tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 14, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
good evening. jim sciutto here sitting in for anderson. a busy night on the program. an edgy week for the world. it's now founder's day in north korea and the world is watching, waiting for a possible nuclear test there or other military provocation. if one happens, it would cap a week that's already seen a nuclear threat from kim jong-un. tough talk from president trump. cold war words from russia. hints of escalation in syria.
and the dropping of a truly massive bomb on afghanistan. president trump, through all this, is on vacation. more on that shortly. cnn's suzanne malveaux is at mar-a-lago. matthew chance in moscow. jim acosta is at the white house tonight. let's bring in suzanne from florida. so for president trump, sort of a working golfing weekend for the president? >> reporter: you could call it that. they say they are ready for anything, that they are prepared. his chief of staff reince priebus was with him in the motorcade at joint base andrews but did not accompany him here in florida. so he doesn't have his top level staff in florida with him. we are told from a white house official that's very intentional. that this is supposed to be a light foot print allowing the president to have time with his wife and children, allow top advisers do the same. sit a break in protocol, having covered president obama and president bush, there's usually
a security adviser even on vacation with the president. but trump is doing things differently. he does have members of his national security staff with him, some junior members. they are keeping an eye on what happens in north korea, whether there's any kind of provocation. at the same time, we did see the president playing golf. one of our prafhotographers getg those pictures. this will be his 17th team to a golf course since becoming president. >> looking at mar-a-lago, how well equipped is it now to deal with sensitive information, communications, et cetera? >> reporter: well, it's certainly not the white house, but they do have a secure area, where he's able to get briefings. he's able to get classified information. this is where he received information about the strike in syria recently. and so they feel confident about that, that they do have the team, the mechanisms in place. they're also a briefing room set
up at the hotel where trump staffers are staying, where some of the reporters are staying. it can be fired up at a moment's notice. all of us reporters are going to be waiting to see what happens in north korea, whether or not there will be a response overnight. we're all going to be on high alert standing by for that. at the same time, the president is getting updates on the whereabouts of vice president mike pence. he's traveling to the area, and is expected to arrive in south korea on sunday, jim. >> all of us watching north korea very closely. these holidays a time north korea often takes advantage of. more now on what vice president pence will find when he arrives. cnn's alexandra field is in seoul, south korea. she joins us now. alex, no one closer to the north korean threat than south koreans. what is the mood there as they await for a possible provocation? >> reporter: they're waiting with the rest of the world to
see what happens in the next few hours. perhaps more importantly what happens in north korea is the question how the u.s. will react to any provocation. this is the most important day on the north korean calendar. the celebration of the founder's birthday. we expect to see north korea pumping out images to the rest of the world to a military parade meant to project their military might. it is also the reasons why some analysts have speculated this could be a holiday around which north korea plans to carry off its sixth nuclear test. analysts looking at satellite data say the nuclear site is primed and ready and this test could happen at any moment. given the rise in tensioning here on the peninsula, china is calling for calm and cool heads to prevail, particularly as vice president mike pence makes his way to the region. he'll be stopping in seoul this weekend. then to tokyo where he will be talking to his allies here about all the options that remain on the table when it comes to how to counter this north korean
nuclear threat. >> another possibility, another missile test. the north koreans had choice words for the u.s. and president trump today. what did they say? >> choice words, a polite way of putting it. they are always threatening a strict and severe response, saying they wouldn't hold back in terms of any provocation or any hostile action from the u.s. that's the kind of rhetoric that you do often hear. but it is directly being said as a result at the fact that you have the vice president headed of here and you have these u.s. warships redeployed to the waters off the korean peninsula. according to kcna that comes out of north korea, they see the movement of these strategic nuclear assets as a threat to global security and it brings the region to the brink of thermo nuclear war, that's the affront they are taking from the presence of these warships. jim, washington is saying these warships are meant to be a
deterrent against further provocation, but it certainly seems the word here in south korea when it comes to another missile test or a nuclear test, it isn't a question of if but when. >> these are shocking, worrisome words. alexandra field, thank you very much. now syria and russia. with washington buzzing about the cruise missile strike in syria last week, and possibly more u.s. military actions still to come, the kremlin has issued a warning against it, using two words -- grave consequences. that would bring a cold war chill. let's go now to cnn's matthew chance who is in moscow. matthew, what can you tell us today? i understand that russia was meeting with iranian and syrian officials, those allies in effect in the syrian conflict, what was the meeting about today? >> reporter: i think first and foremost it was a show of unity between the syrian allies, but it was a show of defiance towards the united states, as well. because you had these three
foreign ministers from russia, iran and syria, criticizing the strikes last week on that strike on the syrian air base, calling on the united states to respect the sovereignty of syria and to respect international law, as well. and warning that any further attempts at regime change, which is how they characterize these missile strikes, would fail. this is what serge lavrov had to say. we confirmed our position, it's a united position and cwe deman the united states to respect the sovereignty of the state. all this coming less than 24 hours after rex tillerson, u.s. secretary of state, left moscow having livered a strong message to the kremlin, that now is the time for them to turn their backs and put distance between themselves and bashar al assad. >> do you see any possible daylight between russia and assad himself?
any lessening of the tie with assad possible? >> reporter: i don't see any sign of that. i think this meeting today with the iranian and syrian foreign ministers underlines that. assad, for the kremlin, he's a gaurentor. the kremlin is concerned if there was anybody in his shoes he wouldn't be so indebted to the kremlin. he could well turn his back on the kremlin and move more towards the western powers, and the russians don't want to risk that. they like assad where he is right now because he doesn't have anywhere else to go. he has to protect russian interests because no one else is prepared to be an ally. >> syria and russia has been questioning whether this military attack happened at all, calling it fake. then russia vetoes a u.n. security council resolution
which would have called for an investigation. >> reporter: yeah, it's cont contradicto contradictory. what the russians say is they didn't just reject an investigation into the chemical attack, they vetoed a resolution which they say was biased and had already prejudged who was guilty, and that's not something they want. they say they want an honest and true investigation. so they've called for the international body, the opcw, to come into syria and to do a proper, impartial study. of course, around the world to russia's critics, that just looks like another excuse to extend the matter and to shield its syrian ally once again. >> that's why the opcw g guaranteed in effect that the chemical weapons were out of syria. as we've been reporting, it's been quite a week in the world. perspective from jim acosta at the white house. a lot of talk about the 180s from the president on china, on
nato being obsolete, other pillars of his foreign policy. from where you're sitting, are those permanent changes in trump's foreign policy? >> reporter: well, i don't think president trump has done this much flipping since he was in real estate, jim. but no question about it, there have been a lot of changes for this president on some important policy positions. consider what we heard late today which is the treasury department formally saying that china will not be listed as a currency manipulator. that is a reversal of a position the president took during the campaign. now, of course, they're hoping this will be an incentive to the chinese to help contain north korea. you see the president shifting in these positions. they do seem to serve a purpose when it comes to russia. the president said during the campaign, he wanted a great relationship with russia and vladamir putin. now it seems he sees the russians as an impediment to bringing a resolution to the situation in syria. that's why you heard the president the other day during
that news conference with the jordanian king saying he's a flexible thinker and he's not fixed in these positions. something we learned during the campaign and something we're learning now that he's president. >> one of the most striking reversals possibly on nato after he had the meeting with the nato secretary-general this weekend in washington, d.c. does that increase the division with russia going forward? >> reporter: i think it does. i think it puts russia on notice. i also think, jim, if the president is looking to bring the wrath of the u.s. government to isis, as we saw this week with the detonation of the mother of all bombs in afghanistan, he is going to need nato support. so going after nato, calling it obsolete, you know, the way he used to criticize nato during the campaign, that kind of rhetoric was just not going to serve him well as president. as president, donald trump is finding the world is a lot more
interconnected than that america first policy he advocated during the campaign. but senior administration officials, i don't want to describe them as giddy, but they're feeling very good after these couple of weeks. they feel like the president has projected strength not only with the military operation in afghanistan, but the air strikes, the missile strikes that were intended to punish bashar al assad in syria. i was just talking to a senior official minutes ago before we came on the air, who said watch out, we're going to have a strong finish heading into the 100 day mark, in the next two or three weeks. so they're feeling very confident, even though the gallop tracking poll shows the president at 40% and people are scratching their heads about these policy flip-flops, but there is no shortage of confidence here at the white house. >> jim acosta, thank you very much. a pam will weigh in next. and later, more on the president's habit of doing exactly what he said he wouldn't do, taking time away from the white house.
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diverse array of threats in decades. here to talk about it is my panel. general, if i could begin with you, you've commanded troops in combat, in iraq. there is always tension between the u.s. and north korea and the exchange of hyperbolic rhetoric, particularly from north korea. right now, though, are you concerned this has reached a particularly tense level? is there something different about it right now that concerns you? >> there is, jim. and i have commanded in iraq and in germany and also in korea. and i have never seen the tension in korea the way it is right now. and it has to do twofold primarily because of kim jong-un, who is actually more provocative than i think many of the watchers of korea and that part of the world have seen him in a long time. he is close to achieving his
goals, and he's being pushed on several sides. north korea is a racist society. they see themselves as pure and see south korea and china as being impure and influenced by the united states. so they have a different rational than we do, and you have to understand that before you push the leader and the north koreans to the brink, because they will go there if that's the only choice they see they have. >> mike, i want to draw on your experience. you've been to north korea a number of times and met with north korean officials. there's this idea out there that the north korean leader is crazy. but you talk to north korean experts that say as brutal as it is, the strategy is rational if survival is the only goal really. do you agree with that? >> i think you put your finger on it. there is this kind of conventional stereotype of north
korea as crazy and irrational. i think nikki haley, the ambassador to the u.n., described kim jong-un, the north korean leader that way. but in fact, the north koreans i think have a very cold blooded and ruthless, but very rational perspective. the name of the game for them is regime survival. a the north koreans look around the world in the last dozen or 15 years. they look at the example of iraq where saddam hussein was toppled and eventually executed after the u.s. invasion. and he didn't have nukes. they look at lib why's moammar gadhafi who gave up his nukes and was overthrown. they look at syria being a u.s. target last week. none of these countries have nuclear weapons. the north korean view is we are a small country, our goal is to keep our regime and dynasty in power and having a nuclear capability does that. i don't see any circumstances which they'll give that up. >> mark, you have kim jong-un,
he's capable as his father and grandfather before him of hyperbole and very scary threats. i'm not comparing him to president trump, but president trump has tweeted and said things about u.s. action, if china doesn't take care of it, we'll take care of it ourselves. when you have that combination, does north korea read him with trepidation, does that increase the chances of conflict, if not conflict misunderstanding that could lead to conflict? >> it gets to what we're just talking about. he's there to make sure his regime continues to exist. and anyone that threatens him overtly will cause him to be -- will dig in more. so yes, i'm concerned about this. and the bluntness and brashness of mr. trump, without a strategy, and the things that he has said about what he's going to do without options. so jim, i'll give you an example. if north koreans, if the leader
does actually execute a test of a nuclear weapon tonight or tomorrow, and then fires multiple missiles, what are we going to do? that's the question. there is not an option. you can't just conduct a strike like we did in syria or drop a bomb like afghanistan and solve the problem, because there are second and third order effects of striking north korea. and you have seoul right under their radar. they can strike seoul and kill tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people with artillery from positions that are very difficult to bomb. >> and a lot of americans in seoul, including soldiers, as well. kimberly, you've been speaking to military officials about u.s. military options here. is one of those options a p preemptive strike. >> that is just one of a number of options they keep on a shelf to be ready at any time. >> is it a realistic option?
>> it's not the one they want to use, and when a report came out this week on another network that it was a possibility, i heard from lots of different administration officials trying to tamp it down, because they don't want it to trigger or provoke north korea. their preferred option is to ratchet everything back and get in a position where china can use its influence on north korea, and solve this through a mixture of threatened economic sanctions, and the carrot of loosening some of those sanctions and the food aid that north korea needs. >> what was just described to me sounds a lot like the obama administration policy towards north korea and the george w. bush administration, where is this dramatic change of president trump? >> two things. first, what we we be pre-empting? this would be the sixth nuclear test. the time to pre-empt a nuclear power is before the first test.
yeah, he's back in the same place on a lot of these issues of his predecessors. he's back with assad has to go and we'll use a deterrent capability to stop him from using chemical weapons, but we don't want to intervene any further than that. on north korea, he's left with the same options. it was very telling this week when he said he talked to the president of china, who explained to him -- >> how complicated a problem it was. >> that actually donald trump for the last two years was wrong in saying that the chinese could solve this problem in a second. the president said here's the leverage we have, here's what we don't. >> i did wonder who briefed him for that meeting. that's something north korean experts would know. >> i think we're watching a president in realtime grapple with the world as it is, rather than the way he thought it was on the campaign trail. >> mike, you've been going to north korea a long time. the concern had always been what if we had a nuclear north korea.
that was the nightmare scenario. here we are, a nuclear north korea. is that the reality now? >> the u.s. and other countries say they won't accept north korea as a nuclear state. but the fact is, they are a nuclear state and the odds of the north giving up their nuclear capability are very minimal. which raises an interesting question, if you get back to diplomacy, what would be the goal? there are people who believe it is not impossible, if the u.s. and north korea started talking, to try to achieve a deal which the north would freeze its current capabilities in return for american economic and security concessions. but we're nowhere close to talking. what is most dangerous is you have this set of mixed messages from washington, threats on the one hand, but not backed up by enough force to really do anything. the north koreans, i don't take
the threat seriously. but the north i think could be spooked by the threats from trump and may lash out. so that's worrying. >> thank you very much. we'll have to leave it there, general. we are going to have a chance to talk about it later in the program. coming up, critics say when the going gets tough, the president goes golfing. do they have a point? we're keeping them honest, next. ♪when you've got...♪ ♪...nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea!♪ ♪nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea!♪ here's pepto bismol! ah. ♪nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea!♪ ray's always been different. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water.
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[ doorbell rings ] who's that? show me netflix. sign up for netflix on x1 today and keep watching all year long. as we said at the top of the show, the world seems to be coming a little unglued right now. the president himself called it a nasty place, a mess. when he said that just a couple of days ago, he had the look of a man who knows there is a lot of work to be done, and that he's the one to do it, which is what he promised during the campaign. he pledged to stay home and buckle down. >> i just want to stay in the white house and work my ass off and make great deals, right? who's going to leave? >> well, in fact, he's leaving. departing yesterday for
mar-a-lago, leaving a week ago for mar-a-lago, or perhaps march 17, leaving for mar-a-lago. now, in a week of serious foreign and domestic policy, 180s from the policy, this might not rank with his dv coiscoveri that nato is not obsolete. on this, the only difference is that was then and this is now. a reminder, here's then. >> i couldn't leave the white house very much, because like little things, like these little trips, they cost you a fortune. i love working. i don't take vacations. i'm not like obama where he takes air force one to hawaii. i don't take vacations. i promise you, i will not be taking very long vacations. there's no time for a vacation. other people go away for weeks and weeks. i don't like taking vacations. obama likes relaxing and going
on vacations. i like working. if i get elected president, i'm going to be in the white house a lot. i'm not leaving. we have deals to make. who the hell wants to leave, right? >> just not a vacation guy, he said. so keeping them honest, take a look. by the end of the weekend, president trump will have spent 24 days at mar-a-lago since taking office, and he's on much to spend in his first year on travel as president obama did in eight years. then there's golf. >> obama, it was reported today, played 250 rounds of golf. everything is executive order, because he doesn't have enough time because he's playing so much golf. obama ought to get off the golf course and get down there. i'm going to be working for you, i'm not going to have time to play golf. he played more golf last year than tiger woods. he plays more golf than people on the pga tour. i love golf, but i don't have time. if i were in the white house, i don't think i would ever see
dorall again. i'm not going to be playing much golf, believe me. if i win this, i'm not playing much golf. >> now, we don't actually know how much golf the president is playing, that's because the white house suspect sisn't sayi they do their best to keep it off camera. but as you can see through the shubery here, he began at west palm beach, his 17th visit to a golf course, outpacing president obama. in fairness, he does do official business at what's been called the southern white house. you'll remember he hosted foreign leaders there, including china's president. and some of his golf outings include foreign leaders, as well. ceos, other dignitaries, so it's not just play and no work. but he might take a lesson from another former president who never looked like he was out of the office, even when he was at his own vacation home on the
beach. welcome to our panel tonight. jack, i've got to start with you. how do you defend that? >> well, i would say this. number one, the american people always have the right to question the work habits and work venues of anybody who is elected to office. but i don't think you can ever say that he's not out there working, because no one from hollywood will play with him. unlike obama, where they stood in line to go out there and say i played golf -- >> he's given a lot of opportunities. >> the only people who are going to play golf with trump are out there for business and they're talking about how to change the economy, how to handle world affairs. >> he said during the campaign, he said i'm not going to do this. he brought it up. >> you know what? he's still getting it done. i think that's what is important. >> if you worked at a company and your boss gave you grief for playing golf on the weekends and
went out every weekend to play golf. >> well, you know, i understand that and i hear that. but i don't think anybody would say this is a 30-hour a week guy. this is a guy who works seven days a week, and he works in mar-a-lago. he works on the plane. he works on trips. he's a work-a-holic. to me, prcriticizing president obama for too much golf, maybe that's campaign rhetoric, but if you think how busy he's been since the inauguration, working putting his cabinet together, i think he's a work-a-holic. >> marie is chopping at the bit. >> here's the thing. trump is a lying, hypocritical flip-flopper. that's not news. >> oh, maria. >> i don't degrudge presidents for taking trips. i think he is working. here's the issue. $3 million it cost taxpayers every time he goes to
mar-a-lago. it's not just the hypocrisy of him saying he was just going to sit in the white house. he is going somewhere, and he's doing it on the taxpayer dime. every time he goes, it's like the most expensive taxpayer funded commercial for his own properties that he and his family is getting rich off of. that's something that the taxpayers should be concerned about. >> steve, how does president trump defend that to his base? this is a lot of money we're talking about here. >> i think you've got to define what his base is. i think we have to first of all come to grips with the fact that the old binary choice world of right and left we used to live in doesn't exist him. >> i'm not talking right or left, i'm talking about dollars spent. this is a straight up mathematical issue, that in the first year he's going to spend more money traveling than president obama did in eight. >> it kind of is. when obama did this --
>> it's kind of a money issue? >> no, it's kind of a left-right issue. when obama did this, a bunch of people who do what i do for a living, did their whole shows how he's leaving the american people behind. now they don't care that trump is leaving the american people behind. now it's working the other way. so i think if you're trump's base, it depends on which base. if it's his cult, and i've never seen a politician have a stronger cult in my life, i think trump can say and do whatever he wants. if you're talking about people that voted for him because he wasn't hillary clinton, they're disappointed by what they've seen so far. >> there is a part of the base that nothing penetrates, that rock solid connection. but does it resonate with anyone? >> it's a pattern of hypocrisy here, right? when you're able to show the setup that you showed, i went to
a lot of those rallies. this was a standard joke, this was a standard part of the trump talking points and hits on obama, that he equated playing golf with obama somehow being checked out, right? i'm just a little surprised how audacious he is about it. there's just no effort, there's no apology. >> this is not a subtle reversal. >> but do democrats want him in the white house working? >> the white house has leaks, maybe it also has mice. maybe they want to get out of there. obama never spent a christmas there >> stay with us. we'll come back to the panel. coming up, a closer look at the wall street millionaire who is now ensconced in the president's inner circle. what we know about the goldman sachs banker, right after this.
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the latest is a wall street millionaire, his name is gary cohn. and tom foreman has a profile. >> you don't mind having lower taxes, do you? >> reporter: across the president's broad agenda, from money matters to infrastructure -- >> we have to build roads and highways. >> reporter: one name is rising rapidly. >> where's gary, is he here? >> reporter: gary cohn, the former goldman sachs boss, who sold $240 million worth of stock to lead the president's economic council. his coziness with democrats and moderate views are in stark contrast to other conservative idealogues close to the president. but he's the pointman on a massive tax overhaul. >> my number one agenda is taxes. we are committed to get it done this calendar year. >> reporter: he's talking about other issues, too, including
health care, even as the obamacare repeal has floundered. >> it's not just about coverage but access to care, access to be able to see your doctors. >> reporter: and he's expected to help write new federal bank regulations. even though his old firm was dead center in the recession. >> we'll ask gary cohn's firm's dealings may or may not have contributed to the financial crisis. >> reporter: as a kid in ohio, he struggled with dyslexia. >> i worked really hard through high school and i worked really hard to get into college. >> reporter: that work ethic paid off in a 26-year hugely lucrative career at goldman. >> i never hesitated to get on a plane. i never hesitated to go somewhere. i never hesitated to deliver the tough message when it needed to be delivered. >> reporter: and now his pragmatic approach to politics and policy seems to be surging. when the president saw his first jobs report, guess whose name
came right up? >> his team, led by gary cohn, was really pleased with the numbers this morning. >> reporter: although he has critics on the left and right, he would like to be one of those rare souls who can talk to either side and make deals. and at least for now, the president seems vested in giving him that chance. >> tom tore mforeman, thank you much. bakari, xwgary cohn, we don't kw his party affiliation, but does it give you comfort to have him close to the president? >> as a democrat, gary is as close as you'll get. to being in donald trump's inner circle, all of these people who come in and then are just shown the door, we see steve bannon with one foot in, one foot out. the only people who stay in his inner circle are his children, that is it. that's really no loyalty within
this donald trump inner circle. but i do love the fact that donald trump is a part of one of the largest cons this country has ever seen in him becoming the president of the united states, got someone from goldman sachs to sell populism to the american people and talk about cutting taxes for middle class worker that. is phenomenal. but gary cohn has one problem, they just had a jobs report that had 94,000 jobs. those numbers are small, bigtime. >> what's interesting about gary cohn, he's a late comer. he wasn't with the campaign as long as many of his closest advisers. how did he jump to the front of the pack? >> part is that donald trump started off trying to be a nationalist and a populist, and it didn't work. he got off to a horrible start when he was listening to steve bannon, when he was giving speeches written probably by steven miller, and donald trump is -- doesn't have a core idealogical world view. he's about winning and putting
points on the board. and when the bannon philosophy didn't work, when it was an embarrassment, he decided to go a different corredirection. i think it seems to be working. my sense is that donald trump has turned a corner in the last several weeks. it feels like -- this isn't a left versus right thing as much as it's a sort of incompetence versus competence thing. >> steve, you brought up in the previous block about donald trump's base that is cultish, you said. donald trump took shots at goldman sachs, but here's a banker, does his base look at that and say, wait a second, i thought he was a man of the people. why is he hanging out with those guys? does it penetrate that support? >> let's think of that report. the one thing that came to my mind is to use a term coined by trump's cult, we're making
globalist cuts great again. i'm reminded of the last primary in indiana where one of trump's cult members stands in front of a ted cruz event and begins to chant at ted cruz and ted tries to address this individual with facts. it's like talking to that crazy jehovah's witness at your door that bothers you at 7:00 a.m. on saturday. you point out what they believe is scam and they go back to the talking points. that's exactly what you see from trump's cult. i wonder as you watch this unravel a little bit and he becomes chris christie style republican, moderate to liberal east coast republican, which is probably what he really is to begin with, you do wonder. when you watch the bill mitchells of the world ripping each other's spleens out when they became somebodies riding off of his exhaust, you do wonder where this is going to end. >> and you're starting to see
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the trump administration announced today that it will not make public white house visitor logs. instead, it will keep them secret until at least five years after president trump leaves office, citing grave national security risks as well as privacy concerns for white house visitors. the decision is a reversal from the obama administration and a reversal from mr. trump's own prior stance on the issue of transparency. nearly five years ago, then-citizen trump posted this accusation on twitter. why is barack obama spending millions to try and hide his records? he is is least-transparent president ever, and he ran on transparency. i'm back with my panel. jack kingston, help explain that turnaround. >> as i understand it's not that different from the obama administration. the obama administration, 2011, the center for public integrity, accused them of moving the logs from the secret service to the white house. and then a lot of those logs disappeared. they actually ended up in court before the obama administration
won and defended the position that they needed to keep some of it secret unless there was a foia request -- >> what happened, to be fair, the court ordered -- they won in court but the obama administration then released most or many logs and redacted ones that they considered national security issues. the question is why can't the trump administration do the same? if it's a national security risk, those won't be public, but the rest, open book. >> my suspicion is, in time, they will get to something that's closer to the obama administration. but for right now, i frankly think they ought to keep these records secret, which is what -- at least undisclosed, which is what the obama administration -- >> all white house -- >> this is not a partisan issue, though. >> no. >> that's why i'm kind of troubled by jack's sentiment. i mean, i understand we put on partisan hats, we talk about this all the time. but this is just an american responsibility, transparency issue. that's not donald trump's house.
that's the taxpayers' house. and he works for the taxpayers of this country. and the taxpayers deserve to see who's going in and out. we're not asking -- if it's a national security risk or a privacy concern, then redact it. but this isn't partisan at all. >> but they are following the obama court -- >> no, they're not. >> the position of releasing it -- >> but that just shows you -- that doesn't make it right but that also shows you the level of transparency. after the president won, he still released the records. >> to be clear, that is a fact. the court -- the obama administration did redact some for national security concerns. but they released a whole host voluntarily, in effect. that is a fact. >> they did release them on a regular basis. you could go to the website. the website since the obama administration left has been a blank page. so this is another area where there was -- back sliding in terms of government transparency and ethics. >> ethics standards for all the
people he's hired, a five-year lobbying ban -- >> he does not. >> what do you mean? he absolutely does. >> focus on the records. explain to viewers at home, wait a second, why did we need to know this, what's the value? >> president obama released 6 million names of the people that came in and out of the white house. right? bakari is right. >> a lot of it disappeared, though -- >> this is the people's house, this is not donald trump's house. and so much of what gets done -- >> donald trump met -- >> hang on jack. i didn't interrupt you. hang on. this is the people's house. the people's business gets done there. american taxpayers deserve to know who has gone in, who is coming out -- they don't want to say anything. >> would we all agree with that? >> there's no law that says this is the people's house and that they have a right, we have to be transparent. as a journalist, i'd like to
know this, then i could know -- it certainly came in handy who was meeting with hillary clinton and different things like that but there's no law that says this has to be done this way. before barack obama, bill clinton -- >> there's no law that requires you release your taxes but there's argument for it. >> transparency. >> did bill clinton do that? [ cross talk ] >> guys, we're running out of time. >> a lot of the our viewers -- i don't see this as a partisan issue. >> it shouldn't be. >> the clinton white house was wrong i could say for not releasing these records, just as wrong as donald trump is for not doing so. transparency evolves. >> final word to you, steve. >> first of all, i agree with tom, judicial watch was critical of the trump white house for doing this today. but i live in iowa, not washington. a lot of americans frankly are sick and tired of, well, obama did it so it's okay now, now it's not okay that trump's doing it, vice versa. what is the right cotton-picking thing to do for the american people? and just do it.
and stop making excuses. [ cross talk ] >> that's what children say. this is not how to govern a country, guys. this is how children communicate. even now when you're yelling at me, if i was making my point, that's how children talk. this is not adult leadership. >> why does the press constantly say, undisclosed sources? if we want to be fully transparent -- >> we're going to have to leave it. >> your voice being loud doesn't mean you're right. democracy dies in darkness. this is part of the darkness. >> we're going to have to leave it there, powerful quote. quote of the conversation goes to maria. >> hold that thought. much more to discuss the next hour of "360" including the possibility of another nuclear provocation from north korea's kim jong-un. not to mention its latest warning if the u.s. takes action against it. the latest on what could be an escalating standoff right after the break. success has always been measured in zeros.
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