tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN December 11, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST
going. >> we are terrifically proud of you, young lady. >> thank you, michaela. >> she is an amazing woman, and her story is so inspiring. and watch the whole show this saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern. it is one of those feel-good things if you do. and "legal view" with ashleigh and "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield and welcome to "legal view." we begin this hour with 13 women, 13 women who stepped up to the say that a police officer had sexual ly assaulted them, ad nobody would believe them. but this is former police a officer daniel clotheshoff, and he was convicted on his birthday yesterday, because the jury did
believe him of rape and other sexual crimes that could send him to prison for his life. and now, all of the victims are african-american, and all with rap sheets for drugs or prostitution or both are going to tell us how they feel about the moment when the verdict came down, and tbt trial, itself, and about a system that made them doubt an all-white jury would ever give them justice. we will listen in when their news conference is under way live. officer holtzclaw didn't choose ceos or soccer moms said the assistant d.a. in the closing arguments, he chose women that he could count on not telling what he was doing. and when he kicked him off of the force in january, the oklahoma city police chief said your offenses committed against women in our community constitute the greatest abuse of police authority i have witnessed in my 37 eyears as a
member of this agency. and so now maria machado is going to join us live now. this is astounding verdict, because the women who thought they would never be believed, but they were not only believed just a little but wholly believed. tell me about that moment. >> well, it is truly incredible if you are watching the feed from last night's delivery of the verdict. there was tension in the courtroom and we know that the defendant was very emotional. he was sobbing and rocking back and forth in the chair. it is almost like he could not believe what he was hearing every time the judge read a guilty verdict, and i want to read to you the reaction following that verdict was immediately very, very swift. we know that outside of that courthouse, a group of women gathered and they started singing "happy birthday" which is a reference to the fact that last night was danclaw's 29th
birthday and we are hear ing from the oklahoma city police department, and i want the read part of the statement on the facebook page which says in part, the oklahoma city police department is pleased with the jury's decision regarding this trial. it with because long and difficult trial, and the deliberations, and the process for all involved. it is obviously that the jury took their responsibilities seriously and consider ed every piece of evidence presented to them. we are proud of the detectives and the prosecutors for a job well done. it is obvious that the jury took every piece of evidence presented to them. we are proud proud of of the service. ashleigh? >> when you look at the women who took the stand, they were believed by this all-white jury, eight men and four women, on the
panel, and yet the conviction story is interesting. 36 counts and 18 convictions, and what does that say about the other counts where they did not choose guilty? >> well, you know, they were -- he was convicted on 18 of the counts as you mentioned and the district attorney did address that yesterday following the verdi verdict. and he basically said that doesn't mean that the jurors didn't believe those particular women. he feels that it may suggest that perhaps the prosecution didn't meet the burden of proof in those particular counts, a ashleigh. >> all right. alina machado, we want to draw your attention to that open mike that is empty right now sh, but are waiting for the victims to talk about the experience. it is is something that you don't always goat hear or see, and it is going to be telling, and we will go live to oklahoma city when the victims take a
position in front of the mics. i want to welcome in joey and also our cnn analyst melissa robinson. what do you see in this verdict, joey? >> well, in many ways, in the trial, you have an officer and you know how potentially difficult it can be with any officer who is engaged in any impropriety and using mel, she comes forward not knowing if the police will take it seriously, but they did investigate, and then by january, he is terminate and ashleigh, they discover it is not only limited to her, but there are 13 people out there. and so you get through that hurdle, and you say, do i really have faith in the system, because now we have an all-white jury and dealing with 13 african-american women, and would they get it right and
relate or disregard the claims. the jury got it right and then some. and then you go to the third real hurdle that the prosecution had to deal with and it is the nature of who the victims were and adds you mentioned to the lead-many for the story, people with checkered past and criminal histories and the downtrodden. >> and living in the world of prostitution, and drug addicts, and they themselves said, who would believe me. >> and to think, that and the defense attorney, you exploit things like that, and that is the greatest strength, the defen defense, but the prosecution turned it into the greatest weakness, and they said who else would this officer exploit pu the people who would not be believed. >> that is where the big mistake came in, and the whole case which is where i found fascinating turned when a 57-year-old grand mother became one of his victims, and she was pulled over by him in the neighborhood where he was constantly targeting these women, but she did not live there, and he did not realize na she was a middle-class afric
african-american woman who had no criminal record and did mow what to do when somebody like this did something like that, she called the police, and hat's off to the oklahoma city police, because even though the allegations were against another officer, they took it incredibly serious and it is within six months that they found that there are six allegations and unsolved cases that match up almost identically to this, and a pattern. he was targeting women in a particular neighborhood who were either using drugs or prostitutes and who he could hold power over by basically say saying that you either do the sexual act on me or you are going to jail. >> and i should be careful to point out that the patterns, because it is difficult to e report it on television, but it is patterns like forcing the women in the back of the cruiser to perform oral sex on him, and following them to the house, and this is guys, me protecting you,
and then going into their homes and raping them within their own homes and a 17-year-old girl he said, i will help you to get home safely and ultimately raped her at the home, and so every level is so extraordinary. we are going to to get you to the live news conference as soon as we can, and thank you both, for your insight, because the all-white jury and speaks volumes and a lot of concern many this case that the all-white jury, and they would not get justice, but the women who are about to take the microphones are going to be talking about it. >> and the recommendation is 263 years, and what does it say about how they felt about his conduct. >> yes. speaks volumes. hold it a moment, and we will come back to the live microphone as soon as the women speak. i want to take you the california where the divers are feverishly searching a lake, and looking for any evidence they can find in the san bernardino
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view." you are looking on the monitor at live pictures right now. this is a water source in san bernardino, california, and that is a diver acting as an investigator, and the diver is trying to learn anything that he or she can, and hard to tell who it is about a man and a woman who sprayed a ga thering of office workers with bullets last week, and no longer are they search searching that couple's home, but they have taken the search elsewhere. they have taken the search to look for clues to this small lake not far from the place where those murderous killers shot dead 14 people. this is the question today, what do they expect to find in that water? how long are they going to be in there? evidence that the couple was trying to get rid of and are they looking for weapons?
the fbi is not saying absolutely. but one theory is that a hard drive is really at key here. that it is missing from the killers' home computer, and they say that syed rizwan farook and tashfeen malik were in that area where you are seeing the divers right now at some point not too distant from when the actual crime happened. our ana cabrera is live in san bernardino right now, and she has been watching the process as many of us have been, ana and so as we are watching hour after hour these divers are bringing things up, and sifting through them, and then heading right back down under the murky water, so far hasn't yielded anything. >> you know, ashleigh, literally as we were getting set up for your live shot, they got into the the water. and this is the first they have been in the water today, and they were out here for several hours yesterday before nightf l nightfall, and we know that they are going to be out here as long as it takes to get through the whole lake to determine whether
or not there is any evidence that may be connected to tashfeen malik or syed rizwan farook. it took them a couple of hours to gear up. as you can imagine, this is difficult work and specialists with the fbi's investigation team working to find any kind of evidence that they say could be connect ed connected to the investigation, and while they won't tell us exactly what they are looking for, we know that there were items missing that they anticipated to find in the search warrant that they executed at the couple's town home, and namely that hard drive that is to the computer that is to the home. that is one thing that is a key part of the investigation, and that is because the investigators are trying to figure out if there are any other people who could have been possibly connected to the plot, and the couple's digital footprint is crucial. we are watching the divers and mostly staying near the shore assuming that one of the shooters to shooters could have thrown something into the lake, and there is only so far they could have gotten it. two divers tethered to
people on the shore, and going slowly through the water. we are told that investigators have scoured the entire park area, and yesterday with the fbi dr director and the assistant director with the bureau, they said they may be canvassing neighbors and neighborhoods in the days to come, and they are leaving no stone unturned were his words as they are continuing the investigation, and in fact, the dive team could be out here work ing f working for the next several days is our understanding, ashleigh. >> several days. i am looking at the live picture here as you are narrating this, ana and two divers and a very large body of water, and look, it is not a ocean, but if you are scanning the black bottom of a murky water like that, it is like a need hl in the haystack and especially if they don't know what they are are looking for. and two questions. have they brought anything to
the surface and sort of marched it over to the tent that is set up, and i would assume a collection area for anything that is somewhat suspicious or needs a second look, have they brought anything up? and how long are they going to be putting on this project? >> we have not seen them bring anything up to the surface yet as we mention ed they have just gotten into the water in the last ten minutes or so, and i'm not sure they brought up anything, but when the team was here, they did not witness anything coming out of the lake. as you pointed out the water is murky, and we have seen geese and ducks and other birds swimming in the water this morning, and so you have to imagine that it is dark and tough to see underwater when they go down, and they are staying close to the edge. staying chose to the surface of the water, and they must know what they are looking for and again, these are trained experts, but again, we are told they will be out here during daylight hours until they are feeling secured that they have have combed every area that they believe might yield some
evidence, ashleigh. >> all right. ana cabrera, keep an eye on this, and we will come back to you throughout the program as it warrants, but it is a fascinating picture to watch them at work, and hopefully it is going to yield some kind of evidence. i want to switch us over are from ana cabrera back to oklahoma city where benjamin crump who represented the families of michael brown and trayv trayvon martin is introducing the many of the women who testified against officer daniel holtzclaw who has just been found guilty on sex crime, and they have agreed to come forward to speak about the justice they feel they have received in the case against this oklahoma city police officer. so let's listen to benjamin crump. >> and the police officer, and nobody is doing anything about it, and they are trying to sweep it under the rug. you have to do something. and we have to do something.
i told him because i'm an attorney and officer of the court, and i really believe that equal justice prevails in america, and that every american citizen is given their rights, as citizens. so i told her that i am shure i is going to to be covered, and it is a sensational and case, and i am sure that the national media and america is going to be coming to the aid of these vulnerable women. i believed that. and so, i said, and we were busy in the other cases in america, and dealing with other minorities being killed by police aofficer, and so i said, said, just keep the faith, it is going to happen. and then a couple of months after that, mr. garland pruitt of the naacp called and said, nobody is doing anything about this case, and they are going to
be letting him off with this, and we have the speak out and cry as a country for these women. the vulnerable women, the least of ye, and i was in ferguson dealing with the michael brown case and i told mr. pruitt, i am sure it is going to work out. it is going to happen that people are going to care about these women, because they're somebody's mother, somebody's sister, and somebody's daughter, and somebody's wife, and somebody's grandmother, and we all have wives and mothers and sisters. they are going to care. they are going to speak out. and we kept waiting for them to speak out. and then sharde's father called me. it is one of those painful calls, and it is going to remind you, these phone calls reremind
you of one another. i thought about trayvon martin's father in that phone call. he was just flusterated that the person who violated his daughter was going to get away with it, and nobody was going to say a damn word. i sensed his anguish and pain and he said, i understand that you are coming to oklahoma, attorney simmons and holland and i are working on the matter in tulsa with monroe byrd, iii, a man shot and killed unarmed and i said, that we are coming to oklahoma and busy, but he said, mr. crump, the trial has started, and i go to that courtroom and i am so concerned that my baby won't get justice.
you just got to help us. when he made that plea, i thought about myself as a father. i have a daughter. he said, man, if they let them get away with it, i don't know what i will do. i thought about that. if that was my daughter. it became personal. you know, at lot of times, we were not humanizing this situation. and so, he humanized it for me more than as the or mr. pru wit could ever humanize it for me. he said, i want justice for my child. my child's life matters, too. and so it is that day that we were going to the university of oklahoma to speak on a lecture of black lives matter that we
came to the courthouse. we sat in, attorney solomon simmons and i and we listened to the painful testimony of these women talking about the most dehumanizing things that you can have possibly imagined. it just left a hollow pit in your stomach as you listened to them tell similar story after similar story. these women didn't know one another. so how would they have all been able to tell the same story over and over? i sat in the courtroom as an officer of the court really concerned that would justice elude them like it had eluded so many others in our community? i remember a young lady with
grace's group, oklahoma city artist for justice and these sisters were young college students who gave a damn and they cared about these other women that they felt connected that they committed to sacrifice their time to come to court everyday and take notes and tweet out out about what was happening in the trial, because like tez said and mr. garland said, no national media or nobody was covering it. so they took it amongst themselves to try to cover it. and so it became very profound to me when they said, attorney crump, look in the courtroom, nobody cares. attorney benjamin crump has been speaking out in front of the oklahoma courthouse. and he is about to introduce ostensibly the women who were involved in the case, and
hopefully when we come back, the women can come forward to tell us what justice was like for them. that is next. i've smoked a lot and quit a lot, but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology, helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq.
back live with you here on "legal view." we are watching the microphone outside of the oklahoma is city courthouse where attorney benjamin crump is still speaking. he is in front of a group of people represented mostly by women who testified in a trial of a police officer who has since been convicted of multiple counts of sexual assault. this is the image where he suggested that the press conference is partially a celebration, but also a chance to shed some light on the circumstances that developed in this particular case. if you are just join g ing us, led the program with this story, and on his 29th birthday, the
officer in this case, daniel holtzclaw was convicted of 18 of the 36 charges against him. and you might say, well, that is only half of the charges facing him, but the correspondent on location said that there were a number of things that the prosecution had not met the burden in some of the particular charges, but that all n aul sin the stories of the women who were affected by the crime, and the victims in the crime who were downtrodden themselves, and many of them admittedly prostitutes and involved in the drug world didn't believe they would get justice, but they did. they were believed by an all of h white jury and so many people said 8 men and 4 women, and all white could not give these women justice, but that is clearly not the case. and so, now, the stories are so poignant and important at this point. i want to bring in my legal panel mark o'meara, and mel and
joey are already here, but are talking about the significance of the case, and we are in an era where the officer behavior is under a microscope, and i want to get your opinions as well, when you watched the elements of the case develop, mark o'meara, is it a small case in a massive story that is still unsolvable, but are we moving in direction that is at least going to make a difference for people out there and their perceptions of the officers and the behavior? >> not only justice for the victims of what he did to the downtrodden take on knowing that he could victimize and abuse th them, but you are right, we may need it for the system, because we know that there is a horrible disconnect between the way some law enforcement officers are acting and they seem to be getting away with. what i like about this from the system perspective is that this officer did something wrong, and he was caught, and it was not let go or shoved under a rug like i know that there are
arguments that has been alleged like in chicago for 400 years, but he is prosecute and convict and going to spend the rest of his life in jail. and we are going to be telling the community we will hold our bad cops responsible. >> and mel robbins, jump on that as well. this is a moment in a very big story across this nation in a very important era. but it is also a moment in sex abuse, and sex crimes and vi victims who dot no typically like to come forward no matter the socioeconomic background, but you women who might be the first with one who said, no way am i going to be putting myself in a predicament where i am going to be outed and b, i won't be believe and then i will be excoriate and my life is worse than it is now. and does it change this for those women out there who believe they can't get justice? >> i hope it does. you make an excellent point, ashleigh, because he was preying on women. >> can i cut you off, because the first person is stepping up
to the mic. >> yes, you may. >> and good morning, everybody. give all of the praise to god. i thank god that i can stand here today and talk and say this. i was violated in june by a police officer. he stopped me on 50th and lincoln for no reason whatsoever. pulled me over. and fondled me and did certain things to me. i was out there alone and helpless, and didn't know what to do. and in my mind all i could think is that he was going to shoot me. he was going to kill me. he did things to me that i didn't think that a police officer would do. he made me perform oral or sodomy sex on him. i didn't know what to do. i was so afraid. i was afraid for my lie.
i kept begging him, sir, don't make me do this, sir. sir, please. you are going to shoot me. he said, i'm not going to shoot you. i said, yes sh, you are going te shooting me. and the only thing i could see is my life flash beyond my eyes, and i saw the gun on his holt holster, and i was afraid to look up to see his name, because i knew he would kill me. and so he did so many things to me, and i was so afraid and like i say so helpless, and with god's will, he let me live. he let me live to tell this story like a lot of victims are not able the to do. and i thank god above for letting me do that. all i can say is, it was a victim. i was traumatized. i went to therapy. i had a stroke behind this. and i still live with this day after day. and all i know is that i was not
a criminal. i have no record. i didn't do anything wrong. you said i did something wrong. he said i was swerving, which i didn't. he just wanted to stop me. all i can say, and i was innocent, and he just picked the wrong lady to stop that night. >> yes. that is all i can say. [ applause ] >> take your time. >> and now you are will hear are from another hero ms. said hill who will tell you what happened to her, and she has her mother and father to her side. >> i just want to say on the night that i was stopped, i didn't expect for none of that
to happen. and when he approached the car, i mean, i didn't know what was going to happen next. because me and some others were sitting in the car and they came and approached the car and went are from there. and once he did the arrest, i was tooken to the hospital on the whole opposite side of town which i didn't think nothing of it at the time. once i got there, they gave me, took off my clothes and handcuffed me to the bed and took me to a room, and no nurses, nobody came to check on me. shortly, he was just started to
manipulate me. and -- >> take your time. >> me being in the room with the police not expecting to get violated the way i did, the way i was done, i just couldn't even believe it. i just -- i was speechless. i was scared. i didn't -- when everything was going down, i just felt -- i was -- i mean i was scared. i didn't know what to do. i feel like i was in survivor mode and i had to do what he was making me do. so -- >> that is fine. that is fine. >> thank you.
[ applause ] >> we do want to allow her parents to speak as well. i want to take a moment as president of the president of our national association of lawyers of color to thank the jury for studying the evidence, and for deliberating and treating these women like they would treat any other american citizen, and so we are very thankful, because a lot of people did not think that these women could get justice. and it shows that there is hope for our country. there is hope for society. there is hope for all of our sisters, mothers, wives, dau daughters who are victims of rain no matter what race they
are, what ethnicity they are. what socioeconomic class and status they are in, because we certainly believe that serial rapist with a badge had a modus operandi that targeted poor black women who were in the system. >> that is attorney jbenjamin crump outside of the oklahoma city courthouse. and we have heard that there would be up to eight statements, and two have made a statement, and we don't know if any of the others are going to speak publicly, but it is telling what you heard from the very first woman who stepped up to the microphone, and she said, he just picked the wrong lady to stop that night. for that, i want to come back to the panel. and mel robbins, you said it first, he picked the wrong lady. a woman in her 50s who did not
come are from the same area, and did not have the same background and she said it herself, i had no record, and i had no criminal background and she had less to lose than the rest of the other s, and this is the domino that started the case falling. >> yes, and she had been at her friend's house playing dom knows and driving home. it is really compelling and unbelievably sad to listen to her talk about the fact that she feared for her life. she had done nothing wrong. but you have to applaud her for going to the police. and something that mark underscored earlier, that this is an important case to talk about, because it is a case where a really bad cop was weeded out very quickly. that makes the police officers in oklahoma city look amazing. because they are doing their jobs. >> doing the right thing. >> contrasted with chicago where you are will see somebody who is basically protected be i the
system for 400 days, and that undermines trust overall. >> how do you think that the community is going to react to this? we have had so many reactions in so many cities where a bad cop is doing bad things? >> i have to think that everyone, community and elsewhere would have to react in a positive way. why? because it is an instance of course of where you think and consider that it is an officer with a badge, and can anybody get justice? the police department gets the case, and they fire him after finding out exactly what happen and ultimately brought to trial and you have accountability. and on the issue of accountability, the community has reason for hope here to peel back the onion and get it right. on the issue of accountability, certainly, h this is looking at certainly a life sentence, and here is why. if you look at the victims who just spoke, and think about the harrowing nature of their experience and think about what she must have felt thinking about, i could die today, and he could shoot me.
>> and i want to reiterate the first woman who spoke, and she is to the left of benjamin crump and holding benjamin crump's right hand. and she said, if i knew his name, i knew that he would kill me. and she knew if she looked up she would see his name on the badge, and she was afraid of that, and just the knowledge of his name made her fear for her life. >> and that is horrific. and here is why i think that legally, certainly, this officer and why i say life, because these are separate and distinct offenses, and separate and d distinctly every woman endured something differently, and the judge will give consecutive time. and normally when a defendant commits an offense and it is transaction and occurrence and
the same act and charged with multiple things, but since it is the same act, you will get 20 years or 30 years and it is all in one, but in this case, based upon what he did to each, the judge will apply -- >> act after act after act. >> yes. >> and act after act after act and i can say it 13 different times, because there were 13 women who came into the courtroom and establish ed the pattern of the behavior, and mark o'mara, the pattern of the behavior. and if one of these women had come forward and told her story and did not show a pattern and i'm talking bill cosby e here, because there is a pattern and dozens of women who have had the same story years and years and if one of them had come forward would it have been the result? >> no, and we have talked about it in the bill cosby case, but it is similar fact evidence. if they are similar enough to get into the courtroom, and one particular fact set, we are not certain, but the attorney did a
great job, but we have reasonable doubt, but 13 victims who say it came in to me, and in a similar way, the benefit of the doubt that would go to the criminal defendant in a one-act case goes out of the window, and may lead to the conviction and well it should have, because we know that it happened in all of the cases, because we know it happened in most. we look forward to see what the sentence is going to be. >> and talk about bravery. and so many layers of bravery, and not only the women who came forward and the domino e leader who came forward and the others who came forward and then those who came forward right now to speak live in front of the nation, and this is justice and i will tell you what it looks like and tell you what it feels like and tell you what it sounds like, and it is me. and it is me, and i am going to say it. so many people who are involved in these kind of cases -- >> and hopefully thinking that those who are not talking or acknowledging it, will talk about it and that and that the
system can work. >> and for the police officers to know to bolster the great men and women out there serving, you have to get rid of the bad once as fast as possible when they come the light. >> thank you, all three. i appreciate it. it is a hard story to cover, but it is a silver lining that you want to have hope. mark, mel, joey, thank you. when you heard sergeant bergdahl's podcast was airing yesterday, and it detailed the time in captivity, we wondered if his attorney knew that he was doing the interviews? did his attorney approve of doing the interviews? did they know that the interviews would be broadcast for everyone, including you to hear? did he know that potential jurors would hear it, too, if he goes the trial? all of those questions are next. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason?
we are counting the minutes until the next episode of "serial" and what is "serial"? it is the most downloaded podcast of all time, and debuts the second season yesterday with this man, sergeant bowe bergdahl who described for his first time publicly the capture by the taliban after leaving his post in afghanistan back in 2009. bergdahl says among other things, he was trying to the live up to a super human image when he made that awful decision. >> i was trying to prove to myself, and i was trying to prove to myself to anybody used to know me that i was capable of being that person. >> like a super soldier, you mean? >> yeah.
capable of being what i appeared to be. like doing what i did was me saying i am like jason bourn or whatever. >> like a character? >> yes, yeah. >> and so whatever the reason, the military is trying to decide whether or not to court-martial bowe bergdahl for desertion, and i am joined by jean, his attorney, and did you okay knowing these statements were publ public? >> well, any attorney would say it is confidential information, and would decline to answer and that is my answer unfortunately. >> okay. i respect that, and i will go this route.
did these interviews that he did that are so incredibly public make your job more difficult? >> well -- i'm afraid that you are trying to get into my head on that. i will will say this, ultimate ly ultimately, you know, we have already had an article 32 preliminary hearing on this case. we know roughly what the facts are, and my own view is that anything that emerges from the serial podcast is probably in the public interest, because the more people who know about it, the better, and so whether it complicates my professional job or not is not really the issue. to me the more important issue is does it advance public understanding of the case, and i think it does. that is the best i can do on the question. >> and so -- [ laughter ] -- and i am only laughing, because none of this is funny, but every time i interview a w
lawyer and i have interviewed thousands for 27 years in my job, i get the exact opposite answer, gene, which is, i tell my client to shut-up when we are facing charges or an article 32 procedure, because your client might still face court-martial, and this is information that can and will be used against him if he goes the court-martial. >> well, let me respond this way. last year my client was interviewed by then major general lieutenant kenneth dahl at fort sam houston, and they were kneecap to kneecap the whole day and my client answered every single question put to him, and he was under oath at that time, and general dahl got a very good sense of the whole set of facts and is
circumstances. unfortunately, the army has resisted our request that the interview be made public. we went to court of appeals who turned us down an hour ago on the pending last appeal, and that is going to to go to the district court, but we have been struggling to get the facts out. i wish that the army had made sergeant bergdahl's transcript of his interview, 300-something pages public, and unclassified and help the public understand the entire case. >> and gene fidell, i could talk to you for days about this one, because it is very unique. i will invite you back, because i have more questions for you when i have more time. can you come back? >> i will see if i can. >> i get that answer a lot, too. thank you, gene. appreciate it. >> you are welcome. >> still so many questions about this case, and my next guest has
a lot of questions, too, because he served in the same company of bowe bergdahl, and he says that he and his fellow troop would have died for him. and you just heard bo bergdahl answering as to why this interview was public, and some say he might be wanting to sweet anne jury pool, and getting a sympathetic story out to any other soldiers who may sit in the jury box in judgment of him if there is a court-martial, and how you feel about that? >> well, even if that is the case, he still disobeyed the orders and basic orders, and if he is trying to sweeten up a jury that knows the rules and regulations of the military, it is not going to be working very well. and when you talk about him like talking down the leadership because he felt unsafe, that is something that should be looked at a lot harder, too.
>> and jose, to that point, you were in leadership and granted not in the same platoon with him, and you did not lead him in the platoon, but in the same company, and his complaints about leadership is ostensibly why he said that he left the base and he wanted to go to tell another base farther away what was going on at this base to protect you and fellow soldiers, and what is wrong with that? >> there is a lot wrong with that argument, and especially when he said that he wanted to leave the o.p. that he was at to go seek help when, not even 24 hour hours he would be back on that base anyways, and it is not like he was away from faub sharana for so long that he could not seek help. it is not like he was out there for months at a time. we took turns guarding this post. and so for him to say that he needed to leave, because he felt like his life was endangered doesn't make any sense, because all he was doing was to put his life in danger, aed when he left, he was on guard duty at
this time. what he did was to end up leaving in the middle of the night, and left his guard post which was open to attack, and somebody could have gone in there and done some damage or something, and then put himself in danger. >> and can i ask you, because he did put himself in danger, and cle clearly did. he was captured an tortured effectively for five years. and so to that end, jose, no matter what he did that time, and the lives that were put in danger searching for him, has he suffered enough already? or does he need to be court-martialed for that? >> when you join the army, you volunteer to join. you volunteer to follow all of the rules and regulations is set in point. you volunteer to follow all of the training and everything that you are taught so that you survive. the leadership that he is talking about is leadership that i deployed with to iraq for 15 months that i was in fa lucia with. when i was with them, nobody was harmed when i was with this in
fallujah. and so i didn't -- >> sorry that which have to leave it there, because i am running out of time, and the wolf blitzer show is coming up, and jose, thank you. i appreciate it. brianna keilar is sitting in for wolf blitzer who is on assi assignment. they will be the power to feel better. my favorite part is to be able to lift your legs up a little bit... ...and it feels like i'm just cradled. at mattress firm get zero percent apr financing. and there you have it. visit mattress firm, america's number one tempur-pedic retailer today.
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