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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 16, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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thinks this is possible even if this is just for information. what about the paradox. what will we do if we can time travel. set your dvd. we'll see you tomorrow same time and same place. anderson cooper starts right now. >> good evening. thank you for joining us. aaron hernandez is found guilty. i sat down with the jurors and found the decision they reached. >> charging the defendant aaron hernandez with murder what say you madam foreperson is the defendant not guilty guilty of murder in the first-degree or guilty of murder in the second-degree. >> guilty of murder in the first-degree. >> first degree murder.
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the juror foreperson calls arriving at that decision by far the worst thing she's ever done and having said those words in front of the defendant and she describes that as well. and you'll hear that interview with her and her fellow jurors in just a moment. but take a look back at what they saw in that courtroom day after day and week after week and what they deliberated over in that jury room. >> from the beginning, almost to the end. >> guilty of murder in the first-degree. >> five men and seven women had two stories to choose from two versions of the defendant, they shared a come with week after week. >> one would leave him free to play for the patriots and marry his fiancee. >> the defendant committed the crime of murder. >> the other could send him to prison for life. >> day after day and week after
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week 134 witnesses in all, spoke to who the defendant was and how odin lloyd's body came to be in an isolated pit in an industrial park not far from aaron hernandez's home riddled with bullets and surrounded by evidence. a marijuana joint containing dna from lloyd and hernandez putting them together at some point. and a tire track matching hernandez's rental car and a shoe print matching his sneaker that night. and they saw home security video showing hernandez holding something. >> in my opinion, the firearm shown in the video stills is a glock pistol. >> a pistol or an ipad? >> glock pistols don't have a glow to them do they? >> no, sir, they do not. >> did his fiance get immunity? and they did hear from her. >> you were called to get a box
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and get rid of it? >> i believe so. >> jurors heard that and then heard it challenged on cross-examination. and they had to digest the stunning 180 during defense closing arguments putting hernandez at the scene of the crime. >> he was a 23-year-old kid who witnessed something, a shocking killing, committed by somebody he knew. he really didn't know what to do. >> seven women and five men spent 36 hours, over more than seven days trying to decide beyond a reasonable doubt what all of that added up to. none have been on a jury for this length of time and all say that once is enough. listening to the stories of what it is like it is not hard to see why. >> there were a lot of witnesses and there was a lot of evidence presented. is that what made it so difficult or was there also just the emotional toll of dealing with somebody's life? >> emotional. >> you have to consider
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everything too. you want to make sure that you're looking at everything. you don't want to put more weight on something and put less on another when the reality is toward the end, that is when you start to figure out what things weigh and you want to make sure you're fair to all aspects of that. >> everything was equally important and we didn't want to miss anything and especially for most of us this was the first time we served on a jury. so we had to take it seriously. >> was it a lot different than you thought? >> yes. >> in what way? >> well you see, you know law and order and all of the different tv shows, it is nothing like that at all. it is just very serious. it can be very tedious at times. >> more intense than you thought? >> yes. >> absolutely. >> draining at times. >> yes, it was very emotional for me. you know as soon as we read the verdict, people were calling me
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congratulating me. congratulate me? i felt like who won? odin lloyd's mother didn't win. she didn't bring back her son? did mr. hernandez win? no. because he's going to serve the rest of his life in jail and he's 25 years old. and how about the little girl who will never see her father again. it was very emotional. >> and you thought about that? >> we thought about all of it definitely. >> it was the hardest decision i ever had to make. >> absolutely. >> he was innocent until we proved him guilty and we took that very serious. >> what say ye madam foreperson? >> guilty in the first-degree. >> was that hard? did you know aaron hernandez before? when this trial started, do you know who he was? >> i never watched football. >> how many of you knew who he was? >> i knew who he was? >> but you never watched football? >> no. >> i watched the patriots every
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sunday. >> i'm a patriots' fan and i filled that out sont questionnaire. life long new england girl and the patriots were my team. so i knew him. and i knew of him as a football player and not a person. >> and i think most of us whether we knew him or not, took that out of the equation. it doesn't matter what you do for a living or how much money you make we are all people and we are all equal and we all deserve the same fair trial and that is what we wanted to make sure that we gave him. >> the fact that prosecutors couldn't say clearly what the motive was, how -- did that make it more difficult? did that weigh on you at all? >> oh, yes. >> for any of us during deliberations, for myself if you do something and perform an act, you question rationally what was the reason why you do it and without that information, it made it very difficult. >> so not hearing a motive from
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the prosecutors, that made it hard for you? >> it did. it made it harder for us. because we had to piece more together. >> i saw you nodding your head as well? >> it was exactly what he said. it was more of the puzzle we had to put together. it wasn't just a clean-cut answer. we really had to piece it together in order to get there. >> my belief was, he is innocent. that man sitting in that seat deserves a chance. so that is where it was with me. i just kept rereading what the judge instructed us. we all of that in a pretty thick pile of papers and i just kept rereading that. and then i would have someone read it to me so i could understand that. and that is where i -- i was able to rule out different things. >> did you think it was strange that there wasn't a motive presented? >> i think it would have probably helped for
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understanding. i can -- like us humans we want to know a motive but there doesn't necessarily have to be one. for us it just made it -- we had to piece more of the puzzle together. >> you talk about pieces of the puzzle. are there a couple of pieces of the puzzle for each of you that you point to as being key in making your decisions? because i know each of you came to the same decision but you came to it in different ways. i'm wondering what pieces of the puzzle were most important to you. >> that is what makes a group of 12 people so great. is that 12 different people will look at a puzzle and each person will say that certain pieces stick out to them more than the other. >> kelly, for you, was there specifically something that jumped out to you. >> it was the judge's instructions. >> what part of the instructions. what part of what she said. >> the different definitions for the law. >> of the law.
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>> exactly. it was definition of murder one, the definition of murder extreme atrocity or cruelty. those were the words that i was stuck on. and my people helped me with that. i needed -- i needed clarity and i searched for the people that could give me that clarity in that realm. >> and let me ask you that. for murder one, they have to show premeditation or extreme cruelty. so did you feel -- >> the extreme atrocity or cruelty. >> and it wasn't premeditation? >> no. >> you can't say it was premeditation? >> i can't say with 100% certainty that he premeditation while sitting in that jury room. i can't say that. >> but you do see extreme atrocity or cruelty? >> i see extreme atrocity and cruelty. >> and was it with the number of shots? >> it was his indifference.
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and that was part of what i had to look at. and it was -- even if there was no premeditation, he could have made choices there. when he was there -- he was there, they admitted that and he could have made different choices and he chose not to. >> i think one thing in that regard that surprised a lot of us. was it indifference. and we watched the video footage at his home later in the morning or early afternoon after the incident occurred and he was just lounging around by the pool and playing with the baby and just going about his regular life. i mean for us to have knowledge that he was there at the time that his close friend was murdered personally there is no way i could just carry on hours later like nothing ever happened. that is indifference. >> so there is video tapes, particularly his own security cameras were crucial? >> hours later. >> but in the instructions we weren't asked to use that after
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the murder to weigh our decision. to leave your friend on the ground -- knowing that he's not there any more. he's either dead or he's going to die, that is indifference. he didn't need to pull the trigger. he could have made different choices when that man was lying there. >> do you feel like he did pull the trigger or do you -- >> i don't know. there is no evidence to support that he pulled the trigger, but he chose not to do anything about it. >> in that moment or in the aftermath? >> exactly. in that moment is what i was looking at because that is what i was instructed to do. in that moment. >> and he played a role. whether he was the shooter or the transport. he played a role in that murder and that is what he was charged with. >> i think this conversation is fascinating because you see how con seen shus and thoughtful the jurors were and how serious their role were and they had two or three or more notebooks they
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had and notes that were crucial once the deliberation began. and when we come back how the jurors were affected by the physical reaction to testimony and what if anything they drew from the physical reactions in court and to the videos and there were a lot of videos that came into play in the trial. and later, what life behind bars will be behind bars in a maximum-security prison that one expert tells me was built simply for punishment.
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we're talking with the jurors that found aaron hernandez guilty. and we're talking about body language. and he came as a celebrity, once a star player for the patriots. and he was in the public eye and being judged by the way he carried himself. but not quite like this. susan candiotti reports. >> his face barely showing any reaction after hearing the verdict. a totally different side of him could be seen at trial when cameras weren't allowed to roll and jurors were not present. but that same behavior was caught on tape during pretrial hearings. hernandez showing a swaggering entrance flashing a trademark
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hollywood smile. soften mouthing "i love you" to his fiancee or joking with his lawyers. even when police arrested him, he appeared confident if not defiant defiant. >> we used the aid of a microscope to see closer. >> during testimony he showed no reaction as he looked as bloody bullet holes at the shirt worn by odin lloyd and showed no emotion of pictures worn by odin lloyd. >> when odin lloyd's mother spoke he shows no reaction. and when he was shown dirty dancing up close with someone other than his fiancee and
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rocking in his chair and licking his lips and rubbing his chin when he finds he will learn the rest of his life behind bars and mouthing the words, "they're wrong." susan candiotti. >> and the question is how does someone like that affect you, the jury. here is part two of my conversation with the hernandez jury. >> i notice you have called him aaron. and i think people who haven't been on a jury don't understand the intimacy that exists in a courtroom where somebody is sitting, you know a couple of feet away from you, and -- >> for three months every day. >> that is right. >> yeah. >> did you look at him a lot. did he look at you? >> oh, yeah. one time we made contact and he nodded to me at one time. and it is hard. you come in that room every day
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and you see this person. and it's hard to come to that decision at the end because three months with them it is almost like you -- they're part of you and now all of a sudden you have to make that decision to either put them away or let them go. it is very hard. >> we learned yesterday that he said to his guards that he didn't do it. that you all were wrong. when you hear that what do you think? >> my first thought is if we were wrong and he had something else to say, he maybe should have testified at some point in that trial. maybe there should have been more so we could have heard his side of the story. >> i'm wondering if after the verdict was read each of you were polled did any of you make eye contact with you and did he say anything to you? >> no. several of us looked at him but he didn't say anything to us. >> it was emotional. and i didn't want to make eye contact with anybody. and at one point, there was so much noise over to the side of me i went to gaze around and
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i -- i locked eyes with him. and he was shaking his head like this. and he mouthed something and i didn't know what he he mouthed but he was shaking his head just staring. and i thought, you need to look back at the judge. just look back at the judge. >> do you think he was mouthing something at you or somebody else. >> at us in general. i don't know what that was. i haven't watched anything. >> a lot of people watching at home who were commenting on this trial talked about his swagger and his bar -- bearing. some people said it was different than when you were in the room than when you weren't in the room and he had swagger than when you weren't in the room obviously you only saw him at one time. his bearing, did that register with you? did you form opinions of that? >> you want to judge people off
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of their body language. they are different than yours, it doesn't mean -- it just doesn't mean concrete things. you want to be careful judging stuff like that. >> it just leads us to reach a rational conclude. >> irrational concludes. >> we have to look at rational opinion and to look at fact. >> aaron hernandez' girlfriend or fiancee was granted immunity. were you aware that she had been granted immunity? >> yes. >> you were? >> the judge told us after she had finished testifying that she -- that she had, with other witnesses that she was granted immunity and what that meant. before she came up we can -- we did not know. but at the end we were made aware. >> and when you learned she was granted immunity did that effect you in any way, did it impact the way you thought about her testimony? >> there were a lot of people that testified that were granted
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immunity. >> we were told by the judge to scrutinize that testimony. >> right. >> let's talk about her testimony. did you believe that she had thrown out a box that weighed several pounds she said it smelled like weed and didn't actually look inside of the box? >> i don't recall. [ laughter ] >> we saw her on video removing that box and placing it in the trunk of her sister's car. what happened after that we don't know. and she's the only one. >> she said she doesn't remember what dumpster it was put in and she doesn't remember what was in the box? >> no. >> did you find her credible? >> no. >> she was very forgetful? >> selectful memory? >> no. >> so you don't find her credible? >> no. >> do you believe the murder weapon was in that box? >> no i don't personally.
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>> does anybody believe the murder weapon was in that box? >> no. >> no idea what was in the box. >> i don't think anybody will know what was in the box. >> some people said they didn't believe the murder weapon was in the box and others said they have no evidence what was in the box one way or another. just ahead, we also talked about the home surveillance video showing aaron hernandez with something in his hand shortly after the murder. prosecutors said it was a gun and here is what one juror said how that shaped her thinking. >> for him to be carrying a gun in his house like that around his child, it just -- it made me think, what else is he capable of?
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new england patriots owner robert kraft was a key witness in the murder trial. this is the same man who signed hernandez to a $40.05-year contract who others took a pass on him. now the jurors i sat down with this morning told me one piece of testimony that kraft gave was especially damaging. listen. >> the testimony of mr. kraft, the owner of the new england
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patriots how important was that? what did you come away with learning from that? >> it was important. i mean i had said it yesterday too, that when -- when bob kraft had testified that aaron had come in and seen him the day after the incident or that he went to see aaron the day after the incident and asked him if he did it and aaron said no i'm completely innocent in fact i hope that the time that odin was murdered is made public because at that time i was at a club. >> he said he was not involved that he was innocent and that he hoped that the time of the murder incident came out because i believe he said he was in a club. >> even after a professional medical examiner conducted an autopsy, he couldn't conclude the exact time that odin was
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murdered. so two years ago, how would aaron have that information, especially if he wasn't involved. so for me that was important. >> the fact that erin hernandez said to bob kraft, that he indicated he knew what time odin lloyd was murdered to you that was a tell that was a giveaway? >> it was one of them yeah. >> one of the many. >> in the closing arguments that the defense said he was there, that aaron hernandez was there, which is different than what they'd been saying or they hadn't said that previously how important was that? what did you think? >> it surprised us that the defense attorney would say something like that. however, in our deliberation that wasn't a statement we could consider in our verdict. >> why not? >> we were told before the beginning, anything that the attorney says or objects to that is not a piece of
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admissibility evidence. >> did it make you doubt the defense in general that wait a minute why didn't they say that from the get-go? maybe it would have made a difference if they would have acknowledged that early on? did it make you feel -- it would be human nature, at least for me to think what else haven't they said and now all of a sudden they are saying he was there after this entire trial? >> it made me question their integrity and it made me question a lot of the arguments that they made or the questions they asked throughout the process. just kind of reflecting back earlier when they made a claim that aaron went present at the -- wasn't present at the time of the murder and then in closing they contradicted themselves and going back through the evidence we were looking through stills from the video we watched in addition to watching the videos again and some of the images that could appear to be a handgun, their original questions were trying to insinuate it was a remote control or a clicker or that was
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a his iphone or it could be a telephone but maybe it was a gun but is it a .45. >> and the video much discussed publicly on television and the like was there a gun in aaron hernandez' hand or was it an iphone or something else was that pofrpt important -- important to you? >> yes. >> it was? in what way? >> it didn't look like a clicker for me it looked like a gun. and for him to be carrying a gun in his house like that around his child, it just -- i don't know it just made me think what else is he capable of that? i want to point out this jury in particular made a point with me before our interview saying they didn't want to talk about what happened inside of the jury room and the dynamics whether there was crying or arguments because they wanted to protect the sanctity of the jury room because they wanted future juries to know what happened
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inside of the jury room wouldn't be shared with the public at large and unlike many juries i've interviewed, they are sticking together and they are not out there looking for fame as some are suggesting they are not doing a lot of interviews this is one of two, a local interview they are doing, and they could have done more if they wanted fame and they want everybody to know how serious they took this and the decision process that went into the decision. as you just heard, aaron hernandez's action and demeanor seen on the video were a big factor for the jurors. and joining us dr. drew on call and sunny hostin. and you heard them talk about how they immediately zeroed in on the fact that aaron hernandez seemed to indicate he had a sense of what time odin lloyd was killed ant the juror -- and the juror raised the question
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how could he know what time he was killed because even the medical examiner didn't know. >> it was fascinating. it affirms what i thought juries do. they worked hard and they want to do the right thing. and most importantly when we are talking to juries as lawyers, when you go back to the jury room, ladies and gentlemen of the jury don't leave your common sense behind and what we heard from them is common sense. and how could aaron hernandez know what time it happened when a medical examiner doesn't know what time it happened and it makes a lot of sense. >> and mark that the jurors noted, that pulling a 180 by the defense, saying he was there, and questioning what the jurors said at the trial, kind of their whole take on it have you seen a defense team -- is it common
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that a defense team completely changed their narrative like that at the end of a trial? >> well yes, it is common. because there is this perception and i admit to having done it earlier in my career that you can argue two different theories that may be mutually exclusive or at odds with one another and i've abandoned that in the last decade or so because i don't think it works, number one, and number two, i think you get exactly the reaction from jurors that this juror eloquently stated which he questions the integrity of the defense lawyer and that is all you got when you talk to them. and i will tell you this is an incredible jury in terms of they knew and they followed the law and i'm saying this as a defense lawyer they followed the law and they knew exactly what to answer with you. they knew when you asked did you consider that when you went back there, the defense lawyer's changing of his strategy so to speak, he said we were instructed not to consider that
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as evidence but we did take what they had done or their tactics into account because of that. that is exactly what you are supposed to do. >> that is right. >> virtually everything they said is spot on. they followed it. highly -- highly intelligent jury and i'm incredibly impressed, even as a defense lawyer. >> and i said this after the interview and because i didn't want them to think i was buttering up and a, it is rare they stick together like this and also their conscientiousness really impressed me. and i threw them some questions they could have said their body language in court, his swagger, they could have said no you don't want to pay attention to body language in court, it had nothing to do -- >> which is exactly -- >> right. >> it is a defense lawyer's worst nightmare. you watch this to hope you have an appellate issue to pop up
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and they didn't get anything for the defense to work with. >> and doctor in terms of aaron hernandez's behavior you think it is in line with a sociopath. can you explain that? >> someone that feels grandiose, above the law and feels it doesn't apply to him and he can lie with impunity and it is kind of a -- a sense of hub orrous and specialness and you won't get him and you got it wrong if you think it is him and you will see the world the way he sees it and according to the family history that has been told he's been anti-social and what his mom called rebellious since his dad died as a young boy. and i want to comment about his swagger, you can't help but factor that on some level. the nonverbal, nonrational ways of how we think about them that
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has to affect us and i think his attitude in court you heard it bleeding through in terms of the evidence they did look at how was he able not to care and carry a gun around his children if they saw that different in the courtroom, that might not have affected him quite as much. >> that was one of the things his demeanor in the surveillance and the security camera video, that affected them very much and was key, the video of him getting out of the vehicle, four guys go to the site three of them return odin lloyd not being one of them but they didn't see hernandez coming and going as the rest of the country saw him coming and going, they were there as they were already there and they saw that more in the video tape. and sunni, for first-degree murder in massachusetts, it is either premeditation or extreme
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cruelty and they couldn't say it was premeditation, even though some thought it was, but they couldn't say there was evidence to prove that but they thought it was cruelty. >> and that was unique to this situation in massachusetts, because in other jurisdictions quite frankly, premeditation means you had to plan the murder. and so unlucky for aaron hearne but -- aaron hernandez, but it is almost a character assault. they again using their common sense if you just saw your friend murdered and even if you didn't pull the trigger, how could you drink smoothies in the morning and hand your child to them -- >> and the fact they thought and felt through the the evidence that aaron hearne was the ringleader. >> thank you dr. drew pins can i. and more in the life of the prison aaron hernandez is now facing and how much time he will spend in his cell in his prison every single day. and breaking news about the
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immediately after sentencing aaron hernandez hearne was taken to a maximum security prison just miles from the stadium he used to play for the patriots. it is just a stop for sentencing. he will be taken to a correctional sentence about 40 miles outside of boston. le spent the first two years there and then depending on how he behaves he may go to a less
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maximum-security prison. leslie walker is director of prison security in massachusetts and i spoke with her shortly before air about what conditions will be like. >> leslie this maximum-security prison where hernandez is going, what is life like there for him there? >> life for him will be crowded. there are a thousand people in that prison. a thousand prisoners and several hundred staff. it is a maximum-security prison built as a super-max. it is built for punishment. there is little opportunities for education or programming. prisoners are locked in their cells 19 hours aday and only allowed approximately three times a week and that is if the stars are aligned and the weather is perfect. movement is restricted. people are not allowed to wander anywhere. you must remain in your cell block from the very most time
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you are out. but for the very most part it is boring. it is a boring place and it is dangerous and very difficult if you are a drug addict because the prison is unfortunately a wash with opiates. >> and at this point we don't know if he will be placed in solitary confinement or in the general population of the prison. but if he ends up in solitary what are the conditions like there? >> the solitary confinement is 23 hours a day lock-up in a cell that has a window. approximately 6 inches wide by maybe 24 inches wide. it is a long vertical window that looks to the outside and a small window in the door where a correctional officer can see what the prisoner is doing. the lockup is five days a week and one hour of exercise five days a week saturday and sunday no time out of the cell. people are allowed showers three times a week. food is delivered to the cell front and prisoners eat three
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meals aday -- day alone sitting on the bed next to their toilet. >> so someone like him who is well-known would he be part of general population? >> i suspect he'll be in a general population block after the department of correction has had the time to figure out who he thinks may be enemies in the system and who they think may be enemies of him. >> what kind of contact at least initially will he have with visitors with his fiancee? >> well it is two-tier. if he is in an orientation unit he can have visits with his fiancee. they are limited. if he's in segregation, he can still have visits with his fiancee, that is an appointment 24 hours in advance and that is behind glass or plastic actually if he is in general population cell block, he can, i believe, get three visits a
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week. his block would have the ability to have three visits a week and those are contact visits where people can have an initial kiss and hug and can sit across from each other and i've seen children sit on father's laps so i assume his daughter would have that kind of atact which i believe she has not had in the time of pretrial because there are no contact visits to my knowledge in the jails in massachusetts. >> i appreciate the level of detail leslie thank you so much. >> you're welcome. up next breaking news in the tulsa volunteer deputy story. there is new information about the training he had or did not have, i should say. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way.
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breaking news in the case of the volunteer deputy in tulsa who shot and killed a man in a string operation. he is under the microscope and now there are questions about his training or lack therefore. he said he was trained by the maricopa sheriff's department in arizona. tonight the sheriff's department said that is not true. and in addition the tulsa world newspaper said there is evidence that bates' training records
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were falsified. we have more. >> reporter: you can only see a quick glimpse of bates in the video during the undercover sting operation. but how the tulsa county sheriff's department allowed bates to work the streets is under intense scrutiny. the tuls world newspaper reports that supervisors in the department were told to falsify his training records and three supervisors were transforred to other jobs for refusing to alter the records. one spokesperson refused to comment saying they don't respond to rumors. other officials have repeatedly insisted he was properly trained. >> he had all of the training he needed. >> the sheriff's department have only released a summary of his training over the past years. they rejected the cnn training
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records because his case is under investigation. but in an interview with a tulsa radio station the sheriff acknowledged his gun qualification records are missing and the deputy who handled that paperwork is no longer working with the sheriff's office. >> we can't find the records that she supposedly turned in. so we want to talk to her to find out to sure if he did call with those. >> earlier this week cnn did find the signed statement about the shooting he gave to investigators. he writes he last qualified at the gun range in 2014 and taser certified for three or four years. and then he writes he received training by the maricopa county sheriff's department on response to active shooters. it is run by the controversial joe arpy -- joe arpaio but it is said he didn't come to arizona and he certainly didn't train with us.
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he is said to receive favorable treatment because he is a personal friend to the sheriff. >> there are a number of records that the sheriff's office just simply haven't come forward with them. and if they don't come forward with them it is a reflection that the training never happened. >> there are growing calls for an independent investigation into the sheriff's department. this week a department spokesperson boldly rejected any idea of outside investigation into the shooting. >> i'll tell you there is nobody in this culture that could be more tougher on cops than think own. and you know that own analogy you'll eat your own hand. that is the same thing with the sheriff's department. if you have a dirty cop, we'll disclose them much quicker than the media. >> and ed joins me from tulsa. and has the sheriff responded to the allegations. >> we'd asked him about the maricopa county sheriff's department and the training and
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they say it wasn't training but a lecture he attended in washington, d.c. to see a speech given by sheriff joe arpaio and he received a certificate for that. he disputed our questions around that. but it was not, quote, a lecture, but a certificate. >> and he got a certificate for attending a speech by sheriff joe arpaio. i've had sheriff joe arpaio on show. do our viewers get a certificate for that. that is amazing. wow. >> and that was quote, training with the maricopa county sheriff's department which we thought was far different from attending what we were told was a lecture. >> to say the least. ed thank you. and coming up next the gyrocopter man and his day in
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court and how he managed to do what he did. hey, how's the college visit? you remembered. it's good. does it make the short list? you remembered that too. yea, i'm afraid so. knowing our clients personally is what we do. it's okay. this is what we've been planning for. thanks, bye. and with over 13,000 financial advisors we do it a lot. it's why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way.
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the gyrocopter pilot who landed on the capital lawn -- or yesterday was in court today. douglas hughes was charged with unlawfulfully operating a aircraft and released on his own recognizance. as to how he did it tom foreman joins us.
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how can you show us what areas he flew through. >> he flew through a lot of space where somebody should have caught him. he leave gettysburg through faa where somebody should know where us and where he hits the red ring he is in the no-fly zone and into the red ring he is in one of the most protected pieces of air in this entire country. let me bring up the 3-d map and talk about why this is so. this is the white house. and there is the washington monument and look at this point of view flying along this would have taken at least a minute and a half for this to cover this at 50-70 feet in the air he would have flown past hundreds of officers of all different types, national park police capitol police and d.c. police and all sort of buildings along heave
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and it is almost unconceivable that somebody didn't see him and yet we have no reports that anybody did, anderson. >> how is that possible? >> really i can't say that i know. i know there are technical reasons why it is hard for the faa to see them. for example, we talk to experts that say this kind of gyrocopter like this is so small, moving so slow and so close to the ground, that on -- on radar, if seen at all, it would seem like a flock of birds and height coming from pennsylvania it might be around 300 feet in the air but it was clearly around 75 feet or so around the town and that might make it hide around the buildings but even if that is possible it exposes a really significant crack in the wall of defense around washington, d.c. and a crack that many here needs to be filled very quickly. >> especially because now so many people know about it and so many people saw it because it was such a public event. tom foreman. thanks.
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and one final note in what can only be described as the best statement of the week. the postal service said he was not authorized to paeft -- paeft logos on a vehicle. he had no authority to do so. somebody's got to do it with mike rowe starts now. >> i'm mike rowe. and i'm on a mission to find people on a mission. boom. >> on a scale of 1-10, how much do you like? >> 25. >> boom. what are we doing? >> freaking me out. >> how are they doing it? and why? >> i love to make things that make people smile. >> it is very freaking exciting.