tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN September 12, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
and you can watch unguarded tonight at 10:30 eastern. and you can tweet the show and tune in on monday and you can watch us live and dvr so you don't miss a moment. thanks for watching "the situation room". erin burnett is up next. >> mcchrystal's opinion on terrorists. >> and a new information on roger goodell why he didn't charge ray rice for more. and another nfl player charged, this time for hurting a child. let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. out front tonight, the man who led an international coalition of sources in iraq and
afghanistan and head the sources that killed osama bin laden. but first new details tonight, the white house said for the first time u.s. air strikes will target isis leader shirp and how they will train troops. and today jim sciutto has more for us. and how specific are they? >> at this point they have not targeted leadership, but now they say it is not defensive, it is offensive. and they will target command and control and leaders and that is something we've seen as the u.s. have done against al qaeda affiliates in somalia and other places with success. >> and you have information in your reporting about the huge increase we saw, at first they said 10,000 isis fighters and now the cia is saying up to
35,500. what do you know about the search? >> this is a product of the isis success. it has swept across syria and into iraq, it has apracted more -- attracted more fighters from overseas and they take over territory to con script local fighters, some of them forcibly and some of them voluntarily, and it shoez you as the u.s. committed to destroying this force, how daunting that task will be. >> thank you so much. and joining me now is four star general stanley mcchrystal. he led to the capture of saddam hussein. and he was transforming the elite into what they are today. and general mcchrystal, thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> so how significant of a
threat is isis? is it being -- our people making too big of a deal of isis, or perhaps is it an even bigger threat than is being discussed? >> i think they are a significant threat on many level tz. they are a threat to the state of iraq. they are clearly a threat to syria. i think they are a threat to the united states because they have the aspiration to be a transnational terror unit from which they can push ideas. one of the things that is frightening about isis now that al qaeda could not do is they controlled terrain. that makes them vulnerable -- >> they have to protect it. >> and then you have to provide goods and services to a population to do all of the things of a state. and if you can do that to a level that is accepted by the population, even if it is not loved, they have the opportunity to get legitimacy they shouldn't
have. and over time that legitimacy could make them pretty difficult to root out. >> you talk about isis as a threat to the united states. what makes sure and so concerned about that threat? >> well you can never be 100% sure. but the number of foreigners typically people of middle eastern decent from europe and other places back into syria or iraq to join isis creates a pool of people likely to go home. so that is one. that is the most obvious ability to go back in to strike america or other parts of the world. i think that is a very real problem. but i think the wider problem is with stability in the region matters to us on many levels. we used to think about just the flow of oil out the persian gulf but it is more serious. we are an interconnected world, where what happens anywhere, essentially matters everywhere. and that isis can grow so fast
and be pushing for the establishment could create an industry that has huge effects on the world. i don't think anyone in the world, let alone the united states, could allow. >> and is this what you faced while you were in iraq fighting insurgency. >> i think so. >> so that is this serious. >> this is a serious threat. >> the president said they are striking in syria and there are 700 troops in iraq but there is not a word used to describe all of. >> that i want to play for you what kerry had to say and john kirby. >> is the united states at war with isis. it sounds like it is. >> i think that is the right terminology. >> make no mistake. we know we are at war with al
sighel. >> if you are on the ground and people are getting killed, to a soldier it feels like war and to the population it feels like war. >> so i understand it is to degrade and destroy isis. >> we have identified isis as a united states enemy and so people are asking that question. we no longer have it simply as a threat to iraq or syria, we have identified it as a separate enemy and so people are making that calculation. i think our credibility in the region and the world is also than it was in 2001 and that is not unexpected and no one person's fault. and if we start to point fingers, that is way over simplified. >> the president will tib with -- continue with air strikes but not put military boots on the ground. is that a promise that can be
kept? >> that is a difficult question. if you look back in history, when a strategy has a ways and means to commit it and when the ways and means don't achieve your ends, then you either change your objective, reduce it or change it, or you have to make the decision to cross the rubicon and do something else. and leaders and america around the world have faced that over and over. >> so i want to play a little bit of his speech to the nation earlier this week. here is the president. >> i made it clear we will funt down terrorists -- hunt down terrorists who threaten our country where ever they are. i will not stop taking threat of isil. if you threaten america, you will be sorry. >> and has he changed?
>> i think every president changes in office and i think president obama has established a record of being willing to do a number of counter terrorist operations around the world. i think that what we are now, though, is we are facing a big problem that may not be as easy to solve with what people want to say or very clean serge cal operations. it may take more and the nation will have to decide. >> and you are the one that set the [ inaudible ]. and special operations forces, a lot more of them, mcchrystal on steroids. how would you fight the war? if you had all of the tools, what would you do? >> the first thing you think about counter terrorist strike operations targeting, which is
what my organization focused primarily on. it is a tool. it is part of what you do. but it doesn't solve the problem. we did that for years in iraq. very effectively. but we really didn't get full effect until late 2006 and 2007 when a change in the wider strategy in iraq changed to counter insurgency and when the awaking started and the president approved the surge, a lot of things happened that allowed a different approach. and i think this is still appropriate, if you start to look for the simple, very surgical solution, it is an illusion. it is almost deceptive because it will look and feel like you are solving the problem when in realize the problem is much more fundamental. >> and in that sense, the air strikes and the shock and awe out there is just a small step.
>> it is part of a solution. but it is only part, in my view, of what is required. >> the president said he will arm the syrian rebels as part of the fight against isis. and this is something highly debated because congress didn't want to support some rebels and the fighting of bashar al assad. and so is that a smart move for the united states? >> i think it is a necessary move. if you don't arm the rebels, you leave the groups like isis and al nushra. you can put any number, but that is not what groups like that are made up of. so we need to be practical and
give them as much help as we can. >> even if the weapons end up in arms of a group that wants to use them against the united states. that is a risk we must take? >> i think it is. but i think you must take that risk. look at the alternative of not doing that. you leave a vacuum and them in a position where they won't be major players. >> in terms of syria, the u.s. intelligence is that they have not had any intelligence coming out of syria. they tried to reek sotloff and foley. and his mother spoke to my colleague anderson. >> steve believed to the end that his country would come to their aid. we were asked to not go to the media, to just trust that it
would be taken care of. we were told we could not raise ransom. it was illegal. we might be prosecuted. we were just told to trust that he would be freed somehow, miraculously, and he wasn't, was he? >> should the u.s. have negotiated, paid ransom or do something more to save the lives of steven sotloff and foley. >> but it is complex. the issue of paying ransom goes to creating a market for more hostages. so it is tragic to lose anyone and i feel for the families. but it is a difficult situation. and so it would be unfair to say they should have done more in this case. >> thanks, general mcchrystal. we'll be back in a moment
because whether the president was right when he called isis a j.v. team is critical. and the nfl commissioner explanation why he didn't act on the domestic violence. and then another nfl player charged with injury to a child. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there. ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better
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and more of my interview with stanley mcchrystal, who took on iraq and the taliban in afghanistan. there are fewer troops in iraq and which has led to a must less stable country. and listen to jay carney who is now a cnn contributor. >> i was there in syria. we knew them. come on, it is your boss that, when the entire national security team that wanted to arm and train them, he turned them down, mr. carney -- >> well, senator. >> so the fact is we have to disagree on that. >> no, facts are stup orn things mr. carney. if we had left a residual force, it would not be what there is today and there would be a lot more -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> senator i can pause it with great respect that i don't
disagree with you. >> no, you can't, because you don't have the facts. >> i'm curious why you think isis is as strong as it is right now. some say if president obama left a residual forces in iraq in 2011, this wouldn't be happening. people like john mccain make that argument strenuously. do you think that would have prevented what ear we're see -- we're seeing right now? >> i think some forces could have had a better effect to keep iraq going sectarian as it has which weaken the iraqi state. i don't think that created isis. i think it was created from the weakness inside of syria, the fact that the opposition groups were unable to get much traction which tends to award extreme elements. >> the blame game is ugly and simplistic but it is going on in
full force. there are those that say president obama, he didn't really want to renegotiate and if he had he could have kept troops in. and then there are others who say that bush committed to troop withdraws and he is the one that signed that agreement. is one side or the other more to blame, or is this plenty to go around? >> yeah, i remember when joe namoth said years ago. you never get blitzed in the press box. and unless you've been in the position where president bush or obama has been, it is really difficult to understand all of the context of a decision. i think there is plenty of blame for everything everybody -- everybody, but we spend too much time spent on blaming. what we need is cohesion in the united states in support of the president's strategy. is it a perfect strategy? no. i've never seen a perfect strategy. but i can guarantee it is a
weaker strategy if we don't fall behind it. >> he said earlier this year that isis was a j.v. team, now infamously. and this week he told the nation they are unique in their brutality. you said you think it is a significant threat and a significant threat to the united states. how did it happen so quickly, that a few months ago it was a j.v. team, and now the president is giving a prime time address and the nation is at war, for all intents and purposes? >> i don't know how strong it was before. they tend to build a structure that is hard-core committed people. once that gets going, the momentum of getting additional fighters to add to your numbers is easy after you've done the structure and the underlying foundation. my guess is that is what isis did. >> and so you think it is possible the president was right when he called it a j.v. team.
people are pointing out they didn't know what was happening, but it may have and it happened quickly. >> no, i'm saying isis may have been a varsity element but not as big. because the effectiveness is not the numbers, it is how effectively it is connected. isis is great at organization and great at propaganda and great at money. and so they've proven to be professional internally, so growing was not the hardest part, once you have that built. so my guess is we didn't see that as well as we might have. and that is of course always a danger with a group like that. >> and you are part of the organization that killed osama bin laden and zack owy. and the question for you, given that isis is now around and other al qaeda linked groups through the middle east and africa, does killing the
individual matter as much as you thought? >> no. killing the individual almost never solves the problem. you say the war on terror, thinking if we decapitated al qaeda they would collapse. i would tell a joke. we have the strategy of going at the top two plus seven or top nine and there was orders to do that. and i said if we took out the top nine people in the pentagon, would the pentagon collapse? and many said no, it would be better. and getting abu zawahiri was one thing and getting osama bin laden was two things, but you have to attack the structure of the organization, the people who
get stuff done. you come here at cnn and you don't go after the broadcasters, but you go after the production people or the technical people and you have to go out to the idea of the people that want to be part of it and the second is the much harder. but that is the strategy. >> so a strategy of trying to get al badday isn't going to stop isis? >> it causes isis problems but it is not cutting the head off a snake and expecting the snake to die. >> we'll have more with mcchrystal tonight. and out front is david garran. and he has not come out and spoke about isis and what is your reaction to what you just heard mr. mcchrystal said? >> i thought he was remarkable and dedicated to the president. and because this is a president who cashiered him. who asked for his resignation
after a return to his career and when people are making judgments about president obama's plan and to support it the way he has, was journal gentleman. >> he was very gentlemanly. and he agreed with the armed rebels, which the president is reaching for and even saying yes, weapons will be in the hands of military. but to achieve the goal of destroying isis, the president may need to change the means and in that we're talking about particularly troops on the ground? >> i thought that is exactly right, erin. i thought that was the one place that subtly and departed from the administration and he said, look when we had the success in iraq before, we had a strategy much like what is being talked about here but we had to change strategy and had the surge and the awakening and that worked
but that meant we had to put more troops on the ground and that is what worked. and i thought he gently but firmly said this may not work without more support and i'm glad you saw that. i thought the other thing he was straightforward about were his views about keeping more americans in iraq at the end of the war. and this is a very contentious issue that john mccain and jay carney were talking about the other night in the clip you just showed. mcchrystal is in the camp and i talked to him and said it elsewhere. i believe we would have been better served if we left a contingent of 8,000 or 10,000 there for a force. but we had more influence with the maliki government when we had a top-flite four-star general there. it made a different that maliki would do things more congenial
and might not have gone after the sunnis, which has helped isis gain in their atracks. >> and general petraeus was speaking at a 9/11 event last night and he said isis should not be overestimated, it doesn't have the root and numbers and the structure that al qaeda had when we launched the scourge and so he down played that. and mcchrystal said this is as big as any threat he saw in the insurgency. the two men who were most responsible for that fight and these responsibilities not agreeing on isis. >> i agree on that. and these are two men who are friends and have great respect with each other. i've been in private events with just the two of them and i can tell you there is enormous amounts of mutual respect.
i think they are just telling their minds as they see it. i think they are very measured. they haven't been edge gauged one way or the other. and when you reported tonight, are there more troops there than we thought, i thought 48 hours after the president's speech this looks like a more complicated mission than we thought two nights ago. there are more troops than we thought. when the new york time squars, has been supportive of president obama, said there is mixed opinion in the arab world at the request for help, that is different. when germany says we'll get some weapons to the kurds but we are not doing any bombing in syria. and britton as a foreign minister said we won't bomb and then cameron said he haven't made this decision yet. and it doesn't look like it is
put together and very complicated. >> and when the president makes a case, this is threat to the united states and then you are left alone. >> he will have to keep pushing on it. and he made the point it will take a long time and it could. normally the day after you make that kind of speech, you hit them. we are still gathering the coalition. >> thank you very much to you. >> thanks, erin. ray rice told roger goodell he punched his wife and now roger goodell said that is not true. and still woman who support ray rice. why women are still wearing his jersey.
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rice's attack. in a letter obtained by espn he said the description of ray rice's description was starkly different than the video that came up on monday. this contradicts reports that rice confessed to goodell he had punched his fiancee. >> reporter: today roger goodell on the offensive in a letter making official ray rice's indefinite suspension, the nfl chief lays blame at the feet of ray rice himself for misleading him about what happened in that atlantic city casino elevator in february. in the letter to the nfl players association obtained by espn, he realized the video from tmz showing the inside of the elevator. he writes this is a startingling seek wednesday of events from what you and your representatives stated on june
16th. that meeting now under intense scrutiny. four sources telling espn rice was honest and said he punched his then-fiancee he punched his wife. >> do you wish you had seen this video tape before it was released by tmz? >> absolutely. >> why? >> that is why we asked for it on many occasions. because when we make a decision we want to have all of the information that is available and obviously that was -- when we met with ray rice and his representatives, it was ambiguous about what actually happened. >> reporter: on wednesday goodell continued to blame rice for misleading him. >> the description of what happens was not consistent with what the video tape was. and when you see that, that was clear. >> reporter: the wall street journal reporting that just yesterday goodell told owners
that he believed her unconsciousness was a result of them both striking each other. and according to goodell, anyone could read the file the day of the incident and it was widely reported for months. rice struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. and now with the investigation under way by the former fbi director robert mueller, it is unlikely we'll hear anything from roger goodell any time soon. but mr. rice, he may have the next move in all of this. tuesday at noon is the day he has to appeal that indefinite suspension letter. we'll see if he does. erin. >> miguel, thank you. and now former nfl player, don macpherson, rachel nichols and our analyst rob ins. >> i'm shocked he continues to go with this story. it seems to be cooked up from
the nfl office. for months we never heard even during the initial outrage, we didn't hear that ray rice didn't tell them the whole story and this week this is what they come up with. and you see in miguel's report, the police report is clear, that he struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. there is nothing messy or murky about that. and so the idea they would be dependent on ray rice as opposed to the police to tell them what happened on the elevator and he may not have told them the exact full unvarnished truth is insane. if you are deciding a players' punishment, would you only take his word for it and not the police's word for it? it is a crazy notion, even if roger goodell is telling the truth, which frankly a lot of other sources are saying he might not be. >> and to rachel's point about the police report, and also espn is reporting other people are in
the room when ray rice told roger goodell what happened and other people in the room, four of them at least. said he used the word hit or slap. and even ray rice's friends are saying he told everything. one of his friends on the show last night and i'll just play exactly what he said. >> he told everyone that asked that was in position of authority from the nfl to his bosses with the ravens what he did. >> it is consistent. >> i believe that roger goodell thought he was trying to help ray rice and janay get past this. i believe he thought he would have the meeting and smooth things over. so he heard what he wanted to hear to give a two game suspension and smooth out the situation for all parties. the biggest mistake he made was that. he should let the police do what they do and not let it go. >> here is the thing as a regular american. >> i don't think that was the intention, but come on.
>> and also janay said we were in a fight and dragged her out in front of the media and said i was equally involved in this. >> but she said that sitting next to her husband, his boss and lawyers. is that a little bit coerced? >> it gives the impression that this is something that is not infrequent and that is how these things handled. bring everyone in the room and make nice and move on? >> it is definitely how they seem to get handled in the nfl. and look, i don't want to necessarily pile on so let me take a step back and give you my thoughts on this, erin. first of all, i think the problem with the nfl and this entire discussion is the nfl is never going to be aligned with the interest of finding justice in a case of domestic violence. they are a for-profit league that is in the business of playing a sport where men fight over a ball. they are never going to want to
hear a story where one of their players punched somebody, knocked them unconscious and then it could bring damage to the league. so they shouldn't be in a position to assess these. you either rebrand as the national felony league and don't worry about what your players are doing outside, or you call yourself the national football league and say we have a zero tolerance policy. at an arrest, you are suspended. done. not going to worry about it. >> but rachel, we already have tonight, minnesota vikings have just announced adrian peterson was indicted for injuring a child, while visiting peterson. and there are other domestic violence cases that we are aware of where there is a player playing this weekend. he is appealing. >> hardy is the one you are talking about. he has been convicted and is
appealing. now in the criminal justice system when you are committed of a crime, you have to stay in jail. but this is a different circumstance. but it is upsetting a lot of people. and i don't want to gloss over adrian peterson because he is one of the best players in the nfl and he was just indicted and charges with his 4-year-old child and he was just disciplining him the way he was with sticks and switches. and his mother said he had scratches on his legs and scrotum and she returned him to the doctor and they photographed the cuts. and so he has been indicted. and what is interesting in this climate, he has not had his due process and it is only charges and he's already deactivated by the team. i don't think we would have seen that pre-ray rice video.
>> a small difference being made. >> thank you very much. and that is just awful to go through what was alleged to have heard. and don't miss rachel on unguarded in her conversation with floyd mayweather. that is tonight at 10:30. and many are still wearing their ray rice jersey. one of them joining me next. and what is your four live -- four living presidents living today. killing it.pedic is [kevin] no more tossin' and turnin', trying to find a comfortable spot in bed. [christi] it's really cool to the touch. [chelsea] my tempur-pedic... cuddles better than my husband does. but,that's just between you and me. [announcer] visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself.
tonight baltimore ravens fans are standing by ray rice after the first game when he attacked his now wife. fans came out wearing his number 27 jersey. plenty of those ravens fans were women. and up tonight is one of them, lauren brown. and i appreciate you taking the time and coming on to talk about this. i foe it is not easy but you made a choice to wear the jersey publicly and wearing it now. and you wore it last night at the game for the ravens?
>> i just wanted to show that i am behind being fair. i want what happened with -- what happened with ray rice was unfortunate and it was wrong but the way it was handled as far as his punishment goes is not fair? >> and what about it upsets you? what do you think it was unfair. >> the nfl, and then the video comes out with what happened inside of the elevator that nobody says that they saw. but once that surfaced or was leaked or whatever happened with it, the nfl punished him and suspended him indefinitely from the nfl and the ravens released him. >> so it was the way it went down. do you think they had it right
the first time and what do you think about the video and what you saw in that video? does that deserve the punishment they gave in february or the punishment he has now which is an indefinite suspension. >> i think the punishment as far as the indefinite suspension, it could be the right thing. but i think if that was the case they should have done that in the first place instead of suspending him for the first two games and then going back and suspending him indefinitely. >> it is the way it went down. by wearing the jersey you are not saying it would be wrong for someone to say it is okay that he did what did he or that is something that could be forgiven? >> no, it is not okay at all. what he did was wrong. but he is human and people make mistakes. and as far as me wearing this jersey, i think of it as him being a stellar running back,
record-breaking. and he took our ravens to the super bowl and helped us win it and for that i will wear the ray rice jersey. >> lauren, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. next, four living why. narrator: these are the skater kid: whoa narrator: that got torture tested by teenagers and cried out for help. from the surprised designers. who came to the rescue with a brilliant fix male designer: i love it narrator: which created thousands of new customers for the tennis shoes that got torture tested by teenagers. the internet of everything is changing manufacturing.
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today, president obama and former presidents bill clinton, george w. bush and george h.w. bush honored americorps, a program that gets people to volunteer and teach. our number tonight is 1.2 billion, the number of hours americans spent volunteering with americorps. but for some, like general mccrystal, wants to see others serve. >> you know if you can look at citizenship in american, i
believe it has degraded, er oded. a lot of people think that citizenship is voting and paying taxes and many don't do either. now we have an opportunity to bind people not just to the nation but to a citizenship and help others, there is a great history in america for that. so i thought it was a good thing today in d.c., that they pointed out one good example, americorps. >> and it is one thing that you believe should be mandatory for kids, and a lot of people heard that and said wait a minute, that is not something that happens in the united states. >> i believe that all young americans should have the opportunity to serve. and actually, i believe it should be a cultural expectation that every young american does a service year. 12 months of paid service, conservation, maybe military. because i think it will change their relationship toward each other and a sense of responsibility.
so i think it should be a cultural entity that is rewarded by jobs and access to education. >> so in terms of the age of the kids that you would ask this of, are these sort of 18 to 22, that sort of high school through college years? >> you want every american to serve. we're famoocused on the frankli project, 18 to 28. >> uh-huh. >> do it after high school or some point after that first decade after high school when they're young enough to be flexible. after a certain age you have family and mortgage and things that don't allow you to go spend a year. >> so there are two things that have that sort of thing, israel mandates military service, of course. and mormon church, i have seen them overseas out there, trying to win over converts. are those models you looked at? >> we did, but we're not
modelling any single idea or structure. what we're trying to model is where every american did volunteer service or they were in a militia or they helped to raise barns. we have to have a big idea where every young american when they're young just automatically doesn't ask if they're going to serve. they will ask each other okay, where are you planning to serve? >> and when you say this, look, it sounds amazing. the country is not set up this way. this doesn't exist. so how do you find these opportunities? americorps will create some, but obviously you're talking about millions more. and you say you will pay these young people. so that means taxpayer dollars. how much and where will you get it? >> well, that means a combination, we use some taxpayer money, and help from companies, and philanthropists. but let's look, for one year, it would take about $22 billion.
so it is a significant amount of money. we're going to need to move forward to the point where america accepts this. we're going to have to pay for it. it is going to take legislation and it being in the american culture. and people say well, that is hard. we can't do that. america can do anything it decides to do. >> all right, thank you so much, tom mccrystal. anything that anybody decides to do. >> we'll be right back with more on "outfront." abe! get in! punch it! let quicken loans help you save your money. with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze! can i get my experian credit report...eport card" thing. like, the one the bank sees. sheesh, i feel like i'm being interrogated over here. she's onto us. dump her. (phone ringing)
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hope everybody has a wonderful weekend, see you back here, anderson is next. thank you for joining us, we begin tonight with breaking news and more bad news for the nfl, in the middle of the ray rice scandal, another awful allegation to tell you about involving one of its players, minnesota runningback adrian peterson has been indicted on felony injury to a child. that, according to the montgomery county sheriff's office who has issued an arrest water for peterson. we'll have more on that in a moment. as you know, the nfl has a track record on dealing with people accused of crimes, that comes on