tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN April 1, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PDT
they pay cash. and they duck it. >> that's why the system top to bottom has to be reviewed? >> absolutely. >> thanks for being with us. >> thank you all for joining us. >> "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts now. hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." a week and a day since that horrible plane crash in the french alps. and now some evidence, some video evidence of just how remote and removed this crash site is now eight days later, are we getting a very close-up view via some video of the germanwings wreckage from the actual ground. take a look at this. you had heard days ago there was nothing left of this plane that was at least the size of a car or larger. and that is the pure evidence there. it is all located in the series
of narrow ravines deep in the alps where you just can't get to except for a brand-new road that they've been able to carve out. the challenge goes two ways. it's hard to get people in and extra hard to bring pieces of the plane and also the remains of the 150 people who were on board. notice how these recovery workers are handing pieces of the plane, notice how the entire recovery process is happening by hand, one piece at a time. you pan over, all of a sudden you see, they're just tossing these pieces onto a pile. eventually that pile will be relocated. and now despite two newspapers insisting that they have seen actual video of the crash taken from a telephone inside the airplane, french officials are
really debunking it saying, quote, absolutely not. the footage does not exist, end quote. well, the cell phone video found by someone at the scene leaked apparently to reporters. at this point, it's really a question of when the investigators are going to be able to get to the bottom of it if perhaps the video exists and the investigators don't all have it or if in fact none of it exists. but it is two different media websites. and this today from the ceo of german airlines lufthansa, the parent company of germanwings. he visited the memorial to the people who died. when his employee, that co-pilot, intentionally crashed that plane last tuesday. our karl penhaul is near the crash scene right now in the french alps and also with me is aviation analyst mary schiavo. karl, some of the first video to come out of the search efforts on the ground, up close and personal where we're seeing some of the wreckage, they are literally raking through the
dirt at this point. and it just reminds me so much of the recovery efforts of 9/11. can you take me through the process of what they're doing to get the remains of the plane and the remains of the people to the places they have to be? >> reporter: yeah, absolutely, ashleigh. i think it's interesting to see that video because i actually hiked up to that crash zone a few days ago. it is very rugged mountain and very difficult to get there. but that video gives us an impression how tough it is. the recovery workers at some point almost seem to be clinging on with their fingernails because the side of that valley is so steep. you also may see that expert mountaineers are working in pairs with the investigator just to keep them safe and stop them falling down. there is a little bit of good news because last night, talking to commanders of these recovery units, they say that all the visible human remains have probably now been collected. they're moving into a phase where from between now and sunday, they hope to recover all
the personal possessions that have been lying around, things like id cards, luggage, perhaps even some jewelry that has been lying around as well. and as you rightly mentioned, you also see some of these recovery crews in the new video starting to rake, starting to probe. that is for a very good reason because now investigators have a hunch that one of the black boxes may have been buried because of the speed of the impact. let's listen to what they say. >> translator: we may still have two days' work to recover, body parts still at the site. then we'll begin recovering personal belongings. by sunday and monday, we should have gathered up all the personal possessions. we'll then begin to rake everything to see if the black box has been buried. >> reporter: we also put the commanders of these recovery units, these allegations that perhaps some cell phone video had been recovered from that
crash. and that is what "bild" and "paris match" magazine were trying to describe in their publications. but commanders of the recovery units are categorical. they say to us, yes, we have recovered parts of cell phones and cell phones. but those cell phones have not yet had any data extracted from them because they are still here close to the crash zone. they have not yet been sent to paris for crash investigators to extract the data. that is why they do not believe that the information that a cell phone video of the timing of the crash actually exists, ashleigh. >> karl, stand by for a moment. i want to get mary schiavo on this. is there any possibility in a crash investigation that somewhere along the chain of custody of these pieces of wreckage, that one of those memory cards from a phone might have been looked at on the phone of a rescuer who then may have shown it later to a reporter and it's just ultimately in an
evidence bag on its way somewhere? is that a possibility? >> i think that sounds like the most logical possibility or else someone -- could have even done a transfer of the data. that's very risky for whoever has it on their cell phone or put the similar card in another cell phone and played it that way or made a copy. but i think given the reporters -- and they certainly said it seemed like what it was and given that i have on other crash cases i've worked, have had cell phone video. it has been recovered. things have been recovered from cell phones, computers, you name it. they're pretty tough little devices. i think it's likely it really does exist and the investigators just haven't seen it yet. >> one other question, i noticed this one of the updates from the searchers, that is that there's an enormous amount of jet fuel that has contaminated this area and thus made it very difficult for cadaver dogs to do their work. does that sound legitimate to you? does that sound like that would really make this recovery effort more difficult?
>> absolutely. that's one of the things early on after this crash that investigators were commenting on. given the flight and the distance they had to go, the part of the mountainside that was burned did not seem large enough for the amount of fuel that was on the plane. a couple of ways that can happen, one, it doesn't catch fire or, two, there are sometimes in which the explosions double back and put themselves out. so whatever reason it was, that fuel clearly did not all burn. and while it's hard on the dogs, a burned crash site is much more difficult even than one that's not, if that's possible to imagine. so the absence of a fire is actually fortunate. >> mary, thank you for that. karl penhaul doing excellent work in the french alps for us as well. thank you to you. coming up next, as we still try to make sense of this video report that some investigators say just doesn't exist, there is something that does exist. and that is the admission by the
airline that it actually did know about the mental condition of the pilot who intentionally killed all these people. so, number one, what does that mean for the civil liability for this airline? and maybe even more important, what about criminal liability? that's next. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.
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we are digging deeper into these shocking revelations in the investigation of flight 9525. police are denying claims that a horrifying cell phone video exists from inside the cabin of flight 9525 that apparently captured the final desperate moments of all of those passengers right before the jet crashed into the french alps, killing them.
cnn's senior international correspondent fred pleitgen has this report. >> reporter: a chilling discovery purportedly pulled from the wreckage of germanwings flight 9525. cell phone video shot from inside the cabin, purportedly captures the chaos and horror of the final moments before the crash. french magazine "paris match" and german newspaper "bild" say they've seen the video recovered from a memory card by an investigator, though a french official says the reports are, quote, completely wrong and unwarranted. the publications say from watching the video, it's disturbingly clear the passengers knew what was about to happen. >> it's very shaky. it's very chaotic. but there are some things that are very much in line with what we know about the investigation so far. >> reporter: according to the magazine and newspaper, as the planedescends, screams can be
heard. metallic bangs can be heard more than three times, which they believe is the captain trying to break his way back into the cockpit with a heavy object. towards the end, a heavy shake reports say as the cabin abruptly jerks, presumably as the plane's right wing scrapes a mountain. the screams intensify, then silence. lufthansa ceo visiting the crash site this morning to pay his respects. this just a day after the stunning revelation that lufthansa knew andreas lubitz had a history of psychological problems before he deliberately crashed the jet. in 2009, lubitz told his flight training school he suffered from, quote, a previous episode of severe depression. >> if they withheld information intentionally, that's not good. >> reporter: lufthansa says lubitz provided that information in medical documents he submitted to resume flight
training. after taking a break for several months, he was cleared to fly shortly after. >> all the safety nets we are so proud of here have not worked in this case. >> reporter: fred pleitgen, cnn, cologne, germany. >> i want to bring in justin green to talk about what it means for lufthansa's potential liability if that airline knew that andreas lubitz suffered from severe depression before the airline hired him. our conversations have morphed over the days as developments have become more evident. and this is a jaw-dropper. but what does it mean for the people who have been left behind? can they now go after punitive damages which maybe before might have been trickier? >> the montreal convention does not allow punitive damages, as it's interpreted here in the united states. and i don't believe it will allow for punitive damages for the families in germany or in france either. >> because they're big. punitive damages can be big? >> yes, punitive damages can be very large.
and the most well-known case would be the exxon valdez case. >> but the montreal convention, correct me if i'm wrong, will only cover you so long as you didn't do something really wrong. >> no, the montreal convention will make the airline liable for negligence, for willful misconduct or anything they do wrong. and there's really no limit to the damages the families can get if -- compensatory damages, damages for loss of support, loss of services, those sorts of things, if the airline did anything wrong. so here with the notice that the airline now says, which apparently is something contrary to what they said earlier, with the notice that they did know that he had to stop training and they did know that he suffered severe depression -- >> that doesn't expose them significantly? >> it exposes them -- their responsibility would be to fully compensate the families. >> i read in "the new york
times" this morning that this really opens them up to the possibility of criminal procedure in germany or france. did that sort of pass the smell test to you, criminal procedure -- >> no. >> the fact that they knew something. they didn't intentionally do something. >> well, their concord crashed because a continental airplane mechanic improperly fastened -- it fell on the runway and made the concord to crash. they went after continental, the company, for criminal homicide. so this is -- >> remind me, how did they fare? >> they fared okay. it went on for years recently the last -- >> did it beat the criminal rap? >> in large part they did. >> do you see that something similar right happen here? >> i think what's more important here is you have to understand that you've got lufthansa group owns germanwings. >> right. >> and it also owns the training tram, lufthansa training, which is where this guy got trained.
and lufthansa training may be liable outside the convention and may be liable here in the united states. so that may be a major plus for the families. >> a lot of questions that still need answering. justin, thank you for that. we appreciate it. coming up next, there's also breaking news out of arkansas where the governor there just sent his state's religious freedom bill back to the drawing board hoping to avoid a firestorm like the one he just saw play out in indiana. you're driving along,
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arkansas where the republican governor of that state has just made an announcement. but wait, it might not be the one you were expecting. no. asa hutchinson instead says he is not going to sign it, at least not yet anyway. the nation's newest so-called religious freedom law. his state's version of it. the drama there is a virtual replay of the political/economic/social calamity that really has forced lawmakers in indiana back to the drawing board in some respects. we are now hearing that they may have, quote, a fix for what ails their religious freedom law in indiana and it may be coming as soon as tomorrow. more on that in a moment. but among the forces lining up against the arkansas bill is not only the state's largest employer, but also the largest private employer in the nation. you guessed it, that is one very large gorilla, walmart. the chain says the measure, quote, threatens to undermine the spirit of inclusion present
throughout the state and does not reflect the values we proudly uphold. read, i don't like this and i'm huge. defenders are insisting these laws, 20 now on the books, several more proposed, merely protect individuals and businesses from being forced to violate their religious faith or practices. and there are strong arguments on both sides of the debate. my cnn colleague rosa flores is in indianapolis and victor blackwell are joining us. he's on the phone in arkansas. first to you, this was big breaking news. give me the rundown of how this morning played out and how governor hutchinson came to this decision. >> reporter: what we heard from the governor's office was that he was intending to sign this. but a change of heart, a change of mind today that he wanted this to be recalled by the state legislature to make some changes. he didn't say specifically what those changes are, mentioning the first amendment. but he said it should mirror the federal law. listen to what the governor said this morning.
>> the bill that is on my desk at the present time does not precisely mirror the federal law. it doesn't mirror it in a couple of ways, particularly allowing the first amendment to be asserted in the private litigation between parties or the reliance upon the state law and those claims. therefore, i ask that changes be made in the legislation. and i've asked that the leaders of the general assembly to recall the bill so that it can be amended to reflect the terms of the federal religious freedom and restoration act. >> reporter: now, when the governor was asked if he had the commitment from state legislators that that would happen, he said he does not. when asked quickly as they were walking away, the speaker were
asked, will you keep people here? and they smiled and walked away. the question remains, will the governor get what he wants? >> we have two states in play right now. i want to go to rosa flores who's in indiana. i saw you reporting earlier that the fix is in, it doesn't mean that. it means they might know what this fix is to this controversial legislation where you are. so what is it? >> reporter: you know, it's clear as mud, ashleigh. here in indiana, republican leadership meeting with the governor behind closed doors for about an hour, talking about the language to fix this law. here's a peek as to what happened inside. >> still aren't hoped to have this completely resolved tomorrow. it takes hard work and a lot of discussion and we're actively talking not just with the governor but members of the corporate and sports community. i've had a couple of meetings with lgbt folks. and i think we're moving in the
right direction to clarify and preserve religious freedom and dispel the myth that this denies service to any category. >> reporter: now, the speaker said that this would be all, quote, completely resolved by tomorrow. so, ashleigh, i asked, does that mean that the measure is going to be on the governor's desk ready for his signature? and the answer was no. again, clear as mud, my friend. >> yeah. well, then you can't come home until this is all dealt with, rosa flores in indiana. thank you for that. for whatever it is you were able to get us from the people there who are not as forthcoming with the information. let me try to clear up some of the muddy issues. joining me here in new york is mark geragos and from washington, we welcome lori wyndham, senior counsel at the beckett fund for religious liberty. first and foremost, the beckett
fund, as i understand it, has been trying to lay out the blueprints for those who are very concerned about the onslaught of gay marriage and how to navigate around things when that issue threatens what people believe are their religious beliefs and how they can continue to practice their religious beliefs and not be encroached on this new freedom to gays and lesbians. first of all, is that right? >> we've gathered a bunch of scholars who are differing views on gay marriage and differing views on the law to look at, what are the conflicts going to be? where are they going to come up and what can be done about them? what you've seen in many states, it's been accomplished when state legislatures enact gay marriage laws, where they have also enacted them with some sort of religious protection, especially for churches and religious organizations. >> it gets complicated for the average viewer who hears one narrative versus another narrative and a bumper sticker form. effectively, a lot of people are
saying, and this is what mike pence was so angry about, his law has been grossly mischaracterized as a license to discriminate. but, my question to you is, why shouldn't people believe that when he lines up a bunch of lobbyists behind him who are vehemently opposed to gay marriage and puts him there for the photo as he signs the bill and a product of the bill is, if i walk into a florist and i'm gay and i want the florist to do my wedding, the florist will be protected under this law by saying, i don't work with you types. >> i think it's a really terrible misunderstanding -- >> why? >> because there have only been a handful of cases around the country that have involved anything to do with gay rights. the vast majority of these cases have to do with religious organizations, especially minority faith groups, who are just trying to have their rights protected, like the native american kindergarten student in
texas who wanted to wear his hair in a braid as his religion required to school -- >> lori, you know he has class protection. you know where the critics come in. mark, one of the big debates has been that there's no class protection for the gay or lesbian couple that comes in and just wants to have a wedding. >> and the problem is, lori is correct that there are only a handful of cases. but the problem is the way they set this up is when they have the legislative solution and they say, we're prohibiting gay marriage, then you get a court that will come in and the court will say, no, you can't do that. so this is the fallback position. this is their default position, it's precisely why pence lined up the people behind him in that press conference to sign this law so that, okay, if we can't do it this way, we'll do it another way, that's what they did. they're the ones who opened this up. this is part of the strategy and to say, well, there's only been a handful of cases, that's fine. but they're now going to use this to challenge and to erode
what they can't do legislatively or in the district courts. >> lori, i want to just tell our viewers -- if i can ask, i want to put up a graphic that compares the federal law with the indiana law because that's been a lot of the argument on behalf of the supporters of this bill is that it's a mirror of what's already in place in the federal law. it doesn't seem like that's actually the case. in the federal law, it's signed to protect rituals of religious minorities and in the indiana law, it's designed to protect the christian businesses. and in the federal law, the substantial burden to religious exercises. but in the indiana law, it's the burden or likely burden. i want to stop there only for a moment because i am very concerned about what a likely burden is. that seems so far-ranging that you get political cover for just about anything you want to do if you don't like gay people, period, and you don't want anything to do with them with your business. >> i'm going to disagree because
actually if you look at the connecticut rifra, it doesn't say substantial, it just says burden. i don't think the sky would fall in indiana if they keep this language. what you have to do when you go to court, you have to show there's a burden that it's really a serious one on your religious exercise, showing that it's likely in a legal case is pretty difficult. you think about the standard that it takes to win your case in court -- >> except, lori, what you've got here, the big distinction in indiana is you've got now it's business to business or business individuals, you've taken government out of the picture. and then the arkansas law went one step further, it also had a clause in it that proposed that the employer could impose restrictions or the burdens onto the employee. >> i need to jump in only because i do have a lot of other breaking news today. but i also want to mention that
dannel malloy was on the broadcast previous to mine yesterday, very, very critical of the indiana law. i am not sure if there's class protection for gays and lesbians in connecticut but he's a democratic governor. i will look into that. but he was incensed. and has actually stopped all state-sponsored funding to anybody in his state that needs to go to indiana. >> it shows what a huge misunderstanding there is about what this law is and what it does. back to mark's point -- >> sadly, i cannot. but i want to have you back on. you're very articulate when it comes to this issue and we need a lot more minds on both sides of to hash it out and get people to understand the implications. lori, thank you. will you come back? >> thank you. >> mark geragos, great to have you. amid all of the screaming and the yelling in this religious freedom fight, don't forget there's always that mantra, money talks, folks. follow the money. big and small businesses could have a massive impact on how
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and find the aarp medicare supplement plan to go the distance with you. go long. if you've been caught up in the controversy over religious freedom law, you've heard about the groups, the businesses and the sports leagues that oppose those laws on the grounds that they could be used to protect discriminatory practices. a lot of critics say not so. but the debate is out there and
it's an ugly one. i want to bring in cnn's poppy harlow. governors and legislators are one thing. but big businesses changes the metric for everything. >> every governor of every state wants big business to operate and headquarters in that state. >> and not leave. >> nike say they oppose this, it's bad for business. walmart coming out against the arkansas law. you name a big business, starbucks, eli lily, they are speaking out about this. i sat down in new york last night with warren buffett whose berkshire hathaway owns 70-plus different businesses that operate all of them in indiana, some of them are headquartered in indiana. i asked him what he makes of the law. and he said he hadn't read the fine print but he knows all about it. he said, to the extent it could in any way be prejudicial to gays or lesbians, he opposes it. here's more. the governor of indiana, mike pence, said this week he will
fix the law, that he will move to make sure that it does not discriminate against anyone. however, when he was asked over the weekend whether he would add sexual orientation, be in favor of adding sexual orientation as a protected class in the state of indiana, he said that is something he's not working towards right now. what should be done to fix this? >> i'm suspicious. i think if people can exercise discrimination based on sexual orientation, then it's wrong. i don't know how the law reads exactly so i don't know what words you would change. b when you get all through, you read the law and you can discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, i would say somebody better do something about it. >> should sexual orientation be a protected class in the state of indiana? >> generally, yeah, the answer is, they're entitled to equal rights, equal acceptance, 100%, in the eyes of the law. >> interesting.
i went on to ask him if this indiana law doesn't change, would you pull your businesses out of the state of indiana, he said, not at this point. he said it's up to the ceos of those different companies but he's not a supporter of it. >> poppy, thank you. a lot more is coming on your weekend program as well. the defense in the boston bombing trial has rested, this after just two days or so, not even quite two days. but guess what? they may have just ended but they're really just getting started. we'll explain that one in a minute. man (sternly): where do you think you're going? mr. mucus: to work, with you. it's taco tuesday. man: you're not coming. i took mucinex to help get rid of my mucusy congestion. i'm good all day. [announcer:] mucinex keeps working. not 4, not 6, but 12 hours. let's end this two weeks later. look, credit karma-- are you talking to websites again? this website says "free credit scores." oh, credit karma! yeah it's actually free. look, you don't have to put in your credit card information. whew! credit karma.
decision, does he live or does he die for the crimes? yesterday, the defense rested after really less than two days after putting on four witnesses. that was it. but the real work is ahead. they are not disputing that tsarnaev was the bomber. they said it in openings, it's him. but they say his brother tamerlan was really the guilty one, the ringleader, that dzhokhar was just a follower. i want to bring in midwin charles and jennifer wrent. we've seen this before. you have a stinker of a case to start with. your job as the defense attorney is to save the man's life and nothing else. is that what you're seeing here and do they have a shot? >> it's what they're doing and i think they're doing the best they can. defense attorneys are handed a case and they work with what they have. what they've done with him is try to humanize him. that's always what you do -- >> that's such a great point. but you have a young man sitting in this courtroom who has not shed a tear, has not winced once
when the clothes and underwear of an 8-year-old boy, shredded, melted and covered in blood were shown to everyone and jurors could barely keep it together, many of them crying openly in court. and that young man has done nothing and he's expecting his lawyers to make him vulnerable and human. >> it's not so much about being vulnerable and human. i think it's the fact that the death penalty in federal cases is rarely effective. and we've seen over history that it's rarely granted -- >> but it did with timothy mcveigh. >> there are a lot of comparisons between the two cases. but with mcveigh, there were a lot more people killed, there were a lot more people injured. and in massachusetts, jurors kind of feel -- they're not that much in favor of the death penalty. i think it's going to be hard to get death. guilt, yes, but death is another thing. >> people sitting in the courtroom do not like the guy, they don't like the evidence.
they have been disgusts. they've done all the things you expect as a prosecutor, home run, right? but now let me ask you this -- if these jurors hate dzhokhar tsarnaev so much, would they not prefer to see him rot for 60 years in a cell than maybe get an early four-year out like when timothy mcveigh said, no thanks, i don't want to sit around in the stinking cell? >> it's possible. you never really know what the jury is thinking when they're looking at this kind of case. one can say, yeah, let's have him sit in jail forever, that's better punishment than what mcveigh chose. but it's difficult to tell. >> even if he gets the death penalty, there will be appeals. so he will be sitting around for a long time. 12k3w >> not necessarily, timothy mcveigh signed his ticket to the chair in four years and to a lot of people, that wasn't much punishment for what he did. thank you both so much. you know how dangerous the
his big brother tamerlan, that guy, he got his when he was killed in a shootout with the police. but there's a whole lot more to this now notorious family than just those two brothers. there are these ladies. cnn's drew griffin found the tsarnaev sisters and the mother, all of whom who have had run-ins with police. >> reporter: silent, almost shy as she heads into manhattan criminal court, ailina tsarnaev was, according to prosecutors, anything but when it came to a romantic rival. according to a criminal complaint, tsarnaev threatened a woman in a phone call this summer saying, leave my man alone, stop looking for him. and went on to say, i know people that can put a bomb where you live. considering who the threats came from, prosecutors didn't consider it a joke and have charged tsarnaev with aggravated harassment which she denies. leaving court, she and her
lawyer refused to discuss the case. can you tell us why she is accused of making these kind of threats, especially this family? >> i can't comment on an open case, thank you. >> reporter: the tsarnaev family first emigrated to the boston area back in 2002. the parents fleeing a troubled region of russia, were treated as legal residents and granted asylum, a status that opened the door for taxpayer-funded welfare. the state of massachusetts has confirmed the tsarnaevs received food stamps, public housing and other aid, on and off between 2002 and 2012. it was during this time that her brother, tamerlan, began his conversion to radical islam. then according to investigators, began filling his younger brother's head with a hatred towards the west. not much is known about the two tsarnaev daughter, ailina and bella, though they both lived together or near each other in new jersey. though muslim in appearance,
their appearances in court represent a lifestyle at odds with the islamic faith. along with charges of making bomb threats, ailina tsarnaev has a past record that includes misleading police in a counterfeiting case. she pleaded guilty but got no jail time. she was also charged with leaving the scene of an accident but it was dismissed. her older sister, bella, was charged with marijuana possession and intent to distribute after a 2012 arrest and entered into a pretrial intervention program. even their mother has had her issues with the law. fleeing back to russia in 2012 where she remains a fugitive. records show zubeidat tsarnaev was arrested and charged in june 2012 for allegedly shoplifting $1,600 in women's clothing from a boston area lord & taylor. she's wanted on felony charges of shoplifting and destruction of property. in russia, she has maintained
her innocence in the shoplifting case while also calling the charges against her sons made up. and though not elaborating on her beliefs, ailina tsarnaev believes as her mother does, that her surviving brother, dzhokhar, and her dead brother, tamerlan, are innocent. drew griffin, cnn, new york. >> charges made up? his own lawyer said in court he did it. ailina tsarnaev is out on bond until her next court appearance. and if you're following, that's coming in may. got another gun now in the cross-hairs in the aaron hernandez murder trial. the person he allegedly shot in the eye a couple of years ago takes the witness stand right across from him. how do you think that mood was? you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay
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of all the people to testify against aaron hernandez, this is one guy who the defense lawyers really didn't want anywhere near their courtroom. his name is alexander bradley. and he was hernandez's right-hand man until hernandez allegedly shot him in the face. he lost his sight in one eye. here's some choice pictures of him.
allegedly bradley was with hernandez the night that hernandez allegedly shot and killed two men in boston in 2012. yes, there are those cases still to come down the road. the jury won't hear any of all of this, though, nothing. but bradley testified about seeing something important -- hernandez with guns, particularly one gun inside a lockbox in the basement. >> this box, this black box, did you ever see it in an open condition? >> yes. >> who had opened it? >> mr. hernandez. >> and when it was in an opened condition, did you ever see any of the contents inside? >> yes. >> what did you see inside? >> a firearm, money, marijuana joints. >> okay. when you say a firearm, just describe, what color was the firearm? >> it was silver-grayish color with a brown handle. >> that's never what you want to hear, especially if you're facing down murder charges. susan candiotti is with me live
now. we're still missing a murder weapon here. we have a lockbox that was taken out and thrown away by a girlfriend who's already been on the stand. and now a witness says he saw a gun in a lockbox. this can't be going over well. >> reporter: it cannot. and maybe that wasn't the murder weapon. but bradley does testify that he saw aaron hernandez handling a glock during a trip to florida with him. he said he handled it and then appeared to live it in the hotel room. this is important because the judge ruled that at least he had access to a glock that was in the presence of another man in florida who aaron hernandez had given money to to ship guns to him. that's already come out during the course of this trial. so that could be equally important. but also this is a man who was so close to aaron hernandez that hernandez named this man, bradley, as godfather to his child. but he also said that hernandez had trouble trusting people.
that's significant, ashleigh, because of a text that aaron hernandez sent two days before lloyd is murdered. and that text said, i was mad at myself because i told odin lloyd about a spot. and that could be motive, prosecutors say. >> susan candiotti, i've only got a couple of seconds left. but i can't imagine the mood between these two. that guy got shot in the face allegedly by the guy he's facing down in court. did you sense a very uncomfortable existence in there? >> reporter: oh, yeah, they're staring each other down. no love lost there. but he said bizarre things about him the jury will never hear. he stated that aaron hernandez was paranoid, always thought the police were following him on the ground and even in helicopters and he didn't trust people using iphones because he thought they could eavesdrop on him. bizarre. >> susan candiotti covering this life. yeah, something every day. thank you so much, susan.
we'll continue with the updates on that throughout the day. in the meantime, thanks so much for watching. brianna keilar will step in for wolf. and she starts right now. hi, there. i'm brianna keilar in for wolf blitzer. it is 1:00 p.m. here in washington. 6:00 p.m. in london. 7:00 p.m. in dusseldorf and 8:00 p.m. in baghdad. wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks so much for joining us. the fight to retake tikrit from isis appears to finally be over as iraqi forces take control of the city today clearing out the last pockets of resistance. tikrit is best known as saddam hussein's hometown, located north of baghdad. and isis overran the city in a key victory for the group early last june. then nearly a month ago, iraqi forces launched their latest offensive.