tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN April 8, 2016 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
all right, here we go, top of the hour, i'm brooke baldwin. breaking news on cnn. this man allegedly involved in not just one but two of europe's most horrific terror attacks has just been caught alive. one of the men here, mohamed abrini, has just been arested. these photos showing abrini at a gas station, two days after the paris attacks, with the now captured, the eighth wanted terror suspect from paris there in the surveillance photos from the gas station from right after those coordinated attacks. meaning that last named suspect is no longer at large. also ties him to last month's
coordinated brussels bombings at the airport and the subway. something authorities have kept very closely to themselves. belgium media reporting that this man in the hat and the light colored jacket at the airport before those bombings is, in fact, abrini, captured a short time ago, along with osama krayem, accused of having a quote/unquote operational role in the brussels attacks. lots of pieces to throw at you. we'll have it all together and understand it as we go to brussels. cnn journalist kelly morgan is standing by with more. let's begin with the significance of this abrini arrest. what do we know about him? >> it's extraordinary, big fish for the belgian authorities to have this man in custody. we know that he grew up in this area, in brussels, in the neighborhood where paris suspect who's also captured, salah
abdesl abdeslam, also grew up, these men, long-term friends. we're starting to piece it together. the attacks between brussels and paris and the role that these two men played in both. now, abrini, we are going to learn more. we just heard from the prosecutor's office now. there is going to be a press conference in two hours. so we will hopefully bring you more details then. but we know that he was arested, the other man who was arrested with him, was osama krayem, who was listed on a european security bulletin the day after the brussels attacks and he was named on that list. his name, al hamid. he was the man investigators believe was the second bomber at the metro station. as abrini, the local media here belgian media, is reporting that abrini was the man in the white coat. now, we've asked prosecutors
about that, can they confirm that. they cannot at this stage. but that would be an extraordinary day if we had these two men, two men who walked away from those brussels attacks. we don't know whether they were planning more attacks. but both big fish. we really look forward to learning more in the next two hours, brooke. >> we will have that news conference, 3:30, eastern standard time here in the united states. kelly, thank you so much. paul cruickshank is joining me. editor in chief for the ctc sentinel. i think it's important to remind people when we saw the photos in the airport before the bombs went off in brussels, the two guys in the black, the suspected suicide bombers. then the man in the light jacket who was later seen on surveillance video walking and then jogging away. if this is abrini, how significant is this? >> significant indeed. because the third terror operative at the airport, somebody who was obviously going to be very dangerous moving
forward, if they got that individual and he's indeed abrini, that's significant. abrini is a huge get, you know, even if he isn't the guy at the airport, he's the guy who drove the paris attackers from belgium, all those save houses in belgium, to paris in the 48 hours before the paris attacks, and then he's disappeared into thin air. well, we now know he came back to brussels and we know that he was in the armdelect district of brussels, which is pretty much central brussels. >> another story of someone else going back to where they came from and hiding out. >> hiding out in a place they knew very well. he grew up in molenbeek not far away, just a short walk from anderlecht and also we understand arrested osama krayem, who was the other most wanted man in europe, and a source close to the investigation telling us that he's believed to be one and it is same as nan al hamid.
the french had an alert that went out on the day of the attacks a bit later on with this guy's picture. saying they thought he was armed and dangerous. they identified him at the time as mohammed. they believe he played an operational role in the brussels attacks. now we understand he is one and the same as osama krayem. this is somebody who came through the greek island on september 20, came through then austria and went to a refugee center in olm, germany. where he was picked up on the 3rd of october and then driven to brussels. this attack coming through europe from syria to go to paris, to go to brussels, congregating there. is this the end of the story?
this is not the end of the story. there are at least four other people they have the identities of that are wanted in connection with the paris and brussels attacks. and so they're looking for them at the moment. there's concern that some of them may have faked their own deaths in syria. not clear whether, you know, some are alive or dead. but the european officials have been increasingly seeing these isis operatives from europe pretending that they're dead so it's more easy to come into europe. a number of those four individuals i was just talking about, that's the case with them. >> so here's what i'm wondering because when we were talking about the massive capture of salah abdeslam who was involved in paris and then days later brussels happened and we talked about what would police be talking about him about or interrogating. you have to believe the same is happening with these two men. >> right, just think about it, salah abdeslam was captured on a friday. the tuesday after that, we saw the brussels attacks. we're on a friday now.
they suspect there are other people connected to the cell still at large. perhaps a dozen they suspect overall that are probably still at large. right now, people who played a logistical support in all of this, dangerous people, still out there, who may be increasingly desperate as this dragnet comes down. everybody's got to hope we don't have another tuesday like we had in brussels last month. >> yes, hoping not at all for that. paul cruickshank, always excellent on all of this, thank you so much on these latest arrests in belgium. for the first type, time, t adviser for donald trump's campaign. what he admits about ted cruz's strategy. also, today, new, bill clinton, responding to his heated clash with black lives matter protesters. and rapper actor producer about to be latest inductee in the rock and roll hall of fame, ice cube, nwa, being inducted this evening in brooklyn. he will join me to talk politics, police and what it
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welcome back. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. remember way back before the presidential election season began, for really more than two years, hillary clinton was all but presumed the nominee. but now bernie sanders campaign is saying its people are preparing for an open convention because clinton, they say, will not have naenough delegates to earn the nomination outright. yes, a contested convention, which hasn't been seen in generations, may just happen not just for the republicans but for the democrats. >> in all likelihoolikelihood, l be an open convention. we're in constant contact with superdelegates as we go to the convention to convince them what is the fact. polls show consistently bernie sanders beats all of the republicans than the secretary. we have many people affiliated with the campaign who have floor experience with the democratic party.
we're looking at all the options with rules and delegates and what have you. >> anchor of cnn's "inside politics" mr. john king joins me because he is just the best at math among us all here. so let's do a little math on king as far as the democrats are concerned. she has nearly 700 more delegates than bernie sanders. how could he catch up? >> well, they don't like that math in the sanders campaign. they prefer to say instead of a 681-delegate lead, with the superdelegates counted in, that she has a 229 delegate lead. they like to count for now, brooke, only pledge delegates. the sanders strategy is to start beating her, he's won seven of the last eight, will probably win in wyoming on saturday. it's only 14 delegates in wyoming. if he can upset her in new york, in maryland, they are hoping, then he has to win in california as well, they're hoping to get to a democratic convention,
maybe she's still in the delegate lead but he's closed that gap and there's a panic in the democratic party that she's weak, that she's wounded, that how is bernie sanders beating her in the big states. that's their dream scenario. will it happen? who knows. if they can beat her in the big states, they hope there's a panic among the super delegates and the superdelegates who can switch their vote back away from hillary clinton and say, whoa, we don't know. >> as far as whether or not on the democratic side we have a contested convention or not, but who actually thinks they will is of all people donald trump's new manager. he's confident that there will be only one round of voting at the republican convention in cleveland in july. here he was. >> reality is ted cruz has seen his best day. reality is this convention process will be over with some time in june, probably june 7th. and it will be apparent to the world that trump is over the 1,237 number.
there's pennsylvania, there's new jersey, there's maryland, there's connecticut. these are his wheelhouse. yes california is important. but by the time we get to california, the momentum is going to be very clear. ted cruz's path to victory is going to be in shambles. >> so jump on what he said but also i'm curious, does this behoove donald trump to have multiple rounds if this goes to a contested convention? >> no. emphatic no. that's why he brought in a grown-up like paul manafort who has been involved in just about every republican convention, knows the rules, knows how to count. now, he was being very optimistic in the sound by saying donald trump will get to 1 1,237 before the convention. that's possible. but trump will have to win the remaining delegates to do that. he has to win just about all of
the 95 in new york. he has to win all of them in new jersey. pennsylvania has a lot of noncommitted delegates. that's what this could come down to. paul manafort understands his job might be coming into the convention there are around 1,200 and they need to get, you know, 40 more or 50 more. and then you go to those uncommitted, the unbound delegates, and you try to say, look, we're the only guy who can win. he understands that's his job between now and cleveland, keep an eye on every one of those uncomm uncommitted, unbound delegates and try and convince them to come to your side. in all likelihood, he knows this, trump will be a little bit short before the convention. he hopes to get there on the first ballot by lobbying those uncommitted delegates. he can't say it publicly but most people believe and i'm told he understands that if trump loses on the first ballot, then they think they got a problem. >> counting. hoping for the first ballot. we shall see. >> math is fun, brooke. >> math is so fun. make sure you watch john every
single morning 8:00 eastern "inside politics" with mr. john king here on cnn. thank you, thank you, thank you. next, ten seconds, ten, that's all you get in colorado, to convince your fellow republicans you should become a delegate. that process begins just a couple hours from now. we will talk with someone who hopes to make that speech and become an integral part of the colorado process. also, the battle for new york, between the democratic candidates is definitely heating up, becoming quite tense. we'll talk to howard wolfson. he worked for hillary clinton's campaign in 2008. what he makes in the shift of the tone on the democratic side. today. s all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future.
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the republican race for the white house has moved to colorado. how they do things in colorado is like nothing we've seen thus far. no voters head to the polls. no one gathers to caucus. republican party insiders are basically hand picking delegates, rather than candidates. ted cruz already has won nine. more will be chosen today and tomorrow. all of this, again, without a statewide vote. to explain all this, let's go to colorado springs and my colleague anna cabrera there. from what i gather, this is hundreds of people who want to be delegates and they have a big ten seconds to make their pitch? >> i know, that's what i said when i first heard that. i had to ask, did i hear that correctly? but really it's a logistical issue, brooke. there are only ten seconds because there are hundreds of candidates running to be delegates from the state of
colorado at the rnc. of those hundreds, only 34 he end of this weekend will be elected to be those representatives trnc come july. a lot of the groundwork really has been laid in the weeks leading up to it, working to get their message out. there's also been a coordination with a lot of the presidential campaigns. we know cruz's campaign has been here for months with more than 100 volunteers we're told, making phone calls, sending out e-mails, having meetings with potential delegates and supporters of cruz. then the presidential candidates run a slate or maybe have six people who they really honed in on want to be their representatives to get elected to the rnc. they tell the rest of their supporters, if you want to have cruz be president, then elect one of these six delegates. that's sort of how it's working hand the scenes. that's why a lot of these delegate candidates really probably don't stand a chance going into the convention but it's all part of the process
here, brooke. >> we will talk to one of them in just a moment. anna cabrera, thank you, in colorado. to zero in on this process under way right now in that state, remember, she mentioned hundreds, 600 people are running for the right to become a delegate at the republican national convention when it's held this july in cleveland. and each of those 600 is being given, as we mentioned, all of ten seconds to make a pitch to party insiders. this entire process of deciding which republican candidate gets to represent the republican party in the november general election could come down to how well you're able to sell yourself, again, in ten seconds. you have to wonder, how do you do that? we have eli bremer, who's also now joining us to help us understand this whole process. nice to see you. >> good to see you too, brooke. >> so, tell me, i won't time you on this one, why do you want to be a delegate? >> well, it's a really fun process, despite all the
hardships that you go through. it's a fun process. my wife and i have been involved for years. we dieecided this year we would make a run at it. >> i understand, even though you want a chance to be in cleveland and represent colorado, you would prefer that your great state of colorado held a primary, tell me why. >> well, that's correct. we have a caucus system and it's very difficult for most voters to understand it. there's a lot of people who don't get to participate. a lot of military. a lot of single moms. i think a state primary would just make a lot more sense. we'd get a lot more people involved. you have a better process, you're likely to get better results. >> i understand you're still try to make up your mind. you're unattached to any particular candidate. i know ted cruz will be there, making his -- making a speech. the last time any sort of candidate did that, that was in the 70s with ronald reagan. the other candidates will be sending representatives. are you swayed any which way
yet? >> not yet, you know, there's a lot of time left in this election. we've got until really early june before all the delegates are allocated. if someone locks up the nome make it by then, i'll come out and endorse them. if not, i want to talk to the campaigns that are remaining and tell them if they bring their a game, they can get my support. >> you mentioned your wife also you're part of this process together. she wants to be a delegate. what if you all like different candidates? what does that look like at the dinner table later tonight, eli? >> i'll probably lose that one. so no, we have fairly similar views. i'm sure we'll go into this looking at things the same way. and we just both love participating in the process and we love the opportunity to go out and represent colorado and cleveland. >> fine question, i'm going to give you a quick moment on cnn. give me your pitch. >> my name's eli bremer, i'm the
former el paso county chairman. i would love to represent colorado in cleveland this summer. >> eli -- >> that's about all the time you get. >> i know, and we're out. good luck to you and your wife. eli bremer in colorado springs, thank you very much. thank you. and coming up next week, anderson cooper will moderate a cnn town hall with donald trump and his family. that happens tuesday night, 9:00 eastern, right here on cnn. coming up next, much more on our breaking news here. a fugitive from the paris attacks who may reportedly be this man here in this light jacket who was seen inside the brussels airport before the bombs went off, has been caught alive. we have that for you. also, brill clinton reacts to his heated clash with black lives matter protesters. what the former president has said moments ago. if you have allergy congestion, muddling through your morning is nothing new. ...your nose is the only thing on your mind... ...and to get relief, anything is fair game.
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bottom of the hour. you're watching cnn. we're back with our breaking news. two of europe's most wanted terrorists including the last named paris attack suspect have just been caught alive in belgium. we're waiting for a news conference that should happen during this show. we'll take it. meantime, let me go straight to our justice correspondent pamela brown who's been covering this. let's just begin with these two men. what do we know about them? >> well, these arrests are very significant. particularly, mohamed abrini is someone officials have been searching for ever since the surveillance video. he was seen two days before the attacks. he's been on the run ever since. so it is a huge deal that belgian officials have been able to track him down in brussels and make this arrest. also arrested was osama krayem who was believed to have had interaction with one of the b
bakraoui brothers. officials are trying to learn more about what their involvement was. there is believed to be a connection. and some officials, brooke, believe that mohamed abrini may be the man in that surveillance video at the airport, the third bomber, who has been on the run who we saw in that surveillance video yesterday, walking for two hours after the attack. there is believe it could be him. i should caveat that with the fact there are two other people officials thought was the man in white. turned out they weren't. so people are cautious to make that connection, but there's certainly good reason to believe it, brooke. >> pamela brown, thank you. back to politics now. a crime bill once again plaguing the clinton campaign. black lives matter protesters interrupted former president bill clinton at a rally for his wife's presidential campaign. they're arguing that bill, which clinton signed as president, led
to the disproportionate incarceration of african-americans. president clinton was visibly frustrated in this confrontation. >> i don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hooked on crack and sent them out on to the street to murder other african-american children, maybe you thought they were good citizens, she didn't. she didn't. you are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. >> well, today, bill clinton is back on the trail and he is, quote, almost apologizing for that reaction. >> i like and believe in protests. i'd be a hypocrite if i didn't because i engaged in some when i was a kid. but i never thought i should drown anybody else out. i confess, maybe it's just a
sign of old age, but it bothers me now when that happens. >> this is all in the context ahead of this crucial upcoming primary in the state of new york. hillary clinton is in buffalo today. sanders will be in his birth place in brooklyn. both candidates are hoping for a home state advantage. let me bring in someone who has unique per expect on clinton's strategy in new york. he served in the campaign as well as her senate bids and he was deputy mayor under mayor bloomberg. you saw president clinton responding to protesters in the crowd. what did you make of how he responded? >> i think we're at the point in the campaign where people are beginning to get tired. >> nerves are getting frayed? >> yes, people are getting a little frustrated. people say things that a day later they regret. you've seen that i think with bernie sanders. you've seen that with president clinton. you've seen that on the republican side.
this a very long process. it is a very demanding process. and i give the candidates an enormous amount of credit. most of the time they're at their best. but they're not always at their best. >> you were saying in the commoirm break we have to remember they're humans. in terms of your involvement in '08, there was a thought at the time with regard to hillary clinton and senator barack obama not to go negative, not to go personal. eventually it did. what do you make of the new tone on the democratic side? >> the trajectory in '08 was the campaign started out very positive for most of the campaign in 2007, then it became pretty negative in the early part of 2008. and then by sort of the spring, both campaigns had kind of decided to pull back a little bit. there wasn't a lot of negativity for the final i'd say month or two before the convention. it was kind of something of an june stated agreement that the time for negativity passed and people were beginning to reconcile. i think we're now in the intense phase where there's still
negative going on. bernie sanders calling her unqualified i thought was a pretty poor attack on his part, not really a credible attack on his part. again, candidates improvise. they are tired. they say things that a day later they regret. they obviously have to live with them because there are cameras everywhere. >> it gets looped. what do you think looking from a far, what could secretary clinton be doing better on the trail? >> i actually think she's doing very well. she's ahead. she has a larger margin of earned delegates against bernie sanders then barack obama had. >> everyone talks about his momentum. >> he has run a great campaign. i give him and his campaign an enormous amount of credit. he has come further than anyone assumed he could at the beginning of his campaign. but i think hillary clinton has run a very good campaign. >> give me something, one thing. >> that she could be doing differently? >> yes. >> i give her a lot of advice in 2008 and she wound up as secretary of state and not
president. so i think she's doing just fine. >> as a new yorker, native new yorker, and of course not just on the democratic side but on the republican side, we're seeing all these candidates out and about in the city and elsewhere. ted cruz coming in, doubling down on his new york values comments. we can't crawl into his brain. don't know exactly what he's meant by that. what do you think he means by that? >> i assume he was calling new yorkers liberals. and attacking our sort of social values. look, i think donald trump is poised to do very well in new york. he is -- whatever you think of him, and i don't think very much of him, he is a born and bred new yorker. >> his name's everywere. >> hometown boy. no one has a better understanding and precious for the new york media market than donald trump. he has played the tabloids in his life and his career like a
maestro. insulting your voters is not generally a way to get them to vote for you. >> just sort of -- >> as a rule of thumb. >> maybe 101 there. >> yes, it won't be the recommendation you'd make. >> from a campaign strategy perspecti perspective, overall, not just new york, what do you make -- what do you think is the best thing he's done strategywise? >> i think he has mastered the use of social media to drive mainstream media coverage better than any candidate in the history of america. obviously social media has not been with us for very long. but no one has used it as effectively as donald trump has. >> do you think, then, that has forever changed how candidates could use social media moving forward? >> yes. >> that's significant. >> historians now look back and they say roosevelt understood uniquely the value and importance of radio, as a new medium in 1932. kennedy understood the value and importance of television in
1960. donald trump has understood the value and importance of social media in 2016 in a way that will forever transform american politics. >> from the best to the worst, what's the worst move he's made? >> oh, i think -- >> i know, i'm looking at your eyes, just give me one. >> his comments on abortion were horrible because they offended both people who were pro-life and pro-choice. they appeared ignorant, appeared insensitive. they were devastatingly unfortunate for him. >> howard, if there is an open convention in cleveland, how crazy will that be? >> could be pretty crazy. we have had open conventions before in our history, but we've never had them in the age of social media. so you will have people tweeting and posting what's going on be in the back room as it's happening. we didn't have that in 1932 or 1960 or even obviously in 1976
in the last sort of open convention with reagan and ford. >> obviously trump wants to hit the magic number, doesn't want to deal with a contested convention. it would behoove him to just win outright. as the hours tick on. do you -- what do you make of the move now that they're adding on, within the inner circle? >> smart. i think sort of long overdue. but smart. i mean -- >> too late? >> perhaps. i mean, every campaign needs to expand as it moves forward. these are enormous endeavors. i think one of the challenges that donald trump has faced is his own reluctance to rely on other people in a more conventional way. he would argue it's worked for him. he's the front-runner. but it may not work for him to the extend he gets the nominati nomination. >> last question on hillary clinton. what is the biggest difference you've noted between hillary clinton as a candidate in 2008
versus 2016? >> she seems to be a bit more comfortable now. i don't think we'll ever see another race like 2008 where you had two people like hillary clinton and barack obama. you know, the -- as intense as this campaign has been, that campaign was more intense. and it was -- it was more acrimonious at times than this one. although who knows, there's more time for more acrimony i suspect. >> howard wolfson, come back. the democratic presidential debate next thursday night, brooklyn, new york, 9:00 eastern. coming up next, ice cube. the legendary rap group nwa joins me. we talk about everything from politics to his $160 million grossing film "straight outta compton" to his induction tonight in the rock and roll hall of fame. do not miss this conversation.
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are all about to be inducted into the rock and roll hall fame. the ceremony is set to take place in new york. this honor comes after nearly 30 years after the release of nwa's debut album "straight outta compton." >> you're now about to witness the strength of street knowledge. ♪ ♪ straight outta compton ♪ with attitude ♪ i got a sawed off ♪ bodies are hard off ♪ everybody with me ♪ the police are going to have to come and get me ♪ >> the honor for nwa come on the heels of last year's blockbuster bio pic about the group also titled "straight outta compton." it helped to revitalize interest in nwa's brash political
gangster rap and i had a chat with cube all about it. how are you, good to see you, cube. >> good, how you doing. >> thank you for doing this, congratulations. >> thank you. >> you guys are the what, fifth rap group to be inducted. take me back to when you got the call. >> i learned from my manager. he just -- i guess it hit the news earlier that day. just let us know, yo, we made it. it's a great feeling. i called the other guys, you know, said what's up, hall of famer, it's just a great, great achievement, you know, after all these years, and we humble, proud and grateful. >> what do you say to the people who say a rap group in the rock hall? >> well, they don't know rock and roll. rock and roll is not an
instrument. it's not a style. it's not, you know, of course it's a form of music but i think it's a spirit, it's an attitude. i think -- and it's been since music's began, it's been these pioneers, it's been these mavericks. >> like you. >> hey. >> you're a pioneer, my friend. >> without a doubt. look at all the people who have come before me. the blues singers. the jazz singers. you know, the people who, you know, took gospel music and turned it into soul music. these are -- that's rock and roll to me. and of course the rock and roll is. but the punk rockers, you know, and like even the grunge -- i think anybody who goes outside the box, you know, outside the standards of music, outside the standards of even the music industry. definitely rock and roll. >> the last time we talked, you
mentioned at the very end you're shooting this little movie called "straight outta compton." last numbers i saw was 160 million grossing for this film which is massive. >> oh, yeah. >> why do you think in 2015, 2016, your story resonated so much? >> because it's a classic to me american story. it's a story about brotherhood. it's a story about break up to make up, rags to riches, freedom of speech story, so to me these are all american themes that resonate and just the fact that, you know, we had the backdrop of l.a. at the time. all these issues going on in the late '80s, early '90s and then this great music that was pure honesty, you know, to me it all makes for a great movie. >> you know, i thought about nwa when we saw all of the uprisings with black lives matter.
i was covering in the wake of what happened with eric garner a number of young people were walking around manhattan, across the bridge into brooklyn, and i'm hearing the same words chanted from "f the police song" from back in the day, but to see young people, so many youngs later, invoking your same words, what was that like? >> the bad part of it is the fact that they have to go through the same things that we were going through and that, you know, little has changed or not enough has changed. you know, what's good is the fact that people, you know, did what we did, you know, they used their voice as their way to protest, as their so-called weapon, and not sticks, rocks, bottles. you know, when you start going there, it's a whole nother level. i just think it's a thing that people can say and protest
without being physically violent. >> what do you think has really changed since -- between your generation and, say, your son's generation? >> well, police are a little more scrutinized. you know, when i -- before we did the music, before we did that song, you know, police could do no wrong in the eye of the courts, in the eye of the media. it was just a thing where, you know, if you're in that uniform, you must have been right and that the guy you dealt with must have been wrong or the person you arrested or physically confronted must have been wrong. but that's changed now, you know, police are held accountable, you know, to a certain degree. at least they're, you know, at least mentioned. at least they're, you know, if not, you know, publicly shamed for their actions, you know, at the very least, you know, that's the difference, you know, police are being held more accountable for what they're doing to the
citizens. >> "barber shop," next one is coming out, tax day april 15th. makes everyone laugh. you take on south side of chicago, serious issue of gang violence. we have a clip. take a look. >> this neighborhood was always rough. but there's something different going on. >> they shooting out there. >> get your old ass down. >> meanwhile, we got to raise jalen in this mess. >> you don't understand how dangerous it is. >> ya'll need anything? >> we got to take our streets back. >> why do you want to take this on? >> i didn't think we could do an authentic movie about a barber shop on the south side of chicago without dealing with what's really going on outside the barber shop, you know, right there in the streets. we want our movie to be real. we want our movie to be authentic. we want our movie to hopefully make people think and inspire. it was just the right thing to do was to try to rap this funny,
funny movie in this real-life subject. because, you know, people walk in the barber shop, they're not only roasting their favorite celebrities and politicians or whatever, they're also talking about the real issues that's dealing with their lives and calvin having a 14-year-old son, trying to keep him off the street, we felt like that was a universal story, universal message for sglereverybody. >> you mentioned politicians. we're at cnn. we've been nonstop covering this presidential race. are you following it? >> yes. >> thoughts? care to -- >> it's a circus. it's pretty wild, you know, it's pretty interesting. and i -- >> have you ever met trump? >> yeah, i met him once. >> how did that go? >> he was cool to me. >> i was look at lyrics from 2008 "stand tall" on the democratic side, then on top, never put your trust in hillary rodham because i can tell you now it's going to turn out rotten, keep on pushing, get 'em till we got 'em. how do you feel about hillary clinton now because a lot of entertainers are feeling the
burn. >> i feel the same way. all of them got work to do to get my vote. all of them have their good points. all of them have their faults. you know so we'll see what they do. i'm not feeling any of them yet. but, you know, it's a long time. we still got a few months. >> easy e. >> yes. >> passed away in 1995. what would he think knowing nwa is getting inducted? what would he say? >> what he would say to us as a group? >> what would he say? >> told you. i told you. that was his thing. he was the champion for this style of music. he was the champion for putting compton on the map. trying to put his city, you know, on the map, a city that very few people knew about, heard about. and, you know, he was able to accomplish that. and also, you know, in a lot of ways wake the world up to what was really going on in the streets of los angeles which is
happening pretty much in the streets of every kind of neighborhood or every hood in america. >> cube, thank you. >> always good to talk to you. >> ice cube, thank you so much. he is inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame by kendrick lamar. that ceremony, watch the entire thing play out april 30th on hbo. coming up next, we're learning more about the terror suspects arrested in belgium today. how they could be connected to the attacks at the airport. if you have medicare
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any minute now we will take a news conference that will begin with belgian authorities speaking on what has happened here. here's what we know at this moment. we'll show you a picture here. it's one of these men, mohamed abrini, has just been arrested. with the now captured salah abdeslam. the last named paris attack suspect is no longer at large. belgian media, meantime, is reporting this man here, the light jacket and the black hat this person they've been looking for since this happened, they believe he is, in fact, abrini. although cnn has yet to confirm this. this is what we're hearing from belgium. what we can confirm is this man osama krayem was arrested today, had a quote/unquote operational role in the attacks in brussels. so joining me now, nic robert n robertson, cnn international
diplomatic editor. gentlemen, welcome to all of you. jim sciutto to you first with regard to these two captures, what do we know about these two men? >> we know that both of them are central to two of the deadliest attacks in europe in history. deadliest terror attacks in history. abrini has multiple ties to the paris attacks. he drove salah abdeslam to paris two days before. he used a car that was used in those attacks on that bloody night and he drove abdeslam out of paris after the attacks. two of the terrorists who struck that night in paris had stayed. so multiple ties very central to that plot. osama krayem believe tied operationally to the brussels attack. how did they make this connection? because he met in a subway station not long before the
deadly subway bombing in brussels. establishing that connection there. both believed to be part of the same cell, the same cell that carried out both of these attacks. both of them of tremendous intelligence value if they can get any information out of them. that's going to be a real focus now is trying to learn what they don't know about this cell. how much of the network is still out there. are there any attacks in the works. whether or not he'll give that information, that's another question. that will be a real focus now, preventing further attacks by this same cell. >> so on that note, nic robertson, feel free to chime in on any more you know, these two men captured, but how will law enforcement determine who's still out there? >> the question is going to be one of the key ways. we do know a little more about krayem. he was in syria. he made his way in late september, early october, to
brussels. he did what two of the other paris attackers did. he went through greece. he posed as a migrant. pitching up on one of the islands where all the migrants were arriving. made his way with the my grants to a migrant center in germany. somebody sends him about 600 euros, about $600 u.s. dollars, sends him that money, then abdeslam or another drives from brussels to that migrant center and picks him up. we're seeing a pattern emerge here of just how much this paris and brussels terror attack cell was relying on hiding their operatives among migrants. that krayem had been to syria. so had training there. we don't know the full details of what his sort of specialty and role might have been, this operational role in the brussels attack, but clearly having these three people now, salah abdeslam, as well as these two arrested today that were
involved in that attack, both attacks, will give the authorities the chance to try to at least get some information out of them individually. they can play that off against each other. they can play the three of them off each other. it gives them more opportunities to round up more of the network. of course, a concern will be the same, as it was after salah abdeslam was arrested and came to be true. that isis remnants will try potentially to push other attacks in the coming days. >> as i've been listening to you, i think the same thing. sitting here on a friday talking about the big capture of salah abdeslam, the following tuesday was the brussels attacks at the subway station and the airport. art, to nic's point about using these two against one another, trying to get information, trying to make sure they are cooperative and they will talk, how do law enforcement get them to do that? >> i mean, they are -- nic is right, they are going to play each other off, but the one thing you want to do, when you
look at criminal organizations, you look at terrorist organizations, they operate similarly. you want to dismantle these organizations. as you recall back when abdeslam was arrested, law enforcement came out over in belgium and they really didn't know who they had. it took them a little while to figure out, oh, my gosh, we have abdeslam here. this particular arrest that occurred today, these two arrests, very big day for security forces and law enforcement in belgium. it appears to me that they're getting better intel they're getting better information. if you look over the last three weeks as to what has occurred since the abdeslam arrest, you've had multiple raids, multiple arrests, and i'm sure they've gathered tons of intel from computers and human intel from informants that led to this arrest today. it sounds like they actually knew who they had when they arrested these two individuals. which appears they're in the process of dismantling this
particular terrorist cell. >> let's hope so, thank you. jim sciutto, nic robertson, appreciate you as well. so there's that on terror. let's turn to politics. as i speak there are dueling rallies happening between the two democratic candidates for president. there you see bernie sanders, hillary clinton. bernie sanders holding a rally in brooklyn outside of the home where he grew up. secretary clinton speaking now in buffalo, new york. all of this ahead of the all-important cnn debate in brooklyn on april 14th. let's listen in. >> i know you've got to be vigilant, you've got to be prepared and you have to work with other people. you have to work with other nations. you've got to bring everybody in our country together. i am absolutely devoted to that. i took part in probably the most significant counterterrorism action we've ever taken, and that is the decision to go after
bin laden and -- [ applause ] i was in that small group advising the president, and he heard us all out. i advised him to go forward. but ultimately, it is the president's choice. and i was very grateful that he chose to go forward and to bring bin laden to justice and to make it clear -- [ applause ] >> -- what this country is about. the women's movement. let us not forget 100 years ago, women did not have the right to vote, could not get the education they wanted, could not get the jobs they wanted. women and their male allies stood up, fought back and said that women will not be second class citizens. 20 years ago or 10 years ago, if
we stood here and people said that gay marriage would be legal in 50 states in this country, few would have believed that. but as a result of the struggles of the gay community and their straight allies, we made that happen. if we were here five years ago and somebody said to me, bernie, you know, this $7.25 an hour minimum wage is a starvation wage, we're going to raise that wage to 15 bucks an hour, people would have thought that anyone who said that five years ago was crazy. but you know what happened? workers in the fast food industry had the guts to go out on strike, to fight for their rights. >> we will have more on the democrats in a moment. but to the republicans now today donald trump's new convention manager paul manafort talked
exclusively to cnn. i said convention you heard me, not campaign manager, because that is mana fort's purpose, to get trump a victory at the convention in july and manafort is confident his work will be done beforehand, because he says trump will reach the delegates he needs to guarantee the nomination. but in order to do that, trump has to get 59% of the delegates remaining. manafort, speaking to chris cuomo, seemed unfazed by the challenge. >> we're not talking about winning 30 votes in new york or whatever it was in utah. we're talking about winning, you know, over 80 votes in one day in new york. that sets the ship straight. there's pennsylvania, there's new jersey, there's maryland, there's connecticut. they is his wheelhouse. yes, california's going to be important. by the time we get to california, the momentum is
going to be very clear and ted cruz's path to victory is going to be in shambles. >> he's using -- cruz is using momentum now to his favor, right? you have to win the delegates, also keep them. put up the graphic of what's been happening lately. colorado, cruz has gone back, picked up six delegates. what he's doing in arizona. trying to recruit his own pro-cruz delegates. smart thinking obviously. louisiana he now going after rubio's pledge dell glads. a lot of the concern about this, to our understanding, is what fueled bringing you in, this guy's beating us at the game, is that true? >> you have to understand what the game is. if the game is a second, third or fourth ballot, then what he's doing is clever. but if there's only one ballot, what he's doing is meaningless. because these stolen delegates as he calls them, some of whom we're going to be able to do as well in the next couple of weeks, they still have to vote for trump on the first ballot. if it's clear in june trump is over the 1,237, these are
republicans. they're not going to vote to kill their party. they're going to come behind and maybe cruz will have a chance on the convention floor to give a speech. they're going to be in the -- the convention is going to be united. >> all right, let me bring in sara murray, she co-wrote this phenomenal in depth piece, cnn politics, called "inside donald trump's delegate strategy." nice to see you not in the middle of some crazy crowd out and about. >> nice to be here. >> hearing manafort talking to chris what do you think about him really drew trump do you think and what else is he doing? >> i think trump was hearing from people he needed, someone who knows this process. they have some friends in common who sort of brought them together. the interesting thing, when you hear him talk, yes, he is the convention manager, he is trying to get trump to win when it comes to the convention. but you want to get the delegates you need beforehand. he's not just going to be involved behind the scenes.
he's not going to be just involved in d.c. outreach. he's going to be involved in the strategy in the upcoming states. that's what we've seen by them strapping the schedule to go to colorado, and instead hunkering down in new york. the idea that he's just a convention manager and that he's just playing behind the scenes -- >> it's more than that. >> i think it kind of underestimates the role he is going to play, especially if he does manage to build this relationship with trump and trump trusts him to make his decisions and build his own empire within the campaign. >> trump ultimately, he's his boss, right, but how does this work with the campaign manager, corey lewandowski, then the convention manager and then trump? >> this is what's interesting. until now, basically everything in the campaign went through corey and corey went to trump. so to have another operative who's reporting it directly to trump is significant. it is a significant shift. right now essentially trump trusted corey. i no i think this is going to be the challenge. this is why we've seen sort of the butting of heads between the
campaign manager and managort so far because corey has to share power in a way he hasn't before and that power could spread even further if paul manafort does bring in new seasoned operatives to help with the clinching of the rest of these delegates. the campaign says more announcements in the next few weeks. we'll see just how big trump lets him build this empire within the campaign. >> convention manager that is where we are, sara murray, thank you. and in just four days, anderson cooper will moderate a town hall with trump and his family. that's right here on cnn. coming up next, all apologies. >> i did something yesterday in philadelphia. i almost want to apologize for. >> bill clinton back on the campaign trail today after being interrupted on stage leading with pretty heated exchange with supporters of black lives matter all with regard to his crime bill from 1994.
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just one day after clashing at black lives matter, former president bill clinton is speaking out now about how perhaps his exchange went or maybe not so well. >> i like and believe in protests. i'd be a hypocrite if i didn't because i engaged in some when i was a kid. but i never thought i should drown anybody else out and i confess maybe it's just a sign of old age but it bothers me now when that happens. so i did something yesterday in philadelphia i almost want to apologize for but i want to use it as an example of the danger threatening our country. we all have different experiences. we cannot learn anything unless
we listen. and we are already, just as i was yesterday, vulnerable to getting to some point where somebody says something, i don't want to listen to this anymore. >> here's a reminder of what happened at the rally when protesters heckled president clinton about that crime bill from 1994 he signed into law. also issue with the speech two years later in which hillary clinton referred to some youthful offenders as superpredators. >> wait a minute. now you're screaming. let's do another one. i don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out on to the street to murder other african-american children. maybe you thought they were good citizens. she didn't. she didn't. you are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter.
>> let's chat. i'm joined now with cnn political commentator mark lamont hill and heather mcdonald, senior fellow at the manhattan institute, author of "are cops racist." so welcome to both you. >> good to be here. >> mark to you first, do you think president clinton should apologize? >> well, apologies imply a level of contrition and if he doesn't feel he did anything for which to apologize, i don't want him to be dishonest. i do think he was wrong though. i think the way he engaged the protesters yesterday was inappropriate. i think the fact he marshalled in evidence that was inaccurate and unverifiable. it's been contradicted. i think it's troublesome. the fact he essentially another slight of hand here where he comes in and makes us think the protesters are the problem and they're endorsing the killing of 13-year-old kids. the truth is, hillary clinton made a bad choice based on -- bill clinton signed bad legislation and now they have to be accountable for it.
>> on the flip side, you believe bill clinton wasn't wrong, right? >> i think the most radical thing he said yesterday was to point out it was the african-american community who asked him to sign the 1994 crime control bill because their kids were getting shot by gangs and 13-year-olds were planning for their funerals. there is a need to recognize the truth that there are many people within the inner city community who support the police who want the criminals off the streets and that the policing revolution of the 19940s coupled with longer sentences for violent felons has saved over 100,000 black lives since 1994, had the crime levels been at their same rates, and that it was overwhelmingly -- >> can i ask you a question -- >> sure, mark. >> on what basis do you say that was responsible for the drop? i understand there was a drop but on what scientific basis do you make that claim?
>> because nothing else changed radically to explain why crime went down. there was a policing revolution that began in new york city where the police started targeting hot spots, using data, obsessively, holding commanders accountable. nothing else changed in new york. our poverty leaves remained the same. income inequality remained the same. yet we experienced an 85% drop in felony crime. the largest in the country and the most sustained. >> let me jump in because i have other numbers. hang on. >> equal -- >> hang on, hang on. i promise i'll get there. but just to another point on numbers. an equal justice attorney says america's prison population jumped from 300,000 to 3.2 million over the past four decades. president clinton would have had, as president, a role in this. so, heather, wouldn't the prote protesters be justified in calling out bill clinton? >> no, they wouldn't. prison remains a lifetime achievement award for persistence in criminal offending.
only 3% of violent crimes and property crimes actually end up with the offender in prison. a third of convicted felons end up in prison. most are given community sentences or jail time. you have to work very hard to get in prison. the overwhelming number of people in prison today are there for violent crimes and that is the people we need to get off the streets that are preying on innocent, hard-working -- the majority of people in minority communities who just want to enjoy the same freedom from fear as everybody else in the country enjoys. >> go ahead, mark. >> can i respond? okay, first, you marshalled in evidence from new york to speak to a national number which is inprecise. the other thing is, if you look at other places like california, michigan, other states in the '80s and '90s, the numbers went down as well, so it's not true to say it's purely that. the other piece of what you said is there's no other factor that contributed to the drop in crime.
again that is empirically untrue. one of the major contributors based on every criminal know logical study, every crime, things likes the drop in lead. these are things that affected a generation of people that made those so-called super predators you're talking about. what you saw was a generation of people who were not engaged in the same kind of structural problem. this was the economy and access to jobs during the '90s and early 2000s that also led to an drop in crime. to suggest aggressive policing fixes this is not the point. beyond that, what you always make is a straw argument. nobody on the left is suggesting we want crime. nobody on the left, nobody who's criticizing the clintons is suggesting people in the black community didn't want some form of redress to the problems that were happening. but to overpolice, to overcriminalize and to create three strikes legislation and a crime bill that overcriminalized people wallace not the solution. there are many more things like
community-based policing, like head start programs, leak access to health care, food, clothing, shelter, all that stuff makes crime go down too, not just heavily incarcerating people. when the clintons signed this bill, you're right. black people asked for it and black people endorsed it. just because a bunch of black people do it, doesn't make it right. the black people were wrong, clintons was wrong and hillary was wise to say she was wrong about this. bill clinton says i'm sorry but i'm not sorry. i'm sorry your feelings were hurt. i'm sorry you misunderstood what i said. that's why people are frustrated today. >> all right, heather, listen to mark on all those different points. i want you to respond. >> well, crime continued to drop during the 2008 recession. crime actually has very little to do with economic conditions. it was spiraling up in the 1960s as our economy was booming at probably one of its most having raus rates. crime is a problem
overwhelmingly of family breakdown. and until we can rebuild the family, the police are the second best defense. and the fact is that new york's crime rate dropped twice as much as any place else. of course the police have to behave constitutionally, they have to behave core turteously. they have to treat everybody with respect. i cannot go to a police community meeting in poor neighborhoods where it's in stroll brooklyn or south central los angeles where i don't hear those law-abiding people say, i want more policing, want the dealers off the corners. arrest them and they're back the next day. i want the kids off my stoop who are smoking pot. i'm scared to go down and get my mail because of the people loitering and trespassing there. those are the voices that are not heard in the public debate. and think part of bill clinton's frustration yesterday was the sense that, well, of course black people want lower crime.
but where are the protests when dozens of children are gunned down in driveby shootings? i don't think many people know the name of marques johnson, a 6-year-old who was shot in a driveby in march of last year as protesters were convening in ferguson, demanding the resignation of the entire department. nobody knows the names of the three children under the age of 5 who were killed in driveby shootings in cleveland in september. there needs to be some balance. yes, of course, let's bring attention to any police abuses. but if we could spend one-tenth of that attention talking about how to bring crime down in inner city neighborhoods above all by rebuilding the family, the discussion about policing is going to go nowhere. >> again, this stuff isn't really true. i mean, again -- >> final word, mark. >> you say there was no other factor -- there were other factors in new york besides intensified policing like the development of com stat which
allowed police to police more effectively. i'm glad you're now agreeing with the point -- >> but that's the policing revolution that spread nationwide. >> go ahead, mark. >> but the crime bill wasn't about -- but the crime bill wasn't about a policing revolution of information, it was a policing revolution of overincarceration, draconian sentencing and racially disparate treatment of different groups. yes, we should address black people who kill black people. that's not the point. we're not out here protesting black people who kill black people all the time. i expect police to not shoot me. i expect police to not be the judge, jury and executioner. i expect politicians to engage in humane public policy making and that's not what has happened and that's where hillary clinton must be responsible. once again, a void responsibility and make it look like any black person who criticizes her somehow doesn't care about safety and crime in the community is another irresponsible dishonest move by the clintons and that's what i
find so profoundly interesting but thank you for your time. >> can i just say one thing quickly right? the representation of blacks in prison is due to crime rates. the police go where the crime is. they wish they could not need to go in those neighborhoods. but they're there to save lives, not to oppress people. >> heather mcdonald and mark lamont -- >> that's simply not true -- >> we have to leave it. >> can we come back and talk about this? >> i want you both here. thank you both very much. >> thank you. in the race on both sides here, republicans, democrats, the candidates are trying to prove one is more new york than the other. the most populous borough in the city is both the birthplace of bernie sanders and headquarters of the clinton campaign. clinton, long expected to win her home state, but sanders mobilization of young diverse voters opens the opportunity to keep his campaign afloat and embarrass the front-runner. then you have donald trump with
his ubiquitous new york name, predicting his own primary sweep. michael smerconish. nice to see you. >> how are you? >> sorry. >> you solved the last one, let's get on to this. >> a lot more on that. we'll get back to that again. on the democratic side, this notion that now the bernie sanders camp is saying it will be an open convention, you agree? >> no, not unless he continues to win with an increased margin and pulls off an enormous surprise in new york. then you see pressure brought to bear on the superdelegates. what occurs to me is the superdelegates have been much maligned particularly by bernie sanders supporters in this election. like what gives them the right. on the republican side of the aisle, i think many republicans wish they had more of a superdelegate influence. because the purpose of those superdell the goods is to avert an election catastrophe come november. after the ds were blown out on a couple of occasion, they
instituted bringing in those quote/unquote professionals. republicans now look forward and say, hey, we could use this thing if it's donald trump and 73% of women. look at him with disapproval. so it's interesting to see they wish they had that influence is my point. >> what do you think ted cruz means when he talks about new york values? >> you know, brooke, today on radio for an hour, we played the tape, we opened the phone lines. it is the poll question today at my website. on one hand do you give him the benefit of doubt? is it just classic liberalism to him? is it an anti-semitic troep? a third of my audience, those who voted were in the later category, saying they see it as anti-semitism. i want to be fair to him. maybe he just said something that was boneheaded, maybe he just misspoke, but why did he use the words "money and media" is what i want to know. it was okay up until then. when he was sort of going through a check list of those things that he associates with new york liberalism. then all of a sudden when he talked money, when he talked
and it seems like this is another critical step in the case, because you have another individual in custody who can begin to fill in the authorities -- >> to talk. >> this is essential, too, not just perhaps who's in belgium, france, in the molenbeek neighborhood in brussels, but the pipeline itself. to understand the knows this is
positive step but no time for celebration on the part of law enforcement. they have to redouble their efforts to make sure they try to get any operational leads they can. maybe he talk, maybe he doesn't. there are a lot of things they can do to look and see who's he been talk to, who's he been in contact with. beyond the imminent threat of an operational cell. which did result in a mass casualty attack in brussels. there's the facilitator network. how are individuals that perhaps aren't even necessarily tied to this cell getting into europe once they've trained with the islamic state because this makes them much more dangerous. they pick up everything they need to pull off these kinds of attacks. hopefully, they will help the authorities and that's of course an open question because how do
you get somebody who's facing life in prison to talk, but hopefully thought get information that's helpful in preventing further attacks. >> i was talking to a law enforcement analyst earlier in the hour and he said since there's two of them, as they're being interrogated, information that one is given could be used with the other. they could sort of pit the two against one another, and that could benefit law enforcement in getting information. >> that's absolutely correct. it's a very helpful tool during the interrogation process because it gives you a way of immediately figuring out if somebody's essentially blowing smoke. if tlaerli ingthey're telling y that are false, the story's not going to line up with the other guy. this is even in old police movies you'll see this kind of thing. it is relevant to counterterrorism investigations as well. perhaps they'll leave out an individual. and then the other guy things i'll leave out this other individual. you start to put the puzzle pieces together that way. having two in custody is very helpful as a means of vetting information, seeing what the gaps are. the huge concern i know they
have right now in brussels and france is does this mean that somebody else knows that their days are numbered so they're just going for the attack right now. >> what about the other individual? so we've been talking about mohamed abrini who belgian authorities believe was the person in the hat and the light jacket at the airport. then there's osama krayem, went by a different name. we see this black and white photo released of him a bit ago. there is some sort of connection with the subway plot in brussels. >> yeah, he's believed to have been a part of that, and he also has personal connections into -- into abrini and into the abdeslam brothers. he's born in sweden. it's thought he went to train with the islamic state and came back. interesting that this would be -- this is somebody of a swedish citizenship involved in one of these plots. i believe it's one of the first times we've seen that connection into the paris and brussels nexus such as it is. this guy while he's not the mastermind, we don't really know, right. we sort of like to line these individuals up and say who was the planner, who was the
facilitator, who was the head, instructing everybody else? all it takes is a guy who has training with the islamic state who has the knowledge to make explosives like tapt and they may decide to go off on their own and conduct a one-man attack. his knowledge of operational cells and other individuals might be central. we don't know quite as much about him as we do about abrini at this point. >> how many people are left? is it even possible to know that answer? >> you start to feel like this is a situation where the surgeon has gone in knowing there's cancer and keeps finding more. on the one hand, that's positive because you're trying to, you know, you're trying to get it all out. on the other side of it, the more you find, the more worried you are it could be elsewhere. that's really the truth of this kind of a terrorist network. when you have such a large number of individuals involved. first of all, we're not even really cluster, the people around them who knew what was going on, maybe gave them assistance, criminal acts that wouldn't rise to terrorism per se but also gives you a sense of the
extension or some radicalization beyond just the people involved in the attacks. then have no way of knowing right now how many individuals are actually actively plotting this kind of attack in europe. the intelligence agencies who have not been made to look particularly on the ball recently, particularly the one -- particularly brussels. >> despite these captures. >> despite these captures. people will say the capture was slow. in fairness, they have tracked down some of these individuals. looking at the size and scope of the network, every time we find one of these individuals, it's likely there were others that were working with him in some capacity, that along the way, especially if he did transit along the migrant route, which is possible for krayem in particular. >> i believe we were talking to one of our analysts who was saying, indeed, he did come through greece with the refugees. >> that's what's believed now. krayem came through the migrant route. that will mean it's very possible there were others who either traveled with him or when he was with the islamic state, he knew were preparing to travel
back. they set up classrooms. they teach people how you get around. how you speak to border agents for example to get through. what is your story? they're not necessarily doing it one on one. he might have known who else was in that specialized jihadist training for plots against europe. >> buck sexton, thank you. quick break. back after this. it's all thanks to our birds eye chef's favorites side dishes perfectly sauced or seasoned. what are you..? shh! i'm live tweeting. oh, boy. birds eye. so veggie good.
in beauty where happiness is actually goal number one. >> this is a modern fairy tale. complete with kings and queens and dragons. it takes place in a real life shangri-la where wealth is not measured in gold, but something called gross national happiness. welcome to bhutan. a land of 740,000 serene monks and upbeat farmers and dancing archers, living in pristine forests and valleys, hidden from the world for centuries by roadblocks known as the himalayas. but that was once upon a time. today the roads are opening. the world is coming.
and all of this is at risk of massive change. >> bill weir, the man who has the best job at cnn. i keep it real. >> i have it on the business card. >> gross national happiness. like that is legit a thing there? >> it isegit a thing. when there was a young boy king, 17-year-old king, he took the crown. he came to the united nations and they said you're the king of a national country? what's your gross national product? and i said i'd prefer to measure it in gross national happiness. he took off his crown and gave the power to the people. he turned bhutan into a constitutional monarchy. they said we don't want to vote. we want you to take care of us. he knew the only way they'd survive is to maintain their culture. this amazing culture, this amazing nature that they have and this idea of happiness.
very shrewd. he knew it would only work if the people figured out how to make themselves happy. >> did i read a thing that you appeared in front of the camera without pants? >> no, i was wearing the traditional -- i call that wednesday. but in this case it was the traditional -- they wear these robes, raw silk robes because they have a national dress code. jeans and t-shirts are against the law during business hours because they're trying to preserve this. it's a place where people are moon-eyed over their king but not in a creepy way. if this was north korea this would be a much different story. so we're trying to go there, see how can this can last and when it comes to happiness, what do they know that we don't? >> i want in on that. >> we have pursuit of happiness in the declaration of happiness but they just chased it in a whole different way. >> "the wonder list" sunday night right here on cnn, 10:00. and now two major headlines involving the pope today.
one of them including bernie sanders. pope francis issued an official statement. believers won't necessarily see any sweeping changes but many worldwide are heartened to the pope's words to divorced catholics. bill donahue, nice to see you, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> so with what the pope has just done, what he's written in this proclamation, how will life change for divorced catholics? >> i think what the pope is saying is that the nuclear family is not just the only family, we've got to get beyond that. a lot of catholics live in irregular situations and there are a lot of catholics who are good catholics who did yet remarry without getting an annulment. he does not want to treat them with disdain and with contempt. he's not changing the bar in the catholic church. what he's trying to do is to try and help everybody clear the bar. there's a difference there. what he's saying is on a pastoral level, on a one-on-one
level, the priests need to minister to these people and see what they can do to bring them back into the fold. so while not a single church teaching has been changed, it's very clear that he's saying we can't just have a black and white kind of condition. there's no gps theological device that answers every difficult situation. >> on politics, what about bernie sanders? we know he'll be hopping a plane somewhere between our brooklyn debate next thursday and the big primary here in new york, he will be going to vatican city. why? >> well, good for bernie. there's a pontifical committee that deals with social justice issues and he'll certainly be welcomed, as he should. he's a good man. he and the church don't agree on some issues and nothing that the pope said changes anything on that. gay marriage got no recognition whatsoever. but he might find some simpatico when it comes to income
inequality. i think he'll be welcome, as he should be. >> how do these invites go down? what does an invite from the pope look like, bill? >> in this particular case you have a lot of different commissions over there and committees that deal with peace and justice, they deal with moral issues and the like. so it's not unlike -- it's not, you know, breaking new ground when you bring in people who might on one level look like they don't have much in common. after all, the mayor of the city of new york, who i believe is much to the left of bernie sanders, he was actually invited too. that raised some eyebrows, including my own. >> bill donohue, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.
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when you think of san diego, you perhaps might envision beaches, parks and perfect weather. for thousands of children life isn't pai paradise. this week's cnn hero steps in. >> when they're in the third grade and come on our field trip, they come over the hill on the bus and they see the ocean and they gasp, because it's literally the first time many of them have ever seen the ocean. it's a place of discovery to really explore their own potential in science all through studying the ocean. >> every year her group helps 6,000 children become explorers. i want to always remind you when we introduce you to these phenomenal men and women, if you know someone who should be a cnn hero, you can nominate them. and to learn more about these cnn heroes, go to cnn heroes.com. while there, nominate someone
who you believe has it to be the 2016 cnn hero. thank you so much for being here in new york. i'm going to send you a tad early to jake tapper. "the lead" starts right now. >> two major terrorists -- terror arrests and potentially a huge step in stopping the next attack. "the lead" starts right now. breaking news out of belgium. the key remaining suspect in the paris terrorist attacks captured and he's not alone. what could they know about plans for another isis massacre? also, one is the leader of the catholic church, the other a jewish kid from brooklyn who really wants to be president. both really big on fixing income inequality. bernie sanders is heading to the vatican as his race for hillary clinton gets a bit unholy. plus new york state of mind. donald trump going all in on his home state as he bends his strategy to fight off a delegate rebellion.