tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper CNN June 17, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT
pardon me? with paul manafort in lockup and reports that trump's long term fixer michael cohen might flip is the president prepared to pardon their pals? the president's attorney rudy giuliani will be here live next. mmigration outcry. faith leaders speak out as families are split at the border. >> it is unjust. it is unamerican. >> we will go live to the mexico
border with the democrat leading a father's day march. >> he speaks and his people sit up in attention. i want my people to do the same. >> it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation. >> has loyalty to the president trumped principle? hello. i'm jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is learning about another meeting. trump association roger stone tells the washington post that in may 2016 he met with a russian national who he says was offering dirt on hillary clinton in exchange for $2 million. he says he rejected the offer.
he asks stone how crazy is the russians and stone answers wants big money for info and waste of time. the russian way. anything interesting? no. the revelation follows denials by stone that he had ever met with any russians during the campaign. >> i have never been to russia. i didn't talk to anybody who was identifybly russian during the two years up to this campaign. i very definitely can't think of anybody who might have been a russian without my knowledge stone and caputto claim they had forgotten about the meeting but memories were refreshed after being shown the text messages. his lawyer sent a message to congress to update the testimony. they are leveling accusations of their own. they say that the man that stone
met with was an fbi informant. the russian national has also used the name henry and on an immigration filing he claimed to have been an informant though he told the washington he was not acting on behalf of the fbi when he met with stone and that he stopped working with the fbi in 2013. the fbi did not comment to the post. this latest twist as paul manafort is currently behind bars and michael cohen is reportedly telling friends he expects to be arrested soon. the pressure is building on both to cooperate with the special counsel and prosecutors. president trump's lawyer rudy giuliani is raising the specter of quote cleaning up the after math of the mueller probe by using presidential pardons. joining me now is rudy giuliani. mr. mayor, happy father's day. thank you for joining us. let's start with breaking news from the post that roger stone met with the russian national to
try to learn damaging information about the hillary clinton. was president trump aware of this meeting? >> i doubt it. i certainly didn't know about it. it is news to me. i just read it here in the "washington post." it seems whatever the differing recollections it gets resolved with the fact that stone did nothing about it, came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time. he and greenberg came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time. i can't imagine anything got back to the then-presidential candidate that was of any substance. >> i guess the weird thing about all of this is we keep learning about these meetings that members of the trump team had with russian nationals that the trump team had either not disclosed or lied about before whether it is the trump tower meeting with donald trump jr. now we hear about this. it makes people in the public i think wonder why all
the lies about this or the misrepresentations if nothing bad happened. >> the earlier meeting i don't want to go back to because i think that kind o explained and overexplained. however, this one i can see why stone might not have focussed on it because the guy had nothing to offer. the guy was doing everything he could to disguise who he was. most extraordinary thing was on some document he described himself as an informant. every informant i ever had tried to keep t secret. you don't say i'm an informant. sounds like a strange guy. was he an fbi informant or not? we know from the probe by the inspector general that the fbi at the highest levels here were doing very, very unorthodox things if not illegal and unethical. would they be using a guy like
this? i doubt it. you don't just say you are an informant. >> you don't buy the idea that this was necessarily a sting the way that stone and caputto are suggesting? >> i would notscount it. the report gives you all sorts of interesting leads to other possible unorthodox investigations. i think i am being kind by saying unorthodox. i believe that the mueller investigation should be investigated not because necessarily of mueller but because of its genesis in this very, very now completely almost illegal and unethical probe, this russian probe, that began with peter. >> you are calling for a special counsel to investigate the special counsel? >> not so unorthodox.
i'm saying the justice department should do it. i'm not saying the special counsel. i'm saying what led up to the special counsel. i don't think mueller and his people need to be investigated unless something comes of that. you have odd things that led to the appointment of bob. first we have the russian probe that looks like it was rooted in turnin around people investigating trump and hillary who had i think completely screwed it up according to the report. he concludes that almost everything was done wrong. second it turns into the russian probe which makes it a priority. that one they have not made a conclusion about bias yet because they haven't investigated it yet. i think the inspector general is begging to investigate it. he is saying let me investigate it because we can find out the eventual mueller investigation
including its being premised on comey's illegally leaked memo. that usually leads the court to say the thing is tainted. they may come out with a lot of problems if they don't get this resolved. >> inspector general did not conclude that comey had broken the law. i want to move on to president trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort who is now in jail awaiting charges. president trump responded to this on twitter what a tough sentence for paul manafort who represented many top political people and campaigns. didn't know manafort was the head of the mob. obviously he is joking there. very unfair. the president has used similar language, very unfair, tough sentence when talking about pardons such as for alice johnson. you floated the idea of pardons with the new york daily news. if manafort is convicted will president trump pardon him? >> i guess i should clarify this
once and for all. i think i have. the president has issued no pardons in this investigation. the president is not going to issue pardons in this investigation. my advice to him is not to do i cause you just cloud what is becoming a very clear picture of an extremely ir ination with no criminalityinvolved. i want that to come out loud and clear and not get clouded by anybody being fired or pardoned. he retains his pardon power. nobody is taking that away from him. he can pardon in his judgment based on the justice department, council's office, not me. i'm out of it. and i shouldn't be involved in that process because i'm probably too rooted in his defense but i don't want to -- i couldn't and i don't want to take prerogatives away from him. >> obviously he has the power. let me ask you, how do you respond to critics who say you discussing it on tv and with the
new york daily news and president trump tweeting that you are sending a signal to defendants criminal prosecution that a pardon is out there and some people think that this is the president and you suggesting that signaling really don't cooperate with prosecutors because the ps there if you just hold on? >> jake, i don't think that is the interpretation. it is not intended that way. what it should be, what i mean is you will not get a pardon just because you are involved in this investigation. you probably have a higher burden if you are involved in this investigation as compared to the others who get pardoned but you are not excluded from it if in fact the president and his advisers come to the conclusion that you have been treated unfairly. and that would be wrong to do that. really nobody else can exercise the pardon power but the president. some people can recommend has to make the decision and in the scope of pardons it's true these
would not be that unusual. in the political investigations as you know going back to nixon, ford, reagan, carter reagan, even bush and clinton. these pardons happen in these political investigations. that doesn't mean it will happen here. doesn't mean anybody should rely on it. big signal is nobody has been pardoned yet. if you are going to do it probably this is the time to do it to cut it off. there is nothing to cut off. there is a lot of unfairness out there. we don't know the full scope of it. the report has given us a little of it, the guys saying trump should be defeated and we should do everything we can. we should take action to stop them. fbi agents taking bribes in exchange for information. so we have to get to the bottom of it. i'm talking about the part of the report i think the fifth chapter in which they talk about --
>> reporters taking them to baseball games. >> vacations and other things of value in exchange for confidential information about the investigation. >>t says they found out that some reporters have done some things and they will investigate further. it doesn't say bribes or in exchange for information. >> yes it does. it does say anpparent violation of federal statutes and regulations. the federal statute could be gratui gratuity. it would lead to firing of any other fbi age skpnt possibnt an prosecution. >> i want to ask you about the comment that president trump made the other day, the team has already acknowledged that the statement that trump gave about that meeting at trump tower with the russian government official who had promised dirt on hillary
clinton, that original explanation wasalse and misleading. the president was asked about this on friday. take a listen. >> let's not talk aboutit. you know what that is? it is irrelevant. it is a statement to the "new york times," the phony, failing "new york times." that's not a statement to a high tribunal of judges. that is a statement to thehony "new york times." >> obviously, it is not illegal to lie to the american people or lie to the press, but isn't it wrong to lie no matter what? >> of course, it is wrong to lie. it breaks one of the commandments i think. the president's distinction is a correct one. lie is a heck of a conclusion. it is one you worry about with prosecutors. the reality is in a situation like this there will be a lot of differing recollections and a lot of corrections will be necessary. that is why you don't want to go
under oath until everything is settled and you are sure of your recollection. i am confused myself about the meeting. i don't think she was a government official, the woman who profited -- >> when the e-mail was sent to donald trump jr. he was told she was a russian government lawyer. >> a government lawyer. i just thought a lawyer like i'm an american lawyer but not a government lawyer. i don't know if she was described as a russian official or a russian lawyer. it led to nothing. it led to no information just like the thing with stone led to no information. all these things are kind of dry holes. >> i want to ask you one more thing before you go and go celebrate father's day. you said something yesterday about the agents and investigators working on the russia probe that raised a lot of eyebrows. let's play some of that sound. >> instead of investigating president trump they should go to bellevue.
>> talking about prosecutors and fbi agents saying they should go to bellevue. there were a lot of people who were shocked and disappointed to hear you attacking prosecutors and fbi agents. >> i'm sorry but i had to put some in jail when i was a prosecutor. some of them are unfair and unethical. the guys taking vacations and tickets, they should be prosecuted. and the ones i was talking about were instances where people were described as crying when hillary lost. i said if you an fbi agent or prosecutor who is crying when you work for me i would send you for a mental evaluation. you shouldn't be working on a case with such a severe bias. excuse me if i think it doesn't effect your judgment. >> you don't agree with people
who say you have gone beyond zealous advocacy? >> just the opposite. if you fail to recognize the crimes of federal law enforcement officials you are undermining our system of justice. if you called them out and you do something about it which justice department hasn't done yet but has to then you are reaffirming that no one is above the law and that's all we want here. we want the mueller probe to be investigated the way the trump administration has been investigated and we would like to see a report with the conclusions and we will find out is it as bad as what some people think. >> happy father's day. thank you for your time. coming up, 2,000 children taken from their parents at the border. president trump says he hates it but his administration is the one doing it. what is being done to change it if anything? we will go live to the border with the man challenging ted
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border over the last six weeks. although families were sometimes split up over past administration the numbers spiked after a zer tolerance policy. so the parents go to jail and the children go to shelters such as this one where they stay until they are reunited with relatives or deported. joining me to talk about this from el paso, texas is democratic congressman challenging senator ted cruz for the senate seat in november. thanks for joining us. you are leading a march to the nearby town where a new tent structure for these children has opened. officials say 360 children are there. what can you tell us about these kids? have they all been separated from their parents under the new practice or did any come unaccompanied? >> what we are told by health and human services under whose custody they are kept, it is a
mix of kids who made the 2,000 mile journey on their own and kids who made the 2,000 journey with their parents. at the moment that they finally thought they had reached safety, refuge, we will petition for asylum they were taken from parents and have no idea when or if they will see their mothers or fathers on this father's day again. >> president trump has been repeatedly lying blaming the policy on democrats. it is obviously based on this new practice by attorney general jeff sessions. take a listen to sessions defending this zero tolerance practice which results from thousands being separated from parents since april. >> if people don't want to be separated from their children they should not bring them with them. we have to get this message out. we warn people to come to the country unlawfully bringing children with them that they
can't expect that they will always be kept together. >> sessions and the justice department say they are doing this because they need to stop this undocumented immigration crisis at the border. what do you say to that argument that this is all about deterants and stopping people from coming into the country illegally? >> i really feel actually for the border patrol agents who are meeting these refugee and asylum seekers at their most desperate moment. we are asking those men and women to solve international problems, to solve our country's problems at the border with mexico. things have to be bad for you to travel 2,000 miles on top of, not inside of a train, to take your and your child's life in your hands to request asylum to find your child will be taken
from you. this is inhumane. i would like to say it is unamerican. it is on all of us, not just the trump administration. is why we are marching to shed light on this to ensure everyone in america knows this is going on i hope to produce the outrageo force those in power to do the right thing. i am working on legislation to end the practice of family separation. i need republicans and democrats alike to join us to make sure that is america and that we make sure that those who petition for asylum if they can meet the credible fear test that their country can't take care of them there is a legal process for them here to reside. if they cannot we will turn them to their country of origin. there is a way to do this and i want this country to do that at this critical moment. we will be judged for what we do
or fail to do. this is not just on the trump administration. this is on all of us. >> as you know jeff sessions has been raising the bar when it comes to asylum seekers saying that domestic violence and the threat of gang violence should not any longer be enough to allow somebody asylum. would your legislation discuss that at all? >> i want to make surehat every person fleeing terror, fleeing violence, fleeing death -- i met a 27-year-old mom who fled from honduras with her 7-year-old daughter. they had made that 2,000 mile journey. they had just been apprehended by the border patrol agent that they turned themselves into. she through tears in that cell in that border patrol station told me she crossed in between
ports of entry because she didn't know where else to cross. she said she was afraid and didn't know what else to do. i want to make sure that that mother who might be fleeing domestic violence, whose daughter or son might be pressed into service for a ruthless gang or cartel has the ability to petition for asylum lawfully here in the united states. that is this country at our best. that is our law right now as i read it. and certainly the eyes of the world, our kids, our conscience and history will judge us based on how we treat that woman. within hours of meeting her, her 7-year-old daughter was being taken from her. i can't imagine that trauma that mother and daughter felt. we have to be sure we don't continue to inflict that. over 2,000 kids have been taken from their parents. >> here is what the president tweeted, the democrats are forcing to break up families at the border. any immigration bill must have
full funding for the wall and merit based immigration. to go for it, win. i understand this practice didn't come about because of a democratic law. you are in the minority in the house and the senate and you don't control the white house. don't you have to accept compromises here if you want to make changes including funding the president's border wall? >> i think this one will be on the american people. i think when we make the choice clear that we can do the right thing by this country and for those kids and not do it at the price of a 2,000 mile, 30 foot high wall and not doing it at the price of deporting people who are seeking asylum and deporting people in some cases back to certain death, not doing it at the cost of ending family migration which is the story of this country and millions of families who have fled terror or starvation in their countries to
be here. i think the american people will force us to do the right thing. it is frustrating and slow. it doesn't happen right away. ultimately we get it right and i'm confident that the american people this time will get it right. >> congressman, thank y much. appreciate your time. >> happy father's day. >> to you, as well. president trump doubling down on his controversial border policy. is he planning to leverage the outrage to get a deal on the wall? that's next. when i found out i had age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. try areds 2 + multivitamin.
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>> referee: . i thought i would address concerns raised about separation of families. i would say in romans 13 to obey laws of the government because god ordained the government for his purposes. >> attorney general jeff sessions using scripture to justify the new trump administration policy of prosecute eing all who attempt cross the country illegally and separating children from parents. my panel here is with me. senator santorum, i believe you are support was of the
administration's policy on this. do you believe with the scripture to defend it? >> i'm very careful about this. there are many religious leaders who object to this policy. and i certainly understand why. >> leaders of your church tholic church are very upset about it. >> it is gut wrenching to see the images and understand what is going on. at the same time governmental officials have to look back and look at the consequences of what the law is. and the reality is as jeff sessions said repeatedly the law is in place to make sure that we treat people fairly under the law and we have a deterrent effect. the reality is that everybody who will be disagreeing with me on the panel is sounding very compassionate. i just say that there is a consequence to that. if you say we will take these people in, more people will come and more people will come and we will have a bigger and bigger
problem at the border. you will be putting more children at risk. there are real consequences of this. this is what i would say to all of you. you want america to be open, fine. give your addresses out and tell the people who come to this country you can come to my house. >> you can come to my house and you can stay here as long as you want. i will pay for your education. >> you are putting words in people's mouths. nobody is saying we want an open country. what we are saying is we don't want 2 year olds torn from the arms of their mothers. >> what is the consequence of that? will have 2,000 children who will have incredible damage, emotional damage. the consequence of that is human suffering. >> the parents put them in that situation. the parents put them in that situation. the parents put them in that
situation. >> it is utmost cynicism to quote scripture. shame on any christian that is doing that. >> this is supposed to be a country of values. >> and laws. >> the law that is in place now, the same law that was in place with the obama administration, the bush administration and i listened to former attorney general gonzalez who said there is discretion and clearly this president has utilized his discretion to separate families. that's the values that he is putting on the american people. i think the american people and you senator should stand up and say no. when we see something that is so wrong we should make sure that does not occur. >> these parents broke the law. >> they did not break the law if they are seeking asylum. that is not a breaking of the law. >> go to the embassy and seek
asylum. they don't have to go 2,000 miles to cross the border. >> should democrats be willing to give something in order to have this policy? that is what president trump wants. he is using this as a negotiating tactic. >> what they put on the table doesn't address the problem at all. what paul ryan's so-called compromise does not address this issue. democrats are willing to compromise. what we do want is to be a nation who has compassion. you have seven children. if you were living in honduras which is the country with the highest child homicide rate, gangs, you would not leave all seven of your children there. you would want to save them. you could drive nails through my hands and whip me on my back but do not take my children away. that to me is totally not who we are. >> with all due respect the only person talking about a solution
to this is marco rubio. we have not done -- we have kmeetly kmeetly -- completely ignored. >> we came two votes short of a motion to discharge to put a bill on the floor next week that we collectively can do to make a difference and change it. so people are working on it now. >> i'm talking about foreign policy with respect to our involvement in honduras. >> i was born in nicaragua. >> if you want to solve the problem let's solve the problem. >> people are desperate to get out there. that has happened in the last six weeks. there is a foreign policy component and also an immigration policy. it is not either/or. i say to my senator marco rubio you should be on dianne
feinstein's bill where there are 43 democrats. >> that stops the separation policy. >> marco rubio these are kids that look like us, sound like us. their parents are doing what our parents did, flee economic distress to have their children to be able to give them a better life. and it is horrible to me that he is instead tweeting about kanye west's new record and chicken sandwiches and not on that bill. >> i want to play sound from congressman from illinois talking about attorney general jeff sessions. >> sessions, he just loves for black people to be in the back of the bus again. he would love for women to be in the kitchen. he would love for gay people to be in the closet again and for me not to have a microphone to speak to anybody. >> what is your reaction to that? >> my reaction is that you are looking at what jeff sessions'
policies have been. looking at voting rights and reducing civil rights and doing as the attorney general. when you look at those policies, i am concerned about some of the issues that reminds me of what happened post reconstruction when you start rolling back laws. so therefore we as a people have to make sure that we don't follow the past example because we want tobeco become a more pet union. >> what do you think about that statement? >> it's disgusting. look, i understand the discourse in this country. when we see it we see it. but to play these types of divisive, racial bigotry type -- >> i will not allow you to get away with that. the one that had been with divisive issues has been the
president of the united states from the very beginning. he has divided this nation and he continues to divide the nation with his words. >> and if you look -- >> the party has made lock stock barrel. >> there is also no doubt that the doj under jeff sessions has gone antiimmigrant and has done terrible things to take away voting rights. >> we will take a quick break. look into my eyes. what do you see? i'm the cult of personality.
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we are in a strange place. it's almost becoming a cultish thing, isn't it? it's not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a president. bob corker, republican of tennessee, talking about how the republican party on capitol hill is cult-like. is that true? is that accurate? >> i think it is a little more complicated than cult-like. i think he has some very loyal base members. >> the president. >> who see no flaw and see no wrong. somebody who can see a president who is clearly making fun of a disabled reporter and then tell you do not believe your lying eyes, that is cult like. there are also folks who are afraid, cowards, who don't want toc
to confront a president. we see that going on on those who can criticize them in private and are too scared to criticize in public. and there is also folks out there, republican leaders who are pragmatic opportunist who sold out their principles in order to make money and be close to power and get something they want from this president. i think there is loyal base, cult-like opportunists and just a lot of very scared people. >> what is your impression? >> george will said on friday that the republican party has now been a bunch of invertebrates. there is such slavish adoration or following whether because of fear or whether it is because of belief alignment. if there were one place to be able to stand up on your own i would think that it would be the issue we just talked about which is separating families. you cannot be pro life and not
be pro child and pro family. this would be one place for people to step up. i think that donald trump is like a virus that the electorate will develop enough white blood cells to neutralize in 2018 and to eliminate in 2020. >> you have been in support of the president, but you are willing on this show and elsewhere to criticize him when you think he has gone too far or crossed a line. what do you think when you see so many members of your party not willing to call out basic moments of indecency? >> i would say any president has a cult-like following. to say barack obama didn't have a cult-like following. >> he didn't lie. >> and it wasn't transferrable to anybody else. i don't think that is necessarily unusual. the idea of why you don't call out your president is a political calculus. they are not going to call out a president because it under mines
their own ability -- >> number one, it is on video tape now. we will be able to see exactly what history is showing here. barack obama when he was president, there were democrats that did not agree with some of the things he said. for example, tpp, they spoke out about it. they didn't reel it in. there were members of congress, democrats who pushed it on daca. but the republicans here is yielding everything and the republican party no longer exists. it is the trump party. they are losing our values. it wasn't to a president. it was to a country. we are on a dangerous -- >> let me say as a final word, happy father's day. you have seven children. happy father's day. we have one more segment.
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i'm a tin can tied to your bumper, cause.... i don't think enough people heard about your big day. but nothing says "we got married" like a 12 ounce piece of scrap metal. yo! we got married! honk if you like joint assets. now you're so busy soaking up all this attention, you don't see the car in front of you. and if i can crash your "perfect day", imagine what i can do to the rest of 'em.
so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem. like me. in a world where the american president tries to make peace with a ruthless dictator through their affection for corny cartoons. perhaps the oddest moment was the presentation of a fake movie trailer that thehite house created to try to convince kim jong-un to give up his nuclear weapons. done in the style of a big budget summer blockbuster. >> featuring donald trump and kim jong-un, in a meeting to remake history.
>> this is real. we didn't make it up. >> i showed it to him. i think he loved it. >> we did wonder after this week, couldn't kim and trump just as easily pair up for a buddy flick? perhaps the next lethal weapon. >> i'm too old for this. >> in truth, no matter how much the president wants to gloss over it, kim jong-un belongs to a horror film. at times this past year, the cartoony behavior seems to have lent itself better to animation. >> rocket man should have been handled a long time ago. >> you are a sad, strange little man. farewell. >> although, the way trump has talking about kim recently -- >> we have developed a pretty good relationship. we have done something that we're very proud of. >> maybe a rom-com is more appropriate. >> you complete me.
>> happy father's day to my dad, my father-in-law and all the pops out there. stay tuned, president obama's former national security adviser, dr. susan rice, is next. i got it. and sometimes those experts need experts. on it. [ crash ] and sometimes the expert the expert needed needs insurance expertise. it's all good. steve, you're covered for general liability. and, paul, we got your back with workers' comp. wow, it's like a party in here. [ clanking ] tartlets? we cover commercial vehicles, too. i think there's something wrong with your sink. we cover commercial vehicles, too. if you have moderate to thsevere rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 1years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage.
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how can i share new plans virtually? how can i download an e-file? virtual tours? zip-file? really big files? in seconds, not minutes... just like that. like everything... the answer is simple. i'll do what i've always done... dream more, dream faster, and above all... now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria, coming to you today from london. today on the show, the discordant end to the g gui7 su. why do america's historic enemies seem to be getting