tv CNN Special Report CNN May 18, 2018 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
it's these new fresh-fx car air fresheners from armor all. each scent can create a different mood in my car. like tranquil skies. armor all, it's easy to smell good. figuerras. a solemn night in santa fe walks texas where chris cuomo is right now. chris. >> reporter: anderson, stupts from the local high school, parents members of this community, all forever changed and coming together tonight in a vigil. ten paem had lives stolen here. nine of them students, one of
them a substitute teacher. we know law enforcement officers were also injured taking on this murderer. we have learned some of the names, know not the stories yet. we know that sebena shake is one of the people who was hurt in this situation. we know that kringty tisdale is the substitute teacher who lost her life. sebena is from pakistan foreign exchange student. you had a dozen people injured here anderson. it's an active scene because of the involvement of explosives. >> yeah, chris, the alleged gunman, a 17-year-old student abjunior made his court appearance charged with capital murder. bail denied of course as drew griffin reported in the last hour. this came without the warning signs which doesn't change any other fact of what happened more wipe away a single tear. more from nick valencia.
>> we're making entry. >> shots fired shots fired. >> more shots fired. additional shots fired. >> gunshots rang out at santa fe high school in southeastern texas after classes started walk in around 7:30. >> several more shots. >> police shooting. he is in the art room. we have shots fired right now, guys. >> nine students and one teacher killed. an additional ten people injured, including school resource officer john barnes is not in the elbow. survivors describe a hair os scene. >> all the teachers are telling us go, go, ryan. me and my friend ryan ran to the to get shelt are and i called my mom. >> it's ink distinct, scared traumatized runs as fast as you can. >> parents received the unthinkable call, an active shooter inside the school. >> if you would have heard what i heard this morning, the fear
in my loved's won voice because of my son being in that classroom. really scarey. >> really scarey. >> he is in custody. >> a 17-year-old male in custody, believed to be the shooter. the texas governor said authorities are speaking to two other people in connection with the crime. in addition to the use of a shotgun and.38 caliber revolver during the shooting, explosives were found nearby that could have much more damage. >> there have been explosives devices found in the high school. and surrounding areas adjacent to the high school. because of the threat of these explosive items community members should be on the lookout for any suspicious items. >> law enforcement says, the splefs devices included home made pipe and pressure cooker bombs as well as a molotov cocktail. sources tell cnn that investigators searched a nearby trailer where it's believed the explosives were assembled. process the students of santa fe high school have to grapple with
being the latest school on a growing list affected by a mass shooting. >> nobody should have to go through this. nobody should feel that pain. it hurts my heart to see this. >> nick valencia joins us. nick, i know you were at a vigil just finishing up tonight. >> reporter: yeah, anderson, i talked to the niece of a teacher full-time substitute teacher who was killed earlier today. and injury the dressing reality is starting to settle in with a lot of people in santa fe. they never planned for this to happen. in fact, it was earlier this year that they went through a scare. just after parkland i'm told by the students that there was a threat of a school shooting. the school was put on lockdown. it was just a scare that day. but earlier this morning it was the real thing. and we're seeing that on the faces and the expressions of those here at this vigil. a short time ago here off camera there was a student sobbing in her mother's arms saying she didn't get the chance to say
goodbye to her classmate. another little girl, 15-year-old girl showing up here in crutches one of those injured at the shooting grazed she believed by a bullet in the right leg. she says in the chaos of it all she wasn't sure what happened. so many people here sharing stories and emotion on what is a very depressing day in santa fe. anderson. >> nick valencia thanks very much. alleged gunman made the first court appearance by video link up, the judge zpieing bail as we mention we neither show his face or say his name and authorities have yet to offer full accounting all he has done. but we are learning details. but we tern to alex marquardt, the governor says there were no warning signs be no criminal records, no -- but there were red flags in social media. >> what the governor says at least in terms of official worked, criminal background, he -- the attacker had what the governor called a clean slate. but for anyone who is paying
close attention to the attacker social media profiles in particular his facebook page there were some fatherly clear red flags. let me run threw those. the first was posted on april 30th. that was just under three weeks ago. and the attacker posted a picture of a black t-shirt that had born to kill written on the fibrin. now that same day he also posted a picture of a long black coat. we know from the lieutenant governor today that the attacker carried out the attack wearing a long black coat and hid a shotgun under it. now, in this facebook post, the attacker drew attention to a number of opinions that were on the coat including a nazi iron cross which he said in the caption represented bravery and then on the collar there was a communist red star with a hammer and sickle which he said represented rebellion. now, anderson, one third disturbing clue on the facebook page, the comp image of the attacker profile had the album cover of a french electronic
band. and on that album they have a song called humans are easy prey. so, anderson for anyone paying attention to the facebook page there were red flags and warning signs and facebook has taken down that panl today. anderson. >> governor abbott also talked about the guns, the weapons the attacker used and mentioned a journal with plans. >> he also talked about explosives. we know from investigators and the governor there were a number of explosives found in and around the school, including pipe bombs, pressure cookers, molotov cocktails, with you as far as the guns used by the attack are, there were two of them one was a shotgun and one was a.38 pistol. now both were acquired legally but not by the fumble he was just 17 years ol. but by the gunman's father. it's unclear how the father kept them whether he knew his son had access, whether he knew his son took them. but it was a shotgun and pille.
they found journals on the cell phone and of the attacker that said he wanted to commit this shooting and echted to commit suicide following. he turned himself in and then told the authorities he didn't have the courage to kill himself. anderson. >> there's been a lot of back and forth about a possible accomplice. where does it stand with that. >> there is confusion surrounding that. what we learned earlier was that there was a second possible accomplice, an 18-year-olds are possibly a student at the school. they also said there were two people of interest. the latest that we are learning, from a judge mark henry, who was the judge in that hearing tonight. he is the highest elected official in galveston county. and he is saying it appears according to inventoryings that he spoke with that the shooter acted alone. anderson. >> we are also hearing more from students at the school who knew
the shooter. and what sort of things are they saying? how well do they know him >> no one is coming out and saying he was best friend, great guy, supernice, i can't belief he carried it out. what we hear from a number of students is that he was quiet, a loaner kept to himself. one student who we spoke with said that he wore combat boots and possibly this famous black trench coat every day, even in 90-degree heat. very hot down there in southern texas. this same student was also saying he was bullied by coaches. we have spoken to fabs who said that he was a nice and quiet kid. anderson this was not someone a complete loaner. he played sports, freshman football, played jv football. according to one report on the school website he had a standout game. he was from what we understand at least a decent athlete. he had posted he was joining the
marines. he was planning or hoping to join the impairs after grrgs. we did reach out to the marens they said they had no record of any contact with the young man. >> alex marquardt, appreciate it. chris cuomo is also in santa fe. i want to check in with chris. still a lot to learn about this young man. >> reporter: rae yeah but how familiar does it smack already, anderson? that's why they put the columbia protocol into place. you can ask people a series of questions and identify risk of homicidal thoughts, suicidal thoughts. somebody knew something and we'll learn they didn't know what they were seeing didn't know what to do about it and wind up in the sim place we've been so many times. and there are other aspects of this wigs we need to get into that will teach us something for sure. let's do that right now. we have cnn law enforcement analyst and retired fbi supervisory agent james gal yan o special agent james gallon o and national security analyst
and former assistant second juliette kayyem. it's good to have you both with us. james as i said in the last hour you and i cooed together too many times in situations like this. this one sets up similar in terms of the profile of the kid what's known and unknown about the 17-year-old. let's put them to the side. the weapon analysis here is different than we are used to seeing. it's usually a high-round, high-capacity, high-power weapon used. how did he get it? he shouldn't have been able to get it that doesn't seem to be the case. >> two standard home defense weapons a shotgun and .38. the level of complexity is raised with the explosives. the fedding may take it over as a weapons of mass destruction case. texas has draconian laws here. he is looking at the death penalty >> he has been charged with capital murder, death penalty eligible. he didn't enter a plea but asked for an attorney. >> absolutely. now law enforcement right now, the most important thing is we are starting to rule things out.
they're going through obviously everything they had as far as digital exhaust. social media platforms and that stuff. also, talking to people he knew, trying to basically build out or flesh out who the person was what his grievance was, what caused him or drove him to do this, most importantlily any accomplices. building the bombs people think it is as easy as the and arkist cook become. yes they're crude. but they take a certain level of sophistication. for him to bring fauchl of them to the school for that to be a criminal scene -- we're a save distance away because the law enforcement is going through and making sure nothing is readily able to debt nature. >> found them at the scene in the surrounding area and looking at a nearby trailer where they think that they were put together. >> it just seems that there is a level of complexity and coordination here. so i'm sure the most important thing right now is to make sure there were no accomplices. >> juliette, according to one of the witnesses who was a room over but says he directly spoke
to kids who were in that art class room where the shooting was going on. he says that they told him that the murderer threw what looked like a device. they have to show they were qualified pat wmds they weren't insert. the only other obstacle i believe legally is the kid is 17 and that requires special -- a special reference from the attorney general himself. but in terms of the analysis of looking online to who he knew, who would have helped him, where does that take investigators? >> well, it's going to take them to friends. i think that's going to be the most interesting point. like james, i'm finding it hard to believe that someone didn't know where that there wasn't some other complic. we hear that from law enforcement. the reason why is because this is not a typical school shooting. the involvement of the i oechlt
d and explosives means a level of planning of purchasing things, figuring out how to put them together. potentially testingpeople. of course they didn't work but it takes coordination that is -- that is unique in this case. that's why i think the accomplice issue is key here. the other issue is going back to the guns. this case is not falling into the typical gun debate that you and -- sort of follows the incidents of tlae of us followed slich because the shotgun and then the pistol that were used are not -- wouldn't be covered by any gun legislation that's often talked about. but i think there is another issue that's going to be examined. and you started to hear it from law enforcement which is did the father know that the son had access to the guns? did he think that they were stolen? you know, what was the relationship there? i'm a strong proponent of parents taking responsibility for the guns they bring into their homes, safe locks and other aspects. i don't know if there is criminal liability for the father.
but it's something to examine what era what did the father no access to the gun. >> you tee up the right issue. on the federal side they are looking. because people say they are using bombs and stuff this murderer. why isn't it terrorism? they need to find proof of motivating a political or social agenda. that's what they define terrorism as. i know that's frustrate willing to people but it means something that word to investigators often different than it connotes to the rest of us. james, to juliette's idea about access, you did some research into the law. what did you find out about what the law with respect to who is in charge of the weapons? how does that work in this case? >> so 28 states across the country, chris have what we call child access prechgs laws. cap laws. you refrpsed it before. texas has one. it's a class e misdemeanor meaning the lowest level of misdemeanor. if you are negligible. -- or negligent leave a weapon out that a youngster sister gets
a hand on. one hundred kids a year are killed by unsecured firearms. essentially two a we can. in this instance did the father do everything reasonable to safe guard the weapons or leave them out where a minor could get them. we talk about safe gun owner ship, a lock box or safe or trigger lock on the weapon. in this instance did the father know the son had access or did the son somehow get access. >> key factor analysis. >> it's difficult for district attorney under circumstances like this where generally you have a child either involved in getting ahold of the weapons killing themselves accidentally or through suicide or killing others. >> right. >> it's something that's normally taken up in civil court. >> all right. james wp. juliette thank you very much just for context about why we should care about this, 19.4 million households in this country has 2 million guns not locked away. either near or fully armed.
it's an issue. was it an issue this this case in we'll find out soon enough. >> we'll look at it come up next, the judge who just ruled in the court proceedings more about what he says about the case. also perspective from a parent who lost a child in the shooting in parkland less than three months ago. ♪ ♪ the powerful backing of american express. don't live life without it.
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well we touched briefly on the legal process tonight. the alleged killer making a video court appearance. the ma'am strait judge talked to reporters and visited the crime scene as well as the hospital. here is some of what he had to say. >> after reviewing the probable cause affidavit that the arresting officer submitted and input from the galveston county district attorney's office i found probable cause for the charges of capital murder and aggravated assault of a public servant. i denied bond on the suspected shooter in santa fe high pressure read his rights. he requested appointment of counsel he will be assigned to felony trial court and proceed on the charges of capital murder and. >> i've been on the scene three times. i'm familiar with what happened. i didn't have difficult difficulty with the probable cause affidavit. the arresting officer disinterest described being dispatched and saw the officer
shot in the chest or arm maybe. he saw multiple victims deceased on the scene. capital murder is a death penalty case. i don't see the value in a district attorney add more charges. that's his decision not mean. there is nothing worse than capital murder. i don't know what the point would be. >> you came stating straight from the hospital what was that like. >> governor abbott, lieutenant governor, senator cruz and a couple of state reps went to the clear lake regional got to meet one of the shooting victims. a very braining youngen man who got shot in the arm. he had the x-ray his arm broken in half from gunshot. he is doing well. the doctors said they don't have reason to believe there was complications. he was surrounded by a ton of family. >> this was a student. >> a junior at santa fe high school yet. i haven't heard the word accomplice being used by anybody close to the investigation. they have termed him a person of interest. and the details that i got lead me to believe that's the correct
ace assessment. i don't see a connection from what they're telling me. i don't expect that's ending up being a accomplice. federal law enforcement was there. specifically focusing in -- i'm sorry on any explosives charges that might be pursued by the federal government. that's absolutely what they should be doing. that's something the feds do better than the state. the weapons are consistent with what's within o been reported a shotgun and .38 caliber revolver. >> what about the explosives, anything about that? >> what -- what i was dsh gern my information is pretty old now as fast as this is developing. the but the information i got at 2:30 was they were attempts but not functional. co2 canisters but no way to debt nature and a pressure cooker with alarm clock and nails. but no explosives device. so but you can't -- you've got to treat them like they're potentially lethal. and go from there. >> molotov cocktails. >> i did receive information
that this was unlit or unspent molotov cocktail, yes. >> what do you want to say to the community right now. >> hang in there. we're doing the best we can. we have significant loss of life not common for galveston county. we have families that need support and help. >> chris cuomo is on the scene in santa fe. two important things stand out to me, chris. no real technological know how in terms of device nas law enforcement talked about earlier. so we have more detail on that. and also the judge saying based on what he has seen doesn't seem there was an accomplice. which is incredibly insist because there was concern about that earlier today. >> reporter: right. i mean there is a straightforward aspect to the prosecution here. and that's what the judge was referring to, capital murder is as bad as it gets and certainly justified by the circumstances. let's bring james gall yan o. interesting to hear the judge say we think all the explosives
were did he coys that means two things. one we had a witness there this morning who believed he heard something explode who says he was told by kids in the room that they saw a bomb that it went off and kids were injured. in the people people can mistake situations and cannot be what they seem in the moment. that's one issue. the second is the idea of federal charges for weapons of mass destruction. if they are all inert here is the question for you, they could not have gone of era off, would have never worked can you charge. >> that's a difficult legal question, chris. first of all, the components of a bomb for it to be classified as a bomb it has to have a power supply which could be a battery. an initiator or igniter could be a blasting cap. has to have explosives from what we understand there were no explosives c 4 or something like that then it has to have a switch. a trip wire. it sounds like these were clumsy rudimentary devices and you and i talked about the possibility they might flesh out. were they used to inspire
without calling it a terrorist attack. having those things so children thought they might have been a grenade process. for it classified as a weapon of mass druks that could be a chemical component, biological ob radiologile or nuclear. anything with levels of explosives in it and things that could possibly put a biological hazard into the air or chemical hazard or something like that. >> and this is this murderer being 17, that would require a pass essentially on the age restriction which the u.s. attorney. >> yes. >> we have to find out more about that. but there is something straightforward about this case for this judge, that this man went in there, had the intent to kill and did exactly that. james thank you very much. let's take a quick break. still a lot ahead. we'll have a conversation with mark kelly, you know him the former astronaut and husband of gabby giffords. you want to stay tuned for that. because we're searching for the samances. how do we make the shooings
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astronaut and husband of shooting survivor gabby giffords tweeted today about with what happened at santa fe high school. it's our moral obligation to protect the vulnerable. command kelly wrote the adult politicians are responsible for safety of our children. gabby giffords and i are devastated for the santa fe community. i lived in that area over 15 years. it's just ten miles from the johnson space chernt. commander kelly joins me from arizona. commander, do you take the president at his word when he says he is determined to do everything to protect students and secure schools in. >> well, he said that after parkland. i think it was on a tuesday. and then he -- then he spoke very pointedly to a number of
u.s. senators and said that they were scared of the national rifle association and then maybe he would have to be the person that went forward and got background checks as an example i think he said, background checks passed for gun sales. that was tuesday. by thursday he completely i guess lost interest and about two months later he was the speaker at the national rifle association convention in dallas. so i don't think -- i mean, i didn't hear him say anything today that was, like, in a positive direction to take this issue seriously. he talked about how it's been going on too long. i think we know that. i think the only directive thing he did is he said we should fly the flags at half staff. >> i mean, a lot of your focus has been at the local level. is that right? because i mean after a mass shooting people ask, well will this finally be the time when leaders take decisive action? will things happen on capitol
hill? you've been looking state by state, working state by state. >> well, anderson both actually. we work hard with members of congress on capitol hill on legislation. i haven't gotten a lot passed. we are fighting the nra's top three tristar. which is concealed carry, rest prospy pb legalization of silencers and giting rid of -- they want to arm teachers and have more guns in schools that's not the answer. and the state level we passed two hundred pieces of legislation in 45 different states. there is a state focus. i heard some -- to be honest i heard somewhat positive things from the governor and the lieutenant governor of texas and ted cruz as well. i mean, they talked about you have to do everything humanly possible to keep guns out of the wrong hands. they mentioned background checks for gun sales. they mentioned, you know, we have to look at red flags. so they said positive things. you know, i'm just worried that in the next couple of days they'll walk that back.
>> i want to ask you about an analysis that the "washington post" did in which they found that more people have been killed at schools this year than killed while serving in the military. in fact nearly twois as many. i mean it's kind of -- it's a staggering justificati staggering juxtaposition what goes through your mind. >> it's ridiculous that these kids live in a country, kids in santa fe, parkland, or 22 other places around the country this year alone that they have to assume that kind of risk when they go to school. i served in the navy 25 years. you know, i flew in kbal are combat. there was a presumption of risk that you are risking your life serving your country and flying you know an airplane into a combat zone. these kids shouldn't have to assume risks just to go -- just to go to school. and you know to see our elected leaders do nothing about this over and over again. it's just an incredibly sad
situation. you know, i -- i really feel for this community in santa fe. i was part of that community. they were great people. the kids shouldn't have to go through this. >> i mean you said you lived there in that area 15 years. you know it well. commander kelly i appreciate you being with us tonight. thank you so much. okay chris -- chris era on the ground in santa fe. i feel like we talked with commander kelly after every one ever these and again it seems like nothing changes. >> reporter: well, that's because nothing has change, right? i mean it is fair criticism, anderson. no matter what side of this silly war of resistance when it comes to gun control that you are on, nothing gets done because it's a war of resistance. and here we are once again, the smart thing to do is to be here. your show made the right call if we ignore these get compassion fatigue that assures nothing gets done. so let's get back to what you've
been reminding us all might matters most, the people who made it through and people who didn't and their stories. madeline williams is here with us, a senior graduating in two weks with a story to tell. young lady thank you for joining us here. i wish it were under different circumstances. we were talking about that earlier. you lost friends, three of them. >> yes. how are you dealing with this? you have your mom with you. but this is not something we're set up to cope with easily. >> well i. >> how are you doing. >> i have my other friends that we're all working through it together. we're helping each other. one of my friends -- he is one of ones that got me out of there fast. because i'm not a fast runner by any means. and he grabbed me by the wrist and drug me out. and he was like we have to go. so we're all working through it together. we're coming together as a community. we're setting up funds for the
families. we're helping each other. >> and it's so raw and new to you that this happened. when you realized now it's your school, i know that your school participated in a walkout in support of what happened in parkland. but you never think, we all know it could be fib but you never expect it to be you. what do you think this will mean to you guys and this community? >> in this community i feel we're going to start pushing for more guns because we are a small town santa fe. we're pushing for each other. routing for each other. friday night lights are the best. the amount of people here in support of gun control is very, very small. we are one of the teachers is an exmarine. and he -- he was very instrumental in getting us all out and finding places to be.
and saving dsh saving us. >> sure that's what we've been told. >> i feel like if we have more marines on campus or had something to protect ourselves with we wouldn't be sitting ducks. we wouldn't be defenseless. we have two cops on campus. and. >> and they supposedly engaged him early very early on did you hear the volley of governing suggesting they were taking on the shooter we know law enforcement was injured. there were people there responded early. he was still able to kill people. >> yeah. statistically they only lost about five minutes. and for the amount of people to die that we did in five minutes, we need either faster response time for -- from our officers or we need our own sort of protection. and i feel like we're already asking enough of our ofrtsds they've done so much for us. we should be able to protect ourselves. >> well, here is what we know for sure.
we got to do something right. >> we do. >> we keep limping the same nightmare and young people like you wind up having to carry it forward as one of the biggest moments of are their lives. and that's not fair. the good news you're good people. and you are wearing a shirt says commit for life making the oximeter to donate blood and there was a call went out today because of your classmates and the law officers, the law enforcement officers who were hurt and you're saying you're giving blood and other people are answering the call. >> yes, sir. >> there are good people and bad people the more of you we have the better off we'll be. madeline i'm sorry to meet you this which but i wish you the best going forward. and i hope some day we'll be able to see the changes that will make this less likely have been made but thank you for talking to me about it and the best to you and your family and friends. and congratulations and grrgs it's still going to be the best day of your life going forward. >> thank you. >> all right let's take a break. so many of these questions are so familiar to so many of you. and yet we have not gotten the answers that we need.
today's shooting was obviously extremely painful reminer of what took place at parkland, florida three months ago. one of the 17 killed that day was meadow pollock whose father made protection ever high school students one of his life's missions. i spoke with him just before the broadcast. >> andrew. i can't imagine what today must have been like for you. another school shooting so soon
after parkland. whattent went through your mind when you heard the news. >> at first when i heard it my heart was just sung to my stomach. i was sick for an hour and thinking about what happened and the families how they feel. as the day went on i got angry. by the time i got on with you i'm pretty angry there is another ten kids dead or one teacher and nine kids. and now there is another ten families that have to live like i do. it's not -- it's not a good thing, believe me. my life has been changed and it will never be like it was before. and now there is ten more people have to live like i do. and it's not -- it's not something that -- that is good to live with. and i really feel for the families in texas. that's what angers me. and it happened again, anderson. >> you talk about anger. i know you have been turning that anger into action ever
since your daughter was killed. you are focusing on school safety. do you think anything has changed? are we in the same place as we were before the parkland shooting? >> well, i think not much has change, because it happened again, you know after 9/11 there hasn't been one high jacking that i know of after 9/11. but today we sit here me and you, talking. and it's the 22nd school shooting of this year. now, when is enough going to be enough where people say, listen, we need to have single-point entries and metal detectors at the school, just like in a courthouse or at a stadium. we're safe in stadium but we let the kids go to school and they're not safe. >> you have an organization, americans for class.org, american for class is the organization. that's the focus, to try to change and focus on school
safety issues. >> well, what -- what i got involved with is i don't want it to be politicized. it shouldn't be in this country where people make it political or left or right. you know, we all have kids so after a lot of the shooings i saw that with a lot of the focus was just on guns. and for me it was really -- it really bothered me because it's something that every american wants is our kids being safe. and that's something that we could do right away. that's why i started americans for class.org to work with parents throughout the country and keeping our kids and our teachers safe. because look at our society, anderson. we're -- we grew up in times where we were safe at skoom. i met with over 100 teachners the parkland area. and they're still to this day do not feel safe going to school. and the students don't feel safe. >> what can you say to a parent who has been through this? i mean you've been through the
worst thing any parent can possibly live through. >> that's what people have been asking pay. people have been asking me all day about that, anderson. and i really -- there is nothing like -- there is nothing that you could say to a parent that lost a kid that's going to make them feel better. it's really sad, anderson. the only thing you can do is be there for a parent and support them. my life's change. those -- those parents in texas are never going to be the same as they were up until today. and there is nothing you're going to say to pak them feel better. it's 90 days i feel it's just as bad as the 14th of february as i do today. so i wish i could tell them something. but there is nothing that's going to make them feel better. >> people often talk about closure. i think that's a made up tv word. i don't think there is anything like that for somebody that lost a loved one like you have. >> how -- you know, i get stabbed in the heart every day i get a knife in the heart. i see a picture. you know, that i see, or
something that reminds me of my daughter. and it kills me. you know it's like a wave of emotion. and i'm waiting. like when is that going away? i still -- i can't smile for a picture, could you imagine that, anderson? i got pictures people want to take a picture with me. i go -- wherever i go family functioning friends. i can't even get to the point where i can show my teeth and smile. >> yeah. >> that's my life now. and now unless we start taking this really serious it's going to happen again. you know, it happened in texas. you know it could happen again even in florida, you know when school opens and school closes people could walk into the schools. there is no way to top it what's going on right now. so it's kind of -- i don't know, like after 9/11, the airports were fixed. 22nd school shooting, i'm angry it's going to happen and it's going to happen again. >> before we go, what do you want people to know about meadow?
i know on this day as you think about her obviously every day. what do you want people to know about her? >> yeah. you know, i just -- it's all these kids. my daughter was unbelievable. i think about her all the time. but people -- we got to put all our kids in our hearts. grandparents, parents, just as a country, we can't let our kids go to school and not feel safe. we owe it to them to do something different, anderson. my daughter meant rg in the whole world. the love i had for her is unmeasurable. and i'm never fudge to be the same. we owe it to the kids. we went to school. and we had a good time. we went friday night we went to the parties. we went to school, socialized. kids don't have that today. and we owe it to them in this country to make it happen. that's what i would tell everyone out there that enough is enough with getting our kids not safe at school. they're getting shot. and it's no way for a kid to go to school or a teacher? you know it's unacceptable to me
for that. it's the worse imaginable thing that could happen to you we you go through something like this. there is nothing anyone can say. but when they see me i know what they feel. >> you want to go go to conclusion and meet with the parents and share with them. >> i'm jug hugs them. thank god you don't know and thank god there is other -- most people don't know. you know what i mean but i know how it feels. and i'm just going to give them a hug. i think it's worth me. i feel like i owe it to them to go out trn a give them a hug and maybe pay my respect at the funerals. that's what i'm going to do leave from new york tuesday and probably head out. >> andrew pollock. thank you. >> all right, anderson. >> andrew pollock. just ahead breaking news on the big claim that the president is making about a spy in his campaign. he doesn't offer specific evidence. tonight we know more about who this person is and exactly what that informant was really doing. ahead.
♪ i just want you close, ♪ where you can stay forever. ♪ you can be sure ♪ that it will only get better ♪ you and me together ♪ through the days and nights. ♪ i don't worry 'cause ♪ everything's gonna be all right. ♪ ♪ no one, no one, no one ♪ can get in the way of what i'm feeling. ♪ ♪ no one, no one, no one ♪ can get in the way of what i feel for you. ♪ ♪ you, you ♪ get in the way of what i feel for you. ♪
there's new reporting tonight tonight informant who president trump and surrogates have been trying to paint as an obama fbi spy in the 2016 campaign. this morning, the president tweeted, reports are, there was indeed at least one fbi representative planted for political purposes into my campaign for president. it took place very early on and
long before the phony russia hoax became a hot fake news story. if true, all-time biggest political scandal. earlier today, u.s. officials told cnn that a confidential intelligence source was not planted inside the trump campaign and tonight, "the new york times" has a new story pup with even more insight. the headline, fbi used informant to investigate russia ties to campaign, not to spy as trump claims, and the report really fleshes out who this individual actually is, and violate what he is not. matthew rosenberg shares the byline on the story. he joins us by phone. also with us -- excuse me, matthew joins us live in person. and karoun demirjian and phil mudd also joins us. so matt, just walk us through what's new in your article. details about this informant, the capacity in which the informant assisted the fbi and what that yielded. >> so what we've been told is that basically the fbi had its investigation going. they needed to find out from
people involved in the campaign, you know, certain details. people who were already subject to this investigation. now, they couldn't very well send fbi agents off to do that. that would have tipped off the campaign about what's going on in the middle of an election. so they used a longtime source, an informant, an asset, whatever you want to call him. this is an academic, ridetired academic, who splits his time, a lot of time in britain and a lot of time in the u.s., and he then and went and made contact with at least two different individuals who are now part of this investigation, including george papadopoulos, who's pled guilty already. so that's what we've learned. the president kind of saying, this all was a spy inside the campaign, before this whole thing became a story. that's totally misleading. this was after the investigation had begun and was a kind of improperly used investigative tool in an attempt to find out more. >> so this informant, or asset, met with george papadopoulos, to
try to find out details if he -- what he knew about russia and any e-mails? >> yes, exactly. that george papadopoulos helped get this information going. this one drunken night in london, he bragged to an australian diplomat this dirt russia had on hillary clinton, including wikileaks e-mails, long before they became public. the fbi then used this asset to go try and talk to george and see what more they could find out. they actually didn't find out much through the informant. that was one of the uses of the informant. >> phil, as somebody who's served in the cia and fbi, i'm wondering what you make of the president's allies and the president are attempting to do here? >> it's willfully misleading. if the president asks a simple question, how do you conduct an investigation, which his colleague, rudy giuliani would know, having been u.s. attorney in new york, he would get a simple answer. once you have, as matthew was explaining, an open investigation, there's a couple ways you get information, anderson. that's sources and wires. you wiretap people.
we know that happened in this case. that's the whole question about whether people had fisa warrants that were appropriate. the second way you get information, you get an informant up close to somebody and ask them questions. once the fbi opens up an investigation, typically if the fbi is serious, they're going to do one of those two things. these are not spies. this is an investigation trying to determine if the informants are essential or not. this is the president trying to make filet mignon out of chopped liver. this is not that interesting. >> so the president is going through white house counsel don mcgahn, because nunes previously got caught running interference for the white house on the russia investigation. but this is still devin nunes sort of acting like a private eye on behalf of the president. >> well, he's certainly been looking for a lot of different elements of the probe to question and and he's been pushing -- his reason for doing this is he's been trying to find
places where the probe is weak to try to undermine it. clearly, this is one area he's stuck on. and he's been very careful the entire time to make sure, ever since he got caught with last year's midnight run to the white house, to make sure what he's doing is not obviously any sort of coordination with the president or with the oval office. my colleagues at "the washington post" just published a story on this topic as well, that goes through some of the points we were just talking about, including there was a third member of the trump orbit that was made contact with by the same person that everybody is focusing on. and just given that we were talking about the timeline, that some of that may have started slightly before the formal opening of the investigation on july 1st. basically, we're still asking a lot of questions about the details, but it does come down to the allegation that was made by the president, that there is some sort of plant in his campaign. there's no evidenced of that as far as anybody reporting on this story has unearthed. >> i haven't seen that news story in "the washington post." do you name the third person in the campaign?
>> the three individuals that are in our article are the same two that's in "the new york times" and the third is sam clovis, who was affiliated with the trump campaign under a different guise. >> matt, your report tonight says that the informant is well known in washington circles, having served in previous republican administrations and as a source of information for the cia in past years. do you have any sense of how, is this person concerned that the president's allies want to -- want his identity revealed? >> i would imagine so. i want to be careful here. we specifically didn't name him for a reason. but look, when you are an informant and have done this work for years, your identity gets out, one of the concerns here is that people who may have dealt with you 10, 15, however long ago on something else will say, hey, that guy, uh-oh, was he working for the other people or for the u.s. on this? and then there are new dame das y -- dangers you don't know.
there are real concerns here. >> and the former congressman that trump speaks about for this, mark meadows, isn't on the intelligence committee. does that concern you? >> sure. he doesn't know what's going on you. the underlying fact, this is a political conversation the president wants to have with the american people, not an intelligence conversation on the intelligence oversight committee. done deal. that's all it is. >> i want to thank you all. appreciate it. i want to hand things over now to don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon, live in the uk. my colleague, chris cuomo, is live in santa fe, texas, the latest american town in mourning. as chris and anderson have been reporting here all day on cnn and all evening, nine students and one teacher shot to death today in their high school. ten others wounded. >> he's actually shooting. he's in the art room. we've got shots fired right now, guys. we need all of