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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  April 17, 2017 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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that's it for us. thanks for watching. time to hand it over to don lemon. "cnn tonight" start right now. a nationwide manhunt under way for a cold-blooded killer. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. police nationwide and the fbi looking for this man. take a good look. 37-year-old steve stephens. they say he shot to death robert godwin, a father, a grandfather, and then posted video of the killing on facebook. godwin's family distraught. >> the man who videotaped my father getting shot stripped him of his dignity. stripped him of -- stripped him of his dignity and posted our life for the whole world to see.
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i'm just angry. no, i don't want that man to die, i want him to be brought to justice. >> a very lengthy and emotional interview from that family coming up a little later on in this program. stay tuned for that. i want to turn to cnn correspondent bren. she's live in cleveland, ohio. police have been searching for the suspect since the murder. what did he originally do? >> reporter: don, he said he was going to kill someone, he posted this video on facebook, and then in that horrific video that was taken down from facebook, but people saw it because of the posting, he said that he wanted to kill someone. he stepped out of the car and he pointed a gun at the victim, 74-year-old robert godwin. and now he said, according to his mother who talked to cnn earlier today, he told her that it was because he was angry with
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his girlfriend. also in that video that he posted on line, he told the victim to say that woman's name before he shot him. now, authorities, we know, have talked to that woman. she is in some sort of protective custody at this point in the investigation, but no communication has been made with him at this point. as to why this happened, this is a huge question that everybody is asking. we're talking about a man who actually works with children, mentors them, with a company that he has been with since 2008, actually helps young adults from the foster care system transition into the work force. police are hoping that he'll turn himself in, don. >> he actually says why in the video. a lot of people aren't playing it, but he says why. he says he had issues. he said nobody takes him seriously. i think ilt's a perfect example
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of his mental state, but we're not playing that. police say they have no evidence of why he did it and now he's on the fbi most wanted list. what are they saying about that? >> reporter: i mean, at this point the entire nation is involved in this manhunt. you have u.s. marshals, you have the fbi, you have local authorities here in cleveland. we've been driving around this city, and you can't go anywhere without seeing his face and the description of the car he's likely in posted on billboards around here. a $55,000 reward is still on the table. police are hoping it will lead to information for his arrest. they're saying call your relatives, call your fem maeami members, make some sort of communication. >> he says he killed a number of people in that video that we're not seeing, but police say they don't have any evidence of that. have they found any evidence
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that he killed more than this one person? >> reporter: no, they have not. he said in that video he had killed 13 people. no evidence that he did. we do know that they have recovered some evidence, don. we know that authorities within the last 24 hours or so have done several searches on properties that were associated to stephens. we know that at one or some of those properties guns were recovered. however, we also know that stephens did have a conceal carry permit. >> and no idea where he is, correct? still no idea. he could be anywhere. >> reporter: yeah, he really could. i mean, authorities were sort of casting their net within the five states surrounding this area within states where he had family or ties, maybe reached out to people. because he was communicating at first with authorities, and then he cut that communication off. so that was the original sort of net, rather, from authorities, but now they're saying this is a nationwide manhunt, and they said don't doubt this.
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he is armed and he is dangerous and they're just hoping and praying that he turns himself in. >> okay, thank you, bren. again, steve stephens, a nationwide manhunt out for the killing of the 74-year-old gentleman. there's his picture up on the screen right there. if you have any information, i want to you call, reach out to authorities. they believe he is armed and dangerous. i want to bring in chris wecker, he's a former fbi analyst for cnn and a special fbi agent also is here. this is sick and monstrous, chris. it looks like a random murder that may have to do with his ex-girlfriend. how are police hunting him down right now? what are they doing? >> i think first and foremost they're enlisting the media to get his photo out there and get these particulars out there. he's probably the most recognizable person in america aside from celebrities and people like the president. so he's going to get spotted. it's a matter of time.
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i think that will make him increasingly more desperate as time goes on, as the pressure mounts. >> is it likely that he's still in the state, across state lines? do authorities have any idea? >> i think that given -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> this is for stuart. i'm sorry. go ahead, stuart. >> i can tell you the u.s. marshal apprehension unit is spearheading this investigation with local law enforcement. keep in mind, don, the fugitive apprehension unit is the most elite fugitive apprehension unit throughout the united states. this is what they do for a living every day of the week. they track down the most dangerous of dangerous individuals. they are pulling every stop out possible. they don't know where he is right now, but they have the technology and the ability and the infrastructure to utilize those tools to try to either
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snuff him out or hopefully use the public to get a sound lead so that they can apprehend him as quickly as possible, because they realize this gentleman obviously is showing the willingness to kill another human being. >> reva, there is so much evidence in there and i'm sure you can see his state of mind. he pointed out his girlfriend and then on facebook says he was at the point he snapped. what does this tell you about his state of mind? >> it tells me we're dealing with a very dangerous individual and also one who probably hasch. often in these cases there is not going to be a history of mental health treatment or anything that indicates this was relevant to the people around him or something could have happened where there could have been an intervention. that's what's so sad about this story, don. he's saying no one took him
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seriously, people ignored him. lots of times we do have people in the african-american community that have mental health challenges and they don't come forward, they don't get the help they need because there is a stigma attached to mental health issues, particularly in minority communities. so this is a horrible story, but hopefully a learning opportunity for individuals that may be suffering from some kind of mental health challenge to seek out help, and people around people like stephens, if you see people in need, you know, take them very seriously and get them the help that they need. because he's terrorized an entire community. >> that struck me as well as i was looking at this video. he said, i always tell people i have problems. i have lots of anger inside of me. you guys never took me seriously. you're always blowing me off. i just kept watching and thinking he appeared to be so normal. later we're going to speak to his fraternity brothers, and i think they say as well they would have trusted him the last time they saw him, around their kids. does anything stand out to you that maybe there was some sort
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of warning signs? >> he's crying out for help in that video. obviously not knowing his history, not being around him before he had this breakdown or committed this horrible crime, it's hard to know, don. but when i looked at the video, i saw a man in crisis. i saw a man searching for help, looking for help and unfortunately not getting that help, resort to go this horrific crime. again, i just want people to know that when people want help, help them because you can hopefully avert this kind of criminal activity we saw in this video. >> and we don't know about his mental status, but again, if someone tells you they need help, believe them even if they sound normal to you, right? so, chris, i want to show you something, because police pleaded with stephens to turn himself in. this is cleveland police chief calvin williams. >> steve, if you're out there listening, call someone, whether it's a friend or family member or pastor. give them a call because they're waiting on you to call them. >> think he'll turn himself in?
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>> i don't think so, but i know what the chief was trying to do. he was trying to throw that lifeline out there so that this doesn't end badly. you know, he was obviously rambling in the videos, he was irrational. by definition it's an irrational act. but he also was in contact with the detective and there appeared to be a little bit of negotiating going on, and they were trying to restore that. and they're very good negotiators, the fbi, the marshal service, the detectives. they have a pretty good profile on him, and if they could get him back on the line, they might have a chance of getting him in without further violence. >> stuart, did you want to add to do that? >> don, look, i think anyone who shows the propensity to kill another human being obviously has some mental health issues. i'm not so quick as saying -- my feeling, and i think a lawyer
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would find this person to be very callous and just a ruthless killer. because when you see the way he went about it, yes, there are some emotional issues and he's in a state of crisis -- >> he's matter of fact. >> yeah, very matter of fact, and i just think it was more calculated and cold-blooded, and there are people out there that need help. i think this type of individual needs to be put away in prison for the rest of his life. >> don, can i say something really quick about these on lines? we're seeing so many of these crimes being committed on line, posted on line. >> let me read this from facebook, i want to get this in. they released a statement saying, this is a horrific crime and we do not allow this kind of content on facebook. we work hard to keep a safe environment on facebook and are in touch with law enforcement in emergencies when there are direct threats to safety. go ahead, reva. >> i hope facebook takes advantage of this opportunity to improve its systems. sometimes when you just try to post a video that has
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copywritten music, facebook won't allow you to do that, but yet we keep seeing these videos of crimes pop up on facebook. we were told this guy stayed on line for three hours. that's way too long for this type of video, this type of content to be on facebook. so whatever their system is, improve it, because we should not be watching murders on facebook. >> thank you, all. when we come back, we're going to speak to fraternity brothers of steve stephens, how they knew him and their reaction to his violent killing. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months.
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okay, a nationwide manhunt tonight for steve stephens. he's accused of shooting to death 74-year-old father and grandfather and posting the video of the killing on facebook. i want to bring in jason clopman, walter madison and ben holbert, all fraternity brothers of steve stephens. gentlemen, thank you. i wish we could have met under better circumstances. walter, let me begin with you. when you saw the action of this terrible crime, what went through your head? >> i really struggled for a number of hours reconciling in my mind the guy that i know with the guy i see here on facebook, and i still can't really do it. it's just -- it's so surreal that, you know, it's just
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mind-blowing. so i just realize, and i've come to the rational conclusion, that he's obviously in some sort of mental crisis and this mental health issue is now, you know, in my life real personal. you can't help but have sympathy for the family, of course, but at the same time, compassion for those who suffer from chemical imbalances and not character issues. >> do you know if he was suffering from anything in the past? do any of you know anything about that? >> i'm not aware, don. not at all. but we definitely want to make sure that the family of mr. godwin knows that the members of omega si phi, the community, we send out our deepest condolences
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to the family. we have 73 chapters and brothers worldwide, so we want to make sure we know our condolences are with them. >> jason, when was the last time you saw him, and had he ever talked about violence or acted violently in front of you? >> last time i spoke to him he was at my house in october. i did speak to him on sunday prior to a couple minutes, maybe, before the shooting. >> you did. were you one of the people he was on the phone with? >> yes. >> in the video. >> yes. >> so what was he saying to you? what time did he call? what was he saying to you? what was going on? >> well, he was very apologetic. he said, you know, jason, i let the line down, i let my fraternity down, i let the chapter down, i let the fourth district down, and he just apologized for what he was
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doing. i, you know, tried to console him. i didn't really know what he was talking about until he said, i'll call you right back, or call me right back, but i'm about to post something on facebook. once i read the post, i saw it maybe two times and i tried to call him back and he did not pick up. >> so you never got a chance to speak to him again? >> no, i haven't spoken to him since the initial conversation. >> in the video i heard him say that to you, i let all these people down. so he was talking to you, jason. >> i can't confirm that he spoke to all of us that's on our line, two other people within about a five-minute period. so i think he may have said the same message to all of us. >> what did you say back to him? >> i wasn't -- i told him, you know, everything is going to be okay. whatever you're about to do, whatever you plan to do, you don't need to do it.
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my other line brother said, we can meet at my house and we can talk through it, see what's on your mind, but we never got ahold of him again. >> did he ever say -- in the video he said, i have issues and i'm always bringing my problems to you and people didn't take me seriously, did he say that to you? >> no. we're like brothers. we bring our problems to each other all the time. some we take seriously, some we don't take seriously, but he's never had any deep -- i guess deep thought issues that we could remember. it could be more or less, you know, my boss, i'm not getting along with this boss or coworker. but besides that, no. nothing that any normal person would have. >> because he also mentioned his mother. he said his mother didn't really pay attention to his problems, and again, we don't know his mental state or how much credence we should put in it because maybe he was okay, but
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obviously he was in some mental crisis. he said part of the reason he did it was because of his ex-girlfriend, the love of his life. did he ever mention her, or any trouble he may have had with her? >> don, no, he didn't. but i think the thing that we as an organization and friends and leaders of the community really would like to have america consider, it's not so much what he said and certainly it's not indicative of us as an organization, but people are struggling, and we are now aware that this is a very real issue, this mental health issue, and as leaders in the community, we want -- if you don't care about steve, that's fine, but some of the comments may incite a person, and there are other innocent people who may come in his path. we don't want any more bloodshed, we don't want any more harm. we're simply here as members of
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the community to suggest to steve, if he can hear us, let's transition peacefully and surrender so this ends better than worse for him, and this is our concern for america, this is our concern for steve, this is our sympathy for the godwin family. we are just simply trying to be the leaders that our organization, our illustrious organization, has been for 106 years. if you know -- steve, if you can hear this, please understand, there are people that care and we really want to make sure that you are safe, that you get the help that you need. and if you are anywhere in america, any brother in this country, in this world, please reach out to them and we will help you. >> i think it's amazing that you're saying that, but also what is extraordinary to me -- maybe it's not so extraordinary, especially when it's god-fearing people. i heard the family members.
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my colleague anderson cooper interviewed some of them, i interviewed some earlier and it's going to run later. they said they forgive him, they're not mad at him, they want him to turn himself in, they don't want to see him die. it's just interesting to me, ben, that the family can have that much dignity and that much grace. just before i go to you, ben, i'm going to give you the last word. walter, you're saying you don't want any copycats. that's basically what you're saying in that last sentiment? you don't want anybody to try to do the same thing. >> we don't want any more violence. we thank the family for their compassion because we certainly have sympathy and compassion for them. >> ben, what do you say to them and what do you say to the family and america who is watching? >> omega si phi, our chapter, we work closely with the police department and we're doing so at this moment. it's so vitally important for steve to turn himself in. he has talked about some of the challenges he has, so if he comes in peacefully, there can
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be somebody that can talk to him and we can glean information from why he participated in such a heinous act. but, you know, we really want this to end peacefully, and we think it can happen. and again, as walter said a few moments ago, we have brothers across the country who would receive him if he calls, but he's got to take the initiative so we can end this peacefully. >> ben holbert, jason clopman, walter madison. thank you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> god bless. when we come back, the white house saying president trump won't release his 2016 tax returns, claiming he can't because he's under audit. but experts agree, even if he's under audit, he can release them. so will he ever do it?
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tax filing tomorrow is a tax filing deadline for everybody. president trump won't be releasing his tax returns for 2016 or any other year despite many promises to do so. the press secretary sean spicer saying this today. >> we're under the same audit that existed so nothing has
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changed. >> is it time to say once and for all the president is never going to release his tax returns? >> we'll have to get back to you on that. >> he may? >> no, i said i'll have to get back to you on that. he's still under audit, the statement still stands. >> that means he probably won't, ever. i want to bring in shelby holliday, and richard painter, a former white house ethics lawyer. i think you might agree with me, right? not ever. >> it felt like we were watching an "snl" skit, yeah. >> trust me, we're in the middle of an "snl" skit. he refuses to give his tax returns while under audit. how about breaking this 40-year tradition without really any consequences? >> he does it because he feels like it, and that's been his attitude all along here, but he is not going to be very successful with proposing changes to the tax code if he's not going to release his tax
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returns so we can find out what loopholes and other provisions he's taken advantage of. so i would think that so-called tax reform is a non-starter until the president is willing to be transparent about his own taxes because the american people are not going to support so-called tax reform that's nothing but loopholes for billionaires and social m magnates. we need to figure out what is allowing him to pay lower taxes than everybody else, because we've seen some evidence that he may not be paying taxes at all. >> that's an interesting point if he says he's going to take on tax reform next and he's not transparent about his own taxes. shelby, the audit excuse president trump has given over and over again. but here's what anna masaglia points out. she says, tax code has required annual audits of presidents' taxes for 40-plus years. it never stopped release until
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trump. so nothing legally stops him from releasing returns under an audit. >> no, and we heard that time and time again on the campaign trail, too, even when he was a candidate and not president, nothing really prevented him from doing this. it's up to him, fine, that's fair, but i think the president should do what's in the best interest of the american people. there is a security concern. people want to know who he owes money to, who might be influencing him, what conflicts of interest he has, if any. there is also a political problem for him now. as richard mentioned, democrats are saying, we're not budging on tax reform until you release your he tax code, what are you being influenced by or what are you being motivated by? this is a top priority for republicans so that could pose a problem. >> there are even republicans saying he should release his taxes as well. >> and now it's becoming even more of a political problem because republicans are being pressured to pick a side. should he release them, should he not? paul cochran got in trouble
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because he defended president trump and got backlash. >> i think people see there is no excuse there as well. >> and a majority of americans say he should release his taxes. >> this weekend we saw thousands of people, richard, marching across several hundred cities, renewing their call for the president to release his tax returns. can the president maintain this under audit position for four years of his presidency when he's taking on the tax code? >> well, he can try, but i think we're getting fed up. i was at the tax march here in st. paul, minnesota. i gave a speech there, and the people who attended the march were very upset with the fact that the president has not released his tax returns. there are pervasive conflicts of interest in this administration. he's receiving unconstitutional payments from foreign governments. the list of problems goes on and on. and these tax reform proposals, most of the proposals being talked about really only benefit
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the top 1%, anyway, and the last thing we need is a billionaire president who won't release his tax returns, who is already enjoying all sorts of loopholes in the tax code who says he's going to take a run with it not to help the middle class but to help people like himself. that's not what the republican party platform or the democratic party platform should stand for. this whole tax reform idea is going to go absolutely nowhere unless there is a lot more transparency in this administration. >> shelby, you mentioned senator tom cotton. here he is defending the president. >> as far as i'm aware, the president says he's still under audit. [ booing ] >> he's the central issue of the campaign. hillary clinton and her campaign repeatedly criticized. >> so you would think that senator cotton and other
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politicians, especially republican politicians, they have made the calculation that it's not going to hurt them to defend the president with this audit thing, because the president still won. but do you think that's a good political calculation? >> that's up to them to decide in their districts, i suppose. >> you heard all the boos. >> you did hear boos. that was interesting, because when you look at polls, donald trump supporters don't really care he didn't release his taxes. they voted for him, they're fine with that. but it is interesting that republicans are getting some heat for this, and i think that exchange also shows that trump owes more of an explanation than "i'm under audit" at this point. we've been hearing that for more than a year. billionaires have very complicated tax returns. they can file extensions, they can be under audit for many years. none of that is surprising at all. but to just say i'm not releasing them because i'm under audit doesn't fly with the american people. and you don't have the romney risk anymore where it could hurt you at the polls.
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as tensions with north korea escalate, vice president mike pence makes a very public appearance on the korean peninsu peninsula. thank you for coming in. the image of this vice president staring across the dmz a very powerful one. let's look at it. what message do you think this moment was designed to give, and how do you think north koreans interpreted it, fareed? >> it's interesting, the administration has been trying to send this very tough message, the iconic i am imagine, secretary of defense, vice presidents have done it. but it's part of a package.
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rex tillerson said the patience is over. all is well and good, but then you go on to understand what is the new strategy. it turns out the new strategy is basically the old strategy, which is we're going to try to push them, we're going to crank up sanctions a little bit, we're going to try to get the chinese to do more. because the truth is the only really significant shift would be an american military strike, which is highly i mplausible. the south koreans would not agree with itment rememb. remember, if this were to happen, the chinese would be inflamed in war. the south koreans wouldn't like the prospect, so it's very, very unlikely. add to that, the north korean assets are hidden, some are underground, we wouldn't get most of them. so it's a military strike with
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many, many political complications. then you ask, what's the strategy? well, the strategy is what it's been for the last 15 years which is try to find some way to get china to push north korea because they're the only ones with leverage. >> having said that, i heard colonel sedgwick say earlier that 13 presidents have been trying to solve the dilemma of north korea, the last three of them as a nuclear state. why is it so hard? are the options to just push harder, as you said? those are the only options? >> it's a really good question. north korea is probably the most isolated state in the world. you think about what normally works with countries. it's some kind of pressure where you say, you can't do banking anymore, you can't sell your goods anymore, your tourists can't travel anywhere anymore. north korea doesn't have any tourists, it doesn't have any banking it doesn't have -- you know what i mean? it's totally economically isolated. the regime has also been willing to impose and take pain like
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nothing else. they allowed 2 million of their own people to starve during a famine about 15 years ago. so this is a tough one where the only country that does anything with them is china. china provides them with, i think it's 90% of their energy and 50% of their food. but what the chinese say to the americans is, if we push them, that regime will collapse, we'll have millions of refugees, we'll end up with a messy, chaotic korean unification, which means we'll now have an american ally on our borders with american troops, because south korea is, of course, right next door. so the chinese are not as willing, but the key has to be through china. for all the bluster, and what i worry about is the trump administration is talking very tough, but they don't have a new strate strategy. their new strategy is the old strategy, which is try to get china to -- at some point your words lose credibility.
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you say, hei'm huffing and puffg and blow your house down. if the house doesn't blow down, what happens? >> as you said, the new position is the old position. i don't know if people actually realize that. >> by the way, this is all happening with an administration that has no staff. there is no deputy secretary of state, there is no assistant secretary for asia. the assistant secretary, the person who would handle this, is somebody just in the acting job who says i don't know what this administration's asia policy is. all i know is the obama administration's pivot to asia is all dead. this is all happening with a skeleton crew. >> let's talk about the political ramifications or implications for this all around the world for us. you know, not just north korea. because his america first rhetoric worked for him during the election and got him into office, but so far he's already bombed syria, sent missile strikes to syria and afghanistan and made a major military move
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towards north korea, or he did. so the question is, why? >> i think in the case of syria, i think he was confronted with a violation of the obama red line that i think they appropriately felt they had to take action on. the afghanistan one seems to have been a kind of bizarre case where it's not even clear the trump people were given -- you know, it's not clear the president gave authorization for the moab, but he clearly has told the military, ramp up your operations. anywhere where you have a question about whether to strike or not, go for it. he's not as worried about civilian casualties. the problem is it's not going to produce success on the ground which will come from political settlements, political negotiation. so i don't think it gets him much. i think that the thought has been that it will give him a momentary boost in approval ratings. the approval ratings are up from 35 to 40. >> 40, 41. >> and one of these operations goes badly and they'll go down
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again. >> may i ask you, then, because we've been speaking so much and discussing in the headlines about the administration being mired in this whole rush of controversy and turmoil, that they owe policy initiatives and on and on. is this a wag of the dog? is some of this a diversion? >> i don't think so and i don't know. there is no question that any administration, any president knows when you use military force, you look presidential, and there will be people who criticize me for saying that word, but i just mean the opt s optics, that you look presidential. it usually doesn't last for long. bill clinton tried it during the monica lewinsky scandals, and what really kept clinton's approvals up was a mass ive economy and the sense that republicans had overreached. i don't think people were impressed by cruise missiles hitting a tenth of the desert in afghanistan. >> it always comes back to a
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controversy surrounding the president no matter what else happens in the news, and with this president it keeps coming back to russia. >> the mystery remains, which is why are there so many contacts with this one administration, with this one campaign, with this one country? >> fareed zakaria, thank you very much. make sure to watch fareed zakaria on sunday at 10:00 a.m. a very busy day at the white house. the president and melania trump hanging out with the easter bunny -- thanks, easter bunny -- hosting their very first easter egg roll. our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia
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and we're back. i'm going to bring in the co creator of showtime's "the circus." i enjoyed it and i enjoyed this weekend. big day at the white house np easter egg roll. was president trump giving a pep talk of sorts? >> we're going to come out and enjoy you and your company for a roll, a great easter egg roll. and i don't know if we're going to be successful but i've seen those kids and they're highly,
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high lay competitive. that i can tell you. >> would you expect anything less, mark? >> it's just an odd juxtaposition. there's a lot of dut ayes you have to carry out but given all that's been going on, korea, all the varheavy duty challenges we're facing, why not just recalibrate that? let don jr. go and he was there. and send the message that you've got moir important stuff to do and i think most people would rather see the president focus on. >> but don't you think he'd get -- >> yeah, he'd get it either way. as i was thinking this morning i'm at this easter egg hunt and
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then i'm going to talk to the resistance. it's wired. >> doint get my wrong i love isoer and all it stands for but the easter bunny is kind of creepy. i've always been creeped out by the easter bunny. yeah. okay. that's just me, folks. not mark mckinnen. >> i'm pro easter bunny. >> i'm not saying i'm against it. it's just a little bit creepy. it's also very powerful symbol. an immigrant reminding an american to do the patriotic thing. >> i was struck hearing milania speak and i heard this immigrant voice and this weird juxtaposition and singing the song, the patriotic song.
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the whole thing just had a weird science fiction style about it. >> i have to ask you about this. play it. >> if you don't know president trump recently bombed siria while eating the most beautiful pice of chocolate cake america has ever laid eyes on. that's a fact. >> by the way sean spicer used to be the easter bunny in previous administrations. >> and he was out there today. >> last week we were talking about the snl effect on steve bannon. and do you think sean spicer's handling the briefings differently now? >> i've been a press guy and i think press secretary for the president is a bad idea. i thought he walked that back as well as anybody i've ever sign
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walk it back. i thought that was a good moment for sean spicer. >> high seemed humon for the first time since becoming pres sec retear. >> when they just show a human side, apologize, you know makes you much more likable. >> yeah. a lot of people are wondering what happened to sean spicer before he came? like the kind of guy you'd want to have a beer with now and then but i think you're right. he seemed like he was humble. >> you're right. maybe it has humbled him a bit. but high was out there with his kids and he seemed very human and approachable. >> this moment caught me and it's from your show "the circus "and i want to ask you about this point. it's from congressman elijah cummings. watch this.
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>> i kant imagine what it must by like to by particularly a person of color. i would be befuddled that the first african american president would be followed by trump. >> as an african american who is a student of politics, trying to come up with the answer is painful. to see this as i walk towards the evening of my life -- um, it makes me want to work night and day for the ris of my life to try to make sure that we make the best of the situation. this is bigger than trump. this is about the soul of our
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democracy. >> wow. the soul of our democracy. >> it was so emotionally poignant and one of the best we've had in the whole show. on so many levels there was pain, there was just deep thought about where we are, where we're headed and he said great things. and john asked him how did he measure the fear in his communities? high said by how full the churches are. and he talked about his relationship with trump which is pretty good. they have a working relationship and what's interesting about that is john said has anything come out of that? and he said yeah, i talked to him specifically about voter fraud. it's just not true. it doesn't happen and since they had that conversation wie haven't heard anything on that issue, which i think is interesting. >> there are many african
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americans in this country who feel the same way he files because of the entire birther issue. they feel that issue was not only disrespiktful to the president but it was racist, insensitive and tried to delegitimize him as a human being and i don't know if he can be forgiven by the majority of african americans in this country because of that one thing. >> perfectly understandable. it says a whole lot about i ilieshau comings that he stwld grace and respect after that. >> thank you, sir. >> kick it. >> kick it. i have love that guy. we'll be right back. to put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. so draw the line. roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming a single blade of grass. draw the line with roundup for lawns.
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