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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  March 26, 2018 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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okay, maybe, in one of my pools. we'll see. thank you, all, so much for joining me today. i'm john berman. "at this hour" starts now. this is cnn breaking news. >> i'm brianna keilar in for kate bolduan. president trump sending a powerful message to moscow, the president expelling 60 russian diplomats, giving them days to get out of the united states. this is in response to the poisonings of a former russian double agent and his daughter in the uk. those being kicked out include 48 diplomats, attached to the russian embassy, and 12 at the united nations. i want to get straight to cnn senior diplomatic correspondent michelle kosinski with the details for us. tell us what else can you say about these actions? >> reporter: well, they have a
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week to get out of the united states. 12 of them are based in new york at the u.n. the other 48, we're told, by the state department spread throughout the u.s. at various embassies and consulates. last night talking to sources, when there started to be rumblings that this would happen, nobody really knew the scope of it, there was talk, well, maybe the u.s. would match the uk's number of russian diplomats that they expelled of 23. so to see the u.s. this morning nearly triple that number is surprising and making the brits quite pleased this morning. russia has many hundreds of diplomats working in the u.s. and to put this into perspective, over the summer, there was a tit for tat over expulsions, vladimir putin said now there was an equal number in each other's country of 455. so for the u.s. to take 60 out of that chunk, that's 13% of
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russian diplomats in the u.s. administration officials this morning didn't just call them diplomats, they clearly termed them intelligence agents, calling these russians aggressive collectors of intelligence. also, the u.s. is fully shutting down the russian consulate seattle saying it is located too close it a u.s. submarine base there and saying this action will keep the u.s. safer and significantly cut down russia's ability to spy here. here is a statement from the white house. with these steps the united states and allies and partners make it clear to russia its actions have consequences. the united states stands ready to cooperate to build a better relationship with russia, but this can only happen with a change in the russian government's behavior. so this is a strong response, it is surprising, not only to people here in this country, but to european countries as well. still questions and criticisms, one obama era official saw the statement and said that's great, coming from the press secretary,
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though. doesn't vladimir putin need to hear from president trump himself on this. it was only days ago that the president's national security team recommended in capital letters he not congratulate putin on his election victory, he did just that. now with a new national security adviser coming in, new secretary of staple cote coming in, the w will be watching to see what kind of start this is, and possibly more consequences for russian behavior. >> michelle kosinski, thank you. let's go to russia now. we'll see if there has been any reaction from the kremlin where matthew chance is. what are you hearing from them? >> reporter: well, the response has been pretty predictable. they called this provocation, they called it an unfriendly act, not just talking about the expulsions from the united states, but also the expulsions from the european union. 14 countries from the european union.
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and that's -- they were also expelling diplomats there at the same time as the united states. it sends this message of unity from the west that this kind of activity, this behavior, the alleged nerve agent attack in salisbury is not going to be tolerated. it is a sign that patience is wearing out. on the more specific response, the russian foreign ministry issued a statement on its facebook page. saying that this is political act, talking about the united states and the european union. and its continuation of confrontation to escalate the situation does nothing to deal with or determine the circumstances around what happened to the skripals, the russians deny any involvement in that nerve agent attack on the skripals. they floated numerous different narratives, alternative narratives as to what could have happened including blaming the united states for poisoning these two individuals. so, you know, this is something that has been a feature of
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russian denials, they time and again, you know, deny that they got anything to do with whether it is this, the downing of mh-17, malaysian airliner over eastern ukraine, doping in the olympics, the annexation of crimea, you get a sense this is the west coming together in unison and saying, look, our patience is wearing thin. >> matthew chance in moscow, thank you. i want to bring in cnn national security analyst shawn turner to talk about this. he served in the u.s. marine corps for 21 years and is press secretary for the national security council under president obama. and we have samantha vinograd, former adviser on president obama's national security council. what message does this send, expelling 60 diplomats? >> this is a pretty significant message from this administration. for a couple of reasons. first of all, as matthew said, this sends a really strong message of solidarity with the
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west. we talked about the president and the administration's language with regard to russia for quite some time now and we haven't seen anything this strong with regard to the rhetoric and the action. it is also significant that they're expelling 60 russian diplomats. i spent some time with the intelligence community. from an intelligence perspective, russian diplomats are not like other diplomats. they're so integral to russian intelligence collection efforts no matter the title. from that perspective, this is a fairleigh significant move on the part of the administration. >> sam, what do you think? >> i think it is significant. it is an unprecedented show of unity against russia. but i think we have some data points worth considering here. one is that russia has not been deterred by expulsions in the past. we have kicked out diplomats, they have retaliated. and so i don't know that we have any indication that russia actually cares about losing these diplomatic foot holds around the world and the question that i have and this
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was alluded to in some of statements by public sector officials today is whether that this is part of a sequence of actions that the international community is considering. we spent a lot of time in the situation room, you and i both know that kicking out diplomats is the first box to check on a list of punitive actions. my questions are what else may be coming that will impose costs of putin cares about. >> that's an interesting question. i wonder what you think with senior administration officials saying that these actions today are in response to the uk attack, but also part of a steady drumbeat of destabilizing actions by russia after today. some, especially folks who support president trump, are going to say look at what he's done. you can't say now he's too soft on russia. but it sounds like you're saying this is just really the first box to check. >> kicking out diplomats is. the president has imposed some targeted sanctions against some russians. but to quote the president's
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incoming national security adviser, john bolton, this is not real deterrence. i never thought i would be missing john bolton, but i wish john bolton was in a situation room right now because he has called for stronger measures. they have massive costs that the national security council will have to consider, like offensive cyberoperations, and like broader sanctions against people that putin cares about. >> sam wants john bolton in the situation room right now. >> i know. >> so, shawn, last week there was a phone call, president trump calls putin even though he's told not to congratulate him on his election win, he goes ahead and does that. he doesn't raise this attack, he faced a lot of criticism for doing that. now i know he was involved or there were all these meetings throughout that time period about this decision that has been made. so what do you read into that now? >> i think the president's advisers are getting to him and helping him understand this is the time to finally do something
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with regard to russia. this is a really important moment in this president's administration. for a long time, we have been asking the question, why doesn't the president come out more forcefully against russia? why is it that his administration and people who work for him will say -- make strong statements against russia, but he will not do that? here we have the statement from the white house that uses pretty strong language, we have the statement from the state department that is also very strong. but the president hasn't said anything. president has a decision to make here. either he can come out and he can maintain this strong tone against russia, or he can say absolutely nothing at all. it is a key moment for him to decide whether or not he's actually going to finally stand up against russia. >> his rhetoric matters as do these actions. shawn turner, thank you very much. sam vinograd, appreciate it. coming up, stormy daniels breaks her silence on her alleged affair with donald trump, detailing a sexual encounter and threat to stay silent. plus, sources telling cnn that president trump is getting ready to send another top
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it has the fiber found in many fruits and vegetables, all in a tasty chewable tablet. fiber choice: the smart choice. porn star stormy daniels breaking her silence, delivering her first on camera interview about an alleged affair with donald trump. she says it was a one time encounter, a dozen years ago, but says years later in 2011 she was threatened and told to keep silent about it. >> i was in a parking lot, going to a fitness class with my infant daughter, taking the seat facing backwards in the back seat, diaper bag, getting all the stuff out, and a guy walked up on me. and said to me, leave trump alone, forget the story, and then he leans around and looked at my daughter, a beautiful little girl, would be a shame if something happened to her mom and he was gone. >> and this morning the attorney for daniels is issuing threats
quote
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of his own. he says the "60 minutes" interview is not the last we'll hear from his client. >> we have a whole host of evidence. this is not going away. and mr. cohen and the president better come clean with the american people and they better do it quickly. >> the president apparently responding to the stormy daniels story saying so much fake news, never been more voluminous or more inaccurate. through it all, our country is doing great. cnn's m.j. lee is in new york. how is the president's personal lawyer responding to all of this? >> reporter: these allegations from stormy daniels and her lawyer continue to be very, very serious. she is saying that she has received multiple threats including a physical threat against her young daughter. and, of course, michael cohen's lawyers are pushing back on this, really hard. last night after the interview aired, one of michael cohen's lawyers sending a cease and desist letter saying stormy better stop making false and defamatory statements and asking
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for a retraction and apology and as for the vegas incident in the parking lot where she said she received a threat from a man including one that was directed at her daughter, they're saying that they believe this is an incident that never happened, they don't even think this person exists. and one of cohen's lawyers actually went on air this morning and called all of this ridiculous. here is what he said. >> so 12 years ago, somebody approaches her in a parking lot, okay, and what does she do? she doesn't go to the police, she goes to her pilates class. this is ridiculous. >> reporter: as you heard, avenatti saying he says this is not going to be the last time we hear from stormy daniels. i think going forward, the bar they're going to have to clear is going to be will they be able to produce evidence that shows the threats, specifically came from michael cohen or others close to the president. >> stormy also in this interview and in a pretty interesting part addressed the statement she signed in january where she
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denied the affair. tell us what she said about that. >> reporter: the reason this interview was so important and so highly anticipated was because we were hearing from stormy daniels directly for first time and on camera, you know, the lawyers and the written statements, the social media statements that we have heard about stormy daniels and the incident, those are very different from hearing directly from her and i think one of the biggest issues that she had to address last night was this $130 payment she received from michael cohen, and that payment has raised some credibility issues so far, right. why does she accept the money, and why does she repeatedly deny that she even had this affair with donald trump. and she is basically said last night it was because she felt threatened and because she felt like she had no choice. here is what she said about that. >> so you signed and released a statement that said i'm not denying this affair because i was paid in hush money, i'm denying it because it never
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happened. that's a lie. >> yes. >> if it was untruthful, why did you sign it? >> because they made it sound like i had no choice. >> no one was putting a gun to your head. >> not physical violence, no. >> you thought there would be some kind of legal repercussions. >> correct. the exact sentence used was they can make your life hell in many different ways. >> just want to quickly note too, we really don't know how first lady melania trump is reacting to all of this. mostly because she is such a private person who avoids the public spotlight. you have to think that the white house is pretty concerned about whether there are going to be more women with similar stories that come out in the coming weeks. >> good point. m.j. lee in new york, thank you. it is not clear if president trump actually watched stormy daniels interview with anderson cooper. this morning's tweet is not his only venting on the topic. kaitlan collins at the white house. tell us what you're hearing about the president's reaction. >> reporter: that tweet this
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morning is the only reaction we have seen from the president publicly, but we know that before this interview even aired, the president had been complaining privately about the coverage that these allegations made by stormy daniels were getting on cable news, he perceived for wall to wall coverage, something that he thought was too much, complaining about how much this story was in the headlines which shows the president was keeping tabs on how the story was playing out in the media. he arrived back at the white house last night from palm beach, a weekend spent there, he didn't answer questions about whether or not he was going to watch this interview, it was roughly 20 minutes before the interview was set to air on "60 minutes." that's what we heard from the president so far. the white house tried to distance themselves from this story here, not taking any more questions on it, even though there have been multiple questions that the press briefings regarding this. but it is finding it harder and harder for the president to keep his distance, especially since this is becoming a legal matter. since this is staying in the headlines so much. it is not just stormy daniels
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who is speaking publicly in an interview. also karen mcdougal, that former playboy model who said she also had an affair with the president. so it certainly has been becoming a thing that is more and more especially as the legal matter ramps up here. >> how is melania trump or her office responding to this? >> reporter: she did not travel back to washington with the president last night. and the white house says this is because of a preplanned vacation staying in florida with their young son, of course, saying it is his spring break. as many people were tweeting about the fact that melania did not come back to washington with the president, her communications director stephanie grisham seemed to respond to all of the comments on that, writing on twit, quote, while i know the media is enjoying speculation and salacious gossip, i would like to remind people there is a minor child whose name should be kept out of news stories when at all possible. >> kaitlan collins at the white house, thank you.
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let's bring in paul callan. one thing noticeable, especially if you watched the karen mcdougal interview with anderson and the stormy daniels interview with anderson, they both met with president trump in his hotel room for dinner, both said he told them they were special and they threminded him of his daughter ivanka, they both said they did not use a condom when they had sex with him. does this make the allegations more believable and i would point out knowing that the stormy daniels interview was taped before the karen mcdougal one, not like there is a way this could have been coordinated, do the similarities matter here? >> i think if you look at the believability of both women, the similarities are extremely important. you try a case, you pursue a criminal investigation, you're always looking for corroboration in the form of similar actions, taken by the person under investigation. so here you have stories that
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line up with each other perfectly. but i think the bigger question, is what does it all mean in the end? is it a high crime and misdemeanor under the constitution of the united states that could cause the president to be removed from office. and from what i see so far, it is not unless that incident in the vegas parking lot where there were physical threats allegedly made against stormy daniels, now, that would arise to a very, very serious crime if that could be linked to the president. but at this point, it is so long ago, i just find it hard to believe that you'll be able to find a link directly to the president. >> we keep hearing, you know, voters know of this, they have forgiven him before, just not cared about his behavior or alleged behavior, but at the same time, is there something different about having women like karen mcdougal and stormy daniels go out on television and tell their story in their own words like this? >> i do think there is something
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different. before the election we had a smattering of allegations from several women that were never definitively proven true. what we have now with karen mcdougal and stormy daniels is evidence that the president actively sought to silence the women and cover them up by paying them off. i think that adds to the credibility of these women, and also raises some legal issues for the president, that's what you're hearing lawyers come out and talk about, and suggests it could have played a role in the election. that's why i think that these two women are getting more attention, and are sort of in a different category than the other allegations. and the final thing i would say is stormy daniels i think is pretty media savvy and besting the president at his own game. she and her lawyer michael avenatti really have mastered the sort of drip, drip, drip and she has managed as a result to
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sort of stay on the front pages and in the headlines for about a month now. >> it has been some time. seems to have just grown as we saw this crescendo into this interview last night. in the interview, paul, stormy daniels said she was threatened twice to keep quiet. once that time in 2011, where she says a strange man approached her, she was getting her infant daughter out of the car, in a parking lot in vegas, and then this other time from her former manager, and her former attorney in 2016, who was relaying, it sounds like, how difficult life could be made for her. cohen's attorneys, michael cohen's attorneys responding with a cease and desist letter denying cohen was involved. they didn't say anything specifically about 2016. what are the questions that you have about the issue of threats and intimidation in this case. >> you know, i think if threats and intimidation occurred, depending upon the wording of the threats and intimidation,
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that could be criminal activity. and if it was done by an agent of the president, and michael cohen certainly has been his personal attorney for a long time, this could cause serious problems for the president. but you have to remember that lawyers when they're talking to somebody who has breached allegedly a contract, they can use what sounds like very harsh words which sound like threats, which are really just saying, listen, we have a contract, and we're going to enforce the contract, and we're going to come down really hard on you with the contract. now, do you feel threatened? well, maybe you would from that kind of language. but what i said just then is perfectly legal. >> that is a real gly good poin paul. what is the president thinking about this, that's something we want to know, one of his friends, christopher ruddy, the news max ceo said that trump called the stormy daniels story, quote, a political hoax. but the president himself, he's -- has he without
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addressing this story and not really getting into it, and not putting that out there publicly, what does that tell you? >> it has been so interesting about the stormy daniels story is unlike so many of these other media stories, the president stayed silent about it until this morning when he finally tweeted about it. we know he has been fuming about this behind the scenes. i would say that the $130,000 payment suggests that the president was very worried about this story becoming public and his relative silence by comparison to the other stories, by comparison to his reaction to other stories is he knows this say real threat to him and is keeping his mouth shut about it. >> we didn't hear from the -- we did hear from the first lady's spokesperson, not from the first lady herself, it wasn't a denial, didn't say this was fake news, it just said basically reminder that there is a minor child involved here whose name should be withheld from stories whenever possible. what did that say to you? >> i don't think we have gotten any indication throughout the
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trump presidency that melania trump is particularly invested in protecting her husband's reputation here or in denying that he has not been the most faithful husband to her throughout their marriage. >> she seems upset, though. we have seen that word, maybe they're not traveling together, maybe they're -- very key points -- >> i think the only thing she cares about really is protecting her son who is 12 or 13 years old and think that's what's coming across in stephanie grisham, her spokeswoman's statement. >> as she should be. thank you very much. be sure to watch "ac 360" tonight because anderson will have much more on his one on one with stormy daniels at 8:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, the white house revolving door spinning into hyperdrive. sources telling cnn that president trump is getting ready to give his veterans affairs secretary the boot as he shakes up his legal team on the russia probe as well. details ahead. great, another dead end.
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could another member of the trump cabinet be cleaning out his desk soon in? shulkin has been under fire after an inspector general report detailed how he and his wife used taxpayer dollars for a european trip. cnn's jeff zeleny is live at the white house with more details for us. jeff, is this not a matter of if but when it comes to shulkin? >> reporter: it seems that way. the reality is the president has long expressed privately his displeasure for what is happening at the va. he does not believe that it is being run smoothly. he was furious about some of the spending there. and simply the va has not been operating that well with all this political upheaval there. the question is timing.
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of course it is up to the president as we have always seen when he decides to make a change. i'm also told that the white house is looking for a replacement, so they have a replacement to sort of have on board around the same time they make this public. but in the last several weeks we have seen a top level major firing every week. so we certainly wouldn't be surprised if something happens this week but the timing is up to the president entirely when this happens. the va is a difficult spot to fill. it is basically, you know, a large administrative role, they administer health care for so many veterans. it is certainly something that is a difficult position to fill and it raises the question is it going to be challenging for this administration to get top level qualified kaey eied candidate t serve or not. we have our eye on that as well as other potential staff changes here at the white house. >> and his legal team, i mean, what is going on there? just days after announcing two
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new lawyers for his russia legal team, they're already out, what happened? >> reporter: certainly it seemed like the president simply did not have a good fit with joe digenova, had a meeting with the president last week. this was about the shortest-lived assignment we have seen, really only lasting 72 hours or so before that first meeting and never was even on board here. so now the president, of course, saying over the weekend, he's happy with his legal advisers. it is a pretty slim list, basically one lawyer jay sekulow is essentially running the president's legal team and, of course, this is all building up to the central question, will he sit down with bob mueller's team, so we'll see if there are other lawyers hired this week, but certainly a very small group, because the reality is many lawyers here in washington and elsewhere simply do not want to handle this assignment. >> he's a notoriously tough
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client as we have reported before. jeff zeleny at the white house, thank you. after a weekend of marches here in washington, all around the world, hundreds of thousands pushed for an end to gun violence, where does this movement go from here?
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my secret visitors. hallucinations and delusions. the unknown parts of living with parkinson's. what plots they unfold, but only in my mind.
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over 50% of people with parkinson's will experience hallucinations or delusions during the course of their disease. if your loved one is experiencing these symptoms, talk to your parkinson's specialist. there are treatment options that can help. my visitors should be the ones i want to see. welcome back. hundreds of thousands poured into the streets to protest this -- protest for their lives this weekend. students who inspire the march say this is just the beginning. >> i think the outcome is really a great start. and what we witnessed on saturday was really the birth of a revolution. this is just the beginning. nobody should be thinking this is the end, especially the politicians that are out there, that are supported by the gun
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lobby and nra. that was an outportiuring of support to show the materialization of the support we have online. >> with the rallies over, the question is what now? is this truly a movement that can change public opinion on the most divisive of issues or a blip in the country's long complicated history with guns. joining me now we have republican strategist doug high, and cnn political commentator and former clinton white house aide keith boykin. doug, parkland students yesterday suggesting on fox news that the nra had really gotten to president trump and that is where he currently stands. let's listen to what they said. >> he had a meeting with the nra after that. and suddenly he backed down. >> is that what you think it is? >> it is -- to call it a coincidence seems like a bit of a stretch because to say all of these incredibly firm stances
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and then to immediately backpedal on them after having a meeting with the nra and not a long time period difference there, it reads sketchy to me. >> it reads sketchy to her. and it is interesting because president trump made such a point in his meeting with his bipartisan meeting with lawmakers to say, look, i'm not beholden to the nra, you all are. so how is that going to play with the president who really wants to project this image of being in the pocket of no one. >> i wrote a piece for cnn.com last month that said trump in a unique position to be the republican that makes the big deal, the big beautiful deal. we have seen this kind of -- these kinds of maneuvers from trump on so many other issues, the big bold announcement and then the fine print is found out after the fact, ask anybody on daca or immigration, trump wanted to make a deal, caught republicans by surprise, and slowly walked away from the deal. this is inconsistency. >> it is like someone says to him in a way, you're really in danger of alienating your base
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if you do this. and that's the message that gets to him and it seems like that's when he backpedals. >> if there is one constant we learned from trump, even if his base is willing to give him the leeway to do things, he doesn't take his base. you have a base to take it and lead it places, trump hasn't been able to do that yet. >> how do you think this issue plays out in the midterms? is it going to? is this really going to have an effect when you're looking at, say, swing districts and states that are competitive? >> i think it is too early to say, but i think the difference between this movement and previous movements is that you have young people actually engaged in the process and registering people to vote. millennials outnumber baby boomers. if we get them to show up to the polls, we would have cataclysmic changes in public policy as a result of their influence. they don't see the world the way donald trump and his age group sees the world. i think there is a real potential to have an impact. question is will they turn out to vote. and i don't want to be the cynic
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and say they won't, but this is an opportunity and i think the good thing is they are actually registering people to vote. march for our lives, registering people to vote there. those are good steps that will help push the movement forward and help change the -- have an impact in the electoral process as well. >> keith, you say you don't want to be the cynic to say they won't, is that your concern? that's your concern? >> well, yeah, that's always a concern. i teach at columbia and tell my students who question why can't we change this, or why is this the way the world is, why do politicians respond to these people, and the reason is because young people don't vote in the same ways that older people do. if young people voted, the world would change overnight. and we see this in terms of, for example, look at the issue like marriage equality, 10, 15 years ago, nobody thought that was conceivable. reality is the young people were the ones to change the consensus of public opinion on that. and they could do the same thing on gun laws if they're willing to go to the polls that show their strength and exercise their voices, their vote. >> i want you to listen to
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something that rick santorum told me yesterday. >> how about kids instead of looking to someone else to solve their problem, do something about maybe taking cpr classes or trying to deal with situations that where there is a violent shooter. >> how are they looking at other people -- they took action. >> they took action to ask someone to pass a law. they didn't take action to say how do i as an individual deal with this problem? how am i going to do something about stopping bullying within my own community. what do i do to help respond to a shooter? those are the kinds of things where you can take it internally and say how is how i deal with this, here is how i help the situation. >> what is your reaction to that? >> i want to compartmentalize that a little bit. one, that's looney tunes. we all know that. you can look at that. i think senator santorum would look back and say that's not exactly what i wanted to say or i didn't -- it didn't come across well. two, i may not agree with all the policy ideas i saw from the marches or a lot of the rhetoric, a lot of nasty
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rhetoric toward marco rubio. i look at the students. i'm proud of them. i admire them. they're standing strong for what they believe in. we always talk about that's what america is for. that's what america should be for whether it is your side or the other side. i would tell those kids, keep on trucking. i'll disagree with you on a lot of stuff. maybe there is things we can find common sense solutions on. cpr doesn't seem to be an answer here. >> it seems that when you talk to democrats and republicans, there is so much disagreement about how do you tackle this. they're focused on what do you do before a school shooting to prevent it, right? what did you think about the senator's response? >> i guess i agree with doug, maybe not remarkable, but i wish there were more people who expressed -- more republicans expressed a viewpoints that doug was just saying, even if we disagree, there are areas we can find agreement, for example, background checks. there is 97% agreement on the public on background checks.
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and yet there is no movement in congress on that. making background checks universal. when rick santorum and makes a comment about cpr, it is laughable at best, but i don't even know if i should make this comparison, but i'll do it, because what would rick santorum -- what would someone say to rick santorum if he said why are you worried about abortion, that's something that would supposedly prevent something you don't want to happen, why not be concerned about it after the fact? i think he would respond to that, that makes no sense. and so if you're really concerned about preventing something, why not prevent it instead of trying to deal with the effects afterwards. and so i'm pro choice, by the way, i feel like if you're really concerned about gun violence, and if you're concerned about crime, if you're concerned about whatever issue it is, it is best to stop the issue in advance than try to deal with the effects after it happened. >> keith boykin, thank you so much. doug high, thank you to you as well. this morning, new legal questions beginning to emerge after stormy daniels breaks her
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silence. did the hush money paid to her by the president's personal lawyer violate campaign finance laws? the former general counsel at the fec weighs in next. [ doorbell rings ]
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>> did that make sense to you? if it did, it did, and if it didn't, it didn't. we have larry noble with us.
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you worked with trevor potter at the fec and you do now. he's your current colleague at the league center, former chairman at the fec. he's really not holding any punches there. do you believe that this $130,000 paid by michael cohen to stormy daniels is an in-kind contribution? >> it certainly looks that way. the timing, as he pointed out, right before the election. and she weren't talking about the contribution before the affair. >> they also said it's worse for cohen if the president has not repaid him. >> right. because if the president repaid him, what you have is cohen made a loan of $130,000. which is a contribution, but once it's repaid it mitigates it somewhat. if he's not paid it, that $130,000 is outstanding right now. >> on the flip side, if the president did pay michael cohen back, it confirms all these
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things, perhaps, that he says are not true, whether it's how involved he was, whether it's -- if you would be more apt to believe him or not on whether or not this affair happened. >> right. and he doesn't admit to having been part of that agreement. he never signed the agreement. he's denied an affair. so yes, it would really fall into question his credibility. >> so what's going to happen? there are complaints that have been made in relation to this against michael cohen. is there going to be any effect? >> there very well may be. common cause has filed a complaint to the election commission, and they should investigate this. whether they will or not is the question. they should investigate this. or the department of justice can investigate this. keep in mind, senator edwards years ago was similarly prosecuted by having someone basically provide money to a woman he was having an affair with. >> he was found not guilty.
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>> he was found not guilty in one count and i think five counts was a hung jury. >> he thinks this is a bigger deal than what john edwards faced because of the timing. >> right. in that case the money came in about a year before the election and the argument was the woman he had provided it to, bunny melon, had supported him for a long time and he provided money. here you have right before the election the money comes in, and it seems key to the election. even in edwards' case, they did federally prosecute him. >> robert mueller has requested documents and subpoenaed witnesses in his investigation. could stormy daniels fall in this msubpoena request?
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>> it could. he has a mandate he's following. the payment was to the trump organization and it went to the campaign. they didn't say trump did it or somebody else. >> larry, thank you so much. really appreciate it. coming up, more on the breaking news. the u.s. and american allies around the world expel dozens of russian diplomats on their borders. stay with us. (vo) make her day with just one touch. with fancy feast creamy delights, she can have just the right touch of real milk. easily digestible, it makes her favorite entrées even more delightful. fancy feast creamy delights. love is in the details. i've got a nice long life ahead.
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