tv Americas Choice 2016 WI Primary CNN April 5, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
it's going to be critical at the top on the hour. we're going to watch once the polls close. we'll see what we can project if anything. that's coming up. we're also going to be releasing the results of our exit polls. stand by for all of this. we got a key race alert. we're not able to make any projections right now, but here are the results based on the cnn exit poll information. remember, this is an estimate according to our exit poll results, ted cruz has the lead, a significant lead, 47%. donald trump at 36%. john kasich 14%. remember, this is the result of our exit polling. questions that we asked as voters were going in. let's take a look at the democratic side right now. here are the results of the exit polls. a significant lead for bernie sanders. remember, this is an estimate. 55% for bernie sanders. 44% for hillary clinton. remember, these are exit polls. they are based on estimates, based on our early survey of voters as they left their polling locations. the final outcome may be
different. we can expect those numbers to change throughout the night. remember, these are exit polls. to give us an indication of where this may be heading. jake? >> all right. wolf, thanks so much. let's go to our reporters in the field. sunlen serfaty at cruz headquarters. sunlen, tell us what the mood is there. obviously no concrete results yet, but a lot of people expecting cruz will have a good night. >> reporter: that's right, jake. and certainly here at cruz campaign headquarters for the night, the crowd is very excited. based on these early exit polls and certainly there is confidence coming tonight from the cruz campaign. a cruz campaign official tells me that the theme of the speech that senator cruz will deliver here later tonight will be a speech they say will be turning point and according to excerpts provided to cnn that senator cruz will call this a rallying cry and he will really make a very clear pivot toward the general election in his speech here tonight. he will say, hillary, get ready, here we come. jake? >> all right.
sunlen serfaty at cruz headquarters. let's go to laramie, wyoming, we find brianna keilar with the sanders campaign. brianna, bernie sanders, himself, setting high expectations in the state of wisconsin saying that if they win there then they can win new york then they can win the nomination. >> reporter: that's right. he's been talking a big game and really trying to use wisconsin as a spring board in addition to these past wins that he's had here over the last few weeks. in order to move toward these bigger states. he's here in wyoming where democrats are going to caucus on saturday trying to project that momentum. with a rally here at the university of wyoming actually just a stone's throw away from the dick and lynne cheney plaza here on campus. there is a narrative that is confronting the sanders campaign going into tonight which they expect to be a good big night for them. it was an unwelcome narrative. a "new york times" story that was published over the weekend where you saw jane sanders,
bernie's wife, and his top aides talking about the shortcomings of the campaign. it was described, jake, by some people as a bit of a postmortem, perhaps a confrontation by the candidate and his wife and top aides that they could lose this. i just did speak to a top aide for sanders and he said that is absolutely not the case, that they were just being straightforward about some of the challenges they have had strategically and jeff weaver, the campaign manager for bernie sanders insisting he's going to take this all the way to the convention still. >> all right. brianna keilar in laramie, wyoming, with the sanders campaign. bernie sanders already looking ahead to the next contest. normally a candidate does that if he or she doesn't think he's going to have a good night, but the early indication is that sanders might have a good night tonight. >> right. you know, we talked a little bit about earlier about on the republican side that wisconsin is more tailor-made for ted cruz than donald trump. well if you look at the history so far in 2016 of the democratic
primary contests, caucuses and primaries, this is tailor-made for bernie sanders because it is predominantly white. there aren't that many urban areas and the ones that are urban are huge college towns like madison. so, you know, even talking to some hillary clinton aides in brooklyn at their headquarters tonight, i mean, you know, i don't think it was lowering expectations. they genuinely are kind of not expecting to do that well in wisconsin. >> wisconsin also a long history of progressive politics. fighting bob, that was his home state. another thing that's interesting about the sanders campaign is that they are not unabashedly saying that their plan is to deny hillary clinton the number of delegates that she needs to clinch the nomination before the convention then they will go to the convention and make the argument and get superdelegates to switch their votes going to people like, for instance, senator al franken who is a clinton supporter from the state
of minnesota. a state that sanders won. >> that's right. >> make the argument, hey, you should be supporting sanders because sanders won the minnesota caucuses. >> that certainly is their strategy, it's what they're saying. it's not analogous to the republican side where it's much more doable and even likely to ke donald trump the front runner from getting the number of delegates before the convention. it's possible but not probable. you know what, it doesn't matter because bernie sanders has the energy. he's got the money that keeps coming in, the small dollar amounts we've been talking about. if he wants to stay in, there's no reason he can't. >> it's like christmas in the summer for political reporters, anderson. the prospect of not just one, but possibly two contested conventions. >> yeah. it's going to be an exciting summer no doubt about it. david axelrod, back in 2008, you saw delegates flipping, superdelegates flipping from hillary clinton to your candidate, barack obama. how difficult is that process? >> well, obama was leading for much of that race so they were
flipping to the front-runner and they were flipping to a candidate who had inspired a great movement, particularly within the base of the party among african-americans, among progressives and so on. so it was -- the pressure to switch was great. i don't see the same impetus here and as dana mentioned, or perhaps it was brianna, the piece over the weekend in the paper in which the sanders campaign was engaging in all these la mantations about what might have been is a clear sign that they might understand -- they might have this idea they can deny her the delegates and go to the convention and get the superdelegate. it sounds more to me like a prayer than a plan at this point. >> yeah, i agree. look, i think there's no reason for them to give up. hillary clinton in 2008, i think it was june, before she decided to hang it up. >> do you think they're doing damage to hillary clinton? >> i actually -- this race has gotten a little nastier than it's been in the past.
i think that bernie sanders has gotten under hillary clinton's skin a bit, but i believe that hillary clinton is a better candidate because of bernie sanders. i think she's actually more in touch with the base of the democratic party than she was starting this campaign because of bernie sanders. and i think it all depends how they end up and whether they -- >> let's check in next -- >> and whether they put their arms up -- >> her shifting positions to get closer to bernie sanders, does that help her in a general election assuming if she is, in fact, the democratic candidate? >> you know, i think she has decided to go all in with the obama coalition and that's a coalition that is much more progressive, it's certainly a diverse coalition and you can see her all along obviously trying to make overtures to the different parts of that coalition, african-americans, latinos, women. so she is certainly going in all in that. i think for sanders, this argument that he's going to be able to switch superdelegates is hard and it's partly hard
because he hasn't been a democrat, right? and you hear hillary clinton talks about that. she says, you know, i've been a democrat all my life -- all my adult life because she had a stint as a goldwater girl when she was 17 or 128. t you hear from democrats, local party leaders, he's raising a ton of money, $44 million last go around. he isn't trying to build the party in the way hillary clinton is. >> their theory is if they beat her primary after primary, beat her like a drum and show her to be vulnerable, these superdelegates will shift because they'll have made the case that she can't win. i don't think that they made the case at this point convincingly to democrats that he would be a stronger candidate than she in the general election. >> i think he's been hurt tonight in an issue that will emerge in the next couple of days. we were discussing it privately a few moments ago and that is that the transcript of an interview that he did with the "new york daily news" that's now
getting a lot of circulation and i'm sure one wolf blitzer will be using that during the debate as question fodder in the same way that donald trump was harmed for what he said behind closed doors with the "washington post" and people got a look at that transcript and said, you know, there's no there, there. similarly bernie really didn't have answers to substantive questions that were put to him that i think are going to be problemat problematic. >> michael, on that point, hillary clinton copied and pasted the entirety of that interview in the "new york daily news" and is sending it now out in an e-mail as a fund-raiser. >> i think paul begala made a christmas card out of it actually. >> how many -- >> you're actually sending out in april. >> you know, some of it is surprising because the bulk of the beginning of the interview is about bernie's central campaign proposal to break up the banks and yet he stumbled on how to do it. in defense of bernie sanders, this is a grueling process. we all -- they all are, they're all tired. i'm not denigrating anybody.
you can have those kind of mistakes. that's why this debate as michael points out will be so important. that's the time he can do that cleanup. nobody doubts bernie is a smart guy. i suspect some of it might have been fatigue. >> it does run to the narrative that bernie is pie in the sky, an ideologue without a lot of substance, without a lot of ideas. hillary clinton talks about this is the time for practicality, ready on day one, someone who knows how to connect the dots, gets done the things they say they're going to get done. >> i think bernie sanders has run a splendid campaign. >> i agree. >> but when you go into new york city and go to an editorial board, shouldn't someone say, hey, maybe we better have an answer because they're likely to ask about this bank thing which is the centerpiece of his campaign. that's the problem. centerpiece. >> the spring fling is over. >> when you have the sort of outsider candidates, not that sanders hasn't been in congress forever, it's the same problem. you kind of run your own campaign, you think you know you don't need your consultants to tell you what to do.
i think sanders runs very much, very much that way etven though he has great consultants running with him. i want to ask donna brazile the question we've been talking art because you are, i've heard, a superdelegate. >> she's the most super of all superdelegates. >> when we talk about what makes a superdelegate change his mind, as happened in 2008, could bernie sanders, you know, turn around hundreds of superdelegates? >> i have to tell you this, throughout 2008, both candidate obama as well as candidate hillary clinton hoarded superdelegates. >> how does that work, for viewers who don't follow this closely. >> it's a phone call. >> phone call, dinner. out to a play, go see "hamilton"? >> anderson, we have fine taste, but guess what, we're democrats. >> okay. >> there's no question that candidate obama went across america in 2006 and campaigned for just about everybody running
for office. house, senate, democrats, et cetera. governors. bernie sanders has not done it. that's the case that hillary clinton made the other day. she said i've been a lifelong democrat, i've been helping raise money for the party, i've been helping to recruit candidates. she was back in 2003, she was pushing then-state senator barack obama. so she has a history in courting the kind of people who are so-called, you know, unpledged delegates to the convention. we're only 14% of the total 14.9%, so i better be precise. but senator sanders' people are courting after the fact, not before. >> we're just getting exit polls in that i want jake to take a look at then we're going to come back to this discussion. jake? >> thanks, anderson. that's right. let's bring back our political director david chalian in the cnn election center. david, up of the things we look for in those exit polls is what are the voters looking for in terms of the candidate qualities? with democrats and republicans, tell us what the voters who went
to the polls today in the badger state had on their mind. >> yeah, we're taking a look at the most important issues that voters told us they were looking for. jake. on the democratic side, take a look at this, the most important candidate quality was honest and trustworthiness. the most important of four different qualities tested. of course, bernie sanders is winning that category huge as he has done throughout this nomination season. 82%-16%. take a look at having the right experience. 27% of voters overall in the democratic primary were looking for a candidate with the right experience. clinton wins those voters big. 85%-14%. but more voters were looking for an honest and trustworthy candidate. on the republican side, voters were looking for a candidate who shares my values and clearly ted cruz is dominating that category. 64% for cruz. 22% for kasich. 11% for trump down in third place on shares my values. and then take a look at can bring needed change. also about a third of the electorate was looking for a
change agent and trump, he edges cruz there, but he does not win it going away. he wins 44% of those voters to ted cruz's 42%, to john kasich's 12%. so you can see with a third of the republican electorate looking for shares my values going overwhelmingly for cruz and a third of the republican electorate looking for a change agent but trump and cruz are splitting those. these are numbers that the cruz campaign is clearly going to feel are in their favor tonight. >> david chalian, thanks so much. dana bash, we've seen this play out throughout the primary season. these staggeringly lopsided numbers when it comes to who do you think is honest and trustworthy? almost always overwhelmingly for sanders. and who do you think has the right experience almost always overwhelmingly for clinton. >> it really is stunning, and it was really only the places where hillary clinton did remarkably well that that was even close to being in balance or maybe even the flip side, for example, where people thought that she was honest and trustworthy more
so or at least as much as bernie sanders. and, you know, as we've been talking about, that issue is her achilles' heel with republicans, they hope, and perhaps with independents. so if she does go on to get the nomination, the fact that she's rating so poorly with her own party, people at least voting in the democratic primary, it's not exactly a big news flash. >> yeah, i know. she, herself has said in interviews that she knows she has work to do when it comes to voters, when it comes to how they regard her in terms of her trustworthiness. in terms of the republicans, what's really remarkable about this is donald trump, i think it's fair to say, even though ted cruz has been a thorn in the side of the republican establishment since he arrived here in washington, i think it's fair to say that donald trump has really been the one who has blown everything out of the water in terms of the political rules. it's basically a wash on can bring needed change. this is a quality normally donald trump does well in. 44% for trump. 42% for cruz. >> wisconsin, we were talking
about the governor, scott walker. this is an electorate who understands the power of pushing for change because scott walker was the first and only governor to survive a recall in the country. i believe in history. and it's because he made a lot of people very angry, but he also made a lot of people very happy because he pushed for change. so, you know, this is a well-informed electorate but also this is in their recent history, the understanding of this phenomenon. >> recent poll had scott walker with an 80% approval rating among likely republican voters today. wolf? >> probably going to help cruz, walker endorsed cruz. we're waiting for the first results to come in. we have not yet withbeen able t make projections. the exit polls do show ted cruz ahead. the exit polls also show bernie sanders ahead. those are estimates. stand by. we're getting the first results when we come back.
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take a look at this. these are the first numbers that have actually come in. very, very early. take a look. 2% of the vote is in on the republican side. ted cruz got a commanding lead. very early. 53.1%. trump at 31.1%. 13.7% for john kasich. very early, though. just want to caution everyone. lots of votes outstanding. on the democratic side, also very early. only 1% of the vote is in, but bernie sanders taking a lead, 55 55.6% to hillary clinton 44 president.2%. a lead of 1,500 votes. that, still, got to stress it, very, very early. jake, you're getting new information from our political director david chalian. >> that's right. david chalian, our political director is at the decision desk. david, one of the things we've heard from the candidates this year, i think think we've had a race where candidates are citing poll numbers as much as we have this election season, whether it's bernie sanders or donald trump or john kasich. they're always talking about who will do better against the nominee. the potential nominee of the other party.
now wisconsin is a critical battleground state. how the candidates might do against the perspective presumptive nominee on the other side, that could matter. what are the exit polls saying there? >> yeah, it wasn't that long ago, jake, that wisconsin was one of the closest races in presidential elections, 2000, 2004. we asked republican primary voters today if the race was between trump and clinton, take a look at this. you see that 62% of republican voters would vote for donald trump. 10% would vote for hillary clinton. now, obviously these are republican primary voters. that number shouldn't surprise anyone. that's not what the actual wisconsin vote would look like in november. but look at that third number there. 17% of wisconsin republican primary voters would be looking for a third party. 8% say they wouldn't vote. so that is a warning sign for republicans and it's not just a warning sign for donald trump. take a look at the clinton and cruz matchup. it's about the same. he gets 66% of these republicans say they would vote for him in
november. 6% for hillary clinton. 18% looking for a third party. 6% not voting. so whether the nominee is either trump or cruz, the two leading candidates right now, they will have some work to do in battleground wisconsin to bring some of those folks who have voting in the republican primary today away from the notion of wanting a third party or not voting and into their camp. >> fascinating. david chalian, thanks so much. dana, donald trump the last time this came up, i believe it was last friday, once again he left the door open to a possible third-party run if, in his view, the republican national committee doesn't treat him fairly, doesn't treat him right. what that exactly means, we don't know. it could be that if he doesn't get the nomination, even if he doesn't get 1,237 delegates, that will be in his view considered not being treated fairly and he might bolt and possibly run as a third-party candidate although we should caution he still would probably be the republican nominee. >> that's right, and also if he does decide to be a third-party
candidate, as we get to that date on the calendar in july, it's a lot harder to register that way. you'd have to sign on to an existing party. that's going to be on the ballots. which is not impossible but harder to do. the point that you were making with david about, you know, that wisconsin had been in the general election back in 2004, pretty competitive. i remember covering george w. bush spending a lot of time in wisconsin, but it's not that surprising that hillary clinton or bernie sanders would do so well against a republican because a republican hasn't won there since reagan in 1984. thought they came close, karl rove was at george w. bush headquarters was chomping at the bit to get it but never got it. >> although he knew how to pronounce the name of the field where the green bay packers play and not john kerry. >> not waukesha. >> as you might remember. anders anderson? >> small percentage of the vote in. seeing sanders and cruz with a lead, but again, very small
number of votes actually in, still to be counted, still to be watched. michael smerconish, in terms of a convincing lead, a convincing win, how important is that -- how important is the actual percentage for cruz and for sanders or is a win a win and that enough? >> i think it's more significant for bernie sanders because i think the argument that sanders needs to make is that he's winning huge in these next several states so that he can make a compelling argument that the superdelegates need to reconsider exactly where they are. and i want to say something about the superdelegates because i think that their function has been much maligned in this process. people are looking at them and saying why do they exist? they exist for good reason. they exist to avert a blowout and frankly i've heard from a number of republicans in this cycle who are not supportive of donald trump that they wish they had the superdelegate influence that the ds have to try and avert a catastrophe that they think is coming in a general because of some of the numbers that david chalian just put on the board. >> interesting. nia? >> you know, i think if you look back, obama was obviously able
to win this state huge back in 2008. won by i think 17 points. and i think the template for bernie sanders has to be going forward what hillary clinton was able to do throughout the south. i mean, she was able to win 70%-30%, 80%-20% in blowout margin victory. came away netting 75, 100 delegates sometimes over bernie sanders in narrow wins he's been able to put together in states like michigan and even in some of the smaller caucus states. just isn't enough to sustain him. so he's got to figure out, you know, can he do what hillary clinton habeen able to do and really going to carry her through going forward? >> you know, i think the numbers, though, also matter for cruz because first of all, he'd like to have such a blowout that he wins all 42 of the delegates. >> right. >> in the state of wisconsin. and if you're talking about a potential contested convention, you're counting delegates. >> right. >> so you get 18 delegates by winning statewide and the rest are distributed by congressional district. what trump wants to do is
mitigate the damage if he were to lose by winning a few of those congressional districts. there are three delegates -- not to get too wonky -- per congressional district that he would like to be able to say that he comes out of tonight with six or nine delegates and kind of, you know, holds cruz back from claiming a total blowout victory and winning them all. >> ted cruz has a better in louisiana had a better ground game in terms of reaching out to delegates than donald trump did. even though donald trump won the popular vote, got more votes, cruz walked away with more delegates, donald trump was threatening to sue saying it was unfair. how much -- how do you go about courting these delegates and how much of it is just phone calls -- >> i tell you what, this is a really byzantine kind of deal and one of the things i think favors ted cruz is he has been from the start the most strategic and well-organized of the candidates and it's very clear, donald trump went and got a tutorial on the delegate
selection system. >> does it have to be people on the ground, for instance, in wisconsin who know the delegates, who know the superdelegates and reaching out to them? >> i think the fact that the party apparatus has made a judgment about donald trump is going to make it -- it's going to help ted cruz in this process of trying to lure delegates because he's going to have agents all over the country who are working to bring those delegates into the fold. >> you know, there were really no rules. i mean, aside from federal law about bribery and all the rest. >> federal law. >> yeah, whatever. >> this will be one of those great cnn sunday night things about the thnefarious scheming. i can see it four years from now. >> kevin spacey will narrate it. >> delegates like to be wooed and -- >> don't we all? >> right. absolutely. and there's, you know, there's history here. in '76, there was a contested convention and it was gerald ford versus ronald reagan. and they were out there courting those delegates and that's going
to happen this time. get ready for plane loads of people to go to mar-a-lago. why not? >> on the side of the screen there, 4% of the vote on the republican side. 3% of the vote in on the democratic side. sanders and cruz with leads. a lot of votes still to come in. a lot to be counted. we'll be right back. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-sixteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. thiand being able to use've worked oa pen like thisk. on the screen directly with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter. and i just can't do that on my mac.
will win the republican presidential primary in wisconsin tonight. ted cruz, a huge win for him in wisconsin. setting the stage potentially, increasing prospect potentially for an open or contested convention. let's go to sunlen serfaty, she's over at cruz headquarters where they're just learning of our projection. sunlen, this is an exciting night for all of the people behind you. they're watching us on that big screen. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. you can hear the crowd behind me here at cruz campaign headquarters as they are just learning this news. this projection that senator cruz has won wisconsin. you can hear the crowd just reacting to that behind me. senator cruz predicted a win here in wisconsin so he needed to get that win. the campaign put considerable time, money, investment really dispatching the whole list of surrogates at their disposal to barn storm this state. the campaign manager describing it as an all-hands-on-deck situation to win this state. you know, the cruz campaign,
though, of course, not only on the hunt for a win here in wisconsin, but certainly on the hunt for delegates. so of course even though this projection is a win for cruz, how many delegates is important, how much he wins by is important. senator cruz will address this crowd in a few moments. aides say he'll cast this as a pivotal moment, a turning point in the campaign. we know he will twist the knife a bit at donald trump. in his speech tonight, he is anticipated to say, you know, wisconsin was a state that donald trump should have won, it was a perfect state for him, he will say. so really kind of rubbing it in tonight. this big win trying to cast this as momentum going forward. also senator cruz, we are told, will almost make a pivot looking toward a head toward the general election. he will say, hillary, we are ready for you. senator cruz certainly trying to capture the momentum of the moment in his speech here later tonight. also important, the math going forward. how many delegates will he get tonight?
will he get a clean sweep? that still remains to be seen. wolf? >> we'll of course have live coverage of senator cruz once he comes out and delivers that victory speech tonight. jake and dana, big win. big win for senator cruz tonight. >> this is a state, dana, where mitt romney pretty much finished off rick santorum. this is not necessarily a state that on its face appeals to the voters would find ted cruz appealing. it looks like he had a decisive win and one of the reasons, i think it's their to say, according to polls, is people did not want the current front-runner to be the winner of the wisconsin primary. they were voting i think for ted cruz but also many were voting against donald trump. >> very much so. because kind of the party establishment and more importantly the money came around ted cruz and not john kasich who is still in the race, not doing very well so far in this state. it's critical. the thing that we have to keep in mind going forward as we watch the results come in is what sara reported tonight.
i also was told by an anti-trump strategist that they really want to keep trump under 15 delegates tonight. 42 total. they want to keep him under 15 because by their calculations, this is the never-trump movement, if that happens, trump will have to win 100% of the delegates to avoid taking it to june 7th which is the last day of the primaries. california and a few big primaries. that's not going to happen, but that's kind of the spin that they're putting on it to make it clear how difficult it is going to be for donald trump to get the 1,237 needed at this point to get to the convention. not impossible, but difficult. >> right. this is not a winner-take-all state. donald trump even though we have projected ted cruz will be the winner, donald trump could leave the state with some delegates. >> that's right. >> especially in the northern part of wisconsin. >> exactly. >> which is the senator ron johnson republican who's up for re-election. he has said that donald trump might theoretically be able to help him if trump is on the top of the ticket because he could
get voters out in northern wisconsin. so it's possible, i think it's the 7th and 8th congressional districts. it's possible trump could walk a awi away with at least six delegates from winning in those. john will break it down. one of the other things that's interesting about this is john kasich is nowhere to be seen here. >> no. >> and on its face, john kasich should be doing well in a state like wisconsin. >> yes. >> he's establishment republican, a governor from the midwest. these should be his kinds of voters. when i talked to one of his supporters the other day, former wisconsin governor tommy thompson, he said we were going to have a surprise. it wasn't just that donald trump wasn't going to win, but that john kasich was going to do a lot better than anybody thought. so far with about 20% of the vote in, that's not the case. >> not the case at all, and it was pretty clear looking at john kasich's campaign schedule they knew that this was going to be potentially pretty brutal. he's been in new york. he's been trying to appeal to,
you know, new york more liberal to moderate republicans instead of being in wisconsin, the midwest state to his north where you're right, he should be doing pretty well but he's not and this is one of the things that you're going to hear more and more from ted cruz's campaign, the anger at john kasich for being in the race because they believe, if you look at the polling, i think they're right, that he takes away from one person and one person only at this point and that's ted cruz, not donald trump. >> that's not what donald trump said the other day, anderson, you might be surprised to hear, donald trump says he hurts him more than kasich hurts cruz. >> kasich who i talked to just yesterday says he's in this all the way through the convention. he seems convinced, at least he is publicly saying that when that second round of voting comes, if nobody has the delegates needed in the first round, that all eyes will turn to him because he believes and he claims he's the only person who can beat hillary clinton in a general election. we're standing by for a victory speech from senator ted cruz.
a big, big win for him tonight. an important win for senator. jeffrey lord, obviously not the outcome you would like as a trump supporter. what do you make of the percentage of the lead at this point? >> yeah, congratulations to senator cruz. he did a good job here. no question about it. this is going to enable him to go on. immediately he's going to run into the wall of new york and be on donald trump's home turf and be in the northeastern united states and i think he's going to have a different situation. he didn't do very well in new hampshire. he struggled in other parts of the country so he had to win this tonight and he's won it by a big margin and congratulations to him, but this just goes on now. >> s.e. cupp? >> well, yes, he had to win it. i don't think wisconsin was a tailor-made state for ted cruz at all, though. i think this victory especially if it's close to the margins that we're seeing now is more than just, you know, a great night for ted cruz. i really think it says something about the state of the race. i think jake tapper is absolutely right that this was a
kasich state from the beginning, and that kasich has not so far played significantly in wisconsin. i think says a lot about the future of the kasich campaign. trump has a good map going forward and clearly still has a majority of the delegates. i don't think this is going to keep him necessarily from clinching before the convention,s but it does make it a lot harder. >> does it validate the idea or support the idea that donald trump's stumble or misstatements or controversial statements from the last week have had an impact or do we not know enough about the breakdown? >> we don't know about the exit polls, we don't know exactly what these people were voting based on. i think it would be very hard to argue that a terrible week like the one that he has been suffering through and trying to recover from and trying to spin around did not have any effect on a huge primary night in wisconsin tonight. >> can i -- >> i think it did. >> can i jump in on that? i do think there are things in
the exit polls that suggest he has taken on water as a result of this week. one was the one that david chalian mentioned that on the issue of who can bring about change, he basically split that with ted cruz. it's the first time that i can remember in this campaign that he hasn't run away with that category. the second is on electability. 69%-19% voters who care about electability, a smaller cohort, gave cruz their votes. only 19% voted for donald trump which says to me they've watched him in the last couple of weeks and made some judgments as to what his ability to win would be. >> and he won with independents -- i'm sorry, yes, trump won with indpeependents - >> modestly. >> but a lower margin than he normally wins. >> and he got swamped in the suburbs around milwaukee. he's going into a series of states in the northeast that are largely suburban states. where he's going to have to appeal to those kinds of voters. i think there's plenty in these exit poll numbers that suggest this was a very bad week for
donald trump and maybe a defining week. >> and i don't think you can just blame it on wisconsin culture. i mean, are the voters of michigan, excuse me, not nice? are the voters of hawaii not nice? are the voters of illinois -- i mean, two neighboring stateses to wisconsin -- not nice? >> voters in illinois are really nice. >> governor walker -- >> you also have ted cruz for the first time cutting into a donald trump lead with non-college educated white votes. >> yes. >> that's very, very important going forward. the never-trump movement i also believe had a more targeted consistent campaign against donald trump in wisconsin. now will it continue to spend the kind of money that we saw spent in wisconsin, in two weeks in new york? it's very expensive to run those kind of ads. david knows that. >> the never-trump movement also had a powerful ally in wisconsin, that was donald trump. >> right. >> nobody contributed more to his problems in wisconsin than trump, himself. >> michael? >> may i make the observation, i
think with the exemption of arizona, i think it's the first lab experiment that we have without marco rubio in the race. if these numbers hold up then it suggests that whatever support rubio had entirely went to ted cruz, and i think bolsters that argument that kasich staying in does donald trump a favor because he's splitting the anti-trump vote that exists out there. if it's a 1-1, it doesn't bode well for donald trump is what i'm getting. >> it's also true, i think, i mean, if you look back at polls in wisconsin in january, donald trump was about at 30%. and if this holds up, this is where he is now. i mean, this argument -- i think ted cruz in january in wisconsin was at 16%. in a smaller field, we can see what the result is. i think one of the things that will be interesting to see is what kind of candidate does ted cruz emerge from this fight as? he's often had a difficult time connecting with blue-collar voters, hasn't had a strong message, been more of an evangelical candidate.
can he appeal to downscale blue-collar voters? >> ted cruz said earlier, his campaign was saying all along that a big win here tonight would give him -- it would change the conversation, it would make the nation take notice in a way perhaps they haven't and give him a wind at his back going to new york. >> and it might. it might because it looks like we might be headed to a contested convention, and let's see what the delegate count winds up being, whether trump winds up with nothing or whether he winds up with, you know, with a bunch of delegates. i think we can say that easily, of course, trump had a lousy two weeks going into this, but was it calamitous? >> no. >> i don't think so. >> right. >> i don't think we can say it was calamitous. >> let's go back to wolf blitzer as scott walker is about to talk to introduce ted cruz. wolf? >> all right. we're waiting to hear from ted cruz. we have projected he is the winner of the wisconsin primary, but right now, we have another major projection. cnn projects that bernie sanders will win the wisconsin
democratic presidential primary, beating hillary clinton. a big, big win for bernie sanders. he won five of the last six states. now another state. he's got a lot of momentum going forward right now. a big win for bernie sanders. he's going to be speaking soon, we're told, as well. he's in laramie, wyoming, right now. they've got a contest coming up as well. let's go over to john king over at the magic wall. all right. let's go to brianna keilar actually first. brianna, you're over there. you're covering bernie sanders' campaign. go ahead. they must be getting excited with the projection that we just made. >> reporter: yeah, well actually, wolf, they don't know. the people here in this auditorium at the university of wyoming because we're in an auditorium that does not have television screens so they aren't aware at this point that he has been projected the winner which is odd, but we do expect bernie sanders to come out soon and give his speech. certainly they are going to get that impression because he will declare victory and, yes, they are going to be very excited.
but what the sanders campaign is hoping for, wolf, is that this gives them a bounce. they've had so many wins here recently, a string of them. the delegate haul has not been all that big. 139 delegates. when you don't include wisconsin. just to put that in perspective, that is less than the delegate haul that hillary clinton got just from florida. but they're hoping to get a bounce here into the wyoming caucuses on saturday. a state and a format that favors bernie sanders. and then moving toward new york and pennsylvania. much bigger delegate prizes. i was talking to a top aide to bernie sanders, wolf, a short time ago and he was telling me, he was making it very clear they're not really committing to what their aim is when it comes to new york and pennsylvania. they obviously want to win. they're not committing to a big margin which a lot of people look at the math and say they need to do that. they really seem to be hanging a lot of their hopes on california. all the way to june 7th, wolf. >> it's a big, big win for bernie sanders in wisconsin
tonight. two weeks from tonight, new york, another huge primary, then a week later, pennsylvania and a bunch of other states in the northeast. bernie sanders, he's going to be speaking pretty soon over there, right? and we'll, of course, have live coverage of that as well. let's go over to john king over at the magic wall. cruz wins, bernie sanders wins. big nights for both of them. the exit polls suggested it and now we have made those projections. >> now we've made those projections so we color wisconsin in for cruz. the big question remaining, how many of the 42 delegates? how many delegates of the 42? senator cruz is up now, i'm told? >> he's walking in right now. there's senator cruz. he's got a lot of his family,s his friends up there. he's going to be delivering his speech. he's going to -- he's celebrating. it's a big night for senator ted cruz. no doubt he wants to celebrate. his supporters want to celebrate. he has the governor of wisconsin introducing him. there he is right there, scott walker, a big endorsement. that clearly has helped him.
see heidi cruz up there on the stage as well. they're going to say hello, john, to all of those people. we've seen this. the music is going on behind the scenes as well. big win. big win for ted cruz. he gives a hug to scott walker over there right there. let's listen in. >> god bless the great state of wisconsin. what an incredible victory tonight. and thank you to your tremendous governor, governor scott walker, for his principled, passionate leadership. tonight is a turning point. it is a rallying cry. it is a call from the hardworking men and women of wisconsin to the people of
america. we have a choice. a real choice. the national political terrain began to change two weeks ago. in the state of utah, we won 69% of the vote, a landslide election. winning every single delegate in the state. then just three days ago in colorado, two congressional districts voted. once again they elected six delegates and of those six delegates we won all six. [ cheers and applause ] and then two days ago in north dakota we had another tremendous win. they elected their delegates. of the delegates who specified their support, 18 are supporting
our campaign. one is supporting donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] 18-1, i'll take that ratio any day of the week. and now tonight here in wisconsin, a state that just three weeks ago the media had written off, three weeks ago the media said wisconsin was a perfect state for donald trump. but the hard working men and women of wisconsin stood and campaigned tirelessly to make sure tonight was a victory for every american.
four very different states. utah, colorado, north dakota, wisconsin. four victories. so just how significant is tonight? well, just today our campaign has raised over $2 million. people all over the country going to ted cruz.org, tedcruz.org, contributing $10 or $25 or $50, we've had over 1.5 million contributions.
in the last two weeks and in the coming days when colorado and wyoming finish voting, we are likely to have gained over 100 delegates on donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] and as a result of tonight, as a result of the people of wisconsin defying the media, defying the pundits, i am more and more come vinnvinced that o campaign is going to earn the 1,237 delegates needed to win the nomination. either before cleveland or at the convention in cleveland,
together we will win a majority of the delegates and together we will beat hillary clinton in november. [ cheers and applause ] tonight was a bad night for hillary clinton. it was a bad night in the democratic primary and it was an even worse night for her in the republican primary. we're winning because we're uniting the republican party. of the 17 candidates who started this race, a terrific, talented, dynamic field, five have now
endorsed this campaign. [ cheers and applause ] >> rick perry and jeb bush and carly fiorina and wisconsin's own governor scott walker, lindsey graham. when you toss in senator mike lee and mark levin, we've got the full spectrum of the republican party coming together and uniting behind this campaign. in 1960 accepting the democratic
party's nomination, john f. kennedy observed "i think the american people expect more from us than cries of indignation and attack. the times are too grave, the challenge too urgent and the stakes too high to commit the customary passions of political debate. we are not here to curse the darkness but to light the candle that can guide us to see through that darkness to a safe and sane future." as winston churchill said on taking office, "if we open a quarrel between the present and the past, we shall be in danger of losing the future." the same is true today. tonight wisconsin has lit a candle guiding the way forward.
tonight we once again have hope for the future. [ cheers and applause ] tonight is about unity and tonight is about hope. young people in america once again have hope that we will bring jobs back to america. by repealing oba ing obama careg it -- reining in the federal regulators that are killing small businesses, passing a flat tax and abolishing the irs.
[ cheers and applause ] we will unleash incredible economic growth. our border will finally be made secure, and sanctuary cities will end. [ applause ] truck drivers and mechanics and plumbers and steel workers, union members, men and women with callouses on their hands, will once again see wages rising, opportunity expanding. working moms. [ applause ] working moms struggling to make ends meet will see take-home pay rising, the cost of living
falling and common core ending. [ cheers and applause ] catholic schools and jewish day schools, brigham young will see a supreme court that protects their civil liberties. the fundamental freedom of every one of us to live according to our faith and our conscience. we'll see a supreme court that protects the second amendment right to keep and bear arms and
a fundamental right to protect our families and our homes and our children. we'll see a president who stands with israel. clearly and unapologetically. instead of negotiating with terrorists, we'll rip to shreds this catastrophic iranian nuclear deal. [ applause ] we will defeat radical islamic terrorism and we will utterly destroy isis.