tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 27, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
nothing. >> so how does she helpther women beat life on the streets? it's an amazing story, and you'll find out at cnnheroes.com. while you're there, you should check out all of our top ten cnn heroes and vote once a day every day for your favorite as cnn hero of the careyear, again cnnheroes.com. that's it for us tonight. thank you for watching. see you right back here tomorrow after the republican debate, though, that's at midnight. it's a special time. "a.c. 360" starts right now. good evening, thanks for joining us tonight. tonight, how donald trump is dealing with life at someplace other than the top of the pack. week after week, poll after poll he's defied political gravity and conventional wisdom. that began changing several days ago in iowa. today for the first time nationwide since july, trump is trailing ben carson by just four points in a new cbs and "new york times" poll. he's speaking at a rally in sioux city, iowa. this morning he started down
playing the polls calling them not very scientific. tonight he spoke again about the new numbers. >> and get a little shakeup in iowa, i don't know what's going on. >> keep going, donald! >> somebody said are you going straight to new hampshire? now, i love new hampshire. we've got great numbers. 38%-12%. but we fell a little behind in iowa, and some people are saying, how can it be? in every poll, this isn't just here, that the people that are with trump are with trump. they don't go anywhere. they're staying. it's true. i see it. i see it. you know, a couple times they say, well, that could be the end then they do something. i'm ten points up. it's the craziest thing, right? we'll take it. >> that was donald trump a few moments ago. in a moment we'll run all the new numbers in detail for you. first quickly let's go to cnn's sara murray at the event tonight. it is interesting to see how he's now kind of questioning the scientific merit of some of these polls. >> reporter: yeah, he certainly
is, and you know, you can understand why he's confused because he comes to events like this, he draws a bigger crowd than any other republican candidate, and he wonders why it's not showing up in the poll numbers. there was some talking so some of his campaign staff, they say, look, maybe these polls aren't capturing our supporters. trump is drawing a lot of new people into the process. maybe these are people who are not caucused before who will show up for us on election day. trump is certainly not pleased with the numbers. he talked a little bit more about the polls tonight saying, i'm a great christian, evangelicals let me down and basically saying it's terrible to be in second place. this is not where trump wants to be in the first nominating state, anderson. >> there have been questions about whether or not he would basically bypass iowa, give it up essentially and focus on new hampshire and south carolina. but he's saying tonight he's not going to do that. >> reporter: yeah, i don't think we have any sense of that here. if anything, trump seems like he wants to work harder to get back in the lead here in iowa and he's been building a robust ground game. his team has been working for months teaching people how to caucus, making sure that they're
going to show up, but it's clear that if you're not the front-runner, even if you are, you need to stay in contact with your supporters if you want to make sure that they're going to show up and actually caucus for you come february. >> he has set his sights on carson in the last couple days. did he talk more about carson tonight? >> reporter: he's only made a couple passing references to carson tonight, sort of mocking the idea that ben carson could really be his competition. you heard him just now over my shoulder saying he still believes he's going to win in iowa. what i think will be interesting is tomorrow night on the debate stage how he makes the contrast with ben carson. economic, business, tax-focused debate, donald trump's wheelhouse. we can expect to see him make a contrast and say, look, i'm a guy who's created jobs, understands the economy. how is ben carson qualified to deal with issues like this? >> appreciate the reporting. i want to get the latest on the polling. including the evangelical factor sarah mentioned as well as new results on the democratic side that could provide a boost for hillary clinton. chief national correspondent
john king breaks it all down by the numbers. so, john, this is the first national poll since early july with trump not in the lead, right? >> it is. that's worth repeating for for t the first time since early july donald trump is not in the lead of a poll. the cbs/"new york times" poll has ben carson at 26%, trump at 22%. you have jeb bush, carly fiorina rounding out the pack. donald trump has said, i'm winning, i'm the winner. look at the trend line. when carson was at 6 %, then 23%, now 26%. trump is still considered the front-runner. he's coming down. he won't like that. the big challenge for these other candidates not just carson and trump tomorrow night, but rubio, bush, fiorina, if you're down here you're still looking at the two outsiders and by far the come nadominant position.
in the cbs/"new york times" poll carson up ten points among ev evangelicals in a few week. donald trump down 12%. this is the reason the republican party is in flux. >> i'm sure the people waiting for donald trump to fade are going to herald this as the beginning of the end. is there any time this is actually the case, though? >> not so much. certainly he's slipping. he's plateaued. he's down in some polls. he still has considerable strength. if you look at the real clear politics average of the polls in iowa, carson has a nine-point lead in iowa, votes first in 96 days. that's good for carson. iowa's history is it picks somebody but then new hampshire and south carolina tend to actually pick the republican nominee. in those states, anderson, trump is plus-16, in new hampshire plus-13. the question is as he drops in the national polls and iowa, will there be an effect in south carolina? we don't see it yet because of carson's strength. to look at the iowa poll, if you look quickly, a new iowa poll has carson at 32%.
trump has to make a strategic choice. he's in iowa today. does he keep fighting in iowa? in iowa, like we saw nationally, carson was going up among evangelicals. trump is going down. one of the key questions for donald trump might be do i compete everywhere or say see you later, iowa, and focus on new hampshire and south carolina? >> also in the democratic side, some interesting stuff going on in iowa. >> an eye-popping number in a new iowa poll. the monmouth university poll out today, look at this, 65% for hillary clinton, 24% for bernie sanders, the first poll taken completely post joe biden saying i'm not running and post her testimony to the benghazi select committee. that is a whopping lead. a week earlier quinnipiac had a strong poll for clinton at 51-40. i wouldn't buy into 65-24, but you should buy into the fact that she's had a couple of very strong weeks and her support is
growing. the more important number than the horse race, anderson, look at this, in both monmouth and quinnipiac polls, 88% favorable in one, 82% favorable in the other. among iowa democrats. very low unfavorable rating. so the combination of her debate performance, joe biden saying i'm not running and the benghazi testimony, hillary clinton's favorability among democrats is going off the charts, helping her in iowa without a doubt. >> incredible numbers. john, thank withdrew very muyou donald trump also spoke briefly tonight as sarah murray just reported about ben carson. >> when you get the numbers up, iowa, please? this is ridiculous. i mean, what is my competition? in all fairness, what is my competition? do you think these guys, i'm not going to say carson, i'm not going to say rubio who really is way down. i mean, i am second. it's not, like, terrible, but i don't like being second. second is terrible to me.
but, but do you think that ben is going to go to china? >> want to get some reaction now from the carson camp. joining us, radio host, carson business manager, armstrong williams. mr. williams, great to have you on again. i want to ask you about trump's comments today. he said, "what is my competition, is again goiben go to china?" how to you respond to that? >> well, good evening, again, thank you for having me. dr. carson only competes with himself, anderson. dr. carson realizes that this is a marathon, it is not a sprint. and he is not obsessed with polls, whether it shows that he's in the lead in iowa, any other place. he realizes that this election is way off and what he has to do is continue to hone his message, introduce himself to iowans, south carolinians, nations where they make the difference, they make the votes. what he has to do, what he realizes that the more people get to know him, the more they
understand his message, the more they understand his temperament, his judgment, his resolve and the fact that he is authentic, that he is also trustworthy and it's shown in his favorability ratings that he believes this is a steady drip. he will continue to do well. and it doesn't matter about the attacks that mr. trump may levy. we understand that is his personality. that's what he's going to do and he's absolutely right, he hates being in second place. but dr. carson doesn't mind leading from behind, leading ahead. he realizes there's a lot of work to be done. he has a lot of ground to cover between now and when the real horse race starts in february. he's quite confident not only will he continue to grow in iowa, but he can close the gap in other states you've shown like south carolina and places like new hampshire. >> let me ask you, obviously he's preparing for the debate tomorrow night. you know, if past is any
indication, donald trump is likely to, whether in a nice way or not, try to strongly contrast himself to dr. carson given they are trading places now for the lead here. does dr. carson need to respond to trump on that debate stage when he's standing next to him, and you even had donald trump the other day, you know, bringing up dr. carson's religion and sort of, you know, in an oblique reference to it saying he didn't understand what it was about, know what it was about. i don't want to misquote him. is that something that dr. carson needs to respond to when he's on that debate same? . >> anderson, the only thing dr. carson will respond to tomorrow night on the debate stage are issues about the debt ceiling, issues about how to you close the economic gap in these places like baltimore, ferguson, and these inner cities. how do you make taxes fair for everyone? how do you liberate the poor and make them realize that they, too, can realize the american dream? while we understand that tomorrow especially given that
this is the third debate, people don't want combativeness. they don't want disrespect. they don't want rudeness. they want to see gentlemen who are vying for the highest office in america to show that they have a grasp of the issues, and obviously mr. trump clearly feels that the economy and creating jobs and the kind of issues that are being discussed tomorrow by cnbc plays to his strength, but i will tell withdrew dr. carson will be no slouch tomorrow. he's well prepared. >> let me ask you, the, obviously we were just looking at the numbers with john king in iowa, there's, you know, a strong evangelical turnout. in the past years we've seen governor huckabee winning, we've seen senator santorum winning in iowa. they did not obviously go on to win in other states, and to get the nomination. do you -- does dr. carson believe that after iowa, however he does, whether he wins or however he places, that he has to in any way change his focus, his message, particularly if he makes it into a general
election? >> of course, his message will evolve, anderson. of course his policies, the more -- and also as you get to that point that you just mentioned, hopefully if dr. carson is still in the top tier, there will be less candidates on that debate stage and you'll have a more robust debate where you really get really in-depth and to the issues. you have more time for responding and answering. so obviously as this progresses along, there will be less people vying for that two hour precious time so that will make a huge difference. it will really give him an opportunity where he does best, getting into the real details of the issues. >> armstrong williams, always good to have you on. thank you, sir, appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up next we'll dig deeper into where the gop race now stands and how big a momentum shift, if any, we're now experiencing. plus we'll talk to this guy's boss, the south carolina sheriff who's now weighing to do about the deputy and school resource officer who was caught on this video.
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it threatens to take away until now has been his most effective sales pitch. the phrase, i'm number one. >> i say to people when they always say, you love to mention the polls, nobody else does. i say, that's because they're losing, they're not stupid pe people. i've spent less than anybody else and i have highest poll numbers. instead of criticizing, i should be given credit for that. cnn did this really expensive very well-done poll. it's only well done because i was leading by a lot. winning everything, everything. every state. we're winning everything. i love polls. everybody knows i love polls and they said i wonder what would happen if trump wasn't number one in the poll. and somebody said, oh, if he wasn't number one, maybe he'd drop out of the race. believe me, i'm not dropping out of anything. i'm in love with polls. >> again, that began changing with the iowa polling late last week then new national results today. let's dig deeper with cnn political commentator anna navarro and jeffrey, a trump
supporter and former reagan white house political director. she's a jeb bush supporter and a friend of marco rubio's. jeffrey, is the trump campaign trying to have it both ways? trump is vocal when leading in the polls constantly point to them. now he's saying they're sort of unreliable. >> well, he said the other day that he took them seriously, that he was paying attention to them. one of the details in this poll, the cbs/"new york times" poll i found fascinating, we're talking iowa here, were very firm in their support, they made up their mind, they were sticking with donald trump. 80% of the carson supporters said they really weren't so sure, maybe they could change their mind down the road. i find that a very fascinating statistic here and i think it's probably indicative of the mindset of a lot of folks there. >>en anna, i want to play something else that trump said about polling just tonight. >> from the time i announced, i've been at the top of the polls, almost at the -- you know, we're doing well.
iowa, will you get your numbers up, please? >> i heard, i think it was ryan lizza from the "new yorker" and also with cnn saying earlier on wolf blitzer's show that the establishment candidates, your candidate, bush, rubio, some of the others would love it if carson and trump got into a slugfest and essentially weakened each other and create a lane for them. >> gee, i don't want to talk about it i'm so afraid of jinxing it. >> you're so hopeful. >> i'm so giddy about the idea of that happening i don't want to discuss it on air. but, look, it's, you know, he is right. he has led in the polls for a long, long time, but, you know, donald trump has been known to fall in love and fall out of love before so it's not a surprise that he'd be doing it with polls. it's going to be interesting to see how he reacts to it because he's only had leading poll numbers. so now he's heading into a debate. he's heading into the fall. people are focusing on policy. people are getting a lot more laser focused on these elections coming up in places like iowa
and new hampshire, and we don't know how donald trump is going to react. is he going to be the same donald trump we've seen for the last six months? or are are we going to see a new facet of donald trump? >> ben carson among evangelicals, growing support among evangelicals, donald trump likes to say the evangelicals love me but clearly they seem to be going for dr. ben carson. i'm wondering if they start to believe that carson is not the candidate who actually could win the nomination and win the presidency if those evangelicals who are supporting carson would go to donald trump or if they, in fact, would go to somebody else, marco rubio, a cruz, somebody else? >> i think they probably would go to donald trump. one of the things that i think is in play, first of all as i said before, i was as i said talking to somebody in iowa the other day who said to me what i've been saying, evangelicals are not stick figures. one of their biggest concerns,
for example, is illegal immigration. donald trump is very strong on that. but one of the things i think is important here that's sort of coming out, if you will, left or maybe right field, is this budget deal in washington and the debt ceiling deal, et cetera, which is already vastly unpopular with the base of the republican party. that kind of thing can only fuel the trump campaign because it says everything exactly about the insiders versus the outsiders. and i think we need to keep our eye on that as we go along and get into this next debate. >> ana, do you think dr. carson is electable in a general election? >> i think he's got to prove a lot more than he has so far in this primary. i think he has to sound a lot more knowledgeable and present a lot more policy and be more electable by knowing federal policy and about the national security issues that face this country. but, you know, look, i give a lot of credit to donald trump. sticking to the religious theme, it's a small miracle that he has stayed on top in iowa for so long, a place which is all about
iowa nice which where faith is so important. this is a guy who's been nothing but bluster, who's insulted everybody and their brother and mother and sister, and yet he has stayed on top. he has defied logic. iowa logic. iowa is notorious for being a late decider. sometimes people change their mind on their way to the caucus, or in the caucus room, itself. so, you know, i think we shouldn't read that much into the polls, but i do think that we're beginning to see a trendline and the hot air come out of donald trump's balloon. >> ana thnavarro. yeah, jeff? >> one last thought, anderson, ronald reagan lost the iowa caucuses in 1980 and won new hampshire, south carolina and eventually over a long period of time he won the nomination. so there's a long way to go here, and iowa is not necessarily determinative. >> we've certainly seen that with rick santorum and huckabee as well. >> mccain lost iowa caucuses.
ra romney lost the iowa caucuses after a recount. the fbi investigating whether this school resource officer committed a crime when he did this to a high school student who refused to leave the classroom. today the officer's boss says the student bears some responsibility for what happened. i'll talk to him ahead. ss have ? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? good. very good. you see something moving off the shelves and your first thought is to investigate the company. you are type e*. yes, investment opportunities can be anywhere...
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tonight the violent arrest of a south carolina high school student is now the focus of an fbi investigation and federal civil rights investigation as well. several students videotaped the incident as it went down inside an algebra classroom. if you haven't seen the images, they are hard to watch. a school resource officer slamming a 16-year-old to the ground taking her from the desk after she allegedly refused to le leave the classroom. the officer was called to the classroom after the student allegedly disrupted class taking out her cell phone. ben fields has been suspended without leave pending a investigation by the sheriffs department and the student is facing a charge of disturbing schools. this happened yesterday. within hours the videos went viral. gary tuchman joins me with the latest. you're in south carolina. what you learned? >> reporter: anderson, behind me in this school a regularly scheduled board of education meeting that's been anything but
regular because the first topic under discussion was this incident. members of the public were allowed to come in today to speak out. it has been very civil. most people very angry about what happened, but others defending the deputy. meanwhile, the sheriff of this county says within 24 hours at this time tomorrow he will make a decision about the fate of his deputy. this sheriff leon lott says he felt like throwing up when he saw the two videos yesterday and he saw a third video that was made today which he says shows more than the other two. >> it actually shows the student hitting the school resource officer with her fists and striking. now, what she does is not what i'm looking at. what i'm looking at is what our school resource officer did. what was his actions? what did he do? that's where i'll make my determination based on that. so even though she was wrong for disturbing the class, even though she refused to abide by
the directions of the teacher, the school administrator, and then also the verbal commands of our deputy, i'm looking at what our deputy did. >> reporter: the sheriff says to his knowledge the teenager at the center of all this was not injured. anderson? >> and what are school officials, what are they saying? >> reporter: well, we got a chance today to talk to the principal of the school, the superintendent of the school district, the chairman of the board of education and others, and none of them wanted to say what they think the fate of this deputy should be until all the investigations are over, but nobody differed from this assessment by the chairman of the board of education, anderson. >> yesterday's incident was an outrageous exception to the culture, conduct, and standards in which we so strongly believe in in this district. there is absolutely no place in this district or any other district for that matter for
what happened here yesterday. our tolerance for it is zero. >> reporter: it seems very clear, anderson, that among the educators, among the sheriff, that nobody, none of them, are blowing this off. >> yeah. gary, thank you very much. i want to bring in sheriff leon lott. thanks for being with us. i'm sorry it's under these circumstances. you said in the press conference we played earlier one of the videos shows the student punching the officer. i want to flay that for our viewers in slow motion to get a sense of what it is you mean. the officer grabbed her around the neck, grabbing her backwards, you see her swing or flail with her right hand. she hangs on before the desk is flipped over then she's dragged across the ground. do you believe that strike was in any way justification for what the officer did? >> no. never said that. i'll never say that.
there's no justification for some of his actions and that's what we're looking at, so i don't want anybody to think that just the fact she did strike an officer that's justification for some of the actions he took. >> how should, i mean, look, this is a difficult situation. how should a police officer have handled this? >> well, to begin with, the police officer should have never been called in the first place. you know, this is something the school should have handled. once they called us there and said, you know, remove her from the classroom, then the officer had to something. now, his methods of doing it is what we're examining and that's what's going to determine his fate continuing as a deputy sheriff of richland county. >> so it's really his methods, i mean, can you say now what methods you believe he should have used if it actually came to the point where he had to remove her, what he should have done? >> well, i really don't want to go into details of that until this investigation's finished. it will be finished tomorrow.
you know, we want to deescalate situations instead of escalate them. when you have somebody on trial, you don't want to throw gasoline on them. you want to put the fire out. that's what we train our deputies to do is deescalate a situation so we don't have to use physical force. you know, that's one option that's there. there's other options that our deputies are taught when they do have to put their hands on someone, how they do it. nat that's what we're looking at. did he follow proper procedures we train them to do? >> does the age of the student matter here? the fact it was a minor. should that impact things one way or another? >> it's not going to impact my decision. my decision is going to be based on did he follow our procedures? now, i asked the fbi to come in and do a criminal investigation. that may have something to do with their findings, but my finding is going to be based on what he did after he puts his hands on her. was that our proper procedures we train our deputies to do?
you know, his size, her size. you know, that's all factors that are involved in this. >> you're clearly moving quickly. you hope to make a determination within 24 hours. as you said, you asked the justice department and fbi to investigate. why did you feel necessary to reach out to the fbi, to the justice department? >> well, our position is to investigate the internal policy. did he violate them? not the criminal intent if he had any. an independent agency needs to do that, and there's no one more respected that does a thorough investigation and a fair investigation than the fbi. and we work very closely with the fbi and i immediately called them and asked them to come in and do the investigation. contacted our u.s. attorney and spoke with him and asked him to see if the justice department could do a civil rights investigation. and they both agreed. you know, i think the people of richland county and the people of the world have seen this. they want somebody to investigate this and come up
with some answers and find out if he did violate her rights, if he did violate the law. what i'm looking at is did he violate our policies? that will determine his employment here at the sheriffs department. >> regardless whatever you decide, regardless of the investigations, do you hope that, or do you expect to try to kind of pinpoint in the future between your department and the school when it's appropriate to actually call the school resource officer in, when to call the police in? >> yeah, i think that's an issue that we need to address, and that the schools need to understand that when they call us in and ask us to do something, our deputies are going to respond and sometimes it may be physical force that we're doing because that's what they want us to do. that's what they're asking us to do. so they need to determine, you know, at what time is that necessary? is this something that the school should handle? and that's some discussions that we're going to have with the school district, and maybe come up with some better procedures. >> sheriff lott, i do appreciate your time, sir. thank withdryou very much. >> thank you. just ahead, more about the
as we reported earlier, richland county, south carolina, deputy ben fields has been suspended without pay after his arrest of a high school student inside a math classroom. several cell phone videos showing the violent takedown have gone viral sparking fbi and justice department investigations. the deputy at the center of the firestorm isn't new to the job. he's been a school resource officer for seven years and also helped coach the high school's football team. until yesterday he was virtually unknown outside his community. tonight, though, he certainly is are well known. miguel marquez joins me from south carolina with more details. so the officer does have -- what do we know about his history? >> reporter: well, he's not only been a resource officer since 2008, he's been with the sheriffs office since 2004. this is a guy who last year got one of the highest commendations for a school resource officer in this district. the cultural excellence award.
this is also somebody who was named in two federal civil rights lawsuits, one of them has been dealt with and a jury found that he had -- did nothing wrong and nobody involved in that case did anything wrong. the other one which also involves allegations of abuse of force is set to go before a judge this january. so we'll hear on that one. >> there are also allegations that there's a racial element to this incident. you've been digging in on that. what have you found? >> reporter: look, the people here are very attune to everything that's going across the country. they see this incident in terms of the other incidents that we have seen, whether in new york or in ferguson or in florida, wherever else across this country. certainly here in south carolina with the church shooting here, very, very fresh in people's minds. they see all of these things as related to each other. there have been claims that this is a little more than race. there was a board meeting, a school board meeting that just wrapped up. they allowed people to speak. a lot of anger from some of the
parents there about the racism that they feel is directed at their kids at this school. that said, the sheriff said something very interesting during his press conference today which was this is an officer they've never seen exhibit any sort of racial attitudes whatsoever, and perhaps most surprising, the sheriff almost didn't want to admit it but said this is a guy who has had a long-term relationship with an african-american woman so he thought if it cut any way, it would cut toward the direction of the young woman that he's accused of assaulting. so i think they're going to -- the sheriff's going to give it a good long think over the next 24 hours, 18 hours now, and come up with a decision very, very quickly. >> miguel marquez. thank you. joini inin ining me now, sunny cnn law enforcement analyst and retiremented nypd detective harry houck and michael dorn, former chief of police for the county georgia school system and executive director of safe havens international. safe havens works with individual schools for
preparedness and campus safety. what do you make of this video, what you see in it? >> well, it's hard to get an exact picture just from the video. i will say what i see depicted is troubling. assuming if you take the standpoint that the arrest was valid, needed to be made, the techniques used are not consistent with the way officers are typically trained so it definitely bears scrutiny with independent and thorough investigation which is proceeding from what you're reporting. >> you're saying assuming the arrest was valid there were other methods to use that would not have resulted in this same, well, what we see on the video? >> yes. the techniques used by the officer as i see them on the video are inconsistent with the way police officers are trained. if you have a noncompliant individual and do have cause to arrest. in addition, questions have been raised, the sheriff mentioned deescalation training. there are evidence-based techniques that can reduce the chances this would accelerate to an arrest.
and there are procedures such as we urge our clients to have a room-clear protocol once it got to the situation where the officer was there, if the administrator and child wouldn't comply, we would clear the students from the room with the staff member to lower the tensions then let's have a little bit more discussion when you've got an individual that's not threatening anybody or simply not compliant and perhaps alleged in violation of state law but they're not immediately threatening anybody. >> harry, how does that sound to you. >> well, it's a good strategy, clearing the classroom and taking care of the child by yourself, where you're not having a backup come in. i think that's a very good idea. that's what they should have done. clearly it shows that the police department had no protocols to be able to deal with a situation like that. of course, the chief had said when he was speaking regarding this investigation, you know, anderson, you don't hear any district attorney's office talking about anything on this case. you know, you har an internal affairs investigations that tha going to be conducted. we'll hear from the chief what they're going to charge this officer with, if he's going to
be charged with anything at all. the main concern with the chief when he was talking was the fact that did this officer follow directions for the police department protocol for this incident? if that officer gets fired, he's not going to get fired for a criminal case. he's going to get fired because he did not follow the protocol, you know, the procedures the department laid out for a situation like that. >> it does seem, sunny, i mean, when you talk to -- you just heard from michael dorn, even the sheriff there saying that the fact that he's focusing on the actual techniques that were used doesn't seem to weigh in the favor of this officer. >> absolutely not. i mean, i think it's very clear at least to my eyes having seen a lot of videotapes of police takedowns, as a prosecutor, of course, i looked at tapes on arrests. bottom line is you don't use what he called in his incident report a muscling technique to arrest a 16-year-old. it is clear in my view that he uses what appears to be almost a
choke hold and takes her down and tosses her across the room. the legal standard is whether or not the force used was reasonable and necessary. reasonable and necessary. anyone looking at that videotape, and every single law enforcement officer saying i find it disturbing because anyone looking at it knows that that was unreasonable and unnecessary. >> harry, i mean, the sheriff pointed to the punch saying, look, that doesn't justify what the officer did. >> of course it does. >> you think that it actually does justify -- >> of course. i mean, i don't know where this chief's talking from. the fact he gets punched in the face -- >> punched in the face. 2000. >> -- as he's trying to pull her up from that chair. >> here it agabegins. >> would you mind letting me speak? she's resisting him all the way. i slowed this video down today and watched it 10, 15 times. i think that desk went over by mistake jolt as a result of her keeping away from the police officer. >> doesn't the punch occur long
after this is in progress? >> yes, it does. >> it looks like she's -- >> the choke hold. >> there was no choke hold. what happened he came around her like this, all right, he had her leg and tried to pull her out of the chair. that's what it looks like to me. then she comes around and punches him and that sort of thing. >> punches him. >> yes. >> michael, do you think this has any bearing or should have any bearing on how the sheriff decides this case? because he's saying it doesn't, but the sheriff is saying it should not, that he's solely focused on what this officer did. not what she did. >> well, again, you've got multiple issues here. this officer under our legal system can actually be tried four different times, twice in civil situations, twice in criminal jurisdictions, federal and superior court depending on what the facts bear. and those things, i know it looks obvious to everybody when you watch the video but i've worked many, many cases where you see video then you get more
information and it sometimes changes what you see. there's a basic point if the sheriffs department procedures, the training methodologies are violated, that could be an area of focus. i think to fully clarify the situation is going to require a very thorough and detailed investigation, but the sheriff is talking from a standpoint as a police administrator what he's going to focus on to take his action and he's already referred this case to the federal government for an independent investigation. >> so, sunny, from a legal standpoint the fbi could bring charges separate from whatever determination the sheriff, himself, makes. >> absolutely. you know, i think the sheriff is going to make this administrative decision whether or not this is an officer that should still be working as an officer. the fbi is going to look at whether or not there was a civil rights violation. and i'm not talking about race. i'm talking about unreasonable search and seizure. talking about everyone's fourth amendment right to be free from someone taking them and tossing them around like a rag doll.
we have that constitutional right not to be seized, not to be searched. i think the fbi doesn't take these cases on lightly and so the fact that this officer has been suspended without pay, the fact that this sheriff is talking about a 24-hour decision-making process as to whether or not this officer can keep his job and the fact that the fbi is involved, i think really shows you just how serious this officer's actions were. >> that's typical. the fbi is going to come in and take a look at this anyway. >> typical? >> yes. >> the fbi just comes in and -- >> every chief of police is now going to ask in a situation like this for the fbi to come in. and i tell you right now the fbi are going to find nothing. >> do you think he'll be punished administratively? >> a possibility, yes. >> all right. harry houck, michael dorn, good to have you on. sunny hostin as well. coming up, the united states weighing its options for increasing its attacks on isis. question is will it mean more american troops on the ground in iraq and syria? the latest on that next. can a business have a mind?
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decision yet. defense and administration sources say one of the possibilities is more american troops on the ground in iraq and syria. our pentagon correspondent barbara starr joins me now with the latest. how real a possibility is this? >> you know, anderson, this is exactly what the president said he would not do, have combat forces on the ground. now we are hearing about it, so how real? officials are telling me there's two things in play here. one is presidential legacy. the president having only so many months left in office, and he wants to show more progress in iraq and syria than the current strategy is currently getting. and second, russia. russia certainly throwing a bit of a wrench in the works. a lot of chatter out there underground so to speak that russia and iraq may be cozying up to each other. and the u.s. wants to show more progress to the iraqi government, keep them in the u.s. court rather than having them shift to moscow. so, what are we talking about? in fact, defense secretary carter talking about direct
action by u.s. forces. and that means special operations forces on the ground in these high-stakes raids. carter saying he wanted to step up the action in places like syria, ramadi in iraq, both isis strong holds. how soon could this start happening? the president still has to approve all of this. what they're really talking about is getting ready for it and saying, you know, it's opportunist, when they see the opportunities such as the raid that we saw last week in northern iraq, they want to take advantage of those opportunities. that raid, of course, leading to the first combat death of a u.s. service member, master sergeant joshua wheeler. just really underscoring that all of this is very dangerous business. >> yeah. barbara, appreciate the reporting. let's get the other stories we're following. amra walker has a "360 news and business bulletin." >> hi there, anderson. republican leaders say they're hoping to pass a budget deal as early as tomorrow.
the vote could be close with the number of lawmakers refusing to endorse it. senator rand paul says the debt ceiling should be used to enforce spending restraint and he'll do everything he can to stop the current budget deal including a filibuster. china says it tracked a u.s. navy warship in the south china sea and gave a warning with its own warships and naval warplanes. a u.s. defense official says it was a routine operation in accordance with international law. more trouble in the national park in zimbabwe where an american dentist killed cecil the lion. park officials say 22 elephants were found dead poisoned by cyanide which poachers favor since it is a silent death. and on a lighter note, a celestial happy hour. scientists say a comet is pumping out alcohol. it's called comet love joy and it's, get this, the equivalent of 500 bottles of wine every second. it's the first time ethelalcohol has been observed in a comet.
pretty cool. i wonder if that means the comet is drunk. >> i don't fknow. i didn't do very well in science. amra, thanks very much. we'll be right back. excellent looking below the surface, researching a hunch... and making a decision you are type e*. time for a change of menu. research and invest from any website. with e*trade's browser trading. e*trade. opportunity is everywhere. ♪ ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight.
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>> that's it for us. the cnn special report, "videos gone viral 12" starts now. >> the following is a cnn special report. [ gasping ] >> oh, my god. this guy is on the freaking ledge. oh, no. [ screaming ] >> moments -- >> get that car out of the way! >> -- that terrify you. >> come on, baby. >> he's right there! >> moments that inspire you.