tv CNN Newsroom CNN October 25, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PDT
school shooting in washington. you're looking at live pictures right now at the providence regional medical center at washington state where at any moment the hospital is expected to update us on the conditions of the wounded students. we'll take you there live, as soon as it begins. plus we're learning more about the shooter's weapon and one heroic woman. breathing a sigh of relief, another health care worker tests negative for ebola. but now there are questions about a new quarantine policy going into place in two states. plus, terrorism. that's had an they're now calling the nypd hatchet attack. all right. let's begin with the school shooting in washington state yesterday. we'll get to the hospital update as soon as it begins, for that briefing. today, the sheriff's department said it has completed the on-scene investigation and officials have recovered a handgun. we're also learning a school employee stopped the shooter! one witness described what he sa
saw. >> she grabbed his arm, it happened in seconds. >> we'll get to that press conference as soon as it begins. let's check in with dan simon, live for us right now in marysville. dan, what else are we expecting to learn today from investigators? >> hi, fredricka. that press conference is coming up. we're standing in front of the hospital. we should tell you that there are two patients here, two girls. their conditions are said to be extremely critical after being shot at very close range. you talked about that handgun that was recovered. that was a 40 caliberberretta handgun, high-capacity weapon. and police recovered it at the scene. they're also telling us, police are, that they interviewed more than 100 student witnesses. obviously a lot of people saw this shooting. again, just to reiterate what happened, this occurring at 10:30 yesterday morning. this is where the shooter walks into the cafeteria. this was not a random shooting,
fredricka. he goes to a specific table, knows who these people are, according to the witnesses. in fact, two of the people who were shot were his relatives, said to be his cousins. so, it was clear that he was targeting a specific group of people. fred? >> all right. dan simon, thanks so much. we'll check back with you. again, that press conference likely to happen at any moment now at the hospital where two of the students are being treated and, at last check, in intensive care. jaylen fryberg liked guns and hunting. on twitter, his posts showed he was upset and may have gone through a breakup. he posted things like, quote, it breaks me. it actually does. i know it seems like i'm sweating it off, but i'm not. end quote. his final tweet, saying this quote. it won't last.
it will never last. end quote. so, i'm joined now by cnn analyst and clinical psychologist jeff gardere. good to see you gentlemen. at first it seems like a teenager upset about a breakup. that's relatively normal, quite common. at what point, though, does something like this seem to be a real warning flag for something much more serious? >> well, certainly from the twitter account, we saw that he was very upset. there might have been some sort of a love triangle going on. he felt he may have been betrayed by someone who he called his brother. i guess who may have been a friend or relative. not quite sure at this point. he seemed to be obsessed with the girl that was taken by someone else, who got together with someone else. so, we're talking about a very intense love triangle. but, you know what? fredricka, things like this do happen with young people. it happens with people.
you lose someone, but what is the difference here? perhaps this was someone who had a lot of anger, a lot of rage, may have been very, very depressed and there was not some sort of a clinical intervention. >> jeff, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we've been waiting for this press conference to begin at the hospital in providence. it's just getting under way. i'll try to get back with you, jeff and tom, in a minute. let's listen in to the providence hospital. >> to begin the long process of healing that we're all going to be undergoing. what i can do today is update you on the identities of the patients, their conditions and their ages. i have a statement from one of the families that they would like to read and then i would like to finish with a few comments about the care that we've been able to deliver here at providence regional. so, if you don't mind. we have two patients here at prorch dense regional, both
young women, both 14 years old. one's name is shaylee, who goes by the name of shay to her friends, and she remains in critical condition. gia, also 14, also remains in critical condition. we can get those spellings for you later. the soriano family asks we make a statement on their behalf. they said our family is in shock of the we appreciate your thoughts and your prayers during this tragedy. our hearts go out to the other victims and to their families. in the meantime, please allow us our privacy as we deal with this tragedy. and i will tell you that the families are at the bedside. we have made accommodation for broader extended family and for friends in parts of the hospital. a request right now is that the media and public respect the
family's privacy and i'm sure that you all will. i want to thank again this community coming together and the staff and doctors at this hospital. literally scores of staff turned out yesterday suddenly when they were called upon. we had about ten operations going on. we had about 70 people in the emergency department. we were delivering babies, taking care of about 400 patients when we were suddenly called upon to take care of these four young people who came our way so quickly. the staff performed absolutely flawlessly. the doctors rushed to the bedsides and i will tell you, i have never been prouder of this institution than i was yesterday. and, again, i want to thank our community partners, fairfax, the everett clinic and others for sending counselors over to support our staff and support the families who have been
affected. thank you. [ inaudible ] >> what you're doing for these two girls and what all that entailed? >> it's mainly surgery is fairly straightforward. it's debridement of tissue and doing surgery in a way that allows for the brain to swell and then contract later on. i will say that the next three days are going to be crucial. these young people are being monitored moment by moment. they have a nurse at their bedside constantly. a doctor is very nearby constantly. all the ne ruchlt o. surgeons will be rounding. we won't know for the next two or three days. let me get those.
i want to make sure i have them here. okay. s-h-a-y-l-e-e. last name is c-h-u-c-k. >> the names of the two young ladies, 14-year-old girls who are being treated there at providence regional, both of them remaining in critical condition. the two are among four being hospitalized, the other two at another hospital. one day after that school shooting in marysville, washington state. let's continue our conversation. dan simon is actually outside that hospital, providence regional. tom fuentes is back with us, along with jeff gardere as well. tom, let me go to you. when investigators try to figure out why this happened, the real motive here, while we hear about school shootings and sadly this country has become way too familiar with them, this one doesn't seem to be in line with typically what we have
experienced, you know, the gunman being an outcast, someone who had been bullied. that had been the pattern. now we're talking about somebody who, many have described, jaylen fryberg as very popular, crowned the homecoming prince last week. his sentiments were very public on twitter, being frustrated about the possible breakup with a girlfriend, what do investigators do with this kind of information? how do people really kind of wrap their heads around what is happening in our schools today and how our young people resolving conflicts? >> the problem here is if you're talking about somebody who has mental health issues, if they're suffering from depression, it's a very insidious disease. >> tom, i apologize for interrupting. they're trying to address these very issues at the hospital right now. let's go back to that, then i want you to resume your thought after we hear from this young
lady at providence regional. >> we need to start thinking about this without thinking about my own children. they're out of high school. but i talked to one of my daughters last night and we talked through what would it have been like if this had happened at her high school. and we were both crying. and i think there's been a lot of tears among our staff, a lot of people are drained. that's why it's so important we bring in lots of folks to help them out. >> can you tell me what -- [ inaudible ] >> i don't know. that, i don't know. >> to recap what their injuries were when they came in yesterday? >> i don't know the specifics. they were both head injuries. >> they were both in critical condition or -- >> they're both very critical. they're both receiving similar monitoring and -- [ inaudible ]
>> i think prayers right now. i would not -- i think both families need as much privacy with their loved ones as possible. i would hope that people would honor that at this point. i think we're still at the stage where prayers and hopes are the best things folks can offer. >> okay, thank you for coming today. and we will not be having any more press briefings. >> joanne roberts there in everett, washington. back to your thought, tom, about what you do, what do school systems, what do parents -- how do you digest this kind of information when this profile seems very different from what we have experienced in recent years as it relates to deadly school shootings? >> the problem is it's hard to
look at someone and really know hays going on inside their mind. here is someone good looking, popular, athlete, elected to the homecoming court, being the most popular freshman in his class. but yet on the inside, every little insult adds up. and you can't cope with it. or the rejection of a girl that he wants to date adds up. and these things that normal children, normal adults, for that matter, learn to cope with rejection and loss and hurt. and try to deal with it as part of the maturing process. but if an individual has mental health issues, such as, you know, severe depression on the inside, it may not show on the outside. but to them, they're ill. and these issues are adding up inside their mind. >> and, jeff, that's something that we have talked a lot about in recent months and years, too, mental illness. we don't know if that's the case here. but how do we help our young people? it does seem like that is the bottom line. how do we help our young people
deal with angst, deal with rejection, or conflict without harming themselves or others? >> we have to know what's happening on their facebook account, twitter accounts and open communication with them about what may be going on and offer them the resources and the school should offer resources to be able to talk about the issues. one of the things that mr. fuentes said that is absolutely true, there may have been some undiagnosed depression. as you said, fredricka, also this is a person who was the homecoming prince and had this -- seems to have this perfect life. but it is that kind of very rigid kind of life where that person feels they really can't talk about what the issues are or they can't address it in a way, because everyone sees them as being so popular. so, the emotional insult of feeling some sort of a betrayal
in their own view becomes ten times worse. and if the intervention is not made, then that person sinks further and further into a depression to the point of becoming homicidal and suicidal. >> how terribly sad. dan simon is outside that providence regional hospital and, dan, we just heard that press conference and the doctor very gingerly talking about how the family members want some space and how they are trying to deal with this, as these two young ladies, 14 years old, are in critical condition there at the hospital. do we have any idea whether their conditions have improved within the past 24 hours or is it the same when they were admitted? >> sounds like it's the same. they did some surgery. they have severe head injuries. as dr. joanne roberts noted, it will be two or three days before doctors really have any sort of indication in terms of whether
they'll ultimately survive this horrific incident. you're talking about two young women who were shot at very close range by a very powerful weapon, a .40 caliber beretta handgun. this is very touch and go at the moment, fred. >> and then, tom, how will investigators go about trying to determine a motive? how important is it for investigators to know that at this juncture? >> well, it's important in trying to prevent future acts, as jeff mentioned. they'll be looking at his social media, twitter, facebook, e-mails. they'll be talking to friends, classmates, family, anybody who knew him well to see, you know what exactly has been going on in his life recently or his home life. has he been bullied as he grew up? was he receiving racial insuls,s let's say, over a long period of time? we've heard that he just was in a fight with a teammate on the football team recently and was
suspended and that that might have had something to do with insults from the other person. so, those are the kind of issues that he may have been coping with his whole life but not coping well. and, again, it adds up and adds up. and he may have felt that this girl, in her rejection of him, maybe she and her other friends were laughing at him and he felt humiliation and rejection and finally reached this point where he was going to do something about it in the best way he can. of course, we have a classic situation possibly of the availability of guns. in this case, his father's gun. we see him photographed with the hunting rifle, very powerful weapon in his hand saying three months ago that's the best birthday present i ever received. so, he's in a gun culture. he's proficient, as we see. as he went up to these kids from behind and shot them in the back of their heads with a powerful handgun. and that's the result of this. so, you could have mental illness and available firearms
all at once, again, causing a tragedy. i don't want to blame the guns on this. we have the kid in pennsylvania a couple of months ago stab a dozen classmates with a knife in the hallway. it can be another weapon of choice also. just the aspect that we don't know and may never really know what triggered this in his mind. >> sad situation. all right, tom fuentes, jeff gardere, dan simon, thanks to all you gentlemen. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. coming up at 12:30 eastern time, we'll be joined live by dr. joanne roberts, who are you just heard from at providence regional medical center on the condition of those two 14-year-old girls. we'll be right back. narrator: these are the tennis shoes skater kid: whoa narrator: that got torture tested by teenagers and cried out for help. from the surprised designers. who came to the rescue with a brilliant fix male designer: i love it narrator: which created thousands of new customers for the tennis shoes that got torture tested
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cnn's senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen joins us live now. what is dr. spencer's status right now at bellevue? >> reporter: what we've heard is that he is stable and he is able to chat with his team there and he's also talking on his cell phone. so it sounds, all in all given that he has ebola that he's doing quite well. it's a testament to getting help quickly. new york and new jersey says when doctors and nurss go off to africa to help ebola patients when they arrive home, they will be quarantined, a mandatory quarantined for these works are, even though they're unable to spread the skis, a lot of public health folks i've talked to say it's not the right move, it's going to make things worse, that people won't get the care they need because people won't go and
help and more africans with ebola will come to the united states. >> the whole definition of the mandatory quarantine versus the voluntary quarantine, it's seeming to be a little interchangeable these days, if these people are under mandatory quarantine, does it mean they'll stay at their homes or will they be at a particular facility in new york and new jersey if you meet the criteria that you just spelled out? >> you know what, we don't know. that's one of the things that's a little strange about this whole thing is that governors christie and cuomo said we're having a mandatory quarantine but didn't explain how it would work. how do you get the doctors and nurses from the airport to their home if they're going to quarantine them? you don't want them in a cab, right? a quarantine means you should be alone. what if they live elsewhere in the country? do you keep them here? there are a lot of questions here and no one's answering
them. do you post a police officer outside of everyone's homes? are you going to pick a hotel? are you going to build a tent for these people? it's completely unclear what they intend. i have been calling officials from new york and new jersey from the governor's office on down and getting no answers at all. >> and is this immediate? >> they didn't even really think to spell out when this would start happening. it's interesting, just to make things more confusing, they quarantine this nurse, who you were just talking about, and we're told from a friend of hers who is a consultant who is on cnn and she said she didn't even have a fever. why are they giving her an ebola test if she didn't have a fever and she wasn't ill? it seems likes there's a lot of mushiness here. >> okay. let's bring in our panel. dr. jim campbell is a vaccine expert at the university of
maryland school of medicine and elizabeth cohen is back with us now. dr. campbell, let me get your thoughts. dr. gounder, i spoke with her earlier about whether this mandatory quarantine would be useful and she said it would only cause more problems. what's your input on this notion, dr. campbell? >> well, frederica, my expertise is in vaccine development and working forward to protect people from ebola. >> i'm wondering on this latest news if you have an opinion whether it would be worthy or viable or necessary? >> i think the important points have been brought up, which is what will that quarantine mean and will it have an effect on people's willingness to go overseas and to assist with the outbreak? and i think those details we've not heard what those details
are. but they're very important in terms of what the quarantine will mean, where people will be quarantined and whether or not we can come up with a system for people to understand that going overseas would mean that on return that it would require quarantine. >> so, dr. campbell, let's stick to your level of expertise on vaccines, we've heard lots of discussions publicly about whether there are a host of vaccines that are available but they have not received fda approval or they still have, you know, other levels in which to go before anyone can discern whether they are effective or not. so how hopeful are you about the vaccines that are i guess still being researched now and how soon might something be available to help treat or, you know, inoculate before anyone goes to an ebola region. what should we be anticipating here? >> yeah, so we are extremely
hopeful. there are multiple vaccines in the pipeline but two of those vaccines have had the most extensive testing in preclinical, prior to human trials. and now in human trials. and in the monkey trials that were performed for these vaccines, they had very good efficacy and in some 100% efficacy, where the monkeys were given the vaccine and then later were challenged with multiples of lethal dose of ebola and none of them died. and monkeys,s as you may know, and great apes, are susceptible to ebola just like humans are. we're currently testing these vaccine in people both in the united states and west africa and in countries in europe. to date they're looking very hopeful. so as you know, w.h.o. has now announced tens of thousands of
doses will be available in the near future for us to do additional testing. >> that is helpful. but dr. gounder, when we talk about hundreds if not thousands of people coming down with ebola in african nations right now, do you feel there should be an expedited process on the vaccines and testing, especially because people are dying very quickly in west africa, if it means going to the source or eradicating to the source or that the spread would be slowed worldwide? >> well, development of these vaccines is being dramatically expedited. the development and testing of a vaccine usually takes years. to have this be potentially usable within the year is really fast. but the other thing that's really keer is that in that time hundreds of thousands of people could die if we don't scale up our efforts to manage the
disease in the affected countries right now and unfortunately that response is still too slow. >> thanks so much to all of you, we appreciate it. we'll talk more about this later on. >> when we come back, we'll continue to follow the developments of the school shooting yesterday. we'll talk to a doctor at the hospital that just gave an update on two of the 14-year-old girls being treated there. but first, each week we're shining a spotlight on the top ten cnn heros of 2014. s a you vote for the one who most inspires you, who you think is most deserving at cnn heros.com. when this week's honoree realized that many families with autistic children end up isolating themselves, she took action. meet dr. wendy roth. -- ross. >> going to new experiences with my son is a gamble.
you are on edge all the time. >> just breathe. >> when he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you're a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. it's challenging. >> i stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. >> i'm afraid. >>s a a developmental pediatrician, i do a lot of diagnosing of autism. when i heard my families were afraid to go out, i felt i needed to find a way to help them. every day experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. music, lights, the noise. there's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening.
>> are you ready to go? we prepare the families with story book pieces of what may happen at the park and provide experiences sort of like a safety net. if you start taking steps outside the door, your world gets bigger and bigger. >> one success means more success. >> it's about more than a game. it's about opportunity. >> hopefully there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. the world is our oyster.
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all right, this is breaking news on the shooting at that high school in washington. the providence regional medical center has been holding a press conference and right now we know that there are two 14-year-old girls who remain in critical condition there. two other students are being treated at another hospital. earlier students shared chilling descriptions of the terror at lunch yesterday. >> he came up from behind and had a gun in his hand. >> i saw three kids just fall from the table like they were falling to the ground dead. i jumped under the table. >> joining me on the phone is dr. joanne roberts. she's the chief medical officer at the hospital where the two girls are being treated. they remain in critical condition, the two young girls and family members are there.
can you give us more details about the extent of their injuries and the procedures they had to undergo since being admitted there? >> yes, good morning. when they came in yesterday,s a you know, we had four young people come into our emergency departme department. we quickly ascertained their wounds. the three of the four had head injuries. all three were taken right away to the operating room for brain surgery. one was taken to our level one trauma center in seattle. they need constant monitoring, nursing at the bedside constantly as well as the doctors nearby. their families are asking that
we all respect their privacy and send them their prayers while they sit at the bedsides with their loved ones. >> so what's the road ahead in terms of their treatment if you're able to share with that, more immediately and then potentially even long term. in their recoveries. >> certainly. the next two to three days are the times with all acute injuries that are most crucial to monitor and that's especially true with head injuries. and that's exactly what we'll be doing with very close monitor of flui fluids. >> and, dr. roberts, when these students arrived, how immediate was it? in other words, was your hospital informed that these were students that were shot in that school shooting or was it a matter of getting that kind of information upon their arrival?
>> this was an excellent example of when a trauma system works. we had actually done a drill with our emergency medical services and our surgeons and emergency department staff about two months ago for precisely this scenario. we all recognize that we're seeing more schoolyard shootings and we thought this could happen in our community and so we practiced for it. it occurred yesterday, the ems folks who were first responders on the scene let us know immediately. they gave us about 30 minutes' notice. they had -- the police had to clear the scene. during that 30 minutes, we assembled four trauma teams, we had four trauma rooms set up, ready and waiting. each team was about a dozen people with a doctor and a surgeon nearby. as soon as they were brought in, they were stabilized and
triageds a to which go to the operating rooms first. our operating rooms had been cleared to handle them and we got them into the operating room within about an hour after the first one arrived to the door. >> dr. joanne roberts, all the better. of course we know the families there and the community incredibly grateful for the work that you and your colleagues there are doing at providence regional. thanks so much for your time. appreciate it. all right, still no decision from the grand jury investigating the death of michael brown, the black teen-ager who was shot and killed by a white police officer in ferguson, missouri, but brown's autopsy report has now been leaked to the press. it's the second major leak since the grand jury began. no one is taking responsibility for the disclosures but what does this mean for the case? let's bring in our legal guides,
avery friedman and looking organizatioh, so dapper, richard herman, joining us from las vegas. gentlemen, i think we're going to save that for the end. explain why you're in that beautiful tux, avery. so we got the drum beat going. mean time let's talk about these leaks, richard. is this leak an indicator, perhaps, if it's coming from prosecutors even, is it an indicator that maybe there is not going to be an indictment so drip, drip, drip, leak out some of this information so it's a softer blow to the community in particular or how do you read this? >> could very well be, fred. these grand jury proceedings are supposed to be private. none of this information is supposed to be leaked. by the fact that it was leaked, the community has got to say what's going on with our government if things like this are being leaked when they're not supposed to be. but what's critical here, fred,
is this, the officer testified at the grand jury for four hours. the forensics, if they're true and accurate, appear to corroborate their story and there were six eyewitnesses who also corroborate their versions. they say you can indict a ham sandwich. he may be a tuna sandwich and they may not indict in this case. >> avery, what do you read into this? >> tuna? there are so many leaks here you need a plumber. with the grand jury, the community is expecting integrity in the process. and while this is a very unpopular view about this and they've been going ten weeks, frederi frederica, they needed to expand this grand jury and start it all over again. there were way too many intentional leaks. if you want to have integrity in the process, you have no choice, you have to get rid it have and start all over again. >> really? >> yes. >> how does one go about that?
>> that's absurd, fred. >> it's not absurd. it should be. the community is not going to trust what the results are. there have been so many leaks that you can't trust the process. and what does that invite? it invites disrespect for the law, it invites a sense of unfairness and the fact is it doesn't work, it's not going to work. >> fred, the leaks have absolutely nothing to do with the procedure that's going on behind the doors and the presentation to the grand jury. the problem is if there are too many different versions of the facts, that jury cannot reasonably rely on a series of facts to come up with probable cause. i think that's what's going on here. i don't think there is going to be an indictment in this case. >> trial issue. >> well, this is something that certainly is not helping to ease any of the concerns -- >> that's for sure. >> exactly. >> it's stirring the pot even more. now to avery, why he looks so good.
he looks good every weekend but now he's got this tuxedo on. richard, i know you know this because it's no surprise that avery would be honored. this time we're talking about the u.s. supreme court, the great room of the supreme court of the united states is where our avery friedman will be today, in large part because of his service to advance ethics and integrity and professionalism within the profession. and, avery, you can tell us more but we shouldn't be surprised that somebody like you would be honored because you're an extraordinary individual. but congratulations. >> that's nice of you to say. thank you, thank you. we're very excited. justice ruth bader ginsburg is going to be hosting this event in a very short time so we're very honored. i think the idea of what the three of us do in making sure
the public is aware of the law and sometimes the problem with the law i would like to think contributed to it so it's something we all share together. >> you are so sweet. >> congratulations. well deserved and it is our honor. it's my honor that i have the two of you with me every weekend and that you all bring your expertise. you're smart and your humor, i love that the most every saturday. >> it's an honor and privilege. >> thanks so much. congratulations to you, avery. well deserved. we're so proud of you. it is one of the largest cheating scandals ever uncovered at a major university. details on how students got as without even going to a class and what this means for their degrees.
the university of north carolina is reeling after a report showed that thousands of students took fake classes to get their as. the classes never actually convened, students just wrote a paper. the eight-month investigation found that it went on for 18 years. an adviser steered student athletes to the classes so they would remain eligible to play sports by the schools. i'm joined by mel robbins, cnn
commentator and legal analyst. good to see both of you. gerald, let me begin with you. we're talking almost 20 years of this going on. does this mean that graduates of this program should be giving back their degrees? >> probably not. i think from the ncaa point of view, the problem is more related to -- i'm getting some technical difficulties. >> you're getting feedback? >> yes. >> all right. let us work on that on our end. mel, what should be the punishment? some will argue that many of them didn't get an education and many might be struggling post education and that they've already paid a price. what happens when they go to their employers and they're
saying i earned this degree and now their employers are saying you're a fraud, you actually didn't earn that degree, it was given to you? >> well, you know, it's a really interesting question because you're talking about 3,100 students that went through these programs and half of them were athletes but the other half were nonathletic students. and i would think that parents or students that are paying the bills but in particular parents that are paying bills for these kids and sending their kids to unc thinking that they're getting a real education when in fact they're paying real dollars to pay for credits that actually were never taught, that's a potential claim. but i think the bigger issue here frankly is what's going to happen to unc? i personally think if the ncaa, whose entire mission is about academics does not deliver the death penalty and send a massive
message in this, they are irrelevant. if academics is the mission and there were no academics, then there is no ncaa. and the other people that are going to be watching this case are the lawyers that have brought two class action suits again the ncaa thats a of two weeks ago a federal judge said could move forward. they're basically saying that these kids are working for free. >> mel, just for clarification, when you say the death penalty, that means the athletic association would be taken away from unc? >> they should cancel the athletic program at unc for a year. it basically says we're a joke, we don't care about athletics, we're going to take away some scholarships and turn a blind eye. two decades worth of cheating? it's got to be something serious. >> we'll take a short break and we'll be right back.
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moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. we're talking about the unc class scandal. before the break, mel, you talked about the ncaa must deliver a death penalty on unc, otherwise in your view they're irrelevant. gerald, what say you? the infraction and the allegations at unc are
egregious. they are long term and it represents the worst by far academic fraud scandal in history. it affects about 1,500 student athletes approximately. to give you some comparison, most recent big one was florida state and that affected 61 athletes. unfortunately while this certainly qualifies for some of the most serious penalties, it does not qualify for the death penalty. the death penalty is also knowns a the repeat offenders v-- know as the repeat offenders violation. and north carolina was not on probation prior to these allegations. so it doesn't qualify for the death penalty. >> we're talking about 18 years, though. even you have said it involves administrators, athletic
administrators and faculty over this amount of time. there are an awful lot of people who are complicit. not to mention the fact that they went after the whistle blower and she's now filed a lawsuit against them and they tried to get the professor that was in charge of this charged and tried for fraud. so they knew what was going on. >> so there was a protection. they were getting upset. those are alleged to have got i don't know very upset that somebody is trying to tell everybody and facing penalty herself. gerald. >> well, i absolutely agree that this penalty should be among the most serious infractions and sanctions of the most serious kind. it just simply doesn't mean the death penalty. >> all right. >> with respect to the ncaa, they've been very inconsistent in how they deal with infractions. >> okay. we'll have to leave it there.
gerald gurney, mel robbins, thanks so much to both of you. more right after this. narrator: that whipped through the turbine which poured... surplus energy into the plant which generously lowered its price and tipped off the house which used all that energy to stay warm through the storm. chipmunk: there's a bad storm comin! narrator: the internet of everything is changing how energy works. is your network ready?"
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