tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper CNN March 6, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PST
republican revolt. as the campaign conversation reaches new lows -- >> he referred to my hands, if they're small, something else must be small. i guarantee you, there's no problem. i guarantee it. >> -- the stop trump movement gains steam. >> donald trump is a phony, a fraud. he gets a free ride to the white house, and all we get is a lousy hat. >> is mitt romney vying to be the trump alternative? we'll ask him. plus, rubio's game plan. the florida senator's fight for his home turf. >> we will win the state of florida. we will beat donald trump there. >> can it work? my interview with him is next. and flint face-off. hillary clinton and bernie sanders meet in the troubled city tonight for a cnn debate.
>> it is my hope that the american people will look at flint and say never again. >> can sanders get his mojo back in michigan? he'll be here in minutes. plus, the best political minds will be here with insights from the campaign trail. hello, i'm dana bash filling in for jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is tightening up. donald trump took home two more victories last night in kentucky and louisiana, but ted cruz won maine, kansas and more delegates overall than trump. here's where the republican board stands right now. trump still on top with 385 delegates. cruz is second with 298. and marco rubio has 126. and last night trump declared it a two-man race. >> ted is at least moving along okay.
but marco has to get out of the race. has to. because despite what ted said, oh, do i want to run against just ted. that will be easy. >> but rubio says not so fast. he's betting on winning his home state of florida and collecting all 99 of its delegates. still republican voters aren't rushing towards marco rubio. ted cruz was the favorite at this weekend's cpac conference, the biggest gathering of conservative activists in the country. before yesterday's primary and caucuses, i sat down with rubio at cpac. we talked in front of a supportive and vocal crowd. donald trump was supposed to be here this morning. he backed out. i sense that the crowd has an opinion on that. do you? >> yeah. i mean, this is the american conservative union. and so, i mean, it's usually reserved for conservatives. [ cheers and applause ]
but this matters. i mean, look. either the ideas behind conservatism matter or they do not. and if they do not, then it's fine. but i believe they do. it is not enough to say vote for me because i'm angrier and over the top, and i'm going to do and say things no one else is going to do. i get that anger and frustration, i really do. it is not a coincidence that there are a plethora of young conservative leaders in this country in their 40s and 50s, myself, ted cruz, rand paul, scott walker, susana martinez, nikki haley, paul ryan. why? why? why are there so many young conservatives now serving our country? i'll tell you why. because we grew up in the era of reagan. and ronald reagan looked and acted nothing like donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] >> you're stepping up the rhetoric big time against donald trump on the question of whether or not he is a true conservative. you started doing that at cnn's debate last week. you're calling the con artist
and a fraud. if you believe those things, why did you wait until february of 2016 to say so? >> well, a couple reasons why. number one is because for much of this campaign, i've been fighting off other people attacking me, and so that takes a little bit of time, too. and the other is, look, i didn't get into this to beat up on the other candidates. i really didn't. i hoped that voters -- if you had told me a year ago that the front-runner at this stage in the republican campaign would be a supporter of planned parenthood who says he doesn't stand with israel, who says that who has a long record of supporting government-sponsored health care, i would say on what planet would that be the republican front-runner? it's happened. >> i want to put my parent hat on for a second. i'm the mother of a 4-year-old son, and i'm having trouble letting him watch the news because things have gotten so vulgar and so over the top that i don't want him to think that it's okay to act like that. >> right. >> and i'm not alone. i know a lot of people have said that. how do you feel as a father and
a presidential candidate about how low things have gone? >> well, i mean, no, but i'll tell you, this is related to the real question. i am glad you asked it. my kids were with me on the campaign trail a lot from new hampshire, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. every day when i woke up, i was glad they were there not just because they're my kids, but it reminded me of this is what it's about. one of the things you asked me, i don't want us to have a president that we constantly have to be explaining to our kids, look, i know that's what the president did, but you shouldn't do that. i don't want that. [ applause ] we actually had a president like that not long ago. it was bad. >> but just to follow up, but the rhetoric has been -- has been, i mean, i understand you're saying that you are trying to answer him and some of the things that he has been saying, but, you know, i can't explain to my kid about the -- you're talking about hands and things like that. >> donald trump, he might have grown up the way he did with a lot of money and going to
boarding schools. where i grew up, if someone keeps punching someone in the face, eventually someone's going to have to stand up and punch them back. [ cheers and applause ] >> i want to ask you another question from twitter. this is on the supreme court from @saraleeann. do you think president obama should appoint a justice to scotus, the supreme court, prior to the end of his term? why or why not? >> absolutely not. first of all, i agree with joe biden in 1992 when he said we should not be electing -- nominating supreme court justices in an election year. >> so do you think that all candidates now, republican and democrat should pledge not to nominate a supreme court justice in their last year of their term? >> sure. i would do that now, and that, by the way, has been the practice for over 80 years. the only time they want to change or bend the rules is when there's a democrat in office. they're ignoring what joe biden said in '92. this is a lifetime appointment.
you cannot -- unless this person that gets appointed murders someone, it's going to be very difficult to remove them from the court. >> i have another question. it is about something donald trump said, but it's on an important issue, which is torture. you were standing next to him in the debate. you heard what he said on torture, and then he reversed himself, saying that you -- he understands that the united states is bound by laws and treaties and will not order our military or other officials to violate those laws. what do you think of that, and what do you think is the most important position of a president on the issue of torture? >> well, i think the most important issue -- the most important issue -- the most important job of president is to be commander in chief. a commander in chief will never ask the armed forces of the united states to do something that would violate the rules of war, or quite frankly, the internal practices of our military. but i want to be clear about interrogation, okay? we have to understand that this is not about torture. no one here is asking for torture, but you cannot use the same interrogation tech teaks on a terrorist that you do on a criminal. here's why. a criminal, when you are interrogating a criminal, what
you are trying to do is gather evidence for a trial so you can convict them. when you are interrogating a terrorist, what you are trying to gather is information to prevent a future terrorist attack. it's not about evidence for trial. >> in a week and a half, as you well know, is the florida primary, a crucial test for your campaign. governor john kasich said if he doesn't win his home state of ohio, he'll drop out. what will you do if you don't win florida? >> i've never based my campaign on one state, but i can tell you this, we will win the state of florida. we will beat donald trump there the way we beat charlie crist. i have experience at beating people who say who they are -- who don't say who they truly are. i have experience at beating people who portray themselves to be one thing but are actually something else. and you're going to find that out on march 15th in florida. >> one person who is not going to be on the ballot is jeb bush. >> mm-hmm. >> i know that the two of you have spoken. have you asked him for his endorsement? >> yeah, i don't discuss private converasations with anyone. >> would you like to have his endorsement? >> i -- i -- i would like to have as many endorsements as i can get because i want to unify
the party. but suffice it to say that no matter what happens in the campaign, i said throughout the campaign repeatedly that i have tremendous admiration for jeb bush, that he believed he was the greatest governor in florida history, although rick scott's a very good governor, too, and i will always have tremendous affection and respect for him despite the fact that because of a weird quirk of fate, we ended up running for the same office at the same time. i did not run for president to stop jeb bush. i ran for president because i believe america's greatest days lie ahead if we do what needs to be done right now in 2016. >> just one final question. just on a personal level, what has been the most surprising part of this campaign? i mean, it is grueling. obviously you're sitting here with the flu, right? so how have you -- how have you embraced this in a way that maybe you didn't think you would? >> well, there's a lot of surprising parts about this campaign. i told you one of them. i never could have imagined that the front-runner in a republican nomination would be someone that refuses to stand with israel,
defends planned parenthood, you know, all these other positions that donald trump has taken. but that aside, here's the great part about it. i knew this already, but this campaign reminded me of this. america is not a government. america is a nation and people. america is the country where this very morning people got up and went to work or opened their business or volunteered in the community. they're going out about their lives and doing great things irrespective of who the president is going to be or not. our government is messed up, but the american people are as great as they've ever been. what they need now are leaders that give them a chance. and this campaign has confirmed that. >> senator, thank you. >> thank you. >> and coming up, mitt romney says never trump, but why now? an interview with the new face of the stop trump movement is next. here's what i know. donald trump is a phony. a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university.
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romney who laid out a plan to keep trump from reaching the delegates he needs to secure the nomination. >> i vote for marco rubio in florida and for john kasich in ohio and for ted cruz or whichever one of the other two contenders has the best chance of beating mr. trump in a guinn sta given state. >> our gloria bergeer sat down with mitt romney to find out what drove him to speak out. >> i wanted to remain as a neutral umpire, if you will, calling balls and strikes and some fouls, and i've done that along the way. but over the last several weeks, some of the things donald trump has said and done, both on policy as well as temperamental things, have suggested to me i just couldn't wait any longer. >> do you think it's too late, though? >> well, you know, i don't know what impact these things have politically, but i do know that when my grandkids say, what did you do to stop donald trump, i want to be able to say something. i wasn't going to sit on the sidelines till the very end. >> you could potentially drive his supporters into his arms
even more by doing this because you're the symbol of the republican establishment. >> well, you know, i spent my life in business. i didn't get involved in politics until quite late in life. i think everybody that someone is opposed to becomes establishment. the term anti-establishment is a very popular term. so i don't call myself establishment. i don't think others do either that want to -- have the support of fellow republicans. they may say they're mainstream and conservative, but donald trump is not republican in any sense of the word. >> at the debate, the other candidates said that they would support trump if he became the nominee. is there any circumstance under which you would? >> well, i can't imagine supporting donald trump for president or hillary clinton for president, either one. i'll hopefully be able to find a conservative on the ballot who i can vote for. >> did party leaders looking back, and i guess yourself included, misread their own voters in the republican base by betting on the fact that perhaps
donald trump would simply implode of his own free will? >> oh, i don't know about other people. i certainly paid attention to donald trump. i didn't expect him to do so well. >> right. >> but he has tapped into an anger which is very much understood. what he's done with that anger, however, is not to build it and to resolve and high purpose, but instead to take it down a very dark alley, and that, i think, is unfortunate. but i don't think you can write off any candidate. i thought jeb bush would do better than he did. i like jeb a lot, thought he would be able to gain a lot of momentum, but that didn't happen. donald trump has. and at this stage, we say, all right, he could easily become the nominee. probably most likely to be the republican nominee at this point. but i think there's a better choice out there. >> who is it? >> well, marco rubio is the right person in florida. john kasich's the right person -- >> here we go. >> -- in ohio, and ted cruz is right anywhere where he's leading right now or where he's closest to donald trump. >> when are you going to choose one?
>> well, it depends in part on how the process continues. i expect that after march 15th, it may be clearer who is going to be the, if you will, the person who opposes donald trump most effectively. and so i would anticipate endorsing at that time. but let's say all three are doing about the same. >> right. then what? >> then i'd probably, again, encourage who's doing best in a particular state to get the support there and do that state by state, and that would lead to an open convention where you'd see the delegates elected, make the final decision. >> so this contested convention, is this a scenario that you're actively looking at? >> oh, i think it's a realistic scenario. a lot of people have thought that for some time. >> likely? likely? >> you know, i think it's more likely than not that we will have a nominee before the convention that's donald trump. i think he has a much stronger shot of getting the 1237 delegates than not. but, you know, the debate last night was not good for donald trump.
he showed that he cracks under pressure. and i think that may begin to open the door for some people who are looking for a different path. >> are you referring to a contested convention which has a first ballot, then people are unbound after that rkt second ballot? what are you talking about within the normal bounds there? >> well, i'm going to begin by campaigning for people who i believe in and encouraging people to vote for folks who i think would be a better nominee than donald trump. but at a convention, sure, i'd be one of the people encouraging delegates to get behind someone who i thought could win in november. >> if there is a contested convention, would you allow your name to be put into nomination? >> that's not going to happen. what's going to happen in a contested convention is that people who are running for president and who have delegates are going to be able to battle with one another. >> but would you allow it? >> i'm not going to even go there. >> i have to say that you were someone who sought his endorsement in 2012 -- i don't have to remind you about that -- and then you tweeted that you
sort of regretted that and that you said that four years ago, quote, the things he says now about the kkk, muslims, mexicans, disabled, i would not have accepted his endorsement. but when he endorsed you, he was kind of the godfather of the obama birther movement, wasn't he? i mean, wasn't that bad enough? >> well, no i think that's a very different than calling mexicans rapists, than saying that muslims are not going to be allowed into the country as immigrants, that mocking a disabled reporter, going after women and saying oh, she asks tough questions because she was in her menstrual cycle is highly offensive. i said i disagreed with him. there are political views about one another where we're going to disagree, but what he has said during this campaign, that george w. bush is a liar, that john mccain isn't a hero. i mean, he said some things that are completely totally
outrageous. >> well, i think obama would think it was offensive, that, you know, that trump was saying he wasn't bohn here. >> the funny thing about donald trump's whole birther thing -- and i said this to him -- it wouldn't have made no difference. barack obama's mother was american. it was a whole ridiculous thing that donald trump was pursuing and is i think, characteristic of what you see now. i mean, last night when he said, look, he's not just for waterboarding, which is illegal, but he wants to do more than waterboarding, says which is torture. and he's going to tell the troops to do it, and they're going to do it. well, the troops, then, would be guilty of crimes, and he would be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. really? is that where we're going to go in this country? it's absolutely -- he's saying things which get people excited but which are detached from reality. >> cnn has done a report which says that he is now going to, for a general election, should he become the nominee, start raising money. >> it's amazing, isn't it, that all during the primary, he has criticized his opponents by saying oh, they're raising money
from folks, and they're going to have to respond to and report to those folks, and he's self-funding. well, now we learned no, he's not really planning on self-funding. he's only been loaning money to his campaign which he can get back if he's the general nominee, general election nominee. it's a form of hypocrisy that i think people will find shocking. >> do you regret you didn't run? >> no. as i looked at that stage last night and i spoke with my wife, she's on this side of the country, we talked by phone, she said, aren't you glad you're not up there with the kinds of things that are being said? it's so degrading, so demeaning. mr. trump has taken this campaign in a very deep gutter. and i hope somehow we're able to come out of that gutter. >> gloria, i'm curious, you being in the room sitting across from him, what was his demeanor? what do you think really is driving him here? >> at this point the race is so unclear, and the kkk exchange with jake tapper, so motivated him that he was champing at the bit to get in it again.
>> do you think that he understands the current 2016 republican electorate? do you think he gets the anger out there? >> he says, i understand the anger, but donald trump needs to channel it in a different way. and he also pushed back on me at one point when i asked him, but you're a member of the establishment. he sort of pushed back and said, no, i'm a conservative. >> mm-hmm. >> but i do think that there's a part of him -- and this is very personal -- he said, i can't stand on the sidelines anymore. and if you know mitt romney, his father, in 1964, went on the floor of that convention and railed against barry goldwater. and i asked him about it as we were chatting. and he said, well, you know, my father's a great role model. and i think that there is something in the back of his head that said if i don't speak out now against donald trump, what am i going to be able to tell my kids and my grandkids, you know? it's permanent for him. >> and that's what he's telling his friends as well. gloria, great interview.
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm dana bash in for jake tapper. hillary clinton's campaign says the math makes it nearly impossible for bernie sanders to win the democratic nomination, even though two of three states voting yesterday said they want a sanders revolution, clinton won the most delegates of the night. but sanders says he won't be deterred, and he's already looking ahead to the general
election matchup with donald trump. >> i just want to say this about electability for a start. polls go up and down. but almost all of the national polls and state polls that are putting me up against donald trump has us winning and winning big. >> but first, bernie sanders has to beat hillary clinton who he will debate tonight right here on cnn. and senator sanders is joining me now. senator, thank you so much. congratulations on your wins last night. i want to ask, though, about -- >> thank you. >> you're welcome -- about a pattern emerging including last night. you tend to win states that are mostly white, and hillary clinton wins in states with large minority populations. what are you going to do in tonight's debate on cnn in flint, michigan, to change that dynamic? >> well, for a start, dana, what we are seeing in many cases is not just a racial divide but a generational divide. we are doing better and better with younger people whether
they're black, latino or white. our numbers are getting better and better in general, our numbers are getting better. the truth is, we have for the done well in the deep south. but i am absolutely certain that our numbers will continue to get better. and what we have done, based on yesterday, at this point, we have now won seven primaries and caucuses all across this country, all with double-digit victories. we won with 67% of the vote in kansas. if the turnout is high in maine today, i think we have a good chance of winning there as well. so i think we're showing strength all across this country. and as the blurb you just played showed, we are doing better against trump than hillary clinton is. i think there was a poll that came out today having us beat trump in michigan by 22 points. so if democrats want the strongest candidate to defeat trump, i think you're looking at him. >> now, senator, you have pr promised to fight all the way till the convention in july. does that pledge hold even if
secretary clinton reaches the 2,083 delegates needed to clinch the democratic nomination before that? >> dana, when i started this campaign, i was at 3% in the polls, 3%. people considered us to be a fringe campaign. we have made enormous progress over the last ten months. we have now 5 million individual contributions, campaign contributions. we don't have a super pac. berniesanders.com is doing fantastically well in raising money from ordinary americans. we are going to say in this campaign to the convention in july. every state has the right to vote for the candidate of their choice. >> but senator -- >> we believe we have a path -- yeah, go ahead. i'm sorry. >> no, senator, but will you do that even if secretary clinton gets the number of delegates needed in the contests before the convention? >> dana, you are -- you are speculating. i don't think that's going to
happen. i think that we have a lot of strength in very large states all across this country. i think we're going to do very well in new york state. i think we have a good chance of winning throughout the west coast in california, state of washington, oregon. i think our message of a corrupt campaign finance system which has to be changed, a rigged economy where almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1%, that is resonating all over this country. so i don't want to speculate as to what happens tomorrow or three weeks from now. we think we have momentum, and we think we're going to do just fine. >> you just speculated that you're going to win those contests, but i'll let you go on that one. you have talked about the enthusiasm behind your campaign. and we certainly see it in your rallies. but this year it is republicans who are seeing record turnout. on super tuesday, more than 2.5 million more votes were cast in republican contests than the democratic side. so should democrats be concerned
about an enthusiasm gap heading into november? >> no, i don't think so. i really don't think so. i think just yesterday in kansas, there was a record-breaking turnout. i believe in colorado on tuesday, super tuesday, there was a record-breaking turnout. massachusetts, the turnout was very, very high. in iowa, the turnout was high. i think one of the goals of our campaign is to revitalize american democracy, to make sure that working people and young people know that when they participate in the political process, they have real power that, in fact, we can take on and defeat the billionaire class. so i don't agree with you. i think within the democratic primaries, not in every instance, but in many of the states, we are seeing our numbers higher than in 2008 when barack obama ran an unbelievable campaign, and his numbers were off the charts. in some states, we're actually seeing higher turnouts than in 2008. >> for, i want to ask you about something that was in the news
this week. a former hillary clinton staffer who helped set up her private e-mail server accepted immunity and will talk to federal investigators. i know you've said that the american people are sick about hearing about secretary clinton's e-mails, but does this development concern you? >> well, as i have said, dana, we are going to focus on the issues facing the american middle class, and it would be a good idea every now and then if the media did that as well. middle class in this country is disappearing. we have massive income and wealth inequality, got millions of people trying to make it on $12,000 a year, social security, we're trying to increase those benefits. so my focus right now is on the issues that concern the young people who are paying outrageously high student debt, working people, senior citizens, veterans, those are the issues that i will focus on. >> now, you talk about focusing on the middle class. certainly you're talking about it, hillary clinton is talking about it, but she also said something about your approach to that, that she doesn't think
adds up this week. take a listen. >> anyone running for president owes it to you to come up with real ideas, not an ideology, not an old set of talking points, but a credible strategy designed for the world we live in now. >> she's basically saying you're living in fantasyland, senator. >> yeah, i guess. i believe that the united states should join every other industrialized country on earth in guaranteeing health care to all people. is that fantasy? if canada can do it, the uk can do it, france can do it, you know what? i don't think it's fantasy to that we can do it in the united states. is it fantasy to say that our young people should be able to go to college regardless of their income as we establish free tuition at public colleges and universities? well, germany has that, scanned five ya has that, countries all over the world have that.
is it fantasy to that i that we should end the obscene level of income inequality with the 20th wealthiest in the country, all of that may be fantasy to the ruling class and the big-money interests in this country. i don't think that's fantasy to the working people in this country who work longer hours for lower wages who are tired of establishment politics and establishment economics. every proposal that we have brought forth we pay for. we are going to save in terms of health care, middle-class families, thousands of dollars a year on their health care bills. yeah, maybe the drug companies don't like it and the insurance companies don't like it. i think the american people do like it. i think we're going to change our trade policies. secretary clinton has supported almost every one of these disastrous trade agreements. nafta, pntr with china which have cost us millions of decent-paying jobs. companies shut down, moved to china, i have opposed all of them. this is not fantasy. this is reality. we've got to stand up for the middle class. >> senator, i am sure all of those topics will be brought up
tonight when you are going to face off with hillary clinton on the debate stage in flint, michigan, right here on cnn, and we look forward to that. and thank you for joining me this morning. >> thank you, dana. and last night's super saturday races left republicans with a split decision. what does it mean for the dramatic dpchgop race for the w house? >> you're talking about millions and millions of people, and we have a dynamic party. and as a party, we should come together and stop this foolishness. ess expert? sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in credits to help you switch to at&t.
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>> it was a great moment to say. no, it was fine, you know. >> quite a moment indeed. racy talk about hand size dominated the week into last night's super saturday races. let's talk about that and a lot more with democratic congressman joaquin castro, a hillary clinton supporter. republican operative hogan gidly, cnn commentator and liberal activist salary cone and conservative radio talk host, hugh hewitt. they don't teach us that in journalism school. i want to start with you, hugh. let's look at last night's results. it was a big day for ted cruz. is it a two-man race right now, do you think? >> no. >> or is there still time for kasich or rubio to come back if had. >> ted cruz had the best day of his campaign. he clearly got the momentum, and he built off of the yorktown speech that he gave about defense in two great debates and he's had a terrific run. so he put a bad patch behind
him. it's not a two-person race. it's going to, i think, an open convention. and i think after the death of justice scalia, everybody got very serious in the republican party and realized that the presidency means the supreme court, and that the shift that's under way that mitt romney accelerated with a very beautifully crafted speech and i thought your interview with him reemphasized with him, has framed this issue of not trump. and within the not trump camp, there is a lot of maneuvering for that role and it will not work itself out, i think, until cleveland. >> and hogan, do you agree with hugh, and also, i just wonder what you make of the establishment, big donors, giving finally to super pacs to try to defeat trump, mitt romney coming out, is this a sign that there is even more of a divide between the grass roots and the establishment? >> i think so. and i think it's grown. i mean, hugh touched on some of these points, but he's right. look, over the course of this election, the difference between 2008 and 2012 and now is just the anger that exists. and i think the rnc and dnc
frankly chose to ignore or refuse to acknowledge the level of anger. and everybody running for office in the last decade, starting with george w. bush, is why we have the tea party, because of the excessive spending of bush. but ever since then, campaigns basically said the other side's the devil. and if they get elected, america is going to fall into ruin. and this language, while it's cheap to deliver, the result is quite expensive. it's a divided electorate that can't get behind one person. they're angrier than ever, nastier than ever. they're more insulting and happy to see the insults come from candidates. >> and sally, you see the anger on the other side of the aisle, too. i mean, it's obviously different when it comes to the language, but bernie sanders is running. you just heard him on the fact that people feel like they have been left out. >> yeah, and on a certain level initially, i thought, oh, look, we have a possibility for a political realignment in this country instead of left/right, we could have a sort of populist versus establishment or elite
movement. but that's breaking apart because there's a really important difference between the kind of anger of sanders supporters and the kind of anger of trump and arguably cruz supporters as well. you know, bernie's voters are angry because washington isn't doing enough to help everyone in this country. and trump supporters are angry because government is including too many people in the promise of this country, and they want to push people out of the american dream. two different propositions. >> let me just make a point also about what hugh said. i think that if donald trump gets to the convention and he's far ahead of everybody else but hasn't received a majority of delegates, i don't think republicans will stand up to him at the convention. i think that he'll be the nominee. i think that they will make some ba backroom deal to appoint his vice president or name his vice president and name part of his cabinet. >> you just gave me the perfect segue to go to my next question, which is about a contested convention because there are differences, as you can imagine, within the republican field. listen to this.
>> look, we're going to win ohio. so what's going to be interesting is we're probably going to end up in a brokered convention. >> in my view of brokered convention, ain't gonna happen. makers tried to steal the - nomination from the people, i think it would be a disaster. it would cause a revolt. >> i agree with ted cruz on that, i guess. i just think there would be such an outcry, a lot of those folks would end up staying home in november or, you know, some of them as a protest maybe even voting for the democratic candidate. >> congressman, i'm switzerland, but if you don't arrive with 1,237 deldelegates, it's not stolen. that's why there are convention rules and it could be someone not named rubio, kasich, trump. >> do you really think they would go for that, hogan? >> i think anyone who comes out of that convention will beat hoil who has 104 classified e-mails on her server. whoever comes out of the
convention will beat hillary clinton. >> what if it's mitt romney? >> it's not going to be mitt romney. but the revolt of the grass roots, i know it won't be stolen because we do have rules. we are a party, i understand that. but the perception will be that it's been stolen. if that's the case, you think people are angry now? you wait until that floor fight and wait till it's over, and i think the result is they won't go vote for mohillary clinton, t they will stay home and that's what's going to hurt us. >> let's quickly switch to the democratic side. you heard congressman castro, you support hillary clinton. you heard bernie sanders basically not say, okay, i will step out if she gets the number of delegates and superdelegates needed. >> no, i mean, i think there isn't anybody, probably republican or democrat, who hasn't been impressed by bernie sanders' campaign and what he's been able to do. and it has been a positive force both for the democratic party and i think for the country, but i also think that more and more the writing's on the wall. even yesterday, she picked up about seven or eight more
delegates than he did, if you count the superdelegates, she's about halfway there. so i do think that she'll be the nominee. and i think that she'll be a strong general election candidate. >> i mean, i think we mostly agree on this one. look, bernie sanders never got into this race to win. and they'll say otherwise. but the truth is no one expected him to do this well. his point was to push a set of issues and a set of conversations -- >> so he's a message candidate. he's not a real candidate? >> i'm saying he's already won. this -- the fact that he's doing this well is icing on the cake. and i think his supporters want to see him keep going. >> but couldn't he damage hillary clinton -- >> he is making her a candidate. >> no, he's not, but -- he has not raised his -- her biggest vulnerability, which is she endangered the national security. he refuses to bring that up. >> because he wants to -- he refuses to do it because unlike the republicans who want to attack her for everything possible, he wants to talk about substance. he has kept her on substance. he has made her more accountable to the populists on both sides of the party.
>> ten seconds. >> also it's been settled by the congress. congress has looked into it, the justice department has looked into it, and they've cleared her. >> justice department is looking into it. >> but she's not the subject of it. >> she's been cleared? i missed that headline. >> we've got to go. we're going to have this conversation for a lot of months. believe me. thank you very much, all of you. and after the break, it was the most famous debate in modern history, but what really happened backstage. it's this week's state of the cartoonian. was engineered... ...to help sense danger before you do. because when you live to innovate, you innovate to live. the all-new audi q7. a higher form of intelligence has arrived.
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centerpiece of tonight's premiere of "race to the white house" a new cnn series documenting most memorable presidential contests of all time. jake shares the backstory of the famous debate between richard nixon and john kennedy in this week's "state of the cartoonian." ♪ >> good-bye, may berry, hello, camelot. in 1960, cbs bumped the beloved "andy griffith show" to make room for the very first broad cat of the presidential debate. >> the democratic candidate, senator john f. kennedy. >> freedom in the next generation, that's the great issue. >> vice president richard nixon. >> i subscribe completely spirit senator kennedy expressed. >> reporter: arguing over the civil union and civil rights but best remembered not for what was said but how the candidates
looked. legendary producer don huet recalls talking to the candidates. >> i said do you want makeup? kennedy, campaigning on a open convertible looking tan and fit, this guys and i amatinee idol, he said, no. next thing, do you want makeup? having heard kennedy say no, he said no but he came out, i looked at him on camera and he looked like death warmed over. >> reporter: how they looked impacted voters. here's how bob dole remembers it. >> listening to it on the radio and i thought nixon was doing a great job and saw the tv clips the next morning, the guy wsick didn't look well. kennedy was young, articulate, wiped him out. >> reporter: historians say the debate forever changed politics and not everyone thought that was a good thing. >> and tonight on cnn, of course, is the democratic debate, live from flint, michigan. hillary clinton and bernie sanders will face off and voters from flint, suffering through
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this is "gps" the global publ publpub square. welcome. i'm fareed zakaria. start today's show wit the american campaign. how did trump succeed? does his success reveal a problem in the republican party or has he tapped into something important and deep about the country? ♪ sing women >> i will talk to the waunl's bret stephens and "the new york times" paul krugman who will