tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN December 9, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PST
dylann roof's shocking confession to the massacre at the black church in charleston, south carolina. what he told investigators now part of the evidence in his trial for the 2015 mass shootings. >> i went to that church in charleston and i did it. also breaking tonight, president-elect donald trump taking his thank you tour to grand rapids, michigan. we still don't know who trump will pick to be his secretary of state, but we know who's not getting that job, and that's rudy giuliani, one of trump's staunchest supporters during the campaign. out of the running for that position, and any other post in trump's administration. what's that all about, we'll discuss. let's get to tonight's political developments in just a few moments, but first i want to begin with dylann roof's video confession. cnn's paolo sandoval is in charleston for us this evening.
paolo, good evening to you. you're in charleston. you have been in the courtroom. describe some of the testimony you've heard. >> reporter: this has been heart-wrenching testimony here for so many people, heart-rending testimony for so many people who have been sitting in the courtroom now for about three days now, listening to the testimony, perhaps the strongest testimony coming from one of the survivors in that shooting, phylicia sanders, who watched as her son and aunt were shot and ill canned that summer day last year. but, perhaps you'll remember, the most significant development here, something many people had been waiting for, that confession video of dylann roof shot the day after he went into that church and shot and killed nine innocent people. in it you can clearly see and clearly hear the now 22-year-old self-described white supremacist say that he did it. and also why he did it. his main objective, according to what he told investigators that day, was to simply start a race war. the video is quite lengthy. they played the whole thing, about two hours long here, for
12 jurors who sat silently watching that video. and what was interesting here, don, from roof himself, no emotion whatsoever. he sat at the defense table. his eyes fixed on the table here, with nothing to say and actually no reaction as those investigators spoke to him the day after the shooting, and of course, he continued to go on several rants as to why he decided to go into that church and take the lives of those nine innocent individuals, don. >> and what about his mother? what happened? >> yeah, this was a significant development that took place early this week. some very powerful and dramatic testimony, and graphic testimony that took place, so much so that actually his mother suffered from a medical condition, actually, a heart attack, according to what several sources are telling us and had to be removed from the court there and treated for her condition. don't know a whole lot more on what took place after that, but again, it just goes to show this has been an extremely emotional three days of testimony.
many people here asking why it's necessary, now that this confession video is actually there. why go through a jury trial. at this point, the defense, it all comes down to saving the life of their clients. they have already offered a plea deal in exchange for a life sentence, don. but federal prosecutors declining that offer. they are asking for the death penalty in this case. >> paolo sandoval for us in charleston. thank you, paolo. appreciate that. i want to bring in now, with forensic psychologist, dr. javier amador. good evening, doctor. thank you so much for joining us. today jurors watched dylann roof's confession. he told officers that he thought he had shot and killed five people. when he told them it was nine, he said, well, that made him feel bad. investigators talked about his -- said that he got his views on race, they were awakened by the trayvon martin case. i want you to watch this and we'll discuss. >> okay. >> i went to that church in
charleston and, you know, i -- i did it. >> did what? >> well -- >> i mean, you -- >> um -- >> i know it's tough sometimes to say it. >> it's not that i don't want to say it, because i don't want to make myself steeem guilty. i just don't really like saying it. >> sometimes we have to face those things, the realities, you know? >> we don't want to put any words in your mouth, that's why agent stansberry is asking you exactly what it is that you did do. >> right. well, i did -- i killed -- i mean, i guess. i don't really know. >> well -- >> i don't know how many people or anything. >> did you shoot them? >> yes. >> what kind of gun did you use?
>> a glock .45. >> okay. >> hmm. >> why do you think it was so hard for him to say those words? >> i'm not sure. but i am very struck by the fact that he is so emotionless. and you can see that in one of two ways in my experience. having worked with -- worked on many death penalty trials involving people with mental ha health issues, which his defenders, his lawyers back in july said he had, indifference, depraved indifference. or a real flat affect. what i'm impressed with in talking to journalists who have been in the courtroom all week, they're describing someone who speaks, like what we just heard, slowly, with no emotion. and earlier you said when he found out that more people had died than he realized, he actually was confused and incredulous and didn't believe what these detectives were telling him. they didn't believe that, in
fact, nine people had been killed. made him feel bad. but also, it's noteworthy, don, it was really surprising to me was not only his surprise, but his -- how incredulous he was and kind of dig organized about it. like, what do you mean, i killed nine people? >> well, his defenders, his attorneys have said that he suffers a mental -- but that doesn't mean it's so, correct? >> that doesn't mean it's so -- >> but that's his defense? >> that is potentially a form of defense. back in july, they filed a notice to present mental health evidence during phase ii, the guilt phase. which now, dylann roof has said he wants to be his own attorney during that phase. >> we're going to discuss that a little bit more. but he could just be a flat-out hater -- >> he absolutely could be a -- a white supremacist who hates people. and i looked at that very carefully. and i have a lot to say about whether the data, whether what he says, what others have remarked on, fits that categorization that he, himself,
made. >> let's listen to more of him describing the shooting. >> i mean, they reacted after i shot. >> yeah, we understand that. i guess my question -- i was just trying -- you know [ inaudible ] i pulled a gun out and everybody saw it, people might start to run or -- >> oh, no, no, no. it was very fast. it was not like i was, like, you know. it was like a quick motion. >> can you show what -- were you sitting down and did it or were you standing up -- >> yeah, i was sitting down. >> can you show me what you did? >> yeah, i just like -- >> like this or --? >> yeah, like -- >> and just start shooting? >> yeah. >> -- at people? and we'll go back and ask you some more questions. >> yeah, i had it in the bag. >> it was in the bag? >> the bag's there, i dropped it. it was a thing you can buy at a sporting goods thing, you know, for military people, or
whatever, their vest or whatever. but i just put it in my belt. and it had all the magazines and the gun in there. >> what stands out to you. because to me it sounds like he's describing his day, like, i went to the grocery store and i -- >> almost like a laundry list. that could be depraved indifference, what most people think of as evil, or flat affect, a common symptom of schizophrenia, which is by far the most common serious mental illness that has ended up in capital cases such as this. >> he has -- roof has said that he became a white supremacist from the internet. let's listen to this. >> would you consider yourself a white supremacist? i know sometimes that's hard to -- but that white people are superior? >> a white nationalist. not a white supremacist. >> what's your definition of the two, then? you're saying you're not a white supremacist, you're a white nationalist. in your mind, what's the difference. >> how about this. i do consider myself a white supremacist, sure. white people are superior. if that's what you mean. >> reporter: white supremacist,
white nationalist, which we have been dealing with a lot in the news lately. what's your reaction to that? >> my reaction to that, when you put that together with his manifesto, the last rhodesian, is that i don't think he really knows what he is. look at his manifesto and look at this statement. he says, my whole life changed. i was not raised in a racist household and my whole life change the day i decided to look up trayvon martin. remember that case, of trayvon martin? looked up the wikipedia page and he writes in that manifesto, my entire life changed that day pip then search for black-on-white hate crimes, crimes and i knew then that something was terribly wrong. and he goes on to say that based on this one day of internet searching, he converted to this, whether it's white nationalist, white supremacist ideology. but it sounds very much, very,
very much like what we would call in our field, in my field, a delusion of reference. you see something, something innocuous, one article on wikipedia and suddenly his whole life changes? suddenly -- there's no trajectory of being indoctrinated. there's no journey of his having difficulties with other races. and to top it all off, why aren't asians, billions of asians, included? he makes a point of saying, they're not part of the races, the inferior races. in fact, they could be our allies. that doesn't fit with any white nationalist or white supremacist doctrine that i'm familiar with. that sounds a lot like an idiosyncratic, probably delusional belief. certainly his attorneys have him evaluated, certainly the judge looked at that evaluation. the judge didn't say he was not mentally ill, he simply said he could stand trial and be competent. >> frightening. more of our breaking news coverage of dylann roof's shocking murder confession right after this break. ordinary tissues left dakota's nose sore and red.
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we're back now with our breaking news, accused killer dylann roof confessing to the murders of nine people inside a charleston south carolina church last year. that video played in court today. i want to bring in attorneys mark o'mara and riva martin and also dr. xavier amador is back me. let's talk about this, mark. first, more of the confession video. >> you pulled out the gun and you shot them? started shooting people? or how -- i mean, how -- >> yeah, that's it.
>> i mean, so do you know how many people you shot? >> if i was going to guess, five. maybe. i'm really not sure, exactly. >> well. >> four, five. i'm not sure. >> did you say anything to them before or after or during? >> no, i didn't say anything to them before or anything. >> so, mark, i mean, he later said he felt bad that he killed nine people. compare and contrast this confession with others you have heard? >> this is almost a new breed, as dr. amador said, the complete flat affect. there's no remorse whatsoever. there's no emotional connection to it. there's not even an emotional connection to the cause. it's not like he was a zealot who came out and said, yes, i
did it, here's why. even everything that he says, he finds it out from a web page. if how had googled, you know, the search that he had done on the south carolina web page, literally, emanuel ame church is first up. and that's probably where he got it from. even the church was this coincidental -- so, you know, the fbi agents did a good job of getting him to confess to everything. they did a good job as fbi agents to do away with any active psychosis or insanity that may have been argued down the road by defense. but this is frightening in that it is almost a new breed. i don't know how else to say it, of somebody that can do something with a complete lack of caring, a complete lack of focus, almost, and even afterwards, have no remorse. >> let's listen to a little bit more here. >> let me make sure i'm clear on this. you have already said -- if it
wou wouldn't have been black people in that church, you wouldn't have walked in there and shot them. your belief, your understanding that a lot of people in america and the world is doing, the times and everything else, and it was a retaliation or a -- >> right, you know. realizing, these people, criminal black people kill innocent white people ever day. >> what was your point then? >> you said these people were in church, they're innocent. so what was the point of targeting them? >> because i just knew that would be a place where there would be, you know, at least, a small number of black people in one area. >> riva, what's your reaction to that? >> this is such chilling testimony from dylann roof. we also know from this videotape
it wasn't like he could go into an african-american community, so he targeted the church, because he knew african-americans would be there, but suggesting that he didn't want to go into a community where there would be lots of african-americans. so, in many ways, he knew they were vulnerable, he knew that that was a place are he could exert power and control over them. i think it's important to note that this is a federal capital murder case, and it's a federal case, because this is a hate crime case, and the fbi agents did do a great job in getting him to confess that the purpose of these murders was solely based on race. these people were targeted because they were african-american, and his actions towards them were solely based on his belief that white people are better and that african-americans are somehow inferior and deserving to be killed. >> did it -- was it surprising to you, doctor, that when he said "why," he kind of didn't know. he had to think about it. >> there was kind of a long pause. and i have to disagree with
areva, i didn't hear anything in his statement about, i'm targeting this inferior race of blacks. >> he said, i knew there would be black people here. >> but if you read his manifesto, it doesn't make sense or fit with what we know about white supremacists, white nationalists. all of the races are inferior. he excludes asians. it's inidiosyncratic. he seems confused, even, to why he the did it. >> areva? >> you can argue that it's idiosyncrat idiosyncratic, but if you listen to the entire confession and read the manifesto and letters left by him, he was targeting african-americans. he could have targeted latinos or asians, but he targeted black people in a black church. and we can't dismiss that. >> no. >> that means that black people was the target of his hate. >> that's not my point and that's not really what i was saying. >> yeah. go on. >> i many point was, his previous statement was that he's doing this to spark a race war.
nothing else that he says, or even the way he behaves indicating that, in fact, that's what he's doing. so, yes, he was targeting black people -- >> just not organized enough? >> he appears very disorganized and he appears with these long pauses before he answers, which is how he is in court, as well, and the sort of almost laissez-faire attitude, he was asked, did you do this to be a martyr? long pause, and he said, um, that would be nice, i guess. there's no sense of conviction, is really what i meant. not that he wasn't targeting african-americans. >> mark -- go ahead, mark. >> don, i think we may be assigning to him too much credibility. we're trying to look at him and say, here's his principles, here's his intent, here's this well-thought-out plan. >> that was my point when i said, maybe he just wasn't organized enough. >> he didn't know what month it was. >> it doesn't matter -- >> he didn't know what month it was during that interrogation. >> go ahead, mark. >> this is a hate crime because there's no question he focused
on black americans. no question about that at all. whether or not his manifesto makes a great deal of sense, i've read it, it doesn't make a great deal of sense except to say he has disorganized thought and for the most part, he doesn't like blacks. and he took that thought, wherever it came from, from the trayvon martin case, from looking at and the ame church online, and he decided to act on it in a way that meets all federal hate crime law. but we have to look at what's going to happen and what matters. not his actual guilt, even though we have to look at slager and question jury's abilities to convict under good evidence, there's no jury that's not going to convict roof of this. the question really is, will they come back and say there's enough unknown here, there's enough subtle dysfunction that they're going to salvage his life and not sentence him to the death penalty. and if anything's happened here in an organized fashion, it's his attorneys who are trying to prevent in the beginning the
mental dysfunction they're going to focus on in the penalty phase. >> that will have to be the last word. thank you all. up next, rudy giuliani, out of the running to be donald trump's secretary of state. per roll bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty, the quicker picker upper oh, that's lovely...so graceful. the corkscrew spin, flawless... ...his signature move, the flying dutchman. poetry in motion. and there it is, the "baby bird". breathtaking. a sumo wrestler figure skating? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money heather saved by switching to geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. my new beer, stella artois, hey cois finished. the people will love it.
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breaking political news tonight. rudy giuliani out of the running for secretary of state or any position in donald trump's administration. i want to bring in cnn's national correspondent, john king, and presidential historian, douglas brinkley, executive producer of presidential sweep. good evening, gentleman. to mr. king, you first. donald trump was in michigan tonight, another stop on his thank you tour. it is a blue state that he turned red. what did we hear from the president-elect? >> he was quite happy, don. he said, for starters, he was glad the recount was over. the courts in michigan today shut down the recount. he said they were going to start saying merry christmas in the united states again. i guess he they thinks the politically correct barrier has been broken by his election. he made a couple of economic elections in that blue collar blue state you're talking about. he said number one, the chairman of dow chemical will be the head of a new manufacturing council that he hopes to create jobs here. and without the specifics, we're going to have to ask ford motor company for specifics, but ford
was making a big announcement, they had made a promise to him, and he expected some new jobs that would be in michigan. we don't have the specifics on that, but we'll keep asking. >> of course, we will. john, i've been wanting to talk to you about this since it was announced. donald trump, he rewards loyalists. so what do you make of rudy giuliani no longer in the running for secretary of state? it's being spun as, he took his name out of the running, huimsef out of the running, but do you believe that's clear? >> i think he took his name out of the running when the one job he wanted, secretary of state, would not be offered to him. he did not want homeland security. you say trump is known as being loyal, in some cases that's true, but rudy giuliani is not particularly happy right now. newt gingrich is not very happy right now. mike huckabee who came on to the trump team relatively early is not happy right now. chris christie, people close to him says he feels a bit mistreated. people in the trump inner circle, some are rewarded, others in this transition process, don, doug's been through a bunch of these in the
past, this does happen, but it's been a very public process. and a lot of trump loyalists are actually starting to grumble, saying, why is mitt romney getting all of this face time. why is he getting considered sistfor something, when those of us that were in the fight longer are getting passed over. >> interesting. douglas, do you have a perspective on this? >> yeah, look, i think rudy giuliani may not have been vetable in the end. his business dealings are a bit strange and we certainly don't know whether he could have passed mustard. i think you're seeing donald trump tilt to the military men a lot. i think general petraeus, who would have a difficult confirmation, but i think he'd get through, still in the running for secretary of state. but senator corker of tennessee to me seems to be somebody that trump might end up leaning towards. republicans love him, all, you know, brands of conservatives love him and democrats find him palatable. but mitt romney, i think, may be another casualty, like the list john just rattled off to you, of
loyalists, or in romney's case, a famous republican who's just not going to end up. all the names that john said, all the big names aren't really showing up in the administration. >> interesting. douglas, this is for you, as well. donald trump's pick for ambassador to china is also being well received, given his tough talk on china, and his controversial taiwan call. president george h.w. bush tweeted this and put it up, essentially saying the bilateral relationship is critical to peace in the 21st century and president-elect trump is wise to name terry branstad as ambassador. so far squr, conservatives are with trump's pick? >> very happy. >> he's going with the real conservative lineup. picking someone like scott pruitt at epa, after a day before meeting leonardo dicaprio, and before that, al gore, and just picking a climate denier. i mean, that's a dream for the oil and gas industry. i think what trump's going to try to do, though, out of the
gate is get jobs and manufacturing back to the midwest and the south, but also do offshore drilling, money for states, and build that border wall, which will be some infrastructure jobs in new mexico and arizona, texas, and then in the west, the american west, open up public lands, national grasslands, forests, and drill, frac, get shale, whatever you can to try to get the trump revolution being an economic boom in his first, you know, 8 to 10 months in office. >> yeah. john king, let's get back to the cabinet. because our cnn team you be covered a radio interview from general michael flynn, very controversial, one of trump's picks for national security adviser. he is claiming arabic signs were present along the u.s./mexico border to guide terrorists into the united states. listen to this. >> i know from my friends in border patrol, that they -- there are countries, so there's
radical islamist countries, state-sponsored, that are cutting deals with mexican drug cartels, for some of what they call the lanes of entry into our country. and i have personally seen the photos of the signage, okay, the signage along those paths that are in arabic. >> before you respond, i want to say that cnn hasn't been able to corroborate this. the border patrol union told cnn that they weren't aware of any signs and a trump transition spokesman declined to comment on this. so how is washington reacting to flynn, as stories like this trickle out? >> this is one of many things about general flynn that have people alarmed. not just democrats, a lot of republicans, as well. and don, a lot of it -- as doug mentioned, you hear a lot of generals coming into the trump administration. a lot of his former colleagues in the military are also concerned about general flynn. we have asked the trump campaign to please tell us where these signs are. if general flynn has seen these
photos, please, whoever has those photos, share them with us so we can verify his story. because it simply does not appear to be anywhere near the truth. remember back in 24 campaign, on conservative talk radio, some of these conspiracy theory websites, they had this thing that, you know, isis was infecting illegal immigrants with ebola and sending them across the border. this is the kind of conspiracy theory stuff that general flynn has trafficked in. not just in this instance, but in other instances as well, that has a lot of people worried. number one, he's not senate confirmed. number two, there has been a lot of criticism, not just from democrats, but donald trump shows no inclination of turning his back on general flynn, who will have a jobs steps from the president in the white house. >> and he doesn't need senate confirmation. so douglas, president obama is ordering a review of russian-related election hacking. what do you make of that? given his successor, continually denying that russia has had any involvement, despite finding so far from the intelligence community. >> well, i think he better hurry up, president obama, in doing that, because donald trump will
just disregard the report or call it a democratic hoax. you know, the fact of the matter is, it's a serious problem, what russia did in our election. and i think we need to -- the press needs to be talking about this a lot more. we need to etget answers, get t the bottom of it. thank goodness senator lindsey graham seems to be on the case. but so many other republicans just shrug about it. but it's the very heart and soul of what our democratic process is. and i know trump feels he can do business with putin, but he -- we immediate donald trump to take some leadership, look at the report that obama comes out on, and if there are russian fingerprints on it, he needs to say so. he's our president now -- soon to be our president. >> douglas brinkley, john king, thank you, gentleman, have a good weekend. a programming note for our viewers. make sure you join john king for his show, "inside politics" sunday morning at 8:00 right here on cnn. i never miss it. make sure you tune in. coming up, donald trump is promising to drain the swamp in washington. so how does he explains the millionaires, billionaires, and washington insiders in his
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so comments about the minimum wage, by his pick for a labor secretary have some of those supporters scratching their heads. i want to bring in phillip bump, katie vance, the author of "hillbilly elegy," and cnn contributor, salena zito. hello to all of you. i'll get to phillip bump quickly, i'll see you two in just a minute. there's a new statement from the trump transition team, a statement on claims of foreign interference in u.s. elections. i'll u.s. read it here off of my phone. these are the same people who said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. the election ended a long time ago and one of the big electoral college victories in history. it is now time to move on and make america great again. are they responding to the white house and investigating the russian influence in the election? >> well, with maybe. it may also be there's a report in "the washington post" that came out a little while ago, a secret cia report that suggests that the cia believed that russia had actively tried to get
donald trump elected president. my guess is that's what that's a response to. there's a lot in that statement that's inaccurate and that we can go over. but donald trump has for a long time argued that russia did not play any role in the election or we can't be sure that russia played a role in the election. now there is a secret cia report that suggested they not only had an active role, but an active roll with the goal of achieving the outcome that was achieved. >> selina, do you have anything to add to this response? >> i think that trump is trying to get a sort of delicate balance, right? he wants to project this winning results from his election. so he doesn't want anything, you know, to sort of undermine it. so to -- so for the stories to be out there that maybe the russians had something to do with impacting or, you know, at least spreading propaganda to, you know, impact voters, you know, that's going to get under his skin. and he's going to make sure that he gets his message out that this had nothing to do with it.
>> j.d., anything to add? >> i think the right response is for trump to say, on the one hand, i would have won regardless if there would have been any influence from the rnkss, to salena's point. but i think so it's important in this time where people are pretty worried about our democratic process, i think it would be great for trump to come out and say, look, we're going to look into this and make sure the russians aren't screwing with our elections. >> and cnn has been reporting that they were doing more than just meddling. they were attempting to steer or interfering in the election, to steer it towards donald trump. we have been reporting that. and now the trump transition team is responding. do you want to say something m >> i was going to point out, the same time that donald trump in that statement essentially attacks the intelligence agencies that he has done repeatedly over the course of the campaign, he is also supposed to be receiving these briefings from the same intelligence agencies, which he has now been receiving with the same regularity as past president-elects have. and i think there's some overlap there. and this was not one of the biggest electoral vote margins in history, but that's sort of besides the point. >> you said there were a couple
of things. saddam hussein and weapons of mass destruction, what does that have to -- >> this is what i'm saying. he is trying to -- the way i'm reading that statement is, he is trying to undercut the validity of the sourcing on this intelligence report by suggesting they also got the iraq war wrong. which is something he's been doing consistently over the course of the campaign. >> okay. let's move on. and we'll continue to check on that and see if anything develops. at tonight's michigan rally, donald trump teased a possible agreement with ford to keep jobs from moving to mexico. here it is. >> the people in michigan remembered -- i've been talking about this for years. we're going to stop it. and ford's made a promise to me, and hopefully at the beginning of the year, they're going to honor that promise, about something they're going to do that's very big and they're going to do it in michigan, not in mexico. >> salena, first it was carrier, now he's teasing ford. what's your take on this? >> well, you know, trump's thing has been, since he was a
businessman and it's played out throughout his campaign, is to always project strength. because strength gives you power and leverage. and so when he makes these statements, he's talking about how he's making deals to make things happen. and, you know, we don't know what kind of deal is going on. i think it was yesterday that he said at the rally in iowa, that he had -- that he had spoken to about the top ten businesses or manufacturers in the country, and you know, he was going to start talking to them about keeping jobs in the u.s. he's going to probably tease with this. and then have a big announcement, that seems to be his sort of business way of rolling these things out. >> j.d., do you think that's a smart move, given the recent blowback with the carrier deal, and you know the uproar with the union, and not being as many jobs as you said and so on? >> well, i definitely think it's politically smart, because the real political genius of donald trump this campaign cycle was to
recognize that people wanted jobs. they didn't want handouts. they didn't want businessmen. they wanted good, stable work that they could depend on. so i think it's politically smart. the worry that i have with this stuff is that if you look at the numbers, of course. we know that the reason american manufacturing isn't doing great is because of technology and automation. so even though it's smart politics, i think we've got to have a much better approach as to how we get some of these manufacturing workers back to work, get them trained for new jobs. without that, we'll never be able to solve the real job crisis that exists for hundreds of thousands of americans. you know, this stuff deals with the problem for maybe a few hundred, maybe a few thousand folks, but we really have a massive manufacturing and blue collar work program in the country. >> all right. stand by, everyone. as we come right back, a union leader critical of donald trump now says he is receiving threats. we're going to talk about that. [engine revving] ♪
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threats. >> people saying, you know, we know you've got children, we know where you live, we know what kind of car you're driving. other people call me a bunch of bad famous on the phone, so, you know, it is what it is. but it's not a major deal. i'm not concerned about it. i ain't got the authorities involved nor i do plan on it. people's got frustration because i said something about president-elect trump and they're taking it -- they're take it out on me and that's fine. >> phillip? what's your reaction? >> i mean, it's, it's strange to me that a person who is advocating on behalf the people he works, this guy runs -- he's the president of the union that affected that carrier plant, it's strange to me he's having to fend off the president-elect. to some extent, these calls are less interesting than the fact that donald trump received fairly mild critique. it was not -- you know, this was an interesting story, but it was not a big deal, and donald trump went after the guy.
i think that's the thing -- >> gave more oxygen to it. people may not even -- >> oh, absolutely, yeah. and raised the issue all over again. >> >> do you think trump is to blame for the threats? >> it bothers me the president-elect of the united states went after a private citizen like that. what i love, frankly, is the guy's response. right? he's being threatened, and he's tough about it. definitely saying, look, i'm being threatened, yeah, but it's no big deal. there is something about me that really admires his response to it. college students on the right and left side of the political spectrum can learn something from him. >> why are you laughing? >> he's kind of right. all the safe spaces. everybody has a safe space, right? chuck jones, i met him when i was out there at carrier. he is a tough character. reminds me of every union guy i've known since i was growing up. they would get stuff from their own guys when they couldn't come
through with jobs. he's taking it exactly the way i'd expect him to. he probably wishes the whole thing would go away. >> yeah. do you think he thinks people -- that he is intimidating people with the twitter attacks, or is it something for him to do? i don't think he is. i think people are like, what? >> i think -- >> you're the president-elect. why are you tweeting about me? i mean, chuck, dealing with auto workers and union bosses. >> right. >> he's probably like, bring it. >> right. i think it's true. i think chuck jones is probably a unique breed. then you hear megyn kelly. i'm sure she's dealt with nonsense for a long time, host on fox news, and she had to get armed guards because of things donald trump said. >> donald trump, i think, has been responsible for a large part of it over the past year, from what he is doing. but i think it is different. i understand what you're saying
about someone like megyn. personally, she's not afraid of it, but the threats that come from it, people have to take seriously. she did get guards. it is true. here's what was said about safe spacers earlier on fox. >> a technical term would be wuss move. >> being sarcastic or do they really want it? >> it is possible. the point of voting for trump is you disawe propprove of things safe spaces. instead of demanding an equal safe space, stand up and call the bluff for enforcing this, but name calling and fear. >> go ahead. >> well, i mean, the whole safe space thing is kind of weird. remember a couple years ago, ed rendell did a book, "we've become a nations of wusses." i can't remember the word he used. it is a unique thing happening right now. those of us of an older generation wonder about this
whole safe space thing. it just seems kind of odd and, you know, i'm not quite sure what to make of it. >> yeah. i don't really understand it. you're supposed to take your lumps, right? that's how you build up, you know, the armor. >> yeah. maybe it's the fact i spent a little time in the marine corps or the fact i'm an old man trapped in a young person's body, but i just cannot get this whole safe space thing. it really bothers me that folks on the left have been talking about this for a very long time. it is very clear that folks on the right are now also talking about it. and i'd love for one side of our political discourse, when the other side does something wrong or stupid, to say, i'm not going to do that, instead of saying, i'm going to do it and it is okay because they do that. >> yeah. amplify it. >> do you need a safe space, phillip? is this show triggering you? >> i need a -- i'm on record. we spend too much time worrying
what college kids are doing. the overlap between college kids and teenagers is large enough. let's give it a rest for what college students are doing for six years. give it a break. >> it's been a month since donald trump was elected. so far, is there anything he has done that gives you hope that he is going to unify our country or that he is, in fact, unifying the country now? >> well, you know, he's given a couple indications. his speech i thought the election night was really good. he followed off a couple times. a couple of his speeches have been really good. benevolent and shown he wants to talk about other -- >> i have to run. >> okay. >> finish, quick. >> the protesters were going on. he was talking about john glenn. he said, it's okay. they're going to be with us eventually. i was kind of happy to see him do that. >> thank you very much, everybody. have a great weekend. we'll be right back. new beer, , is finished.
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tribute salutes ten people who put others first all year long. the star-studded event airs live this sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. take a look. >> they are the kind and the caring. they are the strong and the brave. they are the ones who see a need, fill a void, make a difference. >> i'm trying to give them all the opportunities they deserve. >> this has become my life. i don't ever want to do anything else. >> they don't do it for themselves. they do it for all the rest of us. they are a reminder of what's good in this world. and what it truly means to be a hero. >> we give them the foundation from which they can thrive. the feeling of family. >> we have transformed the lives of thousands of children. >> this sunday night, cnn presents a very special, live event, the tenth annual cnn heros, all-star tribute. >> tonight, we're gathered to celebrate extraordinary men and women who highlight the best of what humanity has to offer. >> join anderson cooper and
kelly ripa, as we honor ten extraordinary people. the tenth annual cnn heros, all-star tribute, live sunday night at 8:00 on cnn. >> it is going to be a great show. always is. you won't want to miss it. i guarantee you'll be inspired. that's it for us. thank you for watching. cnn superhero, above and beyond, a tenth anniversary special, starts right now. they're rebuilding homes for victims of natural disasters. >> look at that. >> bringing education to children in the philippines. helping women in need safely deliver their babies in indonesia. caring for the children of incarcerated parents in nepal. and cleaning up rivers and water ways across the united states. >> just make piles every hundred feet. >> over the past decade, all five have been honored as the cnn hero of the year for their efforts. tonight, we catch up with them