tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN August 7, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
thanks very much for coming in. keep up the good work at the white house. that's it for me. i'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in the situation room for our international viewers, amen pour is coming up next. newsroom with brooke baldwin starts right now for those in the u.s. ♪ hi there i'm brooke baldwin, you're watching cnn. right now prosecutors getting done to the nitty-gritty of their case against paul manafort and very shortly the defense will get its turn to cross-examine the prosecution's star witness. manafort's former aide bill gates. it focuses on shell bank accounts that manafort used hide millions of dollars. rick gates testified about his boss's money troubles, 2015 and
2016, gates admitted to false information to help manafort get bank loans. earlier the prosecution presented e-mails showing manafort directing gates to move that money around. let's start with our cnn reporter outside that courthouse in alexandria, virginia. talk to me, he's not on cross-examination yet, correct? >> reporter: that's right, brooke. gates has been fielding questions from prosecutors for nearly three hours. just resumed from a lunch break and that's expected to continue for a little bit longer, but the judge has been pressing the prosecutors to move along with their case, so think cross-examination will begin any time now. this morning, though, gates has been measured, calm and matter of fact as he connected the dots for jurors about the alleged scheme he participated in. he described how manafort was paid by ukrainian businessmen for political work. how he and manafort met with lawyers to set up bank accounts. how he was constantly fielding requests from manafort to wire money and specifically how he
also wired money to some of these vendors that we heard about last week, including the clothing people that ostrich jacket. he explained how those money flows went there. so he's connecting the dots for prosecutors. he also explained how he helped falsify documents at manafort's request at the banks so manafort could get mortgages and he also explained how they falsified his tax returns, explaining how they moved things that should have been income to loans and back to back dated documents. at one point manafort was under financial duress. prosecutors showed an e-mail of manafort sending to gates which manafort says w.t.f., we need to discuss options. this is a disaster. he's instructing gates to help him come up with some solution with the accountants about how to fix his tax returns so he doesn't get hit with quite a large of bill as he was expecting. so gates' testimony is continuing and we expected the cross-examination to begin in a
little bit. >> all right. thank you for that. i have great legal minds seated next to me, now former federal prosecutor, garrett burger, robert bionci and federal and white collar criminal defense attorney caroline polisi. let's look when gates' is in the hot seat and is cross-examined. let's start with you, barrett. won't the defense basically say this is the admitted liar here. this is the master mine. they're going to pin this all on him. this is the reason -- this is the guy who should be on trial, right? >> that's exactly right. i mean, i would expect them to have a whole line of questioning where they said, look, you are an admitted liar. you pled guilty. you sat down face to face with investigators and you lied to them and they believed you, basically trying to insennuate that he is continuing to lie, he's lying to the jury and this is all his fault. this is a common defense argument in these kinds of
cases. i think what would be a hallmark of a good cooperator is somebody who would stay calm and stick to the facts. not make it personal and what gates has going for him here is this is not just his testimony. his testimony is only valuable in the sense that it is corroborated by all the other witnesses that testified in the trial and by the documents that have come in. >> caroline is nodding. >> it's a tried and true defense tactic to say you lied initially. he pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators which is in of itself lying. the old line is you lied then, why aren't you lying now? but the fact is we heard from cindy yesterday who is the accountant and he testified that in many instances she was dealing directly with manafort to falsify these documents, to make it look like he had less taxable income and creating these sham loans so that he was saved essentially $500,000 in taxes. >> so, bob, you essentially have the admitted liar versus the
accused liar. this is how one of our legal analysis said. who are jurors most likely to believe? >> brooke, as a prosecutor you have to be careful who you put on the stand. when you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. they had a great paper case going in there. they have direct evidence. so by putting gates they made gates now the centerpiece of defense. here is how this works out in sum mission, it's very important. they'll argue, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, all that stuff they showed you about the accounts and bookkeeper, they knew that wasn't enough and that's why they had to put rick gates on the stand to prove their case otherwise they wouldn't put him on. you're going to convict my client, a guy who lied to the fbi, all the motive in the world to lie against him because they didn't need him, they wouldn't put him on. i think that is where they're going to go. of course the prosecutor retorts with that, who benefitted? and in the end, they're going to
try to argue why would gates be lying about all this when most of the time when he wasn't stealing manafort's money, manafort was the one benefitting from it. i think it could have been a risky move to put him on given the case went in so well. >> if you're a juror sitting in this courtroom, there aren't any cameras, we go by bits and pieces we get, we know down to the color in the courtroom. i was reading yesterday describing the death stair manafort was giving gates up on the stand. today now they're starting to look somewhat in the same direction at one another. how much of that matters to jurors? >> it matters a lot because jurors are watching every single thing that's going on, every nuance, every glance. they're impacted by this. you know what i found interesting, when he was able to -- when manafort says outloud to his lawyer, no, you got the wrong exhibit number, essentially, it's 257 i think what it was. what is the jury going to take
away from that, i guarantee there's one juror that says he doesn't know about his finances, he's not a detail guy yet he knew enough about this case based on thousands of pages of documents that his lawyer was using the wrong number? it's little things that show he's smart, sophisticated he's in charge. >> we know car dpoline he met w gates 20 times ahead of testifying. >> it's a lot of times, but it's not unheard of. it's the government's job to get gates ready for this testimony. now, you can bet, brooke, that the defense is going to harp on the number of times that gates met with the prosecutor saying they essentially coached you along and you said what they wanted you to say and things of that nature, but the ultimate trump card, if you will, on the prosecutor's side is that this cooperation agreement that gates signed, it's not over yet, right? it's a letter that the prosecutors are going to send to
the sentencing judge when he gets sentenced detailing the extent of the cooperation that he provided. if he lies even one little bit on the stand, brooke, they can rip it up, rip it right up. that's often something that prosecutors will talk about. >> what about how also also big picture here, these were two key figures, manafort and gates in trump's orbit? they got a shoutout from trump in july of 2016. we know the crimes that at least gates is admitted to, berit, how brazen, how surreal is it that these two figures were part of all things trump? >> i don't think that can be underestimated. another important thing to remember about gates is that his cooperation agreement is not simply for him to testify against manafort. so this is for him to work with the prosecution, to testify against anyone they need him to testify against. so i think it would be foolish to say, well, after he's done
with manafort, he's done. they got what they needed out of gates. we don't know the extent they'll use gates in the future of this investigation. i mean, he may have information that he's given the prosecution about other people right within that inner circle. i mean, both he and manafort had these incredible positions of trust. they were in the inner circle. and i think we only have to wait and see how else they're going to use gates' testimony. >> could -- as gates has gotten a deal, depending on how this goes, this is all like follow the money, right? so, could there be an 11th hour acceptance or offer from manafort to cut a deal or is he just sitting there waiting maybe for a pardon? >> it's not unheard of to cut a deal in the 11th hour. it's been done before. >> it's not. >> it's been done even when the jurors are out in deliberation. i don't see that happening here. clearly manafort is digging his heels in. he feels like he's above the law. that's one of the themes that has run throughout this case. he was put on pretrial detention
for witness tampering in his other case prior to this trial. so he has displayed an enormous amount of hubris throughout this. i don't see him taking a deal. >> thank you so much as we continue to wait and watch for the cross-examination to potentially happen this afternoon. we have other breaking news, michael cohen, president trump's former lawyer and fixer reportedly under investigation for tax fraud with federal prosecutors in new york specifically focussing on and does it involve cohen's former boss, president trump? also, developments on special counsel's robert mueller's investigation. reports that president's legal team are reluctant to let trump answer any questions in person on obstruction. what happens if they refuse? and my colleague and friend, don lemon, responding to president trump's personal attack on himself and lebron james. in case you missed it, we're going to play it for you. you're watching cnn, i'm brooke baldwin.
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from the "wall street journal" this afternoon, they are claiming that michael cohen, the president's former fixer and personal lawyer, is now under investigation for possible tax fraud. new york federal prosecutors are looking into possible underreporting of his tax medallion business and federal tax returns and failure to provide proper documentation for bank loans. we should point out that lanny davis declined to comment out of respect for the on going investigation. just again, reaffirming for you, so possible tax fraud, all going back to his days in new york city with the taxi medallion business. >> right. we've known for a while that investigators have been very interested in his business
dealings and the work that he's done particularly in the taxi medallion business. so we know that there are wide range of things that they've been looking into. obviously we know that investigators have taken a ton of information from his home and his office, his hotel room. i think the big question is whether -- since we are talking about things like loans, financing, potential bank fraud, whether they end up touching on anything that michael cohen might have done that is related to his work for president trump. you know, if you think about the fact that he was the person who was involved in setting up this payment to stormy daniels, we know that that $130,000 ended upcoming from michael cohen, as investigators look at his business dealings do they decide, this touches on the work that he did for president trump and then do they make the calculation that that information might be helpful for them to get directly from michael cohen. those are obviously questions we don't know the answer to yet. but i think, you know, if anything, this is just yet another reminder and sort of
confirmation of what michael cohen already knows which is that he is potentially in a lot of legal trouble. he doesn't need another headline to tell him that. >> which we'll get into other potential pressures to cooperate. but first, isn't this just follow the money trail for prosecutors? >> absolutely. we know that michael cohen's former business associate known as the taxi king of new york recently took a very good what we refer to as sweetheart deal, a no jail time deal. you have to wonder what he gave investigators for that deal. i don't think this was a surprise to anyone, brooke. >> smaller fish to the big fish. >> yeah. >> why could this be part of the reason why cohen and his team maybe also declared public war on trump? are they looking for a deal, do you think, bob? >> i think that's a great question. two great developments happened. first off, classic scenario, almost like the manafort trial, lot of money, medallion company goes down the tubes. what is happening? tax evasion and bank fraud. it's virtually the same thing. fraud people 101 on how to get
in trouble. but here is the thing, brooke, on sunday when president trump tweeted out that tweet about don jr. -- now, understand prosecutors only want to use you as a cooperator if you have valuable information that you don't know about. cohen has been gyrating in every way possible, here i am, somebody look at me, please. the president knew about the trump tower meeting prior to the meeting itself. in an odd way, the president is already fit part of what the prosecution needs. it was for political purposes. therefore they were trying to get dirt on hillary clinton. that could be a violation because you're not allowed to accept money from a foreign entity or foreign person. and now the second piece is what did he know and when did he know it? cohen now because of that tweet is more important to prosecutors than he was on saturday. >> so, cohen, former trump lawyer, current lawyer being rudy giuliani, we also have one more piece of news from dana bash, today, tomorrow we're
expecting the volley back from team trump to robert mueller, no, we don't want our guy, president trump, answering questions in person that have anything to do with obstruction, right? they're okay on collusion, not okay on obstruction. if you're robert mueller, caroline, do you just accept that? do you say, okay, okay and still get the man in for an interview and then maybe juke left and ask a question any way? i mean, how does that work? >> absolutely not. if you're robert mueller, you're thinking, okay, i've got the law on my side. we have of course the nixon precedent, but it's not exactly on point in terms of if this went to a subpoena and went up to the supreme court, i think likely mueller feels he has the law on his side. that's going to take time, brooke. they want to get him in there on a voluntary basis to be sure, but not, you know, giuliani doesn't get to be in the driver's seat in this instance. mueller is a special prosecutor. he gets to set the guidelines. this back and forth is ridiculous.
it's all dramatics. i think quite frankly i think this is all just a front. i don't think president trump has any one bit of an intention of going in there and sitting down and talking. >> total ruse. i'll go in. >> good cop/bad cop. >> quickly, bob. >> first of all, it's essentially an admission we're not worried about collusion but we're worried about obstruction. mueller is only playing a little game here. he calls the shots. i was a head prosecutor. this is how it works. you come in or don't come in. answer all our questions or don't answer our questions. mueller is protecting the record saying i tried. you don't want what happened saturday happening in front of federal prosecutors. >> appreciate that enthusiasm. coming up next here, primary night in america with huge story lines unfolding right now including the president trump effect. can he give republican candidates a boost or does president trump's endorsement do more to rally the resistance? we'll look at the key races unfolding today. and exploding in size, california's wild fires nearly
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looming over all this, of course, president trump and his very big shadow, so let's go to our chief political correspondent dana bash. dana, you have a big night ahead of you. talk me through the big themes for today. >> let's start with what you just laid out there the president. he looms large on and over pretty much everything in politics and elsewhere. and what's going to be interesting to look for is how he plays in different kinds of races. so first and foremost, we have this special election in ohio. it's been a republican seat for almost four decades where democrats haven't even come close and polls show that the democratic candidate there is coming close. the president went out over the weekend and campaigned for the republican troy balderson. republicans i talked to say that that was really, really critical to getting the base gined up.
this is a special election. but at the same time, his presence there, you see there's some video of the rally, could just as well embolden the so-called resistance or even independents who are just done with the president, done with republican control in congress and might say, you know what, i'm going to go out and vote for the democrat because it reminded me to do that when i saw the president. we'll see. the other thing vis-a-vis trump is how he plays within republican primaries, brooke. in kansas, there is a republican primary for the governor's race. there's an incumbent republican, and the president is supporting the republican challenger, guy by the name of chris kobach who had been a long-time supporter of the friend, supports the notion that the president claims falsely by all accounts that there were millions of people who voted illegally in 2016. but he is somebody who again is sort of a like-minded republican
as the president. when the president has backed other republicans in primaries, martha robe in alabama, it has had an effect and helped those candidates. we're going to watch to see if he has that pull or has it in the state of kansas. >> okay. so that's republicans. democrats, you sort of have this intraparty battle, right, between the more far left, bernie sanders' wing and the democratic establishment. how is that shaking out? >> we're going to have several tests of how that is going to shake out in various races tonight. you're right, bernie sanders along with alexandra cortez have been on the campaign trail really trying to support the more progressive candidates in some key races. and one that is perhaps the most notable is also in kansas. it is a race to see who the
democratic candidate is going to be to challenge a republican and the republican's name is congressman yoder. this is one of those hillary clinton districts, brooke. so it's in a red state, but hillary clinton won this particular district. and democrats on the national level are kind of concerned, are pretty concerned that the more progressive candidate who they want, his name is brent welder could win. it would make it tougher to beat the incumbent republican. and that is going to be one of the tests, first of all, to see if bernie sanders and his sort of help get this progressive candidate over the finish line. if they do, whether or not a progressive can win in what should be a very, very competitive district, one that will potentially help seal the fate of democratic-controlled house in november or a republican one. >> all these tests, the final ones before, of course, the general in november.
we'll look for you tonight, dana, thank you so much. >> thanks, brooke. we are getting some news just in that the trump administration wants to limit citizenship for legal immigrants, essentially punishing those who receive government benefits like welfare. find out who is behind this policy push. and as rick gates testifies against his former partner, paul manafort, is president trump sitting there watching in realtime, following what happens when a loyalist flips and makes a deal with prosecutors and spills everything they know? we'll talk to his biographer about how he may be feeling next. >> tech: at safelite autoglass, we really pride ourselves on making it easy for you to get your windshield fixed. with safelite, you can see exactly when we'll be there. saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪
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contributor about the truth about trump. he joins me now from new york. michael d antonio, what do you think trump is thinking with this trial playing out in that federal courthouse in virginia, watching gates, a loyalist of his, flip, cooperate and testify in court? >> well, i'm thinking of a cartoon or a movie where someone is out on the ice and they start to see a crack forming and the crack races towards them or maybe it's a fuse lit on a stick of dynamite. this is all headed for the white house. i think donald trump is the ultimate target of all of these investigations, obviously, that's mueller's intent is to get to the bottom of russian conspiracies. and one thing that struck me in
the recent testimonies is references to the bank of cypress. the owner of the bank of cypress when manafort and gates were doing their shady business there was the same russian oligarch who paid donald trump $95 million for a house. and that deal netted donald trump 50 million in profit. i think it's too close for comfort for the president to be hearing all of this talk about the bank of cypress and it's too close for comfort for wilbur ross who subsequently gained control of the very same bank. >> precisely on your point of money, you have this president who is we were talking commercial break has to be following every twist and turn of this trial, he is getting this realtime look at when your accountants, your bookkeepers testify against you. >> he is. and i think that it also is probably evoking in the
president's mind other proceedings where guys in really expensive suits trek into a federal courthouse, raise their right hand and turn on each other. you know, this is thing that's familiar to anyone who watched movies about the mob or actually followed mob trials in lower manhattan. there's no honor among these thieves. they're eventually going to turn on each other and cut the best deals for themselves. and if ultimately this means that someone like michael cohen or perhaps the accountant that was brought into testify in the southern district of new york from the trump organization, if they see that they're in great peril, they're going to throw over the president. we saw on sunday the president himself distancing himself from his own son, saying i knew nothing about that trump tower meeting and yet admitting that
it had to do with conspireing with russians. so there's great concern i'm sure in the oval office. i imagine he's watching us and fox news simultaneously and seething about this all day long. >> but this whole cast of characters that we're talk about because they've been kicked up in this whole massive investigation, the paul manafort trial and rick gates being on the stand, we've been talking about michael cohen and recently about the manhattan madam. these are all people in the trump orbit, these are people trump has chosen at some point in time to have by his side. >> all the best people know. this is a guy in president trump who bragged that he knows how to find the best people but suddenly think about how michael cohen has been treated in the
month since it's been clear that he's been cooperating. he went from being a very fine man in rudy giuliani's estimation to giuliani then condemning him on every network he could get a car to take him to. so this is a terrible prospect for donald trump, but it is the chicken coming home to roost. this is a man who moe dus op ren die for his entire life is to go up to the edge of propryty and go past it when it suited him and especially if there was money to be made. these are not the kind of people you and i would be comfortable with for more than five minutes, but they're all sort of -- they have the goods of each other. >> sure. >> it reminds me of a massive criminal enterprise where i know your secrets. you know my secrets. we're in this standoff and there might be 50 people engaged in this same process of breaking
the law or breaking regulations and then threatening the others to come clean if it's convenient. >> to go back to end where we began with our cartoon analogy with the crack on the ice or the fuse, we shall see. mueller, you know, the jury is still out how close that will get to this president. michael d antonio, you're always a pleasure. thank you very much for coming on. thank you. coming up next here, what cnn is learning about a policy proposal involving stephen miller that would punish legal immigrants already leaving in this country who received government benefits and why this proposal months in the making is apparently still under review. and next, it's getting personal. don lemon responds directly to president trump's hateful tweet against himself and lebron james. you'll hear it next.
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president trump's latest battle to curb immigration in this country may create another legal quagmire. cnn learned he is considering a plan that will limit citizenship for legal immigrants. yes, legal immigrants, that means green card holders who eventually want to become u.s. citizens may never get that chance and there is a shocking reason why. tal, why? >> well, so brooke, there's this law in the books that's been there for some time that allows the government to reject an immigrant that they say may become a public charge or
someone who is dependent on the government. for a long time that's mostly been in referral to sort of what's known as cash benefits. what the trump administration is trying to do and what stephen miller, trump's close adviser is really pushing hard to get out the door is a policy that would greatly expand the scope of how that policy is endorsed. and it would be for, as you say, immigrants living in the country who may already have a visa who then want to take that next step, extend that visa, go ahead and get a green card, start that path to citizenship and it could even a apply to them if their children get u.s. benefits. programs designed to benefit their children could be used against them when it comes time to renew. it's programs that are pretty wide and may not be what you associate with being below the poverty line. this proposal we've seen some early drafts of would even include subsidies for health care under the affordable care act which is for people far above the poverty line.
it could be wide reaching the way they want to rewrite it. >> so stephen miller's idea. would congress need to approve this? >> the way that this is being done, no. so it's being proposed in the regulatory process. so the department of homeland security worked on a draft of it, sent it to the white house back in march. we're told by sources that the delay has been in part because it came fairly ripe for legal challenge. so they've been working with various agencies to revise it a number of times over the past several months. stephen miller is reportedly infuriated by the delay, according to my sources and really wants to get it out the door. once it's out the door, lit go through the normal regulatory step, so there will be some time for members of the public or interested parties to comment before the agency finalizes it, but after that, it can have the full implemented effect and only a court challenge would be able to stop it or congress passing some other law on top of it. >> stay on this for us, please,
tal, thank you so much in washington. my colleague and friend don lemon responding on tv for the first time since the president's hateful tweet against him and nba superstar lebron james. in case you missed this, the president apparently watching cnn friday night during don's interview with lebron james who spent millions of his own money to open up this school in ohio and eventually pay for student's college tuition, james went on to talk politics and said he would never sit down with the president. so, cue the tweets. the president calling don dumb and suggesting the same about lebron james. that has the president facing new accusations of racism. so don responded in part this way -- >> let us not -- let me not mince words here. this president traffics in racism and is fueled by bullying from keeping children at the border in cages to bullying journalists at every one of his
rallies and every chance he gets. president trump is trying to divide and conquer strategy here. he divides by race and tries to conquer decency by smearing and besearching the truth and the people who fight to uphold it. i wondered sometimes if he is -- if he will succeed? if president trump who has his finger on -- he's the one who has the finger on the pulse of this country. is he revealing who we really are? think about that. is this who we really are? the overwhelmingly negative response, though, to his unfair and unkind attack on a good man, lebron james, shows that america rejects what he is peddling. most of america, any way. not all of america. but what about the impact his policies have on those without a platform through sports like lebron or through media like me? what about those who don't have
a voice? what is his presidency doing to them? the kids separated from their parents at the border, the kids who don't have the chance to attend lebron's school or any half way decent school? is parents who can't honestly tell their children to be proud of the president of the united states? the people of color who are attacked by their fellow citizens who feel emboldened to be publicly racist because the president is. will the country stand up for them? we, the decent and truly patriotic people who really love america and believe in its greatness, have to. because clearly donald trump won't. >> we stand with you, don lemon. and please, watch the whole thing. go to cnn.com. coming up, back to our breaking story, today president trump's former lawyer michael cohen reportedly is under
investigation for tax fraud. what federal prosecutors in new york are focussing on there. next, serena williams opening up about a deeply personal issue that so many moms can relate to, her struggles talking about potentially post partum emotions, how it impacted her game on the court. we will talk to working mom, poppy harlow next. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life.
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slam champion wrote in part, last week was not easy for me. not only was i accepting some tough personal stuff but i was in a funk. mostly i felt like i was not a good mom. it's totally normal to feel like i'm not doing enough for my baby. we all have been there. i work a lot. i train. and i'm trying to be the best athlete i can be. however, that means although i have been with her everyday of her life, i'm not around as much as i would like to be. serena gave birth to her baby daughter last september and she has struggled to bounce back on the tennis court, pulling out of the tournament just this week siting personal reasons. so with me now to discuss cnn anchor, mom of two precious children #balancingact, poppy harlow. so it's a beautiful -- i follow serena on instagram. he's a stud. he's a bad ass, but she also feels the push pull, too. >> i was so struck by this because we don't talk about this
enough and that's why i wanted to be it on my show and why i'm so glad to be here with you because we have kids and we want to do it all and you just can't or you can't do it all at the same time but so few of us admit that. here is this, as i said, my male manager this morning, right, a man we know well, said to me it's so important because she's this rock star woman, so powerful, et cetera, and she's admitting that she can't do it all. she's admitting i'm dealing with these post partum emotions and it's normal and we need to talk about it. and to hear that from a man in power in corporate america is really important. >> do you have those moments? >> yes. yes. >> i'm not the best mom i should be. >> daily. >> daily. >> everyday. everyday i feel like that. i can't have it all and i can't juggle it all and my husband who you know well said to me last night, he got home from a late work trip and he truly does half, truly as you've seen. he said how are you? i just looked at him almost with
tears in my eyes of gratitude but of exhaustion. i just said i'm so tired. and i need to talk about that more. and i have not struggled with post partum depression, but so many of my friends have, brooke. we don't talk about it. and we need to embrace each other. and serena williams talking about these emotions and it doesn't have to be full blown post partum diagnosed depression, can be the baby blues, but let's talk about it. let's embrace each other. let's have the men in our lives support us like the women. everyday i go home -- to be here with you, someone has to pick my kid up for school and my doctor's appointment for my son has to be later. but that's the juggle. let's talk about it and get through this all together and especially women like serena who are dealing with these emotions. let's be here for each other. i was so amazed by her. >> i can't appreciate it, i just have a little dog. >> just don't write that off it's friends like you that trek to brooklyn to be with me that
can't with you. >> i appreciate it. >> speaking of other amazing women, she made headlines this week because she's stepping down in the fall and like serena, she's been very honest about her -- that whole balance issue, work/life. this is what she said back in 2014. >> i don't think women can have it all. i just don't think so. we pretend we have it all. we pretend we can have it all. if you ask our daughters, i'm not sure that they will say i've been a good mom. i'm not sure. stay at home mothering was a full-time job. being a ceo of a company is three full time jobs rolled into one. how can you do justice to all? you can't. >> okay. so we can't have it all. that is nice to hear her say that outloud. can i say what i want more of is more women in high positions at these megacompanies. there are fewer than 5% in
fortune 500 companies where you have women ceos and the numbers are dwindling. she's being replaced by a man. why is this happening? >> it's happening because we're not paying enough attention to it and attacking the problem. we're talking about it. we're not doing enough. it's on all of us. it's on men. it's on women. it's not just her. bless her for being so honest not being the best mom and not having it all. the five women who in the past few months have stepped down from campbell soup ceo to mat, l ceo are all being replaced by men. so those men we hope will be good leaders. and they likely will be. but if you don't have more quality, more parody at the top, companies will not be as competitive as they would be. they will not perform as well. when are we going to stop talking about it and actually being okay with 24 women leading fortune 500 companies. >> no. >> so we have a long way to