tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN September 11, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PDT
>> that a girl. a full interview with kendall jenner is on our website, check it out cnn.com/living. part of our fashion backstage pass. very cool fashion week. that's it for us "at this hour." >> i'm michaela pereira. >> i'm john berman. "legal view with ashleigh starts now. >> the bombshells keep exploding in the ray rice scandal. the commissioner insists nobody in the nfl knew about the in infamous elevator tape until monday of this week. but did a league executive actually see his tape months ago? the nfl is promising to look into the report. but wait, now even the investigators are being investigated. former fbi director robert mueller called in to lead an independent inquiry, but people are already questioning his objectivity pointing out his and his firm's friendly ties to the national football league.
also ahead, a new video obtained by cnn shedding new light in the michael brown shooting. just wait until you see and hears these witnesses react when the fatal shots were fired in ferguson, missouri. hello. i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." we want to believe roger goodell, he said he didn't know about the damming ray rice videotape before this week. the alternative is that he's lying about what he knew and when he knew it and no one wants to believe that. the only problem is, goodell is the one who hired the so-called independent investigator to get to the bottom of it all. he chose this man to gather evidence and pick through the league's records. robert mueller, you know him as the former fbi or the director of the fbi, not a bad resume, in fact, for an investigator, but is robert mueller coming to this potential disaster from a totally objective place? his law firm and the nfl go way
back. mueller is a partner in will mer hale, the firm that helped the league negotiate its deal with direct tv and represented the owner of the washington redskins, they helped jerry jones to buy the dallas cowboys as well. the indianapolis colts are on their client list and what i'm saying is will merhale is a football friendly law firm with deep interest in helping keep the nfl out of trouble. more on that in a second. a panel of sports types and lawyers and experts chomping at the bit, but let me set you up with this. here is what roger goodell says he knew and didn't know. what he saw and says he didn't see. here's cnn's miguel marquez. >> reporter: the nfl tapping former fbi director robert mueller to lead an independent investigation looking into how the nfl handled evidence in the domestic violence case against ray rice. mueller's probe will be overseen by two nfl owners and will be
made public. the announcement comes hours after the associated press reported a law enforcement source told them the tape of rice violently striking janay was sent to an executive five months ago. in an interview with cbs news on tuesday, nfl commissioner roger goodell maintained the league never saw the video until it went viral on monday. >> so did anyone in the nfl see this second videotape before monday? >> no. >> no one in the nfl? >> no one in the nfl to my knowledge. >> reporter: the ap says their source sent a dvd of the video unsolicited because he wanted them to see it before deciding on rice's punishment. the ap also saying the source played a 12-second voicemail message that came from an nfl office number on april 9th confirming the video arrived with a female voice saying you're right, it's terrible. the nfl issued a statement following the potential bombshell. we have no knowledge of this.
we are not aware of anyone in our office who possessed or saw the video before it was made public on monday. we will look into it. baltimore ravens owner steve ba shatty admitting they dropped the ball in handling the incident after seeing the initial video. >> i was picturing her whaling on him and hip smacking her and maybe her head was this far from the wall and with her inebriation dropped. so why did i conclude all that? because i wanted to. because i loved him. he had a stellar record and the cops had seen the video so i assumed it wasn't a forceful blow that moved her head three feet into that wall. >> reporter: the league continues to insist that it reached out multiple times to police and the prosecutor's office for the video, but couldn't get it. yet, rice's own attorney had a copy. in a letter to nfl club executives on wednesday, goodell says it would have been illegal for the league to get the video
from law enforcement or the casino itself once a criminal investigation begins. miguel marquez, cnn, new york. >> couple other things before we get into the what now conversation. the baltimore ravens will play tonight at home minus ray rice, of course. and look whose music you're going to be hearing beforehand. rihanna. rihanna is going to sing before the game. we all know she has her own public history with domestic violence and she's going to be doing the thursday night football theme song before the game. even though rihanna's performance was arranged and produced long before all of this transpired, football fans, music fans are all taking to social media and marveling at the irony of this performance. all right. rachel nickels you saw her in miguel marquez's report, mel robbins, a legal analyst, sonny hostin is a former federal prosecutor. sonny, want to start with you, with roger goodell saying we
went to the casino and the truth is, we were under the impression that it wasn't legal to go and get that video from the casino. >> yeah. >> you're a lawyer. that's crazy. >> it is. and i was actually quite frankly surprised to hear that. and rachel and i have been talking about this. >> we were on an e-mail chain. >> i e-mailed and said, lawyers, is this really illegal? because this seemed impossible. >> it just -- i think it goes to show you that, one, they don't seem to know how to run an investigation into domestic violence. we know that they have dropped the ball, the proverbial ball many times because of the stats, that there's so many of these db cases lingering on roger goodell's desk. >> you know he has loads of people at the nfl who are incredibly wise. >> top-notch investigators. >> top-notch lawyers. >> the suggestion they could not have gotten the tape in any way is i just think very suspect. i don't want to go so far to say this was willful ignorance but
it sure sounds like that. >> i'll tell you what, look at this, rachel -- >> in their offices. >> yeah. >> "the daily news" decided to call this the nfl, the national football liars. you've been outspoken about two options, roger goodell is lying or he is grossly incompetent or negligent or both. >> and look, you know, the nfl now it seems from the associated press report where they listened to a voicemail that had that electronic stamp and we've seen it on our voicemail that tells you what number it's coming from and the time and date and the associated press reporter saw that, that it came from the nfl offices. >> and heard it. >> and the person said on the voicemail, i got it. you're right, it's terrible. >> and legally an agent of the nfl had it which in my mind means roger goodell had it. >> roger goodell has made a case over and over again and punished people and taken away their money and suspended them saying the exact line, ignorance is mot an excuse.
>> good point to make. i want to bring you into this conversation with that exact point, mel. that was something during bounty gate, goodell said, ignorance is no excuse. even if, let's give him the benefit of the doubt -- >> i'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt, sorry. >> say he's not lying -- >> somebody's lying. >> let's just say that dvd got buried and never shown. >> how is it that -- >> ignorance is no excuse. >> well, it certainly is fair you now turn it back on him to say it's no excuse for you as a leader. he has also said the buck will stop with him. it's going to be interesting to see as this investigation unfolds if it actually is going to stop with him being removed by the owners. i kind of doubt that that's going to happen, but i personally believe when you've got reporters from the espn, reporters from "sports illustrated," citing sources, and describing the video back in july, and describing the fact that the nfl has seen this, describing the video in july she hits her head on railing,
clearly someone inside that organization knew about it. and frankly, this suspect just some fist string person warming the bench. this is a super star in the league. there is no doubt in my mind that if somebody received that, saw it, it was terrible, went up the chain of command. >> if this is true, there are those who say that's just it. that no owner will support roger goodell after this. >> you would think that but rachel and i have been talking about this. roger goodell made $44 million last year. >> $44.2 million. >> don't forget the point 2. >> and he makes so much money for the league, he has so many connections and he, in my view, has been sort of the teflon commissioner. we've seen adam silver with the nba be so decisive, act just sort of above reproach and we've seen roger goodell, quite frankly, drop the ball time and time again. i have been calling for him to step down from the minute that this story broke, but everyone saying not going to happen. >> if you listen to the nfl owners, the comments that
they've made publicly, it seems that there is no way that they will tell him to quit his job or they will force him out. >> not the players. drew brees said everybody's accountable. >> but the owners are the ones who control roger goodell's salary, control his employment. let's not forget that. we can be outraged the players can be upset but the owners who the ones that will make this decision. goodell said he will not resign. i want to show you something, not only has bob kraft one of the most powerful owners in the nfl came out and said he thought roger was doing a great job but look at this quote from john mayer ra, one of the owners, owners of the giants, that's going to oversee this investigation. john mara is a high character guy. i want to make that clear. he said something a lot of people liked. many of us were dissatisfied with the original two game suspension of ray rice. he said we have all learned a valuable lesson from this episode. take a look at the next part of his statement. the notion that league should have gone around law enforcement is in my opinion misguided as is the notion that commissioner's job is now in jeopardy.
the video is appalling but i believe the team and the league took appropriate action. >> wait. >> after they finally -- >> he's overseeing this thing. >> now again -- >> overseeing this thing. >> overseeing the investigation. >> people who know john mara and i know john mara this is a high character guy. i'm not going sit here and say he's going to be -- >> sponsors have called out -- >> but it is disturbing to see that from the guy who is overseeing the investigation. >> i have to wrap it there. i have so much more. the house trumps all of us. rachel, sonny and mel hold your thoughts. john boehner himself expected to address the issue of isis and the president. the president's plan to defeat the terrorist organization as announced last night. the flags are set up, the podium is i waiting the house speaker. after the break we'll bring you there live.
as i mentioned before the break the house speaker is about to take to the live mike with a live audience in a few moments to react to the president's address last night laying out the plan for the united states to battle isis, isil, islamic state, whatever you want to call them, those heartless, ruthless terrorists overtaking large swaths of land between syria and iraq. and are causing a great threat and consternation for a number of countries. america not the least of which, the threat now propelling the president to announce there will be air strikes, there will be air strikes inside sovereign syria and the money issue is likely to become part of the problem as the house speaker comes out to make his comments regarding the president's plan. as we wait for him, i certainly don't have to tell you what this date means to the history of this country and the world, but on the 13th anniversary of the
terror attacks brought by al qaeda, america is mobilizing ally s fies for a brand new forw but familiar enemy. in his prime time address from the white house president obama says the terrorist group that calls itself an islamic state makes a mockery of both islamic and state and vowed to strike it on both sides of the iraqi/syrian border winning support of friendly gulf states is critical and that's why secretary of state john kerry is in saudi arabia today. "the new york times" is reporting the saudis have agreed to play host to a program to train and equip so-called moderate fighters in syria. i'm joined by military analyst and retired air force lieutenant colonel rick francona. we could talk all day and not cover everything. start with the threat that isis, isil, islamic state is posing to america. here's what the president said about it last night.
>> what we have not yet detected specific plotting against our homeland isil leaders have threatened america and our al w allows. our intelligence community believes thousands of foreigners including europeans and some americans have joined them in syria and iraq, trained and battle hardened, these fighters could try to return to their home countries and carry out deadly attacks. >> quickly live to the house speaker. >> i think last night the president made a compelling case for action. as i said in my statement last night, there are still questions and concerns that remain. for example, i support the president's plan to train and equip iraqi security forces in the syrian opposition, but i remain concerned that those measures could take years to fully implement at a time when isil's momentum and territorial gains must be halted and reversed immediately.
we stand ready to work with the president, to put in place a plan that would destroy and defeat isil. members are getting briefed as we speak on the range of options that the president is contemplating. those briefings and consultations will continue. we delayed action on the continuing resolution yesterday to consider the president's request for authorization to train and equip the syrian rebels that are fighting isil. we're doing our due diligence here and discussing all of this with our members and frankly it's the right thing to do. yesterday we came together to honor fallen heros of 9/11 with the congressional gold medal, the highest honor we can bestow and today we pay our respects to their families. we never forget them and we'll never forget our responsibility to confront evil and to defeat
it. >> [ inaudible ] from that podium that the president goes it alone too much, he doesn't respect the constitutional power of congress. given that why not be much more active and have a vote to give the president authority? to have a congressional marker on this if this is such an incredible threat? >> i do believe it would be in the nation's interest, i would believe it's in the institution of the congress' interest to speak on this question. now normally in such a case, i've been through this a few times over the 24 years i've been here, the president of the united states would request that support and would supply the words of a resolution to authorize this force. and at this point in time, we've not gotten that request, we've not seen that language. >> but if the congress is such an equal partner as it is, why not write a resolution on your
own? >> typically in my time here in congress, that's not how this has happened. that the president would make that request and the president would supply the language for the resolution. >> do you believe the support is there and do you believe a resolution will pass? >> i think that we're at the beginning stages of building the kind of support that's necessary from the nation to carry out this plan and to carry it out successfully. we're at the beginning stages. >> will it be done in this work period as the president requested? >> you're talking about two different things. the president's request was for title 10 authorization to train and equip syrian rebels. that's the only request that has come from the white house at this point. and as i said i support the president's request. >> in your remarks last night and you alluded to this a moment ago, you said a speech is not a strategy. that implies that maybe you don't think that he has fully laid out a strategy and that you
think he is all-in. is that the case? >> well the briefings are continuing with the members. but i can tell you in our conversations this morning, a lot of our members don't feel like the campaign that was outlined last night, will accomplish the mission that the president says. and that is to destroy isil. and so frankly a lot of our members a lot more needs to be done than what was laid out last night. but again, the members, they've been in a briefing since 11:00 a.m. this morning with the president's top people to outline more of the specifics of what this plan consists of. >> what was that decision reflected in your statement last night? >> pardon me? >> what was that reflected in your statement last night? >> i'm not sure we're doing all we can do to defeat this terrorist threat. and if our goal is to eliminate
isil, there's a lot of doubt whether the plan that was outlined by the president last night is enough to accomplish that mission. >> mr. speaker, there seems to be a sense up here on capitol hill this is being pushed through, that there's just about a week left before people go back to their midterm campaigns. is this being rushed through too quickly? shouldn't there be more of a debate. is this something you think this congress will regret? >> the president on tuesday while i was at the white house, made this request of a specific request to have the ability to train syrian rebels. i wanted to make sure that members have ample time to have the conversation about this, started today, and it will continue and we'll make a decision next week on how it will proceed. >> told a group of reporters the decision has been made for two
votes, a vote on the authorization and then a vote on the cr. >> that's not true. >> look me in the eye. there is no decision made on how we're going to proceed. >> could you tell us what your preference is? do you believe that it would be best to have a separate vote on the title 10 authorization apart from the cr? are you okay with just embedding title 10 authorization within a much larger legislative piece? >> no decision has been made. we're going to -- that's why we had a conversation with our members today. these are serious discussions. this is a very serious issue and it ought to be handled that way and that's why these conversations are going to continue over the weekend so that the congress has ample time to consider the president's decision and to act on it. >> do you think based on all the information you've been given the syrian fighters would be a trustworthy and competent
approach? many americans are concerned about u.s. arms going to a force that we don't know everything about. do you think they can be effective? >> based on all the information that i've looked at, the free syrian army has been vetted by our intelligence officials. today they're going to fight against assad. they're going to fight against isil. they're in a fight against another al qaeda affiliate in eastern syria and they're about to get run over. f-16 is not a strategy and air strikes alone will not accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. and the president's made clear that he doesn't want u.s. boots on the ground. somebody's boots have to be on the ground and i do believe that what the president has asked
for, as the commander in chief, is this authority to train these syrian rebels and frankly we ought to give the president what he's asking for. >> if i'm hearing you correctly it sounds like there would at a minimum be a vote to give him the authority and the question is, whether you go beyond that and the timing and if so, the timing of that action? >> that would be correct. that would be correct. >> so mr. speaker -- >> when you talk about how long you [ inaudible ] let the continuing resolution sit out there, you hold it so you can see what the president wanted with the understanding maybe you slip it into that, but at some point do you have to decide to move the cr one way or another next week to make sure it get doesn't? >> i would hope so. there's no reason for it to be that much longer. >> mr. speaker, do you think that the president is wrong then to take u.s. combat troops on the ground in syria off the table right now?
>> we only have one commander in chief. he laid out his plan. i would never tell the enemy what i was willing or unwilling to do. but he is the commander in chief. he made that decision. at this point in time, it's important that we give the president what he's asking for. and we've got to keep our eye on the ball. the issue here is about defeating a terrorist threat that is real and imminent. >> but no answer to that question. does that mean you want to see american troops in syria? that's a tough one. the president said no. definitely bombs will fall, but boots, american boots, no. it's a nonstarter for now. maybe the headlines out of that is that, of course, the speaker of the house saying it is important to give the president what he wants but the criticism has been sort of couching all of
th his statements by saying effectively pretty good job last night but not exactly what we wanted. let me bring in rick francona on this. you heard the speech last night. wasn't as though there was anything new or alarming that we found out in terms of strategy. was there anything that you thought was missing? clearly the house speaker thought a lot was missing? >> the president laid out what he wants to do and i think it was important that he included syria and iraq. this is one problem, isis is the problem. they stradsle that border. we can't call it isis in iraq, isis in syria. everybody seems to be looking at it like we're going to do this operation in iraq. we're going to do something different in syria. i think we need to look at this as one target set and i think the president did that. >> one big thing -- i looked at you the minute the house speaker said the free syrian army has been very well vetted.
what? is that possible? >> no. it's very, very difficult. we've seen this backfire on us in the past. we've trusted people in the free syrian army only to find out a lot of the stuff has been funneled to some of the islamist groups. we don't know if it's going to isis, but nothing more than al qaeda in syria. >> what about al nusra? >> that's al qaeda in syria. >> this is one of the things that i've learned from so much of my time in a lot of different war zones and hot spots is that one week might be one philosophy and one alliance, and the next week it can completely change some. >> we're seeing that in syria a lot and mostly up to the local commanders, so if you've got al nusra the victory front commander who is allied temporarily with the islamic front commander and even sometimes with isis, to take on a particular regime target or even an fsa target, free syrian army target, they'll do that. when that battle is over, the he'll make different alliances so everything is so fluid up
there and i said last night so many moving parts in syria, syria is going to be the most difficult portion of this strategy. >> i only have time for a quick answer on this, but when the house speaker said somebody has to have boots on the ground should it be americans? >> it depends. if we really believe that this is a threat to the united states we shouldn't outsource our fighting. >> thank you for that. do appreciate your insight. america's highest paid athlete has his own story of domestic abuse. boxer floyd mayweather didn't pay a very big price in the court of public opinion for his domestic violence conviction in 2012. he's getting ready for a mall ti million dollar fight in las vegas this weekend. find out what he's been saying about ray rice and what he's saying to cnn about it all. get 4 lines for just a hundred bucks a month. with unlimited talk, text and now up to ten gigabytes of 4g lte data. no overages no contracts we'll even buy you out of yours. so make the switch today.
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or visit us online and download your guide free at answerstomedicare.com/tv. it's full of useful information to help you understand your medicare choices. and it's only from unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call right now or visit us online. . boxer floyd mayweather may be the last person who needs to comment on the ray rice domestic violence scandal. mayweather has sequester served time for abuse but didn't stop him from effectively sticking his foot in his mouth this week. at a news conference promoting his next fight this saturday he told reporters the nfl was too harsh with its indefinite suspension of rice. sarah sidner reports on why the prized fighter hasn't paid the kind of price the ravens' running back has played. >> reporter: floyd may wetter jr. defending more than his 46-0
winning streak after comments he made about ray rice's punishment for this disturbing incident. tuesday mayweather told reporters the nfl was wrong to increase rice's punishment after this video surfaced, adding, i think there's a lot worse things that go on in other people's households. it's just not caught on video if that's safe to say. i wish ray rice nothing but the best. the boxer is no stranger to the issue of domestic abuse. in 2011 he was convicted of it for beating and kicking his children's mother, the children watched. given your domestic violence history, why did you feel the need to just say anything about it and defend him? >> i said what i had to say. you know, i can't just keep dwelling on this. it's time for me to focus on my fight. i'm not an nfl player. and i apologize to the nfl for whatever i said. or for whoever i offended. like i said before, i'm not perfect. >> reporter: unlike rice, mayweather's career is still going strong.
when mayweather was convicted of domestic violence, soon after, a judge in 2012, allowed him to delay going to jail so that he could take part in a big money, highly publicized bought. what do you think he was treated differently than rice? >> there was no videotape. like you said. i believe if the videotape was out it would have been a different story. >> reporter: after this video went public the nfl suspended rice indefinitely. his team, cut him. contrast that with mayweather, who made $32 million in the fight after being convicted and sentenced for domestic violence. boxing fans didn't dessert him. that fight in 2012, generated d 1.5 million pay per view buys which translated into $94 million according to mayweather publicity documents. mayweather's attorney argued canceling the fight would hurt the local economy. several local businesses told us, that's true. >> it's the ul mighty dollar i'm
certain. he's also a woman beater and what used to be a fan of his, not anymore after i heard that. >> reporter: there are plenty of others in his corner. mayweather stands to get a $40 million plus payout in his upcoming fight against marcos maidana. >> do you think athletes that make big pmoney for yourself an the city do you think you get preferential treatment because of what you do even if you're convicted of domestic abuse? >> as of right now, no disrespect, but my job is to focus on maidana. it's time for me to leave that in the past. i have a tough task in front of me saturday. >> reporter: because he still has a job to focus on. >> sarah sidner joins me live from las vegas where the job he's focusing on is mayweather fighting on saturday. so what's the backlash or is there any backlash, where you're standing sarah? >> look, it's pretty much business as usual. we reached out to some of the
sponsors, showtime, for example, where people pay to watches these fights and pay big money. didn't have a comment. o'reilly auto parts who sponsors the fights didn't comment. corona front and center during the prefight press conference did talk to us saying they don't sponsor mayweather but sponsor golden boy productions which actually represents mayweather. a lot of boxers overall. what we're seeing here, if you talk to people, people say, look, you're going to be treated differently if you're caught on camera clearly than if you're just convicted. ashleigh? >> so, generally speaking, the fans feel the same way as the sponsors? what about the -- what about the vegas officials? are they weighing in? do they have any part in this? >> we couldn't get them to comment either. i can tell you back in 2012 the prosecution in that case, when a judge says hey, we're going to go ahead and let you delay going to jail so you can take part in this fight, the prosecution was angry. they argued why should he be
given preferential treatment, ashleigh, very frustrated with the justice system. it says what kind of message does that send to everybody pels? >> maybe there's a very strange irony in all this, sarah, because what he said was gee, i'm sure a lot worse happens behind closed doors and maybe that's the problem, is that because it's behind closed doors, that's why it stays there. if you don't get the video, don't get the elevator video, you don't get the outrage. sarah sidner, thank you. nice to see you. >> it is a very big day in the blade runner murder trial. yes, that trial that's been going on so long. south african track star oscar pistorius will not be facing a first-degree murder conviction, even murder. that does not mean his legal troubles are over, though. a judge has been on the bench and talking and still has yet to announce whether he's going to face something really serious. like culpable homicide. what is that exactly? going to break it down for you and what his reaction was in court after the break.
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the judge even though she spoke from the bench for quite some time hasn't finished announcing the verdict but does say that state did not prove premeditated murder so that he cannot be found guilty of murder. the olympic runner cried multiple times as the judge began reading her verdicts this morning. the blade runner still faces charges including culpable homicide and three weapons charges. >> the accused, therefore, cannot be found guilty of murder. that, however is not the end of the matter, as culpable homicide is a competent verdict. i am of the view that the accused acted too hastily and used excessive force. in the second senses it is clear that his conduct was negligent. >> even those weapons charges carry prison time. the judge will continue reading her verdicts and the reasoning
behind them tomorrow. so make sure you stay tuned. we'll have the final results on that trial coming up. and in other news a new tape exclusive to cnn shows witnesses reacting to the shooting of michael brown when it happened in ferguson, missouri. >> [ bleep ]. hands. >> inds out wh find out what they say they saw and why they were at the scene of the deadly shooting and why this tape is so significant to the case. (male announcer) it's happening. today, more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®, an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® is now available in flextouch® - the only prefilled insulin pen with no push-button extension. levemir® lasts 42 days without refrigeration. that's 50% longer than lantus®, which lasts 28 days.
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an exclusive new video and brand new witnesses are surfacing in the michael brown shooting case. the unarmed teenager was shot and killed by a police officer last month in ferguson, missouri. the new video shows two construction workers reacting, just moments after the shooting actually occurred. cnn's randi kaye looks at this video that brings a whole new perspective to the case. >> reporter: just after 12:00 noon ferguson, missouri. the men you see in this exclusive cell phone video hear gunshots. they are about 50 feet away from michael brown and officer darren wilson. the unidentified person recording this video captured the witness' reaction during the final moments of the shooting. >> he had his hands in the air. >> both men were contractors working in the area and did not
want to be identified. the man in the pink shirt told cnn they heard one gunshot and then about 30 seconds later, a second shot. he says he saw michael brown staggering. then he says brown put his hands up and said, okay, okay, okay. the witness told us the cop didn't say get on the ground. he just kept shooting. that same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw michael brown's brains come out of his head. again, reiterating his hands were up. watch how he motions on the video. the video these witnesses say was taken shortly after the shooting ended. if you look closely you can see a police officer in the distance beginning to put up crime scene tape. both men told us by the time it was over, there were three officers on the scene, but only one involved in the shooting. another voice is also heard on the tape. the contractor in the green shirt told me that voice belongs to a man he didn't know who pulled up alongside them yelling
this. that same contractor in green also told me that he saw michael brown running away from the police car. he said brown put his hands up and that the officer was chasing him. he also said that officer wilson fired another shot at brown while his back was turned. the contractor in the pink shirt also shared this. that a second officer who arrived later to the scene, also drew his weapon. he said, the one cop was the one who shot him and then i saw the other officer pull a gun out but he didn't shoot. that same worker described how brown staggered dead after the second shot 20 to 25 feet to the ground explaining he was like a walking dead guy. keep in mind, these men don't live in ferguson and don't know the brown family. but their account does square with what other witnesses have said. the woman who took cell phone video of brown's body lying in the street also told cnn, that
brown was shot from behind. just like the contractor in the green shirt says. >> while he was running away from the officer trying to get away, he was getting shot at. >> this witness told anderson he didn't see brown's hands up, perhaps he was running outside to the scene. but he did see brown turn around before being fatally shot. >> about time i get outside, he's already turned around facing the officer. he's balled up. he have his arms under his stomach and he was like halfway down like he was going down and the officer lets out about three or four shots at him. >> reporter: randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> i want to talk more about this with our legal analyst sonny hostin and mel robbins. i should add that randi has said they have spoken to the police and fbi so their part of this, you know, account is in the investigation. to you, sonny, it can't be
underscored how significant this part of the witness accounts is in the very notion that it is pure, fresh and within minutes of what happened. >> well, you know, i don't know. i think that certainly this is important evidence, but i am surprised at how important people believe it is. because there are five other witness accounts that square, square with what these two witnesses are saying. remember, we've got the person ta was with brown during the incident. >> dorian. >> a woman inside her vehicle. >> tiffany. >> another woman who observed the incident from her apartment balcony. we have a man inside his apartment. we've got another man standing outside, only two of them knew each other. those were the two women that -- >> tiffany and -- >> that worked together. and the suggestion somehow that this is such a game changer because of these two people, are saying that his hands were up, which is the same thing that all of the other people were saying, i think is -- >> i disagree.
>> the reason i bring it up, not that their accounts are somehow not pure, but when they gave them. because there's been so much media attention that by the time these other witnesses gave their accounts, could they hanot have been poisoned by the talk and yelling and jeeming. >> something else entirely in my mind that's going on about why this evidence is such a game changer and so incredibly important for the prosecution. and that is because it's visual evidence. it's fine to have a parade of five witnesses come on and you hope they testify in a manner that puts the jury right at the scene, and you hope those five witnesses are not slowly picked apart by cross-examination or small inconsistencies. this isn't a citizen that shot somebody, it's a police officer. so there's also the fact that lots of jurors feel like they -- feel like a police officer has more of a right to shoot and especially in missouri, there is
law. hold on a second, let me explain. this is a video that happened right after, seconds, and what you're saying -- >> three minutes i'm told. >> three minutes. you're seeing the authentic in the moment reaction and these guys are outraged and they're confused by it and they're so emotive they're throwing their hand in the air. that is very, very -- >> it's very good evidence and helpful, but i believe that the sort of narrative that has come in covering this case is, these other witnesses aren't credible. dorian is a liar. the other folks were outraged, you know, by the media coverage. >> but they were just countered by the witness account, the friend of the officer who called into the radio show. my point -- >> that's not even a witness account. >> it's an account of a witness account called into the police and corroborated, police say it's his story. >> but we haven't really heard from the officer.
>> there have been so many ugly voices coming in on opposite ends of the spectrum screaming about race and screaming about executions and screaming about -- everything has been fed. one of these witnesses actually has been using the terms that people have said on tv when she gives her witness accounts as lawyers, that's the first thing you do with witnesses on the stand, you try to start grabbing what they've been saying from media accounts. >> yeah. >> as part of their memory. it's not their fault necessarily. a lot of witnesses -- >> the brain actually -- >> they believe that's what they saw but they've been listening to so much coverage as well. >> i don't believe that. >> it happens. it happens in courtrooms we cover. >> that's not what has been happening here. >> how do you know? >> these are people who were interviewed the same day as the incident, the same day, ashleigh. >> not by the media. not by what you've seen. >> the bottom line we have witnesses that watch a lot of television, they watch "law and
order" and may use these terms but that does not mean that they did not see what they saw. prosecutors every single day put their cases together by getting people from the community who saw things, who are very brave to get up and get on a witness stand. >> i have to leave it there. >> to say they're not credible -- >> we are out of time. >> this is not over, this conversation. wolf blitzer trumps all of us and he's coming up next. stay tuned. wolf is coming up after this break. if you want to make things that move, move better, just talk to one of our scientists.
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president obama lays out his plan to take on isis. today the obama administration is trying to sell that plan to key members of congress. one of them, senator bill nelson of florida, standing by to join us live. there he is. president obama is also asking congress for approval to train local forces including syrian rebel fighters designed all of which to take on isis, but how can the united states trust those that the u.s. teaches will not turn on the u.s.? we'll hear from retired lieutenant general -- a retired army lieutenant gentle who trained iraqi forces. also on this 13th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks worries of a new terror threat against america. hello. i'mf