tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN March 27, 2018 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. it's it's 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. live with new developments. two more lawyers turning down the chance to join the president's team and more and more star attorneys are saying thank you, but no thanks to the white house. but with all the challenges facing president trump, from the mueller investigation, to stormy
daniels. it couldn't be more important to have a legal team to handle all this. also tonight, blue collar voters back in the spotlight with the return of the 90 sit com rose anne. these are the have voters who felt they didn't have a voice until donald trump. i want to bring in lara coates. former u.s. attorney michael moore. good to have all of you on. thank you. zbliefrmgts lara we learn of the fifth major law firm refuseding to represent president trump in the russia investigation. what does that tell but the case or the client. >> well it tells you that a lot of the reputation of not only donald trump as being a difficult attorney perhaps or one that does not heed the advice of attorneys, combined with the unpredict ability of mueller's drag net it's combining to have a lot of different law firms in the area, washington, d.c. and other places saying he don't know the target. therefore we may have conflicts.
and also may not want to take on this particular endeavor because it requires us to have our single laroue focus outside of a more profitable practice. and also the cost bnefit analysis with the president of the united states doesn't bodie well for for anyone taking the case. >> mercurial? >> it's 11 bushman. i got out of bed with my dictionary process. mercurial is what i'm doing right now. >> i love the word. but never -- i never never thought of it to describe this particular president. but good on you. so listen, i want to play what the former watergate prosecutor and john dean said about the legal troubles. >> it's not the same as simply representing the leader of the free world when the people are referring to him behind his
back. he is famous for nick namgs. he is now known as spanky. . that's not good. >> there are probably some legitimate conflicts with firms in washington. but also another problem. that's the reputation the client has. he is difficult. doesn't follow the advice of his attorneys. and he also doesn't pay. i think that last item might be a dominant item. >> we discussed that last item last night here on this show in detail. but is the tawdry sex scandal and trump's bad reputation for paying bills making his case toxic for law firms? >> whenever you take on a client like that, don, you are -- you are taking on the reputation of that client. and i'll tell you if i represented donald trump i suspect there would be a lot of people out there that would be pretty upset about it. a lot of potential clients who would react negatively.
typically representing the president of the united states is a frustrate honor. i think it's general i been the feather in the cap of many attorneys in the past. i think what we see here is that the reputation of donald trump is such that a lot of lawyers would rather not represent him. and given the fact that he doesn't always pay legal fees, that is a very big problem. i will tell you that, you know, you are always a lawyer thinking about when you are bringing in a new client their ability to pay. and if a lawyer -- if a client stiffs his lawyers essentially the lawyer is putting himself in a position where you have essentially made a loan to somebody from your law firm's funds that are not getting repaid and ultimately your pay and salary -- bonus at the end of the year is going to be -- going to reflect that short fall. >> let's bring michael in. michael, some lawyers have said their firms have a conflict because they represent other people in the russia investigation. but that can't account for all the potential attorneys taking such a high-profile case, can
it. >> it doesn't tp and it's just a courteous way of saying no thank you to representing the president. you can say i have a conflict. it's hard for me to keep a straight face thinking about spanky at this point. i just -- i can't believe we talk about this. but. >> yes welcome to my world, michael. >> i get it. i'm with you. i mean, the deal is this. you need a lawyer to come in who can tell you the truth. you hire a lawyer that you get along with, a lawyer with a spirit of cooperation, you need to be to jihad with trump. he will fire you and yell at you and throw you under the bus. at the end of the day noib wants that person for a client. i mean, the client has to be be able to receive bad advice. he can't take that from anybody but maybe close members of family. my guess is it's not so much about conflicts or things out there that are maybe business decisions. folks don't want to get in the trump swamp and pulled in the mess that's going to happen if
in fact he tries to fire bob mueller. >> five minutes in the we've had jihad, mercurial and spanky. and the rest of the world also -- we're simulcast. rindt o, it's considered of an honor of a lifetime to represent the president. how reconcile president trump's claiming that many big time lawyers want to represent him with the reality that none are coming onboard. >> the way i reconcile it is that the president of the united states -- this particular president doesn't have a very close relationship with the truth. i mean, the fact of the matter is he is turned down left and right. that does say something about him. i'll tell you, don, lawyers as generately like to represent the rich appear powerful particularly the the of the united states. this creates a problem for him. i actually agree with whatever has said here. you want to have a lawyer who is going to tell you the tough news, sometimes there's a -- as a lawyer particularly in a
criminal defense side you have to sometimes bring your client around to things that are difficult truths that they have to face. hey, you know, you may be facing time in prison. hey, you might need to plead guilty. you may need to take the fifth. all the very difficult conversations at times you need to have with your client. if there isn't a good relationship with lawyer and client and the client doesn't have a lawyer that they can really trust, and that really knows what they're doing, that can hurt the client. in this case donald trump in the end. >> so laura, is the lack of a coherent legal team eventually going to impact the president in the investigation. dowd was with the lawyer with mueller's team. this is with a as a special sit-down is looming with the special counsel. >> of course it impacts it and probably negatively. you have to have a captain steering the ship and not just a skeleton krou you cuba none of
which a resounding career in the federal litigation. it's not one that has the skill set that's needed to go against mueller and 16 of the nation's top attorneys in an area that has extreme constitutional significance. but some of the onus or the blame has to fall on mueller 37 pause mueller is really thriving and the special council is tliefgt on the unpredict ability where he goes next, who he may or may not diet, who his investigation is covering, who is a target and who is a witness. if you have all of that uncertainty. if you are a white shoe law firm or attorney or part of the existing litigation team for trump you are trying to figure out, can my conflicts be resolved? will i be able to be represented by somebody advancing my interests or the other other thanes. mueller has a hand in creating the uncertainty really inuring to his benefit and harm trump in the long run. >> a lot of people were surprised when joe.
the former acting solicitor general suggested that mueller may have intervened. when he they see a defendant doing something profoundly dangerous to self-interests. including hiring lawyers with clvgts will raise it with the defendant and suggest rethinking it. is that a real possibility? >> you know, i think diligent prosecutors do look out sort of for the protection of the system and protecting the rights of the defendant or the person who is maybe the suspect or the subject of an investigation. it's hard to imagine in this case that mueller whose team got involved into the trump lawyer hiring decision and that process -- and i don't know that they would have necessarily wanted to tip their hand either about potential conflicts that might be out there or the people that they're looking at. so i really don't think that's
the case. i don't want to question, you know, his sound legal judgment on that. but i don't know that that's necessarily the case. i think it's more clf you have the attorney as had his wife making a business decision at the end of the day. we know she had one conflict out there but conflicts can be waived. my guess is they made a business decision they didn't want to take the time away from the practice or become so totally bogged down in this. and that's what you expect. as far as the lawyer goes, trump could hire clarence darrow and if he couldn't get ahold of donald trump if he can't talk his client into keeps his mouth shut and doing things damaging his case it doesn't matter who he gets at the end of the day. >> maybe he needs a -- a slick talking southern attorney named michael moore would you take the job? >> i had the great pleasure to be able to be able to declines clients and representation in my
time. and that's a luxury i enjoyed and still enjoy that luxury. i'm not so sure i'd want to be involved in this case either. >> you make me miss home, la. decline some clients in my time. i love it. thank you all. >> thank you good to see you don. >> good to see you. when we come back, will women make or break the republican party in the mid-terms? mark mckinnon will break it all down for us next. rd of a pre-pubescent squire! thy armor was forged by a feeble-fingered peasant woman... your mom! as long as hecklers love to heckle, you can count on geico saving folks money. boring! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. this one's below market price and has bluetooth. same here, but this one has leather seats!
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sight, inside the white house. no public events on his schedule again tomorrow. and if holds true it will be the fifth day in a row -- i want to bring in mark mckinnon, the executive producer of showtime's the circus, a former distinguishes to with george w. bush and john mcmahon mccain. trump is facing serious legal action from three women, the mueller investigation and a pending meeting with north korean leader, kim jong un. staff shakeups and chaos at the white house. the approval rating at 42%. up from 35% last month. why do you think he is gaining ground amid all the controversy? >> yeah, well there is good news and bad news for donald trump. the bad news is that he has had last week arguably one of the most chaotics weeks in the presidency. every week has been some measure of chaos. but last week when we had stormy daniels on television and the firing of some top staff in the
administration, all of that was weighing -- soaking up a lot of media time which ob secures a lot of good news happening underneath which is the highest wage growth in eight years ppt highest consumer confidence in almost 18. isis in retreat. and now today we learn that the north koreans are actually talking to the chinese about denuclearization. the most -- the most prominent issues for american voters on the economy and the rat greatest worries internationally are being addressed in a pretty forceful way. and i think that's why we have seen actually that donald trump is rebounding a bit with backup had. because on all the things people care about some good things happening. >> and we talked about this -- about republicans house members maybe in the mid-terms. if you are a republican house member who may have been freaking out a little bit after the special election in pennsylvania, do you feel a little bit better now, mark. >> a little bit better. but you have representatives
like costello who announced hess resignation and said part of the reason was that it was so hard right now to get out the positive messages that were being obscured. he said if i went to a townhall meeting this week everybody would be asking about stormy daniels. and yet i think there are a lot of republicans -- by the way, paul ryan was just learned today is likely going to be retiring. that's not a good sign. and yet i think that if i were an incumbent member of congress right now after this last week seeing the numbers today, seeing the president rebound and seeing the -- and seeing the talks with -- pending talks with north korea, i'd be feeling a lot better frankly. a whole lot better. i suspect that if these numbers continue and the confidence maintains on the economic side, and the talks actually happen with north korea, that's a lot of good news that's happening. we could say that the worst news for republicans was really in the last couple of months. and that it's likely to get
better. >> you mentioned paul ryan. and i have to tell you by the way he denied that rumor. do you know something we don't. >> it's a gut instinct for me, don. and i -- there is a few things that i know i can't talk about. but i will say that just knowing what i know about paul ryan -- he has achieved his signature life ambition which was the tax reform bill. and i just don't know that -- you know that his fires are burning as hot as they used to now that's done. >> if there is a place for a jack kemp type republican in this new era of the republican party. >> yeah, exactly right. he has the tax bill done but then turned around and had a -- had a budget bill that, you know, is over -- now going to have a trillion dollar deficit ongoing. that's tough for a kemp republican. tough for me. >> your gut tells you retiring?
>> that's just my get. that's my gut. >> okay. >> and a couple of little birdies. >> usually you're right process. that's not cnn reporting but mark mckinnon you know the score high pressure let's break it down even more. trump's approval numbers among women, mark, just 34% hop how big a factor will this vote be particularly in the suburbs where republicans feel vulnerable. >> the thing about mid-terms particularly is that what happens is largely a result of enthusiasm. and the party that is most enthusiastic right now are the democrats. democrats are highly motivated, highly agitated. highly exacerbated over the women issue. and some of the things that we have seen in the last couple of weeks, which only reinforced the worst they saw, which was of course the "access hollywood" tape. so, you know, i think democratic women particularly, suburban
republican women, the problem with suburban republican women is that they may just not vote. they may get tired of this, tired of defending it and not going to be as animated to get out going to the police. >> so the votes will be suppressed. again, let me ask you this. >> yeah. >> you made me think about that when you said that democrats are more animated, more energetic when it comes to voting right now. what do you think all the young people who were marching this weekend have in some of them are 18 now. some will be close to 18. some can vote in 8, some in 20. how much of an effect do you think they'll have the in the two elections coming. >> i think potentially a lot. i think the -- the -- the energy we saw last week and the energy that we've been seeing among millennials is very, very powerful. and it's that kind of heat that will make a big difference particularly in the mid-terms.
i mean, that's generally when it falls off. and if younger voters turn out in mid-terms that's going to be a big, big deal. because they normally don't. and every sign we see is that they're activated and energized, along with other demographic groups that generally are good for democrats, you know, that's why people think -- that's why they're concerned -- republicans are concerned about pennsylvania and other signs we see like this. >> i wonder if some -- some folks -- not all but some people on the far right attacking the kids if that's just going to energize them even more. >> oh, i have no yes about it. i mean, yeah wsh i mean that's just poking a tiger with a stick in the eye. and the tiger is going to bite back. >> mark mckinnon. thank you, showtime's "the circus". >> coming back soon. >> to a tv near you. and a phone. >> thanks, don.
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, the iconic tv sitcom is back. and the reboot is set right now in the trump era. take a look. >> how could you have voted for him, roseanne. >> he talked about jobs, jackie. he said he would sick shake things up. but this might come as a complete shock. but we almost lost our news. >> have you looked at the news now things are worse. >> please. >> joining me is seleena zito. and joe anne. a contributor to politico magazine. good evening to both of you. hey, seleena sfla hey. >> president trump won the election because he appealed to and spoke directly to americans a lot like roseanne and her family. they felt no one listened to them. what do you think about the return of the show? >> well, i think it is a great
moment. and here is why. some -- some -- i've been writing this and talked about this on your show before, that there is a cultural disconnect between hollywood and a lot of america. a lot of people are portrayed on television that are in main street america, usually the butt of a joke as opposed to more sympathetic or empathetic. i think she did an incredibly good job of showing you know the struggles that the family is having. she has always been very in touch with that. but also that the struggles they have with their points of view. the family wasn't a cookie cutter but very similar to what i see on the campaign trailer when i'm out reporting, that people may support trump but they dent fit the mold of who you think their entire family is. >> all right. joe anna you have a piece out in politic of. >> yes. >> called how the trump nirnsed the roseanne reboot.
talk to me about what's behind it. >> sure i talked for a politico magazine piece to one of the producer of the show. that who told me one of the intentions they had was to start a conversation and have a conversation that a lot of american families aren't having. families are divided. we have gone to the separate facebook feeds and unfriended people. go to family gatherings. and sometimes politics a toxic topic and people don't discuss it. what they wanted to do was use the connors as a proxy family for a lot of americans and get a lot of the issues out in the open and have a dialogue and exchange about them today. >> yeah, so tello seleena patrick healy from "the new york times" has an interview with roseanne bar. and he says it was it your idea to your roseanne to back trump. >> yes because it's accurate portrayal of these people and how they think and feel when they are the ones sending their kids over to fight. we have been in wars for a long, long time which everybody seems
to forget but working class people don't forget it because the kids -- their kids are in it. i imagine this rings true to you. it sounds like what you have heard on the campaign. >> yeah, their tends to be a disprorpgs knit amount that go to the military. and they're at the front lines. and they are -- they tend to be a little more dsh show the patriotism than other people. and it is important to them. and so they don't see their lives portrayed positively in -- in a lot of hollywood and in a lot of television shows. i think this intersection of politics and culture is really important. and because i think it helps to start heal the disconnect that people have and resentment they have towards hollywood because they think that hollywood doesn't get them or understand them. doesn't understand what their problems and their needs are.
and i say a lot of those types of families and not just working class, upper middle class, you know, single family, where they do have these different opinions. and they do have robust conversations about politics. and it's much different than twitter and much more hue mane and it's much more interesting and so -- and they portray that really well tonight ob her show. >> why are you nodding your head. >> i'm nodding because i agree. and the issues that they teal with -- yes, there are family members for the connors in the military. they also deal with issues like gender aidty. they deal with high-ductable health plans, the opioid crisis, in the context of just normal everyday family life here is a family confronting the issues, wrestling with them not retreating to different sides but having the exchange and back and forth about them. again, i think americans can identified -- americans in the
white working class but also americans of all other -- all different backgrounds can relate on a lot of levels. en and a show like this has the opportunity to make connections >> and seleena said that middle class working class folks. and in that minorities as well. disproportionately tend to go to war, serve in the military more than others. listen -- i want to talk about. this is from matt lewis wrote a piece for the daily caillier talking about roseanne giving us donald trump. says if the cosby show paved the way or for barack obama's election then it might be said the show roseanne was a harbinger for trump's candidacy. the cosby show was about an affluent black fireman. to tv shows like these give americans a glimpse of other people's lives or give people a voice. >> i think they do. and seeing that representation of yourself on television is
meaningful. you know, whether you are a minority and now you have a show like blackish or off the boat that you can feel like you identify with. if you're in the white working class, hollywood is generally disconnected from the white working class. there are a handful of shows on television right now that feature them. but for the most part a lot of tv is aspirational. a lot of tv be- a lot of people middle class on tv if you notice live in-houses that look a little bit more like buckingham palace. rose and's family lives that house that looks like a real house, someone has to pay the bills. has a job painting droi wall or working at a cafe might live in process. and i think seeing that feels validating. >> listen, before roseanne there was archie bunk we are, a working class icon. but also bigot. let's watch a clip and all talk. >> american history lesson you don't know nothing about lady
liberty standing in the harbor with the torch on high scream out to all the nations in the world send me for poor your dead beats your filthy and all the nations sent them in there. come swarming in like ants. >> the creator of the show wanted to show a man struggling with change but also clinging to racist ideas. do you think -- you know, i asked this -- this question to norman leer. do you think archie bunker would be a trump supporter? >> may -- i don't know. maybe. he- it he can also be a bernie supporter. >> right. >> i could see him on both sides. he was really -- he was really proud working class democrat if i remember correctly. i grau up watching the show. and remember being just sort of astounded that they said the word menopause on television as a kid beyond the other things they said. >> they said a lot of things they can't say -- they said the
n word. >> yes. >> when jefferson would say it. >> yes. >> there is no way to get away with it. i find it interesting. i've been listening to interview was roseanne one in particular great today on howard stern. roseanne who is seen as a divisive figure is now telling peopling hey, we should talk we should sit down, nothing gets accomplished unless we sit down and discuss it. which i think is a very interesting transition for her. a great change in my opinion. when he we come back the nra admitting they accept money fl foreign doaners. let oaf people worried about that. we will tell you what we know about where the is coming from and how they're using it. how'd i get this yard? behind pete's great looking yard, is his secret weapon... the scotts turf builder program.
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the nra is defending its practice of accepting donations from foreign donors. and claiming that none of the money was used during the 2006 election. cnn politic willing correspondent sara murray here with more. sarah hello to you. the nra admitting they take foreign money. where is the money coming from and why are we just finding out a lot about. >> they're not providing a lot of details. but in a letter to senator ron
widen any say yes a organization we accept foreign donations. but the nra insists none of the foreign money was used in american elections. of course we know that the nra did spend big in 2016. spent more than $30 million on efforts to boost donald trump and just to give you a sense how that spending compares to past cycles. according to the center for responsive politics this is more than 2008 and 2012 combined we you look across presidential house and senate races. it's clear that they were in big and in early for donald trump. but what they're saying is, look, none of that money we spent none of it came from foreign donors. >> is anyone talking about trying to regulate where they can accept money from? >> well there are already regulations about how the nra cuss otto foreign donations. they're allowed to use them essentially to inform members, educate members. but they're not allowed to use them for instance on ads that say vote for donald trump ob don't vote for hillary clinton. now we have ron widen a democrat from oregon saying i want more information on exactly where
this foreign money is coming from. exactly what you are spend going on. it's pretty clear the senator doesn't necessarily believe that there was no way that any of this money from foreign donors didn't influence american audiences in some which. he sent a follow-up letter to the nra pressing for more information to try to get to the bottom of that. now the nra in the letter they put oit is insistent. i said to read you a part of what their general counsel wrote saying our review of records found no foreign donations in kweks the united states election either directly or through conduit. it's clear ron widen like more information. >> i understand there are question base the relationship between a prominent russian banker and the nra what can you tell bus that. >> a lot of the scrutiny around this election cycle centered around a prominent russian banker. he has close ties to put. en a he has fostered close relationship was the top leaders of the nra.
there was one report in mcclachy stayed the fbi is investigating whether money was funneled illegally through the nra appear through this banker to boost donald trump's campaign. the nra hasn't heard from the anybody they say. but there are a number of reports working on behalf of banker to try to make inroads with president trump and team in 2016. all of this has raised red flas flags and drawn scrutiny to the nra and how they raise money. and why they spent so much money extraordinarily to back trump in 2016. >> sara murray. thank you. >> thank you. let's discuss now the nra's practice of accepting foreign donations. cnn politic commentator angela rooi and ben ferguson both here. thank you for joining us. >> angela, you first what is your read on it is it appropriate for the nra to accept foreign contributions. >> i think the nra, period, is inappropriate. i don't have anything specific on foreign donations except to
say that the 2016 -- 2016 election was certainly a very tangled web that continues to spiral out of control backup there is some new pieces of information we learn every day about which trump's campaign manager knew his deputy campaign manager knew relative to all of the things they've done with russia. now of course the nra potentially accepting foreign donations that from a search of their own records they don't know where the -- they don't have any proof the money was used in the elections. but i would be interested to see what someone else's investigations discovered. >> do you think that that practice will invite the misuse of funds -- i mean if they don't take foreign money they don't have to worry about the funds being used illegally. >> i don't. and i think the nra is pretty smart about this, separating the funds. the same way that planned parenthood for example is not allowed to use funds that come from the american taxpayers for abortions. they separate it. so that there is a clear separation line here when you know you're under scrutiny from
people that don't like you. it's not illegal for the nra to take foreign funds. many non-profits and many groups that have activism ideas like this on others on the conservative and liberal side for decades have been taking foreign funds from people that support what they're about and what they're backing. i don't think there is going to be an issue here. i think certainly people want to play politics with this. but i think the nra knows that they're under a microscope and have been for years. and they've never had problems with this in the past. >> so -- but the critics on the right say the money always can't be separate when it comes to planned parenthood and apportions. . that's the criticism from those on the right. but you're saying now. >> not really it's not. >> it's not the criticism. the criticism is that you're taking my taxpayer's dollars and you're giving them to an organization that is the number one abortion provider in the u.s. they get more ahe agrees boss thn anybody else with my tax dlaers. >> you're saying the money can is separated you just said in
one breath the money can be separated when it comes to the nra foreign entities. >> again. >> if people are paying tax money and saying the tax dollars will not go towards abortions. >> don there is a fundamental difference between planned parenthood and the nra. the nra does not receive taxpayers dollars. if they did many people like angela would be very upset with that. that is why i'm ultimates. >> first of all. >> with planned parent hood receiving funds. my point was this. there are guidelines that go in that make it clear that you can't have taxpayers dollars when it goes in hundreds of millions of dollars a year go to planned parenthood. that monte can't be used for abortion services. >> let angela. >> >> if can. >> the nra can't use the money going in the other direction with i can't mr.le complaints. >> ben i i know you have the floor but i don't need to you to speak in what i deem appropriate. >> i don't think it was crazy to
say you want want your tax dollars going to the nra. >> let per sfwleek imi'm not done. i think this ridiculous this segment is about the nra. this segment is about them taking foreign donations. this seeing segment is about the second amendment and somehow, ben you have spun yourself into talking about planned parenthood. it's ridiculous. >> it's of an example of funds being being operated. >> i know about. >> and you started the segment with ripping and donald trump and the russians. >> i'm talking over you then. you're example took longer than the initial point. >> it's pretty normal. >> that's cool. let me tell you that i don't have time for it. let me tell you way. because today while y'all are talking about the second amendment and all of this yet again, a black man's killers vis-a-vis the police are not going to be held accountable for taking his life. you know why? he had a gun on him. a gun that he never brandished but somehow the second amendment -- i'm just going to make a point about guns today
because you did it about planned parenthood. the point is that the second amendment doesn't even apply to black lives. the second amendment doesn't apply to alten sterling. >> sure it does. >> no it doesn't. >> sure it does. >> while we talk about the nra who it's here to protect. i want to know who the second amendment protects because it doesn't protect people like me. >> you have the right to bear arms. >> gun revenues and gun money over the lives of black and brown people. >> it's a great talking but. >> these aren't talking points. this is coming stating from my heart out of my mouth. >> no it is not. >> i got to get to the break. we had planned to talk about alten sterling after the break. but we -- and we will that and more. we'll be right back. mine's way better.
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back now with cnn political commentators angela rye and ben ferguson. angela, i think it's important to discuss, especially being a baton rouge native. the state of louisiana declining to bring charges against the two officers involved in the shooting death of alton sterling. sterling's aunt spoke out about the verdict. >> i saw what they did to my nephew and i'll be damned, i'll be damned. why aren't these people -- why are we still paying their salary? i don't get it. i don't understand. baton rouge, stand up. no justice, no peace! no justice, no peace! >> i know how you feel about your outrage, you made that plain, but are you surprised? >> i'm not surprised. and i think to be living in 2018, don, and there's no repercussions whatsoever for
black women, black men, to be kill the at the hands of police, is maddening. to understand that we live in a country where black folks' first interaction with law enforcement was fugitive slaves, runaway slaves being hunted down and returned to their masters, to plantations where they were killed or beaten or worse. i just am frustrated that i don't have anything to tell my five godsons and one goddaughter except, you have to protect your life, you have to be careful, you have to be abundantly cautious. and it's just not right. i don't care what anybody says, the fact that even we were just talking about the nra, the fact that there are some lives they protect, some people they go hard in the paint for, others they turn a blind eye to. i am tired of the hypocrisy in this country and i'm eager for us to see real justice and real results. it's high time, it's overdue, and i'm sick of it. >> ben, she's saying basically
the nra wants to protect some people when it comes to gun rights but doesn't do it for all. doesn't speak for all folks. >> yeah, i don't know what it has to do with this shooting in baton rouge. what i do know is the police officers try to use different commands with him, they tried to use a taser, not once but twice, they told him to quit resisting arrest, he had a gun in his pocket, they saw that gun when he was reaching for it, and after using nonlethal force, they used lethal force. drugs were found in his system which they say contributed probably to his noncompliance -- >> you are out of your cam mind, i cannot believe. that's exactly what the report says, that's what it says on cnn.com right now. >> let me tell you -- >> how am i out of your mind for stating facts? >> this is the only country, the only place in the world where someone will get killed and we talk about what's in their system. >> did he have a gun? >> you know what, he absolutely had a gun in his pocket, but you
know what -- >> did he comply with police? >> it's probably real hard to reach for a gun when you're in a head lock. >> did he have drugs in his system? >> have you ever tried to reach in your pocket when you've been this a head lock? >> you don't negotiate with police when you have a gun in your pocket. >> you know who got to walk out of a situation where he killed nine black parishioners? dylann roof, got a trip to burger king. >> that has nothing to do with baton rouge. >> it's the inability for this country to apply justice fairly. it does not work for black and brown people. why? we're deemed inherently -- >> and i'm out of my damn mind? >> yes, you are, because he did not pull out the weapon. >> he had a gun and fought police -- >> no, no, the reason -- >> he should be able to do that? fight police with a gun in his pocket? >> no, what i'm telling you, he was not fighting police. >> wow. >> what i'm telling you is he
was fighting for his life. >> he was fighting the police. >> if you don't understand that, i don't know what else -- >> he was absolutely fighting the police. >> you know what's unfortunate, you probably believe everything you've ever seen. i bet you believed everything you ever heard about laquan mcdonald -- >> i have no idea what you're talking about. i do know an individual with a gun his pocket, drugs in his system -- >> ben, do you have something against people carrying guns? >> i have a problem with anyone who fights police while being armed and doesn't -- >> he wasn't fighting. >> doesn't listen to the police while they're daysing him and using nonlethal force. you don't get to negotiate with the police when you have a gun in your pocket and you're fighting them and resisting arrest while they're tasing you. >> i'm out of time. >> also a recipe for disaster when you have drugs in your system when you're being tased and it has no effect on you. >> you're sick.
>> i'm sick because i think that police -- >> out of time, guys. someone's dead and rest in peace and my thoughts and prayers are with his family this evening. thank you both for coming on, good night. ♪ at&t gives you more for your thing. your snapping pics all day, all night thing. your getting the low-light, just right thing. ♪
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