tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN March 29, 2017 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
that's all the time we have. see you tomorrow night. time to hand things over to don lemon with "cnn tonight." >> breaking news, a source telling cnn that jared kushner's meetings with russian officials, including with a head of a bank under u.s. sanctions were an attempt to find the right person to engage with on russia, a back-channel to vladimir putin. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the source saying the meetings weren't about sanctions on russia. meanwhile, we're now just hours away from the senate's first public hearing on russia's meddling in the election. top leaders of the senate intelligence committee outlining their bipartisan plan for the investigation saying they'll interview 20 witnesses, including kushner. >> this was one of the biggest investigations that the hill has seen in my tenure here. >> and the house investigation
completes stalemate tonight, one glimmer of hope, chairman devin nunes and adam schiff planning to talk tomorrow, finally. can they get their investigation up and running again? i want to begin tonight with senior legal analyst, toobin i'm joined by jeffrey toobin, sally quinn, founding editor of "on fact," kristin powers and political commentator an draw bauer. good evening to all of you. thank you for coming on. jeffrey i'm going to start with you here because it seems like the grown-ups are officially in the room now. the senate is making it clear that they're going to get to the bottom of russia's meddling in the election. it's now looking serious. >> they are going to try. remember, it's not just a matter of interviewing witnesses. it's a matter of getting access to documents. it's a matter of getting at some of the most classified material in all of the u.s. government. because remember, we're talking about russia, which is under national security agencies national security agency surveillance all the time. the nsa never wants to give out this material, especially if it might be made public.
yes, it certainly does seem like the senate committee is being run in a serious way, but that's a long way from saying that they're going to be able to get access to all of the facts which is not only going to be difficult but likely take a long time. >> carl, i'm sure you are and there's so much focus on the dysfunction. we're going to talk about that. let's talk about the senate first. here's what we heard from the chairman richard burr and mark warner. listen to this. >> it's important for all of us here to remember to not lose sight about what this investigation is about. an outside foreign adversary effectively sought to hijack our most critical democratic process, the election of a president. >> i think mark and i have committed to let this process go through before we form any opinions. i would hope that that's what you would like us to do, as much as we'd like to share minute by
minute, even the snapshots we get as a team going through it are not always accurate when we find the next piece of intelligence. so let us get a little deeper into this before you ask us to write the conclusions. that's clearly something we intend to do down the road. >> what a difference between these two men and the chaos in the house. are you confident the senate can handle this, carl? >> not particularly. but it's a hopeful sign, perhaps. look, we are witnessing a coverup. the intelligence community, the fbi, knows that the coverup is going on to keep the american people from understanding what occurred in regards to the trump campaign, trump associates and the russians. now, whether that means there was criminal activity or not is a different story. but what we are seeing is a concerted effort by the white house, by the people in the campaign, by those in the trump organization to keep us from understanding what their
relationships are with russians, eth though russians semi-russian government officials and the history of the business relationships between the trump organization and the russian ethno nationals, et cetera, et cetera. we have seen one impediment after another. thrown in the way of the investigators in the house, the fbi and that's what's got to end. whether or not the senate is capable of doing that or not, given these road blocks that the white house is putting in front of them, very doubtful. >> we hope so. you said doubtful. we hope so. it seems to be playing out, the investigation in the media, for the most part. in that clip, chairman burr refused to rule out any links between president trump's campaign and russia. he wants to see where the investigation goes. what do you make of that? >> well, of course that's the way that it should go and i think we're all saying, look at the senate, they're the adults in the room as compared to what's happening in the house with congressman nunes.
that's a pretty low bar. i don't know that i'm super optimistic that this is going to lead to a better result. i think this should be handled more like a 9/11 commission-style inquiry because even with senator burr saying all the right things, remember, he had gotten into some trouble earlier because of the accusation about the relationship between the trump team and russia and he is somebody who was very close to president-elect -- the nominee at the time, president trump and served as a national security adviser on his campaign. so devin nunes, it's hard to remember but not that long ago, he was very well respected and trusted and expected to run a pretty good investigation. so i think we have to wait and see what happens. >> it's interesting, it doesn't seem like they are deflecting during the press. we never heard about masking or unmasking which many
investigators have said that's just sort of a deflection. the focus was on meddling of the 2016 election. did you notice that? >> i didn't notice that. but i'm glad you pointed it out, don. a couple of things here. if there is in fact concern that the senate or the house aren't going to get it right, then i'm all for a special investigation. i think the american people deserve to know. the truth will set you free. we need to get past this as a country. but if they're going to investigate, it shouldn't just be on the trump side. they should also look in to podesta and what he was paid down in panama. it should be the uranium deal, the clinton foundation, how much they received from the russians, the phone calls that bill clinton -- >> what does that have to do with anything? >> well, it has to do -- it's not just meddling on one side. who knows what they were meddling. but it has to do with -- the
president tweeted about the clinton uranium thing and every single fact check has pointed out it got four pinnochios from "the washington post." there's no truth to that at all. >> so we just should discount it and -- >> it's already been investigated and looked into. there's no reason to look into something that's already been investigated. >> and we know the clinton foundation received money from russia. we know hillary clinton received -- >> what does that have to do with anything? hillary and bill clinton are not president of the united states. they lost. they are not the president. >> how do we know russia didn't play both sides? the continual narrative is that trump was somehow collaborating with the russians. >> then why didn't he release -- >> why didn't they release hillary's e-mails. she bleached them. let me remember. >> no,. >> the truth will come out at some point. but i think clearly the house is dysfunctional. nunes can't do this and i agree with kirsten, i just don't think the senate can do it either. i think you've got to have an
independent commission. when the story first broke in july, it was debated, hotly debated in the white house about whether or not obama should have an investigation. they even talked about bringing in john, a former congressman, to do the investigation. this went on and on and the president actually talked to putin a number of times and said, you know, this does not stand. we can't allow this to go on. but he decided against investigating because he thought that it would look like he was trying to interfere in the election. but i think that, given the fact that we don't know anything, the only way we're going to find out is to have a special commission which has subpoena powers so that, i mean, if jared kushner wants to go and be interviewed, that's fine. but i think that whoever has to go before the commission should be subpoenaed and should be put under oath and should be
susceptible to perjury charges if they lied. >> kirsten, i want you and jeffrey to get in because, as andre was saying, everything should be investigated but i don't understand what the clinton foundation and any of that has to do, jeffrey. >> it's just like talk radio nonsense to try to distract attention from what's going on with the actual president of the united states as opposed to the candidate who lost. but look, apparently that's going to be the republican talking point here. the key mystery here is you have acknowledged russian attempt to sway the election to trump. you have all these trump campaign efforts to ingratiate themselves with russia, whether it's jared kushner, jeff sessions or michael flynn, all of them seem to be going out of their way to help one leader in the whole world. vladimir putin. the question, which is very much unanswered at this point, is whether those two stories
connect in any way. was this abattempt to get russia, you know, to ingratiate ourselves with russia related to russia's attempt to defeat hillary clinton. i don't know. but certainly it seems worthy of investigation. >> carl, i want to talk to you about -- gloria borger has this new reporting out about jared kushner. he's planning to say the senate intel committee about his meeting with sergey kislyak. kushner and the transition team are looking for ways to establish a back channel with putin. so the ambassador suggested that kushner that they meet with the head of this bank. this seems different from what the white house originally said, saying nothing of substance was discussed, saying that the meeting with kushner -- the businessman. that's who they were meeting with. >> no. they've changed their story.
but it goes to a bigger question. donald trump was going to drain the swamp. instead, what we are seeing is a sewer overflowing in terms of business conflicts of interests between members of the trump family, the trump organization, trump properties. the president of the united states who has refused to put his properties into a proper kind of trust or to disperse his investments, get out of the business that he's in and be the president of the united states instead of the head of his company with his family. it's a disgraceful situation. and there are so many tentacles to what is going on about russian interference that we need answers to and that includes all of the business relationships that donald trump, family, in-laws, et cetera, et cetera have with ethno russians, with loans that have been taken
ever taken out from russian banks perhaps. we need all of this information and what we know so far from the investigators is that the trump white house has put every impediment in their way that they possibly can. why is that? that is so mystifying if we're going to drain the swamp. >> everybody, stay with me. the investigation by the house intelligence committee at a complete standstill tonight and there are growing questions about the credibility of chairman devin nunes. z286nz zwtz
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what if we could bring you by having better values? at blue apron, we work directly with more than a hundred family farms. so instead of spending on costly middlemen and supermarkets, we can invest in the things that matter most: making farmland healthier. cutting down on food waste. and bringing you higher quality, fresher ingredients for less than you pay at the store. because food is better when you start from scratch. get $30 off at blueapron.com/cook tonight, the fbi contradicting devin nunes on the russia investigation. so who's telling the truth? back now with my panel. sally, you first. let's talk about chairman nunes and the investigation. the fbi director james comey dropped a bombshell about the investigation about possible collusion and then nunes decided to focus on the leaks and the unmasking. here's what ryan lizza is reporting.
the white house signal reporting, the white house signal that would happen. does nunes have any credibility left? >> well, here's -- no. to that question, he has no credibility. >> i'm going to ask it and get back to you. do you think he has credibility? >> nunes is clueless, he's corrupt or he's both. >> yeah. >> those are the only three possibilities. >> carl, does he have any credibility left? >> no. >> kirsten powers? >> republicans should stop defending him. that's the important thing. >> i agree. i don't know how anybody can look at the way that he's blaifd and say he's conducting an impartial investigation. >> andre bauer? >> clearly the arrows have been shot at him to discredit him. >> but does he have any credibility left? >> say what? >> he's got credibility left. i know y'all are going to hammer
on him and -- say he doesn't. >> with whom? with whom? >> not everybody in america is as if i can fix sateed as y'all are on all this russian stuff and the meddling and the chaos and everything they've caused although we still don't know everything they've done in the election. if you look at the poll from a year ago to now, twice as many american voters think the country is headed in the right direction and they are not paying attention to this stuff. i know we're fixated on it in the media but they are not. the average hard worker is glad to see the country moving forward and isn't worried about -- >> i don't know what that has to do with the truth of an investigation, just because they aren't fixated -- >> when you do talking points -- it should have some tropical what you were asked. >> this is supposed to be sally's turn. >> i want to say something. >> go ahead, sally. because it's really important here. >> okay. when you're talking about johnny lunch bucket, i mean, for the first year of watergate,
nobody -- no other news organizations were picking it up. they were just basically letting "the washington post" out there hang themselves because they didn't want -- they didn't think it was important. they didn't think that people out there cared, that nobody believed it. and so "the post" kept going at it and at it and finally what happened is that walter cronkite put it on air and johnny lunch bucket decided that it was a story. so it takes a while for this to happen. people are still worry about their jobs. it's going to take a while. >> go ahead, carl. >> i think we need to talk about right and wrong for a minute and i don't want to sound like a moralist here but truth is not what polls are about. >> there's no truth here. >> can we finish for a moment, please? look, we are trying -- what we want to know is what is the truth? that is why we need real investigation. what we do know is that from the point of view of all of the
united states intelligence community, the russians attempted to hijack our election. this is a huge piece of business. >> how? did they get into the machines? what did they do? >> that's part of the reason that we're having this -- investigation. >> oh, come on. >> how about hacking e-mails with the dnc and john podesta? it's no mystery what they were trying to do. >> exactly. that's the point. there's a huge record out there from the nsa and -- >> for the -- incidentally, the president of the united states, donald trump, has said, yes, the russians tried to interfere in the election. so drop that talking point, please. but what's important here -- >> well, mr. podesta was paid tens and millions of dollars from the russian government. we need to investigate him, then. >> whoa, whoa. just a moment. there are many lobbyists who have been paid all kinds of
had money, and fine. look, we have investigations about lobbyists all the time. this is not about trying to make it about republicans or democrats. this is about trying to find out what the hell happened to our election and we have a president and the people around him and, unfortunately, a republican party on the hill that seems not the least bit interested in the truth here. there are some members, yes, but increasingly in the house especially, they seem to be -- >> it all seems to come down to partisanship. i think that many people believe it's like the fairness doctrine, if you prosecute a republican, you must prosecute a democrat. >> no. >> that's not actually how it works. it's a great talking point. speaking to that, james comey was at the intelligence security alliance defending the fbi as nonpartisan. listen to this. >> the last year -- it's been almost a year now -- has been
both difficult and easier than you might think and i'll tell you, i've never been prouder of the fbi. what makes it easy is, we're not on anybody's side, ever. we're not considering who's ox will be gored by this action or that action. who's fortunes will be held by this or that. we just don't care and we can't care. we ask what are the facts, what's the law, what's the right thing to do here. most people see the world differently than we do. especially in a hyperpartisan environment. most people wearing glasses that filter the world according to size. -- sides. and this is a challenge i faced when i testified in front of congress. they see facts as to how it will affect my side. how does that argument affect my side. when they encounter people, and i'm just one of 37,000 people at the fbi, who never consider a side, it's confusing.
>> jeffrey, what do you think? >> what a bunch of sanctimonious nonsense. you know, there's a guy who beat hillary clinton by breaking the justice department policy and announcing investigations of hillary clinton on the eve of the election. the idea that he somehow is unaware -- he is so unaware of the political implications of his work, what a bunch of nonsense that was. >> kirsten? >> yeah, well, look, i think a lot of democrats would definitely disagree with what he said and see that he really used a different standard. it's not just that he came out in democrats' eyes and probably disrupted the election to help donald trump win. i'm not saying that was his motive but that was the outcome as a lot of democrats believe it but then he didn't hold donald trump to the same standard. he came out and told everybody that hillary clinton was essentially under investigation without mentioning that the other candidate was also under investigation. and so this idea that he's somehow just above it all i
don't think is really connected to the truth. >> at the time of the election, there was only one candidate under investigation and that was -- >> no. he had said that they had started looking at donald trump during the election. >> in july. in july. >> right. >> but at the point he sent the letter out he said he was done and had concluded nothing about hillary clinton. >> right. >> before the election. >> so it was the trump folks who were under investigation. >> people were left with the impression that hillary was under investigation even though it had been formally closed but he certainly let everyone believe that she was being looked at by the fbi without mentioning donald trump. >> what do you think of what comey said? >> and republicans feel like she was given a pass. >> why is that? >> well, she met on a saturday, a saturday of a holiday, when does the fbi meet with somebody on a saturday. met for a brief time. it's announced the day after the holiday so they knew immediately what the results were.
on sunday, did they take all of that information they got from her in a short period of time and say she's done nothing wrong and a few days before bill clinton sits down with the attorney general and the whole thing looks bad, not just to republicans but to democrats, too. a lot of people feel like she got a pass when it really wasn't cutting the mustard as to what most people had to deal with with the fbi. >> that's why they chanted lock her up. >> i think comey has not covered himself with glory all along and i think that from here on out, he is unfireable because he has -- he has been against the republicans and against the democrats. but i don't think that donald trump could ever get rid of him because of that. and so i think he's golden. >> thank you all. i appreciate it. some say congressman nunes has delegitimatized the house probe on russia. my next guest says that may be a good thing. i'm going to ask him why.
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here to discuss, frank rich, wire at large for new york magazine and executive producer of veep on hbo. so good to have you. >> great to see you. >> we're going to talk more about your column that you wrote about this probe and the credibility of it but you also wrote something about doing news by -- whether people care about it or not. we're here to get the truth. we should be getting the truth and whether one group cares about what's important about the news, i mean, does that matter? >> no. because the whole point of journalism is find out what isn't known. and sometimes it's important stuff that's buried under official laws or bureaucracy or business secrets or whatever. whether it be the enron corporation or what's gone on in terms of collusion between russia and the trump administration, you have to keep going. >> you think sally was right, what she said about watergate? and people not caring? >> at the very beginning, she's absolutely right and she was there.
carl bernstein, also your guest tonight and bob woodward, were regarded as lowly police reporters pursing a third-rate robbery and they were demeaned by the president of the united states and all his men and then they stuck with it. other journalistic organizations, including "the new york times" were asleep on it and look what happened. >> you say people will start to care more about this depending -- so far there's no evidence. there could be nothing there. >> there could be nothing there on the other hand, they're behaving as though there was a coverup. >> i want to ask you, your latest new york magazine article says devin nunes has delegitimized the house's probe. why is that a good thing? >> because this guy thinks he's protecting trump, gives every sign of protecting trump and instead he's stepping in it and revealing that there's something off there because if he were
conducting his investigation in a serious way, he wouldn't be doing this. he makes you feel that there is something going on and that there's something hiding or wants to hide from the white house. >> here's what michael isikoff who we had on this show. she said at some point the people who think that there's something to this russia scandal has to show their cards or come up with something otherwise that's going to start to look like one big -- those were his words. >> i'm not sure what he's saying. he says people suspicious of the scandal? >> i'll read it again. that at some point the people who think that there's something to this russia scandal will have to show their cards. >> yeah. i think basically we have two serious investigations that we'll find out whether something is there or not. the fbi and the senate. not the house, however. >> so what do you -- so the house seems -- i said to my panel before, it seems like the adults are in the room now because the house is taking it seriously -- >> the senate is taking it seriously.
>> and the leaders are saying we don't know what's there. we want to get to the bottom of it rather than going at it -- one saying we don't believe there is something there or there is something there. >> we assume that's the what the fbi has been doing for months too. you've got to gather your evidence and figure out whether there's a case or not a case. i think because of nunes' behavior, richard burr and adam schiff are in a great position to set themselves up as judicious authorities. >> i want to get to the lightning round. a couple of topics. you saw what happened with the repealing and replacing obamacare last week and it was a big flop. do you think this is more of a sign that there's something wrong with the president's deal making or dysfunctional congress or a combination? >> both. first of all, obviously the president didn't even know what was in the bill or sell it properly and then we have a congress that's used to saying no.
a republican congress that doesn't know how to legislate. someone pointed out, paul ryan's been there since 1999 and in his entire history in the house, only three bills he's sponsored have made it to law. so they don't know how to govern. >>, well, do you think on this issue, can it redeem itself? >> health care or -- >> because now it's in the house. do you think that the administration and the house, because now they're saying maybe we'll work with democrats, at least the president is saying that. democrats say if repealing is on the table -- >> i don't think -- maybe pigs can fly and something will happen but i think that basically they're going to careen from one failed bill and flop to another, the way things look now. >> let's talk about "the washington post" reporting that the trump organization is seeking to open a second hotel in washington, d.c. are they thinking about separating the family business and presidency? >> who knows how long this administration is going to be in
place. let's get while the getting is good, seems to be the attitude. >> do you think they understand it looks like grifting. >> it possibly is grifting. obviously they don't care about appearances. one embarrassment after another, they just sort of shrug it off. they say, it's donald being donald and they don't care either. >> we got word that now officially the president's daughter ivanka is going to take on official status as a government employee serving as an unpaid adviser to her father. now she's going to have to deal with all the ethics rules and what have you. there's a lot of family going on and that's concerning to some people. >> as it should. i mean, frankly, they're just flouting all the ethics rules. including jared kushner, her husband and the trump son so why shouldn't ivanka get the art of the deal of cashing in on this presidency.
>> anti-nepotism rule went into effect. do you think this matters to them? i don't know if it is. but if they're breaking that rule but there are a lot of trump -- >> they'll say the kennedys did it because bobby kennedy was attorney general. >> that's why the anti-nepotism rule was put in place. >> exactly. but i think trump's attitude is essentially he's above the law and rules don't apply to them and he can defy political gravity as well. they'll just shrug it off until some calamity happens and the apocalypse strikes. >> in your estimation. >> my light-hearted estimation. >> thank you. always a pleasure. >> thank you. coming up, what we can expect as the senate opens its first hearing tomorrow on russia's meddling in the election. what if we could bring you better value by having better values? at blue apron, we work directly with more than a hundred family farms. so instead of spending on costly middlemen and supermarkets,
sanders, associate professor at stony brook school of journalism and author of "the russians emerge. so glad to have all of you on. hello, steve, you first. senators warner and burr say they are in the process of scheduling interviews 20 people. what do you think of that? >> well, you know, compared to what's happened in the house, i suppose it's a piece of good news that the senate is how -- is becoming involved. but i have to say, remember, not too many weeks ago things were looking pretty good on the house side. you had people standing behind podiums pledging cooperation, transparency and following the intelligence and facts wherever they may lead, which is what we're hearing in the senate right now as well. i'm still skeptical, largely because i still think the politics is simply too baked in to these proceedings and to these oversight committees for us to be able to have anything like a real investigation. i think it's going to have to be something independent. i don't know what that would look like, a special prosecutor or whatever. i don't think the oversight
committees are going to be able to pull it off. >> you think it's too big for them? they said they're open to issuing subpoenas to obtain certain documents but it's difficult to do internationally. do you think this is too big for the house and the senate? >> yeah, i do. i just think -- look, you've got arguably the most partisan problem that you can think of. what's going on with the presidency of the united states and his potential collaboration or cooperation with the foreign hostile power? that's an inherently partisan -- you can't get the politics out of that. so anytime you've got that level of politics in any of the overnight committees, i just don't see how it's going to work. >> what might they be looking for internationally? what kind of documents are they trying to access? >> they are going to try to get ahold as much as they possibly can. i would hope that they would be looking at some of our liason relationships, it's going to be difficult because you can't subpoena a foreign government or
legally take action against folks not in the united states. there's a lot of things that can be answered internally, too. >> jonathan, jared kushner met with the russian ambassador, a also with the head of a bank, a bank with close ties and relationship meetings and meetings with the ambassador, the sources that kushner asked him to identify someone who would be a good intermediary as they were trying to figure out who would be the right person to engage with on russia and the ambassador suggested the bank executive and the transition team, specifically kushner, said that they were looking for a back channel to putin. that isn't what the trump administration initially said that these meetings were about and that's also not what the bank said.
>> well, it's certainly not what the bank said but i think it's a great idea that we're talking to russians. i think russians need to have a sense of what's going on with somebody who is as mysterious to them as to us. what are we going to expect of somebody named donald trump who's never run for a job before and who isn't saying bad things about russia, which is the currency in washington, the cold war currency. and i think, by the way, don, we have to be careful. what we're talking about, we're far enough from the cold war in rocked pearling have our ethics of journalism frozen out and we don't know whether they had any success. the success is all now when you and i talk about it. >> i think what the intelligence committee said, juliette, is that they did influence the election. what they are not sure about is the collusion or how much
it impacted the election or if there is collusion between the trump people and russian officials. >> right. i mean, jeff toobin said it the best in the previous segment, which is that you have one known piece, russia's involvement with the election and you have evidence and admission about trump contacts with the russians of various levels from the ambassador down to a bank president. some of them are admitted to. some are admitted to only after the media finds them and the question is, is there that collusion. from the press conference today, i'm slightly more optimistic about this, the senate intel hearing, for a variety of reasons, including the attitude today, i thought it was important that even senator burr said it's premature to take collusion off the table. i think that's important. and i think, also, we have to admit to ourselves, there's not going to be an independent investigation.
at least not until another -- the midterm election. i just can't see any way in which this congress would authorize an outside commission as they did on 9/11, several years after 9/11 to review something that is so political. so i think the senate, at least from the looks of it so far, we should be slightly more optimistic. don't forget, of course, there's the fbi investigation that is ongoing. >> and it is possible, though, that the white house, juliette, could be correct when they say nothing of significance was discussed, or is it, because they don't know exactly what it is that the bank would find significant or what information they could be gathering even from a simple meeting. >> right. the content of it, that's why you -- is not known. that's why you want the witnesses to come in, preferably under oath, so what they say might be used against them if it ends up not being true. that's why we want people under oath because you cannot perjure yourself.
we don't know the content of it. so what we do know, while there's still a lot of questions, there are things that aren't in question anymore, a series of meetings that occurred, some of them admitted to, some only admitted to later on, discussions amongst -- not the people in the white house now but the trump associates during the campaign with various russians and we just simply don't know what the links are. i'm much more comfortable, though, being in a position where we're searching for the truth than sitting here saying, well, since they haven't proved it yet, it can't be true. nobody's done these investigations believes that there's going to be this a-ha moment. this could take months. and the senate seems to set up the right pacing in that regard. >> and jonathan says it's possible. steve hall is agreeing with you. we'll hear from them on the other side of the break. we'll be right back. ♪
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a phone, or a computer. no college degree though. not yet, but life's taught me a lot, and i'm ready for more. well, you're not the typical kind of candidate that i hire, but you are exactly what i'm looking for. [narrator] your company could be missing out on the candidates it needs most. learn how to find a great pool of untapped talent at gradsoflife.org. >> okay, back now with my panel. so this is another key part of senator warner said today from the senate. listen. >> some of the techniques that russia used in this election we
find more and more, i think would send a chill in anyone that believes in the democratic process in this country and around the world. >> doesn't this transcend politics? i mean next time they could in favor of a democratic or in favor of a party in another nation that would be hostile to the united states. >> don, look, part of this is we are in a very new era where people have to have something we call news literacy. they have to be able to take a source that they read -- let's say it's the "lemon times" on the internet, do we know it's don lemon times? maybe it's something put up by someone else wanting to sell lemons. what we need is training new
young people how to tell fake from real. there are new rules of the game. and one of the things we need to do is to talk to our russian friends about what is responsible to do, and what is not responsible to do. in this new cold war the worst thing we can do is just blame them for everything and not talk to them. >> hey, stooefb. i understand steve had to go. there's a fire alarm in steve's studio. >> we can blame the russians. >> we didn't drop steve. >> they're really good. >> they're good, huh? specifically battleground states like wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania, can you tell us more about this threat? >> yeah, i thought this was one of the most interesting little moments during the press conference that had a chance of getting lost, which is saerchy
discussing what might be called microtargeting, microadver tuesdayatizing that in particular swing states, michigan, and wisconsin, that these russian trolls were essentially invading various plasfirms to information against hillary clinton. and i think there's two points to take away from this. one, is i think that russia was just out there to muddle this whole thing, i think we need to put that argument aside. i think the other interesting thing is some of us have a notion that what russia did is through a lot of things at the wall and oh, my goodness, they stopped. what warner said shows a much more sophisticated cyber attack campaign. instead of a firing squad, it
was more of a targeted kill. that they actually were picking states that they knew might be influenced. and so i'm taking only mike warner's public statements today. and certainly i have never heard this before, so i'ming forward to hear more in these public hearings. >> do you have anything to say to this, jonathan the. >> all i can say is that it's a two-edge sword. demonstrations between 82 and 99 different cities across the country in the face of tremendous opposition to talk about the regime in the kremlin as corrupt and a bunch of crooks. it goes both ways. we need to ask the question why are they so good at computers and why are we not so good at computers in the digital era? and some of it is really scary because the reason may be
they're better at math and have better math education than we do. and that's a big things we're facing in the mass hysteryo the russians are coming. we're paying the price. >> the house the paralyzed on this thing. that's a quote from him. and the only way to move forward is for the senate to take the lead on this russian probe. do you think that's a right move first jonathan and then julia? >> well, the other day, don, you and i were talking about adults and grown ups. it seems from this statement we heard today, we're not going to make any pronouncements until we do our investigation. i think that's a better approach. but then there also has to be an approach that says let's follow the better evidence. maybe the money is coming from chinese banks. we simply don't know. let's not automatically assume
it's the russians. >> i need to get julia in. final thought. do you agree with that, julia? >> i blame nunes squarely. what looks like an optimistic moment of investigation, i don't know how you redeem it at this stage. part of it is public confidence in the investigation, and i don't think nunes can get it back. >> thank you, both. i appreciate it. we'll be right back. at blue apron, we're building a better food system. where instead of paying for middlemen, we work directly with family farms to deliver higher quality ingredients for less than you pay at the store. get $30 off at blueapron.com/cook
breaking news. a source telling cnn that jared kushner's meeting with russian officials including with a head of a bank under u.s. sanctions were an attempt to find the right person to open a back channel to vladimir putin. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. in just a few hours the senate opens its first public hearing on the russian involvement in the election. we've got some other breaking news to start with. the president's travel ban in hawaii is breaking news. cnn's justice reporter, she's on