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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 20, 2018 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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the commute is worth, the more you know you and that john deere tractor... you can keep dreaming up projects all the way home. it's a longer drive. but just like a john deere, it's worth it. a lot of breaking news to bring you on a busy friday night. we begin with an announcement from kim jong un. which, stunning. north korea reports says he says his regime no longer needs the nuclear or missile tests. he realized the best path forward is normalizing relation was other country. if true -- plenty of reasons to be cautious. but will ripley joins me from hong kong tp what are you hearing about how he came to this decision, if in fact it is his decision. >> i've been speaking with north korean officials who were taken by surprise by this announcement.
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but they say incredibly shroud. he met with party officials in pyongyang on friday they decided at least for now missile tests and nuclear tests are not the best path forward for north korea. arguably his missile program has gotten him to this point. he is recognized by world leaders. yet continuing the program could mean military conflict with the united states. could mean the continuation of crippling the economic sanctions. what my sources tell me is this indicates kim jong un's willingness to focus on trying to fulfill the promise to his people, a promise he made when he came to power to improve the economic living conditions. and in order to do that he feel that engages with the global community and not moving forward with nuclear -- with nuclear missile testing is the best way to go for now. but the north korean will never completely give up the leverage. they haven't said they will destroy the weapons. they might shut down the test site. but there might be another one
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we don't know about. they also said they won't continue to launch satellites which a lot of people feel use the same technology that could be used to put a war head towards the united states. there are a lot of things that need to be work out. >> this came after his visit to china meeting with the chinese premier as well as the visit by mike pompeo. >> it did. and apparently according to sources familiar with the discussion the meeting went well. i think that that meeting face-to-face with mike pompeo and kim jong un it showed the trump administration that kim is someone they they can deal with. kim jong un was described as personable, well prepared. obviously he has been studying about this, really studying president trump himself. he is going into the summit with a very clear list of what he hopes to gain out of this. we can only hope that president trump also will come prepared to potentially make a deal. because this is an opportunity
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that's never happened before. nine u.s. presidents, three north korean leaders. this is the first time the president and north korean leader sit down face-to-face. there may not be another opportunity like this again. boris sanchez joins me with the reaction from the white house. what does the president have to say about the announcement. >> hey there, anderson. tonight we see a shift are from language president trump previously used to describe the american relationship with north korea, no mention of little rocket man tonight. also a shift from even how he described the possibility of this summit just a few days ago. and answering questions about the possibility of the summit the president qualified it by saying if the north koreans went through, if they behave well, then the summit could take place. tonight the president is saying he is looking forward to the summit. he devoted out a short while ago wrietding north korea agreed to suspend nuclear tests and close up a test site.
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this is good news for america and the world. look forward to the summit. the president actually pinned that to his twitter account. of course there are a number of logistical issues to be ironed out specifically where this summit is going to take place. we reached out to the white house to see if they would expand on the president's tweet ton. but they have yet to put out a statement. >> i mean, this certainly gives the president some big pushback to his critics and to anyone who suggests he was going into the summit any concessions by north koreans. >> yeah, there was criticism of the administration after this announcement of a potential summit was made that the administration was appeasing kim jong un and giving into this craving that he has had to meet with an american president and elevate his country on the world stage. secretary of state nominee mike pompeo was criticized after the announcement of the secret meeting in north korea, some saying that he came back empty handed, what with there being american prisoners in north
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korea right now. but of course this is significant, this is ammunition for the administration to justify some of the rhetoric that we have heard from president trump in the past, his argument is that he is soft on the north koreans. of course the question is how serious is kim jong un about denuclearization? how transparent is he going to be? is he allowing an independent monitor to enter his nation and survey nuclear facilities? and and see denuclearization going to be irreversible? in other words can kim jong un ultimately flip a switch and from one day to the next restart the nuclear program from one day to the next? so still plenty of questions to be answered. again, this is significant. but as you well know, anderson, the united states has had deals with north korea before that have wound up in the waste bin of history. >> boris sanchez thanks. joining me is author of nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world. senior military analyst. mark herteling. jim sciutto.
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gordon, how significant is this. >> it is significant of course. i'm sure that kim jong un thinks he is playing us. his father in 2008 they destroyed the cooling tower for his reactor then a year from that they walked away from the six party talks. they are probably thinking they are doing the same thing as dad did. but there are so many dramatic events occurring one after the other. no matter the plans kim has i think he will be swept by momentum which means he can decide to play this out. but that's no the the way things occur. things are happening too fast and tao significant. >> with the united states and south korea. >> and certainly china is involved. japan is involved. president trump has shone that he is not allowing anyone to upstage him. you have a new national security advisers talked about attacking north korea when he was at fox news.
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you have events unnerving kim jong un. by the way he needs sanctions relief. because it's pretty clear the u.n. sanctions, u.s. sanctions are starting to constrict the flow of money to kim mean he needs cash. that means he has to talk to trump. >> general herteling, do you believe north korea will want something in return, a freeze for freeze as some people said? >> well, this is a positive development, anderson but i'm not breathlessly excited about this. i normally don't disagree with gordon but on this i do. there is a lot of talking required yet. and all it is is a freeze of something that kim jong un has already proven ke do. he has proven he can fire missiles. he has proven he can test nuclear weapons. he is doing this to set the trap i believe. you know, he has been negotiating with both the president of china and the prime minister -- as mr. trump has been talking to the prime minister of japan. the north koreans have been sending foreign minority to moscow.
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there has been a lot of discussion behind the scene other than mr. pompeo going over. i think there is a lot more to be considered. i'm not excited yet. in fact i'm skeptical. this has happened before. >> you said he is setting a trap. how so? >> i believe that he has the most to gain. he is in a very good situation. he has proven his nuclear program works. possibly not as much as he'd like. he needs primarily the economic assistance, as gordon just said. that's critical to kim jong un right now. he needs to bring his population around. he has seen positive development. i think he is getting help from some of the neighbors. >> jim, if you were kim jong un why would you denuclearize? their definition of denuclearization seems to be different than ours. but you look at what happened to khadaffi it didn't end up well for him. >> it's seen as --
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it's a matter of survival. we have often talked about how folks from the outside will say well kim is a crazy man, irrational behavior, et cetera. but folks who know north korea well say in fact north korea's security pols policy is very rational from their point of view. you'll hear this even from u.s. intelligence officials from their point of view they are outmatched. they're surrounded by rivals. basically have one sort of friend, china, in the world. so nuclear power, nuclear weapons are the best chance of survival. so when they say denuclearize really more likely to be talking about a freeze as gordon and mark -- general herteling were talking about. the question becomes what does the u.s. then -- does the u.s. freezes for exercising? how long? how comfortable is south korea with that? also possible only on the table an actual treaty to end the korean war which has been inactive since 1953 but not overtly over. if you reached agreement there suitable to both sides it would give north korea a sense of
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security that they would -- they wouldn't have be in danger of a first strike for instance. but you know complete -- and i'll defer to the smarter folks on the panel. but complete denuclearization based on folks i talk to seems far-fetched. >> gordon be with moving forward what does the u.s. need to be cautious about. >> everything. this is the kim regime after all. they've been good at this. they've had a nuclear weapons program since 1965 maybe since the fighting of in the korean war in 1953. but we have high cards and haven't played all of them yet. of course kim doesn't want to give up the destructive weapon processes. but if he is put in a position where he might lose the regime he could well decide to do that. for instance, he may not have the money for gift politics politics which is giving the gift items. if he doesn't have cash to do that. power or give up nukes.
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>> that's critical for him to stay in power. the kim regime. the second thing they need to do is take over south korea. what kim is thinking right now is if he starts a momentum of events then well he'll be able to submit -- so force south korea into submission. that sounds ludicrous. but that's been the kim family policy 70 years. >> general herteling how important are the joint nuclear exercises with south korea that the united states does. they would be potentially on the negotiating table when people say a freeze for a freeze. >> right and that's the one step i was going to go, the joint military exercises are extremely important. and when you take a look -- again the setting of the trap -- is there a leaning toward the potential of a deal that would get some or all of u.s. forces off the peninsula that would disrupt the alliance we've had seven years. if that were to occur and not trying to go too far forward too fast but that would be
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significant to russia and china. very insignificant -- very problematic for the south koreans and japanese. but that's been a goal of kim jong un. it's also been a goal of the russians and chinese to get u.s. forces off the peninsula. so and see part of of the deal making? is that kim is going to ask president trump for? and we have seen a propensity for president trump to say why do we have the forces on the peninsula? who is paying for this? what quine of defensive measure? remember that was part of the mantra "washington post", attorney jeff sessions threatening to quit with the president fires rod rosenstein. what happened in federal court today on the storm daniels lawsuit. i'll talk to her attorney later on tonight. express yourself.. brow stylist shape and fill pencil by l'oréal. the easy-to-use triangular tip shapes and fills. the spoolie brush blends.
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well, we are the number-one motorcycle insurer in the country. -wait. you have a real motorcycle? and real insurance, with 24-hour customer support. arcade game: wipeout! oh! well... i retire as champion. game hog! champion. breaking news from the "washington post" ton, attorney general jeff sessions reported told the white house he might have to leave his job if the president fires rod rosen. the he called don mcgahn with warning. amid that the president was furious with rosenstein for the raid on michael cohen home and offers. as james comey wrote details of the conversation was the president. the justice department watch dog group is investigating whether classified information was improperly shared.
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our panel, is here ton. gloria this move by sessions, would that be good news to president trump, the idea that jeff session wos resign if rod rosenstein was fired. >> he might think two for the price of one here. because he doesn't like jeff sessions and he doesn't like rod rosenstein. he might think okay well i didn't know that. maybe i should do that. on the other hand, it's very clear that jeff sessions' message to don mcgahn look if this occurred you would have a revolt on your hands in the justice department. and that would be a real problem. and that sessions was very happy to learn that in the meeting that rosenstein had with the president last friday in which we are recording that rosenstein apparently told the president that he had no legal jeopardy in the michael cohen case, that the president was pretty happy with that news and maybe with rosenstein. maybe now he won't fire him. and jeff sessions will be happy. >> rich, would be it a problem politically for the president if he fired rosenstein and sessions quit? >> yes. yes it sure would.
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anything i does to move against mueller almost any form now would risk causing a semi collapse in his justice department. he won be able to get confirmed aj or a deputy ag to replace him. legitimacy in his justice department. even though he is irritated at the probe obviously, hates the way it widened out there is no good alternative other than weathering it. >> are you surprised to hear satisfactions going to bat for rosenstein. >> a little bit. except it's his deputy he should support him. it's heartening to see that sessions doesn't seem to be buying into the narrative of some of the trump surrogates that rosenstein has already done things that warrant his firing. at least to me he supports him to that extend which is good. >> kim. >> i'm glad to hear rich say it would be a bad thing. because i think in the minds of too many people especially people who support trump, firing rosenstein wouldn't be as bad as
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firing mueller. and to me i completely agree with you you. firing rosenstein would be just as bad as firing mueller. because it's an attempt to get the mueller investigation out of the way. so i think that and even if it's a double whammy with sessions would certainly i think cause a constitutional crisis. and then would cause whether republicans trying to put something in place to protect mueller, whatever you have it, i think it would be a bad sign for the trump campaign. >> scott. >> this confirmation issue is real. look how much trouble they confirming the nasa guy. they had to twist arms and we don't have the space shuttle. pompeo having issues. cia comes up. the v.a. coming up. throwing two more shrimps on this confirmation barbie would lead this department rudderless and leaderless. sessions is implementing the president's agenda. >> that's the thing, van, about sessions, not only was he an early supporter ever trump. could stot's point maybe more
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than else's pushing the president's agenda forward. >> he is most trumpian of the trump team and yet the most despised and spat upon. that's the trump style. the closer you are to him the more he dislike likes. but you see the institutions buckling and strange but not breaking under trump's antics and his fits and his bluster and threats. you are seeing the institutions holding on. and if a sessions were to leave, don't forget, this is a former senator. he can pick up the phone and call a bunch of people to his defense in the u.s. senate. so far the republican leadership has basically been quiet while trump acted this way. we don't like the tweets. but once you start wrecking institutions senators tend to start making a lot more noise. >> here is the irony that you'd
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have chuck schumer and every democrat who doesn't like jeff sessions going out there and defending sessions. >> do not fire jeff sessions whatever you do. >> kon on the comey memos how big a deal is that the inspector general is looking into whether comey -- basically there was classified information in the memos that leaked out. and also to a wider circle perhaps than previously. >> it's a huge deal. any time the inspector general is looking at conduct like that they will make criminal referrals. it's not good news for comey in that sense if it leads to anything. on let other hand the key issue to the extent you think of a possible obstruction case is is comey credible? is what he said in testimony and what he says in the memos, is that the true version? and you know, were kwl there was classified information classified after the fact in the memos or not doesn't get to that key issue. on the one hand yes a potential problem for comey.
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on the other hand not really to the heart of it. >> i think comey's credibility has suffered mightily this week. i don't think the interviews have gone well. i think we had a guy known as the facts man go to a guy now just a hack man. he has been petty, small. a lot of people in the fbi don't like it that he put that organization in the position by releasing a book during the middle of an investigation. now you flo the memo issue being investigated on top of it, i've been in the pr business a few years. this is not going right. >> any time you have to say you regret putting something in the book which you just wrote that's not a good thing. i mean he said regretted the personal comments about the president. >> except for comey right now has more credibility than donald trump. >> does he? >> yes he does. >> i don't know that's true. >> but here is the point. i had to chuckle when i heard about the inspector general, because this is exactly what he did to hillary. maybe he will deemed as having been extremely careless in handling of classified information.
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>> do you think the memos, rich, that came out yesterday and of course were instantly leaked hurt the president at all. >> i don't think so. i think -- it depends on where you sit on this and how you squint on look at them. he wanted to be investigated. he says look there is a salacious story about me in russia. can you investigate it? because it's not true. and then -- then he actually tells comey if there are satellites around me who did something wrong with regard to russia i want to know. and i think -- my read of this memo is what really irritated him was that comey was repeatedly saying you sir aren't under investigation. can you get that out there is enormous cloud on me can you please tell someone that's the case. i think comey didn't do that ultimately was the reason that trump fired him rather than trying to shut down the investigation. >> we got to get a quick break in. more on michael cohen when we come back. what he reportedly tried to tell melania about stormy daniels. also breaking news about stormy daniels former attorney and whether he is cooperating with prosecutors in the investigation
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cohen's office and hotel room for documents related to the president. the conversation has shifted to whether cohen would flip to avoid jail time here is what was said in the last hour. >> michael cohen has done all kinds of things at the president's urging because the president wanted him to because he came to sort of intuit what he thought the president would want. it didn't work out sometimes those things were handled in a way that was ham fist or came back to bite the president later. the stormy daniels case would be one of them. but cohen was basically trying to do right which his boss and seeking his boss's approval. and trump time after time trump treated him poorly over a period of time.
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jennifer, how problematic is that for michael cohen that now you have another lawyer it seems like stormy daniels attorney is cooping with the authorities here- and now keith davidson who seemed to have a number of contacts basically on the karen mcdougal case as well as the stormy daniels case with michael cone copen and possibly others. >> that's interesting. because it's strange that the same lawyer represented those two people. >> it's his specialty from what understand. >> if karen mcdougal's allegations are correct he was complicit with michael cohen putting this together. >> he dmois that he was complicit. he said he gave cohen a courtesy call. >> understood but it's a weird coincide he end ended up with both. and if he is admitting to some sort of conspiracy between him and michael cohen about hushing this up on terms favor to believe cohen and therefore trump it could be real trouble. >> it's also into the clear as i said what the authorities have on michael cohen.
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we have no idea there is -- there is things that are leaked out that was in the search warrant about tax y medallions. we don't know how much is about the stormy daniels stuff or prior stuff. >> the search warrant was a lot about the stormy daniels stuff. the search warrant did mention the president. and i think one of the reasons davidson is so furious is the story we did which was that michael cohen had actually taped his conversations with davidson. which pleased him not too much. so davidson is furious. he is cooperating. we don't know what's -- what's on those conversations. and these two lawyers worked together a couple of times that we know of and maybe more. you know, we don't know. >> the other thing is not only do we not know what michael cohen has -- i mean if i'm the president of the united states i'm not really sure -- i assume he is not sure what michael cohen has nor would the president's attorneys be sure what michael cohen has on their client. if anything.
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>> here is the big take away. if you have sleazy lawyers around you doing sleazy things, you might not want to run for president, because at some point it may turn out though sleazia lawyers doing sleazy things get caught up in sleazy controversies and get sleaze on you. the best you can say is that donald trump has horrible judgment in who he hangs around. almost one more thing. i don't think it's unreasonable that donald trump is upset about all of this. i mean just as a practical matter, if your lawyer, you know, turned out the had his office raided you won like that. that's fine. but the problem that you have though is that this is a lawyer who at least according to donald trump goes and freelances, throwing money at porn stars and does weird stuff in your name. and you know, that's where the peril comes from. donald trump has sent him on terrible missions. but he has also apparently thought up his own terrible missions.
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>> what's fascinating about the article in the times today is that donald trump has treated michael cohen terribly over the years. and now the tables are sort of turned. and you know michael cohen has publicly said i'd always take a bullet or the president. but at a certain point are you taking a bullet for somebody treating you like this? i had no idea the extent to which he has been belittled this person, mocked him publicly privately it's stunning. >> it's hard to know where michael cohen's head is at. it may be his identity is so caught up in donald trump he is not turning. >> because reading the article i kept saying to myself why. >> you would turn, right. >> well, no, but why has he stuck it out with mr. trump. >> he has been around rich and famous people and the center of power in a way he never would have been. >> that's not that interesting. i've been pretty -- over the years i've met a lot of rich and famous they're not particularly interesting.
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>> all the time that might be your field but if you weren't around them at all. >> he is not making that much money if he took a home equity loan out for $130 to pay off stormy daniels. >> and the other thing he has a family. and he is staring down the barrel of possible indictment, you know, life -- or a lot of time in prison. so he might take a bullet for him. but if he is staring down that barrel there is going to be some incentive for him to flip. and to continue your analogy if you are having sleazy lawyers doing sleazy things on your before maybe you don't want to throw them under the bus and treat them like dogs. >> scott. i was sad about the story. this is a groan man having the papers knocked out of his hands. >> i totally agree. >> i also think about this story before the article came out i've been thinking this man is a candidate for presidential pardon if ever was one. but the way trump treats cohen i'm like, is he? if i were cohen and seeing the
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replace damage is splashed out there and i'm thinking maybe i'll get a pardonen out of this i don't know, gloria. >> well, except. >> i don't know. i think the family treats him the same way honestly. i think that his original relationship was with don jr. i don't know where that relationship is now. but jared and ivanka are not close to him. he wasn't brought into the white house. >> right. >> he wanted to go into this white house. and he was left behind. >> jennifer. >> whether he likes him owner or how close they are owner, the combination of four days after the raid, the pardon of scooter libby from with the call from trump to cohen tells me that's a signal. even though i don't like you stay put, the pardon will come. >> thank you from the panel. one quick note van jones is back with bernie sanders and planned parenthood president. you can see them tomorrow added 7:00 p.m. eastern. coming up next, james comey
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doesn't hold back and talks about seeing emptiness in the president unlike any other adult. he said to to the editor of the new yorker, and i'll speak with him next. to move california forward,
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more now on james comey. last night the fired fbi director continued his buick tour with a public event here in new york city. comey answered questions from david remnick, the editor of new yorker. it's going to be featured oh the new yorker podcast and public radio stations around the country. here a key moment from the interview. >> he said earlier today in an interview that you don't hate the president. you don't even dislike him. i'll let that pitch go by. >> my wife asked me the same question after she saw the interview. and the answer is i dislike many of the things he does. him as a person i actually -- it's sounding odd i feel sorry for. >> how so. >> i think -- i've said this before it's a hard thing to say. but i think he has an emptiness inside of him and a hunger for affirmation i've never seen in an adult.
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and i'm in the saying that to be funny. i think that he lacks external reference points. and instead of calling -- making hard decisions by calling upon a religious tradition or logic or tradition or history. it's all what will fill this hole? david joins me with more on the interview. >> i thought it was interesting one of the things james comey said to you is that the president is partly driven by what he described as a hunger for affirmation. >> it's amazing that at once he has a hunger for affirmation and at the same time he is trying to put the arms on him in a which that comey describes as mafia-like. >> um-hum. >> but this is consistent with other people's reaction to trump's personalities. after all i believe it was you who in a presidential debate you're answering this question like a 5-year-old. >> yeah. >> it's not uncommon. but to have -- how bizarre is this? the florm head of the fbi is
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saiko analyzing the president of the united states. >> saying he was like a mafia boss. >> that too. this is a guy experiencewood the mafia. >> but things are so -- things become so unusual at a certain point it seems normal. now he says the president is like a mafia back. and theb you say this is the formerer head of the fbi. >> and this is our daily lives. >> i know. >> every day is something that in another presidency is unimaginable. unimaginable. if you filled in obama for trump for half of the things we hear about you would -- it's unthinkable. unthinkable. >> one of the memos comey wrote the president followed him that the hookers thing isn't true. but also that putin told him russia has some of the beautiful are most beautiful hookers in the world. >> but i think it's possible -- i don't want to necessarily say it's true -- that trump -- i believe putin. excuse me. i believe comey that trump said
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that. >> trump said that. >> but i believe trump once said this in a tfrgs interview in russia on russian television. it's not entirely impossible that trump's mind bush bush -- because his mind works in peculiar ways thought he said it to him on the telephone. >> it's something i could see the president making up. he made up. >> the matter. >> prior that he used to have a relationship with putin. >> remember putin on television in an interview did say we have the most beautiful hookers in the world. that's a typical putin half a dirty joke kind of remark. >> comey wrote that the president insisted to him he did not spend the night in moscow during his trip in 2013. >> he did spend the night. >> did he. yeah. >> during the miss universe contest as your colleague and mine jeff tuben reported in the new yorker and other reporters have recounted in their meticulous reporting on his short trip to moscow that he did spend the night. >> the problem with discrepancies in what the
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president says is that one doesn't know if there is meaning behind it or if it's just stuff that the president makes up. >> the greater meaning -- the greater meaning is that he lies. he lies just for the hell of it sometimes. he lies sometimes because he doesn't remember it and he just says stuff. he lies sometimes because he has to get out of a jam. he lies copiously and all the time. this is not some ideological statement i'm making. >> do you think that anything comey said either in the book or in the memos or in interviews has shed light on the president's approach to vladimir putin and the lack of criticism that the president has made directly about vladimir putin? >> no, i don't think in that area there was anything of tremendous importance. i think there was -- what was important vis-a-vis. -- it was not important vis-a-vis putin himself what's important is the decision making process that comey is making. i found it curious and i'm
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confounded by the idea that comey failed to and refused to join in the intelligence statement about russian meddling in the election, even though he agreed with it. but by having the fbi stay out of it and leaving it to the dni, cia, he you see aroused conspiracy theories that the fbi didn't agree with it. i found that decision very confounding both in the book and in our interview. >> david thanks very much. >> thanks for having me. >> just aic quick programming note next wednesday i sit down with james comey for a townhall interview, 8:00 p.m. eastern. coming up tonight a necessary delay in the stormy daniels case. michael cohen's lawyers asking for one. the latest from court and reaction from stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti next. how do you win at business? stay at laquinta. where we're changing with contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today.
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cohen's attorney is asking the judge to put the adult film star's lawsuit on hold after the fbi raided his client's office, home, and hotel room. the judge is refusing to make a ruling until he hearse directly from mr. cohen. in a moment, i'll speak with stormy daniels' attorney. but first, i'll get more insight on how this all played out. miguel marquez joins us from the los angeles courtroom with details. explain what happened in court today. >> reporter: big picture was the judge and the lawyers, but in particular the judge was really trying to understand how the criminal case in new york and the civil case here in california, where they overlap, how much they overlap, and if they do overlap, can both situations move forward at the same time or does there have to be a stay here for 30, 60, or 90 days as michael cohen's attorneys are asking, so they can sort out the issues in new york before moving forward here in california with the civil case, anderson.
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>> miguel marquez, thanks. >> there's something else that played out in court today. michael cohen's attorney mentioned something that stormy daniels' attorney has said, claiming that cohen could be indicted in the next 90 days. joining me now is stormy daniels' attorney, michael avenatti. michael, what do you make of michael cohen's legal team using in court today your own timetable for what you say could be a potential criminal indictment against him in new york, basically trying to use that against you to try to slow down your civil lawsuit. >> well, i mean, i thought, anderson, it was cute. but beyond that, it wasn't very effective. the judge isn't going to make a decision based on the timetable that i provide publicly. he's going to make a decision based on competent, admissible evidence, and he found, to quote him, that their motion, their attempt had gaping holes, closed quote, in connection with it. so, you know, i think they're in a bad place as relates to this motion. and i think the judge sees through it. i don't know what he's going to ultimately rule, but we were
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very, very pleased with how the hearing went today. and, you know, this is really a continuation, anderson, of donald trump and michael cohen, trying to be cute in their approach to things. it's no different than donald trump not signing the nda. now we have michael cohen not wanting to go on record and submit a document that states unequivocally that it's his intention to plead the fifth amendment. the reason why he doesn't want to do that is, they don't want to face scrutiny from you and others in the media as to the seriousness of that. i mean, we're talking about the personal attorney to the president of the united states that's going to plead the fifth as it relates to issues directly at the feet of the president. >> you have no doubt that he would plead the fifth if you were able to depose him? >> i have little doubt, especially after today's hearing, and listening to what his counsel had to say. i think in the event that we get a deposition, i think we are, he's going to take the fifth amendment against self-incrimination, and that's a rather shocking development. >> what's interesting about that, though, in a criminal case, that is not supposed to impact how a jury or how a judge
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views the defendant or views that, as somebody pleading the fifth. in a civil case, as i understand it, the judge or the jury is allowed to actually infer that if michael cohen is pleading the fifth, that if he actually had to answer the question, it would not reflect well on him. >> you're absolutely right. in a federal civil matter, the jury or the judge, whoever the fact finder is in the particular case, can draw what's called a negative inference, and can do just what you've described. that's not true in a criminal matter. >> president trump's divorce attorney from many years ago told our gloria borger this week that he warned the president recently that cohen would likely flip and cooperate with criminal federal investigators. i know that's something, obviously, you have been saying for quite some time. it was interesting to hear this guy who was an old friend of the president's, who's represented him in a number of divorce cases, essentially say on a scale of 1 to 100, michael cohen
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isn't even a 1 in terms of being reliable and not flipping. >> yeah, i saw that as well. i found it rather shocking. i've been saying he's not even a 1 as it relates to legal competence, but i was a little surprised to hear that relating to the 1 to 100 on a loyalty scale. but it's fairly obvious, anderson, at this point, that michael cohen and you're right, i've been saying this for weeks, michael cohen is not going to subject himself to 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 years in a federal prison for donald trump, who has never shown him or at least not recently has shown him no loyalty, kicked him to the curb, blew him off when he went to washington. why would michael cohen take that large a round, that large a bullet for mr. trump? it would make no sense and it would be a stupid decision on michael cohen's part. >> earlier in the week, you released a sketch. it's the sketch that stormy daniels had given to a sketch artist. and i know you put out a website. have you gotten a lot of responses for it? can you say anything about it? >> we've gotten over 2,000 leads.
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i would describe probably about 400 of those as being credible. we're spending an enormous amount of time and energy running those to ground. you know, i think a number of them have or show promise. we're going to be very, very careful, anderson, though, as you might imagine, as it relates to identifying that individual and certainly, before we announce anything, because the consequences can be so high. >> michael avenatti, michael, thanks. >> thank you. up next, george h.w. bush greets mourners in houston as they pay their respects to his wife of 73 years, former first lady, barbara bush. it took guts to start my business. but as it grew bigger and bigger, it took a whole lot more. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. everything. and that 2% cash back adds up to thousands of dollars each year... so i can keep growing my business in big leaps! what's in your wallet?
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transitions™ light under control™ hundreds of people lined up early this morning to pay their respects to the late former first lady, barbara bush. her husband, former president george h.w. bush greeted mourners as they walked past her casket in a church in houston where they worshiped. barbara bush died tuesday at the age of 92. the funeral is tomorrow. a life well lived. an extraordinary lady. thanks for watching "360." time to hand it over to don lemon. "cnn tonight" starts right now. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. we have breaking news, obviously, because there always is. and we're learning that attorney general jeff sessions, who's
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been on thin ice ever since he recused himself from the russia investigation, recently said he might be forced to leave if president trump fires rod rosenstein. "the washington post" is reporting that sessions wasn't making a threat, but the protest -- it just sort of reignites a resignation, i should say, of an attorney general would not be a good look. and we have some breaking news tonight on trump's legal team. sources telling us that the president himself pushed to bring us on rudy giuliani. trump demanded a big name to knock down reports of multiple a-listers turning him down. and now he's got a big name, but will that really help with the mueller investigation? one source says, the idea that rudy giuliani could bring the mueller investigation to a quick end is, quote, not serious thinking. but what may be the biggest question the trump legal team is dealing with now, how long will michael cohen stay loyal? the president's fixer has always been the loyalist of the loyal,