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tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  July 31, 2018 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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elections. >> jamie, thank you so much. appreciate it. and thank you so much for being with me here. i'm brooke baldwin in new york. let's go to washington, the leeds with jalea leelead starts right now about that. prosecutors say paul man forth had a $15,000 jacket made ofs on tr os on trifrp ski os o house currently has its head in the sand. former campaign manager on trial facing centuries in prison if convicted. and the white house is saying manafort who? and breaking news with only 98 days until the midterm elections, facebook this afternoon alerting the nation that they have identified an invasion of misinformation on their pages. all signs point to the kremlin. plus new signs that north korea is going to north korea. kim jung-un possibly caught red handed making new missiles that could strike the u.s., so about that thaw.
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good afternoon, everyone. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin with our politics lead, mueller versus man forth day one. opening statements where going on right now. prosecutors painting president trump's former campaign chair paul manafort as a, quote, shrewd layer. six men and six women have been seated in the trial and manafort is charged with a long list of financial crimes related to lobbyi ining work in ukraine. prosecutors say he hid millions in dollars. this is of course as the trump team is ramping up its coordinated effort to down play manafort's key role on the trump campaign in 2016. jessica schneider joining me now. and both sides are really laying out their cases right now. >> right now as we speak. this has been a fiery start to
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this big case for the special counsel's team here. we heard from prosecutors laying out their opening statements and they put to the jury really this way, they said manafort lived an extravagant lifestyle fueled by millions of dollars in secret income. and they went on to say that manafort became wealthy from the cash spigot that came working for his golden goose in ukraine. and then the defense, they are making their opening statement to the jury right now. they are blaming this all on the russian olligarchs saying the wy they were paid, that was all the instruction that they gave paul manafort, trying to iftd some t shift the blame here. but all of this a big part for what is a big case for the special counsel. >> reporter: paul manafort is facing the 12 jurors and four alternates who will decide whether he could spend the rest of his life in prison. the president's former campaign chairman appeared in a virginia courtroom wearing a dark suit
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with his hair neatly parted as prosecutors opened their case against manafort for bank and tax fraud, 18 counts in all. manafort's lawyers meanwhile remained resolute. >> doing good. >> any chance that he may decide to flip and cooperate? >> no chance. >> reporter: paul manafort's was the first indictment secured by the special counsel's team last october. his former co-defendant and deputy rick gates has already pleaded guilty and is cooperating. gates is the government's key witness among the 35 they plan to call. this trial is a key test for special counsel robert mueller. judge ts ellis has banned any mention of president trump, russia or collusion from the courtroom, but the indicate still looindicate -- case still looms over the white house since the charges stem from the special counsel's investigation into possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. the white house now trying to downplay the trial and manafort's role on the trump campaign. even though manafort was the campaign chairman for three months. >> this trial obviously centers
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on matters that have nothing to do with the campaign. i think that even mr. manafort as i read it had requested that there be no mention of his brief tenure at the trump campaign several years ago. this has nothing to do with collusion, russia, nothing to come with the trump campaign. >> reporter: the case centers around his past lobbying work for the pro putin ukranian government for which prosecutors say he received $60 million. the government alleges manafort hid millions and failed to pay taxes while still spending the money on real estate and luxury purchases, including homes in manhattan, virginia and the hamptons, expensive suits, and baseball tickets. and prosecutors will present hundreds of e-mails, photos and financial records to prove it. prosecutors say manafort also lied to banks about his income to secure more than $20 million in loans. and this trial now underway, it is expected to last about three weeks.
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and this isn't the only trial that paul than fort famanafort . he is charged with seven counts in washington, d.c., that trial set to start in september. and jake, until then, it looks like paul manafort will remain behind bars. just today a d.c. appeals court rejected his request to overturn the lower court's decision that sent him to jail for alleged tampering. >> jessica, thanks. let's talk about this with my experts. kaitlan collins, the white house even if this doesn't relate to anything having to do with the white house, which it doesn't, embarrassing. this is the president's former campaign chairman. >> and they have been playing the manafort who game for a few months now leading up to this case because they wanted to put as much distance between themselves, the trump campaign and paul manafort as possible. one of their recent responses was we can't comment on nonwhite house employees. which of course paul manafort was the campaign chairman for president trump for several months. but also really with the glaring aspect of all of this, this trial has nothing to do with
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russia, it won't be bringing up any kind of russia collusion or anything like that. but russia is going to be looming over this because of course paul manafort did work for president trump, he did play a big role in the campaign. and he was there for that trump tower meeting with the president's son and the president's son-in-law, that meeting now come into question with michael cohen making the allegation that president trump did know about it. so paul manafort does know a lot that could affect this white house. and in the meanwhile as the campaign -- or the trial plays out, we'll likely see them continue to say that he had nothing to do with the white house or them. >> and bill, manafort has been think charged with bank fraud, tax evasion, other financial crimes. that doesn't discount another possibility that there might be a different indictment coming forward, but certainly nothing right now has to do with conspiracy with russia to affect the election. >> right. but one assumes that assuming if they were a guilty verdict that that might then become leverage that mueller and others would then -- the justice department would have to get him to talk
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more about that interesting trump tower meeting that he was part of. and other interesting -- you were part of it too? you were chuckling. >> i think the 305 years in prison is enough leverage to get him to talk. doesn't have to be anything else. >> but if he really faces that prospect. >> why did not he take the deal? >> because he thinks he is nts in perha innocen innocent perhaps. >> but it is easy to get prosecutions in this case. do you think he is counting on therebeing a pardon coming his way? >> i think he shouldn't count on anything. he needs to mount a robust defense. i saw the 35 witnesses including his former partner rick gates will testify against him. if you looked at the indictment, it is receipretty detailed and of nitty-gritty, changing numbers on bank statements and things that are really kind of in the weeds that have nothing to do with the campaign.
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just to push back on the narrative that paul was supervis supervised, i was there through cory, paul, steve bannon, so i got to see a bunch of it. and i would say what paul manafort did very well was run the convention. paul played a very large role and was brought in as the president states to quell this uprising amongst the delegates. we were very concerned at the convention there was going to be a floor fight for the actual nomination. >> they kept telling us it was hopeless. but actually you guys were worried. >> i want to play sound for you, this is kellyanne conway and rudy giuliani both kind of down playing this case. i want to get your reaction. >> this has nothing to do with collusion, russia. >> paul manafort does not know anything, nor could it be possible that he did. he was with him for four honesties. i was there when paul manafort was there. he was a brilliant gatherer
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ofties. i was there when paul manafort was there. he was a brilliant gatherer of -- >> pretty important role. >> and mayor giuliani said the same thing about cohen, so we should be very suspicious when he says didn't know anything and up comes the tapes. the president has some type of relationship with manafort for about 30 years. and even though what he is being tried for right now has nothing to do directly with the president and russia, russia is still in there, it is about business for russian on oligarchs which we know that the president is infatuated with russia. so i definitely find it hard to believe that the president didn't somehow try to use plan fortplan -- manafort's he only dealt w? who was at that meeting?
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[ everybody talking at once ] >> in june of 2016, the campaign was far, far more concerned with ted cruz and governor kasich. >> he was there march to august. >> so maybe he was able to take a half hour to heat with those russians. >> you were talking about the events that happened while than fort was on the campaign from march until august. take a listen to president tr p trump. >> plmanafort has nothing to do with our campaign. he worked for me for a very short period of time. he worked for bob dole, john mccain, his firm did. he worked for me, what, 49 days or something. very short period of time. >> but it was more than 49 days. but a significant period of tile. from march to august, 2016, during this time line, if those people who are looking at the russia investigation, this is when george papadopoulous ran his mouth for an australian
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diplomat, manafort attended the trump tower meeting with the russian lawyer, jared kushner and donald trump jr. in july president trump asked russia to find hillary clinton's missing e-mails. it is not like nothing russia related was going on during that period. >> that was a crucial period for the campaign. and of course he is not just a delegate counter. he wasn't just the campaign chairm chairman. we hear it was jared kushner running the campaign. then why was he included in that meeting in trump tower? we've seen the president try down play his relationships with people before when it was no longer convenient for him to be close to them. we saw it with michael cohen who he said only did a small amount of business for him. well, that amount of business seemed to deal with karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. so paul manafort did play a role. but we will see them continue to try to down play it.
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>> and to say that the campaign was entrepreneurial and run in a very entrepreneurial fashion with not a lot of direction from the top would be an overstatement. >> the fact is though, what if this is it, what if this is the only case that really gets anybody? you have the russian military intelligence officers aren't going to come to the united states and be tried. what if it is just manafort and financial crimes and ultimately that is it for the mueller investigation when it comes to anything having to do with the trump campaign? >> i mean certainly if that is from a political end in terms of what would the democrats do, you know, the democrats definitely have to run on something bigger than just russia, russia, russia. you will find lots of democrats across the spectrum who are really pushing for the democrats to have a stronger message than russia. but where there is smoke, there is fire. might not be with plan fomanafo might be somebody either. >> take down papadopoulous. >> everyone stick around. opening statements just wrapped. the first witness is about to take the stand. we'll take you inside the
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case of the united states of america versus paul manafort seems to be on a fast track. opening statements wrapped and first witnesses are expected soon. evan perez was inside the alexandria, virginia courtroom. what did manafort look like? >> reporter: manafort looked a lot more relaxed than we've seen him in court lately. he was wearing a suit with some pants that were entirely too long, not really the tailored suit that we used to see him in during the early months of this case. he smiled at his wife and actively participated as his team tried to pick jurors who would be hearing his case. and then while the prosecution laid out the case against him, really took him down, describing police extravagant lifestyle and a liar, he stared down at his papers. his wife was right behind him,
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she had a toeic lo icstoic look face. she didn't look up as the prosecutors were describing the $21,000 watch he was buying. so it is quite a different paul manafort than we used to see a few months ago when he would show up with protesters around outside the d.c. court and wearing those fine suits. >> evan perez, thanks so much. i want to bring in the u.s. southern district attorney for new york before he was fired. opening statements, calling him a shrewd layer, outlining some over the top rich guy stuff. the defense saying the oligarchs insisted on paying him through these secret accounts. is this what you expected? >> what you expect in a case like this where the evidence seems strong, a lot of documentary evidence that i think is pretty specific, hard to get past the idea that he
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didn't, you know, claim income that he clearly got, that he didn't recite in tax return information that you are supposed to, that he had an interest in foreign bank accounts. so the defense can be expected in cases like this to blame other people. they will claim rick gates, the oligarchs, also probably going to blame the lack of awareness or understanding that he was supposed for fill out these documents in a particular way and make certain filings with the irs. so i haven't seen anything so far and just gotten it on social media in the few minutes before appearing here. it is sort of par for the course. >> you've heard trump supporters say look, man forth, this is the big fish, none of the charges are related to conspiracy with russia, so mueller must have nothing on that issue. what would your response be? >> we don't know what mueller has. these cases have proceeded ein stages. so you will have a charge against somebody one day, a superseding indictment the next month or a couple months later. it may be the case that there is nothing else that the mueller
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team has against paul manafort, so certainly we haven't seen it so far. and i understand that the judge in this case has made it clear that there should be no references to the trump campaign and no references to russia at also as not to taint the are jury's thinking. so we don't know. i think there are other shoes to drop that could potentially happen in the future. this is not the only trial that paul manafort has to face. he has another one in the district of columbia coming up in a few weeks. it is possible that the multlel team has more and equally possible that they don't. >> would you expect manafort to blame this on his former number two rick gates? we're getting word that that might be part of the defense strategy, blaming this on gates. >> yeah, i mean typically when you have a cooperating witness who like rick gates in this case was part of the scheme, was charged in the original criminal document, criminal charge, that is the obvious person who you blame because you want to divert
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blame from yourself. so it is sort of defense argument 101. and in this particular case, the uphill battle, i don't know how uphill it is, for the government is that one of the particular crimes to which gates has pled guilty is lying to the fbi. and not just lying to the fbi, but lying to the fbi in the course of an interview -- in the course of a promeeting in which was trying to convince the fbi specifically that he was being truthful to try to get a deal. so the argument that you see time and time again in court, sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't, if you have good corroborating evidence of the testimony of this previously lying witness, sometimes it works. but this is a guy who lied before, he lied to the faces of the fbi, why should you believe him now. so why not use him as a scapegoat to escape criminal liability for yourself. >> what do you make of mueller bringing this trial now? do you think it is part of a larger strategy? obviously just a few weeks ago the grand jury returned indictments against 12 members of russia military intelligence which obviously at least as far
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as i know has nothing to do with this case which is the first major case. >> mueller brought the case i think when you have enough evidence to prove it and to get a grand jury to go along with the charges and accept the indictment. and then the trial schedule was set by the particular judge in both the d.c. case and the virginia case. i don't think contrary to what some say that there is a micro managing strategy about timing of particular charges. obviously you take that into account. i'm sure that the special counsel will take into account as others have suggested the election calendar and not do anything dramatic in the days and weeks leading up to the election. but i don't see any overarching tactical issue here in the timing of this case. >> plmanafort has had multiple chances to make a deal and a lot of people are surprised he didn't. how do you interpret the fact that he has not? >> this is the age old question in all criminal cases. some people flip, why some
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don't. i've seen people flip when they didn't have a lot to lose by going to trial and i've seen people refuse to flip even though they had sanction assistance they could have given the government and instead take their lumps. it is hard to know what is in a person's mind and heart. some people are just in denial and they think they can beat the charges. there is some speculation i know that he is holding out for a pardon at the end of the day. some people don't want to admit that they have committed crimes because their lies are believed by family members. so hard to say. some have speculated that if and when he is convicted at this trial or the next trial, he could change his mind. but it is really for proceunusu prosecutors to want to at that time system of somebody who was obstinate to go to trial and if he hasn't cooperated by now, the likelihood that he will in the future and that the cooperation will be accepted is low.
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>> all right. thank you so much. messing with america n's mind minds, the disinformation campaign that facebook just announced. stay with us. (door bell rings) it's open! hey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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save $200 on this dell laptop does your business internet provider promise a lot? let's see who delivers more. comcast business gives you gig-speed in more places. the others don't. we offer up to 6 hours of 4g wireless network backup. everyone else, no way. we let calls from any of your devices come from your business number. them, not so much. we let you keep an eye on your business from anywhere. the others? nope! get internet on our gig-speed network and add voice and tv for $34.90 more per month. call or go online today. welcome back. our tech lead, facebook announcing that they have discovered an dismantled what they suspect is another russian disinformation campaign aimed at american voters. viewer than 100 days before you
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head to the polls. facebook saying it can't be certain russia is the perpetrators, but all signs point to the kremlin and more than 30 pages and profiles have already been removed. drew griffin joining me now. and is this identical to what we saw in the 20 16 campaign? >> it is certainly typical of the behavior. getting real americans to like and follow these pages. and then sending out disinformation to encourage division in america. and jake, it worked again. facebook calls it in-authentic behavior and though facebook nt can be sure, it sure looks like russia again. 32 pages with names including black elevation, resisters, s land warriors being followed by 290 thourk 290,000 accounts. the fake accounts also setting up and promoting real events and protests aimed at further
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polarizing u.s. political discourse. many of the events did occur, including this one last year in new york city attended by actual americans who likely had no idea that the resisters facebook page was probably run by russians. another event by the same group was supposed to take place in a couple week. resist tors set up a counterprotest at the white house august 10. five other real groups signed on to participate. as facebook was announcing its crackdown on these potential russian sites, the u.s. secretary of homeland security was at a cybersecurity conference saying there is no doubt russia meddled in the 2016 election. >> everyone and everything is now a target. >> and russian actors may be at it again. comparing the upcoming midterm elections to a looming storm. >> today i believe the next
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major attack is more likely to reach us online in an on an airplane. we are in a crisis mode. the cat 5 hurricane has been forecast. and now we must prepare. >> reporter: facebook says the current pages all shut down have the hallmarks of the activities the russians did around the presidential election, though there are some differences, this time the pages didn't lead back to russian ip addresses and they used third party services to buy ads to boost their posts and encourage people to follow the pages. we did find the leader of one of a real protest group apparently duped by the fake sites, and he was shocked that russians could be behind this. facebook now in the process of notifying everyone who was in contact with these 32 fake sites letting them know that these groups are most likely russians trying to meddle in the u.s. political discourse. >> drew griffin, thanks so much.
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we should point out as we discussed here in reaction to the facebook announcement this afternoon, senator mark warner top democrat on the senate intelligence tweeted more evidence that the kremlin continues to exploit platforms like facebook to sow division. the top democrat on the house intelligence committee tweeted it is clear much more work needs to be done before the midterms to harden or defenses. dividing us along political and ideological lines as dan coats said warning lights are blinking red. you are out there among the voters in ohio. are voters ready for this, are voters aware of how much on facebook and other social media might be russians or others causing mischief? >> i don't think necessarily. i think people who are focused on this like us and others in washington may be more in tune, but the average every day person is not necessarily on there talking to family and friends.
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they don't know that russia or any other actor may be involved. but the more -- i think the deeper question here is what are we going to do about it. we meaning the private sector and public sector will have to come up with something to stop a lot of this from happening. whether that is educating the public in a way, you know, more knock on doors face-to-face, maybe that will get the politicians to go door to door now, go old fashioned. because you definitely can't depend on the internet. >> and there has been a lot of report along the lines of the fact the different agencies are not getting leadership from the white house when it comes to one big strategy, one big defense plan to ward off this kind of thing for 2018 and 2020. >> and everyone has showed concern for it except the president. that is the one person who is in charge of really gathering all the momentum for something like this to lead this charge to protect this election, the most sacred right that americans have. and director of national
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intelligence dan coats just warned that this is going to happen. he warned about social media specifically and then we saw that the way that the president doubted his intelligence on stage in front of everyone next to the russian president vladimir putin. and though the president later went back and said yes, he did side with the intelligence community, you saw for yourself what the president said on the world stage and then it threw dan coats' future into doubt. so you can see the state of that and how it really depends on what the president says. >> so i don't necessarily think that these cabinet secretaries, they are all veriable, rigy abl? we saw secretary of dhs say we know the russians meddled. we're doing all we can to work on this. i assure you secretary pompeo and all the cabinet officials are doing everything within their power to combat this. and people at home are looking at facebook and they look real. >> we just got some sound from
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white house council kelly an council talking about the facebook announcement. let's roll that if we can. >> the president is very clear that he is against interference in our elections. i think secretary nielsen and vice president pence are both making that clear in their remarks today. >> i couldn't really hear what she was saying there, but -- >> look, i think facebook situation is a problem. russia is a problem. but to be totally honest, the main source of fakes news of that information in this last 18 months has not been russia, it's been the president of the united states. and i'd like to return to the president -- seriously, i don't want to obsess about trump, but it is true. i find this in my own dealings with people. people can discount what a relative sent them somewhere. people can tell some of the russia agitation. but when the president over and
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over and over shows no regard for the truth, repeats falsehoods, that has impact. people are used to respecting the president. the president said it, well, okay, he isn't really right about x, y or z. well, the president said it. so i'm fine we should deal with facebook and russia, but we shouldn't forget the main purchase var of falsehood is the president. >> and there is a governor's race going on in florida right now and in the republican primary, one of the candidates congressman ron desantis just unleashed an ad -- released an ad in which he is talking about how much he worships, how much fealty he has to president trump. let's play a little bit of that. >> ron loves playing with the kids. >> build the wall. >> he reads stories. >> then mr. trump said you're fired. i love that part. >> he is teaching madison to talk. >> make america great again. >> this is what it comes down
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to. who is trumpier. >> the original north korean. >> president said it down there today in tampa, it will be a big rally, tough primary fight. voters along the i-4 corridor, i'm sure it is aimed at them. this is a primary race. i know everyone is surprised that the prime aerts people run to the right or left of the primary. >> being much trumpier to be the governor nominee. i know ron desantis. he went to jail. captain of the baseball team there. army veteran. intelligence t guy. this is what has happened to the republican party in miniature. responsible congressman has become -- at least presents himself as a devow teecult. >> he is a minute any i me.
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there is something beyond the primaries called the general election. there is a large latino population he puerto ricans. >> absolutely. if he thinks that is the only way he will win, he may win the primary, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee him a win in the general. what does that look like? telling your children build the wall, using your children as props, their right to do, but i think it is wrong. and he is just being a mini me. >> and one of the concerns that some republicans and obviously president trump versus the republican staeksment is notest a story line, but some republicans in town get upset that the president gets involved in these primaries you because they think he picks the guy that is the most trump-like. not necessarily the person that can win the general election. this is also going on at the gubernatorial contest in georgia. >> aging roy moore, dorsed roy e
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saying they needed him because doug jones would vote against all of his things. but that is a concern. the president will be traveling a lot this fall and takes concern it is a concern of his that they could lose the house. so the president will be on the road a lot more. but when the president is on the road for these people, he is rarely stumping for them and giving them the full endorsement. normally it is endorsement for whatever he is tweeting about that day. that is likely what we'll see in tampa tonight and likely what we'll see as he is on the road this fall. >> and it is another thing for the candidates to be so unbelievably -- >> different party, bill. >> it is. different country, i'm afraid. >> you are both correct. stick around, a lot more still to talk about. if you follow president trump's logic, collusion is a crime but only if it involved democrats and you're talking about it on sunday. but if those two things aren't true, then it is not illegal.
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a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! we're back. on sunday president trump wandered why isn't mueller looking at all of the criminal activity in real russian collusion on the democrats' side?
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podesta, dossier. today the president trump said collusion isn't a crime, but there was no collusion. i want to bring in jeff zeleny. the president's other lawyer jake sekulow is now pushing this collusion is not a crime line as well. >> reporter: he is. and this is proof that it is no accident or stream of conscious mistake. it is the legal strategy. and they are arguing that the trump campaign did not collude with russia. and if they did, it wouldn't be a crime. but jake what they are not saying anything about is conspiracy. that is what legal experts say is at play here. they have become two of president trump's favorite words. >> there was no collusion. >> reporter: from the oval office -- >> no collusion. >> reporter: to camp david to
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mar-a-lago. but today he changed tunes. he said collusion is not a crime, but it doesn't matter because there was no collusion. and that turned heads. two days ago he tweeted why isn't mueller looking at all the criminal activity and real russian collusion on the democrat side. >> there was no collusion with russia other than by the democrats. >> reporter: so is collusion a crime or isn't it? that question went unanswered today by the white house. the president suddenly embracing the line of defense first offered monday by rudy giuliani. >> they won't be colluding about russians which i don't even know if that is a crime. >> reporter: echoed today by another lawyer jake sekulow. >> but collusion isn't a crime. so i think that was twisted out context. >> reporter: while there is no federal statute for collusion, anyone found conspireing with russia could be charged with
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other crimes. the sudden shift came without explanation. but it hardly changes how those words have been a sound track of trump campaign rallies. >> there is no collusion. no collusion. no collusion, no nothing. russian collusion, give me a break. >> reporter: all eyes will be on florida tonight where the president is appearing at a rally and could expound on the collusion confusion. all this as the fate of white house chief of staff john kelly's future is resolved. the president marching hking hi year anniversary in the oval office. >> general kelly became chief of staff. >> reporter: the president asked him to stay on at least until 2020, cooling for now speculation about his departure. so kelly is staying on as chief of staff avennd he wanted every to know that. so at least that is resolved for now. but of course chief of staff nor
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anyone works under a contract like that. all of this is still up to the president. but it settles one thing, he has made it a year as chief of staff. that is something that even he thought might not happen a year ago. >> jeff zeleny at the white house, thanks so much. my experts are with me. i guess this is the big question. why the change of strategy now and why the change of the argument. used to be there was no collusion, this is all crazy conspiracy theory. and now it is very clearly whether it is issa or some trump supporters or whatever, you start hearing collusion is not a crime. nothing wrong with it. why? >> and why is rudy giuliani looking into the federal code to see if it is a crime if it is something his client did not commits and it is not something he is supposed to be worried about. those are all the questions that rudy giuliani raises when he does this slew of cable network interviews saying comments like this, backtracking sometimes things that it is hard to follow his lodge he can when he is explaining what donald trump is not guilty of or what he is
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guilty of. >> he wants it that way. >> you think the confusion is intentional? >> i do. >> and all of this is about whether president trump knew about the meeting in trump tower, something his long time friend michael cohen is now alleging that he did know. so president trump did know about that meeting, that meeting it is obviously you cannot solicit something valuable information from a foreign agent which is what donald trump jr. walked in to made meeting thinking he was getting dirt on hillary clinton, though he didn't. so it raises questions about what it was the president knew, when he knew it and all of that stuff. >> and you said though he didn't, which has been their consistent line. but how do we know that? i think we now know fairly well that we can suspect the president did know that thing that he claimed he didn't know. but how -- >> ofafter the fact or before? >> either. that unlisted number --
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>> the number jr. called. >> he claimed that it was about adoptions. but everyone still seems to somehow believe because they said it so often that nothing really came of it, nothing useful was produced. we don't know that. maybe they established an open lie so that on october 7 i think it was when the "access hollywood" tape came out 32 minutes laert the russians dumped or wikileaks leaked all the podesta e-mail conveniently. so who knows what happened in that meeting. >> bob mueller knows. and that's what we'll find out at the end of this investigation. and so we can hypothesize. but the collusion stuff, i think rudy is throwing a lot in the air trying to confuse people. he says a lot of different things and media chases every one in a different way. but i think the fact that the president keeps pointing on ultimate that even if -- let's assume that the meeting happened. let's assume that it went down
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just like it went down. the crime may be, what, an ftc violation? let's assume it went down exactly as everybody says -- >> we don't know what the violation -- >> ftc violation? >> but donald trump knew about it. he says he didn't. he learned in july a year after the meeting happened. but now there are these questions -- >> michael cohen, the gooey who ta guy who taped all his clients? w guy who taped all his clients? >> the strategy is collusion and confusion. that is absolutely the strategy in this administration. the strategy of rudy giuliani and he does it very well. he is so good at it. this is not by accident. because they want to submit in the minds of the american people especially his base who is on first, who is on second, who is on third. that is their strategy. >> you just think rudy is kind
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of confused? >> it is hard to track his logic sometimes and what he is saying in those interviews. i think even the white house doesn't want to be accountable for the things rudy giuliani says. they have made that quite clear in all the briefings. >> they don't want to be accountable for what the president says. >> but to bring it back to what question know for sure, robert mueller the special counsel wants to know what the president knew. we know that that is a focus of his inquiry, that is a question he wants to ask president trump if he does ever sit down with him, something rudy giuliani says is increasingly unlikely. and we also know that the president and his legal team believes this is a strategy of winning over the public opinion. because in the end it could be that robert mueller issues this report saying here is what happened and then there are no charges for the president or anything like that, whether you believe there could be an indictment or -- >> at the end of the day, unless he indicts the president, this all goes to rod rosenstein and gets dropped at the house. >> and ultimately becomes very
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political. thanks everyone. president trump said everybody can now feel much safer after the north korea superintendent summit, but do new image tell us the opposite. ♪ you shouldn't be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia's add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia. add-on advantage. behr presents: ordinary versus overachiever. behr premium plus, "behr" through it all with a top-rated paint at a great price. find it exclusively at the home depot. new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys.
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despite president trump bragging about how successful his summit with kim jung-un was, today there are troubling new signs that north korea is building more missiles. the "washington post" reports that spy satellites spotted work on two intercontinental ballistic missiles that could potentially hit the united states. cnn's barbara starr filed this report. >> reporter: tonight north and south korean military officials meeting for fresh talks on reducing tensions. just as new commercial satellite imagery shows north korea could be building new liquid fuel ballistic missiles according to
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the "washington post." this despite the trump administration's hope that north korea would give up its nuclear weapons following the singapore summit. so the critical question is what has north korea been up to. >> what we're seeing with the intelligence leaks as well as the unclassified satellite imagery is a continuation of production as well as even the expansion of production facilities for fissile material. >> reporter: no signs that kim jung-un is shutting everything down despite the underground nuclear test tunnels being destroyed and some limited dismantlement at a satellite launch sigte. top intelligence officers said it is classic north korean tactics. >> i'm not surprised north koreans might be trying to be
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decepti deceptive. >> reporter: and also warning recently north korea may still be producing nuclear fuel for warheads. >> we haven't seen complete shutdown of production yet. we have not seen removal of fuel rods. >> reporter: if there are new liquid fuel ballistic missiles, several u.s. officials say it is not all that concerning because liquid fueling takes long enough that spy satellites can see it and offer early warning. the larger u.s. intelligence concern, advanced solid fuel missiles can be fired in surprise. the way ahead, now has slowed. >> we have no rush for speed. the relationships are very good. so we'll see how it goes. we have no time limit. >> if we've abandoned time lines, abandoned the pressure, it seems to be that the trump administration has embraced the obama administration's policy of strategic patience. the longer negotiations drag out, the less resolve there is.
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>> reporter: the most important intelligence might be the very highly classified communications intercepts and eavesdropping on kim jung-un to find out what his real intentions may be. >> barbara starr at the pentagon for us. coverage continues now with wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, breaking new, manafort on trial. in the first big court test for special counsel robert mueller, former campaign chairman paul manafort goes on trial accused by prosecutors of hiding millions in secret income from taxes. could manafort turn on president trump to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison? russia attacking again? facebook shuts down dozens of pages that it says may have been tied to russians spreading disinformation ahead of the mid term elections. is the kremlin once again targeting u.s. voters?