, the two wings. >> here's what it looked like in its glory days. these auvs also have still
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camera and video capabilities. giving investigators perspective and a better picture of the bottom of the ocean. >> so this is great because you're giving us some pictures now of what these scanners actually see on the bottom of the ocean. tell us what this is. >> this is what investigators are looking at on that first scan, for example, that the bluefin goes out because they're trying to cover as much area as possible they come back with low resolution pictures. and this is a great example. so you see that something, obviously perks up, but you don't know what that is. but to the trained eye they know there's something there and everything else around it seems more like -- >> what about that stands out to them? i look at that and i think that can be a rock, seaweed. >> what stands out to them here in this particular case is that right angle that you see and the shadow because when you see shadows, that means that there's something there. the sonar can't get through
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whatever is blocking it. >> i see. >> so yes, the shadow, the you are able to see that you send back that device again to get a high resolution picture and then you can see -- >> this is obvious. you were explaining to me, this is helpful to me, so the low res can see a bigger area that at least allows them to see some clues they want to take a closer look at. >> correct. they are looking for anything that's not natural to the ocean floor. because these people are trained to be looking for these things, they look for right angles. they say mother nature has curves, she has curves, she does not make right angles. if you see anything that has a right angle, that's something they would definitely want to check again. >> right. fascinating to see that. these are exactly the kind of pictures that searchers are poring over now, as that bluefin comes up after its eighth mission. thank you so much, rosa. so what if the bluefin finds nothing? what are your options?
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we will talk ahead after this about the worst case scenario in the search for flight 370. we will have our expert panel back. stay with us. salesperson #1: the real deal is the passat tdi clean diesel gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. salesperson #2: actually, we're throwing in a $1,000 fuel reward card. we've never done that. that's why there's never been a better time to buy a passat tdi clean diesel. husband: so it's like two deals in one? salesperson #2: exactly. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a passat tdi, that gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models.
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this just in to cnn. for the second time in just the past few minutes, we have another update on the death toll from the south korean ferry accident. the south korean coast guard confirming now that two more bodies have been recovered from that ship, both are female. just a few minutes ago, we learned that three more bodies, also all female, had been recovered. that brings the death toll now to 64 with 238 people still missing and realistic hope of survivors being found, fading as time goes on. now, in the other search for malaysia airlines flight 370, bluefin's underwater scan should be all wrapped up this week, but then what? leaders from malaysia and
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australia say if the mission fails, the entire search operation may need to stop, regroup and come up with fresh ideas. families want answers on this, the 45th day since the plane disappeared, carrying those 239 people on board. we will bring in our panel again to discuss. we have with me in new york aviation analyst michael kay, former pilot with the british royal air force and sylvia earl, oceanographer and explorer in residence at the national geographic society. sylvia, with your experience in underwater exploration, i want to ask you first, if bluefin comes up empty in this search of this refined search area, they have been looking at for about a week now, what are the best options for the next step? >> well, re-evaluating the whole search area does seem like it would be the logical next thing to do. the reason that this place was chosen and it's such a tight area is that this was where the
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best sound was located, the ping that was the most promising. now, if the bluefin comes up with nothing after continued observations, at least it will have eliminated this part of the indian ocean as a place where the plane is likely to be. but then that means let's go back and look at the evidence that we had in the first place and see if there's a wider area that might make sense to explore. >> they have to go back and look at that data again. michael, the other phase of the search, we talk about subsurface and surface, how would you rethink the air search, if you spend another few days and don't see any floating debris? >> great question. i think we really do need to take our hats off and just really realize how the search tempo has been really impressive from the australian air crews. you have the u.s. navy, you have the australian air crews and the
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flights have been relentless, four missions a day. we know how far they travel to get out there. what you will see is an onset of fatigue, human factors, the aircraft will be stretched to their limits. as the servicing gets longer and longer because the hours the aircraft have flown, you have to regroup and look at what state the aircraft are in and what state the air crew are in. because there's only a limited number of resources and they are operating at surge tempos so there has to be a natural break. i agree with the defense minister and with the australian prime minister, this would be a natural and pragmatic thing to do. >> it's a sobering prospect because obviously there is impatience from the families involved and all these countries that have allocated so many resources, assuming this happens, to have had all these days and not find anything. sylvia, looking at this, is there something that investigators as they have been scanning and searching, is there something they have learned along the way about how to look for something?
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really, a search like this in these waters with so little information is unprecedented. >> well, it's complicated because you don't really know where the plane went down. that was a key factor in finding the air france wreckage, even though they knew, it took two years even though they knew precisely where the aircraft had gone down, took that long to begin to actually recover parts of the plane. so i think it highlights how little we know of the ocean and how difficult it is to operate there. this is one of the least known parts of the planet. a lot of the rest of the ocean is little known as well, and maps of the southern ocean where this tragedy took place, there is so little in terms of what's the bottom like and equipment does exist, but not -- it's not
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like a great number of options are available to be able to do what is required to find where the aircraft is, and then to actually recover it. >> point has been made many times. we know more about the surface of the moon than we do about bottom of the ocean. very quickly because we are running out of time, there's another part of the investigation that hasn't netted much, the investigation of the crew and passengers. is there a reboot, do you think, necessary there? >> you are absolutely right. this is a very small component that we don't know or have any conclusions to. there is also the operations, also the medical aspects. there are many inconclusive facts and evidence surrounding the whole mystery. again, let's go back to the where, what and why and work out the where first. let's concentrate on that. that's what all the intellectual horsepower needs to be going into. >> thanks very much to both of you. please stay with cnn and for the latest news. next is anthony bourdain "parts
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unknown," punjab followed at 9:00 eastern by the premiere of "las vegas." at 10:00 eastern, "inside man" and at 11:00, brianna keilar. good night. [ speaking in a foreign language ] ♪ ♪