tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN June 6, 2018 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
interview. stay tough. i like the show. thank you for liking it, the team's great that's why it's a good show. you can't have it both ways. you got to disagree with decency. tonight we'll go one on one with bernie sanders. that's all for us. thanks for watching. let's get after it again tomorrow, cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. feeling the burn tomorrow. thank you very much chris, appreciate that. this is "cnn tonight" i'm don lemon. new story that's in the stormy daniels saga. new stories between michael cohen and her ex-lawyer. her alleged text between cowen and keith davidson. rudy giuliani tells an audience in israel that the first lady does not believe her husband had an affair with stormy daniels. in true giuliani style he count leave it there.
watch this. >> she believe in her husband, she knows it's not true. i don't think there's a question that is isn't true, excuse me, whether you look at stormy daniels. i know donald trump, look at his three wives, right. beautiful women, classy women, women of great substance. stormy daniels. the business you were in entitles you to no degree of giving your credibility any weight. and secondly, explain to me how she could did badged? she has no representation. if you're willing to sell your body for money you just don't have a representation. >> that's just a cheap shot. another attempt to distract and deflect from what's really at issue here. it's disgusting that he said that. stormy daniels' appearance. whatever rude giuliani thinks has nothing to do with her credibility. the fact she's a porn star, something she's been honest
about has nothing to do with her credibility. her lawsuit will be decided in court based on the fact as it should be. and her torn, michael avenatti, listen to what he told anderson a while ago. >> mr. giuliani is an absolute pig for making that comment. he's basically stating that women involved in the industry or other form, porn nothing if i has no respect. i hope we don't reach a place with rudy giuliani is going to decide which women deserve respect owner. he should be fired immediately by the president. >> michael avenue naut will be here later on in the show, we'll talk to him. but toipt get into stormy daniels' new lawsuit. joining me cnn legal analyst,
jennifer rodgers a former prosecutor. i just can't help it, you guys gasped when you heard rudy giuliani. that was. >> yes, there's a separate of legal versus moral. legal become it is question of damages. what are the damages she may get or not get based on representation. et cetera. okay. fine. we can talk about damages at some point about what they would be. but the notion, that, oh, look at his other three wives, and look at her. and therefore, of course that means that this couldn't have happened. i mean, even the most fervent of trump supporters i think, at the very least think, yeah, i think that's possible. and most people in the country, based on every poll that identify seen believed that he had an affair with her. so, this notion that it's absurd based on the way she looks and
what she does is incredibly insulting obviously. but also doesn't make a lot of sense. >> jennifer if you want to respond and get to the substance of this. >> getting to what trump say about the women who accused him of sexual assault. he said they weren't hot enough. >> keith david -- thcolewded to manipulate her. >> basically what he's using is he's saying, look at all these text messages between them at a relevant time. they're talking to about possible appearances on t.v., et cetera, this shows you they're working together. the bottom line is, once it's clear that there is a semi in place, lawyers talk to each other all the time about how we're going to go ab.
what are you going to be saying. are we good here, et cetera. what avenatti's trying to do is get discovery. he wants to try to move the case forward to get more information, more text messages, et cetera. but this is likely a lucid lawsuit. >> if you look at it, right, it appears to be really cozy. there was a report setside earlier sort of a cozy relationship. >> but lawyers are cozy, lawyers in a particular industry that do these kinds of lawsuits, you get to know the people on the other side and it can be frustrating for the clients. it could be anything from real estate to divorce, you fame it. the people on both sides tend to know each other -- >> you don't think it's unusual? >> no i don't. >> this is january 2018 tech mnls between the two men.
cohen writes to davidson i have her tentatively scheduled for to day. >> cohen response, it's really important. why. cohen later more frustrated writes, this is no good, we need her by tomorrow. you just greeted another news cycle instead of putting an end to this one. apparently he wanted stormy daniels to deny the comments she made in that interview. do you see anything illegal? >> i see it differently, nothing illegal. i do think that she knows about the relationship between her and keith davidson. there may be things there, she may know he was the only one who knew she was planning to change counsel and come out with these allegations. she may know things that make what keith davidson was doing contrary to her interest and that may be a problem because he does owe her a duty of loyalty. i don't know if that will extend
to michael cohen, he didn't owe her a duty of loyal, she don't know what they said between themselves. she doesn't know at this point, that's what discovery's for. to me it might somebody that there's a -- >> so the bar association complaint is different from i should win a lawsuit. if you want to say he had an obligation, he didn't live up to that, there's certain concerns, that's a separate question. we're talking about here are damages going to happen and should there be a whole trial can discovery et cetera. my point is, i don't think this case seems forward, do you disagree with that? >> i think it might go forward. she may have to amend her complaint. it is actionable, i think the problem is damages, i don't know where damage is going to be. >> one more and i'll give it to you dan. this is the same date, let's forget tonight, they would rather tomorrow so they can patrolmen the heck out of the
show. cohen later says, the wise men all believe the story is dying down and don't think it's smart for her to do any interviews. let her do her thing but no interviews at all with anyone. davidson replies, agreement 100%. cohen writes, thanks, pal. so, i don't want to believe he said the wise man is president trump. >> could be. let's not forget, she got $130,000 out of this. that's not to suggest that that's bad, wrong or horrible or anything. let's provide the context necessary here. she's given a $130,000 pay off. the question comes off is what can be said, what can't be said. it's not that sufficing to me it's a discussion between the lawyers. michael avenatti's going to say, this show's that he violated his duty to her. e agree with jennifer, the notion that you're going to drag michael cohen into that, more of
a long shot. this is not an easy lawsuit. you can say we're angry, upset, lawyers shouldn't do this. but for them to say we're going to win a silver lawsuit and get discovery, we'll see. i could be wrong. >> she said you're wrong. >> she's not saying i'm wrong, she's saying maybe they could amend the lawsuit. >> there's video tapes and tweets even let's go bigger picture, i'm wondering if all of this is going to come out in a criminal investigation. this law also talks about communications from michael cohen. what do you think of that? >> we'll see. the u.s. attorney's office have these things. if their relevant in a criminal investigation, either way the prosecutors will get them and decide if their relevant for charging. we'll see, apparently cohen recorded a lot of thing. if they become public avenatti might be able to use them. >> thai got until the 15th to be
able to finish reviewing everything. mr. abrams you got a new book out. can you add anything that is current that resembles the current landscape now? >> the book is about a huge murder trial where lincoln defended someone accused of murder nine months before he got the republican nomination. number one, no political leader would ever take a controversial case nine months before and looking for a nomination today. i think the divide that we saw there, i hole hope it's not as bad as it was back then. but the divide, as we were in 1859 when this trial happened, as the country was completely franc you aring around the issue of slavery, i hope we're not at that point and i think that a lot of people are saying, you
know there are comparisons to be made between that time and where we are today. as we looked back at that case, and i thought about the timing, and the country, i couldn't help think about where we are today. >> i think we're pretty frakt chured? >> we're increedably fractured but i don't think we're on the verge of having a civil war. but things were so fractured you had the southern state saying, we don't want to be a part of this anymore. this is a compelling murder case that we write about in this book that could be held today in other words. >> i think we're in a civil war. we're not fighting -- >> i hope not. >> i think we are politically. >> but a rhetorical war is different from what happened in the four-year civil war. i guess i'm still hopeful that our system is strong enough to
withstand the challenges its currently withstanding. >> i hope so swell. jennifer thinks. appreciate it, the book is call "lincoln's trial." when we come back the attorney says he has no republican for stormy daniels because of her choice. rudy giuliani says he republicans beautiful women and beautiful women of value. he calls his boss a new gentle man. you're going to want to hear this conversation. we have a short amount of time to get our patient to the hospital with good results. we call that the golden hour. evaluating patients remotely is where i think we have a potential to make a difference. (barry murrey) we would save a lot of lives if we could bring the doctor to the patient. verizon is racing to build the first
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rudy giuliani's defense of president trump may be doing more harm than good. the president's attorney tries to cast doubt on stormy daniels' credibility with insults and attorney michael avenatti is fighting back. let's bring in the panel, good evening to all of you. thank you for joining us. kirsten, rudy giuliani speaking out about stormy daniels. listen to this. >> excuse me, when you look at stormy daniels, i know donald trump and -- >> let's respect her. >> look at his three wives. beautiful women. women of substance. stormy daniels. >> we have to respect on this
stage every woman. >> yes, i respect porn stars. don't you respect porn stars? or do you think important stars desecrate women? do you think porn stars disrespect women and sell their bodies. yes, i respect all human beings. i even have to republican, you know criminals. i'm sorry i don't respect a porn star the way i represent a career woman or a woman of substance or a woman who has great respect for herself as a women or as a person that isn't going to sell her body for actual exploitation. >> what do you think? where is he going with this k r kirsten? >> there's no other way to take this other than a massagist rant. to tie someone's integrity to them being an adult film actress there's no there there. if you want to say she doesn't have integrity for some other
reason there's something that you know about her then bring it up. you can't just say this person does something that i don't approve of so therefore she doesn't have integrity. that's not the way that it works. you should have respect for people just on basic human level. i think we should just republican her regardless of what she does for a living and let the facts lead us to our decision about whether or not what he's say g is true owner. >> he said in that answer guys, three wives right? and he cheated on one or two of them. does he have republican for a cheater? he paid off a porn star that he is criticizes. does he have respect for that? anyone can take this. go. >> i have to take for that. i think anyone whose followed rudy giuliani throughout his career, when he was mayor of new
york. rudy giuliani openly had an affair on his second wife with the person who became his third wife. >> his wife found out. >> in a press conference, he sort of had an open sort of affair. so rudy's not the guy to be playing the morality card. what we also see is that, rudy is in the public eye again, relevant again for the first time in many many years. and he's doing the best he can to protect his client and frankly, he's serving his client well but spitting up media attention about the thing that he says because he's deflecting attention away from his client. what we know about his client and frankly stephany clifford, stormy daniels. she seems to be more consistently a truth teller than rudy giuliani's client. >> yeah. more of giuliani. listen. >> so stormy, you want to bring a case, let me cross examine
you. the business you're in entitles you to no degree of giving your credibility any weight. and secondly, explain to me how she could be damaged? she has no reputation. if you're going to sell your body for money you just don't have a reputation. >> anne, what's your take on this? >> my take on this is that it's a ran. i think kristin's right about that. his client probably enjoyed it and thought it was helpful and saw nothin wrong with it. so, giuliani is kind of performing the role of surrogate. -on how much legal work he's doing. that's the other question. is he speaking here as oppose of a lawyer, that's what his job title is. or as a surrogate? he's making these comments in israel, what's he doing in israel giving a speech. it's also confusing.
i think he's been playing more of the role of public spokesman stirring up drama around himself. i've heard from people in the white house first they were confused and worried about him. and now they're thinking, great he's drawing the fire over there, he's their avenatti. i think he won't hear any complaints from his client. >> kirsten he slammed stormy daniels' credibility. but marge margaret talked about his personal life and what have you. his credibility for the moment, he's working hard to help the president. giuliani has a 29% favorability rating, 44% unfavorable. is he the one that really should be talking? >> no, of course not. yes, he's acting like this moral orbter when he as margaret just talked about, everybody who lived new york watched him do
it. he openly claeted on his wife and informed her through the press conference she was being divorced. he is in no position whatsoever. and even talking about the three wives, somehow that says something about trump. hold on, again he openly cheated, at least with marla maples we know that. len let's not get all high and mighty about this. i feel like we're watching sort of this like, white male entitlement with people who just haven't gotten the memo yet. this isn't how it works anymore. i think there was a time unfortunately where he could have said that and gotten away with it. people would have said, oh yeah, who are you. or people used to say you can't rape a porn actress or prostitute. that's not the world, thankfully we live in anymore. >> let's what michael avenatti
said earlier on cnn. >> mr. gilani is an absolute pig for making those comments. he's stating that women engage in the adult film industry or other form of pornography don't have reputations and isn't entitled to respect. i hope we're not going to reap a place where giuliani is going to decide which women deserve respect or not. his comments are pig gish, outrage in today's day and age and should be fire ld immediately by the president. if the president doesn't fire him as his personal attorney and condone this behavior, i think it's disgusting is an outrage. >> margaret. >> actually michael avenatti should know better. he's securing him an opposition and actually their foils to each other. giuliani is the equipment of avenatti within the white house. they're these two that keep
doing back and forth and keep the attentions off the serious issues, what's happening in north korea, there are incredibly important issues this country is facing and instead we go for the cabinet, we go for what giuliani, the moral card he played and that's not what significant or relevant to the way this country is conducting its business. >> well, he's representing the president. >> margaret, i don't agree with that. i'm surprised you said you don't think it's an important issue. i think it is important his lawyer was speaking this way about another woman. how is that not an important issue? >> yeah, kirsten i hear you, and on that fact it is. i'm not trying to -- to your point minimize how rudy giuliani is speaking about women. but he's playing a clear role
which is to distract. and giuliani has become the gaslighter on the company to distract serious issues. by the way, it's important how the president and his attorney talk about women but what's more at stake when it comes to the rule of law, nuclear disarmament and the korean peninsula and there's many many issues we could be spending our time talking about. it's unfortunately we're talking about the month ralt of giuliani and donald trump. >> watch this. >> can you tell us how does she feel this days with all the stormy daniels going on in the background and not stepping up to -- >> i can't speak for melania. >> but you're a personal friend. >> i am and i -- she believes her husband, she knows it's not true. i don't think there's a something like that suspicion that it's true. >> so, he said he's not going to speak for melania and then he
proceeds to speak for her. melania has tried to stay above the fray in all of this and he brings her into it anne. >> yeah. that was remarkable to me. melania was used twice today. in the morning trump tweeted, used her to state an attack on the media claiming that the media created a conspiracy theory about her long absence and accused her of having a facelift, i'm sure she didn't want him advancing those conspiracy on his twitter feed. and giuliani uses her to discredit stormy daniels. it's quite a way to use a spouse, the first lady who has not commented on this to draw her into it like this and say he can't speak for her. i thought that was shocking. also that rudy giuliani jumped into this completely, i think it's notable that donald trump, the president that doesn't hold himself back from saying what's on his mind has been reticent to
speak about stormy daniels. she's been notably absent from her tweet. i'm sure to see what happened next. donald trump would not have missed this rant from his lawyer and i don't know if this will draw him into speaking about her when he has done a good job of not so far. >> anne, margaret, kirsten thank you i appreciate it. michael avenatti's going to join me in a little bit so stay tuned. i want to get his reaction on giuliani's comments. when we come back. giuliani's comments about women are just the beginning, he's also claiming that robert mueller's team is trying to claim the president, with absolutely no evidence of that.
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and mr. ama rhie -- so phill, the president's lawyer, giuliani keeps try to discredit the special counsel's investigation. listen to this. >> they are a group of 13 highly part of the democrats that make up the mueller team, excluding him, are trying very very hard to frame him, to get him in trouble when he han done anything wrong. now, they may not know they're doing it, they may not realize their doing it. they can't emotionally come to grips with the fact that this who he had russian collusion didn't happen. they're trying to invent theory of obstruction of justice. the president fired the fbi director, he has the right to fire department the fbi director. the president should have fired the fbi director he was a terrible fbi director. >> he's saying mueller's team trying to frame the president,
of course he has no evidence of that. would the mueller you know ever ever frame up a guy, let alone the president of a country, the person he has served his whole life? >> don, this is so painful, i spent 4 1/2 years with director mueller, was detailed to the fbi under director mueller. i was 150 feet down the hall from him. we did briefings, we used to do them at 7:00 or 7:15 in the morning. i never heard him comment about republicans or democrats. we'd sit down to the table he'd say what's the case? what's the evidence against some terrorist who tried to blow something up in new york or miami? then there's another piece that's hard to explain. i know americans can't explain this they never saw them, i did the personal robert mueller. the robert mueller as you know was decorated in the marines in
iran. in one of the fbi buildings it was five or six stories tall, he said wanted to go up to the roof, i want to see iowa going on in baghdad and what the city looks like. we went up on the roof, we were never under threat. maybe a mile, mile-and-a-half a mortifier. robert mueller, the former fbi director says i sort of -- this is interesting. it's the only time in 4 1/2 years i saw the secure detail get in the face of the fbi director and say, director, you're not going to watch mortifier from the roof of this building. people don't see what i see in his non-bipartisan in investigations. he was an interesting guy, smart guy. it wasn't what i saw, the picture that you see in the media, don. >> so he's talking about mueller's credibility.
does rudy giuliani have any credibility left now? >> well, i think at this point don, he's conjuring up tails. this is totally ungrounded from reality. there's no reason to believe that mueller is framing the president of the united states, that's an outrageous allegation. if we were having a beer with rudy giuliani he would tell us he knows tha not true but he's got to say what he has to say. i don't think anyone believes that, there's no evidence to suggest that and it's irresponsible. he's saying it in a foreign country in front of our allies. >> i got to push back on you on that. there are a lot of folks out there who believe it. lot of trump supporters. the diehard trump base. a lot of them are believing. if you watch the channel that's voted to the president, they believe it. >> you know, i have a lot of my family members who watch that television is voted for trump, but i will tell you there's no
evidence to support that. we're at a point now where there's not a factual hook they can go on. when they talk about spies in the campaign, there was a foreman who was around the campaign, here this was just made up. i don't know any fact that they could point to that will get you close to the idea of somebody being framed. that's a crime itself of framing someone of a crime. they're using the man who served this country of economying a crime. >> the claim was pushed back on as planting a spy in the campaign. do you think that's significant? >> i do. >> can we take a step back -- can we take a step back for a moment. did you ever take civics in high school, don? >> yeah. >> the executive branch the
intel guys in the executive branch say the guys meddled. the law enforcement investigate guys and department of justice, including appointees and fbi says this investigation is so significant we should continue. the legislative branch in concluding the house, most republicans saying no only is trump wrong but we see nothing wrong with the investigation. we forget about the judicial branch. who do you think, don authorizes these serges on people like paul manafort, that's judges. rudy giuliani wen from being not only new york's mayor but america's mayor and now he's two h hamburgers short of a picnic. what is he talking about? who do you believe, don, i think i know where i side. >> all right. thank you, gentlemen, i
appreciate the conversation. i'm not going to answer that but i think it's obvious. when we come bark, allison johnson is out of jail today after 21 years and all it took was a visit from kardashian to the oval office. why some people are concerned about how the president -- johnson's sentence. we'll be right back. ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪
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breaking news, allison johnson is a free woman, released tonight from federal prison. she is a first-time nonviolent drug offender who spent 21 years of a life time behind bars. her release coming one week after t.v. reality star met with trump to played her case. good evening, welcome to the program. so, van, i know that this was kim kardashain visited the president, obviously urged the president to do this, but wasn't she brought up in a meeting with you and jared kushner, good for kim, but there were other folks
involved in getting this done, correct? >> absolutely. this is something people should be very happy about. a number of factors came together. the family of miss johnson talking like cats and dogs for years. young female attorneys like brittany barnett, jessica jackie and others talking on this for a long time. a viral video that was created by young people wen all over the place and got this on the radar screen. >> is that out kim saw it? >> exactly. the mainstream media wasn't covering it but it went crazy on a viral video. you never know when you post something what's going to happen. jared kushner inside the white house says this was an important issue. his father had been to prison. you can't look at a 63-year-old grandmother who will die in prison, never get parole ever because of a nonviolent drug offense a decade ago. it all came together you got to give credit to these young female attorneys, and these
young video activists and you got to give credit to jared kushner. but kim kardashian walked in that white house, very few celebrities and athletes would do that. and she came out with a victory. you got to give her credit. >> why didn't president obama do it? >> president obama did more pardons and more come mutations than anybody. he had a huge operation to try to get that figured out. on this particular case i felt, a lot of people felt they were too cautious because she had negative associations earlier. they said we just don't feel comfortable. so many groups had her at the number one position on their list for come tagss under obama. i'm glad it got done under trump. i'm very very proud you can still eke out a chicken mcnugget even in the trump era. >> according to backobama
administration the -- johnson was heavily involved in a long stanning drug cartel that was connected to a lot of violence and crimes, she was never charged with that. mike, my question to you, does this white house know all of the facts if they aren't going through this official review process that all administrations, except for this one? >> i don't know. i think the president did a lot of this on his gut. i appreciate van for recognizes this is a good thing. he gave credit to a lot of people, he forget to mention president trump should get credit for this as well, i believe -- >> fair enough. >> the president is prone to people giving him an emotional appeal, i think that's what happened here. he heard this himself, he follows hi his gut. he doesn't follow the same procedures. he's someone whose ran an entire, you know, huge international company using his
gut, that's his style and how he's managing the presidency in the white house. he made this decision based on this as well. i suspect he'll probably do more of this. >> new house reality show, celebrity pardons, kardashian, martha stewart. with his new signature line, you're pardoned. he has a point, is that trump's new favor line, you're pardoned? >> well look, aisi'm thrilled f miss johnson, her family, president trump, but something different is going on here. she stand out for what she did. the other people he pardoned and talk about pardoning it's as though he's trying to give messages to people who are caught up in the mueller probe and he's trying to let them know, i can pardon you too. we got people who got campaign
finance violations, we got people who are charged with lying to federal authorities. so, you know, she's great, i'm happy it happened the way it did. but everybody else he's talking about pardoning he's getting messages -- >> criminal intent, christian mark, mishandled that information. a. >> right. >> so it's like -- >> can i say something? >> go for it. >> here's what i think the trump administration can now do going forward. when trump does -- >> van, can you hold that because they're telling me i got to get to a break. we'll be right back. crave, together in so many new ways. there's new cedar plank seafood bake. tender maine lobster and shrimp, cedar roasted to perfection. or new caribbean lobster and shrimp. sweet pineapple salsa on grilled rock lobster,
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it just doesn't make any sense. i think there should be a process this becomes systematic. i also want to point out a number of formerly incarcerated women people like topeka sanders and others went to the white house as well as kim kardashian and also made this appeal and that had an impact. >> that was the first question. that's why i gave you that first question. i'm so glad you added to it, you amended it. doesn't this contradict president trump's broader drug policy, you know, a stronger drug policy. tough on drug offenders, be as tough as possible? >> i don't think so. i think it's completely compatible to be tough on drugs, seal the border, stop drugs from coming into the it country and also take a look at a nonviolent person put away for what is
essentially too long for that type of crime. he's serious about the fact he's meeting with van and talk about it, first of all. second of all, he's serious about it because he's putting it into action. this is huge symbol. the whole point of this in some ways other than this woman and her life and family, is it sends a signals and allows people to continue to talk about it. i don't think there's going to be a process put in place. the process is what stopped her from getting out of jail, kelly. >> that's not true, mike. >> there was a process that went to the justice department. the just department in the process denied it and president obama didn't even see it. so that process kept her in prison for years listening to appeals personally is what got her out of jail. i'm going to keep talking even
though you're interrupting me. he wasn't a president-elected to be a process president. >> sometimes fairness is about process. sometimes fairness requires process, and i'm thrilled for ms. alice, and i'm thrilled for her family but i think we also do need a process. i think its unfortunate that the president let go of that process. i never bet against van, but i don't know that i'm that optimistic about prison reform. i know i'm not optimistic about sentencing reform, the things eric holder put into place and loretta lynch put into place, those things are not going to be followed through. so the real systemic challenge is not being changed here. >> van, go ahead. >> i think that you are right on the sentencing question. but i think on prison reform i
think you will see more of this in large part because jared kushner, i disagree with him on 99 things, but prisons are not one. jared kushner is proving to be an advocate inside that building and i think that's a positive thing. >> how do you decide then, if you don't go through a process? i guess that's part of the pardoning powers. >> i would recommend a process. don, listen, i've been doing this as you know 25 years. i think a process would serve the president belttter, serve t public better. thank you, appreciate it. van jones is going to sit down with the woman behind this pardon. it premieres right here on our show tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern. we're going to play a premier of it right here on this show so make sure you tune in tomorrow. when we come back stormy daniels filing a new lawsuit.
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this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. 11:00 p.m. here on the east coast. in the stormy daniels saga the porn star filing a new lawsuit against michael cohen and her ex-attorney claiming they colluded to manipulate her in a lawsuit text between stormy daniels's attorney and keith davidson. that as rudy giuliani takes a cheap shot at daniels. claiming she has no credibility because she's a porn star. her attorney michael avenatti is firing back, and he joins me now. you say that stormy's former lawyer, keith davidson, colluded with michael cohen to manipulate stormy by getting her to appear on shawn hannity and fal