tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 22, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
rday and suspected on cnn international. great stuff this weekend and thank you so much for joining us. have a wonderful weekend and memorial day. set your dvr. "ac 360" with anderson starts now. >> we have breaking news. one of the key witnesses changed their story in the multiple mores that shocked washington in the country. changed their accounts of what happened. one of the many things we are learning since the take down of the suspect and fugitive. went is in jail held without bail in the fillings of the family including their 10-year-old child philipp and housekeeper. in a moment we will look closer at the evidence that investigators say ties him of the horror that unfolded in the home last week. four people held captive and terrorized and allegedly tortured, murdered and left to
burn in a fire deliberately set. what might and already does point to additional conspirators and explore what kind of person can do some of this. pamela brown brings us up to speed. >> the court documents suggested darren was arrested in a massive take down and could not have acted alone. allegedly kidnapping and holding the family and their housekeeper of the hostage for 18 hours before brutally beating them and stabbing them and setting the house on fire. they believe they were involved in an elaborate shake down of the family that involves asking the family's assistant to go to a bank to withdraw $40,000 in cash and deliver to the house. >> we tracked them to new york city and we barely missed him. >> sources told us he was hiding out in his girlfriend's new york city apartment since sunday and made his way towards washington
where he was arrested overnight. he was spotted getting into a white chevy cruz outside a howard johnson hotel with three other women. spotted a moving truck and inside was his brother and another man. >> we're followed for about four or five miles and they did a wacky u-turn and we felt they were being tailed. we followed them and continued and called pg county police and sent up a helicopter. >> police found at least $10,000. they are looking at what role the group may have played in the killings of the family. especially in light of the complexity of holding them hostage and extorting them and burning down the house. >> you don't have to spend multiple hours, eight, nine ten hours in someone's home to extort money in this case i'm certain that the father would have given the offender times $40,000 just to get him out of the house.
>> new court documents released show just how brutal the 18-hour ordeal was. the 10-year-old was found burned with stab wounds the fire fuelled by gasoline. the other adults were found with blunt force wounds. they tried to save the housekeeper, but she died at the hospital. investigators appear to question the story told by a key witness who police say was a frequent driver for the faamly and asked to pick up the $40,000 ran som in a bank of america and deliver it to the family. that witness changed his or her story about the cash drop off to the home. >> i have been reading the police report and it's confusing. can you explain how they changed their story and what we know about them? >> it is confusing, but if you read through it. it doesn't add up. it said that basically the assistant from the family
changed his or her story multiple times on several key points about the money drop. the money that was allegedly taken to the home, that $40,000. here are the key points. he was told to bring a package to the home on thursday the day of the incident when it turns out he later told detectives he lied about that and it was wednesday when he received the information to pick the package the next morning. also initially the assistant said when they arrived at home the car he was told to put the package in was locked and later said the car was unlocked. he also said when he picked up the package he put the money in a manila folder. he put the money in a red line bag and later put the money in a manila folder in the car.
he changed from saying there were four bundles and we don't know that there were four versus two bundles and key points that the assistant changed the story on. makes you wonder whether they may be complicit. what's going on? the detectives are very active in this investigation and no other arrests have been made but they do believe that he did have other accomplices and i can tell you by reading it does appear that may be the case. >> one case a person with short hair an african-american male was seen with short hair driving the family car, the porsche. mr. went does not have short hair. >> right. that's an interesting point too. that's something investigators are looking at and comparing the
hairstyles. there was another witness that was interviewed and this is in the court documents. that witness had a picture of that red line bag with the money in it. that makes you wonder why a picture would be sent in the first place if they were told to pick up the package. >> strange that they would have lied to police. appreciate that. earlier seen and spoke by the father that they confirmed his brother was with him during the take down and he was respecting to bring him in to police. the police and the brother with four others. let's go to the fast-moving investigation. including the theory that this was not a one-person crime. we are joined by james allen fox. forensic pathologist and retired nypd detective. >> if i can take a second thank you for getting me the job here at cnn.
>> glad you are here. >> this man was responsible for this and i would like to thank cnn for this. >> great to have you here. what do you make of a witness changing their story and lying about details? >> i have no problem because that's not such a big thing to be able to do is drop off money and leave. the fact that he is changing his story told me he might be complicit. maybe the money was not dropped off. it's very, very strange and know they are taking a deep look at that. the prosecutors say that went did not act alone. they have been released. >> i'm very surprised. it tells me one of two things. either is they cooperated with the police fully and when they were separated, the stories were
consistently the same and couldn't break the stories on them. one thing they would have done is have unidentified evidence to match to that type of evidence. releasing them too fast. they were in custody for at least five or seven hours. >> the brutal nature of the crime and the amount of time spent in the house, what does that tell you about the individual or individuals? >> most mass murderers are not random. for which the victims were a
ceo. it may be that there was an element of vendetta along with the profits. they are very common. in cases like this 3/4 of the time there is more than one perpetrator. i would not be surprised if there is more than one. indeed the way this case will probably be cracked is some will turn the evidence and make a deal and testify against the others. >> in terms of linking the suspects to the crime whether it's dna or other evidence, what are they going to be looking for? according to the police report dna was taken off partially eaten pizza slices. >> the pizza slices were not burn and that makes it good for getting dna. if you are burning something, it's going to destroy the dna. primarily the medical examiner is going to be focusing on the injuries to the bodies and also
collecting any trace evidence on the bodies that can be linked to the suspect or suspects. things like clipping the finger nails. that can be a preserved area that can be linked to multiple suspects. >> if you have multiple people in the house and they believe there was more than one whether we were in the house or not. if you are in a house for more than 12 hours, there is a lot of places you might have left hair simples and things. >> that's right. the longer times they spent in that house, the more likely they will be spreading their evidence there and that gives them an
opportunity to look into that. that's to speak to the bodies and what killed this family and the housekeeper. >> there would have been a lot of blood involved for whoever committed these murders. >> only $10,000 was recovered. where did the rest go? it was really,000 or did it go to the other conspirators. it's amazing ow greed can be a powerful motivator. it happens time and time again.
money and profit over people's lives. coming up next more on how the dna evidence we have been discussing is gather and how it processed and analyzed in court. inside the process from start to finish. the scandal rocking america's best known and biggest reality tv family, the duggars. sexual abuse while publicly preaching family values. we'll be right back. kid: hey dad, who was that man? dad: he's our broker. he helps looks after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab
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>> there so many facts that shocked conscious in the washington murder case. other aspects sparked the imagination. we touched on this moments ago. there is a notion that a key piece of the puzzle with four people turned out to be the stuff that makes all of us human. dna. to a forensic scientist, it can be as good as a fingerprint. we see how they find it, isolate it and turn it into courtroom evidence. >> potentially the smoking gun and a pizza box found at the scene inside crust that investigators say connects darren to a heinous crime. >> this is a good find for an investigateor investigator. >> the doctor runs a dna lab at mt. sinai report. swab it to get as much dna. >> they also likely tested a crumb.
>> put it in a tube and get the cells out and proceed with the dna constructions. >> a machine separates out the dna. >> this is releasing the dna from the cell. >> then the sample is sample is ampified with the help of another machine. the laser traced the dna. what you see here. >> it's unique called a dna fingerprint to solve the case. that fingerprint can be added to or matched in a federal database including 14 million different profiles. >> hair, saliva, urine, semen. >> small clues picked up and they can yield millions of cells or just a few. cnn, new york. >> fascinating stauf.
for more dna from the lab and the courtroom, we are joined by the department at the john j college here in new york. also the defense attorney. >> the chances of this guy being on the databases, how does someone get on that from a prior crime? >> the database is called codis. it has three levels. a local database and state databases which the states keep and the national database. at the state level, they are eligible for the database. the point is there an awful lot of people that are convicted felons on this system. almost 12 million people. see this if somebody commits a crime and leaves dna behind
checking codis is likely to find a person if they committed a crime before. >> the specific evidence is fascinating because it's unique for its kind. what do you mean by that? >> dna evidence is circumstantial in its nature and we have been collecting from bite marks for about 20 years at least. they yield surprisingly good samples. people have been swabbing food like cheese even with the high bacteria content with a sample. these records are only going to increase with the supreme court ruling that not only can convicted defendants be dna swabbed, but those arrested without a warrant just on probably cause can be swab and their dna record stored just like fingerprinting or photographing.
that means that the databases will only grow going forward. the presence of his dna on the pizza if that's true which is what authorities have said that will place him at the scene we don't know what else they collected, if anything. >> playing devil's advocate and thinking like a defense attorney finding the pizza crust at the house places dna in the house. you look for the attorney to make the argument that pizza are things that can be carried in and transferred pretty easily and look for them to find out all the other dna that was collected from the house. we don't know who else was in the house. even though that dna that we know of now is strong
circumstantial evidence on the defense side. look for the attorney to make a lot of the fact that all that establishes that dna was on a pizza crust and there is other information that sort of clouds that conclusion. just thinking ahead. as long as that circumstantial evidence and it's strong there is another point. >> how much dna is left behind from somebody being in the house. i'm not talking about the bodies and blood evidence and fibers but if you have multiple assailants and perpetrators in the house, how likely is it? fires were set in specific rooms, but the house didn't go up in flame. how likely is it that the hair
fell off? quite likely. people lose 100 scalp hairs every day. you will have left your hair samples behind. this case what we are hearing is that the victims were wearing duct tape. it's not an easy specimen but it can be done. that might explain the presence with and somebody else. one thing they can do is tell you whether there mixtures or not and give us insight into weather there was more than one person. >> i didn't realize the 100 hair thing. scandal hits the duggar family after molestation changes. why no one did anything about it at the time.
while the arrest rate is taking of a dive. the police forces just doing the bare minimum on purpose. we will dig deeper. with type 2 diabetes and your a1c is not at goal with certain diabetes pills or daily insulin your doctor may be talking about adding medication to help lower your a1c. ask your doctor if adding once-a-week tanzeum is right for you. once-a-week tanzeum is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes along with diet and exercise. once-a-week tanzeum works by helping your body release its own natural insulin when it's needed. tanzeum is not recommended as the first medicine to treat diabetes or in people with severe stomach or intestinal problems. tanzeum is not insulin. it is not used to treat type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis and has not been studied with mealtime insulin. do not take tanzeum if you or your family have a history of medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you're allergic to tanzeum
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pa. >> 19 kids and counting is pulled from the air with accusations far beyond television. josh duggar apologized after reports he molested multiple young girls when he was 14. he writes that he acted inexcusably and hurt his family and friends. he also worked with the family research counsellor that is about faith and family that lobbies against same-sex marriage. he has now resigned from that position. it's not just what he did that caused outrage, but how his parents and police handled it. randi kay has detailed. >> 15 successful seasons for the duggar's reality show 19 kids and counting but the secret is out. josh duggar, now 27 and the oldest of the children on the show had sexually abused
several girls as a teenager and his parents didn't report it for sometime. in touch magazine broke the story. >> it was a total of five victims and the ages if you do the math the ages range probably between 5 and 12 years old. >> in touch magazine obtained the 2006 report. they report that josh duggar was investigated for multiple offenses. including some that were felonies. in touch found that jim bob duggar josh's father told police he was made aware of it in 2002 when a girl complained josh then 14 had been touching her breasts and genitals while she slept. instead of alerting authorities the magazine said jim bob told police josh had been disciplined. then it reportedly happened again in 2003. in a statement released thursday josh duggar said 12 years ago as a young teenager i exacted inexcusably for which i
am sorry and deeply regret. i hurt others including my family and close friends. >> what josh's statement doesn't say is that his parents didn't tell police about what happened until one year after their son confessed to them. one year. even then they reportedly alerted an arkansas state trooper who was also a family friend. that trooper didn't take any official action. instead the fashion zeen said the trooper gave josh a very stern talk. hutchins by the way is now serving 56 years in prison for child pornography. police only started investigating in 2006 after an anonymous letter to the oprah show warning producers if the duggars appear on oprah, she would be embarrassed. oprah's team called the child abuse hotline and police started asking questions. in touch reports that one of the victims told police in 2006 that
josh had told mother and dad what happened and asked for forgiveness. all of this has fans reeling. the duggars are devout christians. josh also worked as the executive director of frc action the lobbying arm of the family research council, a group known for advocating against the rights of the lgbt community. saying gays pose a danger to children. josh backed his mother's work opposing an ordinance designed to protect transgender people in arkansas. michelle duggar compared transgenders to child predators. >> here her son, most of the family knew what he had done in his past. it's hypocrisy. >> josh stepped down from the family research council thursday and tlc pulled 19 kids and counting from the schedule. >> we should point out they haven't canceled it but they are taking it off the air for
now. why is it coming out now? >> the police report was buried and it wasn't until in touch magazine filed the paperwork to get it made public, which they did. they said the victims had pretty much it appears forgiven josh duggar for this. he was asking for forgiveness and they tuesday brought them closer to god and it went away after all these years and didn't get much attention because police tried to interview him when they found out about it and jim bob said you can't interview my son and refused to bring him to the police station and hired a lawyer. that was the end of it. >> there is a statute of limitations. >> there is nothing they can do about it. >> more on the story in a moment and the troubling questions about why josh duggar was never prosecuted and why no one was protecting it seems his victims. details ahead.
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values. he talked about the virtue of waiting for his wedding day to even kiss his wife. >> not only to us but the young people in the room it was a testimony to be able to say they waited. >> he is alleged to have done a number of things with young girls and in some cases while they were asleep. joining me is our psychiatrist and cnn's brian. first of all, the fact that josh duggar's father waited more than a year to tell police about this he told people at his church but no one in the church said anything about it to police in all that time. what do you make of this? >> very troubling, anderson. the father is not a mandatory reporter but he did talk to people in the church because quite possibly clergy and pastors may be mandatory reporters and had an obligation to report this to the police.
this whole story is disturbing because it looks as if there may have been relatives involved who were the victims of this crime. everyone is talking about it like it's a mistake. a youthful indiscretion. it's important that we call it what it is and criminal acts were committed by josh duggar and we need to be honest and clear about that. otherwise we marginalize the victims. >> the idea that this guy, josh duggar according to in touch magazine only got a stern talking to from a trooper and his father later took him to a trooper who according to this magazine is serving 56 years in prison for child pornography. it sounds crazy. it sounds like he got special treatment. i don't know of a lot of kids in different circumstances who are not famous who would get a stern talking to from a law enforcement personnel. >> complete uneven justice in this case. that state trooper had an
obligation to conduct an investigation and turn the changes over to the district attorney. it wasn't his decision to make as to what should happen. this is a sexual assault that is a class b felony under arkansas law. there would have been a prosecution by the attorney and josh could have ended up in juvenile detention and in a facility. he would have been punished at the same time hopefully know intervention and rehabilitation. by this trooper acting as judge and jury, complete dereliction of his duties and cps too. we have to talk about where was child protective services in all of this because the victims had not been protected and the system failed them. >> the network that they showed, they pulled all the episodes from the air. i wonder if this will be seen -- it sounds like it already is being seen through the lens of politics. they have political leaders talking about forgiveness and
whether this will become the phil robertson thing where people take sides based on what side of the political isle they are on. >> mike huckabee's name was trending at the same time the name of the show was trending. he seemed to be courting social conservatives with his long message saying he wanted to run territories the family when others are running away from the family. he reported to wrap his arms around the family as they try to heal. this is being viewed through a business prism. tlc was a loudly contemned for showing reruns of the show. a marathon of the show while this was becoming national news. that may have contributed to the decision to take it off the schedule for the foreseeable future. it's not canceled, only off the schedule for now. they were not planning on being there to film the show. the question now is whether they will be back to film the show. it will be very, very difficult given the reports that among the
victims were some of the siblings. >> the fascination with this family is and the praise this family gets. i understand from the religious aspect but for parents to have 19 kids i don't care how great you are as a parent that's a lot of pressure in terms of actually taking care of 19 kids. >> we like to say it's quality over quantity when it am cans to parenting and there is an aspect of to that but you have to spend a certain amount of time with each child. when you have 19 that's very, very difficult to do. what ends up happening often with huge families is solder siblings end up parenting or coparenting the younger ones. that's a problem if you have someone who has an issue going on. that's why you need intervention. not just legally, but psychiatrically and for the victims who frankly are much more likely to suffer depression anxiety, and relationship difficulties.
we know this of abuse victims. without intervention i would really be concerned about them. >> without a form of justice. often times victims want a form of justice. survivors want to see. >> they want to be believed and validated. when the family keeps it a secret and sequesters it that is not validation and that is retraumatizing. >> part of me wonders if this story is getting attention because of the allegations of hypocrisy that josh duggar works for an organization the family research council that time and time again suggested that gay people are more likely to be child molesters even though statistically that is not the case. >> you are right about that. that is dominating the online conversation. the word hypocrisy came up right away and continued to come up again and again. we saw josh duggar step down from the council and saw the
group distance himself from him. there were lots of photos with him shaking hands with presidential candidates and that's one of the reason yes this is going to linger as an issue in the days to come. >> i haven't heard many people raising concerns about recidivism which i wonder if politically if this was somebody else or from a different socioeconomic background if they would be lookinga the it through the same lens. >> i think everything did b this story would be different if this was not josh duggar and the family that made millions for a network because of their television show. she is standing by her husband and they were the victims of a crime. we can't lose sight of that and talk about it in any way than to talk about the crime that was committed. the statute may have run, but there needs to be an investigation about how it slipped through the cracks and why wasn't it prosecuted and
held and the acts doesn't happen to any other victims and they feel free knowing that the system will work in the way it should. to prosecute and punish perpetrators of crimes. just ahead, a baltimore police officer. # officers are refusing to follow their marching orders. an update on the florida dentist accused of performing unnecessary and painful procedures on children. making millions doing it. there is a new development in the story.
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make the call and ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. new larger size now available. one of the officers is speaking out about what they say is a backlash within the ranks. a grand jury indicted the six officers changed in gray's death. if convicted they could spent decades in prison. they have plunge and murders surged. the officer you are about to hear from asked us to obscure their face because of fear of
retribution said they are no accident. >> where is morale for police officers? >> in the sewers. it's down. it's the worst it ever was i have seen in my career. >> a police officer a dozen years on the force said the spike in murders and gun crimes is the direct result of a coordinated police work slow down. >> why do you think there is an increase in the murder rates? >> officers stopped being proactive. >> not patrolling? >> not talking to community. >> stop being proactive. with the murder rate sky rocking, guns being fired in bigger numbers. nonfatal shootings up at least 66%. areas across the city have seen the most serious crimes on the
rise. limited to local press only the commissioner acknowledged an issue and claim it was only in the police district where they were experiencing the problems. >> we are making good arrests and searches and seizures. throughout the city, the organization is doing well. what i have a concern about and talking to officers the epicenter of the riots in the western district. this officer said they lost confidence in their leadership who are not protecting them. they said they have one thing in daily briefings and do another. no more calls from this. >> no matter what commanders told you -- >> the police said they are only responding to 911 calls.
no investigation. just responding. the bare minimum of policing. only the most serious get attention. some go hours with no response and when police respond, it will only go in pairs and their own safety is the priority. >> as officers you say we have to get each other's back. one score the officer agrees with the protesters. >> what do you think about their claims is right? >> well, and too much about moving it. they believe arresting people is the way of the crime. >> this officer who is looking for other jobs said things are so bad only one thing will
change. >> cnn, baltimore, maryland. >> under fire from the months the investigation from the police force. >> the alleged slow down and first this was one police officer. this person man or woman, i can't say, they said they lost confidence in the ability to lead calling for the resignation. do you feel that's representative of a lot of police officers on your force? a lot of people with different opinion who is were hurt. officers here feel like they are not supported. they are just in a time with the whole.
there is not one issue within the police organization that is going through a shaking. i think officers are realizing they are going through a transition that a change has to take place within the police department as well as the city is going through a shaking time. do you have officers that may not be pleased with me? i am a reformed chief of police. i came here at the direction to make changes and we are going through the changes over the last two years. i think what officers usually want you to do is no matter what they do, stand up for them and say i support my guys. i think the police officers in baltimore have the hearts of lions. you have a lot of good police officer who is do a very good job and are very dedicated. i have no problem in identifying officers who are problematic in addressing them. >> murders and other crimes are way up since the freddie gray incident. baltimore has seen 39 murders and arrests are way down before the freddie gray incident.
the average arrest was 626. last week it was down to 358 if i'm not mistaken. how do you explain that? is there a work slow down? >> i hope not. i hope that my guys will have stronger characters and how do you find out and realize. as my guys have strong kirk i hope they realize what the reaction are and the fact that the community needs them. when i'm going through the roll calls, what i share is the fact that remember why you came on to this job and why you put that gun belt and that badge on and why you wear that uniform for the grandmothers and the babies and the little ones. because you have a degree of uncertainty within the organization some officers asked about realm suspicion. do they need more training and do they need to know how to articulate it and feel
comfortable with that? we need to make sure they feel and they are comfortable with that. we had counsellors in this entire week because officers need itted to get steam off and share frustrations. for the things that are tangible we are listening to them and we are inspiring them. we are reminding them why they do the job they do every day. this city counts on them. i hope that there is not a slow down and what message that sends to the munt and the government. >> the numbers do seem to indicate some sort of a slow down. the police only respond to 911 calls and not walking the beat. no investigation. just doing the bare minimum of policing. you have to send in multiple officers to respond to just regular calls. >> yeah there is an array of different things that are occurring. you said that i said that there
was only violence in the western and that's not the truth. i said the western is leading our city in the level of violence. even during the week we had civil unrest we had nine homicides that took place. when we investigated the shootings, they were connected to what we believe as gang-related activities. it wasn't by happen stance that they took place. we had four or five people shot in a shooting that was a historic gang warfare that had taken place. our numbers are soaring because we have groupings of shooting people in groupings that lead us to the shootings that have taken place. with the shooting yesterday, the officers came and engaged. you have officers on the scenes. they chase the bad guys in the house. whey know is that of officers have taken off ten plus guns. they have done multiple search
warrant asks did search warrants in the western. officers are making impacts and contacts and some are frustrated and rangry and have to work through this and be professional. >> it's tough to talk about and appreciate you. >> thank you, sir. >> a major update on the florida dentistry reported on who enraged dozens of parents after allegedly harming their kids while bilking medicaid. blap # be a morning person again with aleve pm. we got the new tempur-flex and it's got the spring and bounce of a traditional mattress. you sink into it, but you can still move it around. now that i have a tempur-flex, i can finally get a good night's sleep. when i flop down on the bed,
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