tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN October 2, 2014 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
we continue on. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. a stunner in the case of the first person diagnosed with ebola here in the united states. potentially contaminated waste, sheets, towels in the dallas apartment where thomas duncan was edsed ed staying before be admitted to the hospital. his partner, a woman named louise, told us that duncan's sheets are still on her bed.
you'll hear my conversation with anderson in just a second. first, more news as it pertains to this ebola patient hearing from his half brother who lives here in the u.s. in a cnn exclusive, he describes times of hardship and his brother's search for a better life. >> he's a hard working person. i left and came to the united states for brain surgery. he stayed there going to school. he has some experience of something he did in school and he moved to liberia until recently when he got a visa to come to the united states. >> that's the half brother. we have information coming from anderson cooper as he talked to the partner of this man, her name is louise.
here's my conversation with anderson just a short time ago. you just talked this morning to louise. we're not giving her whole name. who is the partner of thomas duncan. who is the patient, the ebola patient in dallas. so she -- begin at the beginning. it was her apartment at which she was staying, correct? >> louise has an apartment in dallas. lived there many years. she's a caretaker. thomas duncan was visiting her. she's had a relationship with him. they're not legally married. it's not clear to me what the current status is. he was visiting her and her family. started to feel sick. she took his temperature. it was about 101. she brought him to the hospital. she says as they were checking in at the emergency room, he was asked for social security number. she said he doesn't have one because he just came here from liberia. the person said, okay, that's no problem. they saw a healthcare worker. louise says she also told that person he had just come from
liberia. louise didn't mention ebola. she wasn't thinking about ebola at all. thomas duncan didn't mention it at all either and none of the healthcare workers, nurses or anyone else they had interaction with asked thomas duncan about -- >> after discussion with and on the recommendation of dr. frieden at the cdc as well as the public health commissioner for the state of texas, we moved to an incident command structure. that is being run out of the dallas county eoc and i've asked our partners in many important endeavors in the past like west nile virus and refugee situation with the children to assist on this and to continue with the great work they're doing but to also embed some of their key staff into that eoc operation,
the emergency operation center so we have the emergency manager for disd and some emergency management staff from the city of dallas there as well to ask dr. david laky who was instrumental in the turnaround of parkland hospital working with us on that as the state's top regulator and who was at my side throughout the west nile virus epidemic and was helpful also on the child refugee child relocation efforts to embed in our eoc for the state. he's brought some of his team here. i've asked dave, the associate director for communications and public health preparedness and response at the cdc who was embedded in my office upstairs for a couple of weeks during the west nile virus to embed there
as well. we have the top doctor in the world, the top ebola doctor in the world, here on the ground. he's embedded in another group at presbyterian. we have a good team of experts and people in place and i want to stress to you that the people who are here assisting the great work that's already been done by our local health department and our local agencies are people that i and our dallas county department of health and human services have worked well with and mayor rollins and others worked well in the past and we have a high degree of confidence in those people. now to assist us in this action, dallas county will act as the lead agency but when it comes to planning, those decisions will be made with the advice and
counsel of our partners from the cdc and the state, department of state health services. likewise, i want to get the input as we go forward and continue our strong partnership with the city of dallas and other agencies and groups in dallas county. the hospitals, all hospitals are represented through their agents over there at the incident command and we're moving quickly to continue and expedite the investigation and surveillance into these matters. a couple of things and i'll turn it over to someone. last night we placed orders on a family. we did that after balancing many
things. we do not intend to have to do that again. there's nothing more important than keeping you safe and based on the information we had, which i will not be publicly disclosing to you today, it was clear to me, a democrat, and governor perry, a republican, and everyone who looked at that information and the cdc, that the actions we took while unusual were appropriate. and they're there for safety of the family and the safety of the public. we have some hygiene issues that we are addressing in that apartment. this is a fluid situation. we have a contractor. there are protocols that have to be followed to clean and to take care of the things that need to be taken care of in there.
we have a contractor who will be there as soon as possible and will take care of those issues that are of concern to dr. laky and myself and our health department. we have food. we have delivered several days of food to that apartment. those people in the apartment are part of dallas county and they're going to be treated with the utmost respect and dignity in this unusual situation. dr. laky and i are going to reach out and put our eyes on that and i want to commend jennifer for her incredible work with that neighborhood. i realize that if you live
anywhere near that neighborhood, you're nervous now but the science hasn't changed overnight. this is not like the flu. it's not something where it spreads broadly through the community. you can only get sick, you can only contract it from someone who is having symptoms and remember that the only person who had symptoms is mr. duncan who is in the hospital and no one who has been around mr. duncan during the time that he has been symptomatic has shown any indication of having contracted ebola or being sick from any other related illness. so this is a matter that we have a high degree of confidence that we can control and we are
working to get the response, which has been a good response, strengthened every hour of the day. let's see if there's anything else. on the incident command, the name of the person that's going to be incident commander for us is chief doug bass. he is our emergency management chief. he's not going to be available for interviews. their job at incident command is to gather information and get tasks done that are given to them as the policy is laid down for them. and they are busy doing that. very busy doing that. so there's not going to be time for them or for any of our section chiefs in this unified command to give interviews for
the next few days. my chief of staff will head up the pios there and we'll have a joint communication with the city and other entities and we'll try to get that information out just as close to realtime as we can so that you can get that information to the public. we want to be as transparent as we can be and we want to have the public's confidence and the best way to have the public's confidence is to earn that confidence every single day. we're going to do everything that we can to do that. i see dr. theresa daniel in the back. you should come up here because you're more than welcome to come up here and the county commissioner, the sheriff, all of your county elected officials
and department heads are working hard. they're working together. they're providing support. same thing with the city. and the school district. and with that we're going to take some questions from you but with that i'm going to turn it over to dave. do you want to come say a few words from the cdc? >> i'm dave with the center for disease control and prevention. thank you very much. i want to tell you that we're really happy to be here. we're invited by the state and the county and the city and we get to work with them on this investigation and do the contact tracing so we have a team of about ten folks and it's ten folks here on the ground but you have to keep in mind cdc has hundreds of folks back in atlanta or working in emergency operation center and different teams and approximately over 130 folks deployed in west africa doing the same contact tracing work that we're doing here.
we're fortunate that several of the people here have experience in west africa doing contact tracing over there. we're working with the county. we're going to do contact tracing and divide up into two teams. one team will stay at the hospital and conduct tracing at the hospital. the other team is a community team and working once again with our partners at the county and state and will do community tracing and we're making great progress on that. i think the formal contact tracing where you have heard already there's a list of about 100 potential or possible contacts and that will be down to a list that will begin contact tracing on. so once again, it's great to be here. thanks for having us. i think probably do questions later and i'll get out of the way. >> let me ask you a question, sir. how do you come to this number of 100 as you begin this circle of contacts? >> you know, i might let dr.
zachary take that for you. >> wait for questions at the end. let's go through -- i think the mayor next. >> good afternoon. as you can see, each member up here has a specific role to play on this team. county judge jenkins is leading this effort. we appreciate cdc on tracking down these contacts and the expertise and mr. miles running the school front. what we're trying to do at the city is to make sure that we create a calm and safe environment for those people to do their work. that's our primary focus. this business is very local. when i say local, i don't mean dallas. i mean a very specific neighborhood in the northeast part of dallas. as clay said, jennifer gates has been out there almost nonstop with the neighborhood talking to
people and communicating with them. the second thing we have done is we have had reverse 911 calls to all of the residents. we've talked to them. we've explained to them what's happened. and we've given them the option to call us back. as i've said before, if citizens have any questions, they need to call 311. we will be able to give them a full explanation of what's happening and answer any questions that are challenging. if they feel sick, they need to call 911. and we will make sure that they get the first rate paramedics that worked on this at the very beginning and that sort of delivery system and we will take care of them from a health standpoint. we want to make sure that we handout all of the same materials that were handed out at the schools. we have gone door to door to make sure all of the people have so we're getting the word out
and people are starting to understand what is happening and what ebola is and the science behind it that you can't contract this unless you have contact with somebody that has shown signs of having this. the last thing that i would say -- excuse me. one thing i want to add. we've also embedded police there in the apartment complex to make sure there is calm and nothing else happens. we know the sheriff are doing their part in regards to the contacts but we want to create a safe environment there. that's where you come to play. i appreciate your professionalism as reporters and your aggressiveness. just know that you will have a moment to be part of the problem or part of the solution because it is at best disorganized out there and we have some members of the press that are creating a little bit more of it. i know that's hard for you to
imagine. we need everybody to be professional at this point. safety is first and foremost. not only of our patient at presbyterian but these individuals that lived with the patient for a while and the contacts. if we have chaos out there, and we've got some reporters that feel it is their obligation to pay people to move into their apartments, it creates a little bit of a difficult situation for the cdc and the county to do their job. i'm going to ask you as a professional one to another, be careful about how we interact there locally. and that's why we have people out there. we've got a city person working with the apartment manager. and if you have any questions, go to them and we'll make sure we're as transparent as we can but in an organized fashion.
obviously the very important part of this is children and what's happening at disd and i'll introduce mike miles. >> thank you, mr. mayor. i'm mike miles, superintendent. and for us there are three priorities. the first and foremost one is our children's safety. that's always going to be our priority so we're looki ining a that. second is providing information. we did a lot yesterday. we'll do that today. information to our parents, to our staff members, to our students so that they also understand the situation and we're as transparent and as we do every day to make sure we have high quality instruction. those are things going on today. we continue to do what we did yesterday and it's having an effect. we have additional nurses and health professionals on staff today, yesterday and we'll continue that tomorrow and then probably into next week and
those health professionals are answering questions from parents, from students. our nurses are making two rounds. they don't usually do this. during the school day to every classroom. also just to check to see if people have questions or if there's any symptoms of anything and so we're being vigilant there. we had additional custodians last night and we'll have today as well. today during the day we have additional custodians. we don't think there's any virus in any building but we'll take that off the table. we're doing extra cleaning and disinfecting. and then we're also enrolled the five students into the homebound program so that they will get curricular support and technology support to continue their education. i know there is some interest in our attendance. i can tell you i'm proud of the staff. we have our staff at the school. attendance rate for teachers is
same as always is and for students we're down a little bit. we're at 86% attendance for those five schools. rest of the district is the same. for those five schools 86% attendance. it's usually around 95% for those five schools. we're down a bit. i think the message was getting out and people do feel safe. that's why you have that high percentage of kids attending school and we just think that number is going to grow. i'll take questions afterwards. >> i guess what we can do is if you ask a question whoever you ask it of we'll have them come up. go ahead. >> my question remains how do we -- as we establish this circle of contacts starting with those most intimate out, how do we expand and get to 100 today that we're assessing for interview or more?
that's my question. who are those numbers? how did we get there? >> two points. let me make sure -- i want to thank the mayor and judge jenkins for the support that dallas county health and human services has been involved with over the past week. one point before i get to that question, i want to thank our top doc. we talk about a top doc nationally and statewide but the top doc locally is dr. christopher perkins. it's his staff that's been involved in doing the contact tracing. the elements that we looked at is let's start with the actual close family members. those family members were assessed and determined that they are part of the immediate contact investigation that we start from. at that point, we look at interviews with other members of the family or friends who might have come in contact with the patient or the family members so
you begin to build your tracing based on that information. from that dr. perkins' staff has done extensive interviews and done extensive evaluation determined based on judge jenkins, from that stand-point an order was delivered on signed by the doctors that the control measure needed to be put in place. this was a way to ensure that the public's fear would be put at rest in terms of any interaction with anyone who was the primary contact. from that you begin to build your circle with the other individuals that makes up the numbers, ie the best example i can give if 50 of us went to a restaurant. two of us got ill. that's a 52 number that we have to look at but only two people got ill. we still have to follow up on the other 50 people to rule out
whether or not they had food poisoning or any other issues from that restaurant. so from that concept, you build yo and then reduce your number. a lot of individuals we come into contact with will not have any -- they will not have any symptoms. they will not have any association other than the fact that someone said they were there or they might have had contact. this is local public health surveillance at its best and what we do day in and day out. another example is when we do tb investigation. you have covered enough tb supposed cases at a school. you see that we may test 100 students, 150 students, based on one confirmed case. we later come back and report there were no confirmed cases
based on testing done on other individuals. that's the clear 101 of the assessment and that's what's done to come up with that circle. the circle is a wide circle. it gets reduced. i want to thank erica. if you go to our website, you will see updated information on ebola. lastly, dr. perkins went out and assessed the family members today and determined that there is no symptoms and that everything is fine based on his assessment today. i want to be very clear on that process. >> i have follow-up. maybe dave can answer this as it relates to the surveillance or contact tracing of the paramedics and the workers there at presbyterian both on friday and sunday, sir. >> you know, what was your question? there is a team, we do have a
team that's working at presbyterian and they'll take a hard look at the healthcare workers. certainly in west africa the healthcare workers have been hit hard by ebola so we're concerned about infection control so they will do active surveillance and contact tracing we're doing in the community but at the hospital. >> are those workers being told not to work the hospital? >> i don't know the latest. i think part of this is evaluation is still going on. happy to update you when i find out. i don't know what they've been told right now. we're going to break that list down into high risk, no risk, and low risk. that's going to be the basis of our contact tracing based on whether the 100 possible candidates are high risk, low risk or no risk. that's really as you mentioned it's fluid and ongoing right now. >> we know there are other people that have come in close contact with bodily fluids so we've been told to expect potential other patients. when that happens, our local medical authorities will know it first. where will that patient be
taken? >> that's part of our evaluation and discussion we're having. we would have to determine the appropriate facility in which to take that individual to. one of the things that individual in our assessment of this, you're correct, of the contact investigation, we would determine if a person showed some type of signs or symptoms at that point we would get them to the appropriate hospital. at this time all our hospitals are set up to be able to deal with that process. to give you a specific location, i can't do that since we don't have that issue at this moment. >> wouldn't you want to keep them all in one place? >> that would have to be evaluated. >> why wait until the last minute to evaluate? >> we won't wait until the last minute. >> why did you decide to isolate them in the apartment complex -- >> let me say a couple things. in all likelihood -- first of
all, we're very hopeful and working hard so there won't be other cases. if there is another case and that presents at any of our emergency rooms, we've prepared our emergency rooms so they are ready to handle this and that was done back in august and they're continuing to work on that. if a case is picked up by an ambulance in all likelihood although that's -- any plan is subject to change in the planning stage. that person would be taken to presbyterian where they are doing an excellent job of taking care of the patient they have now. your question about what was it about isolation? >> why have the four been kept at the apartment complex instead of taken to a medical facility and have they attempted to leave since they were asked to stay home? >> they were noncompliant with a request to stay home and that's touched upon in the press release that was sent out. i don't want to go too far
beyond that. >> that was yesterday? >> that was yesterday or this morning, whenever that was sent out. it's important that we balance a couple of things in doing that. it's very important that dr. perkins' team has the patient there to test that temperature on that regular schedule twice a day. if people leave even though they are asymptomatic, if they're not hope, it defeats the purpose of the surveillance test and endangers them if they were to be infected they need to know that as quickly as possible. when they send children to school after being told not to send their children to school, you just heard mike say that we're usually at 94% to attendance, today we're at 86. i'm concerned about those children in that apartment. i'm concerned about every other
child in the county. it's not an easy decision to make. i can't give you all of the facts that we look at. it's an eyes decision to make if you know facts that we look at. >> can you go into detail on how -- >> you said you went to the complex and served papers there. dr. perkins has been there to check these patients. can you describe for us your visit and what precautions you took when going into that apartment? >> as we went into the apartment last night, we felt the appropriate action was to hear out family members and if they had concerns based on our conversation and of course they
may have interviewed with other people. based on our conversation, they understood what the process was about and we didn't meet any resistance in terms of them understanding. we read each line of the order and asked if they would be willing to comply and they said they would comply with the order. i never saw any resistance from them. >> judge, can you go into detail -- >> can you explain what happened last night? >> keep in mind these individuals are asymptomatic. as far as them being able to transmit this infection, it's non-existent to zero as we indicated yesterday. in regards to going out and monitoring them, i do not perceive that as a personal threat. as a clinician, i'm there on their behalf to monitor them and if they become symptomatic, get
them appropriate treatment. >> we know this is a population density. explain how many people were in that apartment. >> superintendent miles, quick question. >> let's just do two more. >> quick question for superintendent miles. a couple -- we talked to a parent today and they said their daughter was in class while the health department came and removed one of these kids from school. is that correct? >> i would have to have more information. i'm not sure what they're talking about. >> what can you tell us about the cleaning company that's coming today? what is their background? what are they focused on? how many people you had to go through before they agreed to do this? we're talking about the apartment. >> information about the cleaning company? >> and dirty sheets. >> how many companies did you have to go through to get them? what are they specifically going to do? >> the company that is doing the
cleaning whose names i was given but it escapes me at the moment. we can get it for you. the company that is doing the cleaning has worked for hospitals and for dallas county before and they're a company that cleans up and we have used them in hiv/aids situations where we needed to do a clean up. they use appropriate disinfe f t disinfectants and licensed to do that. sheets were placed in a sealed plastic bag and have been in the bag and belongings of mr. bunkian. those were also in a bag. they will appropriately dispose of those items and as information becomes available, we'll continue to bring it to
you and i thank you all for your attention. >> so you have been listening to local dallas county leaders talking about the situation, this ebola patient, this individual that flew from liberia to dallas. here's the news that broke while we were listening to them. let me bring in elizabeth cohen recently in liberia joining us from dallas. here's the news that just broke. while we were listening to that and discussing the fact that when one leaves now these western african countries, ie liberia you're screened multiple times. if this guy lied in three layers of screening they would prosecute. now we get confirmation from liberian airport authority that he answered no. let me be specific. he answered no to questions about whether he had cared for
an ebola patient which we know he had according to reporting that we're talking to in liberia or touched the body of someone who died in an area infected by ebola. it appears he lied. >> well, i can tell you about my experience, brooke. when i left the monrovia airport, i left one week after duncan left. you're handed this form. you have to fill it out. there's two questions on the form. did you stay in a house or have other casual contact with an ebola patient and the one that's probably even more relevant, have you taken care of an ebola patient or come into contact with the bodily fluids of an ebola patient. if he said yes to those questions, they would have said, hey, you have to wait 21 days until you leave the country. it appears from the reporting that you're talking about that he said no to those questions. that's obviously -- that's a big problem. i talked to public health folks
about this. public health only works if people tell the truth. >> it's the honor system. >> that's a great way of putting it. it's the honor system. what's not the honor system is your temperature but in this case he was asymptomatic and i've said this to folks at the cdc. you'll get someone that will hop on a plane who was infected a couple days before and they'll be asystem mptomatic. >> let's talk about this. it's the honor system. he didn't have a temperature apparently when he left liberia. he showed symptoms later when he was in dallas. how are airports, airlines supposed to handle this? >> that's right. i guess to give him potentially the benefit of the doubt since this is second hand someone saying what he knew, i've seen reports he may have thought it was a pregnancy related illness. this woman who did suffer from ebola and died from ebola was
pregnant at the time. when they were attempting to take her into care there in liberia, we're told by another outlet and cnn may have its own information he may have thought it wasn't ebola related. that does potentially point to a problem with surveillance screening itself. it's asking specifically about ebola. it should ask have you had contact with anyone with ebola-like symptoms. describe those symptoms in black and white. that can be followed up on by someone who knows what they're doing in the airport. >> i would love to give the benefit of the doubt as well but reading our own reporting not only was he living with but taking care of this person who was suffering from ebola. quickly, dr. gupta, you were in west africa a couple months ago. my question to you is this. we heard from this partner who anderson cooper talked to earlier today staying with and sharing the same bed with patient now, what happens to the sheets?
the towels? those kinds of materials. the waste from this apartment. what happens to that? >> well, i can tell you what happens typically in a hospital situation and in many ways he was in a medical care sort of situation. should have been in a hospital. he was in this apartment. what they would do is bring in biocontainment bags and take those things that could potentially have been contaminated and remove them and then they burn it. incineration is the most effective way of making sure you get rid of the ebola virus. i can tell you in guinea where i was, they would have these fields where they would set up these ebola hospital areas. when they were done in that particular area, it was scorched earth. they would burn everything to the ground because that's the most effective way to do it. that may be what's happening here as well. we did hear that they had a hard time finding a contractor who
would come in and do this work. >> can you blame them? >> well, you know, it's the reality now so they're going to have to -- some of this is anticipating these sorts of things and having a plan in place opposed to calling the day of saying by the way, we got some potentially contaminated sheets with ebola and can you send someone over? it needs to be more coordinated than that. again, we talk about having had months to prepare. there's probably going to need to be services in various cities that can do this sort of work. >> thank you all very much. we'll stay on this because coming up next, the bill and melinda gates foundation announced $50 million to help fight the ebola virus. what is this money being used for and how has there been progress is this we' progress? we'll talk to the ceo of the foundation next.
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you're watching cnn. i want to stay on this ebola story here. "the new york times" reporting that the u.s. health and human services department is working with multiple pharmaceutical companies to up production of the experimental drug that the two americans took to get better from the virus. remember they had come back and they are a-ok so the gates foundation, charity started by
gates and his wife. joining me now is the foundation president. so as i mentioned, 50 million from this foundation. tell me exactly where that money will go. >> we heard from many in early september that this epidemic was becoming a true crisis and so when bill and melinda agreed to set aside $50 million first and foremost we wanted funds to go quickly and flexibly to partners working on the ground so within 48 hours we moved money to w.h.o. to unicef to cdc and red cross for frontline healthcare workers and personal protection and supplies needed to patients and things needed to monitor the course of the epidemic, isolate contacts and provide for safe burials. our initial money up to $50 million went quickly for those frontline efforts. we also have funded as you
mentioned efforts in collaboration with other charities and with companies to start to try to accelerate vaccines and therapeutics that are research and development part of this and other epidemic control approaches in neighboring countries like nigeria and very importantly. >> let's talk about zmapp. this is of utmost importance. it says that bill and melinda gates foundation is investing in production in animal cells that will take more time. why opt that route? >> a couple things that are very important. there are two very important approaches on tackling the virus. one is a vaccine and there are
efforts to accelerate vaccine development that are being supported by the federal government and others. the vaccine is meant to be preventive therapy especially for healthcare workers but it's prophylactic or preventive. second way of thinking about this is antibodies. once you are sick, can you be treated? so zmapp, the therapy tried in the american healthcare workers and others is an experimental therapy that's been produced so far in tobacco plants using science of biotechnology. we and others are trying to help. can we go faster and more efficiently in tobacco but an alternative to tobacco will be using cells more like us as humans so in parallel we're interested in helping efforts to accelerate any human cell efforts and all of this is focused on a very singular thing, which is to not be
limited by funds or supply so that a missouri woman's account "i know someone sitting on the grand jury of this case. there isn't enough at this point to warrant an arrest." the grand jurors are supposed to keep their deliberations secret until a decision is made. so now an investigation on whether someone on the grand
jury leaked that information. sara sidner spoke to the woman from whose twitter account that tweet was sent. what did she say? >> reporter: well, it's interesting. that account has been taken down. so have some of the other accounts that she tweeted to. those also no longer online. we ended up finding her and knocking on her door and let me let you listen to what she said about this tweet that sparked more controversy in a town already dealing with tension. was that your account that the tweet was sent from? >> right. it was my account but i haven't used it so i'm not sure if someone hacked into it. it had been hacked before. sending out a bunch of spam mails or whatever they call it and so i quit using it because this is silly. >> reporter: did you know someone on the grand jury? >> no, i didn't. >> reporter: have you talked to the prosecuting attorney's office? >> i left a message with his
assistant. i'm not sure what the name is. when i called, i got the voice mail. >> reporter: have they contacted you and said anything to you and told you how important this is? >> no. no, they haven't. >> reporter: you heard her there that she hadn't heard from the prosecutor's office investigating this case. if what she said is true she doesn't know anybody on that grand jury and that her particular twitter account was hacked into, then hopefully it means that the grand jury still intact and they can go forward. we do understand the grand jury still has plenty to look at and we don't expect a decision until potentially mid november, brooke. >> sara sidner, thank you for tracking her down. we appreciate it. lots to talk about here with cnn legal analyst sunny hostin and also danny. let's get to it. it's one thing if this is in fact happened that this grand juror is talking about you the bigger takeaway to me is
takeaway for the grand juror is there's not enough on this officer. >> that's a big takeaway. it's also striking to me that our sara sidner could find the woman but the prosecuting attorney hasn't found her yet. that means in my view it's not really being investigated and taken seriously as it should be because grand juries are secret. to your point about their not being enough, that is just so shocking to me. i think for once danny will agree with me. grand jury proceedings are the prosecutor's playground. you can prosecute or indict almost anyone because the standard is just probable cause. it's more likely than not. what we have learned at cnn after interviewing so many people that there are a bunch of people that say one thing and there are a bunch of people that say another. some folks say that mike brown's hands were up. some folks say no, he charged the officer. when you have that kind of evidence that doesn't agree, then that is ripe for a trial. ripe for an indictment.
so the suggestion that there isn't enough is just remarkable. this is not a case that needed to even go in front of the grand jury. this is a case that a . >> and that officer testified, which we were shocked by. >> yes. >> but do you agree? >> i wasn't so shocked that he testified but she's absolutely right. when it comes to grand jury procedure, she's absolutely right. it's the prosecution's show. there's no cross-examination, the standard is much lower than that at an actual criminal trial. but the other part that i think we need to really incorporate is how believable was this tweet to begin with? >> that's the big question. it's very easy to indict. is it really that surprising that someone might try to get a juror off that grand jury? what's interesting to me is,
what did they know about that juror that made them decide, h mchl mm, this is the kind of guy i don't want on the jury. >> would they have to go back to scratch or would they yank that person? >> i think you've got to go back to the very beginning. the bottom line is, the grand jury process is sacred and i think if this is true, then it's tainted. and you have to either scrap the entire grand jury and go with the new some one or do what most prosecutors do in a case like this, have the guts to charge the case. charge it yourself. that's what prosecutors do most of the time. >> final thoughts, sir? >> i don't think the rules provide for scrapping the juror right away. he can be prosecuted if that is the case. it's a class a misdemeanor if you release evidence that you talked about in the grand jury. >> how do you know that when not everyone else has heard all of the evidence? >> i have no idea how you do
that. that's their problem. >> thank you both very much. i really appreciate it. coming up next, anthony bourdain joins me and talks about whether he worries about traveling amid all of the outbreak. and we get to seafood, culture, and fascination food from the bronx. stay with me. e ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs.
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and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. he takes you far and wide and now anthony bourdain: parts unknown is back. he adds shank high and even the far-flung bronx. it's so awesome to be back with you.
>> there is good catering today. >> good catering happening today. can we begin with this craze zee news conference out of dallas and we're learning more about this eebl patient. going to africa, i know you get all of these vaccines and shots but does it make you nervous when you go to these far flung places? >> i try to take reasonable precautions. we were planning a sierra leone shoot that we were planning because of ebola. i've been in liberia. not recently. so i know they have a tough time containing something like this that already faces an array of spectacular difficulties and something rare of an outbreak we
might well reconsider. sure. >> to sierra leone? >> yes. >> i'm a new yorker as of two months ago so i'm going to be paying extra attention to the piece on the bronx this weekend. here's a clip. >> old school new york good stuff. prepare to lose your mind. >> off cut pig parts? >> yes. >> is that the shank there? >> yes. the shoulder. we're going to get that in there. >> oh, yeah. so fat, skin, and -- >> yes. it's like a candy bar. >> amazing. amazing. >> so i get to taste the amazing, amazing stuff. >> this is really a wonderland
of pork. >> can you just tell me about it as i munch? >> slow-cooked pork over here, plantane and, of course, my favorite, a blood -- spicy blood sausage. not for everybody's taste but for me, pure heaven. >> hmm. it's delicious. what is it about the bronx? here you are, like tanzania, shanghai, the bronx. why? >> well, the world came to us a long time ago. it's right there. i'm so ashamed of myself as a new yorker. i've lived here since 17, 18 years old. we know brooklyn, we know queens. people all over the world who brought their food cultures with them and it's just there to be experienced 20 minutes away. >> that's awesome. >> so i thought i'd investigate. >> so you investigate and we'll check that out on sunday.
i remember when we met before the first season kicked off and i said to you, okay, what's like the tip of the bucket list? and you said, brooke, i'd like to. >> to iran. check? >> finally made it to iran. what we thought was maybe an opening and now perhaps it looks more like a blip. we managed to go, spend about ten days and had an extraordinary, heartbreaking, conspireing, deeply confusing but always an interesting experience. i think people are going to be stunned by what they see, the disconnect between the iran we see on the news, the iran we see in a geopolitical way and the iran that you see walking down the streets and meeting ordinary people. >> give me a slice of it walking down the street? >> people are welcoming and happy to see americans. there's a sense of -- a constant
testing of limits you can see on the ground and their faces, exploring what do they want to be, what kind of culture, what kind of country do they want to be and they are fighting this every minute. it's an extraordinary thing to see. >> i can't wait to see it and i'm happy to see your blip. if that's checked off the bucket list, what the heck is next? >> yemen, i'm thinking about. >> you're being serious? >> i'm being serious, if the military situation, the al qaeda situation becomes a little more reasonable, it's a fascinating and beautiful country i'd like to explore. >> thank you so much for sitting in traffic and i'm going to chow down with you before racing out of here. so good to have you on, as always. make sure you watch, "anthony
bourdain. . parts unknown." "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. is it ebola we have to fear or chronic incompetence? i'm jake tapper. this is "the lead." the national lead. more than 100 people we're told now at risk of possible ebola exposure in the united states. as we hear from a woman who shared a bed with an ebola patient in dallas. why is it taking an interview from cnn for the cdc to get the infected sheets and towels? and more carnage as isis stays on the move. also in national news, it was the last straw for the now