tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN June 13, 2018 11:00pm-11:59pm PDT
now wt would this mean if it was true? it would mean that the president is willing to put his own interests between yours, your families, even americas. that's what it would mean, right? don't ask me. he said it. but, that's what it would suggest, because the only way that the media is more threatening than unthreatening unstable nuclear power is if we represent what president trump fears the most. that is our closing argument, thank you so much for being with us on "cuomo prime time." what do you say, let's get after it again tomorrow night. "cnn tonight" with don lemon, the man starts right now. >> do you think chris, he actually wrote the word "promulgated"? >> listen, don't be like that. it's in the tweet. >> come on. >> the biggest word i use tweet is mayonnaise. >> i doubt herote that tweet, but you're right about the so-called fake news. sitting here watching, this whole thing about jim acosta yelling questions, everyone's upset about it, at least members of his administration.
if you go back and look at it, i thought what he did was completely benign. of course you should ask a murderous dictator. >> that's the job. >> that's the job. >> if you want is a culture of obeisance from the media, you're going to be sour a lot of the time. but look, they're making decisions. look at the guy we had on at the top of the show. that's trump's choice for senator from virginia. >> i'm glad you brought him up. do you think people understand -- do you think they know that they're bigots or do you think they're not? because i don't think that guy knows how big a bigot he is. >> i think they know 100%. ill tell you why, i don't think its natural. you and i grew up in places that were different but had a lot of similar ethic dynamics. and my feeling has always been sometimes hate comes out of ignorance, true. but most of the time people know what they own in their heart. this guy knows what he cottoned to. he knows what he's trying to distance himself from, and 's why wouldn't answer a single damn question about it. and that spoke volumes.
why the president likes him, that i don't get, d. >> you know how i feel about you. when he went after your dad. >> i was not happy about that. >> it's a cheap shot. he is lucky pops is not here. he would hav rearranged his face. >> and if he was in the same room with you, i'm sure. well, both of us. thank you, chris. i'll see you tomorrow. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. we have breaking news for you. it could be a new legal headache for president trump. will his long-time personal attorney michael cohen cooperate with federal investigators? we're going have the latest on all of that for you. but first, fresh off summit with kim jong-un, prtrump is doing his own version of mission accomplished. remember when president bush did that on the aircraft carrier? mission accomplished. >> insisting there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea and saying everyone can feel safer and sleep well. all right, that satisfies it. and he said kind words for that country's murderous dicta and how he runs his autocratic, backward regime.
words you'll have to hear to believe. here they are. >> you know, you call people sometimes killers, he is a killer, he's clearly executing people. >> he's a tough guy. when you take over a country, tough people, tough country, and you take it over from your father, i don't care who you are, what you are, how much of an advantage you have, if you can do that at 27 years old, i mean, that's 1 in 10,000 that can do that. he is a very smart guy. he is a great negotiator, but i think we understand each other. >> they understand each other? we're going to have a lot to say than tonight, so make sure you stay tuned. yet instead of being concerned about placing such blind faith in a murderer or whether he regime reneged i should say on every deal his country has made with the united states, once again, our leader is directing his ire at the news media, of course, tweeting today, as he does, as he returned to washington about the so-called
fake news. the coverage of the summit, calling the media the country's biggest enemy. i don't want to put the tweet up because obviously it's getting old and boring. and he is just going bac tactics tha he has before. it is getting so ridiculously tiring, you know, don't know. if it wasn't this president, would we even cover this? to point out what he's doing here, saying the country's biggest enemy is the news media, why? the other presidents that president trump compares himself to all the time di press much either, but at least they had tough enough skin to take what this president frankly can not, and that is facts, to take fax. the fact is, we are doing our jobs. our job is to report on his job, that's what we do. our jobs are protected by the constitution that he has sworn to protect. apparently he doesn't like reporters asking questions such as, just what deal douake with north korea? is that such a tough question? what deal did you make?
that seems like an easy answer right there. you're ending exercises with south korea, a from north korea, but what did north korea give you in return? that's a legitimate question as well. reporters and the pentagon and u.s. allies and the american public would like some answers, and twitter insults aren't going to make us stop asking all the questions that we need to ask for you, the american people. patiently the president wants, he needs praise in all circumstances, a in absolute terms, just like what happens in the state-run media in the country run by the dictator wit. no one can stop this president from gas lighting the country, calling the press, exercising the first amendment the enemy might distract some people from the fact that he is heaping praise on kim jong-un. might distract some people from the fact that he apparently doesn't consider vladimir putin an enemy either, from the fact that he continues to divide the nation with his actions on race,
on immigration, which we will also talk about tonight on this program. so consider this. perhaps it's not those of news the press that aren't on the side of the president. perhaps it's the facts that aren't on his sides. not perhaps, that's exactly what it is. he doesn'tike the facts. so he calls us fake. well, too bad. we're going to keep doing it. so i want to begin tonight with carl bernstein, analyst april ryan, and cnn political commentator matt lewis. good evening t of you. what did you think? >> well, first of all, i think donald trump came back from singapore expecting a ticker tape parade and wanting a tape parade. and when he didn't get it, and he should not have gotten it, he came not unexpectedly after the press. the conduct of the press resounds with his base. he is the president of his base, not the president of all america, but more important, who he is really angry at if you
talk to people around him are the republicans who we, cnn, msnbc, and fox put on the air after the summit who questioned his conduct at the summit, who wereed these republicans at what he did in canada. >> he can't be that naive that he expected a ticker tape parade. come on, carl. >>actually, i think he does expect -- he projects a kind of infallibility that he expects an awful lot of people to go along with. yes, i think he expected to have great congratulation. look, he ought to be colated for initiating this dialogue with this ruthless ruler. and if anything can come from it, great. but at the same time, his conduct at the -- >> i agree with in the sense of if something comes out of this. but every single president, especially the president before this one who proposed speaking
to kim jong-un was lambasted by republicans and by -- >> the issue here is not the hypocrisy of the republicans. the hypocrisy of the republicans, particularly in regard to iran and north korea, it's on full display. and trump's hypocrisy is on full display. i think we call in the press too, we take the baitetimes too often. >> yeah. >> the real fake news, the real purveyor of fake news is the president of the united states. >> he is the biggest nd meanile product of the press. he loves the new york tabloids, which made his career. what he hates is truthful reporting about him. and at the same time, he knows and we need to pay attention and make our strategy to do more and more reporting. what he hates is what "the washington post," "the new york
times," cnn, the ap, his friend rupert murdoch's "wall street journal" have done in terms of reporting the truth. >> he hates the utan investigation. >> okay. i got to get the other guys in. he hates the truth, matt. it's as simple as that. >> i don't know if he always hates the truth. look, i think a couple of things are at play here. the thing that bothers -- i'll start withhe thing that bothers me the most which is to say what kind of person praises a murderous dictator and this horrible regime and says great things them. >> the president of the united states. that's the kind of person who does it. >> and says well, we kill people too, as he said about putin, as he saidut kim. and then simultaneously says that the media are greatest enemy? that's, you know, it's horrific. and look, someone could say, t'. trying to get under our skin, but words have consequences, especially if you're the president. ideas have consequences. words have consequences.
there are people out there who are not as phisticated, e it or not, as donald trump, who believe him, who believe what he says. i think it's actually very dangerou and what he is doing is weakening the institutions that might hold him accountable. so it's not an accident. >> a lot of what he does is projection. he projects a lot. so is he saying that he is an t enemy of the people? >> i don't know about the -- we all try to put dald trp on the couch and psychoanalyze him. >> he does project a. what he says about other people is usually true about himself. i'm wondering if he is the enemy of the people? and that's pure simple psychology which is projection. >> the fake news thing he did turn around. you're right about that, don. the fake news started out being these macedonian teenagers and bots who were helping donald trump win, and somehow he coopted that term. he has been known to the that. >> so april, president trump said something similar last year
when he sai he respected vladimir putin, and then he said this. watch. >> will i get along with hi hav. he is a, though. n is a killer. a lot of killers. we got a lot of killers. you think our country is so innocent? >> okay. and those comments were unprecedent unprecedented. >> >> w have the remarks about kim jong-un. >> yeah, well, you know, this president, i guess i'm going to take a word from sarah palin is mavericky when he comes to foreign leaders, particularly those like who were once called part of the axis of evil. when it comes to vladimir putin, what this president is doing is very dangerous, particularly as there been reports out of the justice department, out ofc security that has said that the russians under the watch of vladimir putin basically went in to our election system and messed with our democracy.
the pillar of our democracy, ou. so the bottom line is this president wants people to look at him as a maverick, look at him as someone who is going to change the tide, to clean the swamp. but he is dealing with people who are in the swamp. and when it comes to the mia, i'm gng to say thisdon. one way to unify people is to find a common enemy. and he is trying to make the press the enemy. no, he has made the press the enemy. and it's adangerous, dangerous, dangerous game. and there is going to be a loser at some point, particularly at one of these rallies where he gins the crowdand as to do sayet them, and the re that's the problem. >> hold on, matt. matt, i got to get to the break. but let me say this, and i'll get you on the other side. he needs to have an enemy. he needed an enemy with hillary clinton. he needed an enemy with mueller. he has to have a foil. but the other thing, listen, as i was talking to chris, and i've been saying this, i think there is constructive criticism of the media. i have advocated before, we don't have to put every tweet
on, everything that he tweets about. buthings that are complete lies that he says, we do not have to put those things on television because we're feeding the public lies as well that's coming right out of the president's mouth. so, i mean, we could do ousome service by doing some introspective -- by having some introspective thoughts about ourselves as . we'll talk more on the other side. we'll be right back. we're going to talk more. behr presents: 2 can do the job, s.ordiny
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president trump heaping praise on north korea's dictator kim jong-un while bashing the news media as america's biggest enemy. back with carl bernstein, matt ryan and april lewis. matt, i cut you off. >> it's all right. >> do you want to discuss this fake news thing? >> first, what would be saying, what w any center right conservative person be saying if president obama had done this, if he had basically met with the dictator, praised that dictator and attacked the press? it would be impeachment talk, i think. and it is. there should be. the other thing that really bothers me -- >> you think there should be impeachment talk? >> well, there is talk. look, i think that clearly i don't know that democrats want to talk about impeachment to be honest with you for political reasons, but we are where we are. but i also wanted to bring up the unconservative nature of what donald trump is doing. there is this old william f. buckley quote. people who compare the kgb to the cia, it's basically like
saying that the person who pushes an old lady out of the way of a hurtling bus is the same as the guy who pushes an old lady in front of a hurtling bus, because either way, you're pushing old ladies around. that's what donald trump is doing. when he says yeah, putin kilts people, but hey, america kills people too. that is an utter insult for america. we do not do the things that vladimir putin and north korea do. and to suggest that there is a moral equivalence is utterly unpatriotic, and it's an attack on this country. and i think every patriotic american, but especially conservatives should be outraged by that. >> butalso, it's the same thing, though, if you look at what happens when you say fine people on both sides. i know people are -- charlottesville. >> yeah, but think about what you want about antifa. it literally means anti-fascism. when you say people who are fighting anti-fascism are the
same as neo-nazis, it's exactly what you're saying, matt. it's kind of ridiculous. >> you havo look at donald trump's conduct. >> around, though. >> if i can sit we need t look at donald trump's conduct with vladimir putin, with kim, with the press, his authoritarian impulses and pronouncements as a whole rather than pull them all apart. this is his method of governance. this is what he believes in. this is what he, indeed, goes to his base on, and he is very successful at it. >> but carl -- this is the thing. for everyone who is freaked out about this and they're concerned and they're, you know, oh my george bush, howgoing to deal with it, the president has term limits. whether it's two more years or six more years, it's going to be over. and the press will still be here. >> yes. and look, i've been in the press for 57 years. >> the damage is done. >> for 57 years. now but i think there is a big story that we need to look at. yes, the republican party,
particularly on capitol hill, has been craven in not challenging this president, has been cultish. but the real underlying story is that this weekend, if you talk to republicans on the hill, they are horrified at what he did in theegotiation with kim. >> but they won't say it. >> there is a reason. let me finish. there is a reason they won't. they are craven. but at the same time, they are horrified at what he is doing. and this is a new threshold, especially his heaping praise on putin in canada, saying putin ought to be there, bashing our traditional alliances. the republicans who have embraced global trade, who have embraced the alliance that has kept the free world alive, that reagan celebrated, the republicans in waston in the week, i can tell you, there is a change in the way they are talking to each other. >> all right. we'll see. april, i don't know if you feel
that. >> don, don -- >> do you see a change in republicans? >> the damage is done. and carl is right. , where are we with europe? where are we with our friends to the north and friends to the south? we're now dealing with dictators, and people who have been said to have changed our elections process or tried to infiltrate our elections process. and that is just as basic and as simple as you can get. if we have people who are in goment, who have taken civic lesson, who understand civics and government, and understand world history, you would get a knowledge of what has happened in the past. and ifou talk to people who still have their security clearances from other administrations,ho have dealt with north korea, who dealt with russia, who dealt with iran, maybe you would get a better understanding than this knee-jerk i feel thing going on who we have been for these past hundreds of years, and now we're going into a new situation that is uncharted territory, and it's
going to beo reel back. i mean, what's hap this year and a half cannot be undone in a year and a half. it's going to take a while. >> but what they don't understand, matt, and maybe i don't know, some of his supporters and him, what he doesn't understand is what he is basically saying is that he wants to be unburdened by the constitution and the free press. but the free press is part of tly t definitio a hich dictator. >> right. so look, i'll be the first to admit i have a couple problems with the press. k there is a liberal bias in the press and a lot of conservatives have been about that rightly for years? >> what about fox news? a right wing bias. >> i'm a fan of cnn. let me just go on the record here i'm biased towards cnn. i don't even mention their name. >> smart move, my friend, smart move. don't bite the hand that feeds you. >> i also think there is some salacious -- we're talking about the tweets, don. and there is a salacious thing happening in the media.
anit is what it is. but having said all of that, the press has a very important function, and this is to alert the american public and to hold powerful people accountable. and you know the first thing. you all of the sudden talk about they're going to come in and take our guns. well, that's the second thing they're going to do. the first thing you do when you're dictator in an authoritarian regime, the first you do is take over the press. >> you just said what i said. >> yeah. so this is part of the american fabric. >> this is all about the rule of law. this is a president who, has disdain, and the mueller investigation has kept him continually enraged. he conflates the press with the mueller investigation because he knows that both a free press and the mueller investigation threaten his presidency. that's the bottom line. >> soe d want to be burdened with the rule of law. he doesn't want to be burdened with the press.
he doesn't want to be burdened with the constitution, which means dictator. >> that's right. >> i don't think donald trump is going to come in and seize control but i do think he wants to diminish the press and undermine our legitimacy. but what i worry about, what about the next guy or the next guy? he is opening doors and a genie that could some day be problematic. >> i'm very good at it. >> thank you, give me a h fi on that. >> that's what we ought to do is reporting the truth. that's our job. >> give me a high-five. we'll be fine. >> and the press is doing it really well. and that's why we have an enraged president who keeps doing this and expects the ticker tape parade and wants us to endorse it. >> we're going to be fine. and i have a feeling that we're going to be fine. >> don, don -- >> we got to go, april. the president will be fine and eryone be patient.ormal. it may take six years. it may take eight.
>> when we come back, michael cohen looking for a new legal team as federal prosecutors amp up the pressure on him. and the president's allies are telling cnn this could be a problem f president turn on th president? we'll talk about that next. at uber, we're listening to what matters most to you starting with features designedg to make it easy for your driver to find you. taking the stress out of pickups. and we're putting safety at the heart of everything we do. with a single tap, we're giving you new ways to let loved ones know you're on your way. uber has new leadership, a new vision d is moving in a new directn... forward.
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this means h is going to flip. he's not happy. people change lawyers all the time. what do you think it means? >> he is facing an indictment tation with experience ve in the southern distric new york, a new york lawyer that has fought these battles before. i think it's time for him to switch to a different kind of lawyer, and it probably doesn't mean much more than that. >> >> you say tha southern district of new york wants cohen to cooperate, and they're going to bring strong charges to apply maximum pressure. what kind of leverage do you think they have against cohen?wy didn't have something serious. >> they had to have probable cause to dot search warrants in the first place. assuming they did collect some evidence when they went into the home and the phones and the office and all of those places, then they'll have evidence for their indictments. and we don't know exactly what those are. we know they were looking at the stormy daniels payments, the karen mcdougal payment but also business issues related to his taxi license business.
it's still not entirely clear what it will be and what it means in terms of maximums he faces. but we can expect them to bring everything they've got to t inlisten, hotel in new york city rooms. it's not cheap. even the cheapest hotel in new york city is not cheap. we know lawyers are not cheap. he has these big expensive lawyers. sources tell cnn one big reason for the shake up is money. he is running out and doesn't want to spend the entire savings on legal fees. if you're president trump's legal team, whato you think about this move by cohen? >> well, they have to b concerned. look, i totally agree with jennt cohen might be concerned about the suitability of his lawyers at thge of the proceeding. having said that, i do think also that it's more than coincidental that he is coming to this time and this reconsideration of his legal team when they get to the end of the process of reviewing all of these documents that were seized
by the fbi. and so i think that michael cohen may be wondering whether it's time for him to try to play let's make a deal here. a either with president trump or with special counsel mueller. and you know, none of us knows which of those might be in his mind. but he has to be thinking that. i agree again with jennifer. he realizes that he is facing an indictment. he is probably wondering on the one hand whether president trump will in fact grant him a pardon, which i think by the way, bob mueller would view as an act of and he is probably been warn of that. but he may also be trying to see whether the campaign will help relieve him of some of these expenses. >> jennifer, michael cohen has talked about how loyal he is to the president. here is some of it. >> i will use my legal skills to protect mr. trump to the benefit
the best of my ability. >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump. i'm obviously loyal an dedicated to mr. trump. >> tonight coh's allies are telling cnn they are wor the pressure that cohen is facing from the criminal charges could inspire him to turn on trump. this is a quote from a man close to trump. he says cohen is facing the end of a barrel, right? if he isnking about flipping, is this a good time to do it? right about nime to do it >> it d be buts no al rush for him. >> sorry, go on. >> there is no rush for him. he hasn't been charged yet. usually you wouldn't know there is an investigation into you until you're charged, and then you think about whether you want to go in. it's not like he was charged with five others and it's a race to the u.s. attorney office to be the first in the door. so he has time. he can take a look at that what the charges against him are and think whereby he can actually face that and then make a decision. there is no real rush for him now. i don't think he is like looking at it like it's today or tomorrow type of decision.
>> jack, i know you want to we go in on that part. but in order to flip you have to have something to flip on or over. so what would it mean for president trump if this fixer his personal attorney more than a decade did cooperate with prosecutors? >> it's a big problem. it's a huge problem. >> i mean, we know -- >> but aren't you assuming there is somere there if you are saying it's a big problem. >> of course. we know that there was enough there there for this matter to be referred by rod rosenstein to the southern district. bob mueller clearly came across some information that gave -- gave rise to the concern that crimes had been committed. and michael cohen is right in the center of that. that in turn was -- it was then sent to the southern district. so michael cohen probably knows the kind of crimes that he might be looking at. and, you know, it wouldn't
surprise me if the president ha crimes the southern district might be hanging over michael cohen's head right now. >> all right. jack, jennifer, thank you. i appreciate the conversatiwhen is making a lot of people question how could be happening in america. an undocumented mother says federal officials took away her baby while she was breast-feeding at a detention center. we're going to speak with an attorney who has spoken with her, and our reporter will be liveh a first look inside a shelter where children are being held. that's next.
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new details emerging tonight in that heart-breaking separation of a mother and her daughter as she was breast feeding. it happened as the woman, june undocumented immigrant from nduras was awaiting prosecution for entering the country illegally. cnn's ed lavandera is exas tonight. ed? >> hi, don. talking about is one of the dramatic stories we have heard here over the last few days in mcallen, texas, where we have been reporting on this, the policy of the trump administration, the zero tolerance policy. according to an attorney with the civil rights of texas who talked to one of these women several ys, told the attorney at her young child was taken away from her as she was breast-feeding that child inside a detention facility. and then, when she resisted she was then handcuffed and the child was taken away.
this coupled with other stories we've heard from public defenders and immigrant rights activists who says families feel like in many cases that you wer children were going to be taken away so that they can get cleanedp only to find out that they were taken to different facilities. we have heard a number of these stories. officials border protecttells u of these stories are true, that they are unsubsted legations at this point. but nonetheless, we have heard this from a number of attorneys and activists here throughout south texas tonight, don. >> i understand, ed, that you got a tour inside one of the shelters where the children are being held. we're looking at that video. it's up right now. tell about what's happening her? >> that was one of our colleagues, bob ortega who covers iration issues for us quite a bit as well.
and kind of fascinating there this is a rare look. e are one of more than 100 different facilities across the country in 17 states that are being used to house unaccompanied minors and children who in the last month have been remo their fa so imagine this is essentially an old walmart. 250,000 square feet. people, this particular facyed ousingur colleague toured from the age of 10 to 17. they have access to od. the rooms are -- have 12-foot thislity, and there areive boys sleeping in each room. they have access to recreation fields, playingsothere is fuse tables. they're also going to school about six hours a day. there is a surreal aspect to all of this, don, real quick. once you walk in, there are murals on the wall.
the largest mural is of the ceo that runs this facility. there is also murals of various presidents, president obama, kennedy, george washington. but the first one you see is of rump with a quote underneath that says sometimes by losing a battle, you win the war. so just an absolutely surreal scene really inside one of facilities that we w get a look at tonight. >> ed lavandera in mcallen texas, thank you for that. i want to bring in an attorney and director of the texas justice reform at the texas civil rights natalia, ie you joining us. >> sure. >> you say the story of one woman having h baby taken away from her while she is breast-feeding, what can you tell us than? do you know how old the baby is and where she is now? >> so we don't know whether t baby has been reunited with her mother yet, because one of the things that's happening with policy is that is no transparency from the government or procedures, policies for us
to properly track and have information. not just us, but the parents, the courts, other lawyers involved in these people's cases. the woman's story is one of several that we have heard of parley egregious circumstances in which children have been separated from their parents. but int t we've interviewed over 180 people who are parents that have had their childrenrom them in just mcallen, texas alone. >>ou haven't seen any children reunited with their families as of yet, right? i that's correct. we have information that a couple of parents have been reunited with their families. one of the problems that's happening here is at the time of the family separation, the parents and the children don't know if and whe any reunn happen. they don't know if and when. so really, if you think about it, every single minute apart
without that information especially is like torture for those parents. >> are you worried that those familiill not be reunited is that snobl -- possible? >> i am worried tts oing t reunited. we just aren't getting any information. the worst is for the parents who are inhese situations that they don't know if and when they're going to be reunited with the children. we have two people -- this all started -- the texas civil rights projeed petition with the interamerican human rights coalition. and we represent five people that we interviewed. and while they were in criminal court proceedings. and we wanted to let the human rights commission knowhe famieparation that was going on. that happened a few weeks ago, and we have some information that two of the parents may be reunited with their children, though we haven't to confirm that yet. but we also have information, i'm sorry, that two of the parents are in completely different locations while the children remain in texas.
so one parent is in georgia and the other is in washington. >> wow. >> and it's been two week since kids. sorry. >>, no that's okay. obviously you're concerned about the emotional trauma that's going to happen the longer these kids are i thi in your previous answer you said away from their families. but you have been involved inig s is inhumane. it's unsustainable. have you ever experienced anyte thisre? >> i've never see anything like this. and the woman who was separated from her child breast-feeding is one of the more egregious ones. there are unfortunately others. we spoke to a father who his son was separated from him, but his son suffers from brain dam so he doesn't know what type of care his son is receiving, even though his son is suffering from brain damage. and we know of a parent who separated from their child. the child is deaf in one ear, he gets frequent nosebleeds. so the lack of information about what type of treatment the children receiving, the
of informatiennybody is concerning and makes us all wonder what's going on, what the appropriateness of this policy is. >> natalia, thank you. i appreciate your time. >> absolutely. when we come , this is what's happening at the border, like it or t. but the u.s. is a nation of immigrants. so where do those values come in? discover card. hey, i'm curious about your social security alerts. oh! just sign up online
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[ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts -- no, i have to say it -- safe driving! trump administration has been separating parents from their children when they cross the border, including reports of separating a breast-feeding mother and her baby. i want to bring in jan brewer, the former governor of arizona, and leon rodriguez, the former director of u.s. citizenship and
immigration services under president obama. good to have both of you on. this is a very important conversation. so i want it to be constructive here. good evening. governor, do you support the licy of separating children from their parents at the border? >> well, you know, don, it's really a sad thing to hear and read about that going on in the united states of america, but i believe that everyone knows that america is a nation of la, and we believe in the rule of law. and certainly people that are crossing the border, illegal aliens, they know what the consequences are. and for them to think that they should be treated differently because they have children with them, i think, is inherently wrong. the bottom line is this border issue and children and the daca and the dreamers is a very sensitive issue. i , it's --
>> i think you're right. that's why i said it's an important conversation and i wantave a constructive one. >> and we all care about the humanity. but ever since -- even way back -- >> quickly, i'll let you finish. do you support this policy?>> d? i do support the rule of law. >> go on. >> and i think the policyas been set by the president and by attorney general jeff sessions that is zero tolerance. >> so you support -- just to be clear, you support separating children from their parents, right? >>ll, i think if you go to jail, then you don't get to take your children with you. >> ay. all right. what do you think, mr. rodriguez? >> well, i certainly support the of the rule of law, there is a a lot of discretion. and what we have here is a humanitarian crisis in central america. and that's what is driving people to come here. and so i don't support this policy because, one, it's inhumane. two, because it hasn't worked.
it's not going to work. we've had all kinds of really going back to when i was in the obama administration, we've had all kinds of escalations of enforcement, of rhetoric. there are short dip in migration across the southern >> so how did you handle it under the obama administration? because the trump administration says splitting kids from their parents they said hem it's simple terms. >> one thing we did that was fundamentally different is we weren't russia every person we could to criminal prosecution. instead we aed the immigration system to take its course. we didn't separate families. we certainly did dedicate the resources we needed at the end of the day, a million people were deported just under secretary johnson's watch. but these were not the kinds of steps that we took in the obama administration. >> give me some concrete -- again, i want to come to a
consensus here. this is a very important conversation. it's waffle when you hear of kids being separated from their pa i think anybody regardless of your left, right, central, i think your heart would go out to them. so what is the solution here? first mr. rodriguez and then the governor. >> again, i go back to the ideai central america. and until we make a really firm commitment to work with those countries, to support them in combating gang violence, poverty, the kinds of things that are driving this migration, it to keep coming. and we learned this lesson with mexico. lots and lots of folks were coming from mexico back around the late 1990s, early 2000s. a lot more coming now, by the way. many more people were coming. and what changed was the economy
of mexico changed and the economy of the united states changed. there was certainly more enforcement capacity that was put into place. but at the end of the day that really changed migration patterns was really changing the posture of the country from which the people were coming. >> so you're saying that mexico or whatever, honduras or central americaen countries, those places have to be more prosperous so the people don't ave them? >> i think the way we've done law enforcement in those countries, foreign aid, working with those countries to reinforce the rule of law, to really work with them, to be their partner in combating the of problems that are driving people to come to the u.s. >> okay, governor, so you get my point. i think that's a big ask for the united states to prop up economies. listen, we should be trying to do that, but that's a tall order. so what's the solution? what do you think the solution is?
>> we've been facing this problem for probably 30, 40 years, a serious issue and it has not been resolve. and we know under the obama administration that he was very lax in the rule of law. he did nothing. president reagan, you know, we ga amnesty to the people that were coming to our country with the idea our borders would be secured. and from the very beginning of my interest in this subject i kept saying we've got to get the border secured and then we can deal with these other issues. but no one has taken a strong step -- >> let me get this out, governor. i know you're saying the rule of law and i understand that. you keep saying the rule of law. i'm wondering what that means because you said the obama administration was lax. the obama administration also had a program that in practice separated families in some cases men would be sent back while wives and children were put in immigration detention centers. it seems what's happening is an
extension of what was happening under the obama administration. you keep saying rule of law and mr. rodriguez keeps saying we need to get back to humane treatment. >> the bottom line is it seems there are certain people and especialawyer should believe in the rule of law whi he says he does, but then he wants us all to put on our rose-colored glasses and say al really bad. where is the responsibility of the people breaking the law? why are they putting their children in harms way? it's not because we are inhumane. in may we had 50,000 illegal crossings into our state. in april -- not our state, in the country. and 50,000 more illegal immigrants coming in april. we can't continue to absorb the whole world.
if they can find solutions in their countries i'm all for it. but in the meantime if they don't like the laws, they don't like the rules of what's taking them. >> what about people who are coming to escape inhumane circumstances, torture, that sort of thing? >> well, and of course if they come through the port of entry and they request asylum and they have to be able to substantiate why they want the asylum. you just don't come and say you want asylum. and to put your children in thae going to get it or not after days or weeks of a journey is not good protective parents either. >> okay, i wish i had more time. we're going to have to continue is conversation. thank you, governor. thank you leon rodriguez. when we come back michael cohen shopping for a new legal team. and the president allies are worried this means he's going to flip on president trump. michael avenatti weighs in on this next.
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this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. president trump's person attorney michael cohen changing his legal team. sources telling cnn that he has been meeting with lawyers who might potentially represent him and that he wants attorneys with experience in the southern district of new york. what does that all mean? cohen's been the subject of a ee fbi raided his home and office. that was back in april. he has not been charged with a crime, but sources say he will not be shocked if he is indicted. what does this mean for president trump? also tonight a top republican on capitol hill criticizing his gop colleagues for not standing up to president trump accusing republicans of being in a cult-like situation when it comes to the president. we're going to talk about all of that straight ahead.