tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN July 22, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT
perhaps the president got some inspiration on the tarmac in helsin helsinki. >> i think i could have a very good relationship with russia and president putin. >> and for one more exclusive, i want to offer a special welcome to team tapper, charles davis austin jr., as is he family. thank you so much for joining us, fareed zack kkaria starts r now. this is gps the global public square, welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live today. on the show today, trump, putin, the helsinki summit and the after math. the meeting raised many more questions than it answered. >> i think that the united states has been foolish, i think we have all been foolish.
>> just what is the state of u.s.-russian relations and what should it be? i have a great panel to discuss it all. also the 2018 election is just over 100 days away. what could russia do this time to try to meddle? and how about china? or north korea? the cyber war expert david sanger tells us what we should really be worried about. and france's extraordinary world cup win. and the innovative program that brought the nation to victory. what the mosaic of different colors, different national origins and different cultures can teach us all. but first, here's my take. donald trump's press conference in helsinki was the most embarrassing performance by an
american president i can think of. his preposterous efforts to talk his way out of his troubles made him seem even more absurd. but what's secured by this disaster and humiliating performance is the other strain in trump's russia narrative. as he tweeted, our relationship with russia has never been worse thanks to many years of u.s. foolishness and stupidity. this is a serious issue worth taking seriously. the idea that washington lost russia has been around since the mid 1990s. i know because i was one of the people who made that case. i argued in 1998 that washington was not ambitious enough in the aid it offered russia nor was it understanding enough of that country's security concerns. i continue to believe that george h.w. bush and bill clinton might have missed an opportunity to fundamentally transform russia. but it has also become clear to me that there were many powerful
reasons why u.s.-russian relations might have been destined to deteriorate. russia in the early 1990s was in a period of unusual weakness. it had lost not just it's soviet era influence, but it's 300-year zionist empire. it's society was collapsing. in this context, it watched as the united states expanded nato, and criticized its efforts to 12 stop chechnya from succeeding. it worried that the war in yugoslavia was destabilizing europe. and the u.s. could not condone russia's brutal wars in chechnya and much of the reason destroyed. in addition by the late 1990s, russia was moving away from a
democratic path. a scholar has shown that by the mid 1990s the liberal tally for all reformers in russia's elections never went above 20%. the extreme opposition forces, communist, hyper nationalist, received about 35% on average and once putin came to power, the move toward ill liberal democracy and out right authoritarianism became unstoppable. an authoritarian russia had even more areas of contention with the united states. moscow panicked over the color revolutions where countries like georgia and ukraine became more democratic. it looked with consternation on democracy in iraq. and perhaps most crucially, by the mid 2000s, deadly rising oil prices had resulted in a
doubling of gdp. and cash was flowing into the president's coffers. and putin sitting atop the vertical of power he had created began a serious effort to restore russian influence and under mine the west and it's democratic values. what has followed ever since, the interventions in georgia and ukraine, the alliance with assad in syria, thecyber attacks on western countries--the u.s. might have missed an opportunity to transform russia in the 1990s. which don't know if it would have worked but we do know that there was darker forces taking over in russia almost two decades ago, and since then, it is russia that has chosen to become the principal foe of america and the american created
world order. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. let's keep going, we have a terrific panel today, david remnik is the editor of the new yorker and the pulitzer prize winning author of "the last days of the soviet empire." and the foreign minister under boris yeltsin, and katrina reina was the editor and publisher of the left wing magazine and she was ambassador at large for the former soviet union. you they we're all overreacting to the helsinki summit.
explain. >> i think we need more reason and less talk of treason, i think the memo released on the eve of the helsinki summit is that the -- we must do everything we can to secure and protect our election infrastructure, and that means also protection against dark money, voter suppression, partisan gerrymandering and most important we must engage with russia to reduce conflict, the takes are high, these are the two countries which control 90% of the world's nuclear superweapons. and so i think it's vital. and our letter was signed by ambassador matlock, reagan ambassador to the soviet union, by gloria steinham, by noam chomsky. people who understand that cold
war is lousy, for citizens, for women, for children, for progressives, deplete resources and fatten defense budgets. i thank you for inviting me on, but there's a lockdown on much of the media establishment. it's one hand clapping when it comes to arguing about the u.s. national interest to have a relationship with russia. understanding putin is abauthoritarian figure, understanding that some of us don't necessarily give legisl e legitimacy to leaders and also understanding that the -- gorbachev is a part owner, it's where the journalists so many have been killed. russians also seek some relationship with the united states and many journalists i know, david, will speak to this too, because we both worked in moscow off and on for many years, russian journalists are looking at america and wondering
if we're losing our head and doing more to contribute to putin to the view of infallible, who is a strong man and should not be poked at and not treated in this hyper way. but i think it's a very dangerous perilous moment, fareed. >> let me bring in david remnick. >> the problem is this, the problem is not the idea of having good relations with russia. who would not want that? you have the two big nuclear -- the two greatest nuclear powers in history on the face of the earth. of course you want at least a modicum of decent relations between these two countries. the problem is, and this request not be overlooked, even when my skeptical russian friends think we're losing our heads, the president of the united states seems absolutely oblivious to the demands of rigorous
diplomacy, he goes on television and in front of the russian leader and says what he says in helsinki. he clearly doesn't think or doesn't want to think that russia interfered in the 2016 elections. that is he clearly wants to deny what his own director of intelligence is telling him, that russia continues, i think he used red alert, continues to interfere in the upcoming elections, it's the combination of naive today, strangeness and also an ideological affinity to with the worst tendencies in the globe today, which is to say an authoritarian movement, an ill liberal democracy, which you once dubbed it, fareed, it's getting worse and worse whether it's in poland or hungary or in france in the right wing party there.
these are the tendencies that donald trump is aligning himself with and telling all kinds of untruths so the idea that there would be a suspicion about his motives when in fact his campaign manager is about to go into court, when in fact his national security advisor is in trouble with the law and so much else, i can't agree that we should have a completely calm head when it comes to donald trump, the president of the united states. this is a very dangerous situation. i want good relations with russia or china, not just our friends but adversaries too, i'm not out of my mind, i want that, we all do. but the problem is we're living in an emergency when the president of the united states behaves as he does. >> andrea, you understand the insight of russian foreign policy. though it did strike me that donald trump was saying some things that seemed very much like putin's talking points. for example the monte negro
example, why is putin expanding to monte negro, why is that purpose? and couldn't that drag us into world war iii and you have donald trump saying that? do you think putin succeeded in this summit in getting his point of view across to donald trump? >> fareed, tell me that this summit never happened in helsinki and there is no bromance between trump and putin, and i will tell you that there is a lot of hope to have -- to get america, to make america great again. but only if those things are just kind of unimaginable. what is really dangerous to my mind fundamentally, is that it's first time ever, american
president offered to russian counterpart in his tweet in trump's tweet, the new basis for a relationship and the new basis for discussions. and the basis is that america is to be blamed for it's stupidity. and i'm sorry, i have a little flu, for its stupidity. and foolishness. i think is the quotation, that america is to be blamed for the troubles in relationships. of course putin cannot but rejoice on that. that's why my former deputy sergey lavrov said it's more better than super.
and that's wrong foundation, and i don't -- i can't believe it happens that it's american blame, and proceeding from this basis, overt to russia, of course putin is saying this for the kids, that it's america that has to change it's behavior all over the agenda. and here he is, and he'll be very, very helpful to cooperate on this basis. so the problem is not having a normal or benign relations. but the relations based on the idea that it was all american fault, stupidity or whatever. and america has to correct it's behavior that really makes this
emergency situation to my mind, an intense emergency situation. >> the polish foreign minister had an article where he said, look, as america's allies, we are all now very nervous. we wonder whether the united states will actually back up its -- i should say the former polish prime minister, we wonder whether or not he will back up his promises, we wonder whether the alliance is strong, i'm hearing this from european ally, after european ally, in light of they wonder how he trashed america's allies in europe and then praised putin. what is america trying to achieve? is it trying to destroy nato or erode the european alliance? >> fareed, the allies after the nato summit in brussels have had inevitably a kind of freak out.
but, you know, most american allies want good relations between the united states and russia. it katrina is right that most americans want good relations between the united states and russia. the issue is, does the president have any idea about how to achieve that goal? what are the requirements of it? one requirement as katrina suggests is actually a debate, although he makes it a lot harder to have a debate because everybody just has to gang up against him and has to because he requires it. the requirements are better russian-american relations are to start with a certain kind of unity in the united states and in the u.s. government. we're in the unique situation of having a president who has his entire administration and the congress against him on a major foreign policy issue. he can't do this by himself.
second requirement is unity within the alliance. he's threatened that. a third requirement is some kind of leverage, the president seems to be interested in reducing our leverage. the incentives that we give russia to act responsibly. he wants to have a big deal in syria, for example, and yet he wants to -- his clear goal is to get out of syria. that isn't going to give putin much reason to think that he has to take our views into account. on the basis of certain kind of unity, leverage, you can move russian american relations forward, i think we often exaggerate how bad they are. in the past four years, after a major challenge from russia in the ukraine crisis, we have had a coming together of the alliance, we have had more resources devoted to deterring russia.
we have had greater caution in some ways by the russians in europe. and the president would be in a position to harvest the benefits of that if he only understood what he was doing. and didn't try to make this entirely his action. >> i got to take a break, when we come back, i will ask the question simply, does donald trump seem beholden to putin, or is that too outlandish an idea? when we come back. age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. also, in a great-tasting chewable. with tripadvisor, finding your perfect hotel
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argued there's sort of three possibilities, the one in three i remember which was number one is that this is all happening because of trump's narcissism, that he can't allow anything that delegitimizes his election to stand, so he's bending over backwards to claim that the russians didn't interfere. and three is putin really does have something on him. i think two is sort of in between. what do you think is the reasonable conclusion to draw from trump's performance. >> my role is a journalist and i do -- doubting the fact that russia interfered in the election. now people have come around to that. i do know that donald trump's business interests have been cast into severe doubt in terms of their legality, he does business with money launderers
from baku to georgia to new york. his staff went in search of all kinds of compromise on clinton. do i know there's collusion? i absolutely do not. i think the mueller investigation is crucial to that. he will find out. the great tragedy here is that we are so caught up in this and legitimately so, i don't think it is just something we are spinning our wheels about, but legislate massly -- legitimately so, our foreign affairs are thrown in complete disarray when we're seeing donald trump make a hash to such a degree, whether it's in north korea, or europe, or with the russians, just on the sheer level of competency,
on a modicum of truth, that we are watching a tragedy unfold every day and it's driving a large part of the country crazy, it has really been an ongoing tragedy to watch. so i can't tell you the end result of the mueller investigation, no one can. >> katrina, let me ask you, we don't have a lot of time, this is a short block. why do you think it is that donald trump is so nice about putin, he says the most vicious things about angela merkel, the chancellor of germany, he says nasty things about justin trudeau, he undercuts teresa may, our closest ally. but about vladimir putin, if you were to do a word block chart, strong, decisive, i trust him, i have confidence in him. it does lead him to wonder what donald trump sees in putin, it could be an ideological affinity, it could be more. is this a reasonable conclusion people come to?
>> well, i think the attack on the two women angela merkel and teresa may show his misogynist side, i wish they had done a little crook in his nose, but i will say, fareed, step back, there's no question trump has an affinity for strong men. he doesn't say anything bad about netanyahu, the murderous dictator of the philippines der ter today, erdogan, so there are a whole set of strong men that donald trump doesn't say a bad word about. i know that's a meme, but there's no question trump has an affinity for these strong men. but i will say stepping back, opposition to trump and the nation is at the forefront and a fierce opposition to trump, what he's doing to roll back the civilizing reforms of this country, of the last two centuries cannot be opposition
to common sense, and steve gets it right, i think, that we need to keep an eye on the importance of a working partnership, not a friendship with russia to resolve syria, to resolve the nuclear proliferation that imperils us, to set rules of the road for cyber attacks. let's do a geneva convention for cyber attacks. i don't think the bromance is real. >> when we come back, we'll talk about just that, which is what is the likelihood of america being able to achieve some of its foreign policy goals in light of this summit, when we come back.
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. and we are back with my panel. steve, i want to ask you again, we have got to be brief. where do we go from here? you seem to think the allies freak out as you put it is something that can be smoothed over. a lot of allies i have spoken to seem to think this is more of a water shed moment where they ask to ask themselves do we have to imagine a world without a rock hard alliance with the united states? >> look, the helsinki summit sent a lot of disturbing messages to people all around the world. here's the message i think it sent, a double message to putin. two things, contradictory, one you may be able to get something for something, and second, you've got to help this guy, he doesn't know what he's doing. they message about getting something for nothing is, you
know, that the american positions may crumble across the board. it's not clear whether the president believes any of the traditional principles of american policy. but this you've got to help this guy message is also very strong, but putin sees that he's unable to defend his own policy. if he wants to do something about foreign relations, he's got to do something for trump. if he comes to washington in the fall, nothing will so vindicate the hapless, crazy donald trump policy like actually delivering something. putin has to show that trump is not just as you said in the previous segment beholden to him, but that he can actually get something out of him. that's what we don't see any sign of yet. >> i'm sorry to do this to you, but this is television.
do you think that putin wants a genuinely cooperative relationship with the united states? or does he want to be the spoiler, the principal opponent of an american legal world order? i'm sorry to tell you, but we got to do this in 45 seconds. >> yes. in my youth, moscow was propagating that all countries unite. today what i hear from moscow is authoritarians of all countries unite. and that's where there is room for vast cooperation. just look at syria, the dictator there, russia fights for him. but otherwise, the authoritarians are to unite against american values or
democratic values for that matter. and that creates a considerable constraint to any kind of koerpg. -- cooperation. they want to keep the dictator in syria and in many other spots so that's important. >> i got to stop you now. we will have you back, we will have you all back, thank you so much. up next, election hacking by others, when we come back. jean woke up with knee pain.
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now that the entire u.s. government including the president, i think, has acknowledged that russia did try to meddle in the 2016 elections, and given that the 2018 elections are just over 100 days away, i wanted to understand how russia could meddle in that vote. just what is that nation's cyber capacity and just how does it carry out it's aggressive acts. i called in the expert to help with all of this. david sanger is national security correspondent for the "new york times" and the author of "the perfect weapon, war, sabotage and fear" in the cyber age. david, good to have you.
>> great to be here. >> you have talked to so many experts, you have seen the war on intelligence, what do you have confidence that the russians did? >> you have seen the facebook ads, we know that they went through the internet research agency and now thanks to an indictment that just came out a little over a week ago, we know that gru, the russian military intelligence, worked hard to influence individual americans by pretending to be their neighbors instead of being a group of russians. we also know they went into the voter registration systems of a number of different states, arizona, illinois, but many others. in an effort to see whether or not they could actually fiddle with the registrations. remember, voting machines are offline by and large and pretty hard to mess around with. but the voting registration systems are a different thing. and they are online. and so of course if you can go
in and say that fareed moved from new york to chicago when you show up at the poll booth they might say, gee, you're not registered here anymore. that didn't happen, but it turned out the system was so vulnerable, it easily could, something to worry about for future elections. >> and then there was the hacking of the dnc servers, how confident are we that that was russian intelligence officers? >> we now have traffic that we have seen in the indictment, emails, text messages in which the russian officers talk about pretending to be this group called goose fcall ed guccifer, guccifer 2.0. but there's more. the british intelligence services, gchq, they're the
equivalent of the national security agency for us. we saw documents running through the lines they were tapped into for russian military intelligence. >> so british intelligence is looking at russian digital activity and they see the democratic national committee's documents going through that? >> they see the metadata, the headings of an email. so immediately, the head of gchk and i quote them by name in the book and it tells me in interviews, they immediately sent a note to the national security agencies saying hey, you've got a problem here. you've got dnc documents that we're seeing in the russian network. so when the president comes outs and says i think it was the russians, but it could have been somebody else, it wasn't someone else. they saw this inside the russian military intelligence network. and they weren't the only ones, the dutch had gotten inside the headquarters of the gru, the
russian military intel jents hajents -- intelligence hackers and they had video of them. and on top of that, the cia had some unique human intelligence, that was very closely kept, john brennan could give it directly to president obama that was attributed to president putin. >> so what do you think the russians could do in the 2018 elections? what are their capacities? >> they could do a lot of things, but my biggest fear is not just the russians, but the people who learned from the russians. the main thing you learn from cyber attacks, is that other countries are watching what every other country is doing. you and i are caught in this collateral damage of this war going on 30,000 feet above us. and it's easy for other actors to mimic somebody else.
so in the 2018 elections, it might be the russians who come back, but the heat's on them. the chinese have an lot of heat on them because of the tariffs and other concerns, and other actors do as well. they're all studying what the russians did in 2016 and saying how can we improve upon that? >> would it be fair to say that because the president has been defense and in denial, probably the u.s. government is not ramped up at full speed to deter something like this? >> that's a great understatement, we lost a huge opportunity, several of them. first, after the presidential election was over, the president having received his briefings about the russians could have said, i was legitimately elected. but we have a big problem here, we can't have foreign countries interfering with our elections, so i'm setting up a 9/11 style
commission and we're going to point out lessons learned and we're going to get started, he didn't do that. second, the white house did have under president obama and did have under president bush as well, a white house cyber coordinator who would try to pull together the various parts of the u.s. government that have interests in this. the cyber coordinator's job was eliminated by john bolton in the first week or two that he was in office. they have never really given a reason why. that office is goon. -- gone. at the very moment that the intelligence agencies are telling congress and i've been telling them for four years that cyber is our number one vulnerability, ahead of nuclear proliferation, ahead of everything else. >> thank you, great to be with you.
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star, won over the hearts of his fellow frenchmen and women. in this year's world cup. his parents were born abroad in africa. his foreign heritage just makes him part of the club. according to my next guest, two thirds of the 23-member team are from families that recently immigrated to france. france has a right wing that denigrates immigrants. the question that tony blinken raises in a terrific "new york times" piece is whether france can do with their recent immigrants, their neighbors and neighborhoods, what this melting pot team has done for france. he's a former deputy secretary of state, he is now a cnn global affairs analyst. tony, let's begin by explaining to everybody why you know this much about soccer and france and why you don't really have your
national security hat on here, but your documentary film maker hat in a sense. >> you know, fareed, i got to spend a lot of time in france, i lived there from age 9 to 18. i went to high school there. so i in effect grew up in a country where soccer players were idolized and i watched the evolution of french soccer over four, almost five decades now. and i've seen the extraordinary emergence of france becoming a world power house in soccer again. it had been, it lost it, and now it's back. >> describe the extent of france's current domination of soccer. >> it's pretty remarkable, the last five world cups, they take place every four years, france won two of them, finished second and third. >> what's important to point out is this team -- these are all patriotic french people. this is a -- while the right wing in france often tries to
denigrate them, these are french citizens and very loyal and patriotic french citizens. >> absolutely. more than half the team is born of families that relatively recently immigrated to france but they themselves were born in france. many of them on the french national team, in the working classes of paris, but that's what made this moment so special. it's brought the country together at a time when it is divided like many countries over immigration. >> so what do you think macron can do here? you have kind of an idea that this -- take the success and build on it. >> yeah, i mean what vox points out so powerfully in its video, which you can find on you tube, is that two things contributed to the success of french soccer over the last 25 or 30 years. first you had this -- actually a succession of immigrant waves
after world war ii, sought out by french governments to rebuild the country and then to meet a labor shortage but second, at the same time this was happening, french soccer was actually in decline. and starting in the 1970s, france made a concerted national effort to find, recruit, train soccer talent. they concentrated their national training academia academy in a lot of these hard scrabble suburbs with newly arrived immigrants and soccer talent. so having integrated immigrants into soccer is can macron do it at large for the immigration problems they're having in french society. can there be -- and i think there should be, a focussed national effort along the lines of the one that brought so much soccer success to finding new talent in these communities, but more broadly, not just soccer players, engineers, mathematicians, teachers,
doctors, you name it. that's the national effort that could be made. and if macron seizes the moment, should be made. >> what i was struck by in the vox piece and yours that you recognize there is an effort, there are forces in europe that are integrating immigrants into the society. we tend to look at europe and its immigrant problems from a particularly dark prism, maybe because in america we do it better but trump who is constantly denigrating europe for immigration and talking about the dangers what might be more helpful is to point out the successes and how they might build on the successes, because those successes are real, as the soccer shows. >> you're right np and in our own society in the united states, immigrant success stories run the gamut of the economy, and it's the same in europe. these countries do have real significant problems just as the
suburbs are producing soccer players, there's also violence, crime, drugs, massive youth unemployment. that's what needs to be tackled. i think what macron is starting to do in revoe cufocussing on t problems makes a lot of sense, internships for 30,000 kids, making sure french companies are not discriminating and most important of all, starting to cut the class sizes. when kids came back to school this september, they found their class size has been cut in half. that over time is going to make a difference. >> so great lessons we can learn from sports and, of course, i should point out that tony blinken would probably call this football, not soccer. thank you, tony. >> thanks, fareed. >> we will be right back. do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts?
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$34.90 more per month. call or go online today. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, and i will see you next week. hello everyone, thanks for joining me this sunday i'm fredricka whitfield. for the first time ever the fbi has pub cli released a fisa request. the more than 100 page surveillance warrant application is on trump campaign foreign policy add visor carter page, listing him as an agent of foreign power. it is heavily redacted but lays out why the fbi was able to conduct surveillance on page in