tv CNN Tonight CNN October 6, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
with an experimental drug and we've learned another detail from duncan's hometown in liberia, that the pregnant woman duncan helped died of ebola but the ebola diagnosis was not confirmed until after duncan had left for the united states. that does it for us. that does it for us. "cnn tonight" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. tonight, ebola in america. at this moment two patients in hospitals hundreds of miles apart. one freelance cameraman, ashoka muck pr mukpro strong enough to walk off an airplane. the other receiving an experimental drug. i'm going to talk with his drug. and president barack obama called ebola a top national security priority. you've been sending us your questions and we're going to get answers from our team of experts. plus are there some things you just can't say when it comes to islam? and who decides? ben affleck and bill maher did
battle on islam over the weekend. >> i can show you a pew poll of egyptians. they're not outliers in the muslim world that say like 90% of them believe death is the appropriate response to leaving the religion. if 90% of brazilians thought that death was the appropriate response to leaving catholicism you would think it was a bigger deal. >> i would think it's a big deal no matter what. >> okay. but that's the -- >> well, tonight we have an uncensored debate on isis, islam, and violence. so stay tuned. we're going to begin tonight with the latest on ashoka mukpro the american cameraman. he was working with dr. nancy snyderman when he began to have symptoms in liberia. joining us exclusively is dr. brad britegan. my first question to you is what is ashoka mukpro's current
condition? >> he's quite stable. he's been having a little bit of nausea and doesn't feel like eating very much but has really been doing quite well over the course of the day. >> does it look like he's on the better side of this? >> you know, it's hard to know. certainly he's early in the course of the disease, and the major problems in terms of dehydration and particularly the nausea and vomiting and diarrhea that has been seen in other patients, he's not really had thus far. >> so we've been hearing about the experimental drug like m zap. is he receiving anything like that? >> we're considering all options. his treatment course is is still being evaluated. usually the first 24 hours after somebody arrives based on individualizing therapy a treatment course is put together. i would say, as i said this
morning, that really all treatment options are being kept open. right now i suspect that we'll probably be able to provide you some more definitive answers to that question tomorrow. and obviously with the permission of the patient since this really falls under the patient confidentiality issues. >> and doctor, his father is also a doctor. and you mentioned earlier today he expects his son to get worse before he gets better. so you said it's early on in his prognosis and it's hard to really tell how he's doing, correct? >> yes. i mean, every patient is different, but certainly he is relatively early in the course and i would agree with his father that in most cases the symptoms tend to progress over a period of time and you know, we'll hope for the best but prepare for the worst. >> let's talk about how he believes he contracted this. he believes he contracted ebola while cleaning an infected car. is that what he told you? >> he didn't tell me that.
that's what his father related that he had told him earlier today. >> okay. and people are wondering if that's possible, from cleaning an infected car. what's the likelihood of someone contracting ebola from that? >> well, i mean, it depends on if there is contaminated fluid in the car and depending upon the types of precautions and things that he was taking to prevent any contact with that material. it's certainly possible. all it takes is a little bit of a splash into a non-protected krar, particul area, particularly something like an eye that doesn't have skin over it, to protect from the virus gaining entry to the body. so it's certainly possible. >> are you having to calm the fears of other patients and maybe even your hospital staff that they won't contract ebola? >> no, we have been actually very fortunate here. our staff has been very
supportive. we've been very open with the patients who are in our hospital. they've been provided a letter explaining the situation. and it has really been very calm here. that was true of the first patient, dr. sacre, who was here, and certainly seems to be the case with mr. mukpo. >> what is the next step for ashoka? >> i'm sorry, for dr. sacre or -- >> no. ashoka. what is the next step for ashoka? >> you know, for now the treatment is really going to be supportive. so he is having his vital signs checked on a regular basis. he's receiving intravenous fluids. he's having bloodwork done to make sure that his blood chemistries are where they are. and other than that he's being kept comfortable, encouraged to rest, and he had a long flight here. so he certainly is tired.
>> dr. brad britigan, we know it's a busy time for you. we appreciate you joining us here on "cnn tonight." thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> later on in the show we're going to talk to the brother of dallas ebola patient thomas duncan but right now i want to bring in our medical correspondent, our very own sanjay gupta, to talk about how big this ebola crisis is and what the united states can do about it. dr. gupta, we just heard from a physician at the hospital where ashoka mukpo is being tweeted and treated and he with got this tweet question about him. the journalist in nebraska caught it from washing a car? wow. i asked that doctor about it. but does that seem possible to you, dr. gupta? >> well, he was walking around an ebola clinic. it sounds like -- this is before he was started working as a freelancer for nbc. he was working on a different project. took him to an ebola clinic. i would say that just being around that ebola clinic maybe there was another exposure somewhere around there he, would seem more likely than the idea of washing a car. in part the car's outside, it's
in the heat, in the sunlight. we know both those things can deactivate the virus. but we don't know, don. and he doesn't know probably. and the truth is you may never know exactly where the exposure was. but there clearly was an exposure with live virus to asho ashoka. >> the president spoke on the ebola threat today. let's listen. >> as i've said from the start of this outbreak, i consider this a top national security priority. meanwhile, at the federal level we're constantly reviewing and evaluating the measures we already have in place to see if there are additional improvements. we continue to look if there are any additional steps that can be taken to make sure the american people vaf, which is our highest priority. >> o'new screening protocols, san skrai. what would that entail? >> i think what he was referring to were a couple of places. one is should there be better screening protocols at airports specifically when somebody lands in the snuts to be clear, what happened with mr. duncan, sounds
like he was still healthy when he landed so an additional screening protocol probably still wouldn't have made a difference there. but also the word out to hospitals. we keep hearing, don, the cdc, those are the sort of ones in charge. what we're sort of finding out is the cdc, they're more providing guidance. so they're talking to these local health departments, e.r.s like where mr. duncan first went and said here is the protocol, let's be very specific on the protocol. if you have fever and you've returned from west africa then x. if you have fever and you've returned from west africa, here are the different things that can possibly happen. and it's consistent around the country. so whether you're in dallas or denver or wherever you may be it's going to be the same sort of protocol in all these places. >> so to come to some consensus about it. we have nebraska, we have dallas, and now here a nurse's assistant in spain tested positive for ebola. she's the first person who contracted the disease outside of west africa. i imagine this would worry many u.s. nurses and doctors who are really on the front lines of the
defense. >> yeah, it's a good point, don. what happened, mr. duncan, it was historic what happened because he was the first person to be diagnosed with ebola outside of africa. and as you mentioned, this nurse in spain the first person where you showed that it spread in a country outside of africa, went from one person to another person in a country outside of africa. yeah, i mean, look, health care providers are always the most at risk. it's health care providers who initially in these outbreaks are the ones who suddenly start to get sick, and that raises the alarms. what are we dealing with here exactly? so i think it does raise a level of concern and you're also hearing from nurses as you probably know, don. one poll today said almost 4 out of 5 of them believe that they haven't had yet adequate training when it comes to ebola specifically. they have adequate training when it comes to infectious diseases but ebola specifically that needs to happen for them. >> you 25ukd earlier about consistency in protocols, and here's what someone tweets, they're asking why aren't all of the ebola patients being contained to one area, atlanta or nebraska or something like that? we saw the first patient, you
remember, coming in to emory hospital. i was under the assumption that maybe if it did happen here that most of the patients would go there. why aren't they all in one place? >> well, these are patients, the ones that went to atlanta and now in nebraska, were patients who were diagnosed in another country and then sent to these facilities here if the united states. mr. duncan was diagnosed in dallas. so it's a little bit of a different situation. and we keep hearing over and over again, and i believe this, that despite all the terrible things we're hearing about ebola most hospitals can contain this. it's a simple isolation area where the patient needs to be. it's not anything that dramatic. really any hospital should be able to do this. and don, it's going to happen again. you're going to have another patient who comes and is going to be in another american city. everyone in the stient fik community recognizes that's going to happen. and they're probably going to be treated where they are. sometimes they're too sick to even move them after that. this is going to happen again,
i'm almost confident. >> you and elizabeth cohen have been saying that. thank you, dr. gupta. i really appreciate that. when we come right back, life under quarantine. the terrified partner of thomas eric duncan is behind closed doors tonight. her pastor is talking to her and tells me what her life is like. also, your questions on ebola. our expert medical team answers them. plus, a teenager is accused of plotting to join isis. how close did he get? [ male announcer ] we all think about life insurance. but when we start worrying about tomorrow, we miss out on the things that matter today. ♪ at axa, we offer advice and help you break down your insurance goals into small, manageable steps. because when you plan for tomorrow, it helps you live for today. can we help you take a small step?
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a dallas hospital, and when he arrived in texas just a few weeks ago before he came down with ebola duncan was staying at the apartment of his partner louise. now louise, her 13-year-old son and two nephews in their 20s, are quarantined until october 19th. they have been moved from her apartment to an undisclosed location. i'm joined now by pastor george mason, the senior pastor at wilshire baptist church in dallas, where louise is a member. i'm glad you could join us because you have some unique information for us, pastor. we understand that you were allowed in the quarantine house today. so tell us what it was like there and how everyone is doing. >> well, thank you, it's good to be with you, don. louise is doing fine under the circumstances. it's obviously a trying thing for her. she's a very sociable person. private in terms of the wider world but social in terms of her family and network, especially in the liberian community.
so she is frustrated by the lack of ability to relate to her friends and family. but overall she's doing okay. along with the three boys who are with her. they're cooped up, but they're managing. >> are they exhibiting any symptoms at all? >> they are not. grateful to god that every time they are tested they have no temperature and they're exhibiting no symptoms at this point. it's a day-to-day process, but they're grateful so far. >> a question twofold. how were you allowed to go in? and if you were allowed to go in are there health care workers or officials who are allowed to go in and treat them? >> well, yes, obviously the health care officials are monitoring their health. so they're able to go in. and there are government officials who have been taking care of them. of course the mayor mike rawlings and county judge clay jenkins have been remarkable through this whole process. really humanizing this drama, i think. and exercising great hospitality
of our city. giving them a more private place to be. looking after their needs. they've also been there and been in touch with them. they've invited me to be able to provide pastoral care and communicate the love of our congregation. >> you were able to go in. did you have to take certain precautions? what did you have to do? >> well, actually, there's no reason to be -- to take too many precautions because we know how the ebola virus spreads and because they're asymptomatic there really isn't that much to worry about. but just in case i did keep three feet distance and did not touch them. and they were very respectful. they wanted to make sure that was true as well. so we did all the right things. >> so talk to us about thomas eric duncan. did louise share with you why he came here to the united states? >> she certainly did. eric is what she calls him and what this immediate family calls him. he was coming to rekindle their relationship and to come and
speak to me about planning a wedding. they do share a 19-year-old son, who is here in texas. she's been in the states for 16 years. and we have known her for, well, just more than a year now. but he was coming specifically for the purpose of being with her and having a wedding. >> are they able to communicate, to speak, or has she been able to see him? >> she hasn't been able to do that since she's been in quarantine and especially since he's taken a downturn. he's isolated, and fortunately, even though he's in critical condition, today i think they got the word that they've been able to start some experimental drug treatments on him. and that's really cheered her because she's been looking for some good news. it's been very anxious for her. since he took the downturn she hasn't been able to speak to him by phone or anything. >> i understand that you had a
packed church yesterday. how are your parishioners doing with this? i'm sure there's deep concern in the community. >> well, there really is. but i have to tell you that the community has been really terrific about this. i think dallas has stepped up. certainly our government officials have done that. and our church considers this to be what i would call a terrible privilege. it's certainly a terrible thing. we're mournful about eric's condition and for her. but at the same time she's one of us. she's part of our church and she is a full-fledged member. we love and care for her. this is what we do as a church. we treat people as people and not as patients. there is a medical aspect to this. there are all sorts of other consequences. but she's louise. and remind her of that. she's a child of god. and she -- she's part of our
life. so we've been writing notes to her. i took a packet of about 100 notes from our congregation today and her face just lit up. she was really thrilled to be able to get that communication. i was able to leave a bible with her, and we were able to talk at a spiritual level because this is our contribution to this. >> and i'm glad -- i'm sure she is glad to have people around her who support her. thank you, pastor george mason, senior pastor of the wilshire baptist church. we appreciate you joining us. >> you're very welcome. >> thomas eric duncan's family, or eric as they call him, tells cnn he has been given an experimental drug to fight off the disease. i'm joined by wofford smallwood, duncan's half brother. thank you, sir, for joining us. i understand that you have just spoken with your son, who is inside the house with louise. how is he doing? >> well, thanks to everybody and thanks to the government and thanks to the president of the united states to discuss this issue today. when i talked to my son about
three hours ago, he was very happy and he was very okay. i asked him is anybody feeling sick? is anybody feeling a little dizzy? he said no, everybody okay. what did you eat today? he said we cook the regular food, african food, and eat, but the only problem we have is that nobody come in and we can't go outside. that's all he told me. >> so they're sort of cooped up in there for at least 21 days. so let's talk about your half brother. what is his condition tonight as you know of? >> okay. when i called the hospital two times today, i called the hospital at 5:00 or 7:00 this morning and when i called at 3:00 in the afternoon he told me that they had started the experimental drugs, using the experimental drugs on him. but when i asked your condition, because my sister, my mother have already arrived in dallas today. since this morning at 7:00 they arrived in dallas. what the hospital was not able to tell me, how he moving, how he lifting his eyes up or can
you open your eye? he said no. >> and what is your family coming from? are they coming from liberia? where are they coming from? >> they come from north carolina. my mother, my sister, my nephew. they join from north carolina up to dallas. >> so they're in the united states. so here's my question to you. there was some concern that your brother may have come here knowingly, possibly being inf t infected with the ebola virus to seek treatment. do you know why your brother came, and do you believe that is the case? >> i will never believe that my brother had come here knowing that he had ebola because ebola doesn't show on the body, that somebody crippled and somebody blind. nobody ever know you ever have ebola. even he had helped a pregnant woman according to the story we're hearing, he helped somebody, that doesn't make it wrong. it was not a mistake. because that's what we do in africa. we help each other. >> but if the form says were you
in contact with anyone with ebola, you know, and he did not check off that box or that particular question, if that is indeed it, then that would lead many to believe that he may have been misrepresenting himself. because the president of liberia has said that she will seek criminal charges against your brother if he lied on health forms before leaving the country. what's your response to that? >> if the president of liberia ever think to charge my brother or prosecute him, if the government -- one of the men elected as government. so if she said -- the stupid thing about liberia when people are dying, she's very stupid. a stupid president. that's what i have to say about her. she's really stupid. >> did your brother ever mention to anyone, to you or anyone that he came in contact with a woman who was ill or anyone who was ill? >> no, he had never said that. we help everybody every time.
he say lord help me. and i say eric, your prayers, i know you'll be okay. and we know he's going to be okay. as long as they're treating him to drugs, he'll be fine. >> wilfred smallwood, we're all hoping your brother will be fine. and everyone who has come in contact with this disease. thank you very much. and gluck to you. >> and thanks to all the reporters, all the friends who have come around the world. to the jesse jackson family. and who's ever able to help this family. thank all of you so much. >> thank you, mr. smallwood. is the u.s. facing a crisis with ebola? our mkt experts are going to weigh in on that. and they'll answer your questions. thavrng that's next. on the runw. (vo) don't let a severe cold hold you back.
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ebola from spreading. so is america facing a potential health crisis with this disease? joining me now, miles o'brien, science correspondent for pbs news hour. dr. seema yasmin is a professor of public health at the university of texas dallas. and a staff writer for the "dallas morning news." and dr. james sears is a pediatrician and co-host of "the doctors." good to have all of you with me this evening. dr. yasmin, i'm going to start with you. there are ebola patients now in dallas and omaha and now reported in spain. so at what point does this pass beyond a few isolated cases in terms of spreading outside of africa? >> so the experts have been saying for many months it's likely to other parts of the world just because this outbreak has been going on for so long in west africa, don. you know, we talk about it starting in march of this year. actually, it's more likely to have started in guinea in december of last year. you have an outbreak that goes on that long, you're going to see cases in other places. but in places like dallas, where i am right now, spread of the
disease out from this one case is very, very unlikely. we'll see isolated cases. they'll likely stay isolated cases. maybe a little bit of spread. nowhere near the outbreak proportions we're seeing in west africa. >> let's hope so. miles, you know, i found this interesting, that you expressed concern that there's an element of racism in the coverage of this outbreak. explain what you mean by that. >> well, i see a lot of media reporting, don, which tends to hype the fears and concerns associated with ebola way beyond the reality. you know, frankly, in the media we tend to focus on stories which are not reflective of the true risks we all face every day. we get scared getting on an airplane, for example, when in fact the real risk is just driving down the road. so i think what we're seeing is frankly an attempt to draw interest in viewers and ratings by hyping fear of something that is in fact kind of scary.
and really we all need to step back here for a moment and look at the real numbers and look at the real risk and look at the fact that what the doctors will tell you here is this is a perfectly containable situation in the first world, here in the u.s. >> i understand you're saying that. but where does the racism come into that? i want to get that. >> well, when you hear people on some channels talking about people going to witch doctors and the concerns about that, implied in that statement is a whole baggage of racism in my opinion. so i think that's playing to a lot of first world arrogance, frankly. and number two, when the term you should be worried these people are going to witch doctors is played in, i feel like there's some baggage that goes with that. >> okay. dr. sears, you're nodding your head there. what are you thinking? >> well, you know, this -- the fact that people get on a plane, how many of us have gotten on a
plane not feeling well? hopefully officials are going to do enough to not let this happen. a couple weeks ago i predicted that, you know, this disease, it's in west africa but it's only a plane ride away. i didn't think it was going to happen this quickly, but i think people kind of have a duty that if you've been -- if you're at risk, you've been exposed, and you're not feeling well, don't get on the plane and bring it to another country. >> i want to get some of your tweets. first i'm going to start with dr. yasmeen. elizabeth is wondering how you can tell if someone you're around has ebola. "if duncan and the others didn't think the pregnant woman had ebola when she collapsed, how symptomatic do you have to be to get ebola?" >> so we know that a person who has ebola cannot transmit that virus until they have the symptoms. those symptoms include fever, aches and pains, diarrhea, and vomiting. if they even have the virus in
their body, don, and they're not showing any of those symptoms, you can't catch from them. i want to bring up another point, though, don. i've been speaking to liberian refugees who live here in dallas. they've lived here for many years. they thought a few weeks ago that -- >> sorry. we lost dr. yasmeen there. i'll move on to dr. sears. dr. sears, what about the way patients themselves are treated when they are in the hospital here? because these what someone else says. "maybe they need new technology or new tech, as they say, meaning technology, like can the patients themselves wear protective gear that can still be treated through?" i don't know. >> well, i might jump in where the other doctor left off is i think the -- for the first five days of this illness you don't -- it seems like just any other -- the flu, aches, pains, fever, so you may not know that you have ebola. and that's where the problem lies. but this has really spread -- it can be secreted in bodily
fluids, vomit, sweat, saliva, but it's mainly the blood. so if patient -- mainly health care providers are practicing the universal precautions that we all are supposed to be doing in terms of not exposing ourselves to fluids from the patient, it shouldn't be spread. which kind of scares me about the situation of the cameraman. he's not exactly sure how he got it. was he washing the car and it got splattered in his eye? certainly that's theoretical but not very likely. so i think there's a bit of question -- question mark in terms of exactly how he got it, which is -- kind of worries me a bit. >> and of course you're saying you don't think they need new technology as long as they follow the guidelines that are already in place, health care co-workers should be okay. miles, another question from johan. a required 21-day quarantine for anyone traveling from ebola afflicted areas put lives on hold to save lives from this
disease. so if we get to this point in this epidemic who would have to put this quarantine into place? who would make that kind of decision if that is even pertinent, relevant, do you think? >> talk about a jurisdictional mess. how would you even begin to handle that kind of thing that seems -- i mean, the doctors will bear this out. if any individual that happens to travel to a particular country is quarantine ford 21 days, on the face of it that doesn't seem practical. secondly, we're going to shut down these countries completely? is that what we're talking about? that doesn't seem reasonable either. >> yeah. i came back from west africa less than 21 days go. i would be in quarantine still. go ahead, quickly, dr. sears. >> a few more cases like what's going on now, we may get to that. it sounds like something out of a science fiction movie, but it -- that's how you would stop it if you needed to. >> thank you very much, dr. yasmeen, dr. sears, and miles
o'brien. and a quick note. nova's "wide plains crash," a documentary written, produced, and narrated by miles o'brien premieres wednesday night 9:00 eastern on pbs. and coming up, a 19-year-old from illinois is in federal custody accused of trying to fly to the middle east to join isis. that story is next. helps you find a whole range of coverages. no one else gives you options like that. [voice echoing] no one at all! no one at all! no one. wake up! [gasp] oh!
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19-year-old american was arrested at chicago's o'hare airport on saturday charged with attempting to provide aid to isis. mohammed hamzah khan had a round-trip ticket from chicago to istanbul. in an interview with fbi agents and in a letter to his parents khan indicated that he did not plan to return and was on his way to join isis. joining us now is paul cruickshank, cnn terrorism analyst and the author of "agent storm: my life inside al qaeda and the cia." lieutenant colonel rick francona, cnn military analyst and former u.s. military attache in syria. so paul, what can you tell us about this teen? from the suburbs of chicago. arrested trying to join isis. what gives here? >> we don't know yet why he was
radicalized, but we do know he tried to board a flight to europe to get over to turkey and then to get over to syria. we do know that allegedly he wanted to go and join isis. the group over there. to either fight with them or to help them in some way. >> so not many, you know, teenagers have $4,000 at their disposal. to get a round-trip ticket from chicago to istanbul. do investigators know how he and where he got that money? >> well, that will be a big part of the investigation. was he given this ticket by someone, or did he manage to purchase it himself? that will be a big part. >> do we know how he -- how did he become radicalized? do we know? >> we don't know those details yet. those have not been released by authorities at this point. >> go ahead. >> but this is a guy they want. this is the gold standard. >> that was my question. why do they want him? >> this is an american citizen. he probably speaks unaccented english. he has an american passport. he can come and go as he pleases with that u.s. passport. so this is the guy you want to get over there. you can either use him there for
propaganda purposes. we saw that being done already. and/or he could be sent back to the united states. easy access when he returns. >> so more specifically, how would they use him? would that mean more recruiting? would that mean doing possible acts here? what does that mean? >> all of the above. we've seen them in videos over there make k recruitment videos talking to their brothers in the united states, come join the jihad. it makes it more powerful when you have an american talking to young disaffected american youth. >> go ahead. >> the biggest fear of course is he would get bomb-making training over there with some group and that he would be sent back to the united states to launch some sort of bomb attack. that's the biggest fear with all these americans who are with isis, about a dozen believed to be with isis. about 100 americans believed to join the various groups there. and about a dozen believed to be back now in the united states. >> so bomb-making, is that one of the reasons you say law enforcement should have concerns about potential american fighters? is that one of the reasons?
>> that's one of the reasons. >> what's the other? you say there are two. >> they wouldn't travel to syria at all. they would stay home and launch more attacks in the united states. retaliate for these air strikes against ice nis iraq and syria. the spokesman of isis a couple of weeks ago called for exactly this, lone wolf attacks in the united states by isis supporters, calling on their supporters to launch beheadings or any form of attacks on americans. >> the fbi director james comey on "60 minutes" yesterday. let's listen. >> how many americans are fighting in syria on the side of the terrorists? >> in the area of a dozen or so. >> do you know who they are? >> yes. >> each and every one of them? >> i think of that dozen or so i do. i hesitate only because i don't know what i don't know. >> with american passports how do you keep them from coming home and attacking the homeland? >> ultimately an american citizen, unless their passport's revoked, is entitled to come back. so someone who's fought with
isil with an american passport, wants to come back, we will track them very carefully. >> is there anything we can do about americans coming back? and can we track all of them for sure? >> it's going to be very difficult to track all of them. they're quite confident they've identified this dozen or so who are fighting with isis. there are others they believe are fighting with other jihadist groups and other rebel groups in syria, but difficult to know exactly what you know. >> and i hope he was referring to tracking them until they come back because i'm hoping that once you come back they are arrested. if they can arrest this young 19-year-old in chicago for merely intending to go be with isis and these people have already been there i think they should arrest them when they arrive. >> lieutenant colonel rick francona, pul cruickshank, we appreciate you joining us tonight. coming up, temperatures rise on hbo's "real time with bill maher," but it is nothing to do with hollywood and everything to do with islam and violence. more on that next. g a billion customers a year flying, means keeping seven billion transactions flowing.
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bill maher" between host bill maher and actor ben affleck and author sam harris. i want you to see what happens after the discussion turns to the idea that islam may be responsible for various human rights violations and violence. >> we have to -- >> that's gross. it's racist. >> but it's so not. >> it's like saying -- >> it's so not. >> you shifty jew. >> absolutely not. >> you're not listening to what we are saying. >> you guys are saying if you want to be liberals believe in liberal principles like freedom of speech, like we're endowed by our forefathers with inalienable rights, all rights are created equal p. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course we do. >> but islam is the mother lode of bad ideas. >> jesus. [ applause ] >> that's an ugly concept. >> joining us now marc lamont hill, cnn political commentator. ben ferguson, cnn political commentator and host of the ben ferguson show. marc, i'm going to start with you. such a bone of contention as you saw there. do you think that most people paint islam or even here with
too broad a brush when we ask about violence and pro o. pressing committed in the name of religion? >> i don't think most people do. i'd like to think most people appreciate that islam is like any other religion. there are fundamentalists. there are mainliners there are secularists. there are people who look at it -- but the bulk of people, the 1.6 billion people who practice islam an infinitesimal amount are engaged in any type of fanaticism that we see with isis and other groups. and when he says that islam is the mother lode of bad ideas that is horrific it's offensive and as ben said it's racist. >> that was some of the debate. they were also arguing whether liberals have failed when discussing islam, the treatment of women, the treatment of gays, free thinkers and public intellectuals in the so-called muslim world. marc, have liberals failed do you think when it comes to this? >> i think there's a space for to us push islam like other religions on issues of gender justice, on issues of equality but the circle i travel in we do just that. inside the muslim community and
outside the muslim community. there are very progressive conversations going on. is it everybody? of course not. but i think there is a conversation to be had but it can't come at the expense of a fair and evenhanded analysis not just of islam but other religions. islam is not uniquely violent or primarily violent or any more prone to violence than any other religion. >> why are you laughing? >> name another religion that does what isis and what al qaeda and what many islamists agree with and support. do you remember how many people celebrated in multiple countries around the world on 9/11 when the planes hit the towers? all over the muslim world they were celebrating in front of mosques. and to say that this is some small group of people. i think we've been very respectful of islam in this country. i think we have been very compassionate. i think we've been very willing to separate extremists. maybe more than we should. and apologizing for extremists more than we should. but to act as if other religions do this, they just don't. not in modern-day right now. you can go back hundreds of
years. but to say that there's other religions doing what they're doing now is absolutely absurd to even imply it. >> so ben, would you agree that many countries that practice female genital mult laitilation would you agree that many countries -- >> i think there's perversion, yes, but -- >> that doesn't make it right because christian countries do it. >> no, i wasn't making it an equivalence argument. he was asking what other religion does it. i'm saying here's another religion that does it. >> i will say this. name another religion that the predominant people celebrating the death of innocent people on the anniversary of 9/11 was all over the world in muslim communities? they celebrated it. >> ben, where's your evidence that the predominant amount of muslims celebrated 9/11? show me any evidence that proves it. any evidence. >> go look at all of the middle east. this is where i'm saying -- >> what is the basis of your -- no, ben, you're ignoring the question. >> one at a time, please. >> i'm basing it on the people that celebrate after the attacks of 9/11. >> you said the predominant muslim -- you said the
predominant -- you said most muslims, the predominant group. >> i said name another religion that does that. the only religion now that does that is the muslim religion. >> i'll 1307bd to both things. first the implication in your question which was that muslims celebrated 9/11 is not only offensive but it's incorrect and there's no evidence -- >> a lot of them did, though. a lot of them did. it is offensive. i agree with you. a lot of them did. >> ben, what is the source of your information? >> okay. let's talk about this. let's talk about this. because you're talking about the source of information. and this -- >> you're just making this up. >> this isn't necessarily celebrating 9/11 but there is a pew poll that talks about among muslims about sharia law and what sharia law means, stoning people and all that. here's what it says. it says that the percentage who favor the death penalty for converts, the majority of malaysia, afghanistan, pakistan, egypt. if we can put the numbers up. jordan, palestinian territory. many other countries don't have a majority but they still have a large number. so if you look at that, it may not be the majority of muslims, but that is a whole -- that's
millions and millions of people. is that a problem with religion in general or just with islam, marc? >> well, i think that's often a problem when you have a state mandated religion. and that's something i think we all find problematic. i would hate to see anyone killed for leaving a religion. i would hate to live in a country where that's the case. but there's not necessarily a one to one correlation between people who vote yes on that poll and who believe in state-sanctioned violence, who believe in terrorism, who believe in beheadings, who support isis because those -- if you go to those very same countries that believe that death is an appropriate for leaving the religion they also hate isis. they also don't believe in beheadings. they also -- >> not all of them. >> but is it fair as well -- hang on. is it fair to call sam harris and to call bill maher, who are noted liberals, to call them bigots because they are asking certain questions about islam? and they're atheists as well. to call them -- because they're having a discussion about islam on television? is that fair? >> well, i don't think being liberal shields you from being
lig o bigoted. there are plenty of bigotedling liberal ppz it's one thing to have a critique of religion, a critique of islam even. but to bring up fallacious information or unfactual information as a basis for promoting the idea that islam is inherently violent or probatically violent is problematic. it's not that they're racists. the idea is. >> this is the part that re8 almost makes my head explode, and it's this. you show a poll that is actually talking to millions of muslims about sharia law -- >> you have ten seconds. >> -- and a lot of them say they agree with it. and somehow many people in this country don't want to believe when they're telling the truth about this part of their religion that is incredibly violent to the point of death. think about that. >> that's going to have to be it. i'm sorry. and just for time purposes i'm up against a hard break. thank you, guys. we'll be right back.
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it is 11:00 p.m. on the east coast, and this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. if you think ebola is the biggest health crisis america faces, you'd better think again. a 4-year-old new jersey boy seemed perfectly healthy when he went to bed, but he never woke up. doctors say he died of enterovirus and it's spreading across the country. our medical team tells you how to protect your family. plus a shocking story of a predator in an elite brooklyn school. a teacher charged with sexual abuse, kidnapping, and endangering the welfare