tv At This Hour With Berman and Bolduan CNN April 1, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PDT
lufthansa knew and they let him fly anyway. a stunning revelation about co-pilot andreas lubitz and his battle with depression and new reports of the video showing the final moments of germanwings flight 9525. >> will he or won't he sign on? the governor of arkansas in the spotlight as he's set to announce his next move this hour. after state lawmakers approved a law similar to indiana's that has critics and protesters saying allows for discrimination against gays. >> iran nuclear talks in overtime. are we on verge of an historic deal or a diplomatic collapse that could lead to even stricter sanctions? a lot going on this morning. i'm john berman. >> i'm kate bolduan. as john said, there is a lot going on.
major political news going on this hour. we expect to know whether arkansas will join indiana this week in adopting a religious freedom bill that sparked outrage. >> asa hutchinson is facing ee nrm us new pressure in light of what happened in indiana. at 11:30 eastern, he'll have a news conference. we'll take you there live. it was approved by the arkansas legislature yesterday similar to indiana's. also similar to indiana, the measure has prompted backlash among business, especially this business. retail giant walmart. it's based in arkansas, they have come out against the measure. walmart urging the governor to veto, not sign on to the bill. >> walmart, the biggest private employer in that state. that's a big deal. also at this hour. new ddl's in indiana concerning their version of the bill. that state's governor pledged a fix and clarify that the law
there does not allow for discrimination. cnn has learned when we might see the new language that he's proposing or being proposed there. joining us now is cnn correspondent rosa flores in indianapolis. what's the fix and when are we going to hear about it? >> a very interesting dynamic with politics and language. it's all about the language used to clarify this law and the language used to talk about clarifying this law. now, let me tell you something, right now the governor just finished a meeting, a closed-door meeting with republican leadership where they talked about the language, about what's going to happen. we caught up with the speaker of the house right after. here's what he had to say. >> still hope to have this completely resolved tomorrow. so that takes work, hard work and a lot of discussion and we're actively talking not just with the governor but members of
the corporate and sports community. i've had a couple of meetings with lgbt folks and i think we're moving in the right direction to clarify and preserve religious freedom and dispel the myth that this denies service to any category. >> reporter: now, you heard him say we expect this to be "completely resolved by tomorrow tomorrow." my follow-up question was does that mean this new law will be on the desk of the governor's office? and they said no. it doesn't mean that. again, language being used to clarify other language. very convoluted at this point in time john and kate, but we'll be following it. >> the problem is one of perception not reality, which is interesting too. we'll be following that. there is also this at this hour. two major developments in the investigation into the germanwings airline crash.
the ceo of lufthansa, visited the crash site this morning. this as the airline says the co-pilot, andreas lubitz had reported to them that he had battled severe depression. this is the first time that the airline acknowledged knowing about really any medical conditions that lubitz suffered from before the crash. meanwhile, the german daily publication, bild and paris match, they're reporting that there is a video showing final moments on board the flight before the crash. the paper is reporting a memory card was recovered from the wreckage site. that video has not been released publicly. but here's the editor of bild describing what they have seen. >> we saw the video with our colleagues and it was kind disturbi disturbing, upsetting material. it's shot in the cabin. it shows that there was a lot of chaos going on. the people apparently were very much aware of where this was
heading. it seems to document that there was a metallic bang on what sounds like a metallic bang on a door, which is kind of in line with results of the previous investigation that say that the pilot was trying to break into the cockpit. >> the french prosecutor says this video is not authentic. that none of the cell phones found at the crash site have been sent for analysis at this point. obviously a critical discrepancy. let's bring in fred pleitgen. fred, two major developments over the last 24 hours. the news that andreas lubitz suffered from depression and told them about it and this report of a video out there. >> reporter: absolutely. two major developments. if we start with what lubitz told the company, when he was trying to become a pilot, this was from the year 2009 when he was at the pilot academy of lufthansa, in the city of bremen. remember that lufthansa early on
said during his pilot training, that he took several months or. they never elaborated exactly why that happened. there seems to be an e-mail that he wrote to the folks there at that training academy where he told them that he had suffered a previous bout of psychological problems. so this was something that was on record that was in e-mails, lufthansa came out yesterday. they went back, checked their files and given all of this to the investigating authorities. of course, both the ones in germany as well as the ones in france as well. the interesting thing about all this is, of course, afterwards he then did become certified to become a pilot. he was allowed to complete his training. he then became certified as a pilot and he also passed all of his physicals since then. we know later, in the lead up to the crash in france, that he then was seeing professionals again, that he had psychological trouble at that time as well. it seems as though the
psychologist that he was using are saying he was not suicidal and didn't pose a danger to other people either. certainly, interesting revelations. that lufthansa ceo that was there this morning at the crash site, he was asked by journalists there about all of this. about when lufthansa knew about this ee fail and he didn't want to give an answer at that time. >> fred flight again, following the developments there. really interesting stuff that needs to be dug into deeper, i think. thanks, fred. >> fred, thanks so much. happening in switzerland, overtime, the crucial talks about iran and its potential ability to build a nuclear wep on. they were extended yesterday. >> secretary of state kerry is there in discussions. several diplomats have other countries have already left. >> a short time ago, the british foreign secretary said a broad framework had been reached and the chancellor of germany hoped for a compromise at some point today. chief national security
correspondent jim sciutto is live with more. watching the day-to-day details, jim, of where the sticking points are and where the negotiations stand has been a challenge to say the least. what are you hearing? they've past the self-imposed deadline. >> i'm reluctant to use the word deadline because so many deadlines are passed or changed. already, we had yesterday's midnight deadline pass into today. there's some talk, we've heard this from iranian negotiators of the talks moving to tomorrow. keep in mind, this deadline was a self-imposed one. it was set by the west for a general political or framework agreement you see up on the air right now. some of the sticking points that still remain, including limits on iran able to research and develop advanced centrifuges to spin uranium. we also have to look today at a watering down of what to expect if they do come to an agreement,
whether today or tomorrow. now i'm hearing that really what you're going to hear announced is a statement of goals in the talks as we advance towards the oher deadline on june 30th. goals, nothing agreed to on paper signed by the iranian side. that sounds like less than many were expecting at least in this round of negotiations. jim, is there unity between the five major powers or is the u.s. on a limb? it's odd to me that so man others have up and left and left secretary of state john kerry there. >> it's a great point, john. you have seen, we have seen fish sures, mine or fissures in the western side, also in past ones, particularly the french foreign minister who at times has at least publicly made a stand saying we have to be tougher, we have to push the iranians more. that could be good cop/bad cop in the negotiations. you have seen that.
now you're seeing some foreign ministers leaving which helps feed the sense that they're not really going to sign a piece of paper even in they agree in the next 24 hours or so. they'll make a statement of goals and leave the tough issues for the next three months of negotiations. that sets you up for the june 30th deadline for final agreement. john, you look at the calendar, a lot of the deadlines have passed. you look at the screen and you see the differences, particularly on sanctions relief, on r&d. here's a calendar that shows where we are just past that march 31st deadline. then you have another three months to get to a final agreement. like i said, a lot of deadlines have been passed or extended. i'm loath at this point to call any deadline hard-and-fast. >> absolutely. where is the patience in terms of backyard home amongst the members of congress watching this very, very closely. what do they think of a path deadline or nonexistent deadline
as we reach the end of march. >> good questions. ahead for us, the defense said tamerlan led and his younger brother followed. will the jury buy it? the latest in the boston marathon bombing trial. a closer look at the crash of germanwings 9525. when did lufthansa know about his depression and what did they do about it and what does it mean for the investigation now? caring for someone with alzheimer's means i am a lot of things. i am his sunshine. i am his advocate. so i asked about adding once-daily namenda xr to his current treatment for moderate to severe alzheimer's. it works differently. when added to another alzheimer's treatment, it may improve overall function and cognition. and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. vo: namenda xr doesn't change how the disease progresses. it shouldn't be taken by anyone allergic to memantine,
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accused of downing the flight 9525 had battled depression in the past. that andreas lubitz told the flight training school all about it back in 2009. >> let's discuss this and the other major developments coming through on this crash. right now, we'll bring in a aviation analyst. miles, let's talk to you about this. the airline acknowledging for the first time that lubitz did report that he had battled with severe depression, this could coincide with that gap in his training when he came back reporting that he had been battling this. does this change the game in terms of the investigation at all for you? >> it certainly under scores a lot of concerns those of us in this world of aviation have about these low-cost carriers. what was the follow-up once it was divulged? evidently not very much. he evidently went back into training and flying. there's an important point here.
the people that go through this cadet program ultimately have to pay back the airline for their training once they get a job flying an airbus. so there's a real disincentive for the airline to scrub somebody out. they won't get their money back. >> wow. >> this is all part of this low-cost pressure on the airlines, which unfortunately, tries to press the pilots as much as possible. take money out of their pocket and add to their stress levels in every way. >> mary, it's interesting, there's been criticism of the self-reporting system that you couldn't count on pilots to self-report if they had problems with mental health issues. well, in this case the guy did self-report apparently at least early on, so the question is what then was done with the information? is this problem truly systemic now? >> certainly it is. i think miles is absolutely right. lufthansa pretty much gave away the fact that they didn't do anything by in the initial press
conferences saying no, the pilot was great, there were no problems, he was perfectly 100% good to fly. only later did this memo surface that he had advised them of that. you can fly if you have depression but it depends on the level of depression and most importantly, two things. one it can be successfully treated with one approved drug. the drugs are limited. prozac, zoloft, lexapro and celexa. you can't mix the drugs and the airline has to monitor you and if there's any suicidal ident y ideation. if you mention suicide, you're grounded. we'll see what lufthansa has done about that in the interim. we don't know. >> it's in conflict to the original statements from the airline that he was 100% fit to fly, he passed every medical exam they had for him. let's turn our attention to the other development, major development with so much
question and discrepancy around this cell phone video that they say two newspapers, one in germany and one in paris saying that they've seen cell phone video from a memory card recovered from the crash site. mary, the prosecutor's office says that's not true, none of the cell phone video, nothing has been recovered and analyzed yet. what do you make of this? >> i think the prosecutor's office might be out of the loop. i've worked on other crash cases where we've this cell recoveries, laptop recovery and video recoverable. it's possible and probable. particularly here where it doesn't appear that much of the wreckage suffered any fire at all. it's entirely probably this is the real thing. the question is did they steal it from the crash site, tampering with evidence, an active murder scene investigation. this property belongs to someone and in the united states, it is the law that the passenger's property must be collected and they're doing this in france by
the way today, collecting the passenger's property and returned to the family. >> there's a lot of explaining to do as to how this came into the hands of whoever has it. >> miles, this brings up a good point, a bit of a conundrum for we in the media. there's finger pointing about leaks in this investigation. who leaked the cell phone video, if it's authentic, who has been leaking stories about the cockpit voice recorder to various outlets here. in your opinion, has this investigation been handled in a fairly tight, organized way, or is this a bit of a mess? >> well, you know, you're never going to get me to say a leak is a bad thing. i'm a journalist, i like leaks. frankly, i feel like investigations like this move a lot slower than the appetite for information these days. we live in a 24-hour news cycle. you know, we still haven't seen a cockpit voice recording from the airasia crash.
that's more typical. how the investigation was stone walled. there's a lot of pressure from the media to get information. but that's because the world needs to know. wants to know what's going on here. and we need transparency in the investigations. if investigators won't do it, the media will step into the void, which is what is happening here. this is a bit unfortunate. of course, they haven't seen the video. let's remember, we haven't seen it. we've talked about it. it sounds awful. it sounds horrible. i shudder to think what the families must think. the bottom line, this will accrue to their bottom line. people like mary can build a better case based on the suffering these poor people went through. >> interesting points. myles o'brien, thanks so much. i couldn't agree more. it's our business to get the information we get when we get it. >> myles, mary, thank you.
congress watching closely, new sanctions looming as talks over iran's nuclear program dragon past the deadline. how is capitol hill weighing in now? you know i tried one of those but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting picker upper
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the way. >> so what happens if there is no deal? no framework? where will the u.s. or specifically congress go from there? let's ask someone in congress. congressman steve israel, a democrat from new york. thanks for being with us, sir. >> thank you very much. >> i'm going to color you as a skeptic of this deal from the beginning. you're not someone who has jumped up and down at the prospect of reaching an agreement with iran here. now that this deadline which was stated by the white house, this march 31st deadline, which the white house and state department created, now that we're past that date, how much more patient are you willing to be? >> look, your definition, your description of me is accurate. i have been skeptical about this. i know that the baseball season is about to start and in baseball you get to go into extra innings for as long as it takes. this is not a baseball game. this is not the baseball season. this is a critically important nuclear deal. and the negotiations cannot go on forever. we need to figure out whether we
have a deal or not and then when we do, then we have to figure out what's in the deal and congress has a right to review and either approve or disapprove it. >> where does forever end for you at this point? we've passed one deadline. we may get a general statement at some point today maybe. where does forever end? >> look, in my view forever ended some time ago. i think it would be very, very hard for the administration to make the case past today to members of congress and to others that they should get more time to do this. at a certain point, given the magnitude of the issue, the administration and world powers either have a deal or don't and we move in either direction. >> move on in either direction. forever ends today is what you just told us. now that forever is over or about to be over, what then are you going to do about it in congress? are you going to vote for sanctions next week? >> i think we lost our
connection. >> congressman, can you hear us? >> looks like we need to re-establish communication with the congressman. we'll be right back after this. y transferred money from his bank of america savings account to his merrill edge retirement account. before he opened his first hot chocolate stand calling winter an "underserved season". and before he quit his friend's leaf-raking business for "not offering a 401k." larry knew the importance of preparing for retirement. that's why when the time came he counted on merrill edge to streamline his investing and help him plan for the road ahead. that's the power of streamlined connections. that's merrill edge and bank of america. nascar® driver.rs, i'm kevin nealon, comedian. and i'm arnold palmer, professional golfer.
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push for more sanctions in the coming weeks? >> yes. because sanctions have worked. sanctions have been so effective that they are exactly what brought the iranians to the bargaining table. i fundamentally disagree with the notion that when you're in a position of strength you begin to throttle back. if there is no deal, i think that we should increase sanctions. they've been working up to now. they will work in the future. then maybe we can get better terms on the deal. >> real quick, congressman, before we let you go. what's the definition of a deal? they might come out with a general statement today. does that -- does a general statement without specifics sound like a deal to you? >> no. as far as i'm concerned, we don't have a deal until we have the details. a framework is not the details. >> congressman steve israel, thank you very much. it's always great to have you on. a very important conversation. heads back to capitol hill as soon as we hear what's going on. >> we're not going to get the details today even if they announce something. not likely to be the details. interesting to have a democrat
say there's no deal in his mind. >> congressman, thank you so much. at any moment now, we're expecting to hear from the governor of arkansas. asa hutchinson who will decide, we're expecting him to announce if he's going to sign on to a religious freedom bill in his state. if he signs on, arkansas will join 20 other states who have taken on this measure. most importantly, this week, we know indiana, the governor of indiana signed a similar bill into law and we've all seen the backlash and the outrage that ensued following that. >> cnn's victor blackwell on the ground in little rock where governor hutchinson about to make news one way or the other. also joining us political analyst gloria boringer. >> john, kate, good morning. in a couple of minutes we're ging to hear from the governor of the state, asa hutchinson on his decision on signing this bill. during the time the legislature was considering this, he said he was going to sign it.
i spoke with his office, they said also he's going to sign it. inside the room we have the cameras, you can see, with members of the media, members of legislature, both parties here, i can see a couple steps away, the minority leader of the house. right outside the door of governor's reception room are protesters, some with signs who say the bill would not as the governor say and the sponsor protect the religious liberties but be a thin veil to discriminate against the lgbt community in this state. they have said this would also cause economic issues for the state. we've heard from walmart, the ceo saying it undermines the spirit of inclusion across the state. the mayor of little rock says it's divisive that some have more protection than others. the little rock nine who integrated says it's dangerous
and derogatory. we're expecting the governor to take a few questions to explain his view on this bill. again, his office said he will sign this bill 1228. john, kate? >> victor, stand by for us. he's in the room. we'll keep our eye there. let's bring in gloria borjer. >> are the political dynamics in arkansas any different from what we're seeing in indiana? >> you know, i think in many ways what republicans are dealing with is their successes in state legislatures during the obama years. now you see republican presidential contenders, what are happening in state legislatures that are dominated by republicans across country. this puts them in somewhat of a bind as we saw yesterday with mike pence and republican presidential candidates supporting mike pence. but on the other hand, the
republican party wants to be open tent to a degree, a la ronald reagan. they've got a lot of conservatives in state legislatures across the country who are going to do what they want and put them on the spot very early in this campaign before most of them have declared their candidacies. >> what's interesting to me is the -- in indiana you had angie's list stopping projects and pulling money out of indianapolis. >> huge employer in that state. >> in arkansas, walmart, right? >> please don't do this. >> let me read the statement from arkansas. from walmart in arkansas. they said the passage of hb 1228 threatens to undermine the spirit of inclusion present throughout the state of arkansas and does not reflect the values we uphold. for mees reasons, we're asking the governor to veto the legislation. clearly, they disapprove of the legislation.
the question in arkansas, i don't believe we've seen it yet, will businesses start to act with their money? will they pull money out and stop giving business to that state? >> i think if you look at indiana, you look at the issues occurring there, simultaneously, i think you have to take a look at arkansas and say that you would conclude that the same thing would start to happen in arkansas. again, you know, these are the conflicts you see inside the republican party, the establishment, chamber of commerce, if you will, wing of the republican party, pro-business and conservative, evangelicals in the party who believe that their religious freedom is threatened who do not support gay marriage, for example. and i think that this is going to continue to play out over and over again. and what's so interesting to me, as you look at the republican party versus the public as a whole, you'll see there are a
couple of -- there are a couple of polls that j just been done, there's a new survey by the "wall street journal" showing that 59% of americans now support gay marriage. you know, that's a large, high number. it's a lower number among republicans, it's only about 40% among republicans. but here's what's interesting. here's what's going on in the republican party. when you do a demographically, 60% of young republicans support gay marriage. so this is a party that's changing and the demographics, as the demographics of the party changes, it's going to be interesting to watch to see what happens to the religious light in this party. >> all right. gloria, sta gloria, stand by here. we're looking at the podium where we're going to hear from governor asa hutchinson with regard to what he's going to do
with the bill passed or the law passed in arkansas. we know what happened in indiana. yesterday the governor there, mike pence came out and said they're going to fix the bill there, the religious freedom act to make clear to people that it does not allow -- >> the governor is -- >> governor asa hutchinson. >> good morning. i wanted to invite speaker gillam and president dismay to join me if they're in the audience there. i appreciate our legislative leaders and how they've conducted themselves throughout the session. and including this process. as everyone knows, house bill 1228 is now on my desk. and it's time for me to take a look at it and make some comments in reference to it. this is a bill that in ordinary times would not be
controversial. but these are not ordinary times. this bill is not really complicated. the bill itself restates the standard of review for the courts to consider in determining first amendment privileges as weight against the compelling interest of the state. that's simply stated as a summary as to what this legislation does. it's a balancing test. the bill itself does not pick winners and losers. it balances two competing constitutional obligations that our founding fathers gave to us. but the issue has become divisive because our nation remains split on how to balance the diversity of our culture with the traditions and firmly held religious convictions. it has divided families and
there is clearly a generational gap on this issue. my son seth signed the petition asking me, dad, the governor, to veto this bill. and he gave me permission to a make that reference, and it shows that families and there's a generational difference of opinion on these issues. so where are we now in reference to this legislation? i have asked through this process of our legislative leaders and members that certain changes be made. in some instances they were accommodated in change and other instances they said no. that's the balance between the executive and the legislative branch. i certainly respect those bodies. it's been my intention all along that house bill 1228, the religious freedom restoration act, be crafted in a way that
mirrors the federal religious freedom and restoration act that was passed in 1993 and signed by president clinton. i came to congress after that, but i sat on the judiciary committee and the house of representatives that considered these amendments, had hearings on this federal religious freedom of restoration act. and so i'm somewhat familiar with it. and how it's played out across the country. it was my intention, because the federal law doesn't cover state causes of action that we have a similar law in arkansas. but we wanted to have it crafted similar to what is at the federal level. to do that, though, changes needed to be made. the bill that is on my desk at the present time does not precisely mirror the federal law. it doesn't mirror it in a couple of ways, particularly allowing
the first amendment to be asserted in the private litigation between parties or the reliance upon the state law and those claims. therefore, i asked that changes be made in the legislation. i've asked that the leaders of the general assembly to recall the bill so that it can be amended to reflect the terms of the federal religious freedom and restoration act. in the alternative, it can be simply have some language changes so that those accommodations and changes can be made. so recall the legislation or having additional legislation that would accomplish those changes. again, this is difference between the executive branch, the legislative branch, we all have our responsibilities and our different viewpoints. my responsibility is to speak out on my own convictions and to
do what i can, as governor, to make sure this bill reflects the values of the people of arkansas, protects those of religious conscience. but also, minimizes the chance of discrimination in the workplace and in the public environment. it is important to recognize that the bill currently drafted does not change who we are. it does not change the current protections against discrimination. this bill simply defines the standard to determine the right balance. but how do we as a state communicate to the world that we are respectful of diverse workplace and we want to be known as a state that does not discriminate but understands tolerance. that is the challenge that we face. making this law like the federal
law will aid us in that effort in communication, but also it was my original objective from the beginning. another option is that we're looking at is to utilize an executive order, which interestingly has not been utilized from my research from the executive branch in state government in terms of protecting against discrimination in the workplace for state government. but we're looking at an executive order to aid in that communication and make it clear that arkansas wants to be a place of tolerance, we want to be a place that has the right balance between religious protections and religious freedom and nondiscrimination. also, i think we can be shurd that this will continue to be a robust debate in the future. i understand a ballot title has
been approved by the attorney general that may put on the ballot an extension of the civil rights protection to additional classes of citizens of arkansas. that debate will continue and ultimately be determined by the people of this state, either through their legislative body or through a vote of the people. so this conversation does not end. i've expressed my view to the legislature. it is up to them to respond to the request of the governor that changes be made in the current bill to make it reflect the federal law that i think sets the right tone for arkansas and its future. we'll look at additional action down the road as needed. partly depending upon the action that the legislature might take. with that, i'll see if the president has any comments. >> thank you, governor. first, let me say that i support
a -- in this session. i think the majority of both chambers support a rifra being passed this session. i think there are some complications and if i'm just being blatantly honest, i've been in the middle of the budget debate probably as much as anything else the last few days. i'd asked brief questions about the language we were passing and felt like we were mirroring and actually given assurances that we were mirroring that federal -- >> you heard asa hutchinson make a remarkable announcement. he's calling on the state legislature to recall the religious freedom act that they have passed. that some people say would allow for discrimination against gays and lesbians in private businesses. the reason he gives is it is too different from the federal law. he wants to see them brought more closely in touch. i thought the most remarkable thing is he said his own son
actually signed a petition asking him to veto that bill. >> to that exact point, john, this is a key part where this governor is trying to talk about the balance and the difficult spot that these governors and these states, state legislatures have where he says our nation remains split on how to balance the diversities of our culture with the traditions of firmly-held religious convictions. that sums up where the debate is. the breaking news is the governor, some had expected would sign this billow owe. >> even now. >> which is on his desk. he says he believes there needs to be changes, that he's asking the legislature to recall it and to change the measure before they send it back to him. a lot to discuss here. let's bring in gloria borger, she's with us. and jeffrey tubin is joining us on the phone. gloria, i want to get to you first. the governor was trying to strike a distinction that he
said this measure in arkansas was not similar enough to the federal law that he was comfortable signing on to. >> this was political double-talk. there is only one issue going on here, which is whether private businesses should be allowed in the state of arkansas as in indiana, as in georgia, where these controversies are going on. do these individuals allow private businesses to not do business with gay people. that's what these days are about. the idea that you can compromise and find some language that allows people to not do business with gay people and also protect them from nondiscrimination -- from discrimination, it's impossible. there are no compromises available here. people either can do -- can refuse to do business or they
can't. all these politicians trying to pretend that there's some middle ground, there's none. and that's why none of these amendments so far have succeeded. >> jeffrey, help me understand this more. there are people who say that the intent largely of the religious freedom act when it was passed in the clinton administration was to protect native americans who want to wear a headdress. >> go to public school. >> could you keep that part of it and specifically annunciate that this bill would not be used as a course to discriminate against gays and lesbians. could you do that? >> perhaps. but that wouldn't get much support in arkansas. that's the whole purpose of the bill. i don't see anyway that such an amendment would pass. remember, the federal law only covers the federal government. it only says the federal
government cannot impose on people's religious beliefs. it says nothing about private business. trying to let florists and photographers and the people we've all been talking about for several weeks -- letting them discriminate is not something that was covered by the federal law at all. so it really is not much of a valid comparison. >> gloria, i want you to jump in on this. jeff toobin calls it political double-speak. i want to understand what you think this is. i think at the very least, john and i were talking, it shows the enormous amount of pressure that this governor clearly saw coming at him. >> well, yeah, governors respond to business in their states. and when a business like walmart says, sorry, folks, we don't want this, you have no choice but to listen. i think what the governor also said was striking to me because
we had talked about it a little bit before he came out. he said, these are not ordinary times, in fact, this is the new ordinary. and the new times are that members of the republican party, this is a governor who said he was lobbied by his own son to veto the bill. that the republican party itself is changing. there is the evangelical right who believes that these laws ought to be passed. but it is a new world. and when you see in this pew poll that i was talking about that 61% of young republicans are now in favor of gay marriage, that you see how the republican party is having a very difficult time trying to figure out how it positions itself in a general election in which they know very well they need to broaden the tent. the governor of this state is not running for the presidency. the governor of this state is just trying to keep business in
this state and trying to keep peace. i agree with jeff. i think it's very difficult to figure out a way around the elephant in the room here. he didn't outright veto it. this doesn't mean, though, that down the road he won't say, you didn't fix it, and i'm going to have to veto it. >> we don't know what solution they're going to come up with. %-pt this governor has reversed statements he made just in the last few days. he said he was going to sign this. today, he's not signing it. and it shows the political pressure. thank you jeff and gloria, so much. ahead for us, why was he allowed to fly? that's what many folks are asking. lufthansa now say they knew the co-pilot on that downed plane battled severe depression. they also gave him the green light to fly.
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lufthansa, the parent company of germanwings, now admits that lubitz did tell the airline about his battle with severe depression, though in the past. >> want to bring in arthur caplan, head of medical ethics at nyu. this is the very definition of medical ethics. where is the line between public interest and private -- >> if you think someone is a danger to themselves or others, including flying an airplane with 149 people on it that they might harm them, you have to report it. we've had that standard in place since 1975 in the u.s. many cases of people saying, i'm going to harm somebody by rifle or i'm going to go after my girlfriend. courts have said again and again, you must disclose, you can't invoke privacy. and that standard's been adopted by psychiatrists, doctors, psychologists all around the world. >> does the time line matter here? if he had been battling and
reported this battle with severe depression back in 2009, 2008, the crash happened last week. what about that time line difference? >> presumably he would be in therapy. but you'd take steps -- it's what we do when we have someone with a mental illness, you're always watched. you always have a partner. you're not left alone in the cockpit. that should never happen. yeah, you can go back to work, but you have to be with a partner. >> but a current doctor, right? he reported it to lufthansa, his doctor said he was severely depressed and even had suicidal tendencies way back in 2009. do current doctors then have to remind lufthansa in 2015, hey, this guy -- >> because they have that letter he never gave up that said he was not fit to fly. >> 100%, yes. you have to continue to say, this guy's a risk, he's in a very sensitive occupation. if you're unsure, we have to pull him out, do more therapy and evaluation of him. you absolutely have a duty to
warn all the way along. >> a lot of folks are talking about this question of self-reporting and where is the burden going to be or should there be more transparency in terms of the health and well-being of pilots when they have such an important job with lives in their hands? how much transparency do you think professionals are going to allow in terms of, if it is mandated that a doctor has to report to their employer? >> not much. what will happen is this, if you say, everything gets reported right to your employer, there's no danger of being fired or grounded or loss of pay, they're going to use false names and go off the books. they'll find ways to go around without having the employer know. so better carrots than sticks. let them know they go into early retirement, there's protections out there for them to still get their salary when they're in treatment. but if you say, everything you say here is going right to the employer and it's mandatory, i'm telling you, people will do what they always do. they show up with a phony name, they go off their insurance plans or doesn't register and they pay cash.
and they duck it. >> that's why the system top to bottom has to be reviewed? >> absolutely. >> thanks for being with us. >> thank you all for joining us. >> "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts now. hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." a week and a day since that horrible plane crash in the french alps. and now some evidence, some video evidence of just how remote and removed this crash site is now eight days later, are we getting a very close-up view via some video of the germanwings wreckage from the actual ground. take a look at this. you had heard days ago there was nothing left of this plane that was at least the size of a car or larger. and that is the pure evidence there. it is all