tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN September 10, 2014 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
a year ago he tried to take military action in syria and parliament blocked it. he doesn't want to make the same mistake again. so the phrase you keep hearing is there won't be a knee-jerk reaction to isis although air strikes do remain an option. >> wolf blitzer, thank you so much. hi, everyone. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for staying with me on cnn. we begin with this. we are now one day out before september 11th. we have the president of the united states, president barack obama, preparing to tell the nation and really the whole world how he plans to hunt down a group of terrorists considered more extreme than al qaeda. i'm talking of course about isis. these militants who are carving this bloody path through the middle east and in a speech you can see here on cnn live at 9:00 eastern tonight, the president will be speaking. he'll be outlining his plan outlining a strategy he has
already shared with congressional leaders and is right now fine tuning with his national security team. our sources tell us it will be a mix of politics, diplomacy and precise military attacks and just a reminder here, context, this time last year, the administration was stalling on a plan of action inside of syria to stop the brutality committed by bashar al assad. isis changed the calculus here and we expect to hear the words u.s. air strikes in syria and prospect of arming and training so-called moderate syrian rebels. u.s. secretary of state john mccain -- john kerry is laying the groundwork of this plan. >> when the world hears from president obama this evening, he will lay out with great sp
specificity, discussing how to best build on the work that's already been done and to assemble the broadest possible coalition for this fight. >> joining me now, dana bash, our chief congressional correspondent. you're talking to your sources. what are at the telling you? what are they hearing as far as specifics for the president's plan? >> reporter: what i'm hearing from sources here on capitol hill especially those familiar with the meeting that the president had with congressional leaders yesterday is that we are likely to see a president obama that we haven't seen much of before. he's going to be at least what the white house is preparing congressional leaders for very robust. very aggressive. very forward leaning in what exactly he believes that the u.s. has to do to deal with the very, very serious threat of isis and that is to be more
aggressive, talking as you said about air strikes which are going on in a minimal way now but to broaden that. so i think it is going to be not the kind of commander in chief that you have heard republicans talk about as somebody who is not comfortable as commander in chief according to what the white house is preparing for, he's going to sound a lot more like a robust commander in chief and give the kind of strategy that people on both sides of the aisle here and across the country have been asking for particularly after the public outcry around the beheadings of u.s. citizens. >> all right. dana bash, thank you so much. robust, aggressive, thank you from washington for me. let's talk to a member of congress. republican congressman mike turner joins me now from capitol hill. he's a senior member of the house armed services committee. congressman, welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> so we know a briefing just wrapped up between administration officials, specific members of congress. hours ahead of the president's
big speech tonight. have you heard anything coming out of that meeting, sir? >> nothing yet. i think certainly everyone is looking for the president tonight to make the case that isis is a direct threat to the united states. that he intends to use military force and resolve to destroy isis. that he's going to look to a broader coalition. united states not just going alone. people expect it will be military action both in iraq and in syria. >> we are hearing about this blank check that the president wants from congress to fight isis. what are you hearing, congressman turner, about that? what specifically are you hearing as far as how that will be distributed financially to the fight overseas? >> you know, i think overall you heard from congress great frustration that the president has not had a plan. because of that any congressional action has been premature to even discuss
speculati speculatively. what will the congress do if president does x or y. tonight he'll lay it out. from that congress will take action. i hope he goes beyond the isis issue to the root cause we have here. if you look to chapter 12 of the 9/11 commission report, this isn't just an al qaeda or osama bin laden threat to the united states, it's islamic extremism and terrorism and the president in his speech laying out his strategy for iraq said even in addition to pulling the troops out of iraq, he was going to commit to holding islamic extremism at bay and supporting territorial in iraq. it's not just the issue of how to attack and hold isis back. >> what about the finances? you hear from someone like senator carl levin saying i believe the word is flexibility. he's okay with a blank check because the fight against terrorism is evolving. senator mccain says if there is no goal, if there is no strategy, it would be tough to get that kind of money from
taxpayers. >> absolutely. no one looks to a blank check. they look to what a strategy is and plan is and look for the president to recommit himself to seeing that islamic extremism is the threat to the united states and what's the strategy and plan for congress to take action to authorize funding for this and to appropriate funding. i don't think anybody wants to say president obama, certainly, whatever you want to do. wherever this goes without any consultation with congress, you should have approval. >> you brought up 9/11 a minute ago. it's hard not to talk about it. i was walking around ground zero this weekend. you were part of a classified briefing on worldwide threats yesterday. what can you share here? >> it's a grim picture. i was speaking yesterday to representative klein from minnesota and he suggested everyone go back to read chapter 12 from the 9/11 commission report because it lays out where we are. if you take your eye off the ball and don't hold pressure on a extremism and terrorism, it's
going to grow. it's looking at that as a threat to the united states and having a strategy to target it. the president has not. he withdrew our troops and let iraq fall into the disarray that we see today. his strategy and plan has to go beyond isis and recommitting the united states to a policy of addressing islamic extremism and terrorism. >> far beyond isis. who knows how long such an abstract concept. an enemy with so much intelligence in syria. the u.s. doesn't even have. >> because the president is allowed so much time to elapse, he has difficulty putting the plan together. even if he degrades or compromises isis and their capabilities, who will hold this land and fill that gap in space? we certainly saw in libya the president had no post-qaddafi plan. if the president doesn't have a post-isis plan, could see that type of chaos envelope in iraq.
this is going to take great resolve on the parts of the president besides just limited air strikes. >> just talking to fareed zakaria who i consider intelligent and knows a lot of things about the world and he wrote a piece pushing back on that. even he was surprised to see once dictators fell and we saw the time post-arab spring, no one could have predicted what would have happened in egypt and libya and the like. congressman mike turner, i thank you so much for taking the time to come on with me and once again just a reminder to all of us as we sit and watch the president's speech tonight 9:00 eastern, you can watch it live right here with us on cnn. just ahead, can president obama convince arab countries to join this fight here? we'll talk live to a retired military colonel about why certain countries are hesitant and why others could be convinced tonight from the speech. also ahead, why didn't the nfl see the video of ray rice
beating his then fiance? my next guest who represented mega athletes ben roethlisberger, ray lewis, tells me what he would have done if the nfl had come to him looking for the video. stay right there. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there.
you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. there have been questions about whether nfl commissioner roger goodell saw the video of ray rice punching his then fiance in that elevator in that atlantic city casino. tmz got their hands on the tape and released it and harvey levin has one big burning question. listen. >> i think the real issue is why the heck didn't the nfl commissioner seek to get it?
he's a very aggressive guy and anybody who knows anything about him knows that when he conducts an investigation, he literally micromanages it. he will make phone calls. he will do all sorts of things to make sure that punishment is done. >> this morning commissioner goodell said his people asked multiple times for any footage related to that incident. >> we had not seen any videotape of what occurred in the elevator. we assumed that there was a video. we asked for video. we were never granted that opportunity. >> the question becomes did the nfl drop the ball or was the nfl willfully ignorant about what was on this tape? >> we certainly didn't know what was on the tape. we've been open and honest and i have also from two weeks ago when i acknowledged that we didn't get this right.
that's my responsibility. i'm accountable for that. >> as you know, watching the news this week, that video took down ray rice's career but the question is now could roger goodell's be next? the drum beat to fire the nfl commissioner has been intensifying. case in point, keith olbermann on monday. >> roger goodell's existence, who he is, what he turned the nfl commissioner's office into is now symbolized by ray rice's brutal left hand striking janay palmer and striking her again. mr. goodell is an enabler of men that beat women. his position within the national football league is no longer tenable. >> and now today the president of the national organization for women says "the nfl lost its way. new leadership must come in to transform the culture of violence against him." roger goodell did acknowledge this to cbs news.
there is domestic violence problem in the nfl but he isn't worried about his job and he did not rule out a comeback for ray rice. >> what does that mean that he was suspended indefinitely? does that mean ray rice will never play in the nfl again? >> i don't rule that out but he would have to make sure that we are fully confident that he's addressing this issue clearly. he's paid a price for the actions that he's already taken. >> do you feel like your job is on the line? >> no. i'm used to criticism. i'm used to that. every day i have to earn my stripes. >> so can ray rice come back one day? let me bring in don samuel, a criminal defense attorney who represented troubled pro players, ben roethlisberger, ray lewis. don, welcome. >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> let me begin with the video. if you had this video all along,
let's say ray rice was your client. nfl comes to you. they approach you to see the video. what would you tell them? >> my initial inclination would be not to share evidence that's incriminating of the client. when you represent athletes, the nfl or any pro sport, you have to be conscious of the fact that you're protecting them not only in their criminal case but also in their professional life. so you have to make a decision whether you want to address it up front, deal with the commissioner up front, explain to the commissioner up front everything that happened and try to mitigate the damage. >> even if as we know ray rice admitted to everything that we eventually saw in the elevator. >> right. >> same answer? >> the same answer. what's happened here is it was disclosure so late which ended up having such a detrimental effect on his career. i wonder if the defense lawyer at the time if he could have foreseen this happening should have brought it out in the open saying we're dealing with it. we'll make amends. we're going to deal with our own
personal problems. my guess is the result would have been better than it is as of today any way. >> we learned yesterday according to the casino, you know, that that tape had gotten to multiple people including the defense attorney. the other thing i wanted to ask you about as we just heard in the last bit of the interview with norah o'donnell and cbs, you heard roger goodell suggest that ray rice could play again. ben roethlisberger is still playing. and right now just perspective in the nfl currently, there are three players, one accused, two convicted of domestic violence, they are all still playing. so if you were representing ray rice, who is indefinitely suspended now and yanked off the ravens, would you a appeal this? >> ray rice was not guilty of any crime. there was no reason for him to be in any way suffering any
problems. ben roethlisberger was never indicted for any crime. i would be careful about lumping in with other people. >> a couple people aren't convicted of domestic violence either but there are charges. would you go for an appeal? >> i would talk to ray rice about how to turn this around. it's time now to figure out how to turn this around and become more of a hero in this case. you're going to need to make amends. you're going to need to be publicly acknowledged of guilt and somehow portray yourself as someone worthy of playing in the nfl again and that's what he needs to do now. >> i just have to ask then. how would you make ray rice given this video that the whole world has now seen, how do you make him a hero off the field? >> he needs to become a leader in fighting abuse. he needs to talk to men's groups. there's plenty of opportunities out there to become someone who says i did wrong. there's nothing about what i did that was right. i make no excuses for it.
now i'll try to prevent it from happening to other women and try to counsel other people in the nfl. talk to high school students. talk to college students. talk to other athletes. and try to see if i can prevent this from happening to other people and maybe he can earn his way back into the nfl in that way. >> don samuel, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> sure. and as you hear this discussion about domestic violence in the wake of this video, you have heard from women. you have heard from survivors. but we will hear from a man from someone who counsels the abusers themselves and get this, ray rice is currently a huge topic of discussion in those circles. what the heck are they saying about this whole story. plus, arab countries have a lot to offer the united states in the fight overseas, the fight against isis, the question is will they help? hear why some of them are afraid to support america. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare? that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything.
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the u.s. is enlisting support to fight islamic militants in iraq and syria. what would that look like? he's back with us. cnn military analyst, retired u.s. intelligence officer assigned to the u.s. embassy in baghdad. >> and syria. >> welcome back. >> sure. >> let's begin with the bigger picture. we're talking about the working coalition. these are not all nations who have joined the fight specifically turkey which we're going to get to in a minute. why are these key? >> these are nato allies. we want them to be involved in
this. we believe they are threatened as well because western europe is where many of these isis fighters, western ones, come from. they are at risk just as we are. >> sheer geography on those points. it's important to show this point the quick land grab here. when we heard from secretary hagel a week ago, he said something that stunned us. they control of a half of iraq half of syria. >> they control this whole swath here. this whole area here. >> standby. there we go. >> this whole area is isis. what's not shown in these lines is sand. it's basically their control of that whole area. >> i want to hone in on a couple countries. saudi arabia and qatar, we know that secretary kerry in baghdad today heading to saudi arabia. he's making a tour of some of these countries to try to pull them in and get them on our side as far as this fight against isis. saudi arabia is interesting
because you say there is no way they will help the u.s. fight unless the u.s. is on the ground. >> they're not going to go to iraq and fight isis to control this area up here. they will defend their border. if isis comes down and they're here, isis is here and they could come down here. the problem is this doesn't present a threat to saudi arabia because the capital is here and oil is here. so there's a lot of sand out there that the saudis could string them out and try to kill them out there. sending forces to iraq, i don't see that unless we send american troops first. they won't put their young men at risk if we won't put ours. >> that's the point on vasaudi arabia. turkey is interesting to talk about not just because the shear geography north of these two nations. isis or the terrorist organizations are holding 49 of their turkish diplomats but turkey is used as a location as
a place for folks to come in and fight. >> you have groups out there that control it. turkey is very concerned because we're relying on the kurds to fight this battle in northern iraq over here. and of course there's a large kurdish population out here and turks are very concerned that if they agree to some sort of kurdish homeland in northern iraq, it will incite this desire for kurdish homeland in eastern turkey. that's one thing -- the turks are walking a fine line here. they don't want to be convinced. they would like to sit this out. we strung forces across the border and not allowed to infiltrate into northern iraq. we would like to see them involved. tush irk troops would be a great addition to the troops if we had to go in there. the turks supporting the islamic groups. not isis but other groups that are sometimes allied with isis.
so turkey has to figure out what's in its national interest and i think it's going to be a very difficult convincing act for the secretary. >> okay. jordan also another nation. >> jordan again, excellent forces. great intelligence. probably the finest intelligence service in the middle east. they're going to provide a lot of great information. they already are. the problem is -- as i said before, isis is already out here. they could come in and trouble is once again it's a long way from here to where anything in jordan is very important. so are you going to see jordanian forces deployed to iraq? i don't think so. >> what is the most important arab nation for the u.s.? >> in this context, saudi arabia. they are the big kid on the block. if you talk about arab world at large, you would want to talk about egypt but egypt has its own problems and not threatened here. saudi arabia has probably the most to lose. we need to convince the saudis. it's going to be a really tough
sell. >> he's headed there this week and turkey as well. he being u.s. secretary of state john kerry. thank you very much. i appreciate it. here we are one day before 9/11. dick cheney of all people speaking out against president obama's foreign policy but hear specific reasons as to why he says the president is making america less safe today. and the nfl and domestic violence spoken together in almost the same breath lately. it wasn't until two weeks ago when the organization even had a really stringent domestic violence policy. we'll discuss that coming up. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough,
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you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. we're past the bottom of the hour and in a couple hours the world will find out if president obama plans to launch air strikes in syria as part of the plan to defeat the isis terror group. we know the president is asking members of congress to green light army and training and equipping the so-called moderate syrian rebels to fight isis on the ground but the president does not ask for authority to use u.s. military force against the terror group and congress doesn't appear too interested to vote on military action before the midterm elections in november. one voice on capitol hill is definitely stirring up a lot of
emotions. talking about former vice president dick cheney talking to house republicans on the hill with a warning. the u.s. military is unprepared to take on isis. he says because of a lack of military funding and what he calls "disengaged" president. >> when you have a president whose primary concern is never to "elevate america" it's no surprise that we also have a defense secretary in a er serio state of alarm. the world as secretary hagel said a few weeks ago, is exploding all over. i'm here to tell you there's a connection between these problems. between a disengaged president and some very volatile situations abroad. >> majority leader harry reid, senator harry reid, quick to mock cheney on the senate floor. >> there are people here in congress who are taking advice from dick cheney. he was here yesterday.
i think they better be careful with advice that they take from dick cheney. dick cheney is more responsible than anyone else for the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the country. the invasion of iraq. >> joining me now, buck sexton and also larry, a former al gore adviser and senior fellow for u.s. foreign policy. gentlemen, welcome. >> buck, to you first. you heard senator reid talk about the worst foreign policy decision ever. a day before 9/11. hours from hearing the president tonight talking about this new fight, this new terror organization. why the heck should anyone listen to dick cheney who many agree got it so, so wrong in iraq. >> this goes to compulsive need
to start talking about the first iraq war when we're about to look at the third iraq war. cheney views the obama world view as proven wrong by what's happened in the middle east. the idea that we can -- i was talking about lowering military readiness by having less troops in any period since world war ii is problematic because you can't foresee. this was foreseeable. what president obama is going to do tonight is say that those who are telling me to take action which means air strikes in iraq and syria and arming the peshmerga forces and assisting baghdad more directly, those are saying that were right. i was wrong. we have a strategy. it took me a while to get there. hopefully it will go better than the past few months. >> respond to buck's comments. specifically to the notion of democrats wanting to relitigate the woes of iraq past. >> frankly i find all of this very unfortunate.
i think it's unfortunate that vice president cheney is speaking out against president obama. the editorial in "the wall street journal" is unfortunate because neither side should be litigating the past and both sides are guilty of doing so. we have the president of the united states, the commander in chief, going to the nation tonight on a very serious matter of national security. all of us need to come together. we need to listen to the president. hear what he has to say. hopefully hear some firm resolve. understand the nature of the threat that we have at hand and move forward robustly into the future with our allies and these kinds of debates about how we got into iraq, what happened afterward, whether obama blew it by moving out of iraq too quickly are really not the point today. we've had plenty of debate about the past. we need to look ahead to the future and we need to rally the country even if you don't like
the president. >> larry, let me stay with you. this is something i was kicking around earlier wondering, it has been 13 years. 13 years since the u.s. has seen any major terror attack on u.s. soil. who gets that credit? >> i think both administrations frankly. no question that president bush was wise to rally the country in the days after 9/11 and put in place a counterterrorism strategy that put al qaeda on the run and made clear that, you know, we were not going to allow safe havens. now, president obama for all of the criticism and i have made many of it myself, many of those criticisms, but for all of the criticism, he has kept terrorists largely on the run certainly with regard to al qaeda. he has taken action in the area between afghanistan and pakistan. >> this is in defiance of the facts. we've seen al qaeda franchises
spring up where they didn't exist before and we see al qaeda operating with artillery pieces. they are doing things that when i served in iraq when i was there, we would not have dreamed up at the time because bush administration would not have allowed it and president obama thinks this is something we can have a coalition, a meeting. the fact that he's coming up tonight with a strategy is useful. it would be more useful if he hadn't said a couple weeks ago we don't have a strategy. it's as though this problem snuck up on the administration from nowhere and didn't know it was coming but they didn't look domestic politics to look like president obama is being drawn into another war in iraq. >> can i turn to you and try as best as we can take the politics out of this for just a second. i have been so curious -- i'll be sitting down with three veterans tomorrow ahead of the show. as a veteran having fought overseas and a lot of people have fought different iterations of what we know as islamic state, how do you and other veterans feel? what do you want to hear as far as military strategy to beat these guys?
>> i'm a former cia officer and not a veteran. i did serve. i served my country in two war zones. i would say at this point in time there has to be -- he was correct in saying robust action. i would question why its taken this long to figure out. you have former ambassador ryan crocker respected across intelligence and diplomatic community and a guy that knows what's going on and he wrote an editorial in which he made it very clear this administration is moving with absolute slowness at all times on this issue and that matters. the enemy gets a vote. they are more entrenched. building up their regional alliances. iraqi people look at this government in baghdad thinking will they be able to beat back these islamic terrorists and reality of all this is that if we don't actually move with speed and we don't actually do what is necessary immediately, not wait. not have these coalitions of the capable and very willing as john kerry says, we'll lose strategic initiative here and this problem won't be a couple years. we'll be there for decades. >> ryan crocker's word was
delusional. >> delusional administration. this idea that we're going to come together after president obama has made a hash of the whole situation i think is fantasy but i hope that he gives some good points tonight in the speech. >> we'll be talking it through i'm sure all day tomorrow. thank you so much for both perspectives. i appreciate the whole picture. here's a sobering thought. the nfl did not have a domestic violence policy until two weeks ago. we will look at the need for one within the organization and my next guest has an aimage to sho you that will put it all into context. tigers, both of you. tigers? don't be modest. i see how you've been investing. setting long term goals. diversifying. dip! you got our attention. we did? of course. you're type e* well, i have been researching retirement strategies. well that's what type e*s do. welcome home. taking control of your retirement?
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find new ways to save energy and money with pg&e's business energy check-up. the ray rice incident ignited a debate about off the field behave of players who are still on the field. two players that many are making reference to are 49ers defensive tackle ray mcdonald awho was arrested for hitting his pregnant fiance three days after the new policy was enact and he was convicted of threatening to kill his ex-girlfriend. both mcdonald and hardy are suiting up while ray rice is not. we'll go to the gal you have
seen on the tv a heck of a lot lately, rachel nichols. you were just making the point yesterday that so many people are focusing their anger and aggression on ray rice. perspective. let's talk about the other men. >> greg hardy. the problem is there's no video of what greg hardy did. i want you to do the video yourself in your head. imagine the video according to testimony of his trial where he was convicted, his girlfriend says that he picked her up. threw her on the bathroom floor. threatened to kill her. picked her up again. moved her over to the living room where he had a couch with guns and assault rifles laid out on the couch. told her that they were loaded. threw her onto the couch on top of the guns. started choking her. only at the end she realized she was going to live through this ordeal. a court convicted him. he is still playing because he is appealing the verdict. now, most people would be told they got -- >> convicted but still playing. >> the idea is that he would be
given the benefit of the doubt because he's still appealing. in our justice system, if you're convicted and you appeal, you're still in jail during your appeal process. that's what we're talking about here. it's important that people continue to put pressure on roger goodell to look at these cases. it's not just about video and whether he saw ray rice and what he did. it's about how they are handling things in the future. i want to show you this graph. the nfl doesn't have a huge domestic violence or crime problem. the red bars is national average. nfl is the blue bars. so nfl players if you look at those numbers, actually a lot better behaved than the national average. not just a little bit. a lot. now any problem is a problem. when you look at those bars, the domestic violence number is closest to the national average of anything. and that's really what we're talking about here. we're talking about the fact that as a whole you don't want to paint everyone where a broad brush, nfl players are not a huge problem overall. but proportionately domestic violence is a bigger problem in
the nfl than other issues we hear a lot more about and that's why it's so important that people continue to question the nfl and roger goodell and say, great, ray rice situation. you suspended him indefinitely. what are you going to do about everything else because those two guys whose faces you flashed on the screen are will playing this weekend and that is a problem. >> we need to keep talking about those guys. hardy making $13 million this year. rachel nichols, thank you very much. so when a man hits a woman and by the way it can go the other way around too. can he ever be counseled out of that kind of behavior or is it a trait and permanent part of who he is? his behavior? coming up next, we'll talk to a man who counsels these guys on abusive behavior and what he tells them in hope they will stop. (male announcer) it's happening.
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want to take you back to more on the coverage of the ray rice fallout. elevator s elevator surveillance video that is pushing this debate. one debate is whether the baltimore ravens blamed janay rice for what happened. our don lemon got espn anchor steven a. smith's take on that. as many of you know he caught
himself in controversy after talking that she may have provoked the response. but no one will say she brought this on herself after seeing the video. >> once the video came out, there's no question that nobody is going to come out and say she brought this on herself. you can talk to these tweets and what have you and you can surmise that's what they were insinua insinuating. after everybody saw this video yesterday, i don't think the nfl or anybody associated with this in any way or anybody that has two eyes and saw this would look to her and point the finger blaming her direction in any capacity. >> in a letter to fans, the owner of baltimore ravens acknowledged what ray and janay rice have been indicating since the february night he hit her. it happened one time. they told us nothing like this had happened before. he was showing great remorse. and again listened to the couple
speak on the violence themselves. this is before the nation knew and saw what a knockout punch from ray rice actually looked like. >> this is just totally inexcusable. i'm here today to tell you that, you know, i made the biggest mistake of my life. me. she can do no wrong. she's an angel. >> in the incident that night but i can say that i'm happy that we continue to work through it together. >> let's bring in a unique perspective here. an expert who knows abusers. we have a professor of psychology and director of events, counseling in chicago which provides court appointed counseling for men who beat their wives or partners. doctor, welcome. >> thank you. >> first of all, just from what we just heard, this couple maintains this is the one and only time. we can't climb in their
relationship. i'm not judging here. when you hear after seeing this video that ray rice says he hit janay rice one time, what do you think? >> it may be one time that he used physical violence but domestic abuse includes economic abuse, psychological abuse, verbal abuse, isolation. different forms of abuse. it could have been the first time that he engages in physical aggression. however, this type of behaviors are learned from previous experiences so if he has this type of behaviors, it means that it already is in his personalities and attitudes and judgment of situations such as a conflict or an argument. based on his learned behaviors, he had to make a decision as to how to resolve the conflict, the argument and like i said, these behaviors are learned so it's
really impossible that the person has -- that this is the first time they engage in this type of behaviors. maybe the physical violence but not the other types of abuses. >> let me talk about this group of abusers who you counseled. it's so important in talking to multiple women survivors and this can go both ways, women hitting men, men hitting women, a lot of people say stop asking the question why don't you just leave this abusive relationship and ask the question why are men beating these women. you talk to this counseling group just yesterday full of men and what was their reaction in seeing and hearing this video? >> they were talking about the video. they were basically asking the same questions as to why didn't he have any severe legal consequences as they did. they were also talking about whether the nfl knew about this video before. they were asking a lot of
questions yesterday and i think they wanted to in some ways some people wanted to relate to the situation and in some ways they wanted to ask questions because they want to figure it out the similarities that they have with the particular situation. >> my final question to you and these different men is why is it that these certain men in our society beat these women and more importantly, how do they stop? >> well, the only reason for domestic abuse is power and control and power and control we learn ideas about power and control from society, from the culture, from the institutions in society such as religion, politics, the school system, the media. movies. music. et cetera. all of these ideas are shaped into our attitudes and
perspectives and every time that we have a situation where we believe that we're losing control and power, we become aggressive and the own intention is to manipulate the person so the person can be able to listen to us and to respect us and to do what we want them to do. these are learned behaviors that we have learned since childhood and now they are affecting us. the only way to change is to understand that the only intention -- by the way, it's not a mistake. it's a choice that we chose. it's not a mistake like he said in the interview. we have to take responsibility. we to take accountability and understand the relationship we have in society and understand that we are affected also by our
male privilege. >> we are empowered to change that learned behavior. i would love to have you back to keep talking about this. i'm up against a break. we have to go. if you want to talk who jorge, he's in chicago. it's such an important conversation. we'll continue it another time. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there.