tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN June 29, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
>> i believe this is another trap when you did your time, incarcerated, you shouldn't have to wear something like this. >> in a prison system where $265 billion is spent every year to keep millions locked up, some don't expect to see major changes anytime soon. >> business is booming. if there's no crime, they will create crime, create methods to lock you up anyway, because it is business and they're good at it. >> ryan young, cnn, chicago. >> be sure to tune in. american jail premiers sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific, only on cnn. top of the hour, ana cabrera in for brooke baldwin.
prosecutors believe this shooting was a planned, targeted attack. police say the suspect was there to kill as many people as he could. even blocking an exit to prevent victims from escaping. >> we brought to the judge's attention the evidence that suggested a coordinated attack, the barricading of the back door, and use of a tactical approach and hunting down and shooting the innocent victims in this case. >> the suspected gunman making his first appearance. a judge ordered him held without bail, charging him with five counts of murder. investigators say the accused shooter used a shotgun to kill five employees of the capital gazette, and injure two more. hours after the latest mass shooting, the newspaper published today's edition. capital gazette, focusing
governing by remembering the hard working journalists and staffers killed. let's get right to cnn's brian todd, live in annapolis, maryland. what more are you learning? >> we are learning a few moments ago from court papers that the suspect, jarrod ramos was fired from his job at the bureau of labor statistics in 2014 for security related concerns. according to court documents that cnn has reviewed, he worked there as an it help desk specialist, and was terminated in 2014. and again, you put together the mosaic of this man's life, at least the last several years, and it does reveal a pattern of at least resentment toward the capital gazette newspaper, some resentment toward people he felt wronged him, and according to police and prosecutors this kind of culminated in a process of what they believe is a series of really kind of particular planning moments leading up to the attack yesterday.
according to one of the prosecutors, wes adams, who appeared in court at his bond hearing, there are two entrances to capital gazette offices. one in the back of the building, one in the front. the entrance to the back of the building according to the prosecutor was barricaded yesterday. the shooter then shot through the front glass doors, shot his way into the office, was methodical walking around, looking for his victims and killed five people, including one person that was apparently shot according to the prosecutor as they tried to escape out the back door. it was at that time that the police intervened, they got there very quickly, within 60 to 90 seconds of when the shooting began, and according to authorities they found the shooter, jarrod ramos under a table, trying to evade them, and dropped his gun some feet away, in trying to escape. they say he did have an escape plan and that he was again, they believe he was planning this for some time. the police chief did say they searched his apartment and found material suggesting planning and
suggesting according to the police chief that this was a bad guy. ana? >> we know he had some warnings, had been out there on social media, thank you very much for that update, brian todd. president trump today defended journalists in his first comments about the capital gazette shooting. listen. >> this attack shocked the conscience of our nation and filled our hearts with grief. journalists like all americans should be free from the fear of being violently attacked while doing their job. my government will not rest until we have done everything in our power to reduce violent crime and to protect innocent life. >> to discuss, i want to bring in david chalian.
this is from a president that called media the enemy of the american people. what do you make of today's comments? >> i think today's comments were completely appropriate for the president to make. it was his first chance on camera to respond to the events in this way. yes, we normally don't hear him talk about journalists and put them in a category with the broader american people as he did here, but obviously he wanted to pay tribute to the victims who were journalists here and express his sympathy, and pledge as you heard him say that he wants the government to do everything in its power to protect the innocent. i know some people are drawing connections to heated rhetoric. we have no knowledge that there was some direct line here in any way. i don't think it is a good thing for the president to call the free press the enemy of the american people because it is
plainly not true, but it is a political strategy. that's plainly what he is doing. and one he feels is an appeal to his base and that works for him. i won't anticipate that diminishing for the president going forward. >> that's what i was getting at with my question which is there was this stark difference in tone in talking about the media, and i wonder if this was a turning point of some sort. we'll have to wait and see. >> i would be skeptical if it is. >> talk about bigger picture this wild week in washington. the president is moving full steam ahead nominating a new supreme court justice. how consequential is this for trump's legacy? >> hugely consequential. this is one of those things for any president that really does get to put a stamp on something that lives far longer than their presidency. you even heard the president this week say he is looking for somebody that's going to sit on the court for 40 or 45 years. he is really looking long into
the future, long after he's left this earth to have somebody there still sitting on the court. so the other reason this is a huge opportunity, of course, is anthony kennedy at times has been a swing vote on certain cases, some social cases as relates to abortion or same-sex marriage or the death penalty has sided with the more liberal side of the court to replace a swing vote with a solid, reliable, constantly conservative vote makes this much more 5-4 conservative majority court than 5-4 potential swinging court. and that's reshaping the ideological positioning in the court. >> i also think about the shorter term consequences, what it means shorter term. i remember voter enthusiasm in the supreme court went hand in hand in the 2016 election, having talked to voters on the campaign trail that said they were voting for president trump at the time candidate trump simply because of that supreme court issue. do you think democrats have a
galvanizing message or issue at this point going into the upcoming election? >> democrats clearly have a galvanizing issue in president trump and opposition to him. we have seen democratic enthusiasm play itself out in many of these primaries, in special elections in the last year and a half in the trump era, in the polling. so that enthusiasm advantage clearly exists for democrats as it does for the opposition party of the president's party, in opposition to the president's party in the first mid term election season. this will help democrats no doubt energize them and fight over the supreme court. i think you're right to note that 2016, i remember in exit polls it showed that the court was more important to trump voters, you know, if you asked somebody is the court important to you, they were overwhelmingly more likely to be a trump voter than clinton voter in 2016, and this in a year where donald trump is telling republicans
please don't be complacent. i know we have power in the house, senate, white house, but you have to get out and vote, this is a shot in the arm to remind republicans why it is they want to unify and be enthusiastic about continuing republican leadership on the hill. >> david, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you so much. more on breaking news as we learn the gunman in the news room attack barricaded the back door. a woman that worked in the news room joins us to remember her colleagues. an attorney representing a five-year-old in immigration court joins me live to explain what's happening as these children go before a judge. and new reporting, the president wants to quit the world trade organization. part of his new world order. we'll discuss. ♪
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if you're one of these folks watching cable news after cocktail parties with your friends and saying civilization is collapsing and you are nervous and worried, but that's not where you're putting your time, energy and money, then you don't think it is collapsing or you are not pushing yourself hard enough and i would push harder. he went on to say we shouldn't expect politics to be entertaining all the time. sometimes you're just in a church basement, making phone calls and eating cold pizza. let me bring in van jones. >> i love that. >> obama giving tough love to democrats. how do you think it is being received? >> probably well just because we need that. i think, listen, i was much more prepared for trump to win than for kennedy to resign. that's to me a much bigger deal. you win presidential elections, mid terms, but supreme court swing votes come around once in a generation. >> you think it is more
groundbreaking or earth shattering. >> much bigger deal, longer time line, many more rights for women, lbgtq, et cetera, at risk. you need sometimes for people like barack obama, president obama to come forward and remind people, sitting around, fanning ourselves, that's not work. when obama ran and won in 2008, 2012, everybody i knew was working, doing phone banks, going to swing states, raising money. i haven't seen any of that. i didn't see it in 2016 and haven't seen it since. >> even with the marches. >> i love the marches, but marches is not voting. retweeting is smart stuff, it is not registering voters, it is not the hard work. he has the credibility like nobody else to remind people do you know what it means to actually fight for what you believe in? not complain, not be upset, but to put in that hard work.
we said cold pizza, a lot of people's heads nodded. that's what it was when he ran. >> do you think that led to his success. it is not just supreme court news this week but this on-going border situation with families being separated and now not being reunited as quickly as some would like or was expected, and hillary clinton is kme commenting on this situation, saying her worst fears about the trump administration are coming true, telling the guardian this. the question of how we reunite the children taken from the parents is one that's keeping me up at night, is the one that's keeping me up at night. is that the one keeping you up? >> true. and i tell you one thing, if she were president and something like this happened on her watch inadvertently or on purpose and it was time to fix it, she would get it fixed. i don't think anybody thinks she's somebody that wouldn't pull together an interagency process, appoint somebody to be responsible to get this thing done, giving them a deadline,
made the thing happen. democrats and republicans gave her high marks at state department except for benghazi. doe don't forget, they said hillary clinton is great, obama is terrible when she was secretary of state. there's a way to get this done, but right now there's not a single human being in the federal government with the responsibility to get the kids back. so that means it's not going to happen. you have to have somebody with authority and a time line and direct line to the president to get it done. if hillary clinton were president and something like this happened, i guarantee you those basic steps would be in place. they are not in place. she is not the only one staying up late worrying about it. >> dick durbin said when he talked with hhs he asked the question, do you know how many kids and parents have been separated. they couldn't answer the question. the answer is we just don't know. i also want to ask you about the interview you have, we have the van jones show airing this weekend, sunday night at 7:00. you talked with senator tim
scott about how to work with president trump. let's listen to a clip. >> you've had this conversation in some countries like this with president trump. >> yes. >> how do you judge whether you're making progress there, people want you to be the racial trump whisperer in some way. how do those conversations go? i just want to understand, you know, how you see a donald trump. >> they're hard, they're painful, they're uncomfortable, sit in the oval office and have the conversation with the president about things you strongly disagree about. he didn't change his perspective, i certainly can't change my perspective. educated by my experience. so that helps me. the way it closed i thought gave me reasons to be hopeful. it closed with tim, i don't see what you see. what can i do to make things better. that was a shocking response. i was surprised after the
conversation that his response was help me see a better way. my answer is always not for him to speak about issues in a way he doesn't necessarily believe, but for him to actually do something, and opportunity, the outcome of help me help other people, tim. i said support my opportunities and legislation. he said he would, and 24 hours later, he was. that allowed the senate to put it into the tax bill. >> seemed surprised because scott previously said this president was racially insensitive. >> listen, it was a remarkable conversation. you don't have enough people in public life like tim scott who is a problem solver's problem solver. he is not a bomb thrower, not bombastic. even in a situation with the donald trump white house, after charlottesville and the massacre, he was critical. he went and talked to trump. they kocouldn't see eye to eye. somehow he got trump to agree to
help with opportunity zones which will help a lot of poor people. i am trying to get more voices like that heard. i know you are as well. even in the midst of this, there are good people trying to do good things. no better person in washington, d.c. now than tim scott. >> good to have you with us. van jones. see that full interview with senator scott, sunday night, 7 eastern on the van jones show. up next, the russian investigation and supreme court. we get into the potential legal and ethical problems if president trump's pick ends up ruling on something that actually involves the president himself. wemost familiar companies,'s but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company.
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the retirement of supreme court justice anthony kennedy comes at a pivotal point in the russia investigation, because if special counsel robert mueller chooses to subpoena president trump to testify, the president's lawyers said they would challenge a subpoena. listen to rudy guiliani's argument on fox news. >> we're going to see what kind of legal remedies are available to us, including if they subpoena us, challenge the subpoena. the same reason they can't indict him, they can't issue a subpoena. >> mueller could litigate that to the supreme court. could the president be looking for a justice who would rule in his favor? you were the ethics czar under president obama. what are the key questions related to the russia probe you foresee the supreme court could ultimately decide? >> thanks for having me back.
the key questions all swirl around this problem of a conflict of interest in the president appointing a justice who could then resolve crucial issues in the russia investigation. you just heard one from rudy guiliani, it's an issue previously addressed in slightly different form in united states v nixon. can a president assert executive privilege to refuse to provide information to a special counsel. if robert mueller follows through, seeks a subpoena, that could end up in the supreme court. by the way, in the nixon case, president nixon tried not to turn over the famous nixon tapes. he was unanimously overruled. there could be issues whether a president can be indicted. that's an unresolved legal question. there could be issues about the scope of presidential pardons and the double jeopardy, and
ana, it is not just those direct questions but all kinds of other cases the supreme court has. there's a double jeopardy case coming up that's already on the docket that could determine the scope of states' ability to proceed against a president or others who have been pardoned. it's a sticky wicket. >> there are a lot of questions there that you posed that could ultimately reach the supreme court. but how soon? >> well, on the double jeopardy case that's already on the court's docket for the next term and the way that works is right now if the president pardoned himself or others, under the double jeopardy provisions of our constitution, they have been interpreted to say it is not double jeopardy, even if the federal crimes are wiped out by pardons, you can still be prosecuted by the states. but just yesterday the supreme
court took a case, the gamble versus united states case, to determine if the states can actually do that. so if the supreme court holds in that case, trump is not a party in that case, but if they hold, reverse the existing press department, no, a state cannot prosecute once there are federal proceedings, guess what, president trump is embolden to issue pardons, maybe even a self pardon. so whatever is the justice ought to think about saying i'm going to recuse because of this conflict. tell congress i'm not going to sit in judgment on these issues that are very personal to president trump. >> ten seconds. could the president ask for a loyalty pledge from the next nominee? >> if he tries, that's going to be yet another reason that that supreme court nominee should say i'm not going to work on trump related personal issues regarding the mueller
investigation pardons or indicting presidents or executive privilege. >> we appreciate your perspective. thank you. more on breaking news this hour as we learn the gunman in the news room attack barricaded the back door. a woman that worked with some of the victims joins us to share her stories, her memories about them. plus. just in. it could be a dramatic development in the standoff over migrants and immigrants who cross the border illegally. what the justice department is now considering for people seeking asylum. oh, you brought butch.
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stomach. just unfortunate that somebody would come into a place that only reports truthful stories that are fact based and unleash hell on the office. that's never something that crossed my mind when i took the inte internship that i might see people die, people that were nothing but welcoming and comforting to me. it is a big job to take. i never really had a job at an office yet. they were accommodating to me, tried to help me write the best stories i could. it was unfortunate to see such good hearted people ultimately suffer such untimely, senseless deaths. >> joining us now to talk more about these victims is a former reporter at the capital gazette. thank you for being here. thank you for just helping us remember who these people are. you knew several of the victims from this tragedy. how are you holding up? >> i didn't sleep much last
night. i don't think my friends did either and we have been sharing memories of each one of them and sometimes the memories make us laugh, i guess those are the good moments that we have. >> and i want to hear those memories from you. you said working with victim gerald fischman, that you never had so much fun working late nights. why was it so much fun working with him? >> well, no one wants late night. it goes until 10:00. your whole day is off, but gerald is kind of quiet, but he's so smart, he has such a sharp eye and at night his job was to clean up everyone's copy. we were a small paper, a lot of us were young. stories were sometimes convoluted. he would try to make sense of it and crack jokes about how it made no sense. and coming from gerald, this
quiet, sweet dude was hilarious. he would say the sharpest things. and i remember i would see him and the editors rock back and forth in laughter at some of our stories. i'm sure some of them were stories i wrote back in the day. >> oh my goodness. you also worked with rob hiassen. what do you want people to know about rob? >> yeah, oh my god. i loved rob so much. when i moved off the paper, i was so nervous about telling him that i was going to move on because the paper meant a lot to me, gave me a chance, and he was so supportive, and i was so nervous. when i told him, i started to cry a little bit. i felt so bad about leaving. and he looked at me and he said you know what, i don't think i want to see you here in another year or two because he knew that i was ready to leave, and he wanted me to achieve in my career whatever i can, and i was
so moved by that because in journalism a lot of times it is about what you can do for the paper, what you can do for the television station. but that was never him. he really cared about us more than our stories, and he cared about our stories so much. >> that's huge. that's huge. and you shared a story with us as well, another memory about your car and your keys being locked inside your car and rob sort of came to the rescue. tell us about that. >> oh my god. that's one of my favorite memories of rob. it showed you how much of a dad he was. i know he talked about his own kids, too, a lot, but it was the one that i experienced with him. my first day on the education beat, a big deal, big beat for the paper, i lost my car keys. i was running late to my first assignment. i was panicking. and rob just got up, without thinking, was like i'm taking you.
he was driving and i was so nervous, you could sense it. he said if you don't want to go to assignment, i have a full tank of gas, we can go to canada. in that moment i felt so relieved, you know, like i didn't feel as nervous any more. and i went to the assignment and he waited in the car as i did the interview, like he was like my dad and i was like a piano lesson or something, and when it was done, you know, he took me back. and he was my editor. it was such a bizarre experience because editors don't shepherd you to assignments, but he did, you know. >> that really touches me, too, knowing what a crazy world ours is as journalists and how busy it is in the news room, so easy to be laser focused on your story and deadline. to hear just how thoughtful, compassionate he was, how much you describe him caring for his fellow employees and co-workers. i know you didn't know john
mcnamara well, but you remember him as well? >> yeah. i remember john. and you know, the thing most reporters will tell you this, the sports desk is always somewhat removed from everybody else and sometimes you can go months without knowing the name of any of the sports reporters. but i knew john because he always made a point to say hi and, you know, just the fact that i knew his name says a lot about how he reached out to everybody in the news room. my one memory of him, i remember reading in a story about him what his wife said. he was dedicated to journalism and dedicated to me. he had a picture of his wife, facing the rest of the news room so we could all see. i think about how much she must have meant to him, you know. >> yep. thank you so much for sharing your memories with us and helping us to lift up these
individuals. really great to have you with us. sending you my best. >> thank you for having me. up next, an immigration attorney is going to explain how her five-year-old client is facing deportation proceedings alone. and this child doesn't even know what country she's from. can only draw pictures of the gang members her family is fleeing. that attorney is going to join us live in moments.
you're about to hear a phone conversation obtained by vice news between a weeping seven-year-old boy and his mother who is trying to console him from her home in guatemala. the child traveled to the u.s. border with his father where they were both detained and separated. [ speaking foreign language ]
[ speaking foreign language ] >> that boy who you mostly heard through his sobs is in a u.s. immigration shelter, crossed the border a month ago, still hasn't spoken to his father. it took a month or more, but another child was reunited with his mom today at washington's dulles international airport. the mother was apparently seeking asylum from he will vel. she was detained in colorado. there are more than 2,000 children in custody of the u.s. government separated from their
parents. illinois senator dick durbin chided the trump administration for not having what they call a clear reunification plan. >> when it comes to reunification, there wasn't a word about it in the president's executive order. as we listen to them today, doesn't sound like they have any plan whatsoever. >> many of these children, some toddlers, are starting to appear at deportation hearings by themselves. with me now, laura berera who represents some of the minors. thank you. i understand you represent a five-year-old having to go through the immigration courts without a parent or guardian. how do you begin to approach this? well, it's definitely different handling children's cases like this. we have to use different techniques to get their stories. so with that child, we will draw pictures. but again because they're children, we'll go from drawing a picture of gang members that
wait outside her school to suddenly her drawing a picture of ice cream, telling me about the man who was down the street and sold ice cream. you know, because they're kids. it can be really difficult in that way. then they're expected to represent themselves in court if they can't pay for an attorney, which many of them can't because they're children and there aren't enough free legal services like me to represent all of the kids that need attorneys. >> so are some of these children having to go through the process? because as you point out, there is no guarantee of any kind of legal representation for immigrants. are these children at times having to do without somebody like you at their side? >> yes. absolutely. that's the policy. it has been affirmed by courts that although they have the right to get an attorney, even children will not have an attorney appointed to them. if they can't afford one, they will not have one. the immigration system is
incredibly complex. it is difficult for even adults to understand. it is just absurd to think that kids are going to understand that. they're not. they often don't know what country they're from. one of my clients, i asked her about the gang that's persecuting her. one of the things she said is that they're magic. these are children. i'm glad some light is shed on this issue because people i think are starting to understand how ridiculous the system is. it's not due process to put a child in immigration court and expect them to be able to represent themselves. >> what is it like in that court proceeding then with a judge trying to interact with a child as young as five or potentially even younger who may not be able to verbalize what has been going on in their lives and why they ended up in the united states. >> well, i mean, it is really difficult. it depends on the judge. i know they'll try to explain to the child what their rights are and how to seek asylum, but you
know, with kids being five or younger, some kids taken even if they say in court, yes, i understand. they don't understand. we can't expect them to understand. and this is the only kind of procedure in the united states where we don't think about what is in the best interest of the child. we just put them in court and expect them to deal with the same processes that we expect adults to deal with. and that is not okay. >> we're just learning new information that the trump sfra administration is working on a new regulation that could restrict immigrants from asking or seeking asylum if an immigrant has been convicted of illegally entering the u.s. sources tell cnn, they would be banned from seeking asylum. what is your reaction to that? >> well i mean -- it is unreasonable for a couple of reasons. first, at ports of entry, people are being denied the ability to
ask for asylum. they are showing up day after day and asking for asylum and refused entry at the border. and so there are people who are trying to do it that way and the border patrol is making that impossible. and then second, a lot of people don't -- when they are in their home country and fleeing persecution, they are fleeing death threats, they don't know the correct process to do it. sometimes people cross the border illegally and then present themselves to a border guard and ask for asylum and they don't know that is not the way jeff sessions wants them to do it. but it doesn't make their fear any less valid and we have obligations under international treaties to protect people who are fleeing persecution. so i think -- that would be devastating. >> laura herrera, thank you for being here and shedding some light. we appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, one of president trump's political appointees working behind the scenes to soften language about
fighting racism and hate speech. we'll have that exclusive cnn reporting for you. but first, we want to take to introduce you to this week's cnn hero. when luke nicholson learned that kids in his community were sleeping on the floor, he went from businessman to bed maker. and what started as a single good deed helping one family, spread to helping 3000 children. >> i'm just a farm kid from idaho. i grew up here. whey didn't know is there was kids next door who are struggling. i have kids sleeping on the floor. i was making a six-figure salary by you fell into this me i was discovered thaent bei discovered -- that wasn't being fulfilled by anybody. i quit my job because i wanted to do this full time. the need i have isn't financial. the need i have is seeing the joy on kids' facing know i could make a difference. >> to watch luke's team deliver beds to a family, go to cnn
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orlando in search of answers. >> when you look back at something, you have a better perspective and looking back ten years, i realize that what i was most appalled with the case was -- >> you can't trust this evidence. >> this lack of the truth. >> you are the ultimate deciders of what the facts are. >> in a way, jose baez before trump came along was trumpy an. >> this is not a murder case. >> if you say it loud enough and often enough. >> there is no evidence of any murder in this case. >> people start believing you. >> this is not a murder case. >> this was an accident that snowballed out of control. >> i personally think there was an accident. >> i didn't buy it for a second. but there was room for that argument because with her remains and the condition they were you couldn't exactly tell how she died. >> randi kaye joining us now to discuss her new special report.
i can't believe it has been ten years since her death and then seven years since her acquittal. >> i can't believe it either because i covered the case ten years ago. so i interviewed the parents and mom when they were still looking for little caylee. so it is remarkable. but casey, these days, her mom and she's trying to live as normal of a life, living in west palm beach florida, south of orlando where this occurred. she lives with an investigator who worked for the case -- who worked on her defense team and was pretty important to the case. she does some filing and clerical work. we're told that she goes out for a run in the morning, her neighbors don't see her much. she doesn't say much. but she did give one interview in all of the years to the associated press where she talked about this case. and that was an interesting interview because she said she doesn't care what anybody thinks of her. she didn't put it that delicately and she sleeps well at night. which as you could imagine, on a probably -- surprising a lot of people that she sleeps well.
>> as a mother, myself. >> if i lost my child, my child was killed, i don't know how i could ever sleep well. >> and her life -- it is obviously anything but normal. she barely speaks to her mom and doesn't suprepeak to her father people think she skmited murder. see the report tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. here on cnn. "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. we're sending out our thoughts to the families and colleagues of the fallen journalists in annapolis today. the leed starts right now. horrifying details that left five dead and how the suspect barricaded staffers into the newsroom and why a man who had raised so many red flags for years wasn't a cnn exclusive, a trump administration official taking his red pen to a