tv At This Hour With Berman and Bolduan CNN December 16, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PST
hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. >> i'm john berman. we are outside the venetian las vegas where it is the first morning after the last gop debate of 2015. and you can still see the steam rising from the venue behind us. it was just that intense. serious dust-ups between marco rubio and ted cruz, serious smackdowns between donald trump and jeb bush. but serious restraint between the front-runners, donald trump and ted cruz. their bromance still in full bloom. >> oh, yes. the big focus of the night was national security. so who is leaving las vegas the big winner? let's discuss. let's bring in cnn senior political reporter nia-malika henderson, amanda carpenter, a former communications director for senator ted cruz as well as kevin madden, gop strategist and an adviser to mitt romney's presidential campaigns. all right, guys. a lot happened last night.
let's distill it down to a lightning round of who was the biggest winner of the night. amanda, go. >> let's say reince priebus. this was a great debate for the entire party. it was substantive. they kept to the issues which was remarkable given the big field. so i think everyone was very happy. except for maybe the question -- sorry, hugh hewitt -- whether he'd be willing to kill civilians, go to war with isis. that caused some heartburn among republicans. other than that, great night for the party. >> nia. >> i think jeb bush. i was a little cold-hearted to him yesterday. >> you were cold. >> sort of at his most relevant point. i think he wins most improved award. i thought, you know, in terms of going after donald trump, he landed some of the biggest applause lines last night. i was in the auditorium. so people were very pleased to hear him go after donald trump. i think he turned donald trump into a punch line. the people i was sitting next to
were really laughing at trump and not with him. >> is that enough, though, for jeb bush? don't ruin our lightning round yet. kevin, you. >> we're at that stage right now where momentum is really crucial. and i thought ted cruz had the best night because nobody did -- you know, we had this anticipated battle between him and rubio. >> yeah. >> and potentially him and trump, which we didn't see a whole lot of. but i don't think anybody slowed his momentum right now. you're seeing 15, 20-point bumps in the polls in some of the early primary states that cruz came out of there without any nicks i think was a good sign. >> let's drill down on the ted cruz phenomenon. one of the thing taz people are talking about most from this debate was ted cruz versus marco rubio on a number of issues. metadata collection, national defense spending and you also had immigration. for the first time, a confrontation over marco rubio's position on immigration. let's listen to what they said. >> there was a time for choosing, as reagan put it,
where there was a battle over amnesty, and some chose, like senator rubio, to stand with barack obama and chuck schumer and support a massive amnesty plan. >> as far as ted's record, i'm always puzzled by his attack on this issue. ted, you support legalizing people who are in this country illegally. >> he was fighting to grant amnesty and not to secure the border. i was fighting to secure the border. >> so amanda, this was the third of three kind of exchanges between these two candidates. i've heard people say that one person won, one person won the other. what did you think? did ted cruz get what he wanted out of that? >> yeah, and there's been some criticism. there was a little bit of inside baseball for the general election audience. but they needed to have this confrontation over immigration, over surveillance, and particularly over military intervention in order to set the stage for how this debate might move forward in the next couple months. this is the fight for the heart and soul of the party, where we go in terms of foreign policy.
you'll see it debated in places like red state, "national review," "wall street journal." you see the establishment-type forces behind rubio and sort of supporting the people that want the full extension of the patriot act and then you have cruz saying maybe there's a third way. we don't have the full extent and we can still have a more targeted approach. and i think that's such a healthy debate to have and that's one of the reasons i credited the party of being a big winner of the night because this was all substance. and we really have to resolve these issues at some point. >> maybe they both win on that. to nia's point about being bush most improved, here was one big moment of the night that jeb bush had in taking on donald trump, especially in light of how this has gone when he's gone on the attack in past debates. listen here. >> this is a tough business to run. >> i know, you're a tough guy, jeb. >> and we need to have a leader that is -- >> real tough. >> you're never going to be president of the united states by insulting your way to the presidency. >> let's see, i'm at 42 and you're at 3. so far i'm doing better. >> doesn't matter.
doesn't matter. >> so far i'm doing better. >> it doesn't matter, doesn't matter, doesn't matter. keep saying it, i guess. did jeb bush do what he needed to do last night? >> look, i think jeb bush helped himself last night. the big question for him is was that a fight that he needed to have three months ago and then have every day for three months in order to really start knocking down donald trump and consolidating some of that center-right lane which really does fear a donald trump ascending candidacy. >> it's interesting. you could say that he helped himself, perhaps, but didn't hurt donald trump. i mean, i don't know that he's going to take anything out of trump. and then not only that, but it actually might help trump in the end by boosting jeb versus christie and rubio in new hampshire, muddling up that race for the establishment lane again. >> i think that's exactly right. the more that that lane becomes crowded, the easier it is for trump and cruz to try and whittle this down into a two-person race on the other side, which is the
anti-establishment race. and if you look at the polls, that's probably 50% of the race right now. so it's a difficult task for jeb to break through, i think, this late. but they'll tell you he's breaking through. the jeb bush people tell you he's breaking through just in time. so we'll see. we have 45 days, i guess, until iowa. >> and what's the alternative? does the bush campaign want another what's reviewed as not a good debate performance? take what you're going to get, i guess. okay. so nia, to you, as amanda was saying, she thinks reince priebus was the big winner, the party was the big winner maybe because what amanda was talking about, though, maybe because they got donald trump to say definitively, very definitively, that he's a republican and he's not running as an independent. here's a moment. >> i am totally committed to the republican party. i feel very honored to be the front-runner. and i think i'll do very well, if i'm chosen, if i'm so fortunate to be chosen, i think i'll do very well. >> yeah. people clap.
i think even hugh hewitt clapped at that moment. i think the problem here is this is donald trump saying that last night who knows what donald trump is going to say two weeks from now, two days from now, two hours from now. but i think it's certainly a sigh of relief for reince and the party, at least for now. i think it's still unlikely that he run -- >> even before he said that. >> yeah, even before he said that. >> i was struck, frankly, by the way he said it. if you listen closely, there was almost a touch of humility. >> he was accepting your hand in marriage or something. >> he always makes these statements, though, in the afterglow of a debate where he thinks he did very well. >> i love everybody. >> in a week where he starts to get attacked again or he starts to drop in the polls where he changes his mind. trump has been known to do that. >> but there was another sign that donald trump is perhaps maybe maturing a little bit as a candidate. he's saying, you know, i'm not going to do this third-party bid. honestly, that would have caused such fury and backlash among republicans who are so desperate to win after being banned from the white house after the last
two elections. also, he chose not to attack cruz. they essentially declared a truce and i think it's because he got burned by talk radio, by conservative activists when trump decided to attack cruz from the left. and so i think they're putting the weapons down. they're realizing we have to win. and we're getting into a more serious phase of the cycle. >> he can win. >> that's why i thought that he may have said -- >> that he wouldn't win as a third party. getting valid access in all those states is such a high bar. >> can i bring up a surprise that hasn't been brought up more and that is marco rubio. i'm a little surprised here that no one said he had the best debate. >> we've definitely heard that almost every debate. he's not necessarily the name everyone's talking about the next day, but if asked, everyone said he had a really strong debate. >> i would have prefaced my remarks about ted cruz being the big winner with marco rubio being the other winner. he showed as much command as anybody on that stage on the issues that matter. and i think he also makes all of
those national security debates very relevant to the average voter that's watching at home. in a way that as he continues to make slow and steady progress, that he will quickly be the one candidate, that establishment center-right lane begins to look to as the best candidate to post up against the cruz and trump side of this particular -- the primary. >> and hillary clinton as well, right? >> and that's the one thing. you talk to any democrat, they will tell you, they are terrified of the prospect of going against marco rubio in a general election. they think he represents the toughest obstacle for hillary clinton winning the white house. >> and the last thing they're going to say that on cable tv because they don't want to give marco rubio what he wants to hear is that boost in the primary. amanda, nia, kevin, great to see you guys. thanks for joining us. donald trump, jeb bush, you heard the back-and-forth between them. we're going to dissect that a little bit more. did jeb really win each of those exchanges? and did donald trump make the right call not going after ted cruz?
also ahead for us, we're going to be following some breaking news on the investigation into the san bernardino attacks. the terrorists behind the attack here at the fbi director is just now revealing about the couple's communications. that's ahead. and any moment, we could get a verdict in the trial of the baltimore police officer accused in freddie gray's death. the jury deadlocked just 24 hours ago. will they make a decision in this is cnn's special coverage live from las vegas. we'll be right back. technology empowers us to achieve more. it pushes us to go further. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. information for an athlete's medical care, or information to track their personal best. with microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and that's time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world.
hangover or are they still buzzing from the fiery debate? >> let's ask our panel, mike shields, lou gargiulo, the rockingham, new jersey, co-chair for donald trump and anna navarro, a good friend of marco rubio but a supporter of former florida governor jeb bush. and anna, in past debates you have admitted to being glum, chum, after jeb's performances. but today it might be a different story because of exchanges like this. let's listen. >> he's a very nice person, but we need tough people. we need toughness. we need intelligence. and we need tough. jeb said when they come across the southern border, they come as an act of love. >> you said in september 30th that isis was not a factor. >> am i talking or are you talking, jeb? >> i'm talking. i'm talking. >> you interrupted me, jeb. are you going to apologize, jeb? no. am i allowed to finish? >> one at a time. go ahead, mr. trump. >> am i allowed to finish? >> a little of your own medicine there. >> governor, please.
one at a time. >> so what you saw there was jeb this time going toe to toe with donald trump. there were actually about three exchanges like that. and they all ended essentially the same way, with both of them, you know, saying i win, i win, i win. but it was a little different jeb bush than we saw before. is this, anna, at long last the candidate you wanted to see on stage? >> hallelujah! hallelujah! look, i think we did see a different jeb bush. if i had any athletic ability, i would be doing chartwheels and maybe if it wasn't 35 degrees in vegas right now. i think jeb has understood that performing, theaters, making memorable lines, having memorable moments is part of what this debate process is and that it matters. and he's done it. he's done it well. yesterday, the day before, we were not talking about jeb bush. he was, you know, a little snippet here and there. today he has been at the center of all the media narrative as
one of the winners of last night's debate. he performed very well, best debate he's had of the entire season. five debates now. and you saw it today. i ran into him this morning at the "new day" set. this was a pumped-up, relaxed, confident, happy jeb bush. not hung over. i think the only thing he could do now better is maybe a little cussing in a debate i think could go a long way, jeb. we can work on that the next time. maybe we can do it in spanish if it's not an fcc violation. look, i think it's a turnaround campaign. yesterday was an important part of that turnaround for jeb. he's now heading straight for new hampshire. they've got something called project new hampshire starting. he's going to be laser focussed on new hampshire. you know, i think this guy showed yesterday that he wants it. he's got the energy. he's got the commitment. and that he's still in the hunt. >> and the guy who is taking on most of the night, lou, was your guy, donald trump. donald trump unapologetic with a
very strong defense of his controversial proposal, banning muslims from entering the united states. listen to hear his explanation last night for that. >> we are not talking about isolation. we're talking about security. we're not talking about religion. we're talking about security. our country is out of control. people are pouring across the southern border. i will build a wall. it will be a great wall. people will not come in unless they come in legally. >> still, the party, people inside and outside the party, have condemned that proposal, though, lou. and i want to ask you for your reaction to how he did in this context. because he also said last night very definitively that he is a republican. he will not be running as an independent. but when you see the donald trump on that stage taking folks on, are you a little sad that he kind of took the independent run that off of the table? >> no, not at all. i think that he has said
privately, and he has said also publicly that he was going to continue as a republican. and i think just restating it last night only solidified his position both in new hampshire and across the country. and i think it's only going to help him. i think overall, he had a great night last night. i think that he articulated his concerns about immigration and about the issues with isis. and i think it's on the forefront of a lot of people. and i think the polls demonstrate that. looking at the overnight resu s results, he's in excellent shape. people are very concerned about the attacks that took place in california and in paris. i think people are laser focused on it. and they're looking for someone with leadership skills. and mr. trump has certainly demonstrated he's a leader. he says things that are not popular. but he says what's on his mind,
and that's what people want to hear. >> he certainly went into the debate out in front. you know, mike, it is interesting. and lou touched on it right there. this was a national security debate. and we saw a serious policy discussion and some serious policy division. i want to play a bite between chris christie and rand paul that kind of symbolizes that. >> we would shoot down the planes of russian pilots if, in fact, they were stupid enough to think that this president was the same feckless weakling that the president we have in the oval office is right now. >> i think if you're in favor of world war iii, you have your candidate. >> you know, it was interesting. talking about no-fly seasons in syria. obviously christie in favor of them. paul not at all, saying that christie wanted to start world war iii. it's interesting to hear this discussion, but does anyone win in a debate like that? it seems to me that you probably are already convinced on what side you are going in. >> a couple things. first of all, i think a big winner last night was the rnc
and cnn. you think back to boulder and how poorly it was handled. we've had debates where the moderator stayed on topic. everything was about foreign policy last night. i think there's two key words that come out of this, knowledge and strength. so these candidates are trying to display their knowledge on the issues, but they're also trying to display strength. i think that's one of the things governor bush got right last night. he's a good policy person. last night he was showing his strength. it looked like he wanted to do it. he tried to mix it up a little bit and this isn't very comfortable. last night he was, like, i really want to punch here. that came across with a lot of the candidates last night, how much strength can they show. that's really sort of what's going on in the primary in general. >> yeah. >> how much strength can you show is sort of trumping how much knowledge you might know about a lot of these specificish you autos. you saw christie there. he's combining a strength of a policy position, but he's delivering it in a way that proves i'm really strong here. and i'm willing to go toe to toe with putin, i'm willing to fight. that's really playing out in the republican primary. they're showing strength to the
electorate and compare that to what's going on in the white house. you heard over and over last night we're so upset with how weak the president's being. we want a strong candidate coming through. >> i think the real winner last night, frankly, were republican voters. you know, we got to see a substantive debate about a national security, you know, policy differences. we saw a spectrum of diversity of thought amongst the candidates on some of these very important issues. we saw candidates who knew their stuff. we saw some who didn't. i think we began to see yesterday the whittling down of this field. we saw the narrative come out of rubio versus cruz. we saw, you know, chris christie come out strong. we saw jeb bush, you know, resurrect and say i'm getting back into this fight. and we saw donald trump be donald trump. >> we are going to talk more about the possibility of whittling down coming up. mike shield, ana navarro, lou gargiulo, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> this was a serious policy debate about national security. you heard a lot of republicans
calling for perhaps more military force. you heard one candidate say he misses george w. bush. we'll discuss that. plus -- >> it wasn't jeb. >> interestingly, it was not his brother. >> ana, ana. >> what do they do next? how do they solidify the gains they think they made here in las vegas? also more on our breaking news. brand-new details about how the shooters, the attackers in the san bernardino massacre,
how they communicated with each other and pledged allegiance to jihad.
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lot of people are talking about today coming from the undercard debate. >> absolutely. here to give us his take on the performances last night is renowned debate coach brett o'donnell. he's the president of o'donnell & associates, a political consulting firm. he is also advising the lindsey graham campaign this time around. brett, it's great to see you. you were here yesterday kind of giving your expectations. i guess we should call it give them your grades. one of the big takeaways from last night is the back-and-forth on different topics and the engagement in the fight between marco rubio and ted cruz. and everyone kind of left wondering, as we have been already this morning, who won in that fight? who do you think won? >> well, in my opinion, marco rubio got the better of ted cruz last night. here's the reason why. these things aren't just about line-by-line pure debating. ted cruz still has too much of his college debating days in him. and he thinks it's all about the aggression and about being the alpha person. i think that's important but voters vote for three reasons. one of which is you're
competent. the second is they think that you share their values. and the third is they like you. and marco rubio just comes across more likeable in his exchanges. he's smoother, seems to understand when to counterpunch. ted cruz always counterpunches. always aggressive. and i don't think that comes off very well for voters. >> it's interesting, talking about cruz and likability. in past republican debates it's been somewhat popular. >> yeah. >> to perhaps go after the moderator. it's been somewhat popular occasionally to just seize time and take over the moment on stage no matter what the rules. ted cruz tried it last night, and it didn't seem to go over as well. let's play that. >> senator, senator, we're going to get to you. wait your turn. we have two hours to debate. we'll have plenty of time. let hugh ask his question. >> let me explain. >> senator, please. senator, you'll have plenty of opportunity. >> because iran -- >> go ahead, hugh. >> -- has declared war on us. but we shouldn't be toppling regimes that are fighting
radical islamic terrorists. >> these are the rules all of you agreed to. hugh, go ahead with your question. >> they were booing. the prince in debate champ. >> i think there's a difference between commanding the stage and seizing the stage. and ted cruz last night went way over the line not just in that instance but a couple of times where he was overrunning the moderators, but even overrunning his fellow competitors. at a certain point, that just appears rude, and it's another kind of stocking -- feather in the cap of not being very likeable. >> i do, though, think that ted cruz supporters, they like that about him. that he is that fighter. that he is that. of course, it's always kind of what lens you're kind of looking through, i guess. >> but the interesting thing is, he did that with the moderators and with marco but not with the person he really needed to, donald trump. >> not at all. and that was clearly a conscious decision. >> absolutely. and i think it's a bad decision on his part because donald just co-opted him last night. yeah, i've changed my mind.
i like him. he's fine. because donald's out in the front. and ted has to go after him. cruz has to go after him. >> we've got to ask you real quick, you're advising the lindsey graham campaign, he is the guy everybody was talking about from the undercard debate. he is known for his one-liners and is quick-witted. what struck a lot of people is how emotionally he talked during the debate. listen. >> at least 3,500 american muslims serving in the armed forces. thank you for your service. you are not the enemy. your religion is not the enemy. i'm tired of beating on bush. i miss george w. bush. i wish you were president right now! >> one, was that a planned line? i miss george w. bush? >> absolutely not. that comes from lindsey's heart. you know, senator graham, in my opinion, first of all, he's the only one with military service on the stages last night.
but, you know, the passion of his commitment to our troops and his commitment to winning this war comes out through his debate performances. and i don't think there's an equal to him on either stage. you know, not just because i advise him but because i know these candidates. there's not an equal to him on either stage in terms of his knowledge of these issues on foreign policy. and plus, when you mention princess bride in a debate, you automatically win, in my opinion. >> so far nothing else has worked in terms of the polls. >> will it work? >> maybe he'll get the buttercup bounce. >> john berman won this one. >> great line. >> thanks, brett. great to see you. this is cnn breaking news. >> we do have breaking news in the san bernardino terror investigation. just moments ago, the fbi director, james comey, said that the two killers, tashfeen malik and her husband pledged their commitment to jihad online
through direct messages in 2013 before they met in person. >> this is something we have definitely never heard before coming out of this investigation. let's get over to cnn's justice reporter, evan perez, live in new york. he just was in this briefing with director comey. tell us more, evan, and the significance of these direct messages. >> reporte well, john and kate, the fbi director is here at nypd headquarters really to talk about terrorism and to encourage cooperation with the local police departments. and one of the things that he did provide was an update on the san bernardino investigation. in particular, he was talking about the communications in 2013, late 2013, between syed farook and tashfeen malik, the couple that carried out the terrorist attack there. and he said that those communications took place via direct messaging because there have been some stories by "the new york times," in particular, that said that there was some
postings, public postings, that perhaps were missed by authorities. here's how he put it. >> we can see from our investigation that in late 2013, before there is a physical meeting of these two people and resulting in their engagement and then journey to the united states, they're communicating online, showing signs in that communication of their joint commitment to jihad and to martyrdom. those communications are direct private messages. so far in this investigation, we have found no evidence of posting on social media by either of them at that period of time and thereafter. >> reporter: and the importance of that bit of information is simply that there's really nothing that would be able for the fbi to see, at least not until this attack occurred. and they were able to get a search warrant to be able to get
those messages. that's something that's important because malik was applying for a visa and got approval without anyone being able to know what she was thinking about, what she was planning when she got to the united states. the other thing that director comey talked about today was providing an update on the chattanooga investigation. you recall earlier this year, a man by the name of mohamed abdulaziz killed five people at a couple military recruitment centers. and he said that that has now been determined to be a terrorist attack that was inspired by foreign terrorist propaganda. we know from talking to sources that the attacker there was being inspired by anwar al awlaki, the yemeni cleric who was killed in a u.s. drone attack. this is obviously now at the top of everybody's mind going into the christmas season, the holiday season. the concern about terrorism. john and kate? >> all right. evan perez for us in new york. obviously some news made there.
the direct messaging between the san bernardino terrorists, very interesting because the idea that social media, that something had been missed, did come up here in the debates last night. thank you, evan. >> a big part of the conversation and what to do about that going forward for sure. also coming up for us, a lot more ahead. the road to the republican presidential nomination just got a little bit shorter after last night. the first votes in the nation, iowa caucuses, they are just around the corner. 40-plus days away. but will everyone from last night's -- on last night's debate stage make it that far? plus, jury deliberations under way right now in the case of the first baltimore police officer charged in the death of freddie gray. this is just hours after the jury told the judge they were deadlocked. so what is happening so far this morning? some new information. we'll have the latest. innovative sonicare technology with up to 27% more brush movements versus oral b. get healthier gums in 2 weeks guaranteed. innovation and you. philips sonicare
shelter in place alert. there are reports of a man with a gun on campus. the reports indicate that a male has been seen in army fatigues walking into the architecture building there. that is all we know at this point. a shelter-in-place warning there. we'll get more information for you as soon as we can. >> we'll bring it to you as soon as we get that. we are here in las vegas, the site of the debate last night. there were nine candidates officially on the main stage. but in a certain way, there was a tenth candidate on stage. and her name, hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton wants to double down on a failed foreign policy. >> hillary clinton and barack obama's strategy is to lead from behind. >> hillary clinton and barack obama are responsible for the growth of isis. >> every one of us is better prepared to keep this nation safe than is barack obama or hillary clinton. >> if you were counting, hillary clinton was mentioned 31 times throughout the debate, the most by senator ted cruz, 10 games
followed by governor christie who mentioned her name 7 times. >> here to give us the democratic reaction to last night's debate, connecticut senator and clinton supporter chris murphy. senator, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> yeah, thanks for having me. >> of course. so you tweeted out just this morning the following. you wrote this. "memo to gop field. we don't beat terrorism with all-consuming irrational fear. we win by being smart and focused, learning from history." i can hear republicans talking in my ear right now from here in vegas, and they would say yes, senator, but if you look at recent history, hillary clinton was the one at the helm of the state department with the rise of isis and the fall -- syria falling apart. so is that the record that you want to run on? >> so, i mean, he thought what i saw last night was pretty scary. i mean, ted cruz seems to think that as long as you utter a couple tough-sounding words, you have a strategy. marco rubio seems to want to repeat the exact same mistakes that we encountered in iraq war
with massive ground troops, perhaps going back into the region. donald trump displays a dizzying lack of knowledge about the region in the middle east. and hillary clinton yesterday put forward really what is the only sensible, comprehensive plan to take these guys out, recognizing that ground troops in the region would give isis exactly what they want, would just balloon their recruitment numbers. but suggesting that a targeted, focused attack on these guys, wherever they live, whether it be online or on their way into the united states, is the way to go. so i think that the american people understand that isis is serious, that there is reason to fear them. but these republicans don't seem to have any real plan. they just seem to have a lot of talk that's empty and completely unnuanced. >> so senator, you heard more than one other candidate last night suggest that it is world war iii right now in the battle
against radical islamic terrorism. do you think that's an accurate description? >> well, i think we are absolutely at war with isis, but it's ironic that you had senators up on that stage yesterday who refuse to actually declare war in congress against isis. so a lot of tough talk from marco rube crow and ted cruz and even from rand paul occasionally, but all of them are doing absolutely nothing to put congress on record as supporting the president in his declared war against isis. hillary clinton has said that congress should declare war against isis, and she would support it. so for all of this tough talk about whether we're at war or not, congress actually has a constitutional responsibility to declare war, and all of these republican presidential candidates don't want to do it. that's the height of irony. >> that's a conversation and a debate that's been going on -- you're talking about the authorization of military force that's been going on on capitol hill for quite some time now. we'll see if congress actually acts. senator, thank you so much for your time. we appreciate it.
>> thanks, guys. >> have a good one. we are live outside the venetian las vegas, everyone, where the dust is still settling after last night's intense cnn debate. as we've been discussing this morning, national security taking center stage. the nine republican presidential candidates sparring how to keep america safe from terrorists. >> but interestingly enough, there was no sparring, none at all, between the two candidates leading in the polls. donald trump and ted cruz, they've had this bromance going on. and it continued, and i want to you see how donald trump, in fact, handled it toward the end of the debate. >> i've gotten to know him over the last three or four days. he has a wonderful temperament. he's just fine. don't worry about it. >> okay. >> really interesting to see that in the body language there also. >> awkwardly. >> i know, i know. so what does this mean going
forward? what do these candidates do next? we want to talk about the strategy into january. we're going to bring in cnn's political director david chalian and political commentator, kevin madden, a senior strategist for mitt romney in 2008 and 2012. you know, i am curious about what we just saw right there, donald trump saying ted cruz -- >> a little -- a physical pat on the back. >> my little friend. we're so friendly there. how much longer can they continue that? does it prove advantageous to both of them to stay friendly until iowa? >> any time you see a trend line in the polls that starts to threaten donald trump's position in the polls, he does tend to take that candidate on. so i think you may see some more from donald trump -- he may not do it on the debate stage when standing next to him physically, but he may do it out on the campaign trail and during interviews. but the other thing that's interesting is the ted cruz strategy of the bear hug, it's working. you know, he got out of that debate last night without having to get into a head-to-head fight
with donald trump that may antagonize trump supporters that ultimately he feels he wants, and he's going to need if he's going to win iowa. >> what does that say about the next phase of this debate? i mean, you think trump's still going to take cruz on. he has to or else the bear hug is just going to suffocate him. >> right, and i do think that donald trump, in taking cruz on, is sort of testing cruz to sort of see what do you got, right? we saw a little bit out of the campaign trail already before the debate. and i agree with you, it doesn't serve either one of them well on the debate stage. but out on the campaign trail, donald trump can see what ted cruz gives back. here's the thing. and kevin just got at this. ted cruz is a home, a natural home, for donald trump supporters if donald trump's support starts waning. we've seen no evidence of whatsoev whatsoever, but it makes sense why cruz would not want to alienate trump's supporters. >> when you're at one of these gymnasiums on a cold winter night in iowa and the trump supporters start to see that
there's not enough of them there to win the caucus, when there's a second ballot in those caucuses, they're going to start to swing over to the cruz people. the natural allies. >> the need for organization. >> i want to talk about -- and kevin, you've been there. you've been at a campaign heading into iowa and new hampshire. one interesting thing this time around, you have the month of january to campaign. you've got a month now to go. so who needs to do what? >> well, i think cruz needs to continue this momentum that he has in iowa. and he starts to make an appeal to the trump voters, also to the carson voters who may start to see the numbers dropping for carson and start to look for a natural home. but i also think marco rubio right now has to make a very quick push to try and consolidate the center-right lane of voters who are concerned about a potential cruz or trump nomination and start to really, you know, bring together all of those voters and become the natural alternative on that side. >> we have zero seconds, and you're not even wearing a coat. so i'm going to make this really
quick. do you think anyone's going to drop out before iowa or even before the next debate in january? >> i don't. i see no reason at this stage why anybody would get out of the game. let the voting began and then i think the reality -- >> but quick after that. >> very quick olympic. immediately after. >> great to see you. thanks, guys. also more breaking news in the trial of a baltimore police officer accused in the death of freddie gray. moments ago, one day after being deadlocked, the jury just sent a message to the judge. we'll be right back with that breaking news. the best of everything is even better during red lobster's ultimate seafood celebration. with jazzed up new dishes like the decadent grand seafood feast and the ultimate wood-grilled feast why wait to celebrate? so hurry in, it ends soon. ♪ ♪
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we do have breaking news. the jury in the trial of officer porter in baltimore has said that they is have a message for the judge. >> and this is the first officer to be charged in the death of freddie gray who died in police custody, and if it ends in a hung jury, the prosecutors will have to try the case again, but we are will go to baltimore and bring in cnn correspondent as we well as eric guster, civil and criminal trial attorney. and jean, what is the latest on what the message is? >> we don't. and we are just waiting right
now, because the jury buzzed, and they had a note. what that note includes, we don't know. now, everyone is waiting for the attorneys to arrive, and the judge not going to be taking the bench or bring the jury in until the parties are here, and until the defendant is here, and we have not seen them arrive yet, but once they are in place, we should know what this is, and now, they did say yesterday afternoon, mid-afternoon, they were deadlocked. the jury brought them back, and asked them to continue to deliberate as a judge always does. so they left yesterday a little before 5:30 and they were back here first thing 8:30 this morning, and we have heard nothing from them this morning, and so we have just been deliberating and the note could be significant, because this is about lunchtime, and about everyday when they take lunch, they never send a note, but take lunch and now they have suddenly got a note. so as soon as we find out, we let you know what it means and if there is any resolution to the case, and william porter is
facing four serious charges in the death of freddie gray range ing from the the felony involuntary manslaughter, to ten years in prison and misconduct in office which is a misdemeanor, and so there is anything that is possible in this point, kate. >> all right. jean casarez for hus on the ground in baltimore, and jean, let us know if you hear anything about what is in that note. eric, let's bring you into the discussion, because yesterday at the end of the day, we heard that they were deadlocked, and they went in to talk more and now a few hours into the deliberation, and now you have a new note, and so, what are the range of things that it could be? >> the range of things is that it is almost infinite, and you can have a jury that says that we have a verdict, and it could be that we are deadlocked again and they want more instructions or different types of evidence, because what you are seeing right now is what trial lawyers do, and everyone in the courtroom is nervous, and nobody knows exactly what the jury is doing to say, and they know that
yesterday they said that they were deadlocked which means if they can't reach the decision, the judge has the right and the ability to give them an allan charge which is to go back to try, and because you are the first jury to hear this case, and the best ones to review this evidence and you are the ones that we need to reach a verdict. everyone is hoping for a verdict. i am sure that the defense wants a not-giuilty verdict or hung jury, but we are anxiously awaiting to see. >> eric in your experience, can the judge offer the allan charge again after yesterday? is it likely that the judge woul would? >> yes. i believe so. because i believe that the judge would tell them to go home the rest and come back and try again, because it is not only importantly important to william porter and the family, but to the nation, so they want a defined verdict to end this case, guilty or not guilty, and
they want to have a defined verdict to let this case be over this week or next week. >> eric, it is interesting, because there are more than one charge there. and four separate charges, and would we know that if they were deadlocked on more than one charge? possible to be deadlocked on one or two charges and then reach a verdict on three or four? >> y, thes, that is a split ver. sometimes the jury comes back with one charge, two charges or maybe none of them, because sometimes they reach some of the cases and i have seen when you have multiple charges to agree on one or two charges, but on the third one, they are hung. so it is going to be interesting to see if the judge asks them, are you deadlocked on everything or deadlocked on a couple of the charges? because sometimes the judges will take those charges and let those verdicts be read into the record which means those charges can be put to the side, and the jury can go be sent back and
told to review everything from the other charges. >> eric guster, thank you so much, and jean casarez will be in the courtroom, and bring us the very latest. and now, will donald trump take on his rivals? we will go back with more live. >> and also, ted cruz who is threatening trump in iowa is pulling a news conference a short time from now, and what is the big revelation that could come out? join us from las vegas.
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donald, you know, he is great at the one-liners, but he is a chaos candidate. >> well, i think that jeb is a have nice person, but we need tough people. >> and yes, we would shoot down the planes of russian pilots if the they were stupid enough to think that this president is same feckless weakling that the president is in the oval office right now. >> well, if you think that you are in world war iii, you the right candidate. >> and i do more thinking than talk talking. >> and isis is going to be facing no more determined foe than i am. >> and i miss george w. bush.