tv Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN May 31, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT
spy over in cambridge and whatever association was involved, give whatever the fbi did, whatever the cia did. clapper and these guys on tv, they are bitter old men. you turn over every document and if he doesn't turn it over, you give him 24 hours. if he doesn't turn it over, i would fire him. that's giving a law enforcement officer to turn over documents to capitol hill. if he doesn't, i would fire him. >> you can see the rest of the interview tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. that is it for "the lead." i turn owe over to wolf blitzer in the "situation room." thank you for watching. breaking news. pardons. president trump pardons a pair of apprentice stars. is it a defiant message or a signal to witnesses in the mueller investigation? fired over russia. the special counsel has a secret
memo which would reveal a lot about the firing of former fbi director, james comey. special delivery. north korea's former spy chief accused of an attack against the united states will come to washington to deliver a letter to president trump at the white house. will that pave the way for a summit with kim jong-un? plot against the prince. an isis supporter pleads guilty after encouraging a jihadist to target 4-year-old prince george, third in line to become king. how vulnerable are britain's young royals? i'm wolf blitzer. you're in the "situation room." announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news, president trump bypasses the justice department and pardons dsd'souz
and may pardon martha stewart and former illinois governor, rob blagojevich in prison for corruption. our correspondents are standing by with full coverage. let's get to our chief white house correspondent, jim acosta. he profiles a conservative and more may be on the way. what is behind the latest move? >> reporter: a new episode of president trump's white house version of "the apprentice." this time the presidential pardon edition. he is pardoning a darling to the far right, d s'souza and seem detached from reality. >> we are going dallas. we are going to houston. we are going to have a little fun today. >> reporter: president trump left washington for texas, sounded like he was contemplated
a reality tv catch phrase, not you are fired, but you are pardoned. he started for a far right commentator, d'souza, accused of violating campaign laws. tweeting they tried to extinguish my american dream and destroy my faith in america. thank you, mr. trump, for restoring both. tweeting karma is a bitch, known for loading racial commentary. >> the white guy is not welcome at the multicultural picnic. >> this attack on barack and michelle obama. asked why he pardoned d'souza, he said i never met him. i called him last night, first time i spoke to him. i'm pardoning you. nobody asked me to do it. i read the newspapers, i saw him on television. former stars of the tv show "the
apprentice" including rob blagojevich. >> governor, i have great respect for you. i have great respect for your tenacity and you don't give up. rod, you are fired. >> reporter: convicted of charges for attempted to sell obama's former senate seat and style icon, martha stewart who lied to federal prosecutors. >> we are going to make a meatloaf sandwich. >> she's no fan of the president, once giving him the middle finger in this instagram photo, but hosted her version of "the apprentice." >> it really, really bothered me that you talked about quitting. i don't think i have ever quit a job. i have gone through jail. >> reporter: the president made it clear, he is willing to issue pardons starting with joe
arpaio. democrats bl democrats believe the president is sending a message to aides in jeopardy. >> i they they know it. i think robert mueller knows it. it has the potential to be an obstruction of justice case. >> reporter: the white house who welcomed kim kardashian to talk pardons denies that. >> pardons should be judged on the merits, looking at the facts and circumstances in that case. >> reporter: the president is refusing to deal with the realities of the russia probe, tweeting, not that it matters, but i never fired comey because of the russia investigation. it's not what the president said to nbc last year. >> in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. it's an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> reporter: now the president is setting up this debate over the pardons as he's announcing
new tariffs against mexico, canada and the european union. they are talking about retaliating to the u.s. it could drive up costs to american consumers. wolf, that might be the real price of the trump reality show this week. getting back to the pardons, the celebrity status of some of the people the president is considering is not a factor in his deliberations on who he is going to pardon. that's the official word from the white house. >> jim acosta with the latest for us. thank you. the president ignored the regular process for issuing pardons that include advice and recommendations from a unit within the u.s. justice department. let's go to laura jarrett. how unusual is all of this? >> well, wolf, the process and the timing here are quite unusual. in the typical case, someone who wants a pardon makes a petition to the justice department
explaining their case. the justice department reviews the file and makes a recommendation to the white house. obviously, none of that has happened in some of these most controversial pardons we have seen from president trump. legal experts say part of the reason for having the justice department involvement is to help vet the merits of the cases, but to give him a little political distance, if you will. obviously, he hasn't followed through on that. there's nothing until the constitution that says he has to. president bill clinton did it over 40 times, wolf. >> you cover the justice department for us. when the president says a prosecution was unfair, do prosecutors over there feel like their work is being undermined? >> i think you see from u.s. attorneys across the country who are working hard on public corruption cases, this is a disturbing move. you saw tweets today from the former u.s. attorney in the
southern district of new york saying this was a fair prosecution. especially in cases where someone pled guilty, admitted guilt to the court. i think the u.s. attorney's feel this is a bit of a slap in the face, wolf. >> thank you. laura jarrett reporting for us. joining us now, a law school professor. susan hennessey, a former attorney. professor sugarman, do you believe the pardons were made with the intent of sending a message to potential witnesses in the russia probe? >> i think you have to look at the pattern here with each of the pardons trump has given. first, with sheriff joe arpaio, that happened in august. behind the scenes, trump was talking about firing mueller around that time. that's when the trump tower meeting was being exposed. a time of high pressure. then, look when he pardoned scooter libby. you can look at the charges. he was convicted of obstruction
of justice. that happened four days after the cohen raid, the raid of michael cohen's office and hotel and home. the timing is dramatic here because this comes also after some revelations about michael cohen's search. the shredded documents might be unshredded and how much pressure cohen's investigation puts on trump. it's hard not to see the connection here. >> susan, let's remind viewers of what the u.s. constitution says about the president's ability to issue pardons. this is what the constitution says, the president shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons except in cases of impeachment. is that power absolute? >> this is clearly within the president's constitutional power and unreviewable power at that. this is still an abusive use of that power. just because it falls within what the president is able to do constitutionally, that doesn't mean he isn't doing it
improperly. the only accountability here. it's one of the reasons it's so disturbing and we are not seeing any pushback from congressional republicans. >> how do you see it, professor? is he impeding an investigation into himself for all practical purposes? are there limits to issue these pardons? >> one, i agree with susan that, if you can use pardons, but you can't use them for corrupt purposes like obstruction of justice. this could be evidence of obstruction. i will slightly disagree. the constitution does set limits itself on the pardon power. there's a 1974 supreme court case that indicates that within the constitution that sets limits on the pardon power. keep in mind, the constitution says that the president shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. my co-author, ethan and i have
research that suggests that is a limit on presidential abuse of power, a president couldn't use those powers to benefit himself to the detriment of the country. we suggest a president cannot pardon himself or co-conspirators because that violates duties. that could apply if he's using pardons to set up precedence for pardoning himself or saving himself from an investigation. >> susan, what do you think of that? >> i think the issue is not whether or not it is absolute, it is if he does it. this is a violation of the clause in his oath of office. the issue, if he does violate it, i don't see a mechanism for reviewing or remedying that. >> what does it say to you, professor thar professor, that the president is considering pardons to martha stewart and governor rob
blagojevich? >> you can see it. blagojevich was selling off a nomination. the russia investigation is investigating bribery. there's that connection. martha stewart was -- they went through crimes he could be charged with and issued pardons to lay the groundwork. the timing and the underlying crimes just are too co-incidental that line up with the russia investigation. >> interesting. the u.s. attorney for the southern district of attorney prosecuted this case against d'souza. quote, the president has the right to pardon. the facts are d'souza intentionally broke the law, pled guilty, apologized and the judge found no unfairness. the career prosecutor's agents did their job, period.
d'souza responded, quote, they bludgeoned me into the plea to add a second charge carrying a prison term of five years. karma is a bitch. wanted to destroy a fellow indian-american to advance his career, then he got fired and i got pardoned. does it strike you as unusual to see an exchange like this following a presidential pardon? >> it's astonishing. what we are seeing is a stand-up for the rule of law, the integrity of his institution. he acknowledges the president has the right to nullify that decision. i think he's hinting at the ways the president's use of power does undermine his own department of justice. >> what do you think, professor? >> it's remarkable. usually when people have pardons like this, they show more appreciation than anger. it's pretty remarkable. there's the vengeance aspect of
going after ybarra. i want to suggest that these could be challenged. if one of these potential defendants, like say donald trump jr. or manafort or michael cohen goes into court and says i have a pardon. i think there is standing for a prosecutor to say, these pardons are not valid. to make this constitutional argument to a judge and for a judge to agree the pardons are not valid. there is a potential step by step constitutional argument to watch for, if trump is playing this out to use these pardons unfaithfully. >> they could wind up before the u.s. supreme court as we know. shau thank you for joining us. susan, you will be back. thank you to you. north korea's former spy chief, right hand man to kim jong-un will deliver a letter from the dictator to president trump.
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secretary of state, mike pompeo says progress has been made in talks setting up a summit between president trump and kim jong-un. he confirms north korea's former spy chief will be coming to washington tomorrow to hand deliver a letter for the president from the dictator. joining us now, democratic senator, ben from maryland, a key member of the foreign relations committee. what do you think, senator?
what do you think of president trump's decision to allow kim yong chol to come to the white house for a formal meeting? >> if i think the meetings are extremely important. as we said before on your show, there's only one path forward to resolve the crisis in north korea that can work, that's diplomacy. i think north korea understands that. i hope america understands that. we need to make diplomacy work. >> are you worried the north koreans will spin it into a win for them. he is allowed outside the 25-mile radius of the united nations, first time in almost two decades, coming to washington, actually going for a meeting with president trump at the white house. >> well, you know, it's clear that north korea created the crisis by violating
international norms on their nuclear program. we need to find a peaceful way to end that. clearly, north korea will spin it in a way that meets their propaganda needs. our interest is to end the nuclear crisis on the korean peninsula. i they that we have to focus on solving that problem. recognizing there are other issues concerning north korea, including their horrible human rights record against citizens. it's a violation of so many other issues around important we don't lose sight of other issues. let's use diplomacy now to end this nuclear confrontation. >> you have heard the reports this individual, the former spy chief was responsible for the sony hack a few years ago, which targeted a u.s. hollywood studio, also responsible, we are told, for the sinking of a south korean warship in 2010 that killed almost 50 south korean sailors. you have heard all those
reports. >> absolutely. with this administration, with the trump administration, we don't follow the normal diplomatic path. i think that's unfortunate. i think there's risk factors. there could be miscalculations. i am anxious to move forward so that diplomacy has a chance. clearly, the president of the united states, mr. trump, needs to make it clear that these issues will be brought out, the united states will not be silent in regards to what they have done in the hacking issues, done on the human rights front. yes, we are prepared to meet for a diplomatic answer to end the nuclear program on the korean peninsula, but it does not mean we are going to ignore the other issues. >> the secretary of state, mike pompeo sounded optimistic about the direction of the
negotiations. when all is said and done, they will, in fact, give up their capability, their nuclear weapons program. >> i don't trust kim jong-un. i don't trust the north koreans. whatever agreements are reached, you need to have inspections, enforcement and what happens on the ground. i think we have to be realistic to recognize we are not going to end the nuclear program overnight. it will take time. i think we need to stage this in a way we can inspect and be sure the commitments are carried out by north korea. no, i don't trust the north koreans. >> at the same time, it sounds like you are with the president on the diplomatic overtures. >> i am certainly for diplomacy. a military option could be catastrophic. a miscalculation can occur. we need a surge in diplomacy. i certainly am not agreeing with
mr. trump and the strategies he's deployed, the language he used and the on/off statements he's made. i think it is important to follow diplomacy, but it's got to be done in the proper manner. we need to pursue diplomacy. >> senator, thanks for joining us. >> good to be with you, wolf. thanks. coming up, more breaking news. president trump may offer leniency to a pair of aparentive stars. is he signaling witnesses in the special counsel investigation? a plot to kidnap or kill a young royal. an isis supporter pleads guilty to encouraging an attack on 3-year-old prince george. stay with us. you are in the "situation room."
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pressuring the attorney general to change his mind. >> i think it goes to the question of a course of conduct. it's important to note, sessions was obligated to recuse himself. even if president trump disagreed with that decision, it is deeply inappropriate for him to then, attempt to get the attorney general to reverse his decision. this is another data point about trump overstepping the line in a way that robert mueller is going to be interested in. >> let me get our legal analyst, joey jackson to weigh in as well. how do you see it? >> they could be overturned, but provide long standing evidence of what the protocol should be. if you want to make an argument, a credible argument can be made if you are talking about someone who is close to you as sessions is or, i can't say is, i should say was, because we know how he's treated him, that is trump. he's tweeted about him, demeaned
him. the bottom line is, if you have someone who you believe you can control, someone who is a loyalist, if you want them, you clearly want to manage the process. you want to control the process. you want to guide the process. if you are doing that as president, how can an argument be made that you are not deeming to be corrupt in an investigation and proceeding. yes, i think it can be said. at the same time, wolf, briefly, you are going to hear republicans push back and anyone on the defense side push back t. president can hire and maintain anyone he wants. if he believes he wants a person he can control, the constitution permits him to do that. however, if you look at the facts, you can make an argument a corrupt intent was there to keep the guy who does what you tell them to do. >> it's important to note, i take that point. the doj regulations, the ethics guidelines, there's a statute guidelines consist.
it is inconceivable what would be an active congress that would not have him recused. >> finish your thought. >> you can argue sessions has leverage in the upper hand in the sense there's only so far republicans will go in supporting the president if he does decide to fire him. he'd been warned time and time again that would be overstepping the line. that is something republicans in congress would not approve of. they would not go through the process of reconfirming somebody else. sessions has the sense that he has job security with the president now, feeling that he's boxed in without being able to fire him, hence the constant tweets. i mean, i don't know how else to interpret them other than to shame sessions enough to step down, which he has not done. >> let me put up on the screen, some i have discussed from time-to-time. look at the words the president used about his own attorney
general of the united states. caitlin collins reporting, at the same time he was calling him an idiot, weak, disappointed, he did a terrible thing, disgraceful, wish i had picked somebody else. those are strong words from a president about a member of his cap net. at the same time, he asked the attorney general to reverse his decision about recusing himself going back to when he brought him to mar-a-lago in palm beach. >> it's remarkable. i know he said and tweeted all those things, but to see them, we are not talking the attorney general from the democratic administration. this is his hand picked guy. he was the first senator to endorse donald trump's candidacy. they had a huge rally in alabama. he's the attorney general. this is one of the top, premier cabinet jobs. you know, i think -- there's no conclusion other than the one you made. because donald trump knows how difficult it would be, i think,
to get rid of jeff sessions, to fire jeff sessions, he's trying to force his hand to quit. if jeff sessions hasn't quit by now, i don't think he will. donald trump sees everything through his lens. i always come back to the quote about jeff sessions. "the new york times" asked about his recusal, why are you so unhappy about it. he says it was unfair to the president. he doesn't understand, whether it's willful or not, he doesn't understand there are processes in place here. this isn't about you. jeff sessions didn't recuse himself because he wanted to mess with donald trump. he recused himself because of procedure that is are in place. he never grasped that. he continues to not do so. >> if he were, joey jackson, to fire the attorney general, which he has not done, no indication he's about to other than uttering the words, but if he
were to do so, is that evidence of obstruction of justice in. >> you know, you can make the argument, wolf, it would be evidence of obstruction. remember, the attorney general recused himself from the investigation. per se, how are you going to make a credible argument that you are obstructing an investigation. you have nothing to do with the investigation. clearly, it's a president who marches to his own beat, doesn't care about protocols and policies. we can talk about that when it comes to pardons. i'll pardon you if i want. martha stewart is my favorite person who cooks, i'm going to pardon her. he doesn't follow protocol. i mention that because it goes to intent. i's not minnesota who automatically did something. he does what he wants when he wants. the department of justice is bad. the fbi is bad. anyone who supports me is bad. if it's a fact i don't like, it comes from fake news. it's hard to make that argument
in light of who is in the white house. >> the president tweeted this morning, and i'll put it on the screen, not that it matters, but i never fired james comey because of russia. the corrupt mainstream media loves to push that narrative, but they know it is not true. we know what he said in that interview with lester holt. >> yeah. he said it, not only to lester holt, but to sergey lavrov and kislyak in the oval office. you have to wond fer this is a mind game. we have it on tape, we have the video and the reporting. it's not just what the president said. we have follow through over the last year since he had been fired from sources close to the president. that had been what had been bothering him and he thought it, in fact, by firing comey, russia would be off the table. little did he know he would be making the situation ten times worse. especially the rational that he would give lester holt would be something that is haunting him
to this day. >> does he not remember that interview? >> there's a possibility he doesn't. though, you would think if someone, if he vetted his tweets in any way, shape or form, someone would have pointed it out. if he did, someone might say mr. president, you directly contradicted yourself. i always turn back to the cartoon image of the guy in the railroad car and he's putting down a track in front of himself as the train is rushing down the track he is building. that's donald trump's presidency. there is not -- every day he starts with a chalk board totally erased. he views it as whatever he said in the past is in the past. he's going to put down a new piece of track. he's not sure how it's going to work or where it's going to get him. i knew i was going to put down that piece of track. these inconsistencies which are totally irrational, i said that in the past. i believe different now. >> stick around.
there's more breaking news we are following as the u.s. and north korea work toward a summit and talks between secretary of state mike pompeo and kim jong-un wrap up in new york city. president trump makes a dramatic announcement. >> a letter is going to be delivered to me from kim jong-un. so, i look forward to seeing what's in the letter.
and the north korean leader, kim jong-un. this afternoon, after talks with the top north korean official in new york, secretary of state, mike pompeo said real progress has been made over the last 72 hours. that same north korean official will be at the white house tomorrow. let's go to jim shooto, following the negotiations for us. we don't know, jim, if there will be a summit. what is happening seems to be extraordinary. >> reporter: no question. remember, it was a week ago the summit was off, the president releasing that letter. now, a week later, you have an unprecedented meeting with the u.s. secretary of state, senior north korean official here on u.s. soil. now, tomorrow, another unprecedented move, a north korean official visiting the white house to hand deliver a letter from the north korean leader. that said, on the two key questions, will there be a summit on june 12th and does the u.s. believe north korea is
ready to give up its nuclear questions? there's still not a hard answer. one week after it was off, secretary of state pompeo set an historic summit between president trump and kim jong-un could be back on. >> we have made progress toward that in the last 72 hours. >> reporter: the talks in new york were, by themselves, a first in a string of remarkable firsts. the u.s. secretary of state meeting face-to-face with a senior north korean official on u.s. soil, laying the groundwork for a ground breaking summit between the country's leaders. >> this is going to be a process that will take days and weeks to work our way through. there will be tough moments. there will be difficult times. i have had difficult conversations with them as well. they have given it back to me, too. >> reporter: pompeo emphasizeed pyongyang must make a gesture to prove they are serious about denuclearizing. and he left no wiggle room as to
what denuclearization means to the u.s. >> i have been very clear. president trump and the united states objective is consistent and well known. the complete, verifiable and reversible denuclearization in fact korean peninsula. >> reporter: in exchange, offering north korea a, quote, brighter future. however, after several meetings with his north korean counter parts, secretary pompeo granted, it is not clear if north korea will give up its weapons. >> i believe they are contemplating a path forward to make a strategic shift, one they have not been prepared to make before. this will be their decision. >> reporter: the north korean dell inauguration will take one more unprecedented step on friday, traveling to the white house to hand deliver a message from kim jong-un to president trump. >> a letter is going to be delivered to me from kim jong-un. so, i look forward to seeing what is in the letter.
but, it's very important to them. >> reporter: trump, himself, acknowledged a june 12th summit in singapore might only be a starting point. >> hopefully we'll have a meeting on the 12th. it's going along very well. i want it to be meaningful. it doesn't mean it gets done in one meeting. maybe you have to have a second and a third. maybe we'll have none. >> we just learned the north korean leader might have a busy year meeting world leaders in addition to a u.s. summit if it comes off. north korean media indicating russia and north korean leaders will meet this year. russia wants to be involved in the go the negotiation. china has wanted to be involved in the talks. the north korean leader visited beijing. they want to be involved in a final outcome. drawing your attention and our attention to the warding used on
the key question whether north korea communicated it is ready to denuclearize, by the definition, they say they are contemplating, he says, he believes a path forward. still thinking about it. if that issue is not resolved raises questions as to what the summit will accomplish, if it does come off. wolf? >> the north koreans are getting international respect. the fact that this north korean official is invited to washington and the white house with a meeting with the president. they want to be recognized as an international power. good reporting, thank you. coming up, a frightening terror plot is revealed. an isis supporter wanted to target prince george. he is only 4 years old. plus, president trump touches off a new political fire storm pardoning a conservative pundit.
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speaking to terrorism and security experts warn this glamorous family generating so much attention now may have to deal with more of these threats in the future. an adorable four-year-old, one of britain's most loved royals. he is third in line to be king. tonight, there's increasing concern he could be a terror target. prince george according to british authorities attracted the interest of an isis sympathizer who pled guilty to terrorism charges. rashied in an online campaign encouraged jihadists to target the young prince. >> when a terrorist says target, in this case it means a kill. could also mean to kidnap. >> british officials say he tried to offer a road map, publishing the address of prince george's school. the royals are no strangers to high profile terror threats. in 1979 lord mount batten, prince charles' grand uncle was assassinated by the ira, a bomb
destroying his yacht off the coast of ireland. >> the fact a high level royal was killed by a terrorist organization really upped the game for the ira, showed they are a lethal, potent force. the fact that the ira in subsequent years tried to kill queen elizabeth shows they're a force to be reckoned with. >> they have never been more visible than they are now. according to the business valuation firm, the royal family generates over $2 million for the uk economy every year. analysts say this spring's royal wedding will only add to that. >> we're already seeing strong growth, so 15%, you know, over the last year and we would like to use this occasion to cement that growth. our american staff tell us they can see that confidence in the market. >> so for terrorists, especially a decimated group like isis,
desperately in need of a propaganda score, the royals are an appealing target, even if the attack doesn't succeed. >> the royal couples are some of the most well known british citizens in history right now, if you target this four-year-old boy and you're isis, you can cause all kinds of mayhem in british society. you can cause folks to generate incredible amount of sympathy for your cause and that's something that isis and their isis wannabes want to do. they want to bring sympathy and bring more recruits, more media splash to their cause. >> terrorism experts say there's an added security risk with the younger generations of the royal family. meghan markle, kate middleton, and the princes they say are much more inclined to mingle with big crowds, to shake hands, hug people in large public gatherings. that risk will likely only grow in the future, so british security services have to be on top of all that, wolf. >> certainly do. brian todd, thank you.
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reprieve to celebrity ex-con martha stewart. is he sending a signal to robert mueller's witnesses? steve bannon blasting intelligence insiders as he weighs in on mr. trump's debunked spy conspiracies. stand by to hear from bannon in a new interview. kim jong-un's ex-spy enforcer is headed to washington to deliver a letter. is the summit back on. vile and vicious. the white house condemns a vulgar remark about ivanka trump, samantha bee is apologizing. is there comparison on the president's daughter and racist tweets that got roseanne barr fired? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf