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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  May 6, 2018 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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doctor who shares the billionaire's superlative opinion of his own physical specimen. >> it's called genetics. some people have great genes. >> after all, when it comes to medical opinions, president trump certainly had no problem playing doctor for his political opponent hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton does not have the stamina, the energy. doesn't have it. doesn't have the strength to be president. thanks for joining us. "fareed zakaria" starts right now. this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you around the united states and the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show we will go nuclear. the world has come to a crossroads with both iran and north tora. -- north korea. if the iran deal collapses, will we see a nuclear arms race in the middle east?
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>> they restart their nuclear program, they will have bigger problems than they've ever had before. >> i will ask one of the key negotiators of the deal and the former head of israeli intelligence. next, what is kim jong-un thinking? a psychological analysis by the former top korea analyst for the cia. then a good news story from iraq of all places. four years ago the nation was teetering on the edge of collapse. today it has defeated isis and tamm ped down the sectarian problems. also, a co-founder of facebook says america's winner take all economy is leaving people behind. his solution a guaranteed income for america's working class. and he thinks he and his fellow 1%-ers should foot the bill.
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but first, here is my take. president trump has claimed the group of migrants who made their way from central america to the united states symbolizes out-of-control immigration, lawlessness, and violence that is besetting this country. getting more dangerous, caravans coming, he tweeted. this week the migrant caravan that is openly defying our border shows how weak and ineffective u.s. immigration laws are. the facts strongly suggest the opposite. in 2017, according to a u.s. customs and border protection report, illegal cross border migration was at its lowest level on record -- on record. trump, of course, claims this drop is the result of his policies. the president used tough language in his state of the union boasting that his administration had put, quote, more boots on the southern border than at any time in our
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history and cut illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years, end quote. you'll recall this was the state of the union delivered in february of 2013, and the president making that speech was barack obama. the decline in illegal immigration has been a two decade long trend. over that time the number of border patrol apprehensions along the southwest border has dropped by around 80% from 1.6 million in 2000 to 300,000 in 2017. as for the caravan, the more than 1,100 migrants fleeing poverty, gang violence and repression banded together for safety. they're a peaceful group of mostly women and children. many will probably end up living in mexico. a small number applied for asylum in the united states and past admission rates suggest only a quarter of that number will be accepted. that is the reality of this
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supposedly menacing caravan trump conjures up. >> why is he demonizing these destitu destitute, defenseless people? the most likely answer he is searching for a strategy for the upcoming midterm elections looking grim for republicans. they have little to talk about. there is no trillion dollar infrastructure program, the tax law is unpopular, seemed as a giveaway to corporations and the rich. it has not boosted economic growth as promised. health care is now even more complicated given the partial repeal of obamacare. so what is the way out for republicans? clearly they will focus on the cultural anxieties of the american public and nothing embodies as much as immigration. trump has often noted how crucial the border wall is to his base saying the thing they want more than anything is the wall. indeed, polls indicate 81% of
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republicans want the wall to be built. in a midterm in which it is crucial to bring out your most ardent supporters, your base, nothing will work as well as immigration. last week a new study in the national academy of sciences found trump voters in the 2016 election were motivated less by economic anxiety and more by status anxiety. fears of waning power and stat us in a changing america and an earlier prri analysis came to a similar conclusion highlighting the fears about cultural displacement were the key to understanding white working class trump voters. donald trump may not read these academic studies but he clearly understands in his gut what stirs his base and he is determined to inflame these fears regardless of the facts or the effect this will have on the country. for more go to and read my "washington post"
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column this week. let's get started. the atomic clock is ticking, if an atomic clock does tick. president trump has just a handful of days left to decide whether he's going to unilaterally pull out of the nuclear deal with iran. what would it mean if he did? energy secretary under president obama and then secretary of state john kerry were the top u.s. officials in the talks between iran and the world powers. welcome, mr. secretary. >> thank you, fareed. >> the first argument and probably the central argument president trump makes about the iran deal, about why he wants to pull out is the so-called sunset clauses he claimed in the press conference with the nigerian president that in seven years iran can simply start rebuilding a nuclear weapons program.
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is that true? >> no, that's not really correct. the agreement i should first say has two principal pieces. one is for 15 years from 2016 iran is highly constrained in what it can do in the nuclear arena. even more important the deal does not sunset because what was put in place were extraordinary monitoring and verification measures. and so the idea that once some of these nuclear constraints go off that iran is somehow free to run to a nuclear weapons program is just incorrect, number one. well, they have, of course, committed to not pursuing a nuclear weapon in the agreement but, more importantly, before the agreement we had no monitoring and verification measures. now we have extraordinary ones and that is the key. if iran were to restart a nuclear weapons program, i don't think they would be doing it in the open at facilities declared to the international inspectors.
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it would be a covert program as it was before 2004 and it's the agreement that gives the inspectors the tools to look for those suspect sites. >> describe some of the verifications because i was told they feel very comfortable with the level -- the intrusive nature -- for example, i think there will be cameras in the mines where you mine the uranium for 25 years or something like that. >> that is correct. iran is the only country in the world the supply chain will be under monitoring for 25 years. the iaea has made very effective use of the ability supplied in the agreement to use all modern technology, special cameras, special seals and the like. they have tremendous boots on the ground, lots and lots of images, lots of data to analyze in this case.
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so it's extraordinary in many ways. >> the secretary of defense, james mattis, when asked if it was intrusive enough said i've read the deal and it's designed for a country we have assumed in the past has cheated. in other words, it's designed to prevent the very kind of cheating that iran did in the past that prime minister netanyahu, for example, pointed out this week. >> that's right. much has been made of president netanyahu's exposure of these iranian nuclear weapons plans for the period up to 2004. we knew that. the american intelligence committee published in 2005. we went into this agreement in some part because of the previous weapons program. we certainly went into the agreement with the attitude that, shall we say, went beyond president reagan's statement about trust but verify.
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we said don't trust and verify, verify, verify. so that's how that agreement was put together that led to secretary mattis' reaction. on our side it would be a terrible mistake. i think prime minister netanyahu's presentation actually reinforces the need for the agreement because i feel while the presentation did not break new ground in terms of our knowing of there being a weapons program given all the information i would get it will reveal some new people, places, equipment, all of those things need to be run to the ground. iran has put itself by having this exposed in a pretty tough spot. it is the process generated in the agreement that will allow them to be run to the ground and iran will have a lot of
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explaining to do in terms of specifics. there is so much information. if we unilaterally break the agreement we'll give iran a free pass on that. >> what would happen, secretary muniz, if the secretary of state unilaterally pulls out of the agreement? >> one of two things. it will actually relieve pressure on iran in multiple dimensions including the need to respond to these recent israeli discoveries. number two and very serious, this would be an enormous wedge between us and our european allies in particular who have been forthcoming in saying they are willing to work with us on these other issues but it must be in the context of the iran agreement as a foundation for doing the rest of that.
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the european governments are saying that they want to stay with the agreement. on the other hand if the president restores secondary sanctions for doing business in iran, a whole bunch of european countries will have no option, frankly, other than following those sanctions because they could not be cut off from the american market. and i might say that one of the more remarkable results and the coherence that was maintained between the united states and even russia and china. the agreement came a year after russia's ukraine incursion. even then we were able to work together. iranian nuclear weapons.
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they are looking for wedges, they never succeeded in breaking apart this group of six countries. we would just be handing them a victory in a certain sense in that dimension. >> secretary, always a pleasure to have you on. i will ask what massad thought of the presentation this week and whether he thinks the united states should pull out of the deal when we come back. give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. i'll take that. [cheers] 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. new ensure max protein. in two great flavors. new ensure max protein. >> vo: they share one planter. and last season, it was a flowering disaster. this year, they're not messing around. miracle-gro guarantees results with rich potting mix that uses ingredients fresh from the forest...
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♪ most people come to la with big dreams. ♪ we came with big appetites. with expedia, you could book a flight, hotel, car, and activity all in one place. ♪ iran lied. big time. >> that was the key message in president netanyahu's presentation to his people and the world. taking a cue from the tv career of his ally, donald trump. netanyahu played up the drama. >> and here's what we got.
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55,000 pages. another 55,000 files on 183 cds. >> in the aftermath of the announcement most experts agreed there was little new to what the prime minister revealed making the case first in english and only then in hebrew. perhaps he was talking to just one person, the man who will decide by may 12th whether the united states stays in the deal or pulls out. i wanted to get an israeli perspective on the speech and got one from a former head of the israeli intelligence agency and a member of an organization of top israeli retired general who is are concerned about the future of that nation. it is called commanders for israel's security. general, a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you very much, mr. zakaria. >> you are a former general, a
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former military adviser and you studied physics in college. i feel as though you are perfectly qualified to tell me what to think of bebe netanyahu's presentation about the iranian nuclear program. >> i think that we have to be honest and say that the israelis, not only us, but also the americans, those who are inside knew the iranians were cheating, lying and had military nuclear program. it is good for those that do not believe the mossad and others the iranians had it because
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today even after the presentation of mr. netanyahu say, no, we have never had a nuclear program for military purposes. >> when they signed the nuclear deal, the iaea which has inspectors says they have abided by it, u.s. intelligence confirms it. is it your understanding israeli intelligence believes that since 2015, since the signing of the deal iran has abided by the terms of the deal? >> i think the answer is yes. we did not find any evidence that iran breached the deal but there was some information entered between north korea and iran. when you ask yourself what kind
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of corporation it can be or it could be, the only corporation is either corporation in the field of nuclear capabilities and especially military purposes. >> what would your advice be on may 12th? should he adhere to the deal or withdraw? >> i think they should adhere to the deal. even though i agree there are many holes in the deal. this is the opportunity. after what was revealed by us, about all those documents, this is a very good opportunity to get to the iranians and to say, hey, look what we have found. we now have to make amendments and corrections in the deal. >> if the united states walks away from the deal and iran says
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then we don't have to adhere to the deal, isn't that a worse situation for israel because now iran is free to pursue any kind of nuclear program it wants. >> you are 100% right. if the agreement collapses due to the withdrawal of the united states and the withdrawal of iran, it will be the collapse of the agreement. instead of being in an ordinary place we'll be in a jungle. everybody will do whatever he understands. the iranians may come to where they were left before the agreement. and this is to continue and to achieve in something like a nuclear bomb. >> let me ask you about another issue very close to your heart. you are part of this group of almost 300 israeli generals, former generals from mossad, from the armed forces.
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what is the driving passion here? >> we have many concerns about the future of the state of israel. we want israel to exist forever as the only jewish and democratic state. if there will not be a two state solution that we are promoting and the prime minister does not promote and his government does not promote, we might find ourselves in a much worse situation where the world will come to rivals and say we are fed of this struggle. you cannot find a way to live together side by side, let's have one state.
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one state to the two peoples, it means the end of the democratic state because you can preserve israel as jewish and democratic only, the majority of the population is jewish. this is not the situation even not today. so it is debt construction of the state of israel. >> thank you very much. >> next on "gps," kim jong-un in conversation. the world had the opportunity to hear from him like that for the first time at last week's historic summit. what did it reveal about north korea's leader, and what else do we really know about him? i will talk to the cia's former career analyst. if you miss a show go to
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at last week's summit in the dmz the world saw and heard kim jong-un like they had never seen him before. my next guest was a senior analyst on korea issues at the cia. last sunday she told me that all this new information about kim would be a boone for western intelligence agencies. we heard from many viewers who wanted to know more. what did we learn about kim jong-un and what should donald trump know about the man he might sit across the table from? so she's back to answer those questions and more. a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. >> first, explain to people what a black box this is. this is a guy whose father, for example, we barely ever heard his voice. we still don't know how old kim jong-un exactly is. describe the sort of weird world we live in. >> when kim jong-un came into power we knew little of him. there's one 11-year-old photo,
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black and white, that's been circulating around and that was it. he was educated in switzerland. very, very little. there's some anecdotal information we got from a former chef. things like that. we knew very little. for the last six years until recently, kim jong-un has not met with anybody, so there was very little information until very recent months. >> and now you look at that summit and you saw him conversationally chatting. what was most striking to you about the man you saw? >> he seemed like his grandfather. he was very charming. his body language is very warm and affectionate. he's laughing a lot. he's touching people. he's drinking. he's partying. he's having very conversation at skills, not stiff and wooden. we've been hearing he's a decisive, bold person. this is something we need to expect. i think he can be quite charming in person.
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and if he sits down with president trump, maybe they will hit it off in terms of chemistry and rapport. >> he was clearly good at the symbolism. he held the president of south korea's hand. he walked across -- >> yes. >> he understood the theater of it all. >> oh, yes. i think the moment was very, very interesting because he came to the south side and then he brought president moon back to the north side. everybody spontaneously clapped. i don't know if it was planned or a spontaneous action. he shows he has a sense of humor. he can read people and read the environment. i think it will be quite interesting when he sits down with president trump. >> and yet this is the man who had his uncle executed in a football stadium with antiaircraft guns who had his half-brother assassinated using a deadly poison. >> absolutely. how soon do we forget this. this is a year and a half ago he killed his half-brother, or assassinated him. he killed over 300 senior folks.
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he purged folks like somebody fell asleep while he was speaking. he has a short fuse and a little bit of a temper -- i would say a lot of temper. it's really going to be interesting but he has both sides. he's obviously a very ruthless person. we all know that. but he's also decisive and bold and he can be charming one-on-one. so it will be interesting to see. >> it seems to me it's all very strategic. he was very tough executing people when he was trying to send a signal to the chinese, don't try to replace me. don't even think of a coup. that's why he gets rid of the brother who could replace him, the uncle who was close to the chinese. >> yes. >> now he's decided he's built up the program, he's charming. it seems people always wondered is he rational or irrational. this seems smart. >> to me he's very rational. i thought he was rational.
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he's shrewd and astute. how strategic is he? did he think this through all the way? did he always intend after he completed his program, nuclear program, 90%, 95% done, he was going to turn to diplomacy and sit down with president trump? or was it maximum pressure and sanctions and he just decide this had a fed this a few months ago. a tactical decision what type of leader he will turn out to be. >> they have been developing a nuclear program for 25 years. this is a kind of deep national ambition they've had. do you imagine he has the power and he has the intention to actually give that all up and literally go down to the ground, go down to iran-like state where they're in a completely nonweapon program? >> i think he has the power. in north korea, whatever he says is the word. as chairman kim. he has the power. whether he has that intention to
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completely verifiably, irreversibly stop his program, i doubt that. he will pretend or act like he will. i think that's different whether he will truly give it up. i have my skepticism. i'm very doubtful. >> a pleasure as always. >> thank you for having me on. >> next on "gps" some good news about the middle east. it is about iraq. yes, iraq. really striking what has happened there in the past two years. ♪
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now for our "what in the world segment." the middle east is getting ever more tense if that's possible as the iran deal teeters, israel ramps up the pressure and the civil war continues in sarah and yemen. there is one underreported piece of good news coming out of the region. iraq will undertake its fifth general election since the fall of saddam hussein on saturday and he does so with an unprecedented undertone of stability and even optimism. four years ago things looked bleak. they faced existential crises. isis held a third of iraq's territory, sectarian tensions waged, the kurds appeared ready to secede and the price of oil was beginning to plummet. around that time former u.s. officials were pretty candid with me about the country's weaknesses.
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>> iraq doesn't exist except for lines on the map. >> we can't put the country together. >> perhaps we can't but there is evidence they can. a fascinating new report out from new america points at the bright spots, none more dramatic than the defeat of isis which prime minister al abadi announced in december. they were able to beat back isis in the sunni heartland with fewer atrocities than happened in the past. all of this had a restorative effect on the psyche. the defining weakness is the divide between shiite-arabs, sunni-arabs and kurds. there is a striking sense of optimism among sunnis alienated ever since the 2003 invasion and the subsequent rise of the shiite majority. in 2014 then prime minister al maliki held a 5% approval rating among sunni-arabs including to a
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baghdad-based poll. by last year things had changed drastically. abadi held a 71% approval rating, an astounding number. it's not just the prime minister. the iraqi army has the approval of 71% up in 2014, the new america report notes. you see abadi has done something maliki never did, peace and inclusion to the sunnis and the kurds. but he's also capable of carrying a big stick. last fall the kurds overwhelmingly voted for independence in a long-awaited referendum. baghdad's punishment rained down swiftly. it retook installations and blocked flights to kurdish airports. but then abadi's government commenced months of fevered negotiations with the kurds, finally agrowing to pay half of kurdish officials' salaries
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effectively ending the standoff, "the new york times" reported. now even some kurdish politicians sound positively conciliatory. i don't mean to overstate where iraq is. it still suffers from widespread corruption, and it is in desperate need of economic reforms. and if the forces committed to dividing a fractiously stitched together country this relative calm could be lost easily. but the way iraq is remains quite extraordinary when you think about how far it has come. what has really changed in recent years leaders of all stripes have started to buy into the political system rather than trying to destroy it. and it's not a coincidence that isis fell in this context. democracy, a functioning democracy, is the most effective rebuttal to the silent song of the jihadists. george w. bush always justified the invasion of iraq by saying this would be its ultimate payoff. >> everywhere that freedom takes
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hold, terror will retreat. >> now we do not need to relitigate the iraq war and its terrible, tragic price to still conclude that on this point the benefits of democracy, george w. bush might well be right. up next, chris hughes grew up in appalachia and then made half a billion dollars for three years of work at what was then a startup. now he wants a policy to help people who are not as lucky as he was. a fascinating and controversial idea when we come back. behr marquee presents: it's got potential. -i think it'll look really good without the stripes. whatever your home may hand you, behr through it, in one coat. behr marquee, #1 rated interior paint.
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for the past two years the world economic forum has put wealth inequality at the top of its list of global risks and the statistics surround that go are striking. credit suisse says the global 1% holds half of the world's wealth. and here in america the three richest men have the same amount of wealth as the entire bottom 50% of the population. it leads to serious economic problems but political ones as well. what to do? my next guest is a 1 percenter or 0.1 percenter who grew up differently and is putting his money and mouth behind a novel solution. facebook co-founder chris hughes has a new book called "fair shot: rethinking inequality and how we earn." chris, thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> you start the book by talking about how you grew up which is very different circumstances than you're in now.
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>> i grew up in a town in hickory, north carolina, the foothills of the appalachian mountains. my mom was a public schoolteacher. my dad was a traveling paper salesman. we grew up pretty much middle class as they come. we went to church almost every sunday and weekends were spent doing housework. my parents worked hard to make ends meet. i got a scholarship to go to a fancy boarding school and then on to harvard. roomed with mark zuckerberg. the rise has been well documented, and my life dramatically changed. i went from being part of the middle class to very much part of the 1%. specifically in the book i talk about how i made $3 billion for half a year's worth of work. there's nothing else to call it but a lucky break. and in the years after that i
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started to think my story is extreme. not everybody is a roommate of mark zuckerberg, et cetera. and i realized over time, though, while my case might be extreme, it's not that uncommon. a small group of people in our economy is getting incredibly wealthy at the same time as everybody else is working just as hard as they have historically and can't make ends meet a. guaranteed income of $500 a month for working americans making less than $50,000 is actually the most powerful thing we can view to not just combat inequality but restore the american dream. >> the argument against the proposal you're putting forward it is a disincentive for people to work. if you're telling people you're going to get a guaranteed income, won't people just -- won't it reduce the incentive to go out and get work? and there's something meaningful about a job that's not just about money, it's a sense of purpose and dignity.
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>> i make the case in the book jobs have changed in the united states. we need to create an income floor to stabilize them. whether the rise of the robots happen, if self-driving cars come or don't come, working people need basic financial stability. the people out there i talk to, the vast majority of americans want to work. people find purpose in it, meaning in it, and it's something i've heard on the road, the kind of people i grew up with, something people share in common. there's this myth of young guys who just want to put up their feet and play video games or the mythological welfare queen. i think those are myths that we create in order to propulgate stories and divide and not think what's happening in our country. i do think if you're working and you make less than 50k, a guaranteed income of $500 a
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month -- so if you are married, each person would get $500 a month would stabilize your financial life. >> but you have to work. >> the evidence shows that people work just as much after getting the money as before. >> the other argument is this will explode the budget deficit, what you're describing is a very expensive program. >> there's no two ways about it. it's very expensive. some who say we should go even bigger. some say we should go smaller. what i think is ream is $500 a month for people making less than $50,000. that would be an additional $3 billion to the federal deficit which is very meaningful but it is doable. the way i recommend we pay for it is bringing rates on income of $250,000 into line with the historical averages, about 50%. the most egregious tax holes in
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the code. to give a cscale, it's estimate to cost between $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion. what i'm talking about after you factor in economic growth would cost more or less the same. a little bit more. more or less the same. anybody who says to me this is too big of an idea, if it's not too big of an idea to cut rates on corporations and the 1%, then it shouldn't be too big of an idea to provide real economic opportunity to the people who need it most. >> when you go back to appalachia, do they look at you because of the boarding school in harvard and the education, do they think you are a different person? >> my story is different from theirs. i still feel a connection to north carolina, to my parents, to the family i still have -- they're the people i grew up with going to baseball games, hanging out after church with,
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public dinners. all the stuff that is a part of growing up. there's a connection there that i imagine for most people is enduring but a sense my life has taken a very different course and it does make me different. with that privilege comes a sense of responsibility because that is deeply tied in to the same value set with many of the people i grew up with. >> chris hughes, a pleasure to have you. ur seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands?
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to keep our community safe. before you do any project big or small, pg&e will come out and mark your gas and electric lines so you don't hit them when you dig. call 811 before you dig, and make sure that you and your neighbors are safe. separation of church and state can be a contentious issue in multicultural democracies and it brings me to my question.
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which regional government ordered all its public buildings to display christian crosses at their entrances? spain's galec spain's. stay tuned. chris hughes' "fair shot." hughes told us the story of how he became a half billionaire and described the winner takes all economy in which we live. "fair shot" is his take on stopping runaway inequality. it's personal, intelligent, very well written and moves along briskly. do get the short, fascinating brief. the answer to my "gps" challenge question is, "d," all public buildings under the authority of the german state of bavaria will be required to display a christian cross at the entrances beginning on june 1st. the newly elected head of the
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state government tweeted that the crosses represent bavarian identity and christian values. opposition politicians were quick to criticize the move as pandering to right-wing voters ahead of upcoming elections. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. it's time to say enough is enough. this is "reliable sources." a look at the story behind the story and how the media really works and how the news gets made this hour a rare interview with a former trump aide who sat down with the special counsel. we'll find out what he lerarned and what he wants the president to know. new revelations cbs managers were warned about charlie rose's behavior. one of his accusers is here for her very first tv interview. and later we're heading to kabul where world press freedom day was absolutely trajics. ten journalists killed in afghanistan this week. we'll talk with