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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  May 17, 2018 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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perhaps, in the armenians who have been deprived of the experience of living in armenia or growing up in armenia. >> tune in for "parts unknown: armenia" sunday night at 9:00 on cnn. thanks for watching "360." time for don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is cnn breaking news. >> this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. breaking news, we're learning tonight that president trump may be closer to sitting down for an interview with robert mueller's team. rudy giuliani is telling pbs the president's lawyers and mueller's investigators have been working to narrow the scope of questions. but giuliani wouldn't go to far as to say it is a done deal. that's as politico reports that the team trump -- that team trump will hold a series of prep sessions this summer to get the president ready for a potential interview.
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more on that in just a moment. we're also learning about a new plea deal tonight. paul manafort's former son-in-law reached a plea agreement with the u.s. attorney's office in los angeles over real estate deals. sources tell cnn he'll be required to cooperate with other investigators and it comes as we mark one year since special counsel robert mueller began investigating russia's interference in the 2016 election. president trump today sarcastically tweeting "congratulations, america" and as he has tweeted 41 times over the past year, calling the investigation a witch hunt. a baseless charge the president returns to every chance he gets. >> it's a total witch hunt. i've been saying it for a long time. they have this witch hunt. they have this witch hunt. it's a witch hunt. that's all it is. they have phony witch hunts. it's like a witch hunt. it's like a witch hunt. witch hunt continues. entire thing has been a witch hunt. this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> the mueller investigation isn't a witch hunt no matter how many times the president says
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it. it's a search for the fact. let's look at the fact the. special counsel robert mueller has brought charges against 19 people and 3 companies. those charged include a former white house adviser, three former trump campaign aides, including the campaign chairman at the time. prominent russian oligarch and a dozen kremlin-backed trolls. in all, they face a combined 75 criminal charges ranging from conspiracy to bank fraud and tax violations. to lying to the fbi. five of those defendants have pleaded guilty including fired national security adviser michael flynn and former trump campaign aide rick gates. both are cooperating with mueller. dutch lawyer alex van der zwaan who pleaded guilty to lying to the special counsel is behind bars serving a 30-day sentence. former campaign chairman paul manafort is fighting mueller's charges in court. at least 40 people have voluntarily given interviews to mueller's investigators.
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at least seven people are known to have testified to a grand jury. though that number is probably much higher because the proceedings are secret. all of that in the first year. not a witch hunt. let's get right now to more breaking news. the "washington post" is reporting tonight the president and his allies are waging a campaign to expose a top-secret fbi source. cnn political analyst josh dawsey helped break the story. josh, this is new reporting and is very interesting. just published in the "washington post" about the origin this claim the president and his lawyer, rudy giuliani, are making about a spy in the campaign. what more can you tell us about this claim? >> right, so the president was pretty vociferous this morning in saying that he, a spy was embedded in the trump campaign. you know, the facts obviously are a little bit more nuanced and complicated as they often are. what we've reported is that there was an fbi source who, you know, worked before and after the beginning of the mueller probe, obviously, to provide information to the fbi and the cia, and those -- that source is
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a target of the right, folks like mark meadows in our story, jim jordan, devin nunes, are really looking to expose more information about how the probes began, the scope of the investigation, and trying to say that, you know, the probe in its infancy was not a legitimate one. obviously mueller's team and law enforcement officials feel far differently. what we've seen, don, in a tug-of-war struggle between law enforcement officials, obviously, the executive branch, headed by the president, and the congressional allies, you know, of the president on the right who are pushing doj and the fbi to reveal far more information about the investigation, information that doj and fbi officials say they're not comfortable reviewing. they're fearful it will leak out. in fact, in our story tonight,
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we reported they've already taken steps to protect the source because they're afraid the identity of the person will be revealed and it could be jeopardized. >> okay. let me read a portion of your piece, josh, that, again, just published in the "washington post." it says, "the extraordinary push begun by a cadre of trump boosters on capitol hill now has champions across the gop and throughout conservative media and as of thursday, first anniversary of robert s. mueller iii. the dispute pits trump against the justice department and intelligence agencies whose leaders warn that publicly identifying the confidential source would put lives in danger and imperil other operations." josh, is this push about an informant or spy taking the same pathway through capitol hill that nunes and the right wing media and so-called secret society did earlier this year? >> well, it's hard to know, and here's the core of it, don, the
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right has leveled criticism against this investigation, you know, trying to cast it as, you know, beyond its skis, far more about the russian meddling, and the criticisms have really been amplified by a president who in your montage earlier has said repeatedly this is a witch hunt. so what doj and fbi officials are telling us is we use confidential anonymous sources, we use people to help inform our investigation. we are not necessarily comfortable disclosing all of underbelly of this investigation at this point in time for fear of compromising our sources. republicans who are allied with the president and the president are saying, don, is that, you know, this has gone on for a year, we think this is far of what it should have been and we really want to expose what we see as wrongdoing by the fbi and doj. my view, none of that has been
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proven at this point. the wrongdoing. mark meadows, caucus, a big trump ally, and devin nunes and jeff jordan on the right saying are we want to try to get more documents to, you know, find if there was any improper activity by the doj and fbi. and that's something the president obviously supports. we've seen his repeated tweets saying that he thinks this investigation, you know, is led by democrats, mueller's biased, that other fbi doj officials have conspired against them. some of those claims obviously are not based on reality. but he is obviously aligned with these folks on the right who are every day going after the credibility of this investigation. >> josh dawsey with the new reporting, the breaking news from the "washington post." and josh, thank you very much, i'll say it again, president trump's allies are waging an increasingly aggressive campaign to undercut the russia
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investigation by exposing the role of a top-secret fbi source. again, our thanks to josh. i want to bring in now cnn white house correspondent kaitlan collins, cnn political analyst ryan lizza, and cnn legal analyst laura coates. good evening to all of you. ryan, first of all, what's your reaction coming on the anniversary of mueller's investigation? >> to dawsey's report? >> yeah. >> well, the first thing to say, if i read the reporting correctly, this informant met with papadopoulos and carter page when they were no longer part of the trump campaign. so the idea that the fbi surveilled the campaign is obviously a little overwrought and from "the new york times'" reporting, in fact, the fbi was so skittish and worried about the politics of this investigation that they -- they weren't as aggressive as some people at the fbi wanted them to be. so having an informant meet with page and papadopoulos who had these suspected ties to russian intelligence, you know, seems like pretty normal police work to me. the fact that the trump -- the
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white house is now calling this surveilling their campaign does not -- is incredible. >> as you said, it's a bit overwrought and someone we spoke to who is in law enforcement, a former fbi -- not that we spoke to, the "washington post" did, said investigating people isn't the same as investigating the trump campaign any more than investigating an executive at a fortune 500 company in connection with embezzlement is an investigation of that company. >> don, just one -- >> that's a fair distinction. >> one quick addition, remember, up until now, trump and most people have been saying carter page and papadopoulos were coffee runners who had very little to do with the campaign. >> yeah, so, then there you go, now they're saying they're concerned about the seriousness of these allegations. laura, why would an informant, laura, be involved here and would that mean there was at
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least some evidence of suspicion of some real wrongdoing? >> there are extremely strict and established guidelines about what it takes to be an fbi informant. not just a matter of somebody saying, hey, come here, meet me by the water cooler. there are guidelines about how to handle them, penalties to the agents who mishandle them. there are requirements that the information they provide be credible, it be checked, it be substantiated in some way to that person actually is a credible source of information and it's very different than simply a cooperator, a term we often use and hear about people like rick gates or other people who -- or michael flynn, cooperating with the mueller investigation. if there is somebody who they have in a position, there's been a hurdle they had to overcome to get that person that title and there is a vested interest in their protection, a cooperator ultimately testifies at a trial normally in order to get the person to be convicted. an informant, somebody who's
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confidential in that respect, their identity is never to be known because they're uniquely positioned, point in the actual, where they are. so this will be a second time that you'll see in as many days that christopher wray, the head of the fbi who already said it was not a witch hunt, will likely be at odds with the president of the united states and any quest to try to reveal the identity of somebody who's a confidential informant. >> yeah, i need to get to kaitlan. quickly, laura, an informant is not illegal. >> no, absolutely not. you can have an informant that provides information because of the position they're in. it's not a equipment in and of itself, at all. >> then tonight rudy giuliani was on fox news saying trump precisely explained why he fired comey to lester holt. here he is tonight. >> every explanation that they need is already given by president trump in interviews. how about the lester holt interview when he explained precisely why he fired comey? for a non corrupt reason. by the way, he didn't have to have a reason for firing comey
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and everything we've learned since then is my goodness, he should have fired him earlier. >> yeah. isn't that the problem? that there have been multiple explanations -- he said in that interview he fired him because of russia. >> exactly. and that was the first time we had learned that that was obviously suspected, don. as you recall, before that, for 48 hours the white house maintained the reason the president fired him is because of a recommendation from the attorney general jeff sessions and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. watching giuliani there in that interview, i watched it live earlier, is like watching him coach the president ahead of a potential interview with robert mueller, teaching him what it would be like to say, we were watching a prep session essentially in realtime. you see giuliani sending a certain message, going out, defending the president, also sending certain messages to the president, even some about jeff sessions, himself, in relation to this suspected informant that the president is tweeting about. of course, don, for a long time, the president has suspected that
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there are people in law enforcement who are working actively to undermine him and we've seen this constant fight where the president is pitted against the doj and this seems more likely to increase it. you could essentially set your timer now that the president will likely tweet about jeff sessions in relation to all of this sometime soon after seeing what giuliani said during that interview. >> ryan, here's what he originally told lester holt. here it is. >> regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey knowing there was no good time to do it, and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> what's your reaction, ryan? >> well, of course, that was the second excuse. remember, the official reason that he fired comey originally
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was memorialized in a memo and that was released by the white house was that he didn't like the way that comey handled the clinton investigation. you know, essentially he felt that comey was too mean to hillary clinton and didn't give her a fair shake. that was laughable at the time. we all knee that that's not what donald trump thought. and, i mean, what is so astonishing about this whole set of stories tonight is, you know, he's saying out loud the things that other president -- that led to, you know, an article of impeachment against nixon, like if you go back and look at what the judiciary committee, when they wrote up articles of impeachment against nixon, one of the issues was interfering with a proper investigation at the justice department. trump does it in realtime. i mean, this "washington post" story tonight, they are talking about outing a government informant, his own fbi's informant. in the lester holt thing you just showed, he said
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straight-up, i fired the guy investigating me because i didn't like the investigation. it was about russia. so i think what's so hard to wrap our head around, why it's so hard to wrap our heads around this is he blurts out the parts that are basically incriminating and he sort of normalized a kind of behavior that for previous presidents was completely out of bounds and literally in the case of nixon had congress writing up an article of impeachment. >> yep. well, jedi mind tricks. jedi mind tricks. laura coates, kaitlan collins, thank you very much. ryan lizza, stick around. when we come back, why the president says the summit with kim jong-un is still on. and why he is contradicting his own national security adviser. ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth ♪ uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget!
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welcome back, ryan. and max, welcome to the program. i want to ask you, i want to get your reaction to this new "washington post" reporting that says the president and his allies are waging an increasingly aggressive campaign to undercut the russia investigation by exposing the role of a top-secret fbi source. that is a campaign, they're waging an effort to do that. what do you think? >> well, it would be shocking coming from any other administration or from any other congress other than this one, but of course, with this one, we just -- we're kind of used to the fact that trump and his allies, devin nunes and all the rest are mounting a full-throated assault on the rule of law, undermining the department of justice, undermining the fbi in ways that are just shocking. but, again, it's become the new normal and it should not be the new normal. we should not accept this, but we're used to by now, unfortunately. >> yeah, it seems like every night there's breaking news where one of the trump surrogates if it's not rudy
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giuliani, it's someone else making news by floating these -- >> all these so-called law and order republicans who spent share careers castigating democrats for being anti-police, and they're spending their days trashing the fbi. >> yeah. let's talk -- go on. >> don, before the break i mentioned how similar what's going on with trump and the report in the "washington post." reminds me of the first article of impeachment drawn up against nixon. this is from the impeachment, the judiciary -- excuse me, the article of impeachment the judiciary committee of congress drew up against richard nixon. interfering or endeavoring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the department of justice of the united states, the federal bureau of investigation, or the office of watergate special prosecution force and congressional committees. does that sound familiar in the -- >> sounds like this. >> right? they put that in an article of impeachment. they thought it was so serious. this is -- these things happen on a daily basis right now with this president. >> yeah. you're exactly right.
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i need to move on. i have many more -- couple more topics i want to talk to you guys about. one is north korea because trump is still meeting on planning with kim jong-un next month. next month. and despite that north korea's recent threat to pull out. i want to get your take on the president contradicting his national security adviser john bolton who said libya could serve as a model for denuclearization. here it is. >> the model, if you look at that model with gadhafi, that was a total decimation. we went in there to beat him. now, that model would take place if we don't make a deal, most likely, but if we make a deal, i think kim jong-un is going to be very, very happy. i really believe he's going to be very happy. >> max, what is he talking about? >> that's a great question, don. it's actually frightening that the president of the united states does not know what the hell he's talking about because he's talking about the libya model being the overthrow of gadhafi in 2011. when people talked about the
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libya model, when john bolton talks about the libya model, what he's actually talking about is the fact in 2003, gadhafi agreed to give up his weapons of mass destruction so trump is basically confused on a very fundamental matter which makes you wonder, like, does he understand anything else that's going on? the other conclusion, by the way, i take away from this, is that donald trump prefers alfred nobel to john bolton because essentially the message from north korea, i believe that they sent just a few days ago, was to donald trump to say, hey, if you want your nobel peace prize, you got to throw john bolton under the bus, you can't stick with him and the very tough demands he's putting out there and today donald trump basically said, that's, don't worry about bolton, i was the peace prize. that was the message that i got from his remarks. >> why would anyone around him, ryan, or max, why would anyone around him allow him to go out and make these statements that make him seem that he is unaware or uninformed? >> how can they stop him? he's the president of the united
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states. he doesn't read his briefing papers. how can they stop him? >> i'm maybe a tad more sympathetic to trump on this one. i think in his very convoluted way, what he's trying to get at here is, you know, it's commonly pointed out that if someone like -- if the north koreans are looking around the world at other examples of countries giving up their nuclear weapons, it's not a pretty story, right? iraq gave up its nuclear and all its weapons of mass destruction and what happened to saddam hussein? right? libya, gadhafi got a little bit scared about what happened in iraq. he decided to enter into a deal with the west, gave up his weapons. not much longer, he was overthrown. so i think what trump in his convoluted way is trying to say he understands that history and wants as part of this deal to give the north korean leadership basically a guarantee that that dictatorship will stay in power. correct me if i'm wrong, max, i think that's what he's getting
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at. that opens up a whole other series of moral questions. >> your guess is as good as -- >> i was going to say. if he meant that, why didn't -- ryan lizza for president. that's what that means. >> i think that's what he's talking about. some kind of security guarantee. >> i get you. max, listen, you put out this tweet earlier. you said, "if trump isn't going to insist on libya's style of disarmament for north korea, does that mean he'll settle for an iran-style deal like the one he just trashed?" what's the answer to that question? >> nobody knows. that's the obvious question when he's saying i reject the libya-style disarmament that john bolton wants which is complete instant verifiable disarmament with no rewards up front so anything less than that you're getting to the territory of the iranian nuclear deal. he claimed that was inadequate. did not deal with other issues
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like the ballistic missile programs and all these other things. so these are kind of the two models that are out there. you got the libya model and the iran deal. okay. he's rejecting the libya model, but he's already rejected the iran model, too, so this is utterly incoherent. >> all right. thank you, ryan, thank you, max. when we come back, the fight between the president and the intel community goes all the way back to the trump tower briefing on the infamous dossier with three intelligence chiefs. james clapper was there. i'm going to ask him about what he thinks where the mueller investigation stands now. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪
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now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. president trump marking the one-year anniversary of robert mueller's russia investigation by calling it as he so often does the greatest witch hunt in american history. it isn't. i want to bring in now cnn national security analyst james clapper to weigh in. he is the former director of national intelligence. good evening, sir. director clapper, it has been one year since the mueller investigation started. take a look at this chart. 75 criminal charges. 22 companies and people charged. five guilty pleas. one person sentenced. is this more than you expected in one year? >> yes, don, it is.
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i think for an investigation that is as young as it is, one year, this has been very, very productive and i personally don't think it's anywhere near done, as much as the president might want it to be. i think there's more to come. i always try to always try to remind myself that whatever we're aware of out here in the open, that special counsel mueller and his team know a lot more. >> so, i want to put this up because the president and his team say that a year is enough, and mueller needs to wrap it up. check this out. this is based on the history of the special counsel investigation, and if you look at this chart, it shows that one year is nothing. look at the russia probe, okay, that's one year. you look at valerie plame, three years. if you look at watergate, four years. look at the number of convictions. iran-contra went on for almost seven years. whitewater went on for seven years with 16 convictions. i mean, one year is is not a
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long time. so do you think mueller is just getting started? >> i do. as i say, for an investigation as young as this one, i think they made a lot of progress and they have -- and it's been very productive. >> so what's with the rush then? what's with people saying, hey, a year's enough, we need to move on, there's nothing going on here? then you look at all the people who have been convicted and look at the time other investigations took. >> i think anybody that's in the orb here around whom this investigation may be closing in would certainly like to get it over with. that's quite understandable, but in the larger scheme of things i think they got a long way to go and knowing bob mueller as i do, i think he's going to continue to be more methodical and meticulous as he moves forward. >> yeah. you would have some insight on this because this whole battle between the president and the intelligence community arguably
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started when you, james comey, and then-cia director john brennan, when you went to brief trump about that infamous dossier before the inauguration. did you ever think, did you ever think that we'd end up here? >> no, i didn't, and i was quite heartened by the senate intelligence committee hearing yesterday which john brennan and admiral mike rogers and i attended. jim comey was traveling otherwise he would have been there, in which the committee informed us that their bipartisan finding was to validate the findings of our intelligence community assessment of 16 months ago to include the fact that the russians were attempting to help trump win the election. and importantly, validated the soundness and integrity of our analytic trade craft. that set off, i think, was kind of the catalyst for a whole series of sequence of events to include, importantly, the special counsel investigation. >> yeah, director, here's what the president tweeted this morning. he said, "wow, word seems to be coming out that the obama fbi spied on the trump campaign with an embedded informant.
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andrew mccarthy says there's probably no doubt that they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign. if so, this is bigger than watergate." that is an extraordinary claim. based on your experience, what is the likelihood that it's true? >> well, i think it's -- this is hyperbole. they may have had someone who was talking to them in the campaign, but, you know, the focus here, and as it was with the intelligence community, is not on the campaign, per se, but what the russians were doing to try to substantiate themselves in the campaign or influence or leverage it. so if there was someone that was observing that sort of thing, that's a good thing because the russians pose a threat to the very basis of our political system. and i think it's hugely
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dangerous if someone like that is exposed because the danger to that person, not to mention, the reluctance of others to be informants for the fbi, and the fbi gains a lot of valuable information from informants, so to me, this is incredible. >> director clapper, thank you, always a pleasure. >> thanks, don. when we come back, a lawyer caught on camera making vile racist threats to people in a new york restaurant simply for speaking spanish in public. turns out he has done this kind of thing before. we're going to hear from some of the people who have been on the receiving end of his tirades. that's next.
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i thought after sandy hook,
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where 20 six and seven year olds were slain, this would never happen again. it has happened more than 200 times in 5 years. dianne feinstein and a new generation are leading the fight to pass a new assault weapons ban. say no to the nra and yes to common-sense gun laws. california values senator dianne feinstein i want you to sit back and watch this, because if you haven't seen this on social media, you need to watch this now. okay? it's important. a new york city lawyer launched a shocking racist rant at customers and employees in a restaurant all because they were
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speaking spanish. the whole tirade was caught on camera and it has gone viral. it is ugly, but it's not the first time he has aggressively confronted strangers this way. cnn's polo sandoval is here. he has the story. >> yeah, don, the conversation of race in america happening again. this time this racist rant taking place here in new york, when it's one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world. >> you have nothing to say for yourself. >> reporter: aaron schlossberg dodging cameras today. the new york attorney avoiding questions about his racist tirade inside a manhattan restaurant this week. >> your staff is speaking spanish to customers -- every person i listen to, he's spoken, she's speaking it. it's america. >> reporter: emily serrano shot and shared the viral video. >> i think the ultimate goal here was to expose him and make him aware of how wrong what he did was. >> reporter: the new york native says schlossberg berated her and the restaurant employees accusing them of being undocumented and threatened to call immigration authorities on them. >> i'm calling i.c.e. >> reporter: started it all according to serrano, english wasn't being spoken.
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>> simply because a customer in front of him ordered in spanish then he heard myself, my best friend, speaking to the gentleman making our food also speaking in spanish and it just set him off. >> reporter: this is not the first schlossberg appearance in a controversial video. here he is in 2017 shouting at ultra-orthodox jews who were protesting against the state of israel. then there's this encounter with a stranger in 2016. >> what country are you from? >> who are you? >> i'm going to call the police. you can't run into people. i'm a citizen here, you're not. you're an ugly [ bleep ] foreigner. >> reporter: that so-called foreigner was new yorker willie morris, born in massachusetts. he's speaking out again hoping this latest incident renews the conversation about race and bigotry in america. >> some people may wonder why do we give this individual a platform, why put this person on
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tv or on a youtube channel? >> yeah, you know what, i struggle with that, too, do i even want to share this out because do we give him more airtime? but you have to call out those wrongs when they happen in order to address it, right? >> reporter: what little we know about aaron schlossberg can be found on his law firm's website. he's a commercial and business attorney offering services in multiple languages including spanish. tonight we've learned schlossberg no longer has a place to practice. the landlord of the office space he leased in manhattan has evicted the attorney. meanwhile, representative adriano espaillat of new york filed a formal complaint against schlossberg saying xenophobic and racist -- the question is will he be allowed to practice? >> good question. thank you, polo. joining me is isaac saul, witnessed one of aaron schlossberg's ugly tirades. you had a run-in with him at a protest outside your office. let's take a look and we'll talk. >> [ bleep ].
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>> you are not a jew. >> are you a jew? >> so he's saying there, you are not a jew. he's screaming expletives. you shot this video. tell us about the encounter. what happened? >> yes, linda sarsour was going to speak at a community commencement ceremony and there was a protest outside my office about her speaking. pamela geller was there, milo yiannopoulos was there. they were speaking. across the street were a group controversial in their own right, they're pro-palestine and anti-zionist jews. i was interviewing one of the jews there. he started berating them, telling them they were fake jews, telling them to "f" off. i had my camera up. i said are you jewish? he said, i am. he said something like i've been to israel twice.
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i said, you don't think these guys are real jews? who are, like, they're orthodox jews? he said, no, they're faking it. >> you mentioned, you said they were trump supporters, saw some of the "make america great again" hats. do you think the current political climate is contributing to this? >> it's hard to say. i think obviously the president's rhetoric and the effect it has on how people might treat immigrants across the country is an important conversation to have. my reporting is much more focused on what he did and the fact this was sat game guy who showed up in the fresh kitchen viral video. but i think certainly that it's important to talk about, you know, when the leader of the
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free world says things that are kind of disparaging about immigrants that has an effect on how people treat them. >> so when you see this and a lot of people are shocked by it, we're seeing a lot of it because of these, because of the phones. >> yeah. >> you experienced firsthand, saw that the guy who's a new yorker, born in boston, on the street, the video of him. people don't believe this happens to minorities or immigrants or to people of color. what do you say to those folks? >> you know, when i saw this video yesterday morning, i recognized the guy immediately because his face and just kind of how incensed he was at this protest really stuck with me. and i can say for certain, from just seeing that video, and seeing, you know, the encounter he had with this guy from massachusetts you mentioned that, you know, i mean, it's clear, it's anecdotal, of course, it's one person but it's obvious to me this is happening in new york city, this is a guy who i guess apparently passed the bar in new york. he's a lawyer. and he is, you know, full of this anger. so i think it's pretty scary. and i think, obviously, other people have encountered it. >> i had a friend who sent a
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note to me saying this guy shows that everyday racism, we think of racists in america, right, the typical racist as southern white guy, right? this is happening in new york city. people who work on wall street, people who work in law firms, people anywhere, going out to restaurants, you know, in the middle of new york city, hold those same feelings and we don't know about it. this is exposing it. >> yeah, and, you know, i think i should mention, too, that about half the story that i wrote was dedicated to bystander intervention and how people can respond when they witness this kind of thing. which i think is really important. i encourage people who are watching to read the article and read those things online and get that kind of information. >> yeah, the article is written on, go to aplus.com and read isaac saul's article. thank you. >> thank you so much, don, i appreciate it. when we come bam, more and more incidents like this have been caught on camera and gone viral. does it prove the face of racism is very different than a lot of
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the new york city lawyer caught on camera berating people for speaking spanish and threatening to call immigration, trying to keep a low profile tonight dodging reporters. i want to bring in tim wise, an
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anti-racism writer and activist who's the author of "dear white america." cnn political commentators are here as well. good evening. so, tim -- >> good evening. >> -- cnn is aware of three separate incidents this attorney has been involved in. one of the things that's ironic is on his website he offers services in multiple languages including spanish. when you saw this story, when i saw the story, i wanted to talk to you and i wanted to get your thoughts. what do you think? >> well, look, if the problem were just this one guy, it wouldn't be worth having this conversation but the reality is we've got video after video and incident after incident, just in the last couple of weeks. how many white folks are calling police on black people for absolutely no reason? we've got videos of people melting down on youtube. yelling at baristas and starbucks about being discriminated against because
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they're white men and they can't catch a break. we've got story after story of young children, middle age school kids being taunted of build the wall, build the wall. a friend of mine who i've known for 30 years his middle school kid was on a trip to washington at the smithsonian about a week ago, very diverse group of middle school kids. they come across another group of kids, white kids, a bunch of them with make america great again t-shirts and hats. and one of the kids look at his t-shirt, points at it and says this is made of cotton, thanks for picking it. and none of the teachers did anything with this kid. and they had to get the kids out of there before anything went wrong. there are dozens of incidents not being caught on tape, and this is filtering down to young children. there are is clearly something wrong culturally we're not
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addressing. >> we hung out here together, we know what new york city is like. very diverse. when you see a young, attractive successful businessman screaming at people in manhattan because they're speaking spanish, what did you think? >> this guy is obviously an equal opportunity xenophobe. looking at a spectacle like this, it's disturbing. what are you doing in new york city? i grew up in new jersey. it's a melting pot, the northeast, like this. to see these kinds of outbursts -- i will tell you after watching more and more videos of this guy, he's got a problem. he's clearly a racist. he's an equal opportunity xenophobe as i said. another time it was just an
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f-ing foreigner he called someone. so this guy is an epitome of something that's been unearthed in the era of trump. as someone who's lived in new york and new jersey, washington, d.c. and been all over the country, all over the world, actually, i have never seen the kinds of ugliness that i've seen from people who you wouldn't expect, right, since trump came into office. and in the republican party, i have to say the party i have been a part of as a conservative of for most of my adult life, to sit back and make excuses for it or to stay silent and just act as though this is not happening is very disconcerting for me. and they should be ashamed of themselves for not acknowledging it. >> steve, what are you saying? >> look, this guy's an ass. i don't know how else to say it.
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he's an ass. he's making fun of people for speaking spanish. it's offensive to everyone, certainly offensive to me as a latino. to try to fix the behavior of one man, to ascribe the behavior of one man to donald trump to me is an absurd leap of logic. this guy's a jerk. i don't see the political banter. i just don't. >> tara, hold on. hold on, please, please. every time -- every time we have a video and we put it on, someone who supports trump says this is one person, and to ascribe that to one person is just outrageous. and we put on another one and you say the same thing and another one and another one and another one. so how long does that excuse hold water, that it's just one
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person? every single person here has just said it's more than one person. it's more than one person. >> i'll answer that. i will answer that, all right. as a minority, as a son of an immigrant who had a dad who by the way spoke with a heavy accent, embarrassed me as a kid -- i'm ashamed it embarrassed me. >> you've got three minorities on this panel. go on. >> it's an important point. i get it. >> you can still be a minority and still be a bigot. >> hold on -- >> you can still be a minority and -- >> i'm still talking. >> i'm still talking as well. you can still be a minority and make excuses for xenophobes and anti-sem mites. >> i get it totally. i get it in a visceral sense. i also believe this about america, thank goodness -- >> can we stick to the point? steve, stick to the point. >> can you let me make my point? >> i've got one minute.
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can you get to the point? >> you're not even letting me get to my point. >> it's taking too long. >> all right, i'll be quick. this country once fundamentally racist that believed black people could be owned elected twice a black man named barak hussein obama. >> if barack obama winning twice means racism is fundamentally eradicated i guess steve would argue there's no racism in pakistan because -- was elected there twice. that's a seventh grade argument that was just made on national television. surely, surely we can do better than that. >> the things he has said from the judge stuff, he couldn't be a good judge because he was a mexican, the bigoted comments
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over and over again have given people like this jerk off license to think it's okay to behave this way. look how many people running for congress have said things that are inappropriate as republicans. look at what blankenship did in virginia, thank goodness he lost. this kind of stuff you would never see -- my point is, these people are feeling emboldened to do it because the president of the united states is saying there's good people on both sides of charlottesville. >> go ahead, steve. >> but my point is these people are feeling emboldened to do it because the president of the united states says there are good people on both sides from charlottesville. >> let him respond. >> here's the thing, this slossberg, he's apparently a racist, an ass, he should be paid no attention to -- so what? what does that mean?
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>> people feel it's okay to behave this way at pep rallies. why is it okay? >> let him finish. >> racism has become not the scarlett a but the scarlett r, the scarlett letter of the left. when you don't want to talk about what we are doing in the trump movement for minorities, by the way, for their prosperity and security, what you do is call us racist, and it's a way of marginalizing us and taking us out -- >> hold on. hang on, tim. steve, why are you personalizing this? no one called you a racist. you're saying someone from the left told this guy to go into a restaurant and call out people for -- >> or this guy or the one guy at the trump rally that taunts the
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black guy or trump saying there are people on both sides, making excuses for david duke -- >> because i am a supporter of donald trump i have been affixed to this jerk even though i have nothing to do with him -- >> steve, he's wearing a make america great again hat. >> when children are talking about picking cotton -- let me finish. i didn't interrupt you, really, except for the $500 comment. if anyone had been walking around in obama shirts and hats in 2008 attacking people verbally or making $500 contributions to barack obama's campaign you know full well you would have made an issue of it and condemn those people -- >> no, i wouldn't. >> yes, you would. >> no, i wouldn't. when you have tens of millions of people you're going to have crazies on both sides. this guy's a crazy. there are crazies on the left. that is the law of large
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numbers. >> so you don't think it comes from the top when president trump makes the comments he makes, that doesn't embolden these crazies to come out? i can remember when bill buckley, a conservative hero of mine cast out the burkes society because of the fanatical positions they were taking. he took a stand because it was the right thing to do. why can't you just take a stand and condemn the kinds of things donald trump has said that's emboldened these kinds of people and these racists -- >> if we're going to follow this logic to the shooter of congressman scalise, is that bernie sanders fault because he happened to be a supporter of -- >> okay, here's the difference, bernie sanders and his supporters condemned it. >> i'm condemning it right here on national television. >> you're making excuses for it. >> i'm saying this guys a -- i am totally condemning him. >> he won't answer that.

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