tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN April 29, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT
this is gps, the global public square, welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, summit diplomacy on steroids. -- > >> what history looks like in the making. >> what an extraordinary day. >> history in the making. >> peace on the korean peninsula. >> kim jong-un meets his south korean counterparter to the first time ever. angela merkel and emanuel macron ask trump -- >> in many indicaticases, they' illegally here, and they have guns and they shoot people.
you wouldn the the >> there's good news about the crime right in the united states. also from abraham lincoln to france ferdinand, assassinations of political figures have altered history. but what happens when it's the political figures ordering the killings. we'll examine the extraordinary case of israel and it's policy of assassinations. but first here's my take. emanuel macron came, saw and conquered washington this week. but the french president is trying to do something much harder than just generate buzz and good will. he's trying to stop donald trump from dividing the western alliance and disrupting the already turbulent middle east. flattering trump and then politely disagreeing with him,
is like watching a skilled dancer execute a complex set of moves. it will be interesting to see if macron can pull it off, but thank goodness he's trying. on wednesday, macron told me that he thinks that donald trump will get rid of the iran deal for domestic reasons. if donald trump pulls out of the deal, the most likely result is tehran might even withdraw from the deal. president trump does not seem to have read the agreement. the third line of it states, iran commits to never developing nuclear weapons. there's no time restriction on that. the word we use is never. the time restrictions rhett to voluntary limits on our nuclear energy program that we have undertaken to give the international community confidence that we are sincere in our intentions, end quote.
macron has pushed trump privately and publicly to keep the iran deal. it sets a terrible precedent for the world's leading power to renege on an agreement that's already been signed. trump has signaled that he's going to pull out of the paris climate accord and now seems determined to scuttle the pack with iran. in any event, emanuel macron is determined not to wring his hands but to find a way forward. plus his artful proposal for its new nuclear deal. macron is suggesting something quite different. it's new approach is adherence to the existing nuclear deal, unamended and unabridged, but he would introduce three additional pillars, and extend the
commitments iran has made beyond various timelines in the current deal. in other words were iran to agree to start talking about these new issues, the existing deal would remain intact. it's not clear that trump will agree to the frame work of the worst deal ever made. both sides would have to decline from their critics. for 40 years, america and iran have settled into a pattern of behavior, america sees its role as applying pressure and threats to iran. while iran thinks it's role is to bravely resist. the nuclear deal was an effort to break with the past and create a new dynamic of cooperation. macron is trying to forge a new
dynamic of talk and diplomacy. by mindlessly sticking to the old pattern, they seem to be leading us down a path of tension, conflict and perhaps even war. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. >> and now the big korea news, president trump said last night at a rally at washington township, michigan said he expected to meet with kim jong-un in the next three to four weeks. this comes of course after friday's historic agreement between president moon and -- the two leaders declared a new
era of peace has begun, but has it? senior analyst at -- eliot abrams was the deputy national security advisor for george w. bush. he's now senior fellow on the council on foreign relations. blink blinken -- let me start with you. how do you make sense of kim jong-un? this is a guy who a year ago was threatening war, taking actions that seem to suggest that, and now seems to be thinking of every way he can to make peace overtures had just reunited the time zone. north korea had agreed to a
different time zone as south korea. he wanted to make the point that the north is different and independent. is this all symbolic peace overtures or is there more to it? >> that remains to be seen. certainly he has made a tactical shift. and we have seen that, and i don't want to minimize the historic moment this was between the two korean leaders, i'm a korean citizen, i grew up there, and i've been to the dmz. when you look at the joint statement that came out, it was great in symbolism, but the question of denuclearization was still not clear. of course there were other summits in the past, there was five joint korea declarations. and it's not so different from
those. so there's a lot of feel good symbolic stuff, but i'm wondering about denuclearizat n denuclearization. he said in the joint statement that there was commitment of denuclearization of the korean peninsula, but of course north korea used to have a very different definition of what that means, they used to mean south korea. extending nuclear umbrella over south korea. so there are more questions are raised than are answered right now. so we have to see. >> tony blinken. what about all those past deals, are they worth bringing up or is that sort of unnecessary skeptical? in other words, the north koreans have signed 2007, 2000, they have pledged not to do any further tests. but this does feel different. this feels like, you know, i mean, one thing, you know, just the scope and breadth with which
he is approaching it, does feel different. >> somefareed, a couple of months ago before the olympics, we seemed to be heading toward a korean conflict. but i think sumi is right to inject some notes of caution and restraint. first how did we get here? first relentless pressure on north korea. but second, north korea has made so much progress with it's nuclear weapons and missiles that it can afford a time out. and there was probably some talk of fire and fury, and both koreas wanted to pre-empt some kind of war. this is incredibly complex, it took about two years to negotiate the iran deal. and as sumi said, we have seen
declarations in the past that are at least as forward leaning, we have seen on denuclearization, far more forward leaning language. and one more thing, kim has gotten a very important thing owl out of this. they have put peace over denuclearizati denuclearization, obama said that peace would be the reward for denuclearization. it now they're on a fast track, the peaceful track is more amenable to denuclearization. >> the fundamental point that's being raised here is that trump has made all the concessions. for 35 years, north koreans have wanted eed to meet the america president. for 30 years they have wanted toi talk about ending the korean
war. but america has always said first you have to stop being a rogue state, then we will reward you with these things. aren't they getting rewarded with concessions before they have done anything more than things like reunify the time zones? >> i don't think they're being rewarded yet. first of all, we have to say 30 years of american policy under presidents of both parties has failed. it was in those years that they got nuclear missiles and nuclear weapons. so maintaining the same policy doesn't sound like a brilliant view. my other point is kim looks at the jcpoa and basically says, i want one of those, i want a deal where i can pause on my bl ballistic missiles and my nuclear program for ten years. and then i. what to be able to proceed. >> as a korean-american, it must
have been fascinating just to hear from this guy. north korean leaders are people we never even knew what they sounded like, we have learned that he has a kid, we know what he sounds like, has that been r r revelator revelatori. >> kim jong-il was a very private guy, and kim jong-un, i actually heart his voice, the way he was speaking, the way he acts with others, i think this is a huge intelligence benefit in terms of trying to understand their leader, of north korea. >> all right, we are going to talk a little bit more about north korea, but lost iran, the clock is ticking, donald trump is less than two weeks away from making a decision on the iran deal. and despite treaties from macron and merkel, president trump s m
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this morning on fox news, national security advisor john bolton has said that president trump has made no decision on whether to stay in the iran deal or pulling out. what would it mean if he does, joining me are sumi, eliot and leslie. asking you as an opponent of the iran deal, you said in the first segment, north korea is probably dreaming about getting a version of jcpoa.
and that is the iran deal. isn't it fair to say that if what you're trying to get north korea to sign is something probably not even close to the iran deal, because the iran deal doesn't allow iran to have any nuclear energy program that could lead to a nuclear weapons program. it would seem bizarre when you're trying to get north korea to do some watered down version of the iran deal, to tear up the iran deal. >> i don't think so, i think if trump stays in the iran deal which he won't do. then kim jong-un says i can get a deal like that that does not cause me to abandon anything, it just means i pause for a while. and i think like the president does, it's a very bad deal. if the president gets out of the deal, the message to kim jong-un is, i'm not going to do what the president views as a weak deal like that, you are truly going to have to denuclearize, which
means abandon nuclear weapons forever. remember that the iran deal, the jcpoa, is just a ten-year deal, parts of it are a 5-year deal. and two of those are already gone. >> in 15 or 25 years. tony, what do you say to that? because i have to remind people, iran has no nuclear weapons, 20 years before north korea, in a sense >> i think the president has tweeted himself into a corner. if he tears up the iran deal, it does send a message to kim jong-un that we are not worth the agreements we sign. but calling it the worst deal in history, trump has set the bar very high for himself in any deal he makes with north korea. is he going to be able to get them to get rid of their nuclear
program, that's the bar he sets for himself. he says the iran deal is terrible, he needs to get a better deal with north korea. i think that's a very high bar, it's going to be very challenging to see the president clear it. >> eliot, i have to ask you about both the iran and north korea deals, one part to me that becomes clear is that for the longest time what people said about north korea and iran, these are crazy regimes, they're not rational, they want the end of the world, they want to kind of blow themselves up in a great act of war. they're rational, they you can make a deal with them. if incentives are alined correctly, it will work. it seems both in iran and north korea, it becomes abundantly clear these people are not crazy. >> i would say in the case of north korea, it is still is the
most vicious, violent, brutal regime on the facing of the earth. >> that's different from being crazy. >> and what we're seeing from kim is he's more calculating and more concerned about his image abroad. in the case of iran, i would generally agree with you, but i think their hatred of israel does seem to be eirrational, frm the point of view of iran. they design to be a confrontation state with israel is not about iran's national security and is not about the people of iran. >> i would agree that it's kind of some public relations ploy. they don't do much about it. we still have the great puzzle of kim jong-un and i want to understand how you see the reversal, because on some level, isn't it true, sumi, that he built up, built up, built up, he
was very 4friendly with china ad japan, it's very unlikely he will give up what he and the regime have spent 25 years building up. >> you're absolutely right. so there's two ways of looking at this, it's a maximum pressure, it's access sessions, or it could be that kim jong-un believes he's finished his program and he's actually coming into this negotiate from a position of strength. so i'm afraid he will offer a deal with the trump administration, on an icbm, that might take care of our business, in terms of protecting our main land or homeland, but it does not protect our allies, japan or south korea's interests. so i'm concerned that this is a
deal that kim jong-un will bring in the meeting with president trump. >> eliot abrams, is that a fair concern? a number of people have privately told me is that donald trump loves the idea of being a deal maker, he loves the idea of this is going to be a -- you can almost pay -- you can turn this into a pay-per-view summit in terms of the level of interest. is there a danger that he will give away the store to make a deal? >> i don't think so, he's been wanting to do an israe israeli-palestinian peace deal, yet we're 16 months into the administration and we have not offered a trump peace proposal because the president agrees he's not there yet. i do think he will pull out of the iran deal and i think that is a good prelude to negotiating with the north koreans. it's not a treaty, it's not an
executive agreement, nobody actually signed it, it's just a political agreement with barack obama. and if the north koreans are concerned about that, then we should do some sort of more formal agreement, that congress approved, remember, congress never approved the iran deal. >> we'll leave it at that, fascinating conversation, thank you all. on gps, you might have heard recently that more murders were committed in london than in new york both in february and march. does that shock you? not when you consider the amazing decline that has happened in new york city and more broadly in america over the last 30 years. we will explain the reasons for that decline, when we come back. ♪ you're simply the best. ♪ better than all the rest
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america and at a stunning rate. let's look right here in this neighborhood where cnn is located in columbus circumstance 8. this precinct last year had 16 murders, 2,135 robberies, 2,912 burglar is, and just over 1,000 stolen cars. each of those has dropped 95%. 1990 was also the worst year for homicide in general, with 2,245 people killed and on the flip side last year, new york city recorded it's lowest number of murders going all the way back to the korean war, at 290. and it's not just this neighborhood in new york city, it's america, violent crime has fallen 2/3 from the early 1990s
and property crime is dun own b more than half. why in the world has this happened? and why are we not talking about it and studying it more? i sat down with the author of a new yorker article entitled "the great crime decline." why the dramatic drop? >> many competing theories, high tho hypothes hypothesises. new kinds of community policing, body rising from within communities, where communities took control of their own safety. new kinds of policing coming from the police forces, where instead of chasing crime after it happened, the police were in there to stop crime before it could happen. because most crime takes place in relatively few places and relatively nameable locations. those things matter a great
deal. another change is the number of eyes on the street. this best preventer of crime is have been a lot of people on the street watching, that's why we had relatively lower crime rates when you had highly populated nabt neighborhoods, more people copping incop coming into the city, more people using the subway late at night, there are a lot of things that converged together to greet this extraordinary decline. >> why do you think that the image is still one that you can play with. trump harps on american carnage, like chicago, as if it were the country at large. >> i think we have lived through the crime rise, when you and i were growing up, the crime has definitely increased. if you were the taxi driver in new york, the steamy manholes and guns on every corner, i
think that had an affect on people out of proportion and even long after the reality had altered. and i think trump, for instance, is able to profit from people's long-term memories and also the profit from the reality that's very hard to report good news, a mugging on a street corner is something that makes the late news, no muggings on that street corner for years is not something that we report. normalcy is very hard to dramatize. >> the hero of the story is patrick sharky that runs the crime lab of new york, and he said that in the 1990s, americans came together, normalized, saw violence as a problem. it's surprising to me that we often talk about negative trends in the world, but it often evokes a positive response. >> that positive response largely was community based. you know, we think about
nations, and then we think about states and cities, but this is a story about saving cities block by block. and then seeing these enormously powerful cycles of virtue. if it becomes easier for you or me to walk from the subway stop to the river, then more people will do it and the more people will do it, and the more people converge positively create their own safety is an enormously positive part of the story. >> is this just a new plateau, or are there indicators that there may be an up tick? >> we can continue to -- and of course it's always impossible to know, that's just a bubble on a genuinely declining vector and what's a new trend that we'll see? that takes decades to decide.
but what we can say with certainty is that over the last three decades, the vector has been dramatic and in the right direction. >> nec on gps, the investigative reporter says that israel has assassinated more people than any other democratic country. he'll crack open the history of israel's targeted assassination program. ♪ we came with big appetites. with expedia, you could book a flight, hotel, car, and activity all in one place. ♪
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we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24/7. we just bundled home and auto and saved money. that's nothing to be afraid of. -but -- -good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] ♪ i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. he's never like this. i think something's going on at school. -[ sighs ] -he's not engaging. assassinate, the oxford
dictionary defines it as murder of an important person for political or religious reasons. we can all conjure up headlines of history. gandy, lincoln, martin luther king, julius caesar. but my next guest chronicles a quieter kind of killing. the investigative recorder has done the most investigation on israel's secret assassinations. it's all in a new book called "rise and kill first, the secret history of israel's targeted assassinati assassinations." ron berger, plaid to have you on. i think the question everybody has is did israel need to have this kind of a lethal policy, targeted assassinations to survive? is this a crucial part of what israel needed to do?
or could it have done without it? >> it's very hard to play counter history, like what if. but i can tell you that israel from day one had to use force. even putting aside the drama of the holocaust, they have had at least one important enemy. yasser arafat that all the jews that came to israel after 1917 should be expelled. saddam hussein who threatened to burn half of israel, these countries and organizations took steps to annihilate israel. the most important jew of the last 1,000 years thought that israel could not sustain long wars, so instead, he established this very strong intelligence community, that could bring pre-emptive attack, that could launch appropriate forces over
enemy lines, or kill an individual north to prolong the time even prevent the next war. >> what are the most interesting thing about the israeli war against the plo? >> are facts are so far are numerous attempts. one of israel's military, he said i watched the movie, the manchurian candidate, i could do the same thing, bring me an arab plo prisoner, and i will send him jason bourne style to assassinate yasser arafat. he was fullyypnotizehypnotized. they have the code words, he was going to kill arafat, he was sure. the guy had the thumb, had the message of a gun, only a few
hours later, israeli intelligence learned that he went straight to one of the police station in jordan and said the stupid jews, they hypnotized me, i'm loyal to arafat, here's the gun, and i want to come and swear allegiance to yasser arafat. >> how difficult was this to do? do you think that israel is surrounded by a sea of arab countries, did not recognize it, were formally at war with it and spoke a language that almost no jew spoke. how was it, to be able to do this, you have to penetrate these arab societies. >> so that's the masters of israeli intelligence, they would be able to recruit agents from the enemy country, offering them money or other benefits. but do that under false identity. mean
meaning -- to work for a nato officer, than for on israeli officer. >> so the israelis would impersonate a nato official to recruit, because the syrian for no amount of money would he be willing to work for israel? >> but here comes a french businessman who says we're competing for a bid in syria for water supply or whatever. so this opens the door for cooperation, not just to get the israelis to manipulate someone, to recruit them, he has to reject everything that's important to him, his family, his company, his organization, but he has to be able to work under cover and under the local authorities in europe or whatever they were operating. >> the thing that i have noticed from talking to the former heads of assad and other senior intelligence officers is -- >> they do talk. >> they do talk very off the
record as you know, is that they are very, as you put it, very uncomfortable, or have grown uncomfortable with their role of the occupation of the west bank and previously gaza, it's one thing to protect israel against it's enemies. you see that movie, "the gate keepers" where you have almost every former israeli intelligence officer saying we should get out of this, we're in favor of a two-state solution. what is the mood now? because israel has effectively involved the problem, with the security and the wall, how do these folks feel now? >> i have done 1,000 interviews for this book and i can tell you that the vast majority of these people, mossad, military intelligence, secret service, they all support the two-state solution, and even more, i think that today in israel, the people
who keep democracy, values of human rights, by far are people from these circles. active and formal. and i think a country, when the mature grown-ups are the intelligence chiefs, where they are the trigger happy, i think such a country has a difficulty. >> i hope prime minister netanyahu reads your book. >> i hope so too, thank you. >> pleasure to have you on. up next, we have a treat for you, jake tapper on her new novel and on the trials and tribulations and trials of covering the trump white house.
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covered every twist and turn of the trump administration. the award was presented at the white house correspondents dinner where trump was not in attendance. he is also author of a new book titled "the hellfire club." it is set in 1950 at the height of mccarthyism. some say autobiographies, you write about what you know. in what sense is this about what you know? >> i think that it is an expression of concerns i have about washington. the hero is a young republican congressman, the eisenhower era, he's a world war ii hero and academic that's kind of thrust into this world, and he and his wife are thrust with a conspiracy. the story is about the martyr the young congressman faces along the way. he wants to be a good
congressman. ept he wants to protect people. little by little, bits of his soul are eroded by the system. that's something i've seen happen. a lot of people come to washington to do good things, and they find themselves immersed in the swamp bit by bit and the next thing they know, they're in over their head. >> what do you think makes all these good people turn bad? is it partially up and downpand voters? >> i think the first thing is money. money really runs washington. people's self-preservation is about getting campaign contributions and about big donations. so that's one. and two, a lot of people go down to washington to do good and then they ultimately end up getting trapped in the system, and all of a sudden there are all these favors they're getting, and all of a sudden their living a lifestyle they're
not used to and then preserving that, holding onto that power becomes more important than why they were sent there. >> you use the title -- th the hellfire club comes from britain? >> you know that, yes. >> do you think that bash wash actu -- washington has a lot of that or is it actually quite staid and tame compared to the rumors of the old hellfire club? >> it is hard to imagine that people can get away with the old buchanal that the 1700s hellfire club experienced. i can't even go into it on the show, but they're really obscene. >> since they had that influence on each other, a deterrence. >> yes, a mutually shared distraction that this member of royalty would do what this
nobleman wanted to do because they both had dirt on each other. that actually happened, as you know. >> have we progressed from that? >> i don't know. i can't imagine there aren't secret societies. i don't know of any. but i can't imagine, especially -- >> washington seems so boring. >> maybe it wouldn't be in washington, maybe it would be to virginia. maybe they drive a couple. or maybe they take a plane to the caribbean to a private island. knowing what we know about powerful, rich men, i can't believe that there isn't something like the hellfire club today. i don't know anything. >> nobody invited you? >> i would never be invited, nor would you. but i don't know of it. this is a fictional book, and in the flight of fancy is that the hellfire club from the 1700s from england is replicated in washington, d.c. in the 1990s. do you think there's something like it? all these rich and powerful men under more scrutiny now than
they have ever been. in the 1950s, it was more scrutiny then than it had ever been. do you think they have anything with no cameras around, et cetera? >> there are people who say after 9/11 the united states overreacted in many ways just as they did in the 1950s. >> joe mccarthy and donald trump stand for very different things. but the techniques of joe mccarthy, the smearing, the disregard for the truth, that's similar. so when i wrote about that phenomenon, there were things that i wrote about with the perspective of 2018. and there's also this factual connective tissue. joe mccarthy's protege, roy kohn. roy kohn's protege, donald trump. he may say this is the swamp that donald trump writes about, and he may be right, too.
>> the degree to which money corrupts politics and lobbying and special interests are all in collusion. it's a pretty sad, cynical view of washington. >> i don't know that it's sad. i would prefer to think of it as a fun and kind of vaguely disgusted view of washington, but i think it expresses a lot of my feelings about washington, about the compromises that one is forced to make. there's also the larger theme of, what does mccarthy want to do to protect america? what compromises is he willing to make? what compromises is president eisenhower willing to make in order to protect america from both the communists and from mccarthyism? so the question of compromises in an evil system or degrading system, that's one that's pervasive. >> jake tapper, pleasure to have you. >> thank you so much, fareed. appreciate it. you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good.
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