taxes and i'll stop. this is good for "snl's" business model, no question about it. does the president-elect, bill, have to get a thicker skin? do you think he knows what he is about to enter? >> i think he needs a skin. he doesn't even have a skin it's so thin. it's going to be -- he thinks this is bad now. when he's in office, it is going to be all over the place. every comedian everywhere. "saturday night live" has done this to everybody. this guy has hosted the show. he knows what it is about they stopped to say, by the way, he really did this. it wasn't even satire. >> the 16-year-old tweet's was complaining about cnn. it's showing the relevance of big, old-fashioned institutions. >> old-fashioned. "snl," "new york times" cnn. he's going after power. >> almost as big as the institution of the presidency.
you're not just going to throw it out. >> we're following a lot of news this morning. let's get right to it. >> i just ran outside and watched this warehouse burn. >> it's just a tragedy. noeas no easy answers. >> i have burns on my hands and my shoulder. >> within 12 hours we made it through one-fifth of the building. >> we anticipate the number of victims will rise. the conversations with the president of taiwan was a courtesy call. >> it's a phone call that breached nearly 40 years of protocol. >> the chinese will certainly see this as an infringement. >> they have taken our money and our jobs and manufacturing and they've taken everything. >> companies are not going to leave the united states any more without consequences. >> announcer: this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn cam camerota. at least 33 people are dead and dozens more still missing in
this massive warehouse party fire in oakland, california. that already high number is expected to increase. investigators still have tao go through 70% of the building searching for victims. >> this is still early on in the investigation. there are criminal investigations looking for the cause but the big concern right now is recovering those who were lost. there's so many families and friends waiting on word of the missing. dozens and dozens of people are not accounted for. this is the deadliest building fire in the u.s. in more than a decade. we have cnn stephanie elum live with the latest. stephanie. >> good morning, chris. i just spoke to the oakland battalion fire chief who said they had to cease operations around 10:00 p.m. local time because they were afraid the building might collapse. they were working with contactors contac contactors so they can regain acsis and find out if their
loves oned lost their lives in this fire. >> reporter: officials launching a criminal investigation team and an arson task force to inspect the deadly fire that engulfed this warehouse hosting a party over the weekend. >> it just doesn't seem that that is a fire that is survivable. so the reality for all of us is beginning to set in. >> reporter: of the confirmed dead a teenager and an oakland deputy's son. >> this tragedy has hit very close to home. >> reporter: with less than half of the two-story warehouse searched, authorities fear the worst. >> the number of victims will rise. >> reporter: they are removing debris bucket by bucket. >> our first priority is the humane and compassionate removal of the victims of this tragedy. >> reporter: the warehouse known as the "ghost ship" was an illegal residence. home to some artists. now currently under investigation for city code
violations for hazardous trash and debris and an illegal interior building structure. friday night's electronic dance party, one of many held in the space, operating without a permit when the building quickly erupted in flames. >> i broke my ankle, i need you to pull me out. >> reporter: one survivor, an artist who used the space describes the horrifying moment he had to leave his friend behind. >> i wasn't able to pull him out and the fire was getting too hot and the smoke was getting too bad and i had to leave him there. >> joining us now to discuss this tragedy is a survivor jose avalos and the fire marshal. gentlemen, thank you very much for being here with us. you were inside when the fire broke out. can you tell us what happened? >> it was around 11:20, 11:30 or
something. i just heard somebody yell out. fire! get me a fire extingwiser or come with a fire extinguisher and i was in my loft. i went to jump down to try to help and before i could even get down there, i heard another yell fire. everybody get out. so, i just grabbed my dogs and kind of broke through the front of my space. by the time i was through the front doors, i could just see the flames coming and then engulfed the front archway of my studio. i went through the doors and kind of fell into people and told them we need to keep moving forward. pushed forward through the door. i looked back and i just saw smoke everywhere. couldn't really see anything.
got out the building and i just saw smoke and then flames coming out the doors and the windows. >> jose, you were living in this warehouse. do you know how many other people were living in there? >> approximately like 25, something like that. >> and were you ever worried about the conditions in there? >> no, it was a live/work space is how i viewed it. so i used it to work and i just would sleep there. because that's where i had to sleep. but -- >> let me bring in mr. mcmullen for a second because we learned that three weeks ago the city of oakland started investigating this building. do you know why they already would -- what was wrong that
they thought was suspicious. >> well, it's my understanding -- >> hold on one second, jose, let me go to mr. mcmullen. >> it's my understanding that what the investigation was consisting of was illegal occupancy and trash and debris. and trash and debris is a violation of the california fire code and i understand that they were cited for that. additionally, it's my understanding that the occupancy was illegal apthere were no permits from the city. the city issues permits to occupancies and occupancies means use of a building. and the use of that building was permitted as a warehouse, it's my understanding. warehouse is a different occupancy than artists,
especially folks living there. that becomes a residential occupancy then. >> and the owner of this building needs to explain what was happening there and what he thought. but, jose, how do you think the fire started? >> i have no idea. i know it started in an area where people were not allowed to go. there wasn't that many people back there aside from people that had studio spaces there. >> yeah. >> it is possible that people could have gone back there, but i don't really know what could have started the fire. it could have been a number of things. >> and, jose, are all of your friends that you lived around and that you knew there, do you know where they are today? >> i've spoken with them.
>> is anyone still missing that you know? >> there's one person missing, but i don't really want to say any names or anything. i don't want to be disrespectful to his family. >> i understand. we've heard, mr. mcmullen, just how painstaking this search is for firefighters. a scene like this. could you explain to us where they even start trying to find the missing? >> well, the firefighters are doing a methodical search. and it's pain stakingly slow. you have to move very slowly in a fire such as this. and they begin in the areas which is burned the least. and that's where the fire has
finished its destruction. at that area they move to the area it is burned the most slowly and methodically to determine the area of origin. that is the area that the fire started. and the point of origin, exactly where the fire started. all of that has to be done prior to determining the cause of the fire. if you don't know where it started, the things you find that may have caused the fire are not necessarily indicative of the fire origin but maybe subsequent to the fire initiated those devices to create a false fire start. >> right. they have their work cut out for them, obviously. jose, thank you for taking time to talk to us. we wish you the best in the recovery there. mr. mcmullen, thank you for explaining all of this for us. obviously, we will be covering this throughout the program. another big story comes from
the world of politics. president-elect donald trump making news this morning naming dr. ben carson as his pick for housing and urban development. meantime, trump blasting china over the weekend in a series of new tweets. are we seeing the art of the deal acted out on the international level? right now we have this story covered for you. jessica schneider live outside trump tower in new york with more. always tough to cover, why trump does what he does when he says the element of surprise keeps him quiet. >> yeah, chris. a flurry of tweets coming from donald trump this weekend but chinese officials not commenting directly on those tweets. foreign ministry spokesmen saying they will not speculate on trump's actions but going on to reiterate the trade relationship between u.s. and china have always been mutually beneficial but continued uncertainty to what donald trump's approach will be to china.
the president-elect lashing out at china, only two days after his unprecedented phone call with the leader of taiwan. donald trump accusing china of keeping its currency artificially low. monetary experts say it's fairly valued and decrying their military presence in the south china sea. trump stepping up some of the tough talk from the campaign trail. >> they have taken our money and our manufacturing. they've taken everything. china is responsible for nearly half of our trade deficit. >> reporter: the timing of his tweets indicate the campaign promises could potentially become policy. over the weekend, china lodging a formal complaint about trump's call with taiwan's president. >> there was nothing more than taking a courtesy call, a congratulations. >> reporter: the "washington post" report that the call had been planned for weeks. experts warn the call carries major diplomatic risks citing the china policy which
considers taiwan to be a part of china. this is the first known communication between the u.s. and taiwan since 1979. trump also taking to twitter this weekend to threaten any business that leaves our country, warning of a whopping 35% tax on products shipped back into the country as retribution. trump will keep jobs in the country by slashing regulations. all this playing out as the president-elect is widening his list of contenders to be secretary of state. a process starting to look more like a reality show. >> have additional interviews with other candidates for secretary of state and other cabinet positions. >> reporter: former republican governor of utah jon huntsman president barack obama's first ambassador now in the running and general petraeus making a public case for the top post. >> five years ago i made a serious mistake and i apologized for it. >> reporter: arguing that his guilty plea for revealing classified information to his former mistress should not
disqualify hfor serving as secretary of state. >> i paid a very heavy price for it and i've learned from it. >> top adviser kellyanne conway saying interviews will continue this week for that secretary of state position. the intrigue continues out here with no real end in sight. conway saying the top post demands loyalty to the president. could that be potentially another jab at top contender mitt romney? we shall wait and see as we have been. alisyn. >> sure sounds like it could be a jab towards him. thank you very much for the reporting. breaking news, japan's prime minister shinzo abe is set to visit pearl harbor. propelling the u.s. into world war ii, of course. prime minister abe will be accompanying president obama to pearl harbor at the end of this month. you may remember president obama and prime minister abe travelled
to hauroche mu earlier this yea. somewhat reassured by a presidential vote in austria. in italy matteo rinzi will resign. the center left's leader is now planning to change italy's constitution rejected by nearly 60% of the voters. now, in austria, the elected, they elected a left-leaning pro-european president. alexand alexander van der bellen. >> a mixed message there. >> austria is a much more complicated situation than italy. we do have a heartbreaking update for you now in those deadly wildfires in tennessee. the bodies of that missing mother and her two daughters have been identified by
authorities. consstance reid and her kids were at home when the fire swept through the city of gatlinburg. her husband had been pleading for help in a search for them last week. the death toll now stands at 14. that is so terrible. we saw him just struggling with the unknowing of where they were and it's terrible to get that heartbreaking update today. >> too many in his situation. but the best to him and those who are trying to help him keep it together right now. we're just reporting on happenings in austria and italy. the effect of the new wave of populism is going on right here. the president-elect calls it his america first policy as part of this new movement to shore up his populist roots. we'll talk to a trump supporter in congress about the implications on people's lives next. end him a helping hand. ♪ ♪ put a little love in your heart. ♪ ♪ take a good look around...
so, are his pose proposals smart and realistic? we have a trump supporter darryl issa a republican from california. he is on the judiciary and foreign affairs committees. congressman, good to see you. >> good to see you, chris. >> so, do you have any reason to believe that what we just saw with taiwan and now these tweets about china are part of a thought out plan to somehow triangialate that situation. do you have any insight for us? >> i do. this is not just a plan, but an execution. remember that president obama had a pivot to asia, but that didn't do anything. china continued to build those islands, clearly plans to militarize them. has a space military program. so, when you look at one of your most important prepresidential meetings to be with the leader of japan who's deeply concerned about china's expansion and taking a courtesy call from the leader of taiwan. again, some would say
provocative. but let's understand what he's doing is part of a pivot to rebalancing china to start its expansion in a way that our next secretary of state is going to have to do every single day. >> two questions. first, you said taking a courtesy call from the president of taiwan. the reporting of "the washington post" is it wasn't a courtesy call. this was something that was thought out days or maybe weeks in advance. are you saying that is not true, it was spontaneous or something that was planned, if you know. >> donald trump has taken calls for most of the leaders and a few visits. he's limited his visits. they have a different impact and effect. but very clearly there's about 185 heads of state and a lot of other people high up in foreign governments who want to have a word to congratulate donald trump. to build a relationship if they didn't already have one. the substantive meetings he had
before the election with netanyahu all part of building important relations with important allies or, in some cases, with countries that we may have to go head-to-head on the world stage with. >> taiwan is different, right? especially as it is vis-a-vis china and the one china policy that the united states has embraced for decades. that's why i'm asking you if it was, in fact, something that the "washington post" said is planned or a courtesy call? >> i think it was both. >> can it be both? a courtesy call means that it came out of no where. the administration didn't know it was coming. >> chris, as you know, courtesy calls are scheduled at the presidential level. they don't just -- people don't just call donald trump on the phone. the fact is, though, that both the bush and clinton, w. bush and clinton administration began with faux pas in the china straits. forcing the fleet to move to be repositioned.
there have been mistakes early on by presidents. but this wasn't a mistake. this was part of saying i think candidly and appropriately to china that this is an american leader. this is an american president and he's going to be a world leader in a different way than his predecessor. he's not a world president and a world leader. he is an american president and world leader. >> okay. couple other beats this morning for you. there seems to be getting a little out of control on the political level. i want to see if you're willing to own a mistake and kind of move forward in this one aspect of this political debate here that you have mike pence on with george stephanopoulos and he seemed to get caught in the old kind of tug of war between your right to an opinion but not your own facts. let me just play it for you. >> his right to make false statements. >> his right to express his
opinion as a president-elect for the united states. one thing that is refreshing about our president-elect and one reason why i think he made such an incredible connection with people all across this country is that he tells you what's on his mind. >> and that's fine. but we both know that millions of people did not vote illegally in this country. we're not parsing, i'm not saying it was close, but you shouldn't say millions. it's no where close. it's a gross exaggeration. it's a falsehood. that is not an opinion. was it right for donald trump to say millions of people voted illegally? >> in every district in america especially those who don't have any kind of i.d. people do vote illegally. >> millions of people, congressman? >> one of the problems the press had with president-elect trump is they didn't take him seriously but they wanted to go into minutia about what he said. >> millions is not minutia. i get what you're saying. i get that we took him literally, not seriously and
people took him seriously and not literally. i get it. not about beating up the press. i am saying millions is not a handful, is not dozens. it's millions. it sends a mesage to the american people that we had a huge problem and it's false. >> chris, we do have huge problems in getting elections accurate and quickly and getting them believed by the american people. >> you believe that millions of people voted illegally, you believe that. >> i will hold you to your facts. you say dozens are handfuls. we all know out of 320 million americans it wasn't dozens of handfuls. >> we know many studies were done, congressman they came up with smaller numbers than that. i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in this analysis. the studies that have been done for months and years by respected outfit come no where close. >> chris, i love you, but you are, in fact, talking about dozens and saying out of 320 million americans it is a lot more than dozens. >> how do you know? >> in my own state, in my own
state, in my own election i had a pair of ballots where, obviously a spouse voted their dead husband. the fact is, illegal voting goes on. the question really is, are we going to restore confidence? you had a third-party candidate with no chance. no chance at all of being significant. demand recounts and if she had gotten enough money y guess she would have done it. >> look at the position you put yourself in. you have jill stein asking for a recount. i get your political opposition to that. >> it's not political opposition. chris, i love you, but you know you have to remember it's about bringing confidence back to the voting process. >> why would you say millions of people voted illegally? >> i will tell you why, chris -- >> that doesn't bring back confidence. >> president, let me answer. >> go ahead, congressman. >> we have to get a system that the american people believe in. when they show up at the voting booth and told to put their i.d.
away. they're not allowed to look at it. same-day balloting with no proof. you could have 50 people living in a single residence. i'm not saying there are millions or your underestimation of a handful. >> i'm just going with what the study said. >> we need to bring an absolute form of and president obama has been fighting against the things that will build confidence back into our voting system. by the way, we need to bring our voting system to be faster. i didn't have a recount, but it took 21 days to call an election and they then counted afterwards. we need to modernize the system and make it accurate and believed by the american people. that's all donald trump is getting america thinking about. i think that's a good thing. again, you show me a study after this that says handfuls -- >> i will. i'll send you several. >> handfuls is a number you can count on a few hands. >> i'll send you several studies
on this because i'll return the love you have for me. we should start with how we describe that system, as well. congressman issa, thank you, sir. democrats are pushing for hearing into donald trump's potential conflicts of hearings. will conflicts happen? we talk to a member of the house judiciary committee about it. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight.
all right. you just heard california congressman darryl issa support donald trump's false claim that millions of people voted illegally in november. what more does -- what do the democrats think about this? joining us now to discuss democratic congressman jerry nadler member of the house judiciary committee. good to have you here, congressman. >> good morning. >> what would you make that so many high-level thing that somehow millions of people illegally voted. are we not to trust the outcome of this election? >> first of all, we don't know that they think that. we know they say that. >> what is the difference? the fact that our leaders are saying this, shouldn't we be
worried about this? >> we should be worried about the fact that darryl issa and donald trump and others tell the american people an out and out lie that millions of people voted illegal when there's no evidence for this and then say the american people don't have confidence in the election. we know what the real game is. the real game is to use this basically nonexistent impersonation voter fraud as excuse for voter and low-income people or people born in urban areas or younger people don't have. >> that's what this is about. this is about a push for voter i.d. laws. >> for voter suppression of various types. >> you heard what congressman issa just said. in my district alone, i know of a couple. >> prove it. i don't believe a word darryl issa ever says. prove it.
and found less than 30 cases of impersonation voter fraud that could be verified. people have been talking about -- what we do know is that the voter i.d. laws and other laws putting into place to deal with this nonexistent voter fraud does disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of legal voters. >> i talked to a panel of donald trump supporters who also told me that they believe that millions of illegal people voted. what are we to do? how do you get the message out to americans that they can trust the institution of voting in this country? >> that's a good question. how do you differentiate now between out and out lies, which are being promoted all over the internet and now by some of our leaders, by the president-elect. when he says millions of people voted. you demand, show some evidence. you can't simply say millions of people voted. 22 people murdered somebody else. you have to demand it and the
media has to demand the evidence. >> we have demanded it and even republicans, secretaries of state. secretaries of state in every state say they have no evidence whatsoever of what president-elect trump is talking about. they have come forward to say that in their states they saw nothing of the kind. >> these are republican secretaries of state, too. millions of people will believe it because they hear it repeated by right wing radio, tv, blogs, et cetera and by a person who should have some scruples of what he says. >> you wrote a letter to the chairman of your house judiciary committee along with 15 of your other fellow democrats asking for him to hold hearings into donald trump's potential conflicts of interest regarding the trump organization and his businesses all around the world. what are you most worried about? >> well, we're worried about almost everything. the fact of the matter is this is the first president in 40 or
50 years who hasn't revealed his taxes. so, we know he's got huge business interests. we know he has huge business interests in at least 20 different countries. we don't know what they are. we know some of what they are. we know that he held a meeting with his business partners in india with indians with his business partners in india. he will turn his business to his children and then one of the children sits in with the prime minister. the constitution is very clear that you can't get gifts from a foreign leader. we don't know about that. >> there is no specific law that would make him have to step away from his organization. >> the fact he said that conflicts of interest don't apply to him. in our letter we cite conflict of interest laws that don't apply to the president and conflict of interest that do apply to the president by their terms. what he said reminds me so much
of what richard nixon said. if the president does it, that means it's legal. it does not. >> chairman goodlatt is a republican. if he doesn't agree to hold a hearing, then what is your recourse? >> the only recourse is public opinion. because in the house, the majority party really does control much more so than in the senate. hopefully we will be able -- well, the other recourse is republicans. i mean, some republicans who are honest people, and there are some, will have to say that this is just too raw. it's a huge conflict of interest. some we see and some we don't. >> have you talked to some of your republican colleagues about whether they would get on board? >> not yet. when the new session starts, we'll be doing that. >> thanks for being on "new day,." donald trump is putting companies on notice. if you send jobs overseas, if
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"credit karma huh?" "yeah, it's free." "credit karma. give youself some credit." the president-elect donald trump firing off a flurry of tweets threatening u.s. company physical they move jobs overseas, if they leave, it will come with a heavy 35% tariff tax, whatever you want to call it. will it work? is it legal? let's bring in host of "quest means business" richard quest and chief strategist for horizon investments greg vallier. gentlemen, thank you to both. the first question is on the idea of can would be with this be legal? richard quest, you say there is a tough question there.
>> the law is not supposed to target individuals or individual companies. you target behaviors, you target sectors, you target industries. >> wouldn't leaving be that behavior? >> no. how would you define it? how would you define when a company decides to move jobs to another jurisdiction on normal grounds? >> like carrier. if carrier, they would have a tariff coming back of o35%. >> depends if it's a general law against any company moving any jobs overseas, that could be legal. but then you have things like the bill -- this is a mine field. it's a legal mine field but it's also a political or philosophical one because what it involves is governments picking winners and losers. why go for carrier and not its competition. its competition turns around and says you've got this, what are we getting in return? >> greg, do you agree?
>> i do. i think the "wall street journal" editorial page agrees with richard and sarah palin of all people said over the weekend that this is crony capitalism and intrusion by a government into private business decisions. this is going to be a really interesting subplot for the next four years. issues where trump disagrees with his own conservative republicans. >> all right, well, let's leave the political huff and puff aside for a second and let's talk about the policy considerations. what richard was just pointing out. the idea of an inducement to one creates a need by competitors and the strain on the competition base of carrier and its workers to have to make up for the inducements that carrier just got. how real are those economic considerations? >> well, they're very real and i think they could lead to litigation. if i'm a shareholder and i see a company that could have made a lot more in profits had they moved and they don't move, i think there's grounds for a
suit. >> you've also got the raw question of companies making economic decisions as greg rightly points out on the basis of shareholder value. of what makes commercial sense. >> trump did it himself. he makes his clothes and other products abroad because it was chiefer. >> we are all men and women of the world. companies like boeing that would be considered strategically vital to the u.s. economy where maybe things have to be done slightly differently. you're talking about a smaller air conditioning company in indiana, which could have received state help if the governor had chosen -- >> governor mike pence and now the vice president elect, he could have done this with carrier. he did not. >> let me ask you one other question. who is president of the united states at the moment? the old rule, the old rule that you only have one president at a time, what is donald trump doing interfering in the carrier decision or, indeed, in the taiwan decision, until january
20th. >> the carrier decision is a state decision. they're going to get state incenti incentives. that could be the governor did it. >> but he signed off on it. >> every company in america is going to have to look over their shoulders worried that government will interfere in their business decisions. this is a chilling precedent that has been set. >> here's the thing you have to deal with is that millions of people in this country would hear what valliere just said and said good, enough for driving the rest of the companies. good for trump on dropping the hammer on them. i hope he passes this tax. now, how does that work as a reality? >> can you let richard get in? >> the election that was on the basis, disadvantaged, he is doing what he said he was going to do. he is punishing the companies who was going to put themselves before the people. >> how would cnn feel if the government gave a subsidy to
msnbc or fox? >> they need it. they need it because we're eating their lunch on a daily basis. >> you take my point. you take my point. how would they feel? every time you intervene in the marketplace, the other side says what about me? where's my side of the equation? it's a dodgy road to go down. >> what about the families who just had their bacon saved by donald trump? >> it's a great public relations victory for trump. no question. >> greg, richard, sorry to get you so exercised at this time of the morning. thank you, gentlemen. >> okay. meanwhile, the air strikes are intensifying in syria as government forces reclaim more of the country's largest city. we will take you to the front lines and the shocking images from inside aleppo.
shrinking. we have cnn's senior international correspondent fred pleitgen is reporting from the incredibly dangerous front lines of aleppo. >> driving through a destroyed wasteland, that until recently was one of the main battlegrounds in syria. aleppo's hanano district was in rebel hands until last week when government forces moved in with crushing firepower. a 13-year-old shows me where a rocket landed next to his house, and describes the fear he felt. we were very, very frightened he says. normally you would hide in the basement but luckily that night we slept on the first floor because that's when two rockets hit right over here. his little brother abdul car up is clearly tom advertised by the horrors he's witnessed and still weak from living under siege for
weeks. as the rebels lost their grip on this place, many residents fled, trying to escape with their lives, and not much more. now, they're coming back. some haven't seen their houses for years. khalid left in 2012 when the rebels took this strict. now he's trying to salvage any belongings in what's left of his apartment. i am very sad, because everything is either destroyed or ransacked, he says. we found these pictures under the rubble. the because are destroyed. but we will come back here and rebuild. the battle for aleppo is far from over. but syrian government forces clearly have the upper hand. taking about half the rebels' territory in the past week alone and continuing to push their offensive with massive firepower. like in so many districts that have been taken back by the syrian military there is massive destruction in parts of eastern aleppo but there's no denying
the shift in momentum in favor of the syrian military and also the boost in morale that many of their soldiers have gotten. troops loyal to syrian president bashar al assad tell us they believe they could capture all of aleppo, syria's most important battleground, very soon. the rebel headquarters was right here, he says, so the loss of this district was a big blow to them. you can see how our shelling is pounding them. that shows that their morale is collapsing. rebels left behind a makeshift cannon when they fled here last week. so far the opposition hasn't found a way to shore up their defenses in the face of this massive, and possibly decisive syrian government offensive. >> fred, thank you for taking the risks and bringing us that coverage. you took the time to show the face of the future there puday, abdul war up, thousands and thousands of kids like them.
is there any sense on the ground that when this is over, when the fighting stops, that there's any life there for them? >> well, you know, i think that's going to be very difficult. and we were speaking to these children and it really is quite sad to see the state that they're in right now. they have absolutely nothing all their belongings have been destroyed. and they've also been really traumati traumatized. a lot of them really are scared. they're jumpy every time they hear mortars go off, which still happens a lot. you can feel just how traumatized they are. if you're asking about the future that's certainly something that many people here in aleppo are very pessimistic about. many of them don't believe that there's going to be any sort of political sliegs here to this conflict. many of them believe that there is going to be fighting all the way until the end. and certainly if you speak to the syrian soldiers, they say they believe that they could take rest of aleppo away from the rebels within the next couple of months, possibly by as early as christmas. but of course that means more fighting, more dying, and of
course, especially more children suffering in the middle as unicef said, chris, that about 100,000 children might still be trapped in besieged areas of aleppo. chris? >> oh, gosh, it's just so heartbreaking. fred, thank you very much for sharing all of that. well, the situation in syria is one of many international crises facing president-elect trump. and trump is sending shockwaves through the international community with some of his calls with foreign leaders bucking decades of u.s. diplomacy. is he signaling a shift in u.s. foreign policy? joining us now is host of fareed zakaria rps. good to see you. >> pleasure. >> let's talk about the call to the leader of taiwan. it's hard to -- at first president-elect trump made it sound as though this is just a courtesy call and of course he takes this courtesy call. then we find out through reporting that it was planned for weeks. so what does this signal? >> well i think it could signal that trump is searching for lunch with china, which is not a bad thing.
i think the key here is that it should be part of a thought-through strategy where they have figured out here are the things we want from china, here are the points of lunch we're going to use in that context, making some overtures to taiwan is not a bad idea. just the way in which it was done and the fact that for example no allies of ours seem to have been informed of it, whether it's the japanese or the south koreans, the kind of twitter-based diplomacy, if you will, that's the part that i think is not just throwing some of us in the united states off, but many people around the world. you know, people look to american foreign policy as a kind of bedrock of international order. so they want to see it strategic, carefully planned, but the -- the substance of it, i think people are getting overly critical. the truth of the matter is, we need leverage with china. china is a country that cooperates with the united states on many issues. but on many issues we need to be
able to push them harder. >> this was part of trump's sell. you have a great piece in foreign affairs magazine which is worth reading and taking the time to get it because a lot of this is very complex. but some of the ideas that you boil down is, that this populism that we're seeing across europe, and that we saw here in the united states, is more about culture now than the traditional economic models that it used to be based on. and that trump even with what he's doing with china is letting people know you are not forgotten. you matter. we're going to take you country back for you. how does that work? >> you're exactly right. the biggest shift that's taken place in voting, and you see it with trump, is this move from economic -- through most of the 20th century if you wanted to predict how somebody was voting you'd say, how rich are you? and working class people voted left, upper middle class people voted right. what's happened now is that the single best predictor of how somebody is going to vote in an
american election is probably their views on gay marriage. it's their views on abortion. it's their views on all these cultural issues because they have supplanted economics as the key dividing point and part of that cultural idea is this idea that trump represents which i'm going to take care of america. america first. i'm an american nationalist, not a globalist. it's more a cultural stance -- >> is that right? because isn't the key divide in the united states geography? that you could predict how somebody is going to vote based on where they live and when you ask the trump supporters how they felt about transgender bathrooms and gay marriage, they said, please, that's something that the elites, the media elites focused on. i focused on whether the refinery and factory in 3450i town is closed down. >> no but as i'm sure you know a lot of good research trump supporters by and large are not that forward. they're doing reasonably well. mostly actually they don't live with immigrants. it's the fear of immigrants. so when you look at even those
rural white voters, what they are expressing is this feeling that the city elites, you're right, the big divide with city versus rural, but it's become a cultural issue. there's a lot of very good pieces from people living in rural america saying, you know, we hate the idea that the whole of america is dominated, obsessed and fascinated by cities. how do you think that makes people like us feel. >> right. >> all the movies are set in the cities. >> they feel forgotten. >> and so it's -- what i mean is, it used to be very simple. if you were a working class guy in a factory you understood that the democratic party was your party. if you were a professional living in the city, now it's all mixed up. it's the professionals who are voting democrat. it's the working class whites who are voting republican. >> for people who are tracking this internationally, what is the difference between what happened in italy, and austria? >> in austria, you had a ceremonial election. the presidency is a ceremonial position and the right wing, you know the right wing populous
lost. in italy the opposite happened. why did that happen? the italian one is part of the wave. the populist wave that's going around anti-establishment you know very much part of the trump win, it's part of brexit. in the austrian case the guy, the right wing populist running, this was a party founded by essentially former nazis so it may have been one step too far. he lost. but he lost narrowly. i don't think it changes the fact that you have a wave of right wing anti-establishment populism running throughout the western world. it is largely, as i point out in that article, largely response to migration. the because, you know, if you look again at economics, sweden is doing very well, germany is doing very well. they still have right wing populist movements. the core here is everywhere you see right wing populism you see migration, and migration of people who look very different. >> same things we heard in france and in belgium you're now hearing in italy. what does it mean to be italian again? who are we?