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tv   CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin  CNN  January 5, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PST

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the information late new york governor mario cuomo tomorrow. i covered him. and he was wonderful man. always very nice to me. i want to express my personal condolences to the entire cuomo family especially our colleague chris cuomo and the governor of new york andrew cuomo, the entire cuomo family. thanks very much for joining us. ♪ all right here we go. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. thanks so much for being here with me on this monday. we have some breaking news from the pentagon. the pentagon confirming moments ago that u.s. troops in iraq are under quote-unquote regular attack by isis. now keep in mind as we've been covering this now for months and months these u.s. troops these advisors not troops in any kind of combat roles. that said of course in the wake of what we're reporting one
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of the questions is could that change? these attacks are happening at al asad air base in anbar province western iraq. you see the orange on your screen. let me take you to our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. what are you hearing? what kinds of attacks are these? >> reporter: well brooke this is at the al asad air base in anbar province in western iraq. this is a huge sprawling base. hundreds of iraqi forces there, over 300 u.s. force there's. what has been happening, we're told is a number of mortar and rocket attacks. they are what the military calls indirect fire. what that means is they are not very precise. they are not really aimed at anything in particular. the isis fighters basically light off these moretars aim it towards the base and falls somewhere around there. so far no u.s. casualties. iraqis not saying whether they suffered any.
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but it does raise this question you know will the law of averages run out for the u.s. some day here as these attacks continue. right now the pentagon is calling them ineffective. thankfully no u.s. casualties. but make no mistake obviously there's a concern. you have 320 u.s. troops there. you have this constant barrage of fire. a lot of worry about making sure that those u.s. troops number one, can be kept safe and two, that if they are not in combat at least combat doesn't come to them. >> so, of course that begs the question if these are not precise now if and when that changes, i know you're talking to dod folks at what point might the u.s. role change or is that still very nebulous at this point >> president obama is adamant he won't put u.s. troops in a combat role. what does that mean? the president is saying u.s. troops will not have combat tasks on the ground assigned to
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them. look we have you know dozens and dozens of u.s. combat aircraft flying over iraq and syria every day, a jordanian pilot already down and in isis hands. so there is combat going on make no mistake. the president is talking about boots on the ground in a combat role. the problem is this is beginning to under score that very thin line. they may not be there in a combat role they are in anbar at these bases to advise assist and train iraqi forces but if this type of fire if this type of attack keeps coming at them at what point do they have to push back simply from text themselves. big question brooke. >> barbara starr, thank you so much. now, we have to tell you this story about this little girl this sole survivor of this plane crash. she is sailor gutler. flying friday night with her family from a trip in key west
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florida back the home iowa when this twin engine plane crashed in rural kentucky. her mother her father her older sister and her cousin the only other people on board they all died in this crash so sailor was 100% you know, utterly alone here in this freezing cold dark forest. she was dressed for key west so she was in shorts no coat. she had an injured arm. she believed her family was dead but hoped perhaps they were just sleeping. again, sailor the survivor 7 years of age and despite the horror of what happened she set off to find help. she trekked three quarters of a mile and found the home of larry wilkens who couldn't believe what he saw when he heard this light knocking on his front door. >> she just said that -- she said my mom and dad are dead. we just had a plane crash.
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and the plane was upside down. it's kind of unbelievable you know that a little girl come out -- you have to bear in mind how rough the terrain is through that woods, a lot briar bushes and her leg was cut up. it was about 35 36 degrees and barefooted. and it wasn't raining just drizzling. she was a little bit wet but not soaking wet just a little bit wet. i imagine her feet were pretty cold. i got too little dachshund dogs and they helped her a lot. her grand dad told me she had a dachshund. but these little dogs love everybody, you know. and they took to her just immediately. i think that helped calm her
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down quite a bit. >> unbelievable isn't it the notion that this 7-year-old survives this plane crash. jay thomas is a public affairs officer for the kentucky state police and he's on phone with me. trooper thomas thank you so much for calling in. let me begin with how is sailor doing? i understand she's with family. >> right. she was treated and released at a local hospital and turned back over to her family. she had a broken wrist and some minor cuts from her trek through the woods and through some briar patches but she's doing well now. >> i want to get into the briar patches and trekking in the mid. nowhere where this crash site was. what more can you tell me. initially sailor told emergency responders her family was dead then she said maybe they are sleeping. at 7 years of age she has to be able to understand more or less what happened? >> right. she initially told us that she
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thought her parents were dead but could possibly be sleeping. she tried to wake them up after the crash but she couldn't get them to respond to her. there was a small fire at the scene of the plane crash. she tried to light a stick. her dad had taught her some things like that but because everything was so wet and raining and the fire extinguished itself from the rain. she wasn't able to light the stick. she just had the survival mindset that she had to get help for her family and she started that trek through the woods. there's no houses in that area that she was in. a lot of the houses that are actually that are there are vacation homes where people don't live year round. she was very lucky to make to it mr. wilkens house. >> i mean so the denseness of the forest the fact that so many of these people don't live in these homes year round, you say she was incredibly fortunate. was it also foggy. you mentioned rainy.
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help set the scene for me of what she had to endure to find this man, to find safety. >> on friday night it was raining, there was some fog, some dense fog that was out, no moon light. so almost pitch black. it took rescue workers approximately two hours to find the plane. just searching through the woods. there was really nothing reflective on the plane to help with their flash lights but a small fire that she had told us about had extinguished itself. so we really had nothing to do on. when he a general direction of what to look for. >> and the plane itself i'm sure it's ntsb's jurisdiction but are they determining more or less it was fog or weather that led to the plane going down? >> they had their preliminary investigation and will release something in approximately ten days on the findings of that. i don't want to get into their
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investigation. >> sure. trooper thomas thank you so much for spending the time with us. thoughts and prayers with little sailor and those who are with her now. appreciate it. i do want to let all of you know a fund has been set up to help this little girl. you can find out how to help. go to cnn.com/impact. coming up next here on cnn in the search of air asia flight 8501 did the pilots flight a route that wasn't approved? those new details ahead. also conditions under water making it impossible for divers as they search for victims and wreckage. jury selection begin in the boston bombing trial. hear why the sides could not reach a plea deal. could this mean the death penalty for this alleged boston bomber?
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psssssh. guaranteed. you picked a beautiful ring. thank you. we're never having kids. mmm-mmm. breathe. i love it here. we are never moving to the suburbs. we are never getting one of those. we are never having another kid. i'm pregnant. i am never letting go. for all the nevers in life state farm is there. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. severe set backs in the search for remains and wreckage of air asia flight 8501. high winds grounding these planes. on the sea take a look at this new video. this shows you exactly how rough it is for these search crews but
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condition above the surface of the java sea is half the battle because divers who do make to it the ocean floor hitting muddy waters and what we're hearing is zero visibility. so now they've rely on sonar which according to a report from reuters moosely picked up the tail of the plane which contains the all-important black boxes that keep in mind one large piece of the wreckage initially believed to be part of the missing plane turned out to be a wrecked ship. search teams did manage to find three more bodies today bringing the total number of victims recovered to 37. keep in mind that's 37 out of a total of 162. let me bring in our two aviation specials. arthur wise and miles o'brien in d.c. pilot and pbs "newshour" science correspondent. gentlemen welcome to you. jeff beginning with you, reading the "wall street journal" today there was reporting out of the waunch talking about the different roujts that this air asia was and wasn't approved to fly
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depending on the day of the week. right? so apparently they were not approved to fly on that route on that day. how are routes even approved could this happen here? >> right. right. listen, if you're a business and you want to do something, you want to run a cab, open a tell fly a route you have to get a permit. you have to go the government and get a permit. in some places of the world if you follow the proper procedures to get a permit you never get it. you grease some palms and you get it. but in this case the branch of the indonesian government that looks into corruption cases is looking into this. what we're looking into is paper work not being in order kind of situation, not a pilot taking off recklessly and flying a route they are not supposed to fly. >> miles o'brien you are listening to this. is this just a tangental part of the discussion or lead to a
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bigger part of the puzzle? >> i would take this little fact and pin it up on the bulletin board and keep it in mind when you start thinking about the overall investigation and how the airline is run. will there be questions about the weather briefing the authorization to fly, the decision to fly two hours earlier. there are a lot of things that are kind of creeping into this discussion that are not necessarily verified but says a lot about a fast growing region with demand for low cost transportation. whether the regulators of the airline is doing the right or wrong thing is unclear but might say something about the culture of the airline. >> i'll duly pin that on my board there. what about also from the "wall street journal" finding air asia pilots assess the weather on their own and make the call whether or not to fly. here in the u.s. and europe as well they rely on these dispatch
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towers evaluate the weather, miles do you think that's a problem as well? >> well yes. just to be clear how they do it here. every time you push back the captain and a qualified licensed dispatcher have agreed that this is a good idea to go. they checked the route, they checked the weather, weights and balance, on it goes. this system is very important. it's an important piece of the safety picture here in the u.s. and europe and, again, we're talking about an area that's sorting out its aviation future trying learn how to do things a safely and maybe this is one of those little pieces they should learn from. having said that they decided to leave two hours earlier. what they talked about is a face to face meeting with a weather officer. so again, this is part of a, you know a background portion of this. this i'm certain, it's hard to imagine, a captain and a first officer not taking off -- taking off without a weather briefing
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of some kind and we all know there's lots of ways to learn about the weather. >> on the issue of icing jeff wise the weather agency said icing was the most likely of possible wish factors. does that seem probable to you >> i heard that and it struck me that it's probably too early to make that kind of a strong statement. >> why? >> a thunderstorm -- because we know so little -- we haven't found the black boggses or data recorders. we don't know what happened. we have some reports from the automatic equipment that was transmitting information about flight. we know something about how the flight went up and then came down. to think it was icing is premature. there's a number of things a number of ways planes can get in trouble in and around thunderstorms. ice cigarette one. there's other things as well. i don't think they have the basis. this came from the weather service over there, not from -- >> hopefully the report cigarette correct they found those flight data recorders and
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we can get a lot -- paint the greater mosaic as far as this plane is concerned. thank you both very much. >> coming up next jury selection is under way in the trial of accused boston bomber tsarnaev. wall street starting off on the wrong foot this year. see that picture the dow dropping a whopping 300 points today. why? what's to blame? stay right here you're watching cnn. spray or gel so there's moisturizing relief for everyone. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like you're underwater? try zyrtec-d® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter. i'm angela and i quit smoking with chantix. my children always wanted me to quit smoking but i resigned myself to the fact
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. lrtd. the boston marathon bombing moving back into the national spotlight today with jury selection under way to dzhokar tsarnaev. 1,200 people from the greater boston area have been summoned and from among that pool 12 jurors and six alternates will be selected. tsarnaev has pleaded not guilty to 30 federal charges. if all goes as planned opening statements will begin three weeks from today. for a trial that could last for about four months. if convicted tsarnaev could face
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the death penalty in the second phase of this whole proceedings. tsarnaev's attorney tried to reach a plea deal with prosecutors as the justice department refused to budge on the death penalty. the so-called pressure cooker bombs killed three people wounded some 264. i mean who could forget that day. a police officer then with m.i.t. also allegedly shot and killed tsarnaev and his brother tamerlan the older brother who was killed following that police hunt. so thank you both for coming on and evan let me turn to you. so two phases right, determining whether guilty or not. if convicted you go on to the sentencing the penalty phase. these attorneys initially were talking behind closed doors as a way to avoid it all so some of these people wouldn't have to talk about this horrendous
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experience that they endured. impasse. what happened >> an impasse. judy clark the famous attorney she's be handled so many of these cases, represented some of the most notorious criminals in american history including the una bomber and managed to get plea deals. in this case the justice department decided they didn't want to take the death penalty off the table. is this a case as you know that garner ad lot of emotion in boston and we know that some of the victims, family and some survivors said spoke out and said they want to see death for tsarnaev. >> i want to come back to you. it's worth noting what eric holder said about all this. edward schwartz to you when we think about jury selection particularly in this kind of a case involving capital punishment in talking about screening these potential jurors for impartiality how do you do that? >> well the first question of
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course is whether or not you believe that something like absolute impartiality exists. i think what we can hope for, those is get people who can be open minded about the information that's going to be presented to them today. and moving forward throughout the many weeks. and the judge has a difficult job for sure. there are a variety of things that will make it hard for individuals here in the boston area to stay open minded about this case for sure. >> beyond staying open minded though, what kind of questions are asked of these potential jurors as far as the death penalty is concerned? >> well there is a process known as death qualification which is asking people about their attitudes on the death penalty. if somebody expresses the view that essentially under no circumstances would they vote for the death penalty, then they are deemed as not being acceptable or qualified to serve
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on a capital case. support for the death penalty here in the commonwealth of massachusetts is extremely low. and so those concerns are going to be present and important to explore for a very large number of the prospective jurors who have been assembled here. >> evan perez as i mentioned eric holder he's a critic of the death penalty but has been very crystal clear as far as this goes. >> what he talked about in this case was the lack of remorse from tsarnaev and he said this was a heinous crime. this was something that in imprisoned the city for a day as police were hunting for these suspects. while he's critical of the death penalty he authorized this and a couple of other cases including on friday if you remember the lax shoot out, the shooting which killed a tsa officer he authorized death penalty for that suspect just last week.
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so he's willing to go there. the interesting thing, brooke is that this case if he does get the death penalty, tsarnaev is going to be something that's going to be litigated for a dozen years before he ever gets to that stage. >> let me end with you, edward with your legal hat on bust also as a bostonian. i was there for a month covering this and i'll never forget the eerie, it was like a ghost town during those horrendous few days when nobody knew who committed these atrocities. what's the sense now in the city? >> well i have to say that people that i spoke to including i was speaking to my colleague jeff herman today at the decision quest where i work about if there ever was a circumstance in which a change of venue seemed appropriate this is it. you can't speak to anybody around here who thinks frankly, that this guy is going to find a
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set of jurors who are impartial in the conventional sense about what's going on here. everyone has feelings about this and strong ones. >> they need those 12 jurors and six alternates. we'll see if they get them. gentlemen, thank you both very very much. we'll stay on that story, of course in the coming months. meantime just moments from now the mayor of new york will make an announcement along with the commissioner of the new york police department and it comes 24 hours after some officers once again turned their backs on the mayor. how will he respond? we'll take it live. plus he's the fifth in line to the british throne. prince andrew, duke of york right now accused of acbillionaire's under age sex ring and he's not the only famous face involved. those details ahead.
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bottom of the hour you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. you see this. a lot of red? the dow falling 300 points. behind the slide the rapid decline in oil prices crude briefly dipped below $50 a barrel which seemed unheard of
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not too long ago hasn't been that low since watch 2009 during the recession while it's given drivers a big break at the gas pumps global markets less enthusiastic. now to what's happening in new york city. at an event dedicated to paying respect some new york police officers showed what a number of critics are calling absolute disrespect against their leaders. the officers see some of them there turning their backs sunday as mayor bill de blasio eulogized loo. in half an hour the mayor is expected to respond alongside the police commissioners. the officers' move there a proeflt against de blasio in what they say is lack of support in the wake of nationwide protest against police brew totals. act of defiance happened despite the police commissioner's focus on grieving and not grievances
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during the officer's funeral. there's no doubt when wenjian liu's widow spoke tragedy of love lost not police politics that came to mourners minds. take a listen. >> one of his many passions is being a police officer. he took pride in the fact that he is nypd. wenjian liu was a very hard-working cop. although he worked often he would always make sure to take time for me his number one fan. his family. and his friends. wenjian liu will always live in my heart. i loved you. i loved you forever. >> thank you. >> they just got married months
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before. miguel marquez is waiting outside of city hall. why is the mayor calling this news conference today? >> reporter: well this was something that was pre-planned. they will talk about statistics for the police department in general and how things have gone for the last year. this something that typically happens every year between the police commission alternative mayor. typically it's over just few blocks away from here at city halibut the mayor because of the situation we gather has come over to 1 police plaza where nypd is based to talk with police directly and with the police commissioner and release those statistics about how things are going across the city related to crime. that said we expect he'll take questions and one of those questions several of those questions i'm sure will be about the protests and about the way that police are perceiving him right now. >> let me ask you as we talk about statistics we've seen some
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numbers recently police spoke about decline of arrests from new york police in the last couple of weeks and some are attributing that to this is maybe the officers' response to mayor de blasio or was happening nationwide with these protests. what are you hearing? >> reporter: it is not clear. i've spoken to union reps the beat cops. they say there's no directive to stop making arrests or stop ticketing individuals. there's a lot going on right now across the city. you have protests on many lights in the last several weeks. thousands of police officers get stuck sucked into that duty. you had two high-profile killings, the precincts where those happened have been long down and people have not been out very much. added to that you have two funerals that has brought tens of thousands of police officers in from off duty and they just haven't been as active in all of
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that plus it's the holiday season. not clear that what one can draw from that. it's possible it's related but not very clear. >> we'll see you a little bit on the back end of that news conference with bratton and de blasio much thank you, sir. just ahead a grand juror in the ferguson, missouri missouri case is suing wanting to speak out publicly about what happened publicly behind-the-scenes. what's the reasons? plus prince andrew success accused in this under age sex ring involving a caribbean island an american billionaire and a high-profile lawyer and that lawyer by the way, is blasting these allegations. you'll hear from him next.
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prince andrew fifth in line to the throne is denying accuse jigs accuseations he's part of a sex ring. in court papers the accuser here this woman virginia roberts says the man delivered her and other girls to powerful friends including the duke of york for o 0 r orgies in new york and london. andrew falls behind his brother
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charles, nephew william and other nephew prince harry. he's number five. william and kate second child due in april will become fourth in april dumping andrew down sixth. the royal family is now responding. here's max foster. >> reporter: this scandal unfoldled over the weekend while prince andrew was on a skiing holiday in switzerland. he's now back in the uk. no doubt holding meetings with officials and lawyers. when this scandal at the palace it usually goes quiet. not this time. unprecedented four statements issued in response to a lawsuit alleging prince andrew had sex with an under age girl several times in three years from 1999 to 2002. one even went as far as specifically naming his accuser saying it's emphatically denied that his royal highness the duke
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of york had any form of sexual condakota or relationship with virginia roberts. the allegations made are false and without any foundation. roberts alleges she was kept as a sex slave for three years by the prince's former frernds billionaire businessman and convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein. during this time roberts claims she was forced to have sexual relations with the prince when she was a minor in london in new york and on epstein's private island in the u.s. virgin islands in an orgy with numerous under age girls. epstein told roberts to give the prince whatever he demanded and required. and to report back to him on the details. the prince had come understand harsh criticism for his friendship with epstein back in 2011. he later resigned as an ambassador to british trade. roberts says epstein routinely lent her to powerful figures for sex, including well-known
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criminal defense attorney alan dershowitz. >> speaking of alan dershowitz we talk to him on tv he says the allegations are completely made up and he talked to cnn's "new day" in a fiery denial. >> she is a liar. she has charged bill clinton with having sex with her on the island when secret service records were obviously show he was never on the island. she claimed to meet the queen, buckingham records will show that's not true. how does a lawyer rely on the statement of a woman who is a serial purger serial liar serial prostitute and bring charges against somebody with an unscathed reputation like me without even checking. i will take action. i'm filing today a sworn affidavit denying categorically truth. i'm seeking to intervene in the case. i am challenging her to file
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rape charges against me. i waive any statute of limitations any immunity because if she files a false rape charge against me she goes to jail. tends result of this case is she should go to jail, the lawyer should be disbarred and everybody should understand that i am completely and totally innocent. >> alan dershowitz there. let's talk about what this means for the palace. it's worth reminding our american viewers when you think about prince andrew duke of york you think of fergie and the daughters thants and the royal wedding. when you hear all of this you said fergie herself recently has responded. >> she was cornered by a reporter and until later prince andrew was skiing with his ex-wife and his young daughter. they left yesterday. when asked about the claims she said he's the greatest man in the world, that the work family
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are a tight unit. this is his ex-wife speaking yet she still calls themselves a tight family unit. >> i read that andrew had apologized in the past about his friendship with this american billionaire and i guess i was wondering do royals typically keep this kind of company and go to caribbean islands with people like this? >> prince andrew in particular has raised eyebrows for years over questionable relationships with shady businessman. designee has. >> he has. his love of the playboy lifestyle. in 2011 he was forced to give up his role as a spreshl trade envoy because of his relationship with yep stein. yes royals have pr people but at the end of the day they make their own decisions and prince andrew on a number of occasions have been the victim of poor
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judgment. >> are you surprised buckingham palace touched this. >> buckingham pal lags generally doesn't comment on allegations. if they would do that it would take a full time staff of 20,000 of responding to daily allegations. they had to in this case. these claims were made as part of civil proceedings that are ongoing in florida. prince andrew is not party to that case which means key not issue a formal response. so -- >> i was wondering if we'll see a denial like we saw with alan dershowitz. >> i doubt we'll hear from prince andrew any time soon because he's not trained to speak the way alan dershowitz does. he can defend himself. prince andrew is not trained in that respect. it may be a little while before we hear from him if we hear from him directly at all. >> a mess. >> thank you very much. >> nice to see you. coming up next the grand jury
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that investigated the killing of michael brown in ferguson, missouri is suing challenging the lifetime gag order on the case. why? plus stuck on a plane for 28 hours, folks. 2-8. how their nightmare earneded and why they were not allowed to leave the plane. stay with me you're watching cnn. she inspires you. no question about that. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily
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six weeks after a grand jury decided not to indict officer darren wilson in the shooting death of brown in ferguson, missouri one of these grand jurors wants to speak publicly. this unnamed individual wants to talk about serving on the jury and the evidence presented. this juror is suing the prosecutor just to get the permission to speak out according to the aclu, the american civil lie birts union. the aclu says this juror wants to talk about the case that could quote-unquote contribute to the public dialogue when it comes to race relations. happy new year to you two. >> happy new year. >> so paul former prosecutor you get the first question which is remind everyone before all these grand jurors left that room when they decided the majority of them not to indict
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officer wilson what were they told not to do >> they were told not discuss the case with anybody because under missouri law and by the way the law in most states is that if a grand juror talks about what they have observed in a grand jury or discussed with other grand jurors that's a crime and in missouri you can go to prison for one year if you discuss testimony. they were told a second thing, though, and they were told by far he would release all of the evidence in the case and that there was no reason for them to have to discuss it because all of the evidence would be released to the public and, of course the prosecutor did with the exception of i think some witnesses who are being used in the federal investigation he did release all of the testimony. >> okay. so this is what they were told, the follow up being, the real question why does this person want to come forward. let's say maybe this person wants to write a book make a little bit of money, the explanation public dialogue concerning race relations.
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in your guts which way do you think this person fell as far as the indictment? >> there's a clue for me and that is that in the actual court papers they talk a little bit about the legal standards being muddled and untimely in terms of how they were presented. >> that tells you what? >> it tells me this is somebody that was not for no indictment. this tells me this is somebody that's saying that the process was broken. and that i want to talk about my experience and even the attorney from the aclu is saying that this they are calling juror doe john or jane doe we don't know wants to present facts and their experience as a way to help repair the broken system and to have things move forward. sign the beginning i thought oh, maybe this is somebody thats to help with race relationships and is going to say it was unanimous, the evidence spoke for itself. but when you dig a little deep near to the actual court papers it seems pretty clear to me that this is somebody that wasn't
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happy with the result. >> do you think he/she will get this permission will be allowed to speak? >> absolutely not. >> oh, come on. >> the reason i say that is there's a law in missouri that says you can go to jail for a year if you're a grand juror and you talk about what you saw in the grand jury. so i don't know mel thinks out of the blue the judge will say we'll forget about the law cnn wants to know what the juror has to say. it doesn't matter -- >> it does. >> a judge will look at this and say listen i'm not going waive a law. i don't have the right. >> what they could do is compel the d.a. to grant immunity to a particular juror thats to speak in the public interest in the wake of the public interest in the wake of the fact that this is a national conversation where all the evidence is out in the open. the prosecutor himself has actually been out there saying that he wants transparency and now suddenly one of 12 people
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that is unable to talk about this case suddenly he doesn't want to be transparent about this. >> my problem with mel's theory in the history of the united states this has never been done. we have -- >> that's my next question. how often are these kind of circumstances -- >> never. >> when has a d.a. ever just ad grand jury for this purpose and release the evidence. >> practically every year every county in america some prosecutor is accused of misusing grand juries. the reason we have grand jury secrecy so we'll encourage witnesses to come forward not to be afraid to testify in the grand jury. >> wouldn't this change things if they do allow -- >> no. >> radically. can you imagine -- >> he's released everything. there is no secrecy except for these 12 people. why shouldn't they be able to speak. >> 12 people on the grand jury
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and if you were to allow them -- think of the precedent. all grand juries across america we'll second guess every indictment. >> that's not true. >> they will debate what they heard. let's say you had a rape victim who thought she could tell her story in the grand jury without that story being distributed by some grand juror. well the next day in mel's world she will go out and gave press conference about it. >> then you would say mcculloch was in the wrong because he released everything. >> who cities. >> a judge would. absolutely. i think the bigger problem here is let's just take a step back from the legal stuff because they with maneuver this. the public distrusts already what happened. the public already doesn't have faith in the system. so if you have a situation where one of 12 people comes forward and says i just want to tell my experience and the prosecutor who has been promising
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transparentally suddenly says no that is going to make people trust the system even less. >> let's throw out the law. and just make it up as we go along. >> no. >> that will make the public confident. >> let's file an injunction and -- >> i think we have a legal system and we should apply the law and that's the way we've developed this country. throw it out on a case by case basis. >> like if we were spending holidays together. >> we'll see what happens. we can say you are right or you are right. >> you're a graceful loser. >> we continue on. thanks you two. i appreciate it very much. great discussion. coming up next this absolute nightmare on the tarmac. you thought you had it bad trying to get home for this holidays. imagine passengers stuck on an airplane for 28 hours. how can that happen? that's next. that can help your company grow steadily and quickly. great job. (mandarin)
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when you are on a plane, waiting to takeoff sometimes ten minutes can feel like an hour. imagine sitting on the tarmac waiting for 12 hours. 12 hours. that happened to a flight from a abu dhabi to san francisco. >> they kept telling us we were leaving 15 minutes from now, 30
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minutes from now, 15 minutes from now for 12 hours. >> the flight attendants were fighting with us we were fighting with them. >> plane landed in san francisco 16 hours after it took off. do the math. 28 hours on a plane. cnn suzanne malveaux joins me with maybe a little bit more insight on this. why did this happen? >> reporter: brooke i don't know if this was your reaction but when i heard this would i be one of those passengers to rip open the emergency door at that point. it was infuriating what they went through, the frustration. according to the airline, abu dhabi airport closed for just an hour. had these airlines wait for this fraesk nature this fog that rolls in to clear. then massive congestion on the tarmac. hundreds of planes different airlines. they crowd the run twairks gateways which caused the long delays ultimately cancellations. they had to wait for clearance. clearance didn't come for many
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hours. quite frankly they were unprepared for this type of scenario. they are not used to it. it was a desert area. a huge mess. >> when i heard about this i'm thinking passenger bill of rights this doesn't apply over there. you mentioned the fog. i also read something about plane delayed switching crews, was that part of the issue? >> yeah. it seems crazy two things were at play. from the passengers they are saying they are told there wasn't enough space in the airport to accommodate them. so many airlines in the same boat couldn't handle all these passengers who were delayed. so the other thing that was in play and this is the airlines explanation told us through the statement the delay was compound by the fact that they had to replace the original crew with a fresh one because of rules limiting the crew's flight time. not allowed the have the same crew do this 12 hour shift and what's called a long haul shift the 16 hours of that flight to get to san francisco. what the airline was calling circumstances largely beyond their control.
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so it really does reveal a problem here brooke which is here in the united states the u.s. department of transportation prohibits airlines from keeping passengers on a plane for more than four hours leaving from the united states. those rules they don't apply to foreign carriers overseas. if it happened from san francisco that airline would have been fined a lot of money if they stayed on that plane more than three or four hours. not the case when it took off from abu dhabi. >> i thought i had it bad when my flight was cancelled on christmas eve. these people have me beat. suzanne malveaux, thank you very much. and we continue along, you're watching cnn, i'm brooke baldwin. heads up in a matter of minutes we're watching really closely for new york city mayor bill de blasio and new york city police commissioner bill bratton to be holding a news conference at police headquarters there in downtown manhattan. the mayor is expected to respond to this latest rejection from