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tv   Americas Choice 2016 WI Primary  CNN  April 5, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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takes on bernie sanders. we may find out when she sits down for an interview right here on cnn 11:15 a.m. eastern. both senator cruz and senator sanders had a lot to say about the momentum they received about tonight's big wins. >> god bless the great state of wisconsin. >> with our victory tonight in wisconsin we have now won seven out of eight of the last caucuses and primaries. >> utah, colorado, north dakota, wisconsin, four victories. >> we have an excellent chance to win in oregon and to win in california. >> when colorado and wyoming finish voting, we are likely to have gained over 100 delegates on donald trump. >> please keep this a secret.
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do not tell secretary clinton. she's getting nervous. i believe we have a chance to win new york and a lot of delegates in that state. >> hillary, get ready. here we come. >> bernie sanders and ted cruz speaking to hillary clinton. dana, you're here with david. there's going to be a democratic caucus in wyoming on saturday. >> he general does better in caucuses. but i wanted to kind of take a step back and turn to the republican side as we discuss tonight and just revisit this concept of ted cruz, the guy who republicans in congress and washington could not stand five minutes ago is now the establishment candidate. it is official. he is the establishment candidate. it was going that way, but the
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fact that he did so well that his numbers were so strong in wisconsin with the help and the backing of the entire republican establishment, donald trump is right about that and john kasich, who is more establishment than pretty much anybody in the race has been didn't do anything. he got a goose egg tonight. >> i think john kasich had a really bad night tonight and i think he is now going to be really searching for a rational because his rational even in the last few days has been people ask me why i'm staying in the race. this is why i stay in the race. the republican party has chosen another alternative to donald trump. they've not chosen john kasich. they are behind ted cruz to be that alternative to donald trump. so now john kasich as the cruz campaign points out really is in the way of a clean one-on-one trump versus the non-trump candidate. how many times have you
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interviewed ted cruz and asked him about who his friends are in the senate or what his relationships are like with his fellow republicans on capitol hill. i've seen you ask him that question and what that's like and now to see -- >> they're all his best friends. >> it is an astonishing development in the republican party and in ted cruz's arc in his short time in washington. >> one thing i have to say for ted cruz is that we give him a lot of ribbing. i think that he zooedeserves it some ways about the fact that he embraced donald trump for so long and then he started hitting him. for where with he are right now given the fact that he is the establishment candidate, which is again crazy, but the fact that he stayed in for so long and he just kind of waited it out, it worked. i do think to your point about
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the spoiler in john kasich, already the cruz campaign has been app electic about john kasich being in the race. they were running ads about john kasich in wisconsin to keep his vote threshold down. it's going to be more of an issue going forward, especially in new york where donald trump -- it's more of his turf and they're going to split the votes and that's going to matter for the delegates in some of these congressional districts because that's how it's apositioned similarly to tonight. >> what you're saying about cruz hugging trump and hanging in, last fall when there were 17 candidates and donald trump was on the rise, the party wasn't open. ask jeb bush's super pac, the party wasn't open to the argument against donald trump at that point. as the field whittled and we're down to a couple of candidates
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now, there is a segment of the party that wants cruz. >> wolf, did you ever think a few years ago when i was reporting from the capitol about the shut down and how angry everybody was at ted cruz that we would be sitting here and saying ted cruz is the establishment candidate. >> the establishment doesn't like donald trump. we didn't hear from donald trump tonight, but his campaign put out that strong statement. saying ted cruz is worse than a puppet. he is a trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from mr. trump. >> i will say that it's a little bit ironic since so many people within the republican party have called donald trump a trojan horse, somebody who is trying to come in and basically sneak into the republican party as somebody who is not really a republican. >> let's go back to jake. >> thanks. let's talk about this.
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do you think that the republican establishment their reluctance to embrace donald trump is because they don't like him or they are afraid they will get killed in a general election? what's motivating this? >> i think he's unpredictable. he doesn't follow any normal rules and they're not sure how this is going to work out. cruz is a creature of ideology and you know where he's going and he has things he believes in. another word for the establishment candidate is the viable alternative candidate or the professional candidate who observes no rules. so that's the guy that maybe many people want to get behind instead of trump. >> you worked for cruz during some of these tough times when the establishment truly loathed him. did you think we would be in a time and place when the
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republican establishment was supporting him so strongly? >> cruz -- i disagree with the assessment that he's the establishment candidate. >> he's supported by -- he's supported by the establishment. >> the establishment guys lost. they were not viable. he compromised nothing to get where he is. when i hear people say he's the establishment candidate, it makes me think they think he compromised something. no. he developed his own path. he's winning in places like everybody said he never would. he didn't win some of those states, but he picked up states like main. he's a competitive all state candidate. so to say that he sacrificed something or compromised and now he's the establishment, i disagree with that. people realize he can win now and they're getting on board. >> why do you think the republican establishment is so
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opposed to donald trump. >> for the republican establishment this isn't about winning the election and defeating hillary. this is about protecting their interests. at the end of the day it's about protecting their hold on the republican party. ted cruz poses a threat that to to some extent, but donald trump poses a significant threat to that. the pet projects go away. he is a threat to the establishment interests. >> i think the republicans are also general concerned about a guy who encourages violence at his rallies, who has very little respect for core freedoms, who wants to ban an entire religion from entering the country. who has made statements about vladimir putin. i think across the party -- >> he's a conservative.
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it's not that they love ted cruz. they believe whatever the establishment is that trump is too malleable. he's too left wing in a way. he's unpredictable as you were pointing out and they don't think he represents their party's conservative values. >> let me give this to you ron. i see -- if you strip away the controversial stuff there's four things that are going on with the trump candidacy. one is he really truly is an outsider in the sense that none of these guys want him -- in washington want him to be the nominee. two, there is the immigration issue that's been festering for decades. three, counter terrorism which
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is fairly mainstream. and then lastly of course is trade. those are not insane categories of reasons why voters -- >> entitlement. >> protecting the entitlement. >> the answer of why the republican establishment doesn't like donald trump you could say all of the above. he upends decades of republican policy commitments from his views on nato and foreign pol y policy. he's unpredictable. you don't know what he's going to do next. he's a general election risk at this point facing unprecedented negatives among the group's the core of the modern democratic coalition all of which are growing. i think they also see him as a greater long term risk than cruz. i think the republicans think
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that donald trump may be more competitive in this election, but they're worried about the long-term brand that he puts on the party because of all these racially charged positions and whether it defines the republican party, particularly this generation. >> one of the democrats who is concerned about what donald trump might be able to achieve in november is a little guy with he like to call bill clinton. he's worried that maybe trump will be able to reshape the map. >> i wonder if he's worried or not. if you look at all the groups he alan nates, i think there was a brief moment where they said he reshape the map. now if you look at the projections, there was a map that showed there isn't much realignment and in fact some states -- states like utah and michigan, with trump on the
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ballot, the democrats are competitive. it's a problem for the party. >> we spend all our time focusing on the presidential election because it is the most exciting thing and the commander in chief, leader of the free world, but there are so many other contests that are going to happen in november and i was talking to a republican who has a big stake in this election and they did a new round of polling, they said the polling that has come back show that donald trump is helping the republican candidate better than ted cruz is. the reason being is that ted cruz is a republican that is hated by the establishment. we know that. but they have grabbed on to him because donald trump is so unpredictable that they don't know how to handle donald trump. when you talk to the voters that donald trump potentially could help some vulnerable republicans. >> some hillary clinton backers have accused bernie sanders of
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being a protest candidate, but now after another big win it's the sanders campaign that says clinton might be willing to destroy the democratic party, quote, to satisfy the secretary's ambitions to become president. cnn special coverage continues after this quick break. there are two billion people
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>> ted cruz is the winner of the republican presidential primary in wisconsin. 13 point lead for bernie sanders. 99% of the vote is in there. he has 56.4%. a huge win for bernie sanders in wisconsin. let's go to john king at the magic wall. the democratic contest is different than the republican contest because the democratic contest there are these super delegates. >> how does bernie sanders change the arc of the race right now. bernie sanders will be about 230 pledged delegates behind hillary clinton. can he use that momentum going forward. the next contest for the democrats is out here.
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this gives him to 55-45. this gives him a net gain of two delegates. then he comes here. this has been bernie sanders' problems. when he gets to a larger state, this also happens to be hillary clinton's adopted home state, bernie sanders has to change. if you look at the pattern of the race so far, this is a state that hillary clinton wins. will bernie sanders win tonight change the arc? it could. you would have to say she will be favored there. the race goes on to pennsylvania. a state with a significant african-american a base. as demographics as we see them today, hillary clinton is favored there. you have baltimore and other areas. as of today you would have to favor hillary clinton there. so in the big states, look at the number of delegates here, they're splitting them, but she starts to edge out again.
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even if you said senator sanders was going to get connecticut and rhode island and massachusetts, there we go. let's say senator sanders gets rhode island and delaware. if she wins the bigger states she stretches her lead. the big challenge for senator sanders is to take the momentum and come east and prove with that momentum and his organizational skills you can change these big states. he has to do it by the end of the month to change that math. >> we're not talking about the super delegates, more than 700 of them. hillary clinton has huge advantage on that front. >> let's talk about the sanders/clinton race. you don't think it's likely that
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bernie sanders will be able to prevent hillary clinton from getting the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination. >> he has to change the dynamic. sanders has done better than anyone probably including his own campaign. by the time this is over, he will win a higher share of the vote than any other democratic party in history. just about anybody -- kennedy in 1980 against jimmy carter. he's done a lot of things here, but what he has not yet solved is how to win the big states because on the democratic side the big states are diverse. he's winning white voters and that sets him up for a victory. the big four that are still out there are new york, pennsylvania and then california and new jersey on the last day and all of them, unless he can crack the diversity of the party, he's likely to lose those states. >> the momentum hasn't really
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worked. him winning in all of these states doesn't necessarily transfer to another state. he's probably going to win in wyoming, obviously won tonight in wisconsin. that means very little for new york because the demographics are so different in the same way that hillary clinton's sweep of the south didn't mean much for her. >> we had jeff weaver on the show. jeff zel knee noted they're going to go tougher after bernie sanders than they have. i asked jeff weaver what his response to that was. >> the senator has tried to run an issue issue oriented campaig. don't destroy the democratic party to satisfy the secretary race ambitions to become the president of the united states. let's have a tough debate.
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let's talk about the issues. there are sharp contrasts between the two, but let's not dem great other peoples supporters and tear the party apart. >> don't destroy the democratic party in order to satisfy the secretary's ambitions to be president of the united states. them's fighting words. >> it's on. it's been on. we just haven't seen it play out because donald trump has sucked every bit of oxygen. >> it hasn't gotten that nast. >> behind the scenes it is pretty nasty right now. >> they're feelings are noddt t same thing. >> the clinton people are trying to push bernie sanders out. they're saying you're not going to win the delegates. he's not going to win the number of delegates in these big states. he's not going to get there. isn't the irony of this is he has won six of the last seven
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contests and we're saying get out of the race. >> i'm not saying. >> nor any of us are up here. the bottom line is doesn't he have to win over the super delegates, the power brokers, the people that he is running against are going to be the people potentially deny him. >> that's his problem because he needs to win the super delegates. you talk to the people who worked for sanders and they say we're going to win over the super delegates, except those super delegates have not seen bernie sanders as a democratic activist. he's never been a democratic activist. he hasn't been out there raising money for him and they don't feel any particular loyalty to bernie sanders nor do they see him as a better general election candidate than hillary clinton. so it's a really tough case. >> one quick last point, regardless of how this turns out, the fact that he's won young voters and he's won them
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by bigger margins than barack obama did, that's a signal to the party. >> the really interesting question if we assume it's going to be hard for bernie sanders to get the nomination, is what comes of his candidacy in terms of the change in the democratic party. is he able to find some way of holding hillary clinton's feet to the fire so she wasn't be able to have trade deals and force her to do something on campaign finance reform, can he change the kind of president that hillary clinton will be. >> he's never used his position in the senate to do anything, which i think is interesting. i was thinking about bernie sanders has this great plrm.
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>> it's almost impossible to get anything done. >> it's important for people to be inclusive of the voters. 36% of bernie supporters couldn't see themselves for voting for hillary clinton. it is crucial that she brings in bernie sanders in a general election, therefore bringing in the white middle class voters. you have to respect bernie sanders and what he's done. >> i think that's what jeff woo weaver was suggesting when he says don't destroy the democratic party. but i have not seen clinton be able to successfully reach out to these young voters in the way that she's going to need to. >> as much as we talk about how bernie sanders has not tapped into the diversity of the democratic party, this other giant part of their coalition that was so important to the obama coalition and is
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particularly hard to get toout vote and volunteer because they're young people and have their video games and whatnot, she has not been able to crack that and that is a huge part of this and she will have to work hard to bring those people in and keep them interested. >> you saw her make a misstep. she said something like she feels sorry for young people who believe certain things that bernie sanders says. >> stay right there. for one night never trump beat donald trump. the groups aligned against the business mogul say this is the end of donald trump. that's ahead.
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momentum is when you look at national polls or statewide
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polls we are defeating donald trump by very significant numbe numbers. >> when colorado and wyoming finish voting we are likely to have gained over 100 delegates on donald trump. >> when we stand together and we don't allow the trumps of the world to divide us up, we can create a government that represents all of us and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. >> three weeks ago the media said wisconsin was a perfect state for donald trump. [ boos ] but the hard working men and women of wisconsin stood and campaigned tirelessly to make sure tonight was a victory for every american. >> the two winners of the wisconsin primaries, senator bernie sanders, winner of the democratic primary and senator ted cruz, winner of the
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republican primary. let's bring back our panel. can trump be stopped do you think? you're a supporter of his. you don't want to be stopped. >> he can stopped from getting 1,237, but he cannot be stopped from getting the most delegates as we enter the convention. one thing i want to address is ted cruz mentioning this was a perfect state for donald trump, that wisconsin was the perfect state. first of all i don't think anyone said that. it's worth pointing out that donald trump breached 35% in wisconsin and the new york times made a powerful argument why wisconsin was one of the most states for donald trump. he said look tonight to see if donald trump gets over 35%. if he does that's in line with what we've been projecting and if he gets over 35% an he did that it's not a momentum problem, it's a demographic problem. >> i found that argument strange
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all the way through. in 2012 the share of the vote in wisconsin was 57%. it was the highest of any state on the republican side. donald trump has won blue collar whites in virtually state. even tonight, 55% of the vote were cast by non-college white voters and donald trump lost them. i think the idea that this was a bad state for him doesn't hold for him. it's the kind of place that he has dominated even against opposition by the state political leadership. the idea that he was kind of doomed or fated to lose here doesn't hold up and we saw him erode significantly. >> he lost the state overall so even when he does well traditionally amongst this faction. >> it's not that donald trump's number was so low, it's that ted cruz was able to get so high.
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this was as close as we've seen to a two-person race. people had banked votes for people like marco rubio. rubio was able to take advantage of those other candidates. if he can do that in the states to come, he will be formidable. >> cruz gained all these kasich folks with kasich in the race in a state that should have worked for kasich, not for cruz. >> cruz had the scott walker endorsement, but also the carly fiorina. carly fiorina was a great asset campaigning around the state with him. donald trump hasn't had that help. he had sarah palin.
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>> you can't win the super bowl unless you change your game. trump has to sit down with himself and his core group. >> and his brain. >> he admitted to a mistake on the heidi cruz re-tweet. there's a lot he's done wrong. nobody is entitled to it if you're 100 votes away. you have to cross the finish line. it's not like whoever is doing best going in wins. you have to play by the rules. you can't say it's rigged against you. if you're running for president, there are rules. >> when your people are telling you they don't like the rules, in wisconsin they said they didn't like the rules. >> you can't change them. jim baker's argument was these
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are the rules that this election was governed by and you can't change rules in the middle of the game. when you're running for president you know what the rules are. >> that falls on deaf ears. i plead for everyone to listen to your voters. >> sure, if we want to play the argument that this is what people are thinking at the time, but the rules were created to try to keep order. the one rule we're not having spoken about tonight which is extremely important is the rule that you have to win eight states in order to have -- >> win the majority of the delegates. >> in order to have your name in the nomination. the fact that you have trued cr and donald trump aligned on this to try to squeeze out john kasich is going to be an epic
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battle. >> john kasich tonight sending out a memo saying the nomination process is wide open and he thinks he's the best to go up against clinton. polls show that. kasi kasich's big flaw is he's not playing in any of these states. >> don't go anywhere. he says he has the momentum, but bernie sanders has a problem when it comes to the math. we asked his campaign manager to chart the senator's path forward. how does the sanders campaign plan to win the nomination? that's ahead.
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bernie sanders keeps racking up wins, but hillary clinton's delegate lead is so large right now many people say the race for the democratic nomination is effectively hour. just a few hours ago we spoke to the campaign manager jeff
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weaver. we asked how he could catch up to hillary clinton. >> so let's start by wisconsin tonight a good win. it looks like you're going to win 55-a 45. that would get you here in the pledged delegate math. the question is, you know the math. you have to win -- you're going into new york next. can you win new york? >> we're going to wyoming next and then new york. new york will be a tough fight. there's no doubt about it. the secretary has a lot of political support in new york, but i think we can win it. >> let's say you win it. >> that would be nice. >> that would be nice? >> from your lips to god's ears. >> i'm gonna be nice. >> i've got it. >> can you make it up. >> sure. >> when you go through all these states, secretary clinton thinks she's going to win that.
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i'm gonna give it to bernie sanders. she's getting under the democratic party rules it's helped you in states you've lost you get 40 something percent, but going forward can bernie sanders win connecticut. >> absolutely. >> a lot of guys on wall street live in connecticut. >> i know that. >> state of new jersey. >> absolutely. >> you're on a roll. we're being generous. i know the clinton supporters are mad at me. we'll give it to you 55-45. we can go on through all of these, but i'm going to do this for the sake of argument i'm going to give them all to you. this is like the price is right or whatever it is. if we give it all to you, at 55-45, you almost catch her, but you come up short.
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especially in some of these big states you got to win bigger than that. >> in some smaller states we have won a lot of these states in the last couple of weeks by 60%, 70%, 80% in alaska. >> let's show what that means. in a state like alaska it's only 10 delegates. you need better than that. >> as we saw in nevada, senator sanders is going to net many more delegates than what he gets initially. >> now i'm going back. let's assume hillary clinton wins the state of pennsylvania. i'm going to say that she wins new york. maybe she doesn't win it by this margin, but if -- this is -- i'm still giving you a bunch of states and the clinton people are saying no way, so the
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question is in terms of pledged delegates and i haven't done that trick where i bring out the super delegates, because if you do something like this some of the super delegates will change their minds. how do you change the map so that you catch her? >> in some of these states we're going to have bigger margins. you mentioned west virginia, there's polls that show senator sanders 20 points ahead. >> it's 36 delegates. >> you're never making a big path. it's slow and steady wins the ra race. we're going to an open convention. >> you believe that? >> absolutely. >> do you think that you can make the argument successfully to super delegates that they should change their vote even if hillary clinton enters the convention ahead in the pledged delegates. >> this is what super delegates
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have to grasp el with. the polling shows that's bernie sanders. he obviously has the momentum here on the second half of the primaries and caucuses. so i think their desire to win as he continues to demonstrate he's the strongest candidate will be powerful with candidate. >> a double digit win for ted cruz. bernie sanders winning. wisconsin voters had their say tonight. now the race moves to new york. can clinton and donald trump defend their home turf? we'll be right back. our new extended range lte goes 2 times farther and works 4 times better in buildings than before. just in time for baseball season. t-mobile customers can catch every moment all season long with a free mlb tv premium subscription.
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welcome back to the cnn live coverage. let's bring back the panel. mark, i want to start with you. where are we now. every delegates matters. who has what? >> let's look at delegates to date right now. donald trump who didn't have a terribly good night tonight in
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wisconsin still has a huge lead, 743 delegates, ted cruz 50 7 delegates. we're headed to a contested convention. on the democratic side, hillary clinton right now has 1,778 delegates. of those 1,295 of those are pledged. 483 are super delegates. bernie sanders has 1,097 delegates. of those 1,066 are pledged delegates for him. hillary clinton at this point certainly has the backing of the establishment democratic party. >> it's very interesting. peter, let me go to you because i want to look forward to new
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york. you live in new york? >> born. >> i'll do this special treatment for you when we get to california. what are you looking forward to. >> when candidates come to new york the middle east because a bigger issue, israel in particular. bernie sanders over the last couple of weeks has staked out some positions on the question that are subjestantially to the left of where hillary clinton is. that debate will be amplified as we go into new york. >> it's interesting. i was listening to the speeches earlier and ted cruz was talking about protecting the religious liberty of hebrew day schools. >> that was the first thing that ted cruz said that i liked. >> i am excited to see a little bit more emphasis on the democratic side as they go into new york where i think it will
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be more competitive. there's been so much fighting on the republican side. hillary and bernie do have legitimate issues to debate. i think hillary needs to have more scrutiny to be a better general candidate so let's go to brooklyn. >> donald trump, it's his home state. you're expecting a big victory. >> i foresee him getting over 50% and becoming the winner. we heard mark preston spell out add 95 to that because i think he's going to breach 50% and it will be a winner take all state. >> all right. great panel. thank you so much. hillary clinton sits down tomorrow morning for an interview with cnn. we'll ask her about her strategy for victory in the new york primary and much more. you can see that interview at 11:15 a.m. eastern.
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new york is the next democratic debate next week. our coverage continues. stay tuned. wwhen systems can help sense your surroundings. and when cameras change your perspective. that's the more human side of engineering. experience what a lincoln can do for you at the lincoln spring collection event.
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hello and welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. >> great to have you with us. it's 11:00 p.m. here in los angeles. welcome to the late show. 1:00 a.m. in wisconsin. >> that's where supporters of republican presidential candidate ted cruz are celebrating. cnn projects the texas senator has won his party's primary there. >> in the national delegate count, donald trump still in the lead with 743. cruz has 510. the magic number, 1237. >> indeed. cruz is determined to beat trump. off his wisconsin win, he told supporters the momentum is shifting in his favor.


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