tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN June 8, 2018 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
you earlier ate noodles and drank beer with tony. he taught us about food and more importantly about the ability to bring us together, make us less afraid of the unknown. we miss him finally his girlfriend on twitter. anthony gave all of himself and everything that he did. his brilliant fearless spirit touched and inspired so many and his generosity knew no bonds. he was my love, my rock my protector. i'm beyond devastated but my thoughts are which is family i would ask you to respect their privacy and mine. on a personal note my brother died by suicide 30 years ago. not a day goes by i do not think about him and not a day goes by i don't ask the question why. sometimes there isn't a clare answer or an answer that doesn't make sense to someone not no deep pain, pain to comprehend unless you've been there. remember there is help.
1-800-273-falk is the number for the suicide prevention life line. people there 7 days a woke, 24 hours a day. help a phone call away. remember a special broadcast at 10:00 p.m. eastern remembering anthony bourdain. time to hand it over to chris cuomo for cuomo primetime which starts now. thank you, anderson. i'm chris cuomo. well to primetime. this is a very difficult day for all of us at cnn. anthony bourdain, the chef who game a household name and a standout figure in the cnn family is gone. >> look. anthony bourdain. who are you? i have a pretty good idea who i'm not at this point. who i am, who knows the answer to that? you know, i will be judged by, you know, the people who remember me and quickly forget me. >> that was one of the few times that tony bourdain got people wrong.
he is not going to being forgotten any time soon. what a loss, just 61 years of age. host of the award-winning series parts unknown took his life in a hotel room in france. it's hard for us working with him but that is nothing compared to the pain for family and friends and most of all his 11-year-old daughter arian. we are thinking of them and we are here if they need anything. now in just a minute we talk with one of tony's friends. a chef andrew discipler who worked with tony and stayed close until his death. tony's life was marked by unique style. cull near curiosity and warned wander lust. and common touch. and but his death and echo of loss of another figure kate spade looms large of a playing we have ignored. suicide. cdc released a report yesterday showing an uptick in rates in
every state but nevada between '99 and 2016. suicide stole nearly 45,000 lives cross the u.s. in 2016. 25 states had suicide rates of more than 30%. 54% more than half who have taken their life did not have a known mental health condition. and for everyone who dies hundreds try and thankfully fail. often more than once. this is a crisis that spares no one. gender, creed, color, our military, been hit particularly hard. roughly 20 veterans a day die by suicide nationwide according to the v.a. the prevention hotline is going to be up for the duration of the show. if you need it, use it. but we understand there are many who will not come forward on their own. so later in the show we're going to give you a tool that you can
use that has been shown to be a live saver literally. but here at the top of the show let's not lose sight of the man who is now gone. for some perspective on tony let's bring in tv personality and fellow chef andrew zimmern. >> thank you for being with us. sorry for your loss. >> thank you, chris. nice to be here. >> how are you doing? >> hanging in there. i mean, i have my own mental health issues that i've been pretty outspoken about. i'm -- i've never been more grateful. it's probably been many years since i've been this grateful to have as much support as i've built around me and an incredible outpouring from friends and family, and others checking in on me which is fantastic and great support. pu also really buoyed by the
impact tony had during his time on earth. i think what's given me just enough of a wrinkle of hope and positivity on the day is seeing the incredible impact that he has had on our planet. although then 30 seconds later i realize that's why i miss him more and feel we got short changed. >> how did you find out? >> i woke up -- i'm shooting in philadelphia where i'm coming to you from right now. my phone literally started beeping incoherently early this morning with notes from mutual friends of ours and close people who had told me the news. and -- at first it -- i thought it was the sickest joke that had
ever been played until i started to see you know that there were 40 messages on my -- on my phone memos. i realized, my god, this isn't a joke. and i read -- i opened the first one i forget who it was from. and i swung my knees over the edge of my bed. and i always do a little morning spiritual check-in. and i just started crying. it was -- it was so, so sad. i've been fortunate enough to be friends with tony for about 13, 14 years now. although we have -- we put it together over many dinners and phone calls and texts over the years that, you know, we had bumped into each other, we were both cooking new york a long time ago in the 'it's 80s and '90s. we both and ied the same college, he several year before me. our paths were always
crisscrossing. it was one of the clings early on when we started working at the fame same network allowed us to become faster friends than most. tony was delightfully cynical. he was someone you needed to prove yourself out to. he didn't cotton to mediocrity of any kind. there was no time to waist on anything that was average. he did everything with gusto and style and class and smarts. and if -- if you wanted -- if you wanted to be his friend, you feed to be you. he didn't like falsity of any kind. and i can't think of a friend of mine that could sniff it ou faster than he could, either personally or professionally. and i think that was the key to
his great talent as a transcriber and interpreter of global culture, not just related to food but to music, art, i mean to movies. tony knew more about movies than any other friend that i had. he was an amazing man. and an incredible chronicler of our times. as a culinarian, one of the handful of people when they write a become about era 100 years from now, his name will be in there. he change the nature of the relationship that real chefs in real restaurants have to patrons and food and most importantly their own professions. and i think that's probably his greatest contribution. he changed the rules of the game completely. i was talking to a -- a mutual friend earlier, and, you know, in the '80s, his food network was being created, there was no -- people didn't have the
internet in the palm of their hand. and we were used to chefs in white coats making things fancy. and food network was all talking heads behind cutting boards. and along came this short piece in new york magazine that became the book kitchen confidential that absolutely changed the way we look at chefs in restaurants. and almost overnight single-handedly evaporated one type of chef from our consciousness and elevated another chef into our consciousness. and he showed us the beautiful pirate ship of kitchen. >> the pirateship. >> around the country and in the world. >> yes. >> a pirateship. >> it's the right way to put it. >> it is. and he was -- he was an incredible -- for anyone who played team sports or worked in a kitchen or on a tv crew or anything where you have the
camaraderie and they can relate to that. but he was one of the most important cultural interpreters of our time. >> and unique. he would correct me and say it's not about the food it's about the people and the culture and the connection. and he was so so right it starts with the food maybe in the interest in the show but it goes well beyond. let me ask you, when was the last time you spoke to your friend? >> we shared a couple of texts and a phone call two or three weeks ago. in. >> any indication he was in a bad place? >> no. no, not at all. the last couple of times i spoke to him i remarked to other friends of mine that i had never seen him as happy. he told me that in his -- in his relationship with his girlfriend not only had he never been happier but he never liked himself more. those were his words.
and we -- we actually were -- we had the occasion to text and then talk about a generous moment at an awards show that spike lee demonstrated to his girlfriend walking across the room to speak with her after an awards show in europe where she spoke out loudly about the hashtag me too issues of the day. >> sure. >> and he -- he knew that spike lee had done something very generous to a member of my family that is -- has some mental health issues. and we -- we conversed it about it at length. it's interesting that you talked about the -- the unimportant nature of food to the conversation that tony liked to have with his audience in his shows. and that's true.
we used to both joke that if we were doing shows, as long as you tell the same stories we could plastic solo cups. >> i thought he was going to take a turn in his life. >> food is a lot tastier. >> how so. >> when we would talk about his show and his passions i love food and cook but i didn't have that cull near bond with tony. one day he asked me, what are you passionate about what is your thing. >> nothing really. typical stuff, family, whatever. i love to fight -- and his eyes got so big. and he had recently discovered bjy brazilian jujitsu and so passionate about it. the last time i spoke about his new season he said i know what i love about it, the struggle. and i thought that was so interesting, especially someone living a life of recovery as he was, that he loved the struggle,
the difficulty of figuring ways through it and how to get out of it. and i thought that was such a reflection of his resilience and what he had learned about himself. and then this how do you make sense of it, andrew? >> i -- i don't make sense of it at all. i've lost many friends to suicide. i've been sober for 27 years and i've seen a lot of people not make it. i've seen a lot of people relapse and take their own lives. i've seen -- i've had a lot of friends who, you know, have done the suicide by accidental overdose. and it is -- it is something that you can never make sense of. and, you know, i think that, you know, in a few cases we can point to friends who have battled horrific depression very publicly. you know the robin williams comes to mind as someone who was
very open about his struggle. and so when -- when the news came of robin williams's death, i -- and i did not have a personal relationship with the man. but there was a small piece of it that made sense. as if anything could make sense of someone being in so much pain. >> right. >> that the only way out was to take their own life. i did not see that in my friend tony. and i'm -- i actually am -- the thing i'm -- i'm most afraid of right now is some -- some horrific thing that i didn't know about coming out, you know, in the news, in the next couple of days. and i pray that it doesn't. because i'd rather be struggling with i don't know why than having some reason put in front of me and thinking that maybe there was something i could have
done or said to help him. the idea that any human being, let alone someone you care about who is your friend, who has been there for you. tony was always there for me whenever i wanted to talk about struggling in may own life. and was always far more interested in other people or news of the day than talking about himself. but i would -- you know, the idea that we -- we go to bed at night after night in so much pain until finally that's the only solution that comes to mind, to think of a friend or a loved one in that situation is just -- it's agonizing me right now. and my heart is breaking for, you know, the people who loved him, his girlfriend. >> yes. >> his wives, his daughter who -- i have relationships with many of those people. and it's a very sad day for all of us. in the professional cull near
world, in the world of television and storytelling where i come from. >> right. >> and for his fans all over the world. >> absolutely. >> tony understood the power of travel as well as anyone. he almost created the idea himself. as americans especially we devour other culture was our mouths first. >> well said. >> we take in and accept other cultures through food, which is why tony starts with food. >> right. >> which is why i start with food. but what's more important than food and tony few better than anyone are people and their stores >> absolutely. >> the things you can learn on the road that transform you. and then you hope bit by bit to import a little bit of that back into your day to day life once you get back home, the things you lrn on the road. we're better versions of ourselves on the road. and i think tony loved the version of himself that was on the road, that struggle that you talked about. >> well so many others did as
well, andrew. and i have to tell you, i know this is a terrible time. my hope is that by talking about him and remembering the beauty of your friendship and what he meant to everybody else it will bring you a little bit of solace in a very difficult time. thank you for stopping your shooting to talk to us. i appreciate it. chef andrew zimmern thank you for doing. really i am sorry for your loss. later we'll have more about tony. and another member of our cnn family is going to join with us a very personal story that will teach us about the pain of suicide for those left behind. plus, we really have something for you that you're going to want to stick around for. it has been proven to help you save someone who cannot save themselves. but straight ahead, the tense summit with six of our greatest allies, and the reason behind president trump wanting to add another seat at the table for russia, next. what do you have there?
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we're in the midst of the two of the biggest international moments of the trump presidency. the north korea summit and trump's call to add russia back to the g 7. let's go through the big points, okay. what do i have? we know lab -- well actually we know very little about the strategy on both fronts. but it's the outside optics concerning. first north korea. president trump went from being very tough to now all love for a known murderous despot. why here is the gamble. by showing the love trump is hoping for peace. but look at the give and the get. this murderous regime has wanted for generations to get this type of seat at the table. and trump is hoping that he will get back nuke free peace pu. but it's a big bet because north korea hasn't had to give up anything to get the gift of in summit. and they have never made good on this promise before. that's the concern. you are giving a lot what do you get back? russia now. what are you getting for the
love to putin? nothing. very unclear with this g 7 strategy. the president dropped this nugget before he ended up to the meeting in quebec. >> now breaking news, the white house says the u.s. along with other world leaders is kicking russia out of the g 8. this comes after a senior u.s. defense official tells cnn on the ukraine russia border, russia quote has enough troops they could move against ukraine at any time now. donald trump has has never looked and sounded better that was erin burnett explaining why russia was kicked out. what the president said today is we have to add them become. they have to have a seat at the table. no one wants that. why? because of what you heard erin say. they got rid of them from the g 8 for good reason? what. forcibly an exed from ukraine.
the land grab we haven't seen since world war ii. russia is still there. and putting says he will never leave. then after crimea what happened in 298 people blown out of the sky on flight mh 17. i was there in ukraine. i saw the troops speaking with russian accents, often in russian uniforms died by russia as being there. refusing to let the dead receive any respect. we heard their subtle and in your face threats that there was more to come. and russia does keep doing more. poisoning spies and hacking the power grid and hacking our election and other country elections. no apologies. just chaos. no apologies. yet trump wants to give them this gift. let's get after it with a trump campaign adviser who worked in russia and knows the issues well. michael caputo is here.
help me understand. lead with strength that's trump on everyone but putin. once again he is trying to be nice to a man who imagined aiming missiles at trump's house. why does he want to give russia a seat at the table? >> well i think the president -- and in the run up to the election talked a lot about wanting a better relationship with russia, just like president george w. bush did. just like bill clinton did, just like barack obama did. and he had optimistic hopes for a better relationship. i think that's squandered now considering the things that have gone down between our nations especially in syria and elsewhere. >> so much has change, right. i get what he was saying before. who doesn't want better relation was any super, or close to superpower. then you go on the facts and circumstances. you you have the russian interference, everything else going on. do you agree with the move to give them a seat at the table?
>> no, i don't. i don't separate myself from the president on very many issues. this is one where i separate myself. you know, i lived in russia in the '90s when the g 7 they called it, they tried to enlarge to the g 8 with refresh. the g 7 office in moscow headed that office my friend. and they tried to put russia threw tests and have things change in the country for the better. and in many ways, whether civil liberties. >> right. >> or free press or even economics before they considered them to be the bolshoi. and allowing them again without -- i've always thought that until the murder of the forbes editor is beirut to justice. i don't want to see russia in the family of man. until the murder of boris nemtsov is brought to justice i don't want this.
>> many people don't know those names. they can google them and find find out. but you have 298 lives unaccounted for in terms of who took them. >> we know it was the russians that shot them down. >> a russian launcher. i'm fine with going on the facts. i wish there was more urnlts by the obama administration and this one. but here is what i don't get. i don't get the disconnect. you don't agree with the move. you're like a lot of people around the president you argue he wants to be strong on russia. he has been strong. but this happens and you don't call it out as either a real hypocrisy or just a move that is dangerous and shows that something is amiss somewhere in his motivations. why now? which not more people saying trump should have never said this? this is a mistake, don't do it. >> i don't know the motivations for it. i'm not being called into the oval office to give advice
but if i were i would urge him not to do it. if the g 7 should do the same thing they did if the 90s and set up the operation in '90s and urge them threw a process make sure they deserve it. >> that would be being tough. i don't see how et cetera being tough on this guy. i don't get it. i can't imagine any other leader who could get away with donald trump with pretending to aim missiles at his house. do you remember that video where putin says here is the new capability that we have. and they put up a map of florida and simulate missiles coming down where mar-a-lago is. and trump said nothing. why, michael? >> um-hum, yeah. well, i remember when ronald regan said we're bombing in five minutes. there is a lot of miscommunication between nations. i got to believe that putin understands that donald trump's military killed 400 russians in
syria when they attacked -- you know a base that contained american military men. i got to believe that -- that the sanctions and other things that are still up against the russians between the americans and russians those things are taken seriously. i believe the people i know in russia are confused. they don't know what to expect next from donald trump. perhaps this is a way, this g 8 proposal is part of a bigger strategy. my problem is i don't think russia is anywhere near ready for a reentry to the g 7, to the g 8. and there is a long onboarding process between now and then. >> it would be nice to know what's motivating this. for sure. let me ask you something else more clear. the special counsel comes down new charges against paul manafort, a man you know well. witness tampering, obstruction of justice. not the kinds of things that an innocent man does. not to prejudge, innocent until proven guilty. but rarely do you see somebody innocent tampering with witnesses. how do you explain this.
>> i haven't seen the evidence. i don't believe -- i mean this is out of character for paul manafort to do this. >> i've seen it. >> that filing is thick and they have tons of communications. >> i've seen it too. >> they show a clear effort. >> i don't believe that paul did what's alleged. i don't know exactly what konstantin kilimnik, the russian ukrainian indicted in this new filing. i think we're going to see more of this kind of hard push tactics on paul manafort because he is not declaring -- not pleading guilty and refusing to give information that doesn't exist on president trump's alleged collusion with russia. >> how do you know it doesn't exist why would the special counsel. >> as far as i know it doesn't exist. >> that's a difference very different. >> as far as i know it doesn't exist. but i don't believe -- i understand. but i don't believe -- i think paul's stuck in a bad spot just
like papadopoulos is snuck a bad spot some of the other guys. they don't have anything to give. >> we don't know that. >> the president and none of the men and women around him -- i don't believe they do because i was on the inside and i heard the communications. >> words matter. and when you don't fuel the misperception of known fact with how you feel about things you're free to have feels. >> but we also know at this point we know of know evidence of collusion between the trump campaign and russia. we know of none. >> because it hasn't. >> it had nothing to do with the elections. >> that's only at least in my case a function of what i have seen difficult through the investigation. but the idea >> right. >> there's been no fruit. what is this the 20th set of indictments we have seen from this person and guilty pleas. >> certainly -- none of them on collusion with russia. we also know if you look at. >> that's not true. but it's no trump staffer who has been caught up in doing that.
>> right. >> but lying. >> they have. >> lying about conversations like this. when you say -- they're not going after manafort simply for a squeeze, right because they have indictments of other crimes unrelated to the collusion. but it does seem they were trying to squeeze him about this. this is my last question on this for you. why would they go to the effort to squoez him telling him about the tampering but not charging, then going for a change in the release order but not charming and then only finally charging. that seems to be a stepped process where they believe there is more to get that's a lot of effort, isn't it. >> it is. it's the same effort that wiseman and his cohorts put into the enron investigation. this is chapter and verse of a federal investigation like this. i believe they're trying to put pressure on paul manafort in the hopes he will give something on donald trump. i don't believe there is anything to give. so paul manafort finds himself in a pressure cooker with really no way out except to face them down in court which is what he plans to do.
>> you spoke to him recently. how did he sound to you? >> you know, paul knew what he was signing up for when he decided to fight this. he knew the lay of the land then. he knew the men and women involved in the special counsel's office -- all you had to do was look at enron and the merrill lynch executives who were eventually found not guilty put them in prison while they waited for that. paul had to believe during this stage of the game that it was getting more difficult, wiseman and the rest of the prosecutors in the mueller investigation were turning up the heat. it's hot. of course it is. but paul is standing up tall. he is going to -- he knew what to expect and is working with his attorneys and they still feel that they'll prevail. >> you start talking to people who are going to be witnesses in the case you are asking for trouble now he has it on top of the original charges. we'll see where it heads up. michael thank you for joining us this first week of the show. appreciate your adding to the mix. >> congratulations on a great week this week, chris.
>> thank you, appreciate. >> up next, we have some great debate as the president's former campaign chair gets into even more legal trouble like we were just talking about, not just with mueller but also a grand jury. the white house has a clear strategy about how to deal with all of this. undermine the special counsel. say he shouldn't even exist. let's hash this issue out once and for all. next . discover card. hey, i'm curious about your social security alerts. oh! just sign up online and we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites. that sounds super helpful. how much is it? well, if you have a discover card, it's free. no way! yes way! we just think it's important for you to be in the know. all right! hey... ewww! everything ok? being in the know is very good. yeah, it is. ooo don't shake! don't shake! ahhh! know if your social security number is found on risky sites. free from discover.
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indictments the mueller indictment hit another milestone. 20 people charged. that's on top of more than 100 counts on the books. but there is this counteroffensive by trump supporters to be sure, that there should be no special counsel, period. you think about it you've been hearing that more and more. so let's get after it right now. we got rich lowry and kathryn rample here for the great debate. good to have you both thank you for joining the show. >> thanks. >> rich we start with you. you heard the numbers. these are crimes if committed they will be tried. how is this not proof positive that the probe was necessary. >> chris the way i think this should have gone down is there is a public interest in learning the truth about russian meddling obviously. and if there was any collusion. the best way to do that is not a prosecutor which is -- he is basically operating in a black box eye except for the indictments it would be a 9/11 style independent commission to
get to the bottom of it and issue a public report. and the obstruction case to the extent there is one against the president of the united states shouldn't be undertaken by a prosecutor who under current justice department guidelines cannot indict him for crimes. but by congress in an impeachment inquire if the democrats take the house they're welcome to do that. that would be the constitutional way to undertake such a. >> did you have the same complain during clinton. >> there was an independent counsel then as a matter of law. >> what's the difference. >> well, one, the independent automatically under law. bad idea we pose the the independent. >> there was the same political process no both cases that's why they went away from the statute after they didn't want to renew. >> there was an agreement, chris. we weren't going to do this again. you get all the process crimes. people shouldn't lie to the fbi that's wrong. but this is not the way to do politics. >> but we don't know -- we don't know the full fruit of this yet.
>> we cone but there is no sign so far any of the indictments of a- underlying. >> understood. >> and if there were a conspiracy you would make people plead to that not just to the process crimes. >> certainly there would be conspiracy. collusion is not a crime on the becomes. books. it would be conspiracy. but here is the thing kathryn. there are two lines one is we haven't gotten any paragraph. we never asked that in any other investigation by the way. when there is a murder trial nobody says i didn't get any proof out of it today they wit for the jury to come back with a verdict. not here. why because we play politics. what do you think of the notion that what russia did and whether or not anyone around trumped helped there is no reason for special counsel rosenstein made a mistake. >> i think that's absolutely incorrect. i guess the real question here is what is the right number of emails that trump campaign officials should have exchanged with russian agents? what is the right number of meetings that they should have held russians agents? what was the right amount of business that the trump organization that the trump organization should have been pursuing through the russian government getting permitting
for a trump tower in moscow during the election? these are all questions i would hope the answer is zero. we know the answer is not zero. i think it's perfectly appropriate that those kinds of questions should be investigated by a seasoned law enforcement officer. we have seen a -- you know, parallel investigations carrying out on the hill. it's not exactly comparable to the 9/11 commission. but you can imagine how politicized those have been. it's hard to imagine that any sort of attempt for a similar commission this time around that was open to the public would not be similarly politicized. so i think it's. >> fair point. >> i think it's appropriate that we have a law enforcement official investigating this, and we are not entitled to know day to day where he stands on things. i think that would potentially hurt the nature of the investigation. it would further politicized >>
you can't say we want to foe and then we're not entitled to know. that's the problem with the criminal prosecution. that's the -- the public has an interest in knowing. this isn't all about, you know, driving george papadopoulos into the ground. and paul manafort, you know could have been indicted probably any time over the last five, seven years. and there is no reason that eastern district of virginia couldn't have handled that case. you don't need a special prosecutor for that. >> i agree with you it would have been preferable if the crimes that paul manafort has been charged with, including money laundering tax evasion, conspiracy against the united states government, it would have been preferable if we had caught that several years ago. but you know what, we didn't catch it several years ago. and the reason why it's in the cross hairs now why it came to the notice of law enforcement is because this is a guy who -- who is 17 million in hawk to pro russian interests. strapped for cash, showed up at the door of a major party candidate and offered to work for free, which you know for a seasoned political hand is a little bit suspicious for the kids watching at home you know
if somebody shows up at your door for frees and offers to run your presidential campaign, probably means you're not the customer you're the product. all of the red flags were raised as a result of election. >> right. >> you're getting no argument from me that paul manafort is dirty. and it's been evident he has been dirty a long time and there is some indications he was on the justice department radar screen for a long time. >> right. >> but there is no reason that that needs to be prosecuted by the special prosecutor. >> here is the reason. well end on this i have another topic i want to get your good minds on. where it your confidence lowry that the politicians can handle this. catherine's point we have the parallel committees going op senate intel i reserve judgment let's see what they come up with ultimately. but the house, what a mess. what an idea that they would be the only sets of eyes on this situation. we would have never figured anything out, rich. it's so toxically partisan you needed something indent.
-- independent. >> i think in the political shock after the firing of comey, you could have stood up a serious independent commission. and that would have been a better way to handle it. we don't know, chris, i'll change my mind about mueller if we see underlying facts but sore the indications are a typical special prosecutor probe that rumbles on and becomes legal om budsman against the administration it's targeting. that's not under the constitution the which things are supposed to be handled. they're supposed to be handled by politically accountable bodies. if he abused powers it's for congress to take it up and start impeachment inquiry. it's not for the inferior ofrsds -- officer. ins executive branch to take it upon himself to investigate the abuse of power. >> when mueller came up and this was happening trump didn't like it but there was no cry of non-constitutional exercise here by anybody within the party. but let's leave that to. >> there were by some of my colleagues. >> they're not quiet people. if they thought they had a trng case we would have heard it at that time. >> there was a case and it was
made by people. it wasn't necessarily made by republican politicians but i'm mot here to carry water for them. >> but i'm forcing it on you. >> don't do it, chris. >> let me ask you something else. preexisting conditions, the president said he would leave them alone they were very important trying to deal with it. now they back door it catherine. they have doj in the form of sessions through a policy move deciding to try to weaken the need of a requirement of preexisting conditions. do we believe this is something that can happen in. >> they've already started doing it actually before the announcement that they were going to no longer defend this particular provision of the obamacare. they've done this through regulatory measures by increasing the availability of short term health insurance plans plans not subject to the consumer protections which are guaranteed issue for people with prekissing conditions. this is not the first time they've done it. and i think this is an occasion where it's both bad policy and bad politics.
those two things do not always coincide as i'm sure rich knows. but in this case they do. look, this particular protection you know making sure that people who have cancer, who have lupus. >> people will die. >> yeah. >> i know people think that's hyperbollic. i'll contend you says rich where if you won't he want cover people bus of the condition you wind up making them susceptible to the same and worse maladies and you wind up have a lethality. >> this is not the only way you can take care of people with preexisting conditions. and the reason why the obamacare exchanges are so unstable and were unstable prior to president trump. >> because they got rid of the mandate. >> no they were already unstable. >> no they had largely stabilized if you look at the prices they had. >> well, they doubled over the course of the life of law. >> that's because things didn't do what they were supposed to do and make the pool bicker but go ahead. >> you provides out the middle class people who are not qualifying for the subsidies and can't afford health insurance.
that's a perverse law. and the regulations are driving it. what you want to do is have one way to handle it at least would be properly constructed, properly funded high risk pools to take care of people that it's very difficult to insure. then have low cost insurance for everyone else. >> the pools haven't worked well and here is the problem process you leave it to the corporations to figure out how to protect the people with preexist ing conditions they won't which is why. >> you can still is the regulation for high high risk pool. >> you could do that. >> but you price the people out final point and well go. >> congress has shone no interest in actedly funding high risk pools. there are dinner ways to skin a cat as the expression goes. you could have the subsidies for people and have guarantees issue. you could have high risk pools. and adequately subds those high risk pools. but congress shows no interest in that. >> right. >> you have to build on the system that you have or have the guts to come up with an alternative system that's adequately funded.
and so so far congress has mot done that. >> rich lowry catherine, thank you very much. >> congratulations on the show chris and one criticism that is the worse drawn peace sign i've seen on it the but i don't like the peace signs but that's okay. >> that's the worst thing you've said today. you don't like peace signs. appreciate both of you. when we return we have a special moment. we have a member of the cnn family, david axelrod. you know the axe. but he is talking about something more personal than politics. and he helps us understand the loss of tony bourdain means. >> is it all worth it? man, look, i'm not going to say it's hard out there on the road. i have a good life. i have the dream job. i have the best job in the world. but there is -- there is a price to be paid when your dreams come true. is it worth it? if it wasn't worth it i wouldn't do it. so i guess the answer is, yes.
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you've lost your father to suicide in the 1970s. you tweeted, please please let us treat mental illness, pressure and suicide as health issues not defect of character. that stigma is what prerchtsz people from getting the help they need. dhou you think we end the stigma surrounding suicide? >> well, by talking about it. for several years i never talked publicly about how my father died. i was 19 years old i was a student in chicago. a police officer came to the apartment knocked on my door, my roommate was reluctant to let him in, it being '70s. i said, no let him in. i knew when he asked that question something terrible had happened, he told me my father committed suicide and i needed to go back to new york. the nypd wanted me to come and identify the body.
it was just a stunning surreal horrific event. i didn't talk about it, i didn't talk about it for years and years and years because i thought it had besmudge my father's memory to talk about how he died. i figured out it was all wrong. it was a mental health professional but he helped other people but he didn't reach out for help, didn't feel like he could reach out for help himself. i wrote a piece in "the chicago tribune" on father's day in 2006 talking about this. i got the greatest outpouring of letters and calls from people all over the country telling me that, you know, they've been
struggling with depression or they lost someone to suicide, they didn't think they could talk about it. we've got to talk about these things. maybe the one thing that will come out of those tragic deaths of tony bourdain and kate spade is that we have an epidemic in this country and maybe we will do something about it. >> it's a by-product of how we treat mental health. what was it that made you decide to come out about this in 2006? >> well, i mean i thought long and hard -- first of all, i missed my father, it was fathers' day, fathers' fell roughly in the same vicinity of time when all of this happened in the spring of 1974. so, i was thinking about it a lot. i started thinking about why is it -- why am i so afraid to talk about this. then i had to confront the question of was i worried about him or did i think somehow it
was shameful for me that my father had committed suicide. and i was profoundly embarrassed when i came to that realization. mental suicide is a consequence of depression, mental illness. when i heard about tony bourd ai n today it immediately took me back. i still don't know how my father got lost in that long dark tunnel where he felt he had no other way out or how tony did. we know that before people enter that tunnel, if they don't feel alone that you can perhaps prevent these things from happening. so, you know, that's why i spoke out then. i think we all need to be more upfront about this now and assure people who are struggling with depression and mental illness that it's not a defect
of character, it is an illness like any other illness and there are treatments for it. you should reach out and get help and it's great that people are showing the suicide hotline that's going to be helpful. we all need to be much more open about these challenges. >> david axelrod, you are saying what people need to hear once again. this time it's personal for you, not political, but you know what any implications will become political in terms of how we deal with this plague of mental health that deals with these types of deaths by suicide. ax, thank you for helping us out. >> thank you chris. great to be with you. >> so, as ax was telling us. anthony bower dane, kate spade, surprising losses. they did not die if a surprising way. suicide is a plague that has taken more lives every year for decades. we don't talk about it because there is a stigma and a shame
attached. even the phone number on this screen, we put it up there. it's good to get the information out there and give people a chance. but there's an assumption, and it's that people in that kind of pain will have the will to ask for help. but too often, they do not. the rest of us feel powerless to do anything, especially when the person in need never says anything. but, maybe that's because we're not asking them the right questions. but you can. and in doing so, you might just help stop a suicide. please do this for me and for yourself. search online for colombia protocol for suicide prevention. colombiapropertyforsuicide prevention. go to my page, chris cuomo and you'll see it.
what are the six thing you can ask people that you're worried about. they wish they could go to sleep and not wake up? have they started collecting pills? gotten a gun? given away valuables. specific way to take on crucial signs. the marine corp rolled out -- suicide among active duty marines went down 22% in 2014. that's a big number. here's the catch, maybe it's not the magic of the questions, the catch is that the protocol works because people care enough to engage. that's another thing that is revealed by suicide, another dirty secret. we need to care, caring counts. it can literally be medicine for someone in mental or emotional suffering. so, reach out. don't wonder what's going on with someone, ask them. we are all in this together and
we need to show it. if you do, it can literally be a life saver. >> i'm chris cuomo. thank you so much for being with me this week. please stay tuned for a special cnn contribute "remembering anthony bourdain." i think everybody who listens to the open of "parts unknown" are elect tied and peers through that music for something on television. ♪ i took a walk >> tony was an original, that's very rare. not only did he have a cool existence but he had his own theme which was a huge thing.