tv CNNI Simulcast CNN October 15, 2014 12:00am-1:01am PDT
hello and welcome to our viewers in the united states and all around the world. i'm rosemary church. >> good to be with you. welcome back. i'm errol barnett. coming up -- authorities in hong kong move in against democracy protesters triggering new allegations of police brutality. a long-term campaign, the u.s. president warns of more t setbacks in the fight against isis as the dead and wounded pile up in a key battleground. >> there are many more graves here and the extent of the grief and the anger on display shows you the kind of problem they're going to face. >> also ahead for you, unprepared. new charges that hospitals in spain and the u.s. are not ready
to deal with the ebola epidemic. a lot of very important stories to get to for you. we're going to get to all of that. first we want to begin with new developments this hour in pretoria, south africa, oscar pistorius' sentencing hearing set to resume in the next 30 minutes. >> the olympic sprinter could be sent to prison after he was convicted of cull table homicide for killing his girlfriend reeva steenkamp last year. on tuesday, a social worker testifying for the defense told the court pistorius would have a tough time in prison being a double amputee. take a listen. >> disabled people should not be in prison? >> that is not what i said, my lady. i know of disabled in wheelchairs that are in prison. what i'm trying to say is it is more difficult, my lady. it cannot be disputed. >> now, it's difficult for
anybody. >> it's difficult but then it is some more difficult for a disabled person if it's going to be difficult for abled person how much more difficult must it be for a disabled person? >> important question. diana magnay joins us from outside the courthouse in pretoria, south africa. diana, the revelation from yesterday that oscar pistorius has been paying the victim's family, reeva steenkamp's family since the incident has really shocked and surprised an entire nation that's watching every twist and turn of this hearing. >> reporter: it really has, errol. it came out in the probation officer's testimony that he had been paying 6,000 around a month. that's around $600 to the steenkamp family since the incident began so 18 months or so and offered a lump sum at the end. i think the prosecutor dubbed the pit bull as you know was
surprised himself when he heard this testimony in court. the family of the steenkamps looked shocked and after the lunch adjournment nel came back and said they will pay every cent of this back and apparent ly mrs. steenkamp said she didn't want to accept any blood money but it is surprising seeing as they seemed quite happy to have accepted it until this came out and i think that is what you will see from the newspapers, which this story dominates, oscar's blood money is the headline in "the times." no to blood money in the pretoria news and the story goes on throughout the newspapers. let's not forget the steenkamps have simultaneously launched a civil lawsuit against oscar pistorius for emotional trauma and loss of earnings because the story goes they were really existing off the back of reeva steenkamp's earnings. and, you know, their story seems
to have changed slightly in the last few weeks since the verdict came down. until that time they were pretty neutral as indeed the probation officer testified. since that time they have come out strongly criticizing the verdict which you can understand. they hope to see pistorius found guilty of premeditated murder and that they have given some interviews to the press for which they have charged quite hefty sum. so all of this doesn't really put the steenkamps in a particularly good light as the trial gets under way today in pretoria, errol. >> diana, it's one of those things where we all watch it, front page news on the newspapers but what happens is what the judge decides will be oscar pistorius' punishment but still in many ways this is a trial being tried in the court of public opinion. di, we'll get back with you in about a half an hour. oscar pistorius is in the courthouse. as soon as things get under way we will reconnect with you. rosemary? >> all right, we want to turn now to the situation in hong
kong where it is tense but we have to say it is calm. earlier on wednesday, though, there were dramatic clashes between pro- -- between police and pro-democracy protesters. >> we haven't really seen things get this violent. 45 demonstrators were arrested, they've been occupying a major road near government headquarters and police cleared them out by dawn but accusations of police brutality are growing louder. >> yes, so let's bring in mow tee monisha. there was earlier violence that triggered allegations of police brutality and saw video of police kicking a man in his 30s. what has been the fallout from that so far?
>> reporter: yeah, well, we so far, rosemary, have had the police responding saying there will be an inquiry and the government has spoken about it. we've had an address from the security sector about that, as well. this has really thrown concern on the policy we thought was being adopted, one of minimal force. we have to wait for the outcome of that to know what went on here but we were able to speak to the lawyer of the victim, the victim is mr. ken dung, in his late 30s. he's a social worker. i asked his lawyer what happened. >> i think what happened was six or seven police officers took him aside to a corner whereby they punched him, they kicked him, when his hands were actually cuffed at the same time behind his back so there's no way he was posing any danger to
anyone, so it was unprovoked, i believe and unnecessary for anyone to use that kind of violence on an arrested person. >> reporter: was there anything he did to provoke police action? >> some say that he was pouring water on the police, but whatever he was doing, he was already arrested. his hands were cuffed and the proper procedure was to take him into custody and to deal with him in accordance with the law. >> reporter: so there was a little bit of detail from the lawyer dennis kwok about what was on the video but it was taken by a journalist from a local television station and in that video you can see that the victim's taken to a darkened corner, cuffed on his knees in what appears to be police being quite violent with him. there seems to even be one policeman who is keeping watch. that is certainly what appears on the video. meanwhile, in just off camera before we started that interview with dennis kwok we were talking
about it and asked if he had seen his client. he had gone to hospital and that he had sustained quite serious injuries so we will await that inquiry from the police. that will happen but amnesty international has also spoken about this and wants to see justice. the victim's lawyer also saying he doesn't just want for these officers to be suspended which is what happened. he wants to see them arrested. >> all right. man mani manisha tank, thank you. all agree that a military campaign alone won't defeat isis and that more needs to be done. still, u.s. president barack obama is defending the coalition's strategy so far. >> this is going to be a long-term campaign. there are not quick fixes involved. we're still at the early stages. as with any military effort there will be days of progress and there are going to be periods of setback.
but our coalition is united behind this long-term effort. >> isis fighters have been blasting their way through the city of kobani and now the syrian observatory for human rights says coalition warplanes carried out six more air strikes on and near the city into wednesday morning. that is in addition to 21 air strikes tuesday, the most carried out on kobani so far. meanwhile, over in iraq, the sunni isis militants say they're behind at least three deadly bombings targeting shiites in baghdad. one blast left at least four people dead and isis says one of them was a member of parliament. back in kobani, the kurdish fighters defending the city know all too well that air strikes are not enough. and many of them are paying with their lives. nick paton walsh reports. >> reporter: un prprecedented coalition air strikes helped the kurds take this hill west of
kobani. but at dusk they're under fire. this defender seems injures and stumbled. they rush to help. yet, his ordeal is beginning as another hell awaits the injured. a flurry of ambulances tells those anxiously awaiting at the hospital that the border is now open. injuries, some that seem days old, most want nothing filmed. the dead brought in around the back. the turkish army mostly lets people cross but sometimes closes the border says one doctor who left kobani ten days ago. sometimes the army closes it for security, he says, but most of the time it just seems arbitrary. the worst thing i remember inside was seeing a woman, a local governor of kobani, call her sister but an isis fighter answered the phone. she passed out in front of me.
to some who emerge it is too late. two young fighters here in turn where others have been before them and others will surely follow. the dead bullet wounds were survivable claims the activist who watched their bodies in the morgue. they died from blood loss as they waited for the turkish army to let them cross the border, he says. do you think they wanted these men to die? >> yes, definitely, i feel the turkish government wants them to die. >> reporter: there are many more graves ready here and the extent of the grief and the anger on display shows you the kind of problem ankara will face if kobani does fall to isis. dark falls, the ambulances are still coming. nick paton walsh, cnn. >> u.s. secretary of state john
kerry says a final deal between iran and the west on tehran's nuclear program is well within reach. his remarks come a day after iran's president said he's confident a deal will be struck within the next 40 days. representatives from the u.s., iran and the eu are set to meet today in vienna. they've set a november 24th deadline to reach an agreement. well, new startling numbers are out about the ebola virus. sobering predictions from the world health organization.
the leaders of france, germany, italy, the uk and u.s. are set to discuss the ebola epidemic in the coming hours. >> president barack obama has been urging the international community to step up its response to the ongoing outbreak. >> the u.s. centers for disease control and prevention will now send response teams within ours to any hospital to help treat ebola cases. now, this comes after a texas nurse contracted the virus after treating an ebola patient who later died. nina pham had been wearing protective gear. >> a nurse's union says guidelines at that hospital were constantly changing and, in fact, there were no protocols for this kind of thing in place. cnn has asked the hospital to
comment but has yet to hear back. meantime, the world health organization warns thousands of new cases could develop and soon. >> it's impossible to look in a glass bowl and say we'll have this many or that many but anticipate the number of cases occurring per week by that time is going to be somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 a week. you know, it could be higher, could be lower but somewhere in that ballpark. >> and the w.h.o. says the mortality rate is soaring. >> it's killing 70% of the people who develop it. that is up from 50%. so far, more than 4400 people have died out of nearly 9,000 cases. >> well, the u.n. special envoy on ebola is calling for more patient beds, diagnostic lab, protective suits and vehicles as well as training and burial team. >> anthony banbury said it got a
head start and running faster than the evers to contain it. >> we either stop ebola now or we face it entirely unprecedented situation for which we do not have a plan. the very best way to protect the people of noninfected countries is by helping the people of guinea, liberia and sierra leone to stop ebola now where it is. >> and there have been nine confirmed cases of ebola in europe. >> yeah, including a spanish nurse's aide. she is in serious condition but officials say she is actually improving. she contracted it after helping to treat a missionary who later died. >> a u.n. worker who was being treated in germany has died. the sudanese man became ill while working in liberia. we are joined by cnn's al goodman in madrid and fred pleitgen in berlin.
let's start with spain first. al, do bring us up to date on the condition of the nurse's aide teresa romero ramos, who weeks after she contracted ebola. >> reporter: hi, rosemary. she's in this hospital behind me and officials are somewhat optimistic. they're not -- she's reached the two-week point and they say that based on other ebola cases if a patient makes it this far they're on the correct side of the curve. she's not out of the woods yet but the amount of the virus in her bloodstream has been reduced because she's fighting back with antibodies. on the policy front we can confirm the u.s. ambassador to spain in a television interview with a spanish television network on tuesday night confirmed that the united states has asked spain for use of two spanish military bases in the south of spain where the u.s. already has troops stationed to
allow the united states to transit troops and material here in through those bases en route to the ebola-stricken zones in west africa and to bring troops out on the way back to the united states and spain already has granted on a case-by-case basis some of those stopovers and gives you an idea of the expanding fight against ebola. the spanish bases are among the bases that the united states is trying to use as it ramps up its fight in terms of logistics setting up field hospitals, this kind of thing. the united states is trying to assure spain that these will not -- these flights will not be carrying ebola patients and that the troops involved will not be directly giving medical care to the ebola patients but another issue for this country to continue -- to consider and at this hour the prime minister of spain is in parliament is expected to be peppered with questions about ebola. so a lot of action on this front while the patient teresa romero
is said to be slightly improving. rosemary. >> you mentioned the patient. she is being looked after by doctors and nurses at the hospital where she worked and, of course, we know at this point we understand the way she contracted ebola was by taking off her protective gear and touching her face. so what is being done to ensure that those who are now caring for her don't end up contracting ebola, as well? what are they saying and what are they telling those doctors and nurses about protecting themselves from here on? >> reporter: well, we're at a really different place a week on. she came to the hospital monday of last week and many said a chaotic response by the government and health officials, now, the european cdc, centers for disease control had officials here for three days until last saturday and said this facility did not have the right setup and the right facility to deal with this ebola
crisis but that's been changed and they are working to get that up to speed. they say that the workers, medical workers are wearing the right kinds of suits and, remember, she was on a team that treated two other ebola patients, spanish missionaries who were in africa, came back and died here and doctors who are treating her know her and say she's helping them when they're trying to help her so that to reduce their risk. rosemary. >> incredible. all right, al goodman reporting there from madrid. many thanks to you. >> want to cross over to germany. u.n. worker being treated for ebola has died there. another individual we understand is being treated. fred pleitgen is watching all this. after hearing al and all of spain's issues, you know, is there anything that germany is doing that other nations could learn from? >> reporter: well, i'm not sure that germany is doing anything that other nations could learn from. however, the germans are being specific as to what they're doing and they are releasing a lot of the details as to how
these patients are being treated, also, of course, because the german population is concerned, i wouldn't say it's afraid of ebola but concerned about these patients being treated in germany. a lot of details were released from the hospital that was treating this 56-year-old sudanese u.n. worker who died in the night from monday to tuesday. the operators there said at all times he was in an isolation unit all by himself. at any given point in time 24 hours a day there were at least six medical staff caring for this person and all specially trained to deal with infectious diseases and this is where the specifics set in. the hospital says that per hour, the staff used anywhere between 20 and 30 pairs of single use medical gloves. in the course of a single day they went through 100 protective suits while treating this patient and these protective suits were complete liquid proof. the staff at any given point in time was using respirators to keep away from the air and the isolation unit was air locked as
well to prevent any sort of contamination from reaching outside that zone. one of the interests things i found when reading the details of what the hospital did is that they also said that the workers were not allowed to take the suits off themselves. they had to be helped by other people to make sure that every single step of decontamination and taking off those suits was followed and then cross-checked by another member to absolutely make sure that the ebola virus did not get out of the isolation zone. so they were very specific about this and certainly is something that does calm a lot of people down here in germany. the german government says that at this point in time they don't believe that there's any sort of public health risks by ebola patients coming to germany. the germans have also said on top of the person who is still being treated in frankfurt who has been treated there since october 3rd, the germans are more than willing to take in additional ebola patients and say that they have more than enough capacity to treat further patients that could be flown in
here from the nations that are currently affected by ebola, errol. >> just seems as though germany has many more special procedures put in place for every single step of decontamination. fred pleitgen joining us from berlin, just past 9:20 in the morning. aid organizations responding to the ebola crisis are asking for help. >> to see how you can contribute, our website has a list of charities working to contain the disease and you can find it at cnn.com/impact. now, rosemary is getting a bit of a kick out of this. springtime in australia but part of the country is looking more like winter. ivan cabrera standing by with the latest on this next. everyone talks icare, about what happens when you turn sixty-five. but, really, it's what you do before that counts. see, medicare doesn't cover everything. only about eighty percent of part b medical costs. the rest is on you. [ male announcer ] consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan
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make 20 or more purchases in a monthly billing period and earn 20% more rewards. is this nut-free? it's membership that rewards you for the things you already buy, every day. what's your 20? a late season winter storm hit australia's state of new south wales tuesday with flash flooding, severe wins and even some snow. meteorologist ivan cabrera joins us with more on this and, of course, ivan, to explain to our american viewers the reason why we're making so much of this is it's six week as way from summer in australia so what is going on. >> we're in the middle of spring
so this is not what you would expect. of course, also, we must say it was not snowing in sydney. it is in the mountains to the west of sydney but impressive nevertheless because we are so late into the season here. behind me let's check in on the reports in sydney, we had plenty of action as rosemary mentioned we had a little of everything, flash flooding, frequent lightning with torrential downpours in three hours picking up 75 millimeters of rainfall. that wreaked havoc across sydney and, well, flooded many areas then we had wind gusts in excess of 100 kilometers per hour so that was going on in the coast and blue mountains what we had were accumulations of anywhere from 10 to 20 centimeters of snowfall. so let's take you from sydney and then we'll head up to the blue mountains and hopping kangaroos. there's the lightning. we had numerous folks without power as a result of that and then, of course, people trying to get around were not able to do so because rail service was suspended because of the flash flooding impacting the trains
there and also it was just difficult to get around on the roads. they were washed away as a result of, well, 3 inches of rainfall in just 3 hours. significant event there. now, let's take you further to the west up to the blue mountains where we had the snow falling there and just impressive to see the kangaroos there. that snow will be melting rather quickly. that's not going to last all that long but how annoying is this in the middle of spring to clear your car from snowfall. summer is six weeks away and we'll just have to wait. behind me the storm departing headed up to new zealand and bring storminess to them. can behr canberra, as well. a quick passing shower that would be about it. 60 degrees in melbourne. sydney, today, about 22 which is where we should be and back to 19 on friday. want to leave you with some video of japan of the snow that
fell because of a typhoon, well, it wasn't a typhoon by the time it got to hokkaido but on the back side of that, the cold air that got pulled in, look at this. snowfall, so here winter hasn't started, right, so we're on the other side but early season snowfall whils tchlt there, all the place here. so there it is. >> wacky weather. >> indeed. >> across the globe. you are covering it all. thanks so much, ivan. >> thanks, ivan. still ahead for you on cnn, a court weighs whether to send the man known as the blade runner to prison. live to south africa to find out about today's sentencing hearing for oscar pistorius set to resume in minutes. stay with us. we're in seattle to see which 100 calorie black cherry greek yogurt tastes best. definitely that one. that one's delicious. it's yoplait! what? i love yoplait! the other one is chobani. really. i like this one better.
you are still watching cnn. we appreciate that. i'm errol barnett. >> i'm rosemary church and we do want to check the headlines for you this hour. the hong kong government will investigate an alleged police beating. video posted online appears to show plainclothes officers kicking and pumping a pro-democracy demonstrator on tuesday while others watched. the victim's lawyer says his client was arrested for illegal assembly and obstruction and remains in police custody. in syria isis fighters blasting their way through the city of kobani have drawn new coalition air strikes. the syrian observatory for human rights says warplanes hit six more targets in and near the city into wednesday morning. that is in addition to 21 air strikes tuesday. the most carried out on kobani so far. the sentencing hearing for oscar pistorius should resume any minute now in pretoria,
south africa. in actual fact we're looking at live pictures there and it is under way. the olympic track star could face prison time. we're going to have a listen now. >> but that would have been done in the normal scope of their duties as an official from the department of welfare. >> our social development that, is correct, my lady. >> good. >> now, as an official within the department, certainly you could approach officials in other departments like correctional services to get to your facts about conditions. >> i do not understand the question. i'm not sure what -- >> you're an official of social welfare. you want to know what's going on in a prison and what facilities they have. you can officially request that
information from another department because we all in the government service. >> that is, in fact, correct, my lady. my lady, i did, in fact, i spoke to the official in pretoria as indicated in my report and i've also got the latest report on the circumstances in the prisons, so additional information can be obtained. >> let us just deal with that. from reading your report you found the pretoria prison and spoke to a welfare officer. >> that is correct. >> officially i mean writing a letter saying i am here, i want you to respond and give me the detail -- you never thought about doing that. >> my lady, not in this particular case, no. >> have you done it in other cases? >> i have done it, my lady, and they are not allowed to give
details through which may or might expose the department to a certain extent so information and the names are not allowed to make available. >> can i ask you, i've asked you now a question. have you officially in writing requested information, you said yes. am i right? in other matters? >> in other matters that is, my lady. >> did you not get a response? >> i couldn't get a response, my lady, because i was told that they cannot be exposed for purpose of the court case. >> did you -- but i mean you can ask the department at any level. there must be somebody in another department that can give you that information. because they're here at court today. why would they not give it to you. >> i don't maybe have the authority to just summon them to come to court, my lady, but i have approached them and i have asked in the past. >> but let us see what you used for this case. remember i asked you if you
would indicate where you got the information from and you said from the internet and you referred me to a web page, am i right. >> that is correct, my lady. >> yesterday after court you identified the web page s that correct? >> that is correct, my lady. >> now, the web page that you identified, that deals with a speech made by the general secreta secretary. >> can you identify the web page for me, please? >> my lady, yes. it's www.csvr.org, o-r-g, dot zeda forward slash vits forward
slash again conf, conference, paps, confpap schs, forward sla vitboy. >> vit? >> vitboi.hdm. now, that particular web page deal with a speech by a mr mr. abbey wittboi, the general secretary of -- >> that is correct, my lady. >> not a senior official in the department of correctional services but the general secretary of the union. >> i take note, my lady.
>> well, you see, take note -- when was that? when did he make the speech? do you know? >> it's -- it was at a conference even to 8, february, 2005, my lady. >> 2005, it's nine years ago -- >> six years ago, my lady -- nine years ago. i'm sorry. apologies. thank you, my lady >> that's nine years ago. a speech made by the general secretary of pop crew and that is what you put in your report. so this web page reference, have you used it before in other reports? >> i have, my lady. >> the statute you refer to the court deals with stats of -- you
say at page 38, the 237 operational presence provide accommodation to 114. >> you are rushing. you are now with exhibit wewe. >> indeed, my lady. >> page 38. >> indeed, my lady. >> okay. >> yes. >> and what stats are those if you say currently, is it today or what are you trying to tell the court. >> it was during the time of the completion of this report, my lady. >> and you got that from where? so that's october 2014. >> no, not my report. it was obtained from an extraction from this article, my lady. >> oh, from judge -- that was in 2008. >> that's correct, my lady. >> okay, so the stats that you give this court is 2008 and
2005. anything more recent than that? >> no, only the one part which was also in my report, my lady. >> chikesa, 200. >> that's correct, my lady. >> anything more recent than 2008 as far as the districts are concerned in your reporting? >> no, my lady, except that the figures have increased, in fact, and but i did not acquire the recent figures. >> and conditions have improved or don't you know? >> not as far as the latest report, my lady. >> not as far as numbers are concerned, conditions in prisons or don't you know since 2005? >> not as far as the report from the inspector of 11, 2012, my daddy. >> we will deal with that. can i just also ask you the general secretary of pop crew,
you use the his speech and you extracted the paragraphs at page 39 >> that's correct, my lady. >> the main concern of mr mr. wittboi at that conference was what? what did he address, in fact? >> the key factors, my lady, were the crisis in the prison system. >> because of what? what was his main -- >> there were a few various factors mentioned which was incompetence, overcrowding and the shortage of staff and understaff. >> he said, his main concern and the court will read it, the unwillingness or inability to
appoint entry level staff like a union person would do. that was his main concern. have you read it again. >> i'm just looking at the article. some of the factors mentioned as well was what i have said. >> but that was in 2005. >> that is correct, my lady. >> now, in all the years that you've been doing and -- doing this kind of work, certainly you know act, correctional services act -- >> no, my lady, i'm not a specialist in the field. i'm informed of the acts but i don't know the acts. >> but at least let's see what you know. you know that a sentenced prisoner can in writing apply for a single cell. >> my lady, ki not comment on that. i do not know the act. >> you see, what i find very
interesting is that you would want to come to court and deal with conditions in the prisons but you don't know how prisons are run and what the act dictates. how can you do that? >> my lady, i can give an opinion to the honorable court concerning experience that i've obtained, knowledge gained and information obtained but i cannot deal on act which is not part of my framework. >> do you know -- the act that is section 31a would say that a person can apply, section 31c, in summary indicates that upon admission a medical officer or doctor can also dictate that a person be kept in a single cell because of any medical condition or vulnerability. >> i don't know, my lady.
>> there's also an assessment in section 38 of every prisoner that would arrive to ascertain the vulnerability of the prisoner and where based he could be placed. you know that. >> i take note, my lady. >> and that there are regulations that would indicate that no medical devices may be removed from any prisoner without a directive from a doctor or a medical officer. >> i take note -- >> i know that you are taking note and i'm worried we come to court as probation officer s an private prisoners and complain about the conditions in prisons but don't know this. that's what is bothering me. why don't you know this? >> my lady, i'm not supposed to know the acts of each and every department. it is not within my framework or
that i am supposed to know. >> but certainly, madam, you shouldn't know anything about what -- but you should know everything about prisons because you commenting and giving opinions on prisons and you don't. >> i can give an opinion, my lady, on experience and what has happened to me and on what i read. but i cannot give an opinion on the act. >> okay, let's -- do you know anything about the watt paper on correctional services 2005. >> no, my lady. >> you wouldn't know there's a specific section in that dealing with prisoners with disabilities and how -- >> no, my lady. >> you also don't know that the department of correctional services has and follow a policy on disabilities, you don't know that, that they have a policy on it. >> no, i take note, my lady. >> you've not in preparation for
this by telling the court that your opinion is that this accused cannot be incarcerated for certain reasons or impressionened, you never asked the department if they have a policy, how they treat disabled people. you never thought of just asking. >> i have consulted within that. it's in my report. i've already referred to that. >> you've consulted with a person on a phone that's all. >> that is correct, my lady. >> you don't know the person, not seen the person at all. >> that is correct, my lady. >> you've made one phone call, a person answered. a person identified themselves and you had an interview. >> that's correct, my lady. >> you verify anything about that interview? >> yes, my lady. what i've got in my report. >> no, did you verify if the person was exactly -- in the position that she said she was. >> no, my lady. as she did not want to be exposed for purpose of the court. >> so what we have, we come to the high court. and we say, i picked up a phone,
i fined the prisons, i spoke to somebody and this is what the somebody said. that's all you can say. >> that's correct, my lady. >> you can't say that -- you can't tell this court that this is what the position of that person within the correctional facilities -- you can't. >> no, my lady. except that i phoned and asked to speak to the social work department that the lady identified herself but we should not to be exposed for purpose of the court. >> i see. then the -- the witness i intend to call will indicate to you that there is not even the slightest possibility that the accu accused prostheses will be taken away from him. there are people in wheelchairs
at present. do you know that. >> i know that, my lady. >> the wheelchairs are not taken away. do you disagree? >> i have not asked but not that i know of, my lady. >> do you agree that a person in a wheelchair is more vulnerable than a person on prosthetic legs? >> i cannot dispute disabilities, vulnerability, my lady. >> now, if a sentenced prisoner or any person in a facility would have a complaint, what would he be able to do about complaints? do you know? >> no, my lady. >> you see, i find that so, so irresponsible, madam, that you would come to court venture an opinion on the department of
correctional services but don't know anything about that department. and you employed by another state department. >> i can only give what i could have obtained, my lady but since we have an expert that's going to testify those facts will be placed before the court. >> no, you see, madam, we go to court as probation officers to courts daily. the preparation or lack of preparation, that is what's bothering me and that's why i'm testing you, why would you not go and find this out? >> my lady, ki not find out everything from a specific department because what is important for one person on one aspect might not be for another person and it might also vary from prison to prison and could differ from day to day so i do thought have the policies or the laws concerning the prison environment. >> you know, madam, i read your
report. you have a view of what happens in a prison. you testify as a professional but you don't know -- you have not verified it. and that is worrying. why don't you verify it before you give evidence in a high court? >> my lady, that would depend on what i need to verify, because that would differ from court to court also. i can speak from a lot of experience and i can speak from a lot of what i have obtained through my years of experience but i cannot know what would be required to test concerning a specific matter. >> let us make it much more practical and deal with the local prison in pretoria, pretoria central prison. you've said you've been there. >> i've been there for visits, my lady. >> visits means you would visit a client in the facility that's made available, not in the
prison or am i wrong? >> that is correct, my lady. >> do you know that the pretoria central prison has a hospital section, i've been corrected this second, it's health care facility. health facilities, that's the better word for in that pretoria central has a health facility. >> yes, my lady. >> that people could be kept in a health facility. >> that is correct. >> that there are single cell -- that they have baths and showers. >> i'm not aware of the baths, my lady. i'm aware of the showers. >> you see, you go further. you say there are no baths. that's what you did. >> i did say that, my lady. >> why would you do that if i tell you that a mere inquiry would have indicated to you that
there are baths. >> i did inquire, my lady, if i was not informed, i cannot assist the court on that. >> okay. can i just ask you then so the lady that you spoke to that we don't know who she was lied to you. >> no, i never said she lied to me, my lady. >> she failed to give you thi things, information. >> not all of the information, all the proper information that, is correct. >> on what did you base your factual statement there are no baths? >> on the visit to the prison where i saw no baths, my lady and that was the only one that i could have access to. >> madam, the irresponsibility to put in a report, i visited the prison two years ago, only a single prison, now i make a statement about prisons in this country by saying there are no
baths. how can you do that? how do you do that? >> i take note, my lady. >> take note of what? >> of the fact that there is a bath in pretoria central in the medical facility. >> but i'm asking you how can you do that? how can you put in a report that it's a fact and you haven't verified it. that's whey want -- >> if i was not informed of it, my lady, i cannot put it in for the honorable court. >> why would you not say, i don't know if there have bath there is. why do you put it as a fact? >> because i was informed, my lady, they do not have facilities -- >> who told you that. >> the specific social worker i spoke to could not assist me on confirming that they would be able to accommodate the accuse sfwld you see, again, madam, it's a long answer and not answering the question. so i'm going to ask it again. who informed you that there are no baths? just answer that question, that one. who informed of you that. >> the person that i spoke with
that's a social worker, my lady. >> so you asked her the question. >> that's correct. >> and she lied to you. >> no, i don't say she lied. >> but she told you there are no baths. >> i did not specifically ask her are there baths, i asked her if there were facilities for a person with the accused's disability. >> madam, this record will be -- two questions i asked who did you ask if there are any baths. you said the person i spoke to. why would you do that. >> not specifically a bath, my lady. >> i asked you specifically a bath, madam. >> then i understood the question incorrect. >> let's start again. did you ask any person if there are baths in the prison? >> no, my lady. >> why did you then put as a fact that there are no baths in prison? >> because i was informed of the fact that there are no bath as valuable, my lady. >> no, i don't understand that. i really don't. if you never asked a person, oh,
do you know what, perhaps i forgot to ask one more question. were you ever informed by anybody that there are no baths in prison, did anybody volunteer or whatever, did any person ever inform you that there are no baths in prison? >> yes, my lady. >> who was that? >> my lady, again, not specifically pertaining to the question of this lady but all the interviews which i have conducted i have never been informed in the 28 years that there are a bath available in the prison. >> now, you see again you say i've never been informed. i asked you if somebody told you that there are no baths answer this question, madam, we went through this yesterday. >> and we have been watching and listening to the sentencing hearing day three in actual fact of that hearing for oscar pistorius in pretoria and, of course, we know there that he was convicted of culpable homicide and we heard the voice
there, we didn't see her but heard the voice of pistorius' probation officer and she was being harangued by the prosecutor, gerrie nel. he was getting frustrated with her and as we watch the sentencing hearing, of course, we won't know necessarily today. we might not know until next week what sentence -- >> the prosecutor making the point that south african prisons aren't as bad as the social worker made it seem but this will continue for a number of hours and days in fact in pretoria. >> i'm rosemary church. >> and i'm errol barnett. "early start" is next for those watching in the sdmrudz for ow viewers everyone else, stay tuned for "newsroom." >> have a great day. medicare eligibility? anng don't put off checking out your medicare options until 65. now is a good time to get the ball rolling. medicare only covers about 80% of part b medical costs. the rest is up to you.
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