tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN April 20, 2018 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
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now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. just a little bit past 11:00 here on the east coast live with it breaking news for you. we're learning recently said he might be forced to leave if president trump fires rod rosenstein. and we have some breaking news tonight that could impact the historic meeting between president trump and kim jong-un. pyongyang announcing a freeze on nuclear tests. a source telling cnn kim jong-un wants to open up north korea and normalize relations with other countries. but it's important to note the north korean leader didn't say
anything about giving up nukes. i want to bring in now a man that wants to talk about all of this and much, much more. a former advisor to george w. bush and john mccain. >> we were worried that that was over the top when david nevens at show time first proposed the show. >> let's talk about jeff sessions, the attorney general. "the washington post" is reporting that he told the white house that if the white house fires or the president fires rod rosenstein he may go, too. what do you think? it's a chess move. >> i think it's a significant development. for sessions for him to make a proactive call just suggests that he feels very strongly about it and that he was worried it was going to happen. and i think he has an attorney general knows how the domino
falls if that happens. >> were you surprised? >> yeah, kind of. i was surprised. and i also think it gibes us a sense maybe sessions is more confident and secure than he thinks he is -- that we thought he was. >> north korea now. as crow know we're reporting that pyongyang is saying they no longer need nuclear and milsssi tests. >> big damn deal. i mean this could be his nixon to china. >> but they're not saying they want to give up nukes. >> we'll see. they're talking and there's progress, and that's a lot more we've had in a long time. i'm for it. >> do you think this is going to happen? you're encouraged by it. do you think this actual summit is going to happen in. >> there's just going to be so much momentum now that i think it's going to happen. it's very hard to walk away diplomatically. >> tell me, what is the move i guess to the get to the table or some sort of negotiations, is it
just him and kim sitting there -- >> when you actually think about it, it's funny from a historical perspective we say this hasn't happened and that hasn't happened, but it's still north korea. even though they have nukes, this is situation where he's going to meet with the president of the united states, the leader of the free world. this is big deal for the ruler of north korea to be meeting with the president of the united states. so for him it's a big deal. and i think in an odd way, in an unconventional way that's the way he likes it. maybe that's the reason it's happening, trump's sort of chaos theory has worked with north korea, the threats. >> has you been sitting back watching comey, his tour, the publicity tour? >> the title of our show this week is "too many lawyer." and so what we wanted to do is take a really deep dive and also pull back the lens because people have heard so much and there's so many stories happening so fast i think people are incredibly confused.
>> i know you have a list, too. but let's talk about this. how did you handle the memos? because republicans pushed hard for these memos to come out, and the general consensus from the public is why are they pushing these memos to come out? it doesn't paint the president in such a good light. i don't know it shows any collusion or any sort of conspiracy or obstruction. >> i think it helps the president with the memos in a way. it shows in the memos, for example, that trump was pushing him to investigate the salacious details of the russia thing. so it's a component of the russia thing, but it is a russian thing. you think if he were worried he wouldn't be worried about the russia investigation at all. >> i don't know if he wanted -- i think he just wanted to say, look, this is not true because if my wife believes even -- >> the thing i feel doing the
deep dive the trajectory of the mueller thing has gone this way and the trajectory of the cohen thing has gone this way. >> you think the book paints the president in a good light? >> well, i think there's some stuff in the memo, but also the book. the thing that struck me actually hard news has come out. i just expected more news from it, and it's more kind of gossip and, you know, psychoanalyzing the president. but the one bit of news that came out that surprised me, and i'm going to try to characterize this somewhat accurately is comey from his own personal observations with the president and his dealings said he didn't believe there's been obstruction in the case. but that kind of surprised me that he would say that or even felt that way. >> i think what he said was when i was there i didn't see any evidence of that, but i'm not -- so far i'm not -- >> given the interactions that
happened with the president and loyalty pledge and all of that, i would have thought he would have said, yeah, i think he's obstructing justice. >> i think what's interesting about the memos it shows at least comey was consistent, but it also showed he had said everything in the tour already. >> and the book. and his house testimony as well. so there wasn't a lot of new news in it, really. >> do you think the white house is now going we weathered that storm or -- >> sort of the sense of the body language i went to mar-a-lago and saw him there. and of course he was anxious about north korea as he should be, and of course the press asked about the mueller investigation. and this was -- just look at his body language at mar-a-lago this week he seemed more comfortable and less concerned about it. and i think that's kind of the advice he's getting obviously from his attorney general. >> he said they're still there.
that would have been big news. >> just the body language just didn't seem as aggressive about that whole idea. so my sense is he's a little dialled down on that but dialled up on cohen. >> stormy daniels, it's moving full steam now. it's in california this week. and the judlawyer asked the jud to put it on hold. >> one of the things we did is we got inside the bubble with michael avenatti when we had to big court scene here in new york. john was with him all day. with him in the car, writing his briefs. and we kind of shadowed him the whole day. >> let's listen to him and we'll talk. >> so we're in the car headed to downtown new york to go to the michael cohen hearing. your client is in court today for what purpose? >> she feels very strongly about
the way that michael cohen and the president treated her. she wants to send the right message to the people that have supported her over the last five or six weeks. but she is, you know, in this for the right reasons. >> you guys have played this in the media with great skill -- >> no, we haven't played this game. we've played the game. >> wow. >> the game. >> tell me about this emsode pi and what happens after that. >> we follow the ark through the week with avenatti and all the big time lawyers like dershowitz and digenova. and i got to talk to sally yates which was really interesting for me because we haven't seen much of sally yates publicly, and she's an interesting character. for me it was even more fun because i actually know her because i ran her husband's campaign for congress in 1994 and i hadn't seen her since
then. so it was kind of a reunion, too. >> that's a small world. >> super small. sally yates, the attorney general was the same person i met in the campaign eating popsicles with her kids. >> don't you find avenatti a fascinating character? is he beating trump at his own game? >> he is a titanic match for the president, and he is right out of central casting. he's super creative. i mean he like trump knows how to get the media's attention over and over again. and he has -- well, the other thing is not only has he been creative strategically as we know with monica lewinsky and other cases like this, sometimes it's not where the investigation starts but could be some minor thing like an illegal campaign contribution that ends up being the real problem that ends upturning the tide that ends up
being the problem. >> that's what he's sort of predicting as well. show time the circus sunday night 8:00. thank you, sir. always a pleasure. when we come back more news on stormy daniels. what her original attorney is telling investigators. ♪ better than all the rest ♪ applebee's new bigger bolder grill combos. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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cohen want the case delayed in california. sarah? >> reporter: don, judge james otarot held a no nonsense hearing in federal court questioning cohen's attorneys. michael cohen's attorneys have asked for a 90-day hold on the case because they are concerned if he has to testify in the civil case against him it could hurt him in the criminal case. tonight stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti arguing in u.s. district court that his client's case should be allowed to proceed even as one defendant, president trump's attorney michael cohen is under criminal investigation. >> it's apparent to us that the court recognized to quote the court, that there are gaping holes in the application by mr. cohen and mr. trump to delay this matter. >> reporter: the lawyer for cohen says daniels' case should be delayed arguing whatever
cohen says in the daniels proceedings could be used against him in the criminal investigation. judge james otaro telling cohen's attorney cohen needs to file his own declaration about his concern his fifth amendment rights could be compromised. >> will you file to protect his fifth amendment? >> we're not commenting. >> reporter: cohen's attorney did not make any comments to the press but agreed to file the declaration. >> i don't think this could be overstated. we're talking about the personal counsel to the president of the united states who presumably knows where a lot of bodies are buried and it has come to point in time where it appears that he will plead the fifth amendment against self-incrimination. i think that is staggering turn of events. >> reporter: fbi agents raided cohen's home, hotel room and office last week. the search warrants specifically mentioned cohen's 2016 payment with daniels according to cohen's attorney.
and sources say the fbi is also looking for an agreement between explaymate karen mcdougal and american media ink which prevented her from discussing her alleged affair with president trump. and as for stormy daniels -- daniels and avenatti say the agreement should be nullified because trump never signed the document. the judge also questioned stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti who has said his client is still being threatened for fec speaking about donald trump. the judge saying it doesn't seem like the threats has affected her very much. she's already spoken to 60 minutes and she was recently on the view. we asked donald trump's attorney if he had any comment and he said he did not. don. >> sarah, thank you very much.
i want to bring in mark geragos and areva martin. you know the particulars of what happened today. who won? >> actually you have to give cohen credit to this extent. he didn't lose -- when the judge tells you there's gaping holes and i expected that from judge otaro, that doesn't give you a lot of comfort but they live to fight another day. almost as if the judge here in the southern district had said bring michael cohen in here. it's the same thing. lawyers can't just go in there and say by the way, judge, i've got to represent to you a, b, c and d. you've got to have the client. they live to fight another day is the best way to put it. >> areva, what do you think? >> i think michael cohen went away feeling victorious as he should.
this was an effort -- i'm sorry -- stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti went away feeling victorious because michael cohen has been trying to delay this case for 90 days and he didn't get what he requested from the court. and now he's got to sign the declaration saying he believes if he makes any statement in this case he could incriminate himself. basically as trump has always said if you take the fifth amendment, you're probably guilty of something. >> legally you cannot just say that i'm going to take the fifth. you have to actually do it. you have to do it in some proceeding and with a declaration. crow just can't assert it. and so that's what they were trying to do. that doesn't work. it's the same reason you can't just say there's attorney-client in there. you have to do things. i mean this is not -- i know we're on tv talking about it but it's almost as if somebody is
watching some bad law and order episode. >> it is, thank you. >> the caliber of lawyering never ceases to amaze me in this. >> but you know why, mark. no one wants to file a public declaration saying if they make a statement in a federal case they could be subject to criminal prosecution. >> areva, there was a moment today apparently as has been reported where the lawyer for cohen said i think in response to a judge's question about being under criminal investigation or being imminently subject to an indictment said, well, according to mr. ovnaughty. i mean that's never going to play. >> okay, let's get back on track here and quick answers if you can. because you were saying michael cohen is under a criminal investigation, still entangled in a suit involving stormy daniels. you said the two can -- >> absolutely have something to do with each other.
which is why i was saying before why he filed this lawsuit is beyond me. it's never going to end well. when the fbi comes in and executes a search warrant, when you've been cooperating if that was a client of mine i would be telling you it's 11:59 at midnight you're going to get indicted. >> here's a tweet from stormy daniels' attorney today. always a bad sign when a judge tells you that your motion has gaping holes in it. time to come clean and let the chips fall where they may and used the hashtag basta. >> the judge also acknowledged the high bar hat had to be met in order for this magistrate judge to issue the search warrant. even the civil court judge is probably acknowledging there's probably going to be an indictment of michael cohen, and
the judge said maybe we'll let the deposition go forward. so not looking good for michael cohen who does not want to be subjected to any discovery. this judge is not only considering not delaying the civil case but perhaps giving stormy daniels' attorney what he wants, which is the opportunity to take the deposition, have michael cohen under oath answering questions. >> well, you never want to be the one who files a case and you move it to federal court and you say judge, okay, now i want a time out. federal judges are not inclined to do that. it's a simple procedural problem. >> you know michael cohen is loyal. that's his defining characteristic. this is what the "the new york times" is reporting, the president has a habit of treating cohen poorly. is president trump taking his loyalty for granted, especially given the severity of this case with the charges he could face? >> i think rudy guiliani if he should do one thing as the lawyer now involved is to explain to him that his famous
last words when someone says i'll take a bullet from him. i can't tell you how many times i've heard that from clients and the next thing they're telling me is to run into the u.s. attorney's office and cooperate. >> it's hard to really characterize the amount of pressure michael cohen is under, being squeezed by the feds, a raid of his office, a raid of his house and now a civil court judge saying i may not delay your case, i may allow the party to depose you. >> "the washington post" reporting areva the former attorney general -- the former attorney for stormy daniels and cairn mcdougal keith davidson has been contacted. "the post" says davidson is cooperating with authorities. what's this tell you about the scope of the investigation? >> it tells us this investigation has a lot to do with those two hush agreements, which is what we've been talking about for several weeks now if not more than a month. the feds want to know what
happened with respect to this $130,000 agreement. and davidson negotiated the agreement with michael cohen. so he has information about the negotiation process. he has information about what led to this agreement, and he could be potentially a very good witness for the prosecutors, and this could mean more trouble for michael cohen. >> he's also going to testify, at least if you believe the reports and knowing keith he never consented to the taping. >> okay, i have to go. but quickly if michael cohen is watching now what would you say he should do? >> i'd say michael cohen, tell your lawyers to dismiss this case. get the heck out of dodge in the central district. you don't need this, and it's only a matter of time before you need to cooperate. so i'd get your ducks in a row. >> wow, okay. >> well rosh we know he dismissed the other case against the media company involving the dossier. so he's dismissing civil cases left and right. i agree with you, mark, 100% it's time to cut his losses.
thank you, both. i appreciate it. when we come back sources telling cnn the president's new advisers are reporting directly to trump and bypassing chief of staff. is john kelly's job in jeopardy? how do you win at business? stay at laquinta. where we're changing with contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com.
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president trump may be doing an end run around his chief of staff john kelly. sources telling cnn two of the president's new hires are reporting directly to trump. here to discuss the author of the "gate keepers, how the white house chiefs of staff define the presidency." douglas, the newly installed national security advisor john bolton and kudlow. and here's what cnn is reporting, both men are reporting directly to the president bypassing chief of staff john kelly. how unusual is that? >> it's very unusual, but donald trump really believes all this deep state idea that everyone is out to get him in the federal government. so you have a president who
doesn't trust any of the bureaucrats and feels they're leakers and stooges and enemies surrounding him and lurking in the white house. hence the fresh meat like kudlow and bolton come in and he's going to try to establish a one-on-one relationship. i think general kelly, the fact it's been reiterated this week when comey got fired kelly was very sympathetic to comey probably has unnerved president trump some also. >> you said the lone rangers, right, is that what you said, kudlow? because he seems to be carving out a more public role than his predecessor gary cohn. do you think that's a risky gamble in this administration? >> yes, it's a very risky gamble. bolt n is seen as kind of a rogue thinker. he's beloved by the hard right,
fox news. he worships him because of his hawkish rhetoric neocon announcements. but bolton is going to become a wh whisperer to fruchl. anyone in trump's orbit gets thrown out or doesn't have a long survival mechanism in place. >> this is what you're book is about, how important chief of staffs are. what do you make of this? >> there's no question kelly has been really undercut. he's been an empty barrel to use his phrase. i've been saying for a hard time he's failed to speak hard truths to donald trump. trump has marginalized him now. as doug says it may be partly his paranoia but also this sense he can run it the same way he
ran trump tower. >> chris, weave seen less and less of john kelly. we've seen more of these reports that he's threatened to quit. why do you think he stays on? >> i think -- i mean, my sense of john kelly he's a marine. he's a stubborn marine. he's duty, honor country. i think he's probably unlikely to quit unless trump makes his life completely hellish. and i think trump may be unlikely to fire him if he thinks he can just bypass kelly and govern as i say without a white house chief of staff. the only thing worse than a white house with a flawed chief of staff is a white house with no chief of staff. i mean history shows jerry ford tried it and lasted a month, jimmy carter tried it. two and a half years later he realized his mistake. it was too late for carter. he was famous sly a guy who even
made ivanka go through him. how did he get marginalized? >> he was the hope for the administration. he's stop the chaos in the white house. it jus didn't happen. i think general kelly is staying in right now because he feels it's a pay triotic duty, that somebody has to be there minding the entrance to the oval office. and he may be a survivor by staying quiet, but not challenging president trump. if trump gets into trouble with michael cohen or with the russia investigation, he may be the transitional figure for a president pence down the line, someone who can give our country a smoother continuity if trump implodes on us. so he's still a very important figure, but he's obviously kind of -- any day now if he quit you wouldn't be surprised. and then of course tonight we heard jeff sessions saying if
you get rid of rod rosenstein i'm gone, too. so there's something afoot going on within trump world right now that the president's starting to think about can i knock off some more players. >> chris, kelly's influence seems to be waning shawn hannity seems to be gaining more -- gaining a foot in the white house. and "the washington post" is reporting through a source saying, quote, he basically has a desk at the white house. you have the ethical concerns about that? >> again, it may be true. shawn hannity may be kind of a de facto chief of staff at this point. remember bill clinton used to come into the oval office at the end of his first term and he would rip up the script and change everything. and his advisers were wondering who was whispering to him at night. it turned out it was this vile character morris who was advoozing him.
well, leon panetta was able to put a stop to that and take control of the process. they say in hollywood nobody knows anything. in washington nobody learns anything. this is especially true of presidents who are ignorant of history and who do not read. and i think if donald trump wants to be jimmy carter, if he wants to be a one-term president or worse he should just keep doing exactly what he's doing and try to run the white house himself. >> douglas i see you nodding your head back there. >> i couldn't agree with what chris just said, meaning donald trump, it's almost impossible to work for him. i don't think anybody could fulfill the job of white house chief of staff. and if this hard marine there's nobody to do it, because donald trump is lone wolf. he's paranoid. he's got a lot of heat and pressure on him right now, and he has one big play he's got to decide. do i knock off people like rod rosenstein and let jeff sessions
leave and take this whole mueller investigation by the scruff of the neck and try to beat it by being almost marshal in approach, or do you just kind of sit and let the clock tick on you? but this michael cohen situation for him has to be creating kind of anxiety you can't imagine. and i only hope that general kelly is secretly keeping diaries or notes about daily life in the white house for historians someday because it's got to be quite a circus scene around president trump. >> thank you, douglas, thank you, chris. when we come back the dnc suing the trump campaign, russia and wikileaks. do they have any chance of winning the suit? ig. or a c-anything-o. but i've got an idea sir. get domo. it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need.
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>> the democrats have filed a suit against russia, the trump campaign, wikileaks along with several associates of it president. they're alleging a far reaching conspiracy to disrupt the 2016 campaign and sway donald trump. keith, do you think this is smart move? >> i do. the democratic party if feels like -- first of all, hikts won more votes than trump did. the democrats are upset about trump the way he's governing and they feel the party isn't doing anything. and this is way the party can be more aggressive and there's a precedent for this. >> don't you think it makes it seem even more political? >> it is political. i get that but in 1972 there was a precedent for this win, the democratic party sued the nixon campaign because they cheated to win the election.
donald trump basically cheated to win this election. >> that's what they believe, he cheated? >> well, that's what's the lawsuit will prove. >> i have to say that's not what the evidence shows now. there's no concrete evidence -- >> i'm not talking about collusion. i'm saying cheated. the wikileaks examples, 15 minutes after wikileaks sent a message to donald trump, jr. saying you need to publish this -- >> i got you. >> donald trump went out and posted it on twitter. >> i got to move on because i don't want to go down the rabbit hole. alice and matt, guys know that i get frustrated and i start yelling and everybody gets mad at me. the dnc chairman said during the 2016 campaign russia launched an all out assault on our democracy and found a willing and active partner in donald trump's campaign. the campaign of a nominee for president of the united states in league with a hostile foreign power to bolster its own chance
to win the presidency. is this -- if this is true, is this lawsuit the only way to get to the bottom of it? >> well, right. so first of all we have a mueller investigation that this steps on and totally ignores. i think you're right, don, that this now makes it look partisan, right? the whole premise of the mueller investigation it's independent, not partisan. now we have -- there are actually aides that are saying this is partisan witch hunt, a political vendetta. it's taking politics and turning it into litigation. so i think that not only is this basically a move to raise money for the dnc, i think it's a fund-raising ploy, obviously. but i actually think it's actually counter productive in the long run if your goal is to actually have this mueller investigation be viewed as legitimate and fair. >> hold on, keith. because alice a dnc official
acknowledged today to my point of saying there's no evidence of cooperation between the trump campaign and russia in this lawsuit, so why file it now. >> that's a great question. look, this multi-million distraction from the fact the mueller investigation isn't moving fast enough, and they effectually assume there would be something substantive to talk about with regard to russian interference in the election at this point. look, there's not only no evidence of collusion between the trump campaign and russia, there's no evidence -- that we know of. you're right. >> and i think the important thing whether you're republican or democrat, russian interference in the election is a nonpartisan problem. we both want to get to the bottom of it. i think it's good if we let the mueller investigation play out. >> keith, raring to get in. >> i understand why they did
this, but also matt says it's a partisan thing. i'll admit tom perez says it's not partisan, of course it's partisan. anything a political party does isn't necessarily partisan, but who cares. this is an important lawsuit to deal with important issues. and yes, alice may be correct there's no definite evidence of collusion right now. but we do know that there was collusion with wikileaks. and that's what i was pointing out to don earlier, that they colluded with the quote-unquote -- grabbing taip. and wikileaks exposed the john podesta e-mails. there was clearly yard nation to use those e-mails that had been hacked by russia. >> you're saying there's enough irk substantial evidence that it warrants a lawsuit, that's what you believe? >> i think there is evidence something happened here including the trump tower meeting, trump's air force one discussion where he sat there and he revised the talk and
created those talking points. even if there's no collusion there's cleary evidence of obstruction of justice. >> let's put up david axelrod's tweet. i saw jackie spear, and i think she was on with wolf or jake. she thought it was ill-timed as well. does that concern you? >> look, i respect david and i agree with the mentality he's putting out there, but i'm leaning progressively with the democratic party, and this is the type of action we need. >> that's exactly right. it's about action. the liberal progressive base wants action, and so this has nothing to do with actually accomplishing anything. it's about telling the base what they want to hear. >> i've got to get to the break, allison. if you can do it quick. >> i don't think the base is concerned about this. this is important, but they're also concerned about the jobs and the economy, and they need to connect with the base on
issues that are important to them. when we come back students across the country walking out of school today to protest school shootings. one student who marched out alone just one month ago inspiring hundreds at his school to protest today. that student joins me next. it.♪ ♪ i try so hard, ♪ i can't rise above it ♪ don't know what it is 'bout that little gal's lovin'. ♪ applebee's new bigger bolder grill combos. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. i'm your phone,istle text alert. stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands?
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>> i think everyone raised their hand. i was like wow. that's more than one person this time. there were about a hundred people ready to greet me. >> what do you think changed between now and then? >> i'm thinking awareness. they didn't really know about it. a lot of people were talking about it. they all knew what the cause was. we were all having fun out there. sadly there was a shooting. it was the 20th school shooting. you retweeted this photo. it was retweeted by a student and shows how they used desks and file cabinets to barricade
themselves in. are you becoming more used to seeing and hearing about it? >> honestly we are. at school we practiced this -- we practiced our gun. what is the word i'm looking for? we practiced this at least three times since the florida shooting. we should be focusing on our work and not foe tcusing on one shouldn't be the focus. >> it should be studies and improving your mind. it was courage use fous. you were all by yourself that first time. i wonder why it was important for you to follow through.
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>> sadly she suffered sexual abuse as a teenager. she finally gained the courage to break her silence and discover the strength to take on a larger mission. >> i found out i wasn't alone there were tonsov of girls not being sexually abused. i had to use the rest of my life to prevent girls from going through what i went through. i think the biggest thing is
keeping the voice back to girls and allowing them to speak up. >> to learn more about the incredible work she is doing go to cnn.com. that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. a source tells cnn kim is committed to denuclearization and will focus only an the nation's economy. so what can you tell us about it. it is a huge development. plenty of reason to be cautious and skeptical but stunning nonetheless. >> of course it will be down to