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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  March 29, 2015 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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[ male announcer ] introducing xfinity my account. available on any device. thanks for watching the state of the union, i'm dana bash. -- captions by vitac -- this is "gps the public square." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have an important show today starting with yemen collapsing into chaos and becoming a war between iran versus saudi arabia. then the iran nuclear talks. the clock is tick king loudly.
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the deadline approaches. deal or no deal? also is islam a religion of peace? my next gust says no. on why her former religion needs a reformation similar to the one christianity had 500 years ago. and inside a silent war going on on college campuses across america. it's the war on the liberal arts. it's a terrible trend, so terrible i've written a book about it. i'll explain. finally, the most interesting man in the world has died. i'll give you my memories of the founding father of singapore and a man i got to know quite well over the last two decades. but first, here is my take. just months ago the white house
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was touting yemen and since then the government collapsed and an insurgency backed by iran gained ground. that insurgency is battling aagainst forces backed by the united states and saudi arabia which launched air strikes this week. meanwhile, jihad groups are jumping in to fill the vacuum of authority. this descent to chaos startled many observers but yemen's trajectory shouldn't surprise anyone. it follows a pattern in the arab world one we'll see in larger and more significant countries like egypt. yemen was ruled for 33 years by a dictator. he ruthlessly suppressed opposition groups especially those with a religious orientation and in this case the
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shiite. he co-op rat he cooperated with the war on terror but ensured over time descent would grow. his regime faced political and military opposition and eventually during the arab spring he was forced to reshine. while people both in yemen and washington promised a more representative government they quickly settled into a comfortable relationship with the former deputy who quickly began to rule as repress sievely as his predecessor. this is the pattern that produced terrorism in the arab world. repress sieve, secular regimes backed by the west become illegitimate. over time they become more repress sieve to survive and the opposition becomes more extreme, religious and violent. the insurgent and jihads have
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local grievances but because washington supports the dictators, the goals become anti american. since we learned little from this history, we are now repeating it. the obama administration praises the presidency. his regime killed hundreds of protesters and jailed tens of thousands mostly members of the political opposition according to human rights watch. it has sense of the press and impressened journalist. there was an american president who understood the danger of blind support for arab dictators. no matter they were admirably secular and their outlook willing to jail jihads or stay at peace with with israel. he said quote, 60 years of western nations excusing and accommodateing the lack of freedom in the middle east did nothing to make us safe. that was of course george w.
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bush. the fact that bush's administration so botched its remedy regime change and occupation of iraq should not blind us to the fact that it was accurate and intelligent in it's diagnosis of the problem. the arab world provides no easy answers. trapped as it is between repress sieve dictators and democrats. that does not mean blindly supporting the auto crats is the answer. with the military dictators and engages in joint military actions with the absolute monarchy of saudi arabia, we should be wondering what is going on in the shadows, mosques and jails of those countries. for more go to and read my washington post column this week and let's get started.
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okay. you heard my take on how history is repeating itself in yemen but the self war in yemen might bring us into a new face of history attacking the huthies and many worry this could become a great hot war. richard haas says whatever happens in yemen, we're in for 30 years of a kind of religious war in the middle east if not more. he is of course the president of the counsel on foreign relations. richard, explain what that would mean to be in a 30-year religious war and what are the u.s. options? >> several decades but definition of struggle in and across boarders. civil wars, approximateproxy wars all in
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one. they burn and burn and burn for a long time simply because of what drives them. for outsiders, you have to be willing to impose a settlement. we learned from iraq and afghanistan millions of troops of decades don't necessarily impose settlements or hope to help this side reinforce that side train another, arm another. the u.s. position is likely to be quite modest. >> what i was struck by in your piece is you point out that the saudis feel threatens. you think saudi arabia is vulnerable? >> i do. this is the second time they intervened in a meaningful way. now in yemen another neighbor. the saudis unlike syrup ya where they -- syria, they feel directly physically threatened by what is happening. what saudi arabia looks out to what is happening in yemen but
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more broadly, this group called the islamic state is a question of when and not if this group says hey, we have to challenge the country overseeing the two holey's states in the region. so i think that is coming. >> you also point out something which i think people have not focused enough on. iraq is really fragmenting into three separate countries. >> exactly. iraq is effectively breaking up. you have an iranian shia version and a sunni triable iraq. when do we give up the game? iran shia dominated iraq. the united states has to say we'll allow iranians to control southern and central iraq. the kurds, we'll support and we'll work with the arabs in the
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west with the sunnis and that might be the only way to reduce their aliening. >> you are describing a force fire where the united states has to play a modest role managing at the margins. >> absolutely. there won't be a one size fits all strategy in each country and subcountry. we'll have to choose the nature of intervention. sometimes direct. sometimes indirect. but i think we made a collective decision for the most part that we are not going to get centrally involved again. again, it will be more modest and selective as and as a result we have to understand that means less results. >> stay with me richard. when we come back we are going to talk about the fast approaching iran nuclear talks. that deadline for the deal is two days away. i want to talk about what a deal like this would look like and who would really benefit. we will discuss that when we come back. t-mobile can set you free.
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the nuclear talks with iran. march 31st which is tuesday is the cut off date that the west and iran set for themselves to come to a political agreement. a frame work for a final deal on iran's new clear program and today, israel's prime minister slammed the talks saying this agreement is fulfilling our deepest fears but just what is the agreement he's so worried about? that's what we're here to discuss. richard haass is the counsel on foreign relations with us. joining us is the president of the fund a man that's writ and studied deeply the top pick of nuclear weapons and energy. joe, what is the likely deal
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that you know that both excites some people and frustrating prime minister netanyahu. >> they are trying to cut off iran's pathways to the a bomb. make sure they can't transition quickly from a small civilian program to the a large military program. i think we can do that. the second is to have eyes everywhere. we have to install that so if iran tries to sneak out, we can detect it. third, a rapid response mek mechanism so we can catch iran cheating. if they fulfill the terms of the deal you loosen up. if they cheat snap it back in place. that is probably the most important point of this deal. it's worth negotiating today in switzerland. >> let's talk about the first point.
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how do you make sure they don't get from civilian to nuclear? that's basically about how much you can enrich the uranium and what level. you need a very small of highly enriched. how do you make sure the load in which uranium isn't high? >> the deal is going to slash iran's center fugues. they can spin iranian gas and can be used to make fuel or bombs. how do you make sure iran doesn't go from fuel to bombs? shrink the number. going from 20,000 which they have now to about 6,000. then you also shrink the gas supply. you get them to die lute or destroy most of that tonnage you talk about so it would take a year to go from where they are to enough material for one bomb.
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>> the cheating people say they cheated in the past. whole facilities they didn't know about. how do you make sure that isn't happening? you can only have cameras where they allow it. >> part of the deal is you want cameras everywhere seals, inspections, inventory controls track uranium from the mine to the gas cylinder. i spoke with the director general this last week and he said with the deal they are talking about, iaea can assure they can detect any anomaly the day it happens, next day or within the week. >> so if you get that kind of deal and i think it's possible do you think politically this would work this deal would get through? >> this deal will be attacked on both sides in iran. it doesn't allow iran to do enough and will be attacked in united states and arab countries that allows iran to do too much and keep too much and we won't have the confidence to discern the cheating soon
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enough. so we're going to have a debate whether this deal is good enough and compared to what? i think president obama is going to face real opposition within the u.s. congress and i think quite early on we could have a major debate in this country about either to accept the deal under one legislative initiative or secondly whether to introduce more sanctions at this point, which effectively would be a rejection of the deal. >> do you think the hard liners in iran will torpedo the deal there or hard liners in washington will torpedo the deal? >> iran is an authority system. he's going to have much more trouble selling it here. >> do you think that when you look at this potential deal do you believe it is possible for iran to the maintain this enormous nuclear program and yet, studiously stay within -- because it is trying to build
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more developed capacity you know can you be like japan, a very advanced power that is always consciously not weapon weaponizing weaponizing? >> we don't want iran to be in that japan situation, threshold power. japan can build a bomb in a hat matter of months if it wanted to. their technology we're talking about is 1970s technology they got from pakistan. part of the deal is they were limited on any research. so yes, you can put iran's program in a box with a camera on it. that is the deal that is being negotiated. what does iran get for that? that's part of the question that diplomats are dealing with today. >> you talk about the al turntive. we didn't have negotiations going on and iran built center fugues. >> or unconstrained middle east
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where iran is essentially allow allowed to get weapons and others would follow suite. these are unattractive alternatives. we don't want another war. we don't want to see the middle east get worse with nuclear weapons under multiple hands of control. some version of the status quo, more sanctions but we're not sure we can sustain it which pushes us back to say can we get a deal that's good enough and preferable vis-a-vis these al turn terntives. >> if we went down the bombing path how much would we bomb in four weeks of bombing? >> it's appalling to me this discussion goes on. this is not a pinprick attack. this would be weeks of hundreds of u.s. and a major war in the middle east that would make the wars in afghanistan and iraq look like warmup acts and region consequences. if you think iran has influence
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everywhere they will use that influence everywhere. this is not a war any military leader in the united states wants to fight. >> would you agree with that? >> like everything else in life it depends. want to fight, of course not. we can't live in a world where iran has nuclear weapons and other regions follow suit. that's dangerous. can you come up with a diplomatic alternative that's not perfect? that's not an option. again, is simply good enough and better than the alternatives because alternatives are not attractive. >> he's right. this is what you weigh it against. the deal will be imperfect. you never buy the house for the price you initially offer. there will be compromises. what are the alternatives? once you get the deal and look at it it's better than any risks in war or allowing iran to go ahead with an unconstrained program. >> gentlemen, thank you both very much. >> coming up, 500 years ago christianity had a ref formation.
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ice islam needs a similar reformation and she says it's not peace today. ensure active heart health. heart: i maximize good stuff like my potassium and phytosterols which may help lower cholesterol. new ensure active heart health supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. ensure, take life in. hello. i am a fully automated investment advisory service. i can help you choose investments. monitor them. and rebalance your portfolio. i can do a lot of what humans can. except have a real conversation. if you'd like that, you can always speak to someone at schwab. they aren't algorithms. try not to hold it against them. say hello at whether you need a warm up before the big race... or a healthy start before the big meeting there's a choice hotel that's waiting for you. this spring, choose choice twice,
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islam is not a religion of peace, that's what my next guest says ayaan hirsi ali has spoken out against radical islam since. he says islam needs a reformation on the scale that christianity had in the 16th century. indeed, martin luther had his 95
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that sparked the reformation and hirsi ali lays it out in her book "heretic." you say must lamblim is not a religion of peace. >> if you look at the reality today, you see tragically 70% of fatalities across the world in conflicts muslims are involved and the greatest numbers of muslims. the civilization is in a crisis and instead of having a military confrontation with every other civilization the answer lies in a reformation. >> so you disagree with president obama when he says the islamic state does not represent islam or he says it isn't islamic. i want to ask you this, you are
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a very smart and you understand he's not writing an intellectual dissertation. this is not a thesis about the accurate way to describe isis. he's trying to delegit miez him and the king of jordan says please don't call them islamic. we don't call them islamic. the point is not that any of these leaders don't see that of course they are drawing on a version of islam, but they are trying to delegitimize it. do you disagree with that strategy? >> i think the strategy of let's not call it islamic because we're going to delegitimize them we've seen it in the u.s. in the muslim world, perhaps in three or four or five decades ago and it hasn't worked. it hasn't stopped them.
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>> let me understand. so you would rather the president of the united states say yes, the islamic state is islamic and draws on important strains and islam is a bad religion. you think that's going to be a successful strategy? >> i don't think i'll have our president say islam is a bad religion but i'll have the president acknowledge we're fighting and the drones and insure gets and counter der ererterrorism tactics will take you so far. i want the president to acre knowledge like we were at war that we have amazing ideas, what america stands for. he gave a great speech and that's what america is about, and i think if we engage in public diplomacy and market the ideas of life and happiness as in the past we can persuade more and more muslims to give up five core concepts within islam that are holding them back.
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>> stay with this question though because i do agree with your diagnosis of the problem. i wonder though about the effectiveness of this idea of the west confronting the world of islam. do you think that the right strategies for the west you know an outside force, powerful. >> yeah. >> to say to the world of islam, you are all screwed up you need to fix yourself because in a sense, that's what many of the people who take the kind of views you do say and i wonder to myself look and you know this because you grew up in somalia. i was growing up in india. if you had an outside power like the united states and the west telling you you're all screwed up your attitude is actually the opposite to get very defensive. to say why you know to say there is nothing wrong with me. >> here is the statement i make in the book which is which it comes to the job of ocho a
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reformation, it has to come from within. someone born within islam and whether you like it or not or agree with me or not as a muslim. i can take these prosessions and propose these amendments. i'm not saying our western governments do the same but what the governments can do, what the west can do and the west is powerful and the west has choices but above all, the west has the values that made the west prosperous and peaceful. the west can choose our allyies and so far we alied ourself with the kingdom of saudi arabia. we've seen the results of that -- >> let me ask you something. >> -- we regret that and now there is this emerging group of reformers, and i think that is the key change that the west can make. the combination of offering accountive narrative in political freedom and economic freedom and alieying ourselves
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with those who share our values. >> ayaan hirsi ali great to have you on. >> great to see you. >> how to read deeply how to write compelling pros and analyze are skilling every human being needs to have if they are to thrive in the world. all you need to know how to do is code commuters. here about the war against the liberal arts when we come back.
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folks can make a lot more potentially with skilled manufacturing or the trades than they might with the art history degree. >> that was president obama in january of last year. he later sent a handwritten note of apology to the an art history professor that wrote to the president to complain about what he said. apology or not, the president's remarks struck me. i felt at the time and still do that the liberal arts are under
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attack. college students are increasingly being pushed away from majors like english and history and philosophy to a skill based one closer to engineering or computer science. to me, that trend is terribly short sided. i felt passionately about it i explained just why the liberal arts are so important. it received a pretty positive reaction to that and i turned it into a book. the book is called "in defense of a liberal education" and hits bookstores monday. joining me is a man that will turn the tables on me, my colleague anderson cooper. >> and a liberal arts major myself. i was relieved to read the book because i make fun of the education i received from yale a very good university but feel like i graduated without a skill and you write about this in the book. we heard from president obama but this is an issue it seems like republicans and democrats actually come together and agree on this. you're making the opposite case
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this a general liberal arts education is the best way for young people to prepare themselves for a care rear. why? >> this mantra about skills-based education achieve that rare status in washington. it's the one thing that democrats and republicans agree on the one thing obama and john boehner probably agree on but it's wrong. traditionally america has always believed unlike in europe where they always thought apprenticeship and skills and very specific job-based training we believed that ochoa broad base education is the best thing to do because you teach people how to think, read study, write and that those broad skills and most importantly, teach them to follow curiosity and to kind of love learning. that those broad skills are actually much more than the ones the purpose of a degree from a liberal education is not to train you for your first job but for your sixth job because
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what you need are these basic skills. if you want to do science and love science, that's part of a liberal education, but don't just do stuff because you think you'll learn the skills for that first job because life is going to change. you're going to be working for 40 or 50 years. >> i often found when you end up doing, the thing in your sixth job or whatever it is you could never have predicted given your first job where you were going to end up and to try to predict is going to lead you down the wrong path. >> and that's the genius of the american system where it allows people to have a breath so they start new companies, switch careers. there is a very interesting book about 19th century education where it points out one of the reasons america embraced this broad liberal education was it was a big country. people kept moving. they didn't want to get stuck in some trade in new york city or boston for the rest of their lives, and that's what the work today is. things change all the time. technology changes. if you learned coding ten years
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ago, it's obsolete today. >> i feel like every few months or year there is a new study that comes out and shows u.s. education falling far behind in rankings of other nations in math and science. does that matter? >> you know it's a really interesting question anderson because the truth is i looked into this. the truth is the united states has never tested well. >> compared to other countries, really? >> the tests started in 1964. that was the first international test was 1 down2 countries. the united states was middle of the pack. we still are. if you ask yourself how has the u.s. done in invasion research creating new industries? we've dominated the world. so there is this paradox where the united states doesn't test well in these science and math tests but continues to dominate the fields of technology and science and why is that? so i tried to sort of figure this out and looked and asked myself what are the really other
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envitivey tive innovative countries, sweden they say. it gets for funding than britain and germany. >> really? i didn't know that. >> israel there is this wonderful book called "startup nation." they have more nasdaq listed companies than any country other than the united states and china. this is you know, five or 6 million people. what i noticed is they also do very badly on these international tests. in fact, they do worse than the united states. but what do they have in common? they have non-hierarchy goal education systems. you can challenge the professor. you can follow your passion. you can ask questions. it's very flexible dynamic economy. the force would be best with strong math and science skills. maybe in creating real invasion what is equally or maybe more important is these other broader fact tomorrows that you know you can fail and still pick yourself up and question
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authority. you have confidence. >> we have to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk about what he learned from two guys that have done well for themselves. mark zuckerberg with facebook and more. "gps" will be back in a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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and we are back on "gps" where anderson cooper anchor of "360" is here with me on my new book "in defense of liberal education". >> it's interesting, i thought when i read the book you're defending a liberal arts education or you had but feel passionate about it but you look at a lot of high-tech people, zuckerberg mark zuckerberg, jeff basos of amazon. they put a lot in a liberal arts education and the ability to actually write, to learn how to
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write. he makes executives write long memos and zuckerberg credits his train income psychology as much as anything to do with technology for facebook. >> i thought that was the most fascinating piece for me when i talked to mark zuckerberg and asked him, you know what he thought made facebook distinctive, he said it's not the technology though technology has to be world class. he said that before facebook the internet was a land of anonymity. we can remember this it was anonymous or you had these handles that were there. he created a safe space and a much more powerful platform because people could trust and share information, real information and it's an advertisers dream because you know who these people are. that came out by his own admission, his interest in psychology. he was a psyc major and he
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studied studied studied greek. steve jobs said unveiling an iphone for apple, it's technology married to the liberal arts that makes our heart sing. >> and basos from amazon makes executives write six-page memos with a narrative with complete sentences and in meetings sometimes, there is a quiet time in the beginning where everybody has to read them and make notes about them. i think the ability to write is something that is so underrated by those who are just interested in the tech field or those interested in science or math. >> you know, i think the simplest way to explain it is say if you can't organize your thoughts and present them in a clear, logical form that's going to persuade somebody you can have the best tech idea in the world. you're not going to convince
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somebody to fund you. you're not going to convince a consumer to buy it. that's why basos does what he does. you describe it right. he begins all senior strategy meetings the way you describe. 20 to 30-minute period of quiet because in effect he's saying i don't want people to pretend they read the memo. i want to force you to actually read the memo. think about a the pressure on the memo writer. everybody is sitting there reading. it makes these memos really well written. his argument is if you can't write it clearly, logically, cleanly, you don't have a good idea. >> how much trouble, then are we in? when you look at statistics the trend is not toward liberal arts education. >> it's terrible. i mean if you look at majors like language history, philosophy they are plummeting down to 20 30% of what they used to be. it's not like we're becoming mechanical engineers or biologist because people's aptitude for science is limited.
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people instead are getting majors in marketing orbitz business studies. i don't mind if you have a true passion but don't do a marketing major to succeed in business. if you're passionate about english or history you can do just fine. >> what's your message to parents listening now sending their child off to college and paranoid their child will become a philosophy major? >> they should remember the chairman and ceo of the company of the company that owns cnn to say timewarner was a philosophy major at yale. >> good advice. i got to say, talking to you has given me hope i haven't completely wasted my four years at college. fareed thank you. >> anderson thank you. next on "gps," the most interesting man in the world for me has died. my thoughts on the founding father of singapore and why i
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people often ask me who is the most interesting political figure you ever interviewed? the answer to that question died last week and was put to rest today in a state funeral. what made lee kuan yew special? mean of great ideas are men of great action. lee was first class at both conception lizing and strike
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that gee and executing. he saw the big picture but could fill in details. singapore was an accident, a country that was not meant to be. a small british naval port abandoned by the navy after world war ii was part of malaysia but expelled from that country in 1965. it had a population of chinese malaysia and indians and no resources to speak of other than a young leader lee kuan kuan yew. he built so much so that today singapore is one of the world's richest and most advanced economies. singapore singapore's political system is closed with one party, lee's but courts are independent and administration is highly effective and regarded as clean by most international observers. it's economic system favors free markets and free trade, but with the government playing a large
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role in guiding, investing and encouraging at all levels. in an interview with him in 2008 i asked lee why he exercised so much political control over his society. what >> what is it i'm trying to do? i'm trying to create in a third world situation a first world oasis. i'm not following democracy or whatever. i work from first principles what will get me there. social peace and stability within the country. no fight between the races, between religions, whatever. fair shares for all. everybody is a homeowner. must i follow your prescription to succeed? do i want to be like america?
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yes, in it's inventiveness and creativeness, but do i want to be with america, like america with it's inability to control the drug problem? no. or the gun problem? no. these are my choices. i go by what is good governance what are the things i aim to do. healthy society that gives everybody a chance to achieve its maximum. >> lee also had to maintain a careful balancing act between the united states china and other powers to keep his city state independent. i asked him a question about foreign policy that remains pert innocent. what do you want from the next president? >> engagement with the world. keep trade going. don't backtrack or put yourself
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at a disadvantage or you'll make conflicts more likely. try and maintain a balance so that peace and stability is assured without more conflicts. >> lee was asked questions about his personal life as he was with politics. you turn 85 tomorrow. is there a lesson, what are the secrets to longtivety and success? >> your life span depends on what you inherited from what you got from your mother and father. my father lived to 94. my mother died at 74 with some heart problems. i had my first heart problem when i was 74 in 1996. fortunately, unlike her time they could do an angioplasty and
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solved it. day before yesterday, a flutter. i don't think i'll reach my father's 94. >> he was right. lee kuan yew died on march 23th at the age of 91 and that is our show today. thanks to you for being part of it. i'll see you next week. -- captions by vitac -- and good morning. i'm frank sesno sitting in for brian stelter. from the plane crash in the appleapp app -- alps but first, the crash of germanwings 9525 and we start with breaking news on the final moments of the flight. new details from the