tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper CNN November 1, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST
we'll be covering all the day's media news every day. you can sign up at cnnmoney.com. that's all for this edition of "reliable sources." state of the union starts right now. republican revolt. the candidates lash out. >> these nasty and ridiculous questions. >> the bias that exists in the american media today. >> the american people don't trust the media. >> and the party vows payback. then, the governator. >> i'll be back. >> arnold schwarzenegger may be replacing donald trump on the apprentice, but he's raising cash for another candidate. and who may surprise you. and, the reluctant speaker embraces his new role. >> we've been too timid for too long around here. >> as his predecessor explains why paul ryan finally took the job. >> he figured out that god has another plan in mind for him. >> exactly right.
>> paul ryan and john boehner speak out. plus, the best political team on television will be here with insights from the campaign trail. hello, i'm dana bash here in washington, in for jake tapper, where the state of our union is hotly debated. wednesday's republican debate on cnbc is like a political bomb that keeps exploding. loud complaints by several candidates led the republican national committee to suspend the upcoming gop presidential debate with nbc. the parent company of cnbc. s the campaigns are going to get together tonight, to try to figure out their differences and see if they can come up with a plan among themselves for what to do for the next debates. one republican, at least, has his own ideas. >> let me lay out a radical proposition. how about if we say, from now on, if you have never voted in a republican primary in your life, you don't get to moderate a republican primary debate.
>> and joining me now is one of the republican candidates on the stage last week, and will continue to be on the stage, john kasich, the governor of ohio. governor, thank you so much for joining me. let's just start with what you heard from ted cruz there. the whole idea that in the future only republicans should moderate republican debates. >> you know, dana, i'm the governor of the seventh largest state in america. and, i have had so many questions thrown at me over the course of my time. of course, i was also in washington for a number of years, where, you know, there was a lot of chaos. you know, i'm not really focused on all this stuff. i mean, who should be -- you know, look, here's what i do know. i know that harry truman couldn't get elected president with explaining united states of america's health care plan in 30 seconds. i would prefer to do what you and i did when we were in new hampshire together and that's for you to ask me a lot of
questions over a, you know, a period of time where i could actually explain myself, instead of having to go so quickly to take on complex issues in short periods of time. >> i hear you. >> but you know, look, you know, it's too short. but it's what you deal with. i mean, i could sit around and, you know, criticize everybody. it's just not my style on this thing. i will criticize programs, and plans that i think are goofy. which i did in the last debate. you know, things like shipping 10 million or 11 million people out of this country, in some fantasy that we're going to get the mexican government to pay for the wall, or, abolishing medicare or medicaid or making a voluntary program. i mean, i don't want to attack people. but i am going to attack programs that i think hurt the republican party, hurt the conservative movement, and don't put us in a position where we could actually win an election and turn america around. >> i, i, i get all of that and i appreciate the fact that you want to have substantive discussions, and i enjoyed our
time together when we were in -- in ohio -- i mean in new hampshire. but you know, i want to talk specifically about the fact that the republican electorate is different from the way it had been in the past. and, you know, the red state, which is a very conservative blog, came after you and said, for all that people criticize jeb bush, kasich is far and away the candidate in this field who is just utterly clueless about the republican electorate as a whole. worse, to the extent that kasich does understand republicans, he dislikes them. what's your response to that, governor? >> well, first of all, you know, nobody's ever been elected president from the republican party that can't win ohio. and i don't really care about blogs. here's what i want to do. >> you don't care about blogs, let me just interrupt for one second. i get that you don't care about blogs. but i think that the reason why i brought that up is because, you know, the conservative electorate is -- is, for the most part, in charge of picking the republican presidential
nominee. >> yeah. >> and there's some who look at you and say, you know, he sounds sometimes more like a democrat than a republican. and they don't think that you're conservative enough. >> well, but dana, i balance budgets, i was the chief architect in washington. we created jobs, families were better. i came to ohio, we were $8 billion in the hole. now we're $2 billion in the black. we have lots of school choice. i've cut taxes by more than any sitting governor in america. republican governor. you know, families are better. wages are growing faster than national average. our credit is strong. what is there not to like? but, look, here's what my goal is. i not only want to cut taxes, and create jobs for families, but ship a lot of programs back home so that people will be empowered to begin to build our families and our communities, which is about the spirit of our country. now, if that's not conservative, you tell me what is. >> this week the bush campaign --
[ laughter ] >> it's so silly, dana. look, i have been a conservative all my lifetime. >> i'm not -- i'm not questioning your conservative credentials, it's -- >> but dana, here's the funny >> but dana, here's the funny thing, because i cautious - >> -- the republican primary process. >> yeah, but i'm doing fine. look at my -- look at what i'm doing in new hampshire. you've been up there with me. i'm doing well in mississippi. i'm headed there this week, and alabama. you know, we're gaining a lot of places. and you know what, though? this republican party has to make sure that people know that we care about them. i care about poor people. about people who live in the shadows. about those who were mentally ill or drug addicted. we've been on this -- these things for five years, and now states are beginning to say, my god, we got a drug problem in our country. what do we do? our people are advising other states about what to do. that is conservatism to give people a chance to live out their god-given potential. and because some people say they don't like my tone, or because i question abolishing medicare or medicaid, that that's not conservative.
listen, i have a plan to improve medicare and medicaid. i've done it in ohio. to say we're going to deport 10 million or 11 million people and divide families, that's just nutty. that's just not going to happen. and it will cost us in the fall because it will not stand -- it will not stand when the light shines. we have to be reformers, we have to send power back to people, we have to rebuild families and communities and balance our budget -- >> governor to get the nomination -- >> i can do all of that. >> -- you're probably going to have to, at least in the short term, do better than, i mean obviously all of the candidates. but in the short term do better than jeb bush and marco rubio who tend to sort of fight in your lane in the republican primary process. marco rubio has been criticized by jeb bush, especially in the last debate, for missing lots of votes in the senate. marco rubio says it's okay. you were in congress.
do you think that that is a problem? >> i don't know. there's too many big issues to talk about. what i'm more concerned about, what are we going to do to get the economy moving and get power out of washington. i don't consider that to be something i'm going to focus on at this point for the simple reason there's too many other things that are out there that have the potential to turn voters off that don't understand what conservativism and the republican party is all about. we have a plan from one of the people that's leading the field that would increase the national debt by $10 trillion. when you present that to people and say, we're going to put our children $10 trillion more in the hole, who's going to vote for that? that's not conservatism. it's cutting taxes and cutting government all at the same time to give us a balanced budget. >> we got to go. before we do, i just want to say
that you must feel a little bit like the cheshire cat in that the former governor of california took donald trump's job on "the apprentice," but he's out there campaigning for you, or at least raising money for you. real quick. >> here's the thing, i try not to speak for arnold. because if i do, i may be terminated. you'll have to get it from him. i love him. >> when we come back, meet the man for whom flex time means sleeping at his desk. paul ryan reveals his unusual living arrangements. if i want to go up...
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welcome back to "state of the union" i'm dana bash in for jake tapper. it was out with the old, in with the new on capitol hill this week as house speaker john boehner handed over the gavel to a man 20 years his junior, paul ryan. but is a fresh face enough to unite a deeply divided republican party? i want to start with talking about big ideas. you speak about the fact that that's what you want to achieve. big ideas, which you're kind of known for trying to reform medicare and medicaid, the tax code. >> right. >> immigration reform you talked about in the past. but this is not a place where you can get big ideas done. how do you change that? >> oh, i completely disagree with that. >> when was the last big idea -- >> this is the people's house. >> right. >> this is where people come to serve their country, and if you don't like the direction the country is headed then you have an obligation to the people of this country that sent you here -- >> that's true historically but in recent years it hasn't happened.
>> exactly right. that's why i said this speakership has to be different. i cannot pick up where john left off. that is why in discussing this with my house republican colleagues, we all concluded, jointly, that this has to be done differently. so that's why we're wiping the slate clean, it's a new day, and we're going to go offense on ideas. but to be a proposition party. an alternative party. that's where big ideas come from. we've been too timid for too long around here. and that is because we have not given people a sense of what we can do differently. how we can fix these problems. where we would go if given the chance. and that is what we have to do. >> how are you going to control the 40 or so members of that so-called freedom caucus in a way that john boehner couldn't? >> i think members are frustrated they did not have the opportunity to express their own views, on the floor. i think the legislative process has been too tightly controlled and has to be reopened up. i want members of congress representing their constituents having the ability in the
process to actually advance ideas. so i think that frustration is frustration that i shared, actually, as a house republican before becoming speaker. and i think that's what our members want to see us do more of. and that's why i think i'm in this position. >> do you think this means the end of the road for any hope of being president? >> oh, i don't -- hope of being president? >> meaning, meaning when you're speaker of the house, it's just, it's a lot harder to -- >> that's okay with me. that doesn't really bother me. if i really wanted to be president i would have run in this cycle for the presidency. i had the chance and opportunity to do so. i chose not to do that. so i'm perfectly happy, and content with this decision. >> let's just look forward now, right now. there are people who want to defund planned parenthood. you have a budget deal in place thanks to your predecessor john boehner. but you still have to fund the government by december 11th or it will shut down. will you -- >> this is what i mean when i say being an effective opposition party. i think being an effective opposition party means being honest with people up front about what it is you can and cannot achieve -- >> are you going to tell everybody sorry guys we can't defund planned parenthood?
>> i think we need to be clear about what we can and cannot achieve. and not set expectations we know we can't reach given the constraints of the constitution. but we also have to push issues where we can push issues. we also have to speak truth to power. we have a president that isn't willing to listen, that isn't going to sign lots of our bills into law. we have a senate that has a very difficult process when it comes to actually getting bills voted on. and so knowing that we have those constraints, we have to operate within those constraints -- >> what will you say to your caucus about putting a rider in there defunding planned parenthood? will it happen? >> i don't think planned parenthood should get a red cent from the taxpayer. i've always believed that. i voted that way before these disgusting videos came out. but i believe we need to do our oversight. we're just beginning to start a committee to investigate planned parenthood. that's important. so the special committee on planned parenthood, i think, should be in the driver's seat of overseeing this process. >> but what will you do -- >> let me just get to there, dana, hang on a second. >> okay. >> are we going to let congress work its will and have
amendments come to the process and have regular order where we have conference committees, yes. by not controlling the process, so tightly held here the speakership, by letting it go forward i don't know what the outcome's going to be -- >> you told members of the freedom caucus that you were not going to touch immigration reform, something that you worked really hard on. you went out and campaigned with one of the most liberal democrats in congress talking about it. do you see any future for actually getting that done? and why did you make that promise if you want to -- >> because this president tried to write the law himself. this president went beyond his separation of powers to try and write the law. presidents don't write laws. congress writes laws. this president tried to go around congress to unilaterally write immigration law so specifically on this issue you cannot trust this president on this issue so why would we want to pass legislation on a very divisive issue with a president we can't trust on this issue. >> you sparked a national debate when you said one of the reasons you didn't want to take this job is because of your work/family balance. i have to say when i was
reporting on that, i got more response on twitter, on facebook, from, you know, friends and family all over the country, saying, you know, wow this is interesting that he's talking about this. but, what's he going to do about it? >> i don't think that that sticking up for being a person with balance in your life, for wanting to spend your weekends in your home with your family, which i work with constituents, and my family throughout the weekends, i don't think that's -- i don't think that means, therefore, you should sign up for some -- >> and i completely get that. but i think it's more of the fact that women in particular heard you talking like this, and said, wow, he gets it. maybe he can do something about it. and i hear you're saying unfunded mandate. but there are proposals out there to make it work in a way that it's not unfunded. >> well, yeah, flex time. we've had some pretty good legislation on flex time so that, and that's a bill i think is a great idea. so, martha roby has legislation on giving -- the flex time legislation that martha roby has proposed is to give families
more flexibility in their hours. >> it's more of a question of since you are a next generation, you understand how hard it is, because most families, many families, you have two parents working, to bring the, the, the government policies, and laws, up to date with modern america. >> that's why i would recommend take a look at the roby flex time bill. >> your office is also your apartment, your bed, your -- the place that you live. >> everybody brings this up. >> you're in the speaker now. you're really going to still sleep in your office? >> yeah, i'm just a normal guy. >> yeah but normal guys don't sleep in their offices. >> so i live in janesville, wisconsin. i commute back and forth every week. i just work here. i don't live here. so, i get up very early in the morning. i work out, i work until about 11:30 at night. i go to bed. and i do the same thing the next day. it actually makes me more efficient. i can actually get more work done. by sleeping on a cot in my office. i've been doing it for at least a decade and i'm going to keep doing it. >> okay. thank you so much. >> thanks, dana.
>> appreciate it, mr. speaker. >> thanks, dana. >> so who twisted paul ryan's arm enough to get him to take the new job? the man he replaced, outgoing speaker john boehner, who says he enlisted a higher power to make it happen. his secret weapon next. ♪ while you're watching this, i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security.
welcome back to "state of the union" i'm dana bash. there were, as you might expect, tears as john boehner said good-bye to congress after 25 years. i sat down for an exclusive interview with the now-former speaker of the house on his very last day in office. let's talk about paul ryan. to say he was reluctant is an understatement. he flat-out said he did not want this job over and over again. >> he told me the same thing. >> you called him, you successfully tried to convince him to run. how did you do it? what did you say to him?
>> well, first i laid every ounce of catholic guilt i could on him. and that -- >> how did that go? lay some catholic guilt on me. i want to know what that feels like. >> you have no choice. this isn't about what you want to do. this is about what god wants you to do. and god's told me -- >> you pulled the god card, huh? >> oh, i pulled it all out. listen, paul was the right guy. at the right time. i know he knew he didn't want to do it. he kept telling me he didn't want to do it. but, it was obvious to me that he was the right person for the job. and i had to do everything i could to convince him. >> now you know full well that doing this job, might make it hard to go on to other office, namely the white house, because you get pretty messy -- >> i think he got over that. >> so do you think it's still possible for him to be president? >> i'm not sure that -- i think he would have liked to have been president. but i think he's figured out that god has another plan in mind for him and it's to be speaker of the house. >> what is the one thing with
all of your experience here, the good, the bad and the ugly, that you want him to keep in mind? >> be open. be transparent, and be decisive. people have no place else to go. and when you're the speaker and you're the leader you've got to make decisions. and then you have to live with the consequences. tough part of the job. >> the budget deal that you struck just this week calls for an increase of $80 billion in federal spending over two years in exchange for a variety of cuts. ted cruz said it's a complete and utter surrender, john boehner's golden parachute will certainly cement his legacy but it is a slap in the face to conservatives. >> that's just total nonsense. this is real entitlement reform in this agreement. we've got a big group of members who need more money for our national defense. and, all the increases in spending are offset with spending reductions elsewhere in the government.
>> to get this agreement done, you had secret talks with the president. that must not have been easy to do with the president of the united states, because you've had some troubled negotiations in the past. >> we have. but we have a good relationship. you know, today it's about doing the best we can, considering those things on behalf of the american people. and so, we had long conversations. some were better than others. the one yesterday was a lot better than the one last week. >> what was the one last week? >> it was just one of those conversations. that just had to happen. >> you made pretty clear that in your heart of hearts, you've wanted to get immigration reform done. that has to be a regret that that didn't happen. >> well, it is. because, reform in our immigration system, securing our borders, would be good for america. but unfortunately the president just kept poisoning the well, poisoning the well. to the point where it was impossible to put it on the floor of the house. >> why was it the president and
not the right flank of your own caucus? >> well, probably some blame there, as well. but, we could have dealt with that. >> what's going to be the best thing about being a civilian? >> i get to walk at the starbucks and back by myself. i get to walk to pete's diner and back, by myself. >> by yourself meaning without your security? >> exactly. i can't wait. i can't wait. >> the other thing i wanted to ask you about was something that i was sort of shocked about, is that you do yoga? >> yeah. i started -- >> i've known you for a long time. i'm having trouble with this image. >> i started july of last year. i was in a yoga class with paul ryan and some others. >> really? >> yeah. >> for a little while. >> does it center you also? or is it more about stretching? >> it's more about stretching. >> i get that. >> i'm not trying to be a yogi here. i just do some yoga. >> your office released a series of photos, i'm not sure if you saw them, from your time as
speaker. >> yeah? >> and there's one that really, to me, looked like the quintessential boehner scene. it's this. >> yeah. that looks like me. >> looking at the view -- >> looking at the view, and pondering a little bit. listen, it's been a great -- >> do you miss that most, do you think? >> oh, i'll miss the people around here most. you know, we get to do important things. we get to put our fingerprints on the direction of the country. fingerprints on history. but at the end of the day, it's the people you meet that make this job so rewarding. >> mr. speaker, thank you so much. >> oh, thank you. >> good luck with everything. >> thank you. and coming up, jeb bush's secret strategy memo, exposed. what it reveals about the campaign's plans to take down marco rubio.
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the debate over the debates has reached a boiling point and tonight republican candidates or at least their campaigns are going to meet to air their grievances and potentially plot an overthrow. with me now republican strategist ben ginsburg who will facilitate at that meeting, congresswoman marsha blackburn, republican of tennessee, keith ellison, democrat of minnesota and neera tanden, president of the center for american progress. thank you all for being here. appreciate it, especially morning after halloween. ben, i got to start with you, later today you're going to be in the super secret place and you're going to be talking to all the campaigns and trying to help them figure out how to deal with their -- their, the fact that they're upset about the debates.
what are you going to tell them? >> well, i'm going to tell them you need to figure out what to do. there have been problems with the first three debates. and to see what the campaigns want to do. but it's their meeting and their agenda and their debates. >> for people who don't understand because it's a little bit kind of inside baseball but it's really boiled over, historically, at least the past couple of election cycles, the campaigns have all kind of come together and helped organize who gets the debates. this year the republican national committee took over. >> yes. >> so are you going to recommend that the candidates take it back? >> well, i'm not -- i will not be in the position of making recommendations. but rather, listening to the campaigns. but, i was lucky enough to be able to negotiate for three of the four last cycles. and there are some lessons to be learned from those. and procedures to take. >> for example? >> which i'll talk to them. as you mentioned in past cycles it was the campaigns themselves who talked to the sponsors.
it's an institutional matter if you issue a schedule beforehand and promise debates to news media organizations you've lost some leverage. so that loss of leverage is something that i -- the campaigns want to talk about. we'll talk about. >> and congresswoman the other republican here, you heard senator cruz say that, well only republicans should moderate republican debates. i mean, just on its face, so every reporter is supposed to show their voter registration? i think most reporters are not affiliated with a political campaign or a -- >> well i found it so interesting. i think reince was correct in sending the letter to nbc. that debate was over the top. but there again you look at it dana and people just want answers to questions. they want to see how these candidates react with one another. they want to see how they respond under pressure. i think that they just need to realize the media is not going to be with them. they need to go over the top, talk directly to the american people, reconstruct their answers, and just kind of get over it and move on.
>> you're shaking your head. >> the media is not with anybody. the fact is -- >> oh -- >> come on. >> the media -- >> the media is neutral. >> no. >> and i think that it's the conservative tactic to accuse the media of being liberal in hopes that they will overcompensate and be conservative. >> oh, that's hard -- >> hold on, can i -- >> this is not fox news -- >> can i just say that you are a supporter of hillary clinton. i'm guessing hillary clinton would not say that the media are conservative the way that she has had -- >> i mean hillary has been attacked by a lot of media over the years. so, you know, i just think it's interesting that people want to be leaders of the free world, say they can take on putin, say they can take on these various bullies around the world and then are really concerned about the political affiliations of the debate questioners. >> i want to move -- i want to move -- i want to move on to the actual contest and not talk about the media for the whole time. it's been a really tough week for jeb bush. marco rubio, i think, even he
admits now, got the better of him in the debate last week. this past week. on friday, we learned that a very prominent billionaire who can raise a lot of money went and backed marco rubio. i spoke with bush right after the cnbc debate. here's what he said. >> -- ana navarro just said on our air that she's feeling glum tonight because of the performance that you had and the performance that marco -- >> i'm running for president of the united states. >> how do you win them back? >> i'm running with heart. i'm not a performer. if they're looking for entertainer in chief, i'm probably not the guy. >> hmm. >> ben, i'm going to throw it to you. is jeb bush toast? >> no, he's not toast. but an essential part of the debates, to be able to get to your substantive policies, is to be able to master the performance arts of the debates. so governor bush needs to do that. aside from that there's another debate on november 10th. or at least one scheduled. and he'll have a chance to do it again.
so we ought not get too wrapped up in precisely what happens here. >> but beyond the debate. just in terms of the campaign, look he was supposed to be the front-runner. he was supposed to have the money. he was supposed to be the juggernaut, and he's not. >> a lot of it is about timing. >> -- exceed expectations in iowa and new hampshire. they've done a terrific job of setting the expectations game -- >> a lot of it is about timing, though. >> he has a content problem. he's not talking about anything that animates the american people. he's failed on immigration reform. he's backed off on so many critical things. he's not a problem solver and it's showing and he's losing. >> well, people have natural constituencies, and issues that they are known for and bush has a problem in addition to kind of being the guy in the middle on all of that, it is about timing. he is an establishment republican, this is an outsider year. the nominee is going to be an outsider. it is not going to be the establishment. >> so it won't be marco rubio? >> i don't think marco is considered an establishment sort of guy. i think he's come here and he's
fought through the senate. ted cruz has fought through the senate. carson and trump. are outsiders. >> he's a republican who came in in 2010 -- >> well, he came in on the tea party wave but i -- >> a big idea guy. and that's what the american people want. big ideas. >> -- was appealing to that right wing base. i think he's not a -- he's not a mainstream republican at all. >> neera, i just want to say that i have heard from a lot of democrats, privately, who say that they are most concerned about marco rubio, in a head-to-head with hillary clinton. for lots of reasons but mostly just the generational. it's barack obama all over again. >> i think that that could really play both ways. i think immigration is a great issue. and in a moment where people are yearning for authentic candidates who really say what they believe, this is a challenge for marco rubio. he had a position where he was a leader on immigration reform, working across the aisle, thinking it was going to help him, probably, win an election. but then the republican base moved very far right and he took the 180 degree position from
where he was. so i think that's a real challenge for him. i think republican voters may be concerned about that level of inauthenticity at a time when -- >> i think he's very authentic. >> mrs. clinton has taken her detour from where she was -- >> people like authenticity -- >> he's not a flip-flopper. >> no, he is not a flip-flopper. >> he sure is. >> what he has said is he realizes you have to do this incrementally and you have to work -- >> congressman do you think he can get the nomination with his immigration -- >> i think that marco rubio could get the nomination, just as it could be trump, or carson or cruz -- >> despite his position on immigration? >> because he has said, look, you need to do this, in a thoughtful way, and you need to come -- he's where the house has been for ten years. >> he might be -- >> secure the border -- >> i'm going to ask you -- >> work through these issues. >> hold your thoughts because we actually have a lot more to talk about on the democratic side. >> all right. >> and we're going to talk about that with regard to hillary clinton. she was interrupted onstage by protesters from black lives matter.
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disrupted by a group of protesters from black lives matter. joining me now again is our panel, and i want to start with you, congressman. you know, the black lives matter movement has gained such potency in the democratic primary process. there are conversations with bernie sanders, really do seem the guy that you've endorsed. really do seem to have made a difference in his policies. what do you think about their tactics like this? doing what they did? >> you know, when some white pastors wrote martin luther king when he was in the birmingham jail and said we like your -- we like your goals but we don't like your tactics, he wrote back to them a document that's known as the letter for birmingham jail. >> true. >> in which he said to them, you know, of course you don't like my tactics, of course it would be nice if this was so pristine and all comfortable. but it's -- change happens in a disruptive way. you know i talked to these young people last night on the telephone. one of them was from minneapolis. >> people who were at this
hillary clinton event? >> yes, absolutely. and they told me they're not against hillary. and they're certainly not against bernie sanders. but they expect that these folks are going to listen to them. but it's hard to break into the conversation. and it's hard to get beyond platitudes. and they want a plan, they want meaningful change. when they saw that young woman get flipped in that chair, when they saw sandra bland get yanked out of the car, they feel that. i feel that. and i'm telling you that people -- it's an urgent moment and they don't feel that they can afford to play by the traditional rules. they've got to be heard. >> and they are making a difference. >> they are making a difference with their tactics. they are being heard. >> i think the conversation needs to be all lives matter. whether it's black lives, or or infant lives. >> i don't think you understand. >> look at what happened with cms putting out the medicare rule on friday afternoon that they couldn't get it in the bill in 2009, and now they're going to pay physicians for counseling
elderly on end of life. >> when you say all lives matter, you are -- you are ignoring years -- centuries of, of, of institutionalized american racism. you have to -- you cannot ignore the fact that in your own state, i mean, it was segregation -- >> all lives matter. >> of course they do. >> infant lives, blue lives, white lives, all lives matter. >> black lives matter, too. >> it is literally, i think the problem with this is it's like going to a breast cancer rally and saying all cancers matter. it's like you're ignoring the reality that african-americans are disproportionately, a lot of people are affected by the police, but african-americans have been disproportionally affected by police brutality. and we have to address that problem. and it's -- >> you think that hillary clinton is, and really all of the democratic candidates, are getting it now? >> yes. and absolutely hillary rolled out some policies, she'll be continuing to do that, and truthfully what i find distressing is that this is an issue just for democrats.
both democrats and republicans should talk about this. >> absolutely right. >> if you want to lead the whole country you have to talk to the whole country. and i hope that we will have less polarizing debate in the republican party about these issues. >> should the black vote just be left to democrats? or should republicans -- >> i think marsha is right. i think this is about all lives matter. in the context of all lives matter, black lives matter, too. and so, the republican candidates will end up discussing that in the context of the debate. if it becomes highly politicized, in other words this is a democratic movement, to beat up on republicans, then the effectiveness and the change that you want is going to fade away, and it will -- >> but right now they're -- >> yeah they're not going to republicans. i think we should go to all presidential candidates. >> but i'm actually -- >> i'm -- i think it's important that people protest, raise these issues. the level of consciousness. there are now republicans of goodwill who are talking about criminal justice reform. the koch brothers are now
recognizing they're far beyond -- >> we've got to go to break. >> crime is a problem. yes. but when you look at all lives matter, we need to talk about how we protect life and recognize the sanctity of life in this country. >> we're going to have to end it there. fascinating discussion to all of you. thank you so much for coming in. after the break, was the 2000 presidential election rigged? candidates -- candid new interviews 15 years later with the insiders who led the florida recount. if i want to go up...
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big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.
cliff-hanger that featured george w. bush, al gore, and the infamous hanging chad. 15 years after the recount that divided the nation, cnn's gloria borger looks back at what happened inside the smoke-filled rooms, and the supreme court. >> reporter: a well respected tallahassee lobbyist with ties to jeb bush and a long history in republican politics, max deponovich became katherine harris' brain. >> you won't have any friends when this is over. and we're going to be loathed by the media for the rest of our lives and through the lives of our grandchildren. that's not what's important here today. we're going to elect the president of the united states. forget all the rest of that stuff. >> reporter: as americans watched the partisans duke it out daily on live tv, behind the scenes, mac was plotting the republican path to victory. >> i called the senior staff together and i said we're not
going to break any laws, but i want you to forget about the intended loss, we're going to bring this election in for a landing and we're going to fight them tooth and nail, house to house, hand to hand and we were going to hold florida unless they sent in federal troops. >> reporter: he knew exactly what he had to do. stop recounting votes, and preserve bush's election night lead, no matter how small. >> we actually believe the result was right, george bush has won this election, and it is our job to make it so. and we're going to rapidly as possible close off any option, any path that could be followed, that produces any result other than that one. people are going to watch this and be appalled, oh, my god the corrupt bastards, they stole the election. no, we won the election. >> i mean, wow. gloria borger joins me now. the candor there. >> right.
>> it's just amazing the way you pulled that out of him. >> here's the thing, in everyone we interviewed it kind of helps to have 15 years. we live in the spin zone, right? we cover politics day to day. when you have that kind of a distance, you talk to democrats about what happened during recount, they were astonishingly candid with me about the mistakes that they believe they made during recount. and republicans, including mac, james baker who ran the whole recount strategy, talked about their clear message, their clear game plan, why they won, and what they thought team gore did wrong. so, with a little bit of reflection, and a lot of time, people are, believe it or not, honest, dana. right? and that's kind of something we're not used to as we cover day-to-day politics. >> honest and i bet you the democrats are saying, oh, is there like a statute of limitations after hearing what you just heard? >> right. and the democrats say, one of them said to me, you know what? we brought a knife to a gun fight. >> gloria, thank you so much. can't wait to see it.
you can watch the full story of the 2000 election tomorrow night 9:00 p.m. right here on cnn. do not miss it. i'm dana bash in washington. fareed zakaria gps starts right now. this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have an important show for you today starting with syria. for years president obama has been insistent, emphatic. >> i will not put american boots on the ground in syria. >> but now up to 50 special force troop will go. why the change in policy? i will explore that with richard haas. the u.s. defense secretary says that president obama is considering direct action on the ground there. we will take you inside the administration's thinking on