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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  December 10, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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remember, follow me on twitter. be sure to join us right here tomorrow in "the situation room." thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. the fbi dive team searching in the san bernardino lake looking for a crucial piece of evidence. plus, donald trump is live in this hour as a new poll shows surprising support for his ban on muslim. and ted cruz, amazing support tonight. a closer look at this hour on who is ted cruz. could he beat donald trump? let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, the breaking news, divers hunting for evidence that the san bernardino terrorists may have thrown in the lake before they massacred
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14 people. the fbi hiking a few miles north of the shooting. moments ago, the fbi holding a press conference at the lake. >> so the reason we're here searching this lake today is because we did have a lead that indicated that the subjects came in to this area. we have now put a dive team in to the lake as a logical part of covering that lead. >> also today, the fbi linking the terrorist syed farook to a terrorist in riverside, california. a new poll shows more americans are worried about a terrorist attack now more than ever. kyung lah is "outfront." what are they searching for in that lake? >> reporter: a law enforcement official says what they are looking for are items that were missing in the couple's home.
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the couple who did this entire rampage. and one of those missing items is a hard drive. they would not confirm that at the news conference held a short time ago. but divers are still in the water right now. a painstaking search. the latest development in an ever expanding investigation. the san bernardino terror web is expanding. farook is now being linked to one of four men arrested in a terror ring in 2012. three years ago, the fbi descended on this house located just mile ace way from san bernardino. among the four men arrested and eventually convicted, sahil, a naturaliz naturalized citizen born in afghanistan.
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the fbi complaints, including violent video messages from anwar al awlaki. they were arrested days before they were set to fly to afghanistan and target military bases. farook and kabir were in the same social circle. but authorities did not know of farook until the shooting last week. marquez told investigators spooked by the arrests but was this a terror network or just a group of men connected by friendship and a twisted desire for violence? >> we are working very hard to understand exactly their association and the source of their inspiration. we're also working very hard to understand whether there was anybody else involved with assisting them, with supporting
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th them, with equipping them. >> reporter: the fbi says farook and malik chatted of jihad online before meeting in person, radicalized before their marriage and before she would enter the united states last year. now back here live at the lake where the fbi has divers still in the water. you can see that the top half of him, they are still in the process of going through the information. they are going to be here until they lose light. when they lose light, they will be back at daybreak tomorrow. erin? >> kyung lah, thank you very much. evan perez is "outfront" in washington. we know malik and farook were radicalized before they even
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knew each other. malik was asked questions but there didn't seem to be any red flags? >> there were no red flags. she was interviewed in islamabad and a day later she was able to get this k-1 visa and these questions are aimed at ensuring someone isn't committing marriage fraud or trying to immigrate here under false pretenses. but really the questions entail whether you know the person that you're going to marry. so they are personal questions about how long have you known him, things that would probably give the counselor officer, a reason to believe that perhaps you're not who you say you are. >> it's pretty shocking that they wouldn't have looked at the background. obviously the religious radicalization. let's be blunt here. was she asked the same questions she would have been asked if she was from, let's just say, a country like canada or was she given different questions about religion because she was from pakistan? >> no religious questions
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whatsoever and pretty much that's the way it is. the questions do vary a little bit based on region. and we do know that because pakistan is one of the countries where the u.s. is worried about the presence of islamic extremists, there's additional screening done in the background. again, that has not shown up in this personal interview, this face-to-face interview in islamabad. >> there would have been no questions about a religion? >> there would have been no questions about a religion. that's one of the things that they are reviewing, whether or not there's some way to figure out whether somebody has jihadi leanings. we know that they are now they are checking people's facebook and social media postings to make sure that they capture anything like that. >> evan perez, thank you. >> thanks. and the chairman of the house foreign committee on foreign affairs, republican congressman ed royce is joining me now. chairman, good to have you with me. she went in for an interview,
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was approved within a day, wasn't asked a single question about religion. in fact, he's saying that people entering the united states are not asked about religion, even if they are coming home pakistan, which is a home to many islamic extremists. >> radical extremist ideology is taught and we've tried for many years to get these particular institutions closed. i brought it up on three separate trips in pakistan in order to try to close down those schools that teach this kind of extremism that make it is so easy to recruit them into jihad. i've raised this issue with the fbi. we should be considering that background and looking into the
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schooling because if someone has got that kind of foundation and it wouldn't just be in pakistan. it's wherever these particular deal bendy deals exist, whether it's in nigeria, north africa, central asia or saudi arabia. >> what would be the arreason tt they don't ask about religion? should they have in this case? >> remember, we're talking about a specific type of school that is teaching an ideology that is very confrontational and exclusive and doesn't make room for other -- for tolerance for other religions. >> she went to a very conservative school. would it have been on that list that you're talking about? >> that is what i've also asked the fbi to check on. because if we can set a certain standard here where we're beginning to look at the educational foundation for people, graduating out of schools in the middle east or
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elsewhere where they are teaching these kinds of confrontational viewpoint, then i think ignoring that on the interviews, now, remember, we've done two other things that i think have helped. one is pass legislation through the house to stop those who automatically might come in to the country with the syrian problem that we don't have ready access to records. we set a high bar now and, second, to stop the visa waiver program with respect to those that have visited syria. i'm the co-author of one of those bills. >> i know you are. bottom line, it doesn't sound like you have a problem with -- unless she went to one of those schools, you don't have a problem that someone coming from pakistan would not be asked specific questions that might lead to their beliefs? >> we should ask questions in order to try to identify are
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they religious extremists, which includes a survey of trying to figure out if they have a radical ideology and trying to access information on the internet that would show their position as well as what -- where they have graduated from. my anger is over the fact that for years i've been trying to get specific schools closed and we have not been able to get the civilian government to stand up to the religious extremists. >> in pakistan there was no check of her background. she had posted talking about jihad and attacks before she even went to that appointment. her husband had ties to terrorists back in 2012. still, neither of the shooters were on law enforcement's radar. the question is, was this an intelligence failure or is it
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simply impossible to catch? because there's too many people posting things on social media so it's inevitable that people like this are going to get into the country? >> it was an intelligence failure. yes, it was. one of the reasons that we'd like to make certain that the visa waiver system has changed, i was in london to talk to their government about some of the problems that they've had. they are overwhelmed. scotland yard is overwhelmed, just as the french are over w l overwhelmed on the sheer numbers that they have in society that are being radicalized. isis is not a winning strategy here. it has to be defeated because they are recruiting from within these societies here now. it will make it harder. yes, you're right on your point, we've got to reform our process in tems of those going through this visa program.
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>> are all those gop supporters wrong? >> in terms of the two bills we've passed through the house, that will be affected. the reforms that we make is beginning to check on people that have been radicalized. those are the constitutional steps that we can and will take in order to help get a handle here on the radicalization that's been going on. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time, as always. donald trump live taking questions. obviously everyone wants to know what he's going to be asked and what he will answer on this muslim ban. plus, ted cruz, who is he? an inside look at who is nipping at his heels in the polls. and trump is running with a bald eagle. working on my feet all day gave me pain here.
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download the free app. if you don't use it, wallapop it. (horse whinny) you're looking at live pictures out of new hampshire. donald trump is going to hold a campaign rally in portsmouth. there is criticism from other world leaders about his plan to ban muslims from the united states. a new poll shows that more republicans agree with donald trump than don't. sara murray is live at that rally. as we get ready for donald trump to take the stand and he may take questions, this could be a very, very interesting evening. is the campaign pushing this poll? >> reporter: i think it's certainly the reason that donald trump was saying this in the first place. the campaign is speaking to core conservatives concerned about muslims coming to the u.s. and concerned that the u.s. doesn't
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have the ability to weed out radical islamic terrorists. when you look at the broader public, the general public, only 5% think his plan is a good idea and we're seeing this play out at this event. on either side of the street, there are people who are completely on board with this and a large group of protester and they think it runs counter to anything that the country is founded on. >> how are they reacting? are they angry? are they turning away from him? are they standing by him on this news? >> reporter: you know, it's amazing. even the trump supporters i spoke to who didn't agree with him on every point still said they understood where he was coming from and appreciated him bringing up this issue. take a listen to what one of them had to say to me earlier. >> statue of liberty said
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yearning to be free. it didn't say bring in radical terrorists planning to kill us. until we can sort that out, i believe we should chose our borders. we were here first. we need to do some internal repairs and then we can have our country back. >> reporter: and this is the amazing thing, erin. when you talk to his supporters, there are a number of people who agree with him who think this is a great proposal and even the ones who don't really think that he's on to something and proposing something to try to deal with this issue and project an aura of strength missing from president barack obama. >> sara murray, thank you so much. we're going to be going there live as that starts. "outfront" now, the former political director for the reagan white house jeffrey lord and rick wilson.
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there's the good news, if that's the right word for donald trump. 57% of all americans say the ban is the wrong idea. so the question from this is really simple. will this hurt him in the general election if he's the nominee? >> i don't think so. i'll tell you what, this is relatively new and in terms of the length of time that he's had this out there. this is not about religion. this is about national security. and to be perfectly candid -- and i'm not speaking here for donald trump, but in seeing what has gone on here lately in san bernardino, i'm beginning to think that we should do -- shut the entire legal system down. people say it discriminates against muslims. fine. let's do it with everybody. halt the whole system and find out what is wrong. you just had a story telling us about a woman that came in here and none of this was detected and it's an intelligence
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failure. i also would say it's an immigration failure. we cannot have people coming into this country who are going to do what was just done in san bernardino. 14 people are dead. this is unacceptable and we need to, i'm beginning to think, stop the whole process, figure out what is wrong and start it up again. >> so rick, let's look at the numbers again slightly differently in this poll. in the poll, 40% of americans say donald trump is telling it like it is. 37% say his language is a problem but he's still raising important issues. okay, so if you add those numbers together, you get 77% versus 16 who he says are insulting. can you really ignore that? >> listen, my problem with the trump immigration ban is that it would do nothing -- it would have done nothing to stop the san bernardino attack. this guy was radicalized before his wife arrived and he was an american citizen. i think this distracts us from doing what we need to do to
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address islamic radicalism and intelligence, both foreign and domestic and in actually pursing and targeting these people that are in imminent danger. no one disagrees with the fact that we have a global threat from islamic terrorism but the issue is substantive and doesn't address the more pressing threat of a guy like syed farook who was born in illinois. it's a large, splashy idea but it's not a serious program of counterterrorism. >> jeff, he has an interesting point, right? the fbi director recently said he's worried about the number of americans going to fight isis aren't higher because they are choosing to stay in the united states to carry out an attack rather than never trying to go to syria. this would not address any of those individuals. >> right. i do think we've got two halves
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of the larger problem. rick is right in the sense that it doesn't address that. what he's trying to do is move the issue forward here on the issue of who is coming in to the country. but it is quite right to say that we do have a problem here in this country of native-born americans signing up for isis. this is a problem and we are going to have to have a separate conversation about how to deal with that. >> rick wilson, the question is, would you, as someone who has not been supporting donald trump, support him if he gets a nod for the nomination? lindsey graham has said he would not support donald trump in any way, shape or form. let me play how he put it and get your reaction. >> quit threatening us. i'd rather lose without him than try to win with him if he keeps doing what he's doing. there's no shame in losing an election. the same comes when you lose
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your honor. >> the key is i would rather lose without him than with him. donald trump is speaking and we will listen in. bottom line, i would rather lose with him than try to win with him. what do you say? >> unlike donald trump, i never voted for hillary clinton or barack obama. my vote on this is not really a relevant factor at this point. the bottom line is, trump will hand this nomination to hillary clinton. alienation and division he's causing across the country, he's going to have a fervent part of the election. >> s.e. cupp said she'd rather lose. would you go that far? >> i think we're reaching a
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point where it's difficult to see a worse option than hillary clinton. however, donald trump's increasing tenor of what he's proposing is a separate kind of horror. hillary clinton present as nightmare scenario. i think that trump right now, i don't see a scenario where trump wins the general election because of the degree to which he's going to cause a fundamental reshaping of the entire electorate and end up with a fraction of the republican party being fervent trump supporters as his policies become more and more unconstitutional, nonlimited values and principles.
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he's willing to shred the religious liberty. it's a remarkable scenario. >> well, i appreciate both of you taking the time. donald trump is speaking live. we are monitoring this to see when he addresses this issue. as i said, he may be take questions, which could be a crucial moment. also, a major endorsement for ted cruz. is he a bigger headache for the republican party than donald trump? and trump may no longer be welcome in muslim countries. you can't predict... the market. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your investments through good times and bad. for over 75 years, our clients have relied on us to bring our best thinking to their investments
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donald trump is speaking live in portsmouth, new hampshire, talking about this country is too politically correct. let's listen in. >> wait a minute. he wrote about osama. what happened is i would see this guy on television. he was very threatening. i said, you better watch that guy. that guy is a bad guy. i wrote about it in my book and some of the commentators actually said, trump wrote about osama bin laden before the world trade center came down. i got a lot of credit for it.
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big deal. i don't want credit. i want to have this safe, great country. [ applause ] so -- so, normally i wouldn't make this trip but i had to make it because of my love and respect for police and law enforcement and i'll come back here in a couple of minutes and can you imagine if they don't vote positively again? look at all of the press. that will be headlines, trump rejected. can you believe -- i don't know. i feel confident. we're going to be back in a couple of minutes. i guess your board is voting. we'll be back in a few minutes. i want to thank you all. we love you. we'll be back in a couple of minutes. thank you. [cheers and applause ] >> donald trump is in
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portsmouth, new hampshire. jeff lord is with me along with rick wilson, republican strategist. okay. let me put the question to you, jeff. he's coming out and saying that we can't be so politically correct. we can't afford to be so politically correct, in his words, that the woman in the terrorist shooting in san bernardino got in on a visa and should have gone through more questions. i think it's fair to say it was an intelligence failure. the question is, was it because they were too politically correct, they did not ask her about her religion. is that an issue of political correctness? >> i'm sure it is. i have a book on donald trump coming out in january and i've looked at this very issue. there were people in the united states army who said that the u.s. army were so politically correct that they refused to identify major nidal hasan as what he was, a potential
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terrorist, because of political correctness, that he went on to kill 14 people at ft. hood. so clearly this is a problem. erin, if i could say one other thing here that rick was talking about, whether donald trump should be voted for if he's the nominee. rush limbaugh was having a great conversation today about this suggesting that the divide is so wide here between the base of the party and elites of the party that they have no idea how to handle this. they are totally out of touch with the base of the party and i think the kind of audience you're seeing there tonight gets it. donald trump is part of the same phenomenon that rush limbaugh -- he hasn't endorsed it but it's part of the same phenomenon here. we need to pay attention to it and not scoff at it. >> let me play one more thing that donald trump said speaking to voters in new hampshire. here he is. >> so many people knew that
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those two in california were up to no good. they saw bombs sitting on the floor. they had one guy who bought the guns. they had another person that said, oh, i didn't want to report them because i didn't want to go racial profiling. oh, okay. sees pipe bombs sitting all over the place and didn't want to racially profile. i mean, how stupid do they think we are? >> rick, what do you say to that? >> there is no excuse for the atrophy of our law enforcement and intelligent forces under barack obama about how we treat terrorism. just saying i'm not pc does not prescribe a pathway that's going to give us a revitalized sense of urgency in the intelligent
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services and in the fbi and state and local law enforcement. those things are going to have to come from someone with a serious program that is thought out, it's granular and the fact of the matter is, the thing we know about the donald trump show is that in a day or two from now, there will be a new, outrageous crazy comment he'll make to keep you guys interested for another three or four days and this is a guy who has a very quick -- it's like wasabi mustard. it's hot for a second and it's gone. there won't be a lot of backing up and filling in. there won't be a policy behind it and the fact of the matter is, once again, the centerpiece of the policy is we're not politically correct. that's not a substitute. it actually addresses the threat. >> all right. thanks very much to both of you. i appreciate it. tonight, donald trump may
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still be the republican front-runner and ted cruz is riding a wave of momentum in the race for 2016. a new poll out today, the latest in a series to show the senator surging to second place with voters nationwide. in iowa, now throwing his weight behind cruz. >> we have been going all in for senator ted cruz. we have found him as a man of deep character. a man that we can fully trust. who has a consistency of convictions, who loves his god, his spouse and who loves his family. we believe he can be the nominee to take on and defeat hillary clinton and the leftist agenda. >> sunlen serfaty is "outfront." how significant is that? >> no doubt it will be a boost for ted cruz but the question is how big of a boost and jump will he get from this? i think the biggest significance
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is what he can do for his campaign, especially in the short term in iowa. very influential among christian evangelicals and so his endorsement will certainly go a long way with this key voting booth. they make up 60% of the voters in iowa. that will certainly go a long way but has a potential to give him a burst of momentum. we saw ted cruz today responding to this endorsement and him make specific mention of that. also, really notably calling on conservatives saying it's time to coalesce around him at this moment. >> sunlen, thank you very much. and cruz's ride to the top has been a long time in the making. ed lavandera is "outfront" with that. >> i cannot wait to stand on the debate stage with hillary clinton. >> reporter: a confident ted cruz finds himself in second place in the latest national
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polls. the texas senator is running second to front-runner donald trump. it's a long way from cruz's controversial days on the senate floor. >> i do not like them sam i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. >> reporter: cruz read dr. seuss as the federal government barrelled towards a shutdown. >> i would not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs a he ham, i do not like them, sam i am. >> reporter: some see cruz as a conservative values while others see him disa disruptive political wacko bird. >> make me a proud wacko bird. >> his father was a pastor and the 76-year-old has been criticized for his controversial comments about president obama's citizenship. ted cruz is the son of a cuban
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and he argued nine cases before the u.s. supreme court and was elected to the and on the debate team. >> when he said cruz used his fiery speaking skills to become one of the top debaters in the country. >> when ted took a stand and wanted to advocate for it, he could advocate for it very, very strongly and that rubbed people sometimes the wrong way even then. >> cruz went on to har var law school where alan dershowitz said he stood out as one of his brightest students in his 50 years of teaching. >> he came in with his right right hand raised. he was a terrific student to have in class because he had
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contrarian views. >> he was not the most popular student in the class. >> ted is a feather wrestler. he did that as a student. he's confrontational because he's very principled and very ambitious at the same time. >> >> reporter: that landed him a job on the 2000 presidential campaign where he met his wife heidi. they are raising their two daughters in houston with hopes of moving to washington. surging in polls as the iowa caucus and new hampshire primary inch closer, the united states will soon find out if this is cruz's moment to shine. ed lavandera, cnn, dallas. >> we're going to take a brief break. donald trump has returned to the stage talking about the ban on muslims. we're going to go there live. also, ahead, bowe bergdahl in his own words about the day he walked off that base and to the taliban. all: milk! milk! milk! milk! milk! okay! fun's over. aw. aw. ♪
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tonight, the ceo of qatar airways says donald trump will no longer be welcome in muslim countries. this comes on the heels of his
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plan to ban muslims in the u.s. temporarily. the ceo told richard quest as a muslim he was offended by trump who he counts as a friend. trump has a huge luxury project in dubai. we're "outfront" tonight from dubai. >> reporter: donald trump should feel right at home in dubai. both have built successful brands around being the biggest, the best and not shying away from bold statements. >> the job that dubai has done is amazing. >> reporter: but donald trump's latest statement this week -- >> a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> reporter: has left many in this country outraged. >> he's racist, yes. >> reporter: in september, when asked if he thought muslims posed a threat to the u.s., he said -- >> i love the muslims. i think they are great.
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>> reporter: and trump has made millions through his holdings where islam is the latest religion and it may be a it had to his bottom line. at least two major dubai retailers pulled trump-related items from their shelves. once a fan of the republican presidenti presidential candidate, he says no longer. >> all of his brand in the muslim countries. >> reporter: not everyone, though, is ready to dump trump. right behind me is one of the donald trump's biggest partnerships in dubai. a 42 million square foot luxury development, will feature villas, a golf course branded with the trump name. for now, at least, trump's ultra rich friends are standing by him as construction goes on. as long as the trump has a brand here, the front-runner is unphased about how this ban will impact his financial empire. >> what i'm doing now is far
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more important and i'm talking about for the muslims. i'm doing good for the muslims. what i'm doing now is far more important than any particular business i have in the middle east. >> john jensen, cnn, dubai. "outfront" next, taliban captive bowe bergdahl speaking out and comparing himself to an action hero. >> doing what i did was me saying i am like jason bourne. >> jason bourne. and jeanne moos with the bald eagle.
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that is terrifying! introducing intel's new 6th generation core processor with amazing 4k quality. it's our best processor ever. tonight for the first time, millions of people are listening hearing sergeant bowe bergdahl talk for the first time, describing in his own words what led him to walk off his army base and into the hands of the
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taliban where he spent five years. jim sciutto is out front with the story. >> reporter: he was a prisoner of the taliban for five years. >> scared i won't be able to go home. >> reporter: and today in an interview aired on a pod cast, we hear sergeant bowe bergdahl's account of his brutal captivity for the first time. >> like how do i explain to a person that is just standing in an empty darkroom hurts. >> reporter: he says he was held in a room so dark he couldn't even see his hands. >> you're standing there screaming in your mind and standing in this black dirt room that's tiny and just on the other side of that flimsy little wooden door that you could probably easily rip off the hinges is the entire world. >> reporter: he was captured after he walked off his post in afghanistan to draw attention to what he called leader sh eershi
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failure in his unit. >> all i was seeing was basically leadership failure to the lives of the guys standing next to me were literally from what i could see in danger of something seriously going wrong, and somebody being killed. >> reporter: his idea was his disappearance, which he planned to be only temporary would draw the attention of the entire armed forces to the problems. >> everybody is alerted. cia is alerted, the navy is alerted, the marines are alerted, air force is alerted. >> reporter: but a mere 20 minutes after he left he knew he made a mistake. >> 20 minutes out i'm going good grief, i'm in over my head. suddenly really starts to sink in. >> reporter: his fears were quakely realized. >> the next morning was, you know, where i got myself screwed. >> reporter: within hours, bergdahl was surrounded by taliban fighters, his last moment of freedom for five
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years. this interview was arranged, of course, with the okay of bergdahl's defense attorney. now we've been seeing his prosecution playing out in the public. donald trump talking about how he should be shot as a deserter and house republicans accusing the white house of breaking the law by trading him for five taliban detainees and now with this interview we're in effect seeing his defense playing out in the public's fear, as well. erin. >> fascinating pod cast. thank you very much. they say the most watched pod cast of all time. "outfront" next, jeanne moos on one of the few times donald trump got his feathers ruffled. . and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be.
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tonight, we're learning you don't dare mess with donald trump's hair without an invitation unless you're a bald eagle. here is jeanne moos. >> reporter: donald trump is great at winging it but now he's become pray for comedians thanks to an eagle. >> the eagle is agitated because his dead brother is on donald's head. >> reporter: the video is from a "time magazine" photo shoot with an eagle named uncle sam as jonathan wood helped set up the shots, more than feathers got ruffled. you were there to handle the bird and you handled trump's hair. >> yeah, and it's real. >> reporter: but the bird became a headache when the donald inadvertently invaded his territory by reaching. >> it takes a little courage to
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work with a bird like that. he's the most difficult bird that i have to work with. >> reporter: the eagle was hit by a car more than 20 years ago and wood helped rehabilitate him. now 27 years old, he's blind in one eye and off balance but you can't call the bird a left-winger. he actually had part of his left wing amputated after the car accident. turns out uncle sam has also snapped at stephen colbert and bill clinton. >> yeah, he's an equal opportunity fighter. >> reporter: the trump eagle photos were part of a cover story in august. so "time magazine" releases the out takes about four months after taken. around the type trump criticized for picking angela merkel as person of the year. trump tweeted i told you "time magazine" would never pick me despite being the big favorite. they picked the person who is ruining germany. instead of being picked, trump is being pecked.
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>> after that trump was like now i'm now banning all bald eagles from america. >> reporter: guess whose time has come for bird of the year? jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> thank you for joining us. be sure to set your dvr to record "outfront." "ac 360" starts now. >> good evening. thanks for joining us there is breaking news on several fronts of the san bernardino investigation. an fbi dive team spent hours today searching a lake not far from the site of last week's deadly shooting and we're learning details why that lake is a focus and details who may have led the male shooter down the path of radicalization. our kyung lah joins us with the latest. i'm hearing the search at the lake is wrapping up for tonight. do we know what they were looking for? >> reporter: anderson, the search here at the lake wrapped up just a short time ago. we don't know exactly what t


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