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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  February 11, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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hillary clinton, they're getting ready to face off in just a little bit, two hours from now in the pbs news hour. you'll see it on cnn and your local pbs stations. that's tonight 9:00 p.m. eastern. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next, the stakes could not be higher. hillary clinton and bernie sanders one on one, a debate you'll see right here on cnn tonight. plus, donald trump says he's going to positive. is he taking a page from john kasich's playbook? and when bill clinton attacks, could he actually hurt his wife's campaign? let's go "outfront." good evening, i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight, showdown in milwaukee. hillary clinton and bernie sanders about to face off in the pbs news hour presidential debate which will air right here on cnn at 9:00 eastern.
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two podiums tonight. the stakes could not be higher for both candidates. they will meet on this stage at the university of wisconsin. it has been just 48 hours since sanders landslide victory over clinton in the new hampshire primary, beating her by 22 points. for clinton, not long ago considered the presumptive democratic nominee, she's locked in a battle for every vote as she looks ahead to nevada and south carolina, states that she expects to win. the african-american vote will be crucial. bernie sanders cannot win without some of that. today the congressional black caucus pac throwing its support to clinton. harry bellefonte endorsing sanders. i'm joined by this distinguished panel tonight in new york as we count you down. we're going to get into the details of tonight's debate in a moment. i want to begin with jeff
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zeleny. jeff, tonight truly is a very crucial night for both clinton and sanders. >> reporter: it certainly is. the outcome shook the confidence of donors and staff members and the candidate herself. this is a chance on this stage right behind me here to get back in the groove. we know one thing about hillary clinton. she does very well at debates. there's not a debate this cycle or the first time that she ran for president that she did not shine in. so what she's trying to do tonight is to get back to the issues, to focus on foreign policy, a strength for her, to highlight other strengths, her experience and record. the clinton campaign knows they have to improve their likeability. i think the sanders campaign has a burden to keep this in the driver's seat. bernie sanders has fallen into
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this moment a bit. he wasn't expecting to now be driving this campaign. he is now, so he needs to be able to show that he can perform at this level here. he's been very good in debates as well, but on issues of gun control and immigration, he'll have to defend his record here tonight. this is going to be a substantive debate. it will set the tone for the next phase of this campaign. >> donald trump expected to take the stage in just moments in baton rouge, louisiana. that's nearly 700 miles from where his fellow republican candidates were in south carolina. trump may have been out of sight, but he was certainly not out of mind. >> reporter: in the rough and tumble south carolina primary, donald trump is trying out a positive tone, pulling this ad that takes on ted cruz. >> what kind of man talks from both sides of his mouth on amnesty for illegals on national
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television and still denies it. >> reporter: and airing this sunny spot instead. >> it's cool to hear him speak the truth. >> reporter: it's a stark contrast to trump's jabs from the trail. his campaign now says it believes trump's friendlier tone give him a boost in new hampshire. >> new hampshire, what a great place. >> reporter: as trump tries to play nice, jeb bush fans are pushing him to hit harder. >> how do you plan to combat trump's silliness on stage when he tries to back you up or shhh you? >> the more he does it, the less presidential he appears. as long as i stand up to, because i'm the only guy going of him, hopefully i'll get credit for that. >> donald trump has zero foreign policy experience. negotiating a hotel deal in another country is not foreign policy experience. >> reporter: in a state that could prove to be another showdown between trump and cruz,
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cruz isn't backing down. >> it stood in donald trump's way. >> reporter: in the meantime, john kasich is trying to preserve the positive message that carried him to second place in new hampshire. >> it's all negative. how the heck can you sell negative? you know, i want to talk about what i'm for, my vision, my view, my positive. >> reporter: but even he says when attacked, he's ready to strike back. >> somebody wants to poke at me and they do, they're already starting, that's okay. i'm not going to be a pincushion, though. i don't take crap from anybody. >> reporter: now, it's interesting to see the two top guys out of new hampshire embracing this message of positivity, but tonight donald trump is not inside south carolina. he is here in louisiana. we'll see if that promise to play nice holds across state lines. >> thank you very much. outfront now, the 2016 republican presidential candidate ohio governor john
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kasich. governor, thank you so much. this has been a great week for you to say the least. you're in south carolina now, a state that you said you don't expect to win. where do you think you'll finish? >> here we go again, erin. we've got a lot of people coming here. our town halls have been exploding. we expected about 50 today where i am tonight. we probably had 400. we can't fit everybody in the building, so it's really fun. we're doing well. i've got to say the fact is that i got absolutely blasted in new hampshire and beat all the negative ads up there. donald trump saying he's going to go positive, i sort of predicted if we could show that positive works, might change the tenor of the campaign. all these people that want to go negative, how are you going to sell anything? how are you going to bring people together when you're trashing somebody else? why don't we have people talk
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about what they're for, what their view is of the sun comin up over the horizon? let's just try to be inspiring people with what we want to do. >> governor, obviously when you have talked about going positive, that's worked, right? it worked for you. it worked for you in new hampshire. you say, oh, here we go again, but we haven't seen polls for a while. new ones in south carolina. do you think your message is working enough? do you think you could win south carolina? are you being undercounted again? >> no. when i say here we go again, i mean predict how you're going to do. i know. i'm going to be a scrappy candidate. we're connecting down here. there's no question about it. where i'm going to finish, i don't know, but we're in south carolina. we're going to be in the deep south. i'm going to go to virginia, michigan. wait until we get to the midwest. it's just not a one play thing. it's going to be do your best here and move to the rest of
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country. you know, i feel really great about things. that's what i was saying about here we go again. i'm not like mohammad ali. i can't predict what round somebody is going to go down in. >> i was looking through the calendar today. we've got day after day, state after state. on super tuesday there's only one midwestern state voting, minnesota. that's putting you well into march. are you waiting on the midwest? can you afford to do that? >> no. we're very aggressive here. we're going to get to the deep south. i believe we can win mississippi. i've got the great trent lot that's for me there and gregg harper, the congressman. we're building a great team in mississippi. in alabama, the governor has endorsed me. we're starting to get a lot of traction in tennessee. we're not going to lay back. i think my message will really work in the deep south and i'm happy to be here in south
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carolina. it's not going to be like we're waiting. we're just going to do the best we can wherever we go. the midwest should be a really good place for us, particularly michigan. if i can get the people in michigan to forgive those of us who live in ohio and we can get together for this election, i think we'll do well in michigan. >> you talk about the deep south and how you think you can win mississippi. you have the governor of alabama endorsing you. one thing that might help you in that region is your stuff stance against abortion. planned parenthood is a lightning rod in this election. there's a bill on your desk right now to cut all the funds in that group. i know you have vowed to sign it. when are you going to get up there to sign it? >> i'll be signing it probably this weekend, but i want to make it clear to everybody. while we don't support planned parenthood, we do support a robust funding of women's health. we just can't operate through that organization anymore.
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they've lost credibility. we're going to make sure we have places women can go to get the treatment they need the same we've been trying to overcome problems we've had with infant mortality. we believe in early childhood education. i'm going to sign the bill, but we'll make sure women have a place to go. >> your record on abortion is consistent. you have enacted at least 16 anti-abortion measures since you became the governor. you've actually joked, though, of course that you should be running as a democrat. i know you were making a joke there, but moderates are crucial for you. independents like you. a lot of moderate democrats like you. 60% of independents support funding planned parenthood. is your conservative stance on abortion, which is a personal and passionate one for you, worth losing over? >> well, look, i don't make a
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lot of speeches about this. i'm pro-life with the exceptions of rape, incest, and life of the mother. you can't sit around and put your finger in the air to figure out who is going to like everything you do. i hope i have a broader message that's going to attract people. i have to do what i have to do. frankly, the deep south, theyvee got a lot of concerns. the same thing people have in new hampshire and minnesota and everywhere else. they're worried can they keep their job. can wages go up? these are things that i've tackled. i've tackled them before. i can again. i believe i can bring the blue collar democrats to the republican party. when the democrats are spending time talking about which one of them is a better socialist? are you kidding me? the blue collar democrats, that's repulsive to them.
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>> governor, thank you very much. a pleasure to talk to you again. thank you, sir. >> erin, thank you. thank you very much. and outfront next, a prominent african-american leader questioning bernie sanders' civil rights record as the fight for black voters heats up tonight. bill clinton has gone on the attack against sanders. will that backfire? we're counting down to the democratic presidential debate that you'll see on cnn. our special coverage continues right after this.
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all right. welcome back. we are going to show you the university of wisconsin where in less than two hours hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go led to head in a pivotal debate. they'll be right there on that stage and you'll be able to watch it right here on cnn. this high stakes showdown comes as hillary clinton picks up a key endorsement from the congressional black caucus pac. >> well, to be very frank, i don't want to cut you off, but i never saw him. i never met him.
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i chaired the student nonviolent coordinating committee for three years from 1963 to 1966. i was involved in the freedom ride, the march on washington, the march from selma to montgomery and directed a voter education project for six years, but i met hillary clinton. i met president clinton. >> and as the battle for black voters heats up, sanders nabbed the endorsement from harry bellefonte. bellefonte says sanders represents opportunity. brianna, this is a crucial night. the two candidates are moving into the deep south, into these key southern primaries and are trying to shore up their support among minority voters who are such a huge voting block there. >> reporter: yeah, certainly. you see this run-up with this endorsement race going on today,
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erin. a really tough day. i think tough words from john lewis for bernie sanders. i spoke to an aide to bernie sanders who said john lewis is a great american hero that bernie sanders respects. that just goes to show you you don't push back against an icon like john lewis, but we've heard supporters of bernie sanders trying to back him up here saying, look, he was an activist, he was arrested. he's out with an ad starring erica garner, who are the daughter of eric garner who died in manhattan after a police officer had him in a chokehold. she says she wants to support bernie sanders because he's a protester and is going to stand up for criminal justice reform. erica's mother has endorsed
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hillary clinton. clinton is going to try to focus on some issues that she thinks are going to resonate with black voters, hispanic voters. immigration, crime for instance, and also key, they're trying to paint bernie sanders as an opponent of president obama and hillary clinton as his heir apparent. >> thank you. michael nutter, the former mayor of philadelphia and our other panelists. let me start with you. congressman lewis, that was a big statement. it was a pretty damning statement, essentially suggesting that bernie sanders has overplayed his role in the civil rights movement. when congressman john lewis says
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he doesn't remember bernie sanders, but he did see hillary clinton, how hard is that to hear? how damning is that? >> everybody here at this table has enormous respect for john lewis, the personal sacrifice he made. but i don't think bernie sanders has ever said he was a leader in the civil rights movement or he was at the level of john lewis. he was like many thousands of young people who were inspired by the civil rights movement. i've seen a picture of him leading a sit-in at the university of chicago trying to force the university to desegregate housing there. a friend of mine was in that picture as well. i think both john lewis as an icon, i respect that, but there's no question that bernie sanders was engaged in the civil rights movement. he was inspired by that. i think that's one of the things that inspired him to get into public office and be active in public life. >> mayor nutter, bernie sanders did get some crucial
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endorsements. we mentioned harry bellefonte and a former naacp president. is hillary clinton taking the black vote for granted? >> no. not at all. we've talked on many occasions about the fact that african-americans, like any other constituency, it's not a monoli monolithic group of folks. we're not held to a different standard than any other american. white americans can be whoever they want to be for and african-americans can be whoever they want to be for. she has a long history. she has a record. it is well known and well established, but she's going after every possible vote in the african-american community and every other community around. >> is it fair to look back at history and say john lewis knew
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hillary clinton and saw her and didn't see bernie sanders? >> if you're going to put out that you were involved as senator sanders has said about the civil rights movement, you can't be put out by someone who was there says he didn't see you. >> the more important issue is which candidate offers to the african-american community a significant role in how they would govern if they become president of the united states. i met bernie sanders for the first time when he came to the national urban league conference. there really has not been a significant relationship historically between bernie and african-american civil rights -- and i spent 15 years as an
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elected official. so he's starting from scratch, if you will, trying to engage. this is a distinction that i think congressman lewis was seeking to make. the good news for the african-american community is that the african-american vote is competitive. candidates are going to pay attention. we would hope that even the republicans would pay attention to the african-american community and address the issues. i think this is what this is really all about. >> i want to play a little bit of that ad from eric garner's daughter. eric garner's mother endorsed hillary clinton. his daughters support bernie sanders. a generational divide. >> i'm behind anyone who is going to listen and speak up for us. i think we need to believe in a leader like bernie sanders. >> it is not acceptable to me that we have seen young black
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men walk down streets in this country, be beaten and be killed unjustly. >> there's no other person that's speaking about this. people are dying. >> congressman james clyburn is a prominent african-american in south carolina. he talks about his own family, his middle-aged daughter for hillary clinton, his other daughter for bernie sanders. is this more about age than it is about race? >> i think it is largely about race. we've seen bernie all through the country. we just talked last night about young women versus older women and hillary. i do think you have a generational change, but i'm not at all surprised african-american leaders would be drawn to bernie sanders, especially somebody like cornell west. that makes absolute sense. what surprises me is the african-american leaders who saying bill clinton wasn't a very good president for blacks.
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that's not the way blacks saw it at the time. when he ran for re-election, he got 84% of the black vote. he had 89 to 90% approval in the gallup polls. so i was there with bill clinton. whenever you may think about bill clinton, he was very good on civil rights and very good about advancing the african-american community. i ran into african-americans who said i got my job through bill clinton. >> i haven't heard anyone criticize bill clinton except in trying to get attention. bill clinton is not the candidate. hillary clinton is the candidate. >> it is a crucial question. bill clinton, after months of staying above the fray, has started to attack bernie sanders. he is on the campaign trail big time.
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could it backfire? after donald trump's big win in new hampshire, the other gop candidates are turning their toughest attacks on trump. >> donald trump has zero foreign policy experience. negotiating a hotel deal in another country is not foreign policy experience. think of it as a seven seat theater... for an action packed thriller. urgent diarrhea.in.
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tonight, hillary clinton and bernie sanders facing off in the pbc news hour democratic presidential debate. it's just an hour and a half away and it will be right here on cnn taking place on that stage at the university of wisconsin. hillary clinton, of course, needs to reassure supporters that she is still the frontrunner after her blowout in new hampshire, the loss there. she's no doubt getting advice from her husband. but could one of her closest advisers be hurting her campaign? >> reporter: bill clinton loves the campaign trail. >> this state has been so good to me and to hillary. >> reporter: he's still the biggest name in democratic politics, one of the most popular former presidents, but clinton nostalgia is facing a fresh test in a year where being
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part of the old guard carries new liabilities. in his wife's second presidential campaign, he started with a soft touch. >> she's still pretty much the same girl i fell in love with in law school. she really is. >> reporter: he refrained from responding to donald trump's attacks on his wife. >> i have no interest in getting involved in their politics. >> reporter: but the former president is directly confronting bernie sanders. >> when you're making a revolution, you can't be too careful about the facts. you're just for me or against me. her opponent, a champion of all things small and enemy of all things big, voted for that bill. >> reporter: sanders took exception to the criticism. >> is d was disappointed in president clinton. >> reporter: some democrats are starting to have flashbacks to 2008 when president clinton was a harsh critic of barack obama.
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>> give me a break. this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale i've ever seen. >> reporter: that fairy tale line stuck with clinton and made him seething mad, but he diminished obama's victory in south carolina. >> jesse jackson won south carolina twice in 84 and 88. >> reporter: but as this campaign escalates, some democrats wonder if he'll be able to hold his tongue. he knows his words are magnified. >> sometimes when i'm on a stage like this, i wish we weren't because then i could say what i really think. >> reporter: president clinton is in the spotlight again, a high wire second act. >> the hotter this election gets, the more i wish i was just a former president and just for a few months the spouse of the next one.
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>> reporter: he hopes he will be the spouse of the next one. that's why he's involved in almost every aspect of this campaign. they welcome his input. he's actually very strategic. one of the sharpest minds in politics. one adviser told me tonight with the good, sometimes you get the bad, but it's all worth it. we'll find out as this campaign goes along. he's on the road in atlanta on saturday to campaign for super tuesday state. >> mark, let me start with you on this. president clinton caused some problems for hillary clinton the last time around, caused some real problems. the fairy tale being one example of that. is he a liability or an asset to her this time? >> i think he can be an asset. i think he was a good president. i was mayor of new orleans and the cities progressed. we had lower crime.
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we had stronger jobs. we had jobs for young people. those are the absolute facts and those are what the experiences are. was it a perfect time? no, but it was a good time. i believe in this race the voters' focus should be on in the democratic primary hillary clinton and bernie sanders. while president clinton is an important factor in and important part of who hillary clinton is, i think her record should stand on its own, should be evaluated on her own, her words, her vision. this is her time to either democrat she demonstrate that she's prepared to be president or unprepared to be president. so bill clinton is best when bill clinton is positive. bill clinton is best when he talks about his vision. as president, he was a positive, if you will, communicator. i think he's best with that, but let's face it. no one likes to see someone they
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care about and it's tough on family members to see family members attacked or under duress. there's a natural instinct to want to react. >> his words are magnified. let's play again, mayor nutter, what he said most recently about bernie sanders saying he exists in a hermetically sealed box on "the view." let me play that one more time. >> i was disappointed in president clinton. i've known him for 25 years and i like him and i respect him. i hope this campaign does not degenerate. >> he's fighting for his wife. >> i understand that. nonthe le nonetheless, let's keep it on the issues. not on personal attacks. >> could these attacks backfire? should he go negative at all? >> i didn't hear the exact thing that president clinton said, but i get the point. i agree with mark certainly. you generally want a positive campaign. hillary is his wife. he's the former president.
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he's one of the best political figures in modern american history. i think that president clinton is smart enough to know what happened back in 2008 being much more disciplined here in 2016, but he's really good. the flip side of that coin is if he was not out on the campaign trail for hillary clinton, we'd be having a different conversation at this table. why isn't the president out? why isn't he doing more for hillary clinton? you're caught in between. he's good and he's really good when he's on his game and keeps things positive. >> he's a very popular ex-president. george w. bush is also very popular. >> that's his brother. this is his wife. >> it's still someone you love dearly. if hillary clinton were not married to bill clinton, would she be as formidable a rival to
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bernie sanders? >> that's a good question. i actually think he's harming for her a couple of reasons. if he wants to advise her privately, that's fine. the problem with bill clinton is once you put yourself in the center, it allows those of us who support bernie to ask if clintons support nafta. it raises the question of glass steigel. many people feel led to the crisis, the financial crisis. you can go along a whole set of issues. unfortunately, hillary clinton gets tied to some of the things that aren't that popular with bill clinton. >> being married to bill clinton, is that positive or a negative for her? >> by the way, you were saying you weren't sure some of the best sanders people were
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attacking hillary clinton. let me come back to this for a second. i think there's a danger he will speak up and say something short because shehe's angry. he's frustrated. he gives credit to the sanders campaign. he's actually a force for changing things inside the campaign. having said that, it's instructive when she became secretary of state in 2009 there were a lot of people wondering the same thing. will he say something that will interfere with her diplomacy? he led a very disciplined life. he's been very careful about what he says. he's personal life has not been an issue. i think the risk is small. is it there? yes. >> mark's point was very important. i think really it does come down to the difference between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. >> there are going to be some
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people that are reassured if bill clinton is in the white house. there'll be some people who won't be. >> you've got to talk about 1999 and 7% black unemployment. you can't talk about -- this is a point that really -- look. debating bill clinton's record -- what about hillary clinton's eight years as a member of the united states senate and four years -- >> actually six years. >> six years as u.s. senator and eight years as the -- yeah. >> she has her own record. >> she has her own record. >> keep it to her record alone. >> yes. >> but if he inserts himself, he run that s that risk. >> all right. thank you. people care about what he has to say, for better or for worse. thanks very much to all of you.
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outfront next, donald trump going positive. yes, i just said that. bernie sanders railing against super pacs, but he still benefits from them. our special report is next. you're looking at a live picture of the debate hall in milwaukee, wisconsin. our countdown to the live debate continues. of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today.
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all right. live pictures of the university of wisconsin on our screen. just about an hour from now h hillary clinton and bernie sanders will be face to face at the podiums. >> donald trump has zero foreign policy experience. negotiating a hotel deal in another country is not foreign policy experience. >> we need a president that knows what he's doing. not talking cheap talk. >> the only way to beat donald trump is to highlight the simple truth of his record. it is not conservative. >> outfront tonight, the national spokeswoman for donald trump's campaign katrina
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pearson. katrina, your response, zero foreign policy experience and talk is cheap. what do you say to the attacks? >> it sounds like some of these republican candidates want hillary clinton if they're focused on foreign experience. he is just a businessman that sees an opportunity for him to give back everything he's acquired during a life experience to make america great again. >> bill, katrina, that's her job to spin this. i want to ask you about the negativity here. there's been a lot of negativity. they're hitting donald trump. donald trump has been dwetweeti some things like ted cruz's campaign was doing sleazy and dishonest things. he decided to go positive. governor john kasich took credit for that change in tone from donald trump. >> donald trump is saying he's going to go positive. i sort of predicted if we could
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show that positive works, might change the tenor of the campaign. all these people that want to go negative, how are you going to sell anything? how are you going to bring people together when all you're going is trashing somebody else? >> you have been no fan of donald trump, but do you think he's actually changing his tune thanks in part to the governor of ohio who has ran a positive campaign? >> no, no. let's watch donald trump saturday. ted cruz saying that donald trump is not a conservative in all kinds of ways he's pro-choice, he uses vulgarity, is that going nothing or just telling the truth about donald trump? they haven't been negative enough. trump has had almost negative ads against him. let's talk about donald trump's business record and his public record, his close friendship with the clintons. >> which they all now deny for mutually beneficial reasons. >> let's look at the wonderful
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photo of the clintons and the trumps. the trumps gave money to hillary clinton. that's all legitimate. those are legitimate things to raise i think. >> but he also gave money to ted cruz. donald trump is a businessman. he's talked about these things from the beginning. the negatives on mr. trump are baked in. they're talking about positions he held almost 20 years ago. they're not talking about the donald trump who he is today or they'd be talking about things for themselves and how they want to make america great again, but the idea is to attack donald trump which has not been successful in the past. donald trump pulled the ad because he does want to run a positive campaign. he wants to move forward with his message to make america great again and the other candidates should do the same. >> donald trump wants to freeze the race where it is because he has one of the first two
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primaries. he is a frontrunner. frontrunners like to freeze the campaign and stop further exposure of people's records. john kasich has done pretty well. he got up to 16% in new hampshire by running a positive campaign. it looks like he would like to be donald trump's vice presidential nominee. >> bill, speaking of john kasich, he said he doesn't want to be anyone's number two. you have tweeted the single most likely ticket is donald trump and john kasich. i know you have no love for donald trump, it sounds like you're accepting he very well may be the republican nominee. what do you think about that ticket? >> if you are second in iowa and new hampshire, you have a pretty good chance to win. he's ahead. i don't think it's by any means done or inevitable. i think he's beatable. my editorial in tomorrow says donald trump is beatable, but
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he's only beatable if you fight him. he's insulted people. he's denigrated people. he's denigrated women. he's used profane language on the stump and other candidates have been intimidated by him. all credit to donald trump. he's a tough guy. he's a tough businessman, but maybe these candidates should step up and fight him. outfront next, bernie sanders showered with donations since his big new hampshire primary win. where is bernie's money coming from? perhaps not what you'd expect. that as we count you down to the big democratic debate here on cnn. your path to retirement... may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. for over 75 years, investors have relied on our disciplined approach to find long term value. so wherever your
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like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. an hour from now, hillary clinton and bernie sanders will take the stage at the university of wisconsin for a crucial debate yew see right here on cnn. this comes as the sanders campaign is bragging, we need a bigger goal. that was after they smashed their own fund-raising goal of $6 million after their big win in new hampshire. sanders is leading hillary clinton in the money race for 2016. you heard me right.
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how is he doing it? tom foreman is outfront with me. that is stunning that he's doing this. where is his money coming from? >> his money, erin, is coming from a source that ought to scare her because it's legislate him stack up money at a faster rate. she's still ahead in the overall race. $114 million. he's about $75 million. but look where the money is coming from. 72% of his money is coming from small donors. people giving less than $200. only a few early in the campaign it rose to $27 per donor. now it's about $34 per donor. it doesn't take a lot of math to realize he can go back to those people again and again and get a whole lot more money at that rate because they are nowhere near the limit of $2,700. on her campaign, she's got a lot of small donors, too, but a lot less. 16% over here. many more in the big donor category. they may have maxed out, and it makes it hard for her to go back
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to them. >> pretty amazing when you show that graphic how clear it is. bernie sanders says i do not have a superpac. i do not want a superpac. technically true but that doesn't mean he's not directly benefiting from superpacs. >> there are pacs out there afl affiliated with his campaign but have raised more than $2 million to help run ads and get people to pay attention to him and hopefully elect bernie sanders. when he keeps saying this, he gives a little false impression because there are people trying to do it. why doesn't clinton jump on him hard and say you're lying about that? because when she does that all he's going to say is let's look at your pac money. $43.4 million pouring into your campaign. the problem for her is if she goes after that too hard, he turns it right back around as he has all along and says you are getting big money. big money interest.
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you are in the pocket of big money and she has to go back on the defense of that when she looks at those numbers. it's a difficult equation for her right now even though she's still technically leading in the money. >> that's is fascinating. tom foreman, thank you very much. next, more of our countdown to the democratic presidential debate that you'll see right here on cnn. want to get their hands on. if they could ever catch you. all across the state the economy is growing,arts today. with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital
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thanks so much for joining us. set your dvr to record "outfront" so you can watch us at any time. and don't forget to catch the pbs "newshour" debate at 9:00 eastern time right here. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. thanks for joining us. an hour from now, bernie sanders and hillary clinton will step on to that stage down there in milwaukee for what is being seen as the first debate of a brand-new primary campaign. for him, the opportunity to show his victory in new hampshire was no fluke in geography or demographics. for her a chance to show it wasn't fatal. and that comes with a complicated, volatile world, tonight's debate will be a chance for voters to see how each candidate sees that world and would deal with it as president. we saw wall street tumble, oil prices tank, new warnings on

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