tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN November 11, 2018 7:00am-8:00am PST
. this is a special edition of gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from paris. today on the show, a global exclusive, an interview with the president of france, emanuel macron from his office in the palace. macron has spent the week traversing parts of his nation to komen e mcommemorate the 100
verse of world war i. this weekend he's gathered scores of world leaders including president trump to pay tribute with him. i talked to macron about his relationship with trump, about the great war and whether today there have also a danger of discord, miscalculation and, thus, tragic dip. about the rise of populism and how can he fighting it at home and abroad, and about his bold plan to make france great again. but first, here's my take. request c-- with confront willig bad news these days, many tend to think it's a bump on the road and things will work out. president obama said the ark of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. yet could we be wrong in
assuming that in spite some of backsliding here and an election there progress is inexer able? behi behind me world leaders brought to an end the largest and bloodiest conflict the world has ever seen. world war i marked the end of four massive empires, the rise of soviet communism, the entry of the united states in global power politics. but perhaps it's most significant intellectual legacy was the end of the idea of inevitable progress. in 1914 before the war began, people had lived through a world much like ours defined by economic growth, technological revolutions an increasing globalization. it was widely believed than ugly trend lines when they appeared were temporary. to be overwhelmed by the onward march of progress.
in 1909, norman angel wrote a book explaining that war between the anything that's powers was so costly to be unimaginable. the great illusion became an international best seller and just a few years later a generation of europeans was destroyed in the carnage of world war i. could we be similarly complacent today? well, there are serious statesmen who believe so. and in an address earlier this year, emanuel macron said i don't want to belong to a generation of sleep walkers that has forgotten its own past. as the historian christopher clark wrote in his book, the sleep walkers, the statesmen of 1914 stumbled into a gruesome world war without ever realizing the magnitude of the dangers of their isolated, incremental decisions and nondecisions.
mall krone macron has organized a peace force of 60 world leaders to help with eroding global cooperation. are these dangers so real and pressing? if you compare the world today, it feels less like the 1930s than the 1920s. economic growth and technological progress were accelerating then, as now. we are also seeing a surge in nationalism and the breakdown of cooperation, which were the hallmarks of the 1920s. new great powers were ascending as they are now. democracies were under strain from demagogs such as in italy when mussolini destroyed liberal institutions and established control in the 1920s. and this was all amid the growth of populism, racism, and anti-semitism which were used to divide countries and exclude various minorities outside the
real nation. of course, because of these pressures in the 1920s, we got the 1930s. the historian timothy snyder makes a distinction in his new book, the road to unfreedom between what he calls the politics of inevitable, the faith that it's all going to work out and the politics of eternity. the latter is for people like putin. you can bend and even reverse that arc of history. snyder describes how putin did just that in ukraine refusing to accept that it was inevitably joining hands with the west. now putin may not win, the efforts of people like him to reverse the progress of the past might not succeed. but it will take more effort from those on the other side. things are not simply going to work themselves out while we
watch. history is not a hollywood movie. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week and let's get started. french president emanuel macron met last night in the palace. he spent much of the day with donald trump who's first action on french soil on friday night was to tweet. trump's tweet read macron just suggested that europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the united states, china, and russia. very insuttinlting. but perhaps europe should pay its fair share of nato. in fact, macron says its reference to protections against the u.s. was a reference to u.s.
cyber intelligence capabilities. in any event, it was a typical trumpian moved designed to get attention, which is did. i asked macron whether a clash between him and trump was inevitable. >> we had a very good discussion this morning and confirmed in front of the press that it was okay. i think -- >> does that mean that his tweet was a mistake? >> i don't know. i'm not the one to command his tweets. i always prefer have direct -- or answering questions that make my -- through tweets. but we had a clear discussion. he is in favor of a better burden sharing within nato, i agree with that. and i think that in order to have a better burden sharing, all of us do need more europe. and i think the big mistake, to be very direct with him, what i do don't want to see is european
countries increase the budget in defense in order to buy americans and other arms or materials coming from your industry. i think if we increase our budget, it's to have to build our autonomy and to become a natural sovereign power. it's part of our credibility. for all people and the rest of the world. and i think it's fair. i think your president is right regarding that. and i think i'm right to precisely promote this idea. what i do believe is that if at this stage europe has to become a more consistent, more sovereign, the more united in democracy power and today it's not yet the occasion. we building some ve we dild something very original in the past decades, but there's something else to be recognized and this is the case today. >> let me ask you about your
relationship with donald trump. he says knew henow that he's ma with you after the tweet, that you have lots in common. i'm wondering what that is. because he calls himself a nationalist. he draws on these populist forces. and you describe yourself often as one of the great opponents of these forces of nationalism and populism. what do you think you have in common? >> probably the fact that both of us are outsider of the classical politicians, i would say. and, you're right from the business side it was not a favorite and it was an unexpected candidate. and i was pretty much -- in france. probably because we're very much in line against terrorism and we work very closely to together following this line. we know where we disagree. and we are very straightforward in that on climate, on trade, on
division. but we work very well together because we have very regular and direct discussions. but obviously you're right. i would say i'm a patriot. i do believe in the fact that our people are very important and having french people is different from german people. i'm not a believer in a sort of global -- without a -- i think it's very inconsistent and it's extremely -- it makes our people very nervous. but i'm not a nationalist, which is very different for me from being a patriot. i do defend my people, i do defend my country, i do believe that we have a strong identity. but i'm a strong believer in cooperation between the different peoples. and i'm a strong believer of the fact that this cooperation is good for everybody. where nationalists are sometimes
much more based on a untarian approach. and the law of the strongest, which is not my case. that's probably our difference. >> do you think is matters to have a personal relationship with dumonald trump? because of all foreign leaders he seems to warm toward you and yet you tried very hard to keep him in the paris climate deal, he said no. you tried hard, i remember talking to you in washington to get him to stay with the iran deal. he said no. i know from my reporting that you tried to get him to have a united front on trade with the europeans, with the canadians, with the japanese and to go to china with that and he refused. so it doesn't seem that personal dynamics matter that much with donald trump. >> i think it does matter. you're right about the outcome on the different issues. and i was -- about a a&o a rira
you before what was my feeling. but when he commit dodding some vis-a-vis your people and his voters, he delivers full on this line. i do pretty much the same. i like to deliver in line with my commitments during the campaign. so on all the different issues you mention, it's a deed and he's doing exactly what he committed to do during his campaign. and i do respect that and i'm fine with that. but i think this personal relation and our discussions can sometimes highlight some issues at stake. and i think it is very important because it's allows to us have better follow-up. for instance, on iran he decided to leave the gcpoa. but finally he did respect the fact that we decided to remain. and because of this personal relation and our discussions, he
accepted the fact that we will remain in the gcpoa, we have a different approach and we coordinate each other, which for me is the best way to avoid big crisis in the region and to avoid increasing the tensions. so i think it's very useful. on the climate change, we still have very regular discussions. at a point of time, believe me, the u.s. will join again -- i mean, the global community on that for sure. because your people want it, because your business leaders want it, your civil society wants it. so it's very important. so i think my -- ability is to optimize the situation under certain constraints and my responsibility is to bear in mind that our bilateral relation is deeply rooted in your common past and has to be preserved beyond.
>> will europe come up with an alternative to the dpl alternative to the dollar as part of the united states withdrawing from the iran deal? >> i think today europe is not clear alternative to the dollar. why? because de facto there is an international identity of the dollar due to its strength. and till now we fail to make the euro as strong as the dollar. we may -- we made a great job during the past years. back up it's not yet sufficient. we are too much dependent on how -- which is an issue. this is an issue of -- >> we will be back with more president macon, but now president trump is about to start speaking at the american cemetery for the american commemoration of world war i. let's listen in. >> american battle monuments commission for doing just an
absolutely fantastic job. exactly 100 years ago today on november 11th, 1918, world war i came to an end. thank gods. it w -- god. it was a brutal world. millions of troops fought with extraordinary skill and valor in one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history. we are gathered together at this hallowed resting place to pay tribute to the brave americans who gave their last breath in their that mighty struggle. earlier, melania and i were deeply honored to be the guests of president macron and bridget at the centennial commemoration of ar mimistice day. it was very beautiful and well done. to all the dignitaries in
attendance with us now, thank you for joining us as we honor the service members who shed their blood together in a horrible, horrible war, but a war nope known as the great war. he were joined by many distinguished military leaders. thank you to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staffer, general joseph dunford. ty, general. thank you. army chief of staff general mark milley, thank you, mark. supreme allied commander europe general curtis, general, thank you. air force commander europe, general walters, thank you, general. thank you as well to the members of congress who have joined us, ralph abe bra ham, anthony brown, john cotter, paul cook, henry wayar, bill high zynga,
john rutherford, and steve stivers, thank you all very much for being with us. thank you develvery much. i know you wanted to be here very badly. we appreciate it. in the united states, armistice day is now enshrined as veteran's day. we have a number of amazing veterans with us today, including six veterans of world war ii, james blaine. james? where's james? james, thank you, james. frank davita. thank you, frank. thank you very much. you look so comfortable up there under shelter as we're getting drenched. you're very smart people. pete dupray. pete, thank you very much.
gregory mellakin. thank you, gregory. steven meldakof. and jay trimmer. thank you, jay. thank you. you look like you're in really good shape all of you. i hope i look like that someday. you look great. america's forever in debt and we are forever in your debt. we really appreciate you being here. we're also joined by another very special guest, a 13-year-old boy from the united states named matthew haasky. he's in the hateth grade aeight worked and saved all his money to make this trip to france. he wanted to be here in person to honor the american heroes of world war i. matthew, thank you. you make us very proud. where is matthew? matthew. matthew, thank you very much. you're way ahead of your time,
matthew. thank you. on this day in the year 1918, church bells rang, families embraced in celebrations as you know kilde fillfilled the strees throughout europe and the united states. but victory had come at a terrible cost. among the allied forces, more than 1 million french soldiers and 116,000 american service members had been killed by the war's end. millions more were wounded, countless would come home bearing the lasting scars of trench warfare and the grizzly horrors of chemical weapons. during the final battle of the war, over 26,000 americans lost their lives. and more than 95,000 were wounded. it was the single deadliest battle in united states history. think of that. 26,000 americans lost their
lives in a battle. here on the revered grounds of american cemetery lie more than 1,500 u.s. service members who made the ultimate sacrifice in the first world war. among those buried here are legendary marines who fought in the battle of bellawood. in that stretch chin that forese world, allied forces fought and they fought through hell, to turn the tide of the war. that's what they did, they turned the tide of the war. it was in that bat that will tl marines earned the name devil dogs to describe their ferocious fighting spirit. john kelly knows that name, devil dogs, very well, john,
right? earlier this year, president macron presented an oak sapling from bellow wootd aswood as a gr nation. you fought well together. you could not fight better than we fought together. sergeant eugene wear from has willton, pennsylvania, was one of the marines at bellowwood. he raced straight in a borage of enemy fire that no one has ever seen before to bandage his friends' wounds and carry them back to safety. one year later he was more theally wound and he pasted away right after christmas. his mother would come here to mourn by the grave of her precious son she loved him so much. she was one of the thousands of american moms and dads who's beloved children found their final resting place on the
hillside. each of these marvel crosses and stars of david marks the life of an american warrior, great, great warriors they are who gave everything for family, country, god and freedom. through rain, hail, snow, mud, poisonio poisonous gas and pushed on to victory. a great, great victory. costly victory but a great victory, never knowing if they would ever again see their families or ever again hold their loved ones. hear the words of a young soldier named sergeant paul maynard from a letter he wrote only a few days before the end of the war. deer moth dear mother i think of all at home and i know if i am spared
to get back, that i shall appreciate home more than ever, ever before. it will seem like heaven to me to be once more where there is peace and only peace. on november 11th, 1918 paul died in the final hours of battle just before the end. now, sadly he did not make it, he was among the countless young men who never returned home. but through their sacrifice they ascended to peace in heaven, left in peace, paul. the american and french pay the yofts worthe -- patriots of our nations honor the love and loyalty, grace and glory.
it is our duty to preserve the civilization they defended and to protect the peace they so nobly gave their lives to secure one century ago. it is now my great honor to present major general william matz with an american flag as a symbol of our nation's gratitude to the american battle monuments. the commission has done such an incredible job and, general, we very much appreciate it. today we renew our sacred obligation to memorialize our fallen heroes on the soil where they rest for all of eternity. thank you very much. and, general there are say great hon -- is a great honor. thank you very much.
[ applause ] >> thank you all. god bless you. it's been a wonderful two days we've spent in france and this is certainly the highlight of the trip. thank you very much. appreciate it. [ applause ] >> that was president donald trump speaking at a memorial that represents american world war i casualties. on thursday, the gps team was with president emmanuel macron when he visited a memorial to french german and commonwealth soldiers killed in the war. there he solemnly reviewed the troops and laid a wreath on the tomb of the unknown soldier. macron who is steeped in history and genuinely committed to the idea of reconciliation, he's puts it, as gathered more than 60 world leaders in paris not far from here where i stand to
talk about peace today. >> the paris peace form that you have started, it comes out of a fear you have that some of the pillars of stability in the world are not so stable anymore. and you have talked about not wanting to be one of these generation of sleep walkers who for gets the past. i wonder, is part of that -- that forgetting of the past, that the united states has forgotten the role that it has played? because when i talk to people in europe, there's a real sense that one of the crucial pillars of stability that has kept the peace since 1945 was america's unwavering commitment to europe. and people do worry that under president trump that commitment is no longer as strong, perhaps not even there. >> look, i would not say that exactly like that. i think peace is always very
fragile, for sure. and that's why i think it was very important to take such an initiative with this peace forum and that what i wanted to do, especially these days, 11th of november, for the end of the first world war. because probably we won the first world war, but we lost peace at that time. the first pillar for me is, yes return deed, to be deeply rooted in our common past. being very much attached to freedom and always remember the cost of the end of peace. because nobody has in mind this cost. the first world war is 10 million people killed. it's huge. coming from everywhere in the world. it was a generation devastated. so i think it's very important to do it this day and many order
to remember and to remember that peace is very fragile. second pill simil second pill similar cooperation. and after the war -- >> to build nations. >> exactly. to build a first cooperation between nations. it was the very first time. and woodrow wilson played a very important role, even if the u.s. didn't join this common group. but he had a very important role. the u.s. had a very important role. and it failed. it failed because of probably the humiliation after the first world war. >> and the -- of germany, and lack of participation of the united states. >> probably the lack of participation at the time, definitely the financial and economic crisis. and the raise of nationalisms and tote tote tal tear nix.
and it led us to the second world war and a new massacre. so that's why i do believe that cooperation is the second pillar of peace today. how to work together. and i'm a strong defender of that. sometimes people consider it's too long, very painful, but for me this is one of the very important outcome of the two world wars, of the 20th century. mega shading, discussing, finding compromises is always better than war. and it's very important. obviously in such a context, this cooperation, the role of the united states is very important. and we need the u.s. commitment for such a cooperation, because your country has a very important role if the was -- i mean, during the past decades, the u.s. played in certain ways a last resort role of this
international community. so we do need your involvement. and that's why i always fought, and i fight against an order to have the u.s. very much involved in this cooperation. that's why i think it's important to have the u.s. participating to climate change, participating to the different initiatives and that's why i do believe it's very important to have president trump present for this date. >> but chancellor merkel of germany has been very clear, she says that europe needs to recognize that it cannot rely on the united states as much anymore. is that the reality, the new reality of the world? >> look, i think the new real of the past decade, it didn't start two years ago, the recent years were very much directorized by decrease of the u.s. in certain regimes. and i think the u.s. remains our first ally everywhere and a very
important and key partner in syria and middle east, in africa and in different places. especially wins a fight against terrorism. but after the second word war, the u.s. played a very important role especially for nato. and it's changing. it's changing because of the fact that your president want the burden sharing. and i think, i have to say, i share his view. i share his view because if after the second world war we needed the u.s. to be present for our security. i think now the momentum for europe is to build its own security and its own sovereignty. than and i think it's noting some against the u.s., and that's a very good compliment. obviously we have to share common values. we have to work together on common goods against inequalities, against climate change, against all the destabilization of the current
environment. but what europe needs is to build its own capacities and it's autonomy in order to protect itself. that's why i'm increasing my investment defense from the classical difference we say to the cyber, and that's why i do want to build more solidarity with europe. and i think it's very important. because if you want to build an actual europe, if you want to reinforce and the strength of all europe, you have to confaye have -- convaey the message in peope in hungary, and everywhere, europe is the one to protect them and not another border. >> next on gps, the waves of populism have come ashore all around france, but macron has fought against populism. how does he survive? he'll tell us when we come back. a migraine hope
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a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! a wave of populism has rolled over the united states, the united kingdom, italy, many other nation's cross the globe. but in pop list and power are close enough that they define the agenda. in france today, though, it's emanuel macron who sits in the palace, not his populist challengers. let me ask you how you intend to tackle this wave of populism that is sweeping across the western world and some place beyond the western world. it seems to me that your answer has to be an aggressive
reformer. but a lot of the reforms seem a lot like the kind of ideas that tony blair or bill clinton had in that you are in favor of markets and you want markets to operate, but you're also in favor of protections for the weak, social justice. and that combination used to be called the third wave. is that what you're presenting, just you are a more energetic and better proponent of these ideas? >> i think it's different because the french history is different. we didn't have 20 years ago the third wave. so you can see some similarities. but i would say my strategy's very different. first, i have to restore competitiveness and rebuild an economic social model. and that's what i fixed the first year, was very important reform on labor law, tax cuts, and economic reforms or labor market and for power corporate rates. obviously it's very painful. it makes you less popular,
definitely. you decrease in polls. but it's fine. and i have a five years mandate and i'm not obsessioned by polls. but i had to do so and i had different lines of reforms because france was the only country in europe, and especially in the europe crowe row zone to ha -- euro zone one of the highest unemployment rates. when you having soe something b 8% to 12% of unemployment, it creates big destabilization because you have people for years and years and sometimes decades. when you have an unemployment rate for young people at around 15% in some neighborhoods 25%, it creates big disorders. and this is the situation in my country. so the first pill similar to make my country more competitive and i work hard to do so.
the second pillar is having much more investment on human innovation and capital. if we want to be one of the leader of the upcoming world, we have to work on artificial intelligence, industry of the future. new agriculture and so on. the third pillar is about sofrpt at t -- safrpt at tovereignty. i believe market economy and social justice. i want to decide for my people because i'm elected by them. i don't want a global market to decide for my people. and for me, these three pillars, fixing the model, building a new investment for the future, and being more sovereign is the best answer to the nationalists.
and those who play with the fears, why? because i don't like to use the term populists because that means you're always with people. i don't want to least exclusivity of i'm with people. >> what about the cultural issues? because one of the areas where at least the left in general, i know pure not exactly right or left, but the left has had trouble is that it provides a very compelling answer sometimes to most -- many people on the economic side. but it has no answers to the cultural anxieties that are moving people. >> you're right. >> immigration, things like that. >> this is my famous third pillar when i speak about sovereignty, i think you have to provide a culture, answer. for me the first one can communication. that's why i wanted to restore the fact that we teach our literature, we reinforce presence of our literature, good language for our people. and i think we have indeed to
restore in depth our history to be proud as people, to be proud of our history and our culture. and to explain that we have a dna. and there is no global people without any differences. >> next on gps, earlier in the week i toured a car fact trip with president macron and while we were there i asked him about france's economy. his attempts to reform it, the difficulties. that tour, that conversation when we come back. in chipotle's kitchen, you won't find any artificial ingredients, freezers or microwaves. cause our kitchen's for, you know, cooking. real ingredients, real flavor. chipotle. for real.
how are you? very good to see you sir. such a pleasure. carlos, how are you my friend? >> all week president macron has been touring around northern and eastern france, the areas of the country that were hardest hit by world war i and are now hardest hit by economics. i was with him on thursday he's toured a plant.
the chairman and ceo of the parent company. at the event, they announced a new line of vans would be made at the plant adding some 200 new jobs in this struggling region. macron campaigned for the presidency on a platform of reforming france's economy. a legendarily difficult challenge. and by most accounts, he has delivered, making deals with unions, weathering months of on again, off again strikes, and enduring a difficult economic climate. he promises to persist with the next round, including pension reforms next year. after macron's tour, the factory had to get back to work, so we met in a gritty office just off the factory floor. when you look at a plant like th this, do you think this plant. pro duch product of your reforms?
>> i think it's because of the dynamic industry because there's a recovery in the automotive industry, and that is the first result of our policy. we decided to make tax cuts for companies, we decided toen crease capital when invested in the company. we decided to reform in depth our labor laws and labor organization. and we streamlined a lot of regulation. all this regulation and taxation were absolutely killers for our industry. and that's why we destroyed so many jobs in the country. what's happening now, and this is a very first result of the reforms passed last year or beginning of this year is that there is a recovering amount of investigate mend and corporate. and here he zidecided to invest million. and they decided to invest 450
million euro and create at least 200 jobs, direct jobs. this is very important indeed and that's why my strategy is to accelerate this transition, to facilitate investment, facilitate training program, because this is one of the key element of my strategy, how to train and retrain people, especially people with local education or nonqualified employed people. and how to help this kind of neighborhood via my very aggressive poll. >> i so many, many french presidents have talked about reform. they sent a letter to every frenchman talking to retform. are you going to be able to stay with the reforms even if there are more strikes and problems? >> absolutely. because first i speak about transformation rather than reform. what i try to explain in order to grow to this final point, you
have to explain it's not something to repair the company, but to build a new economic and social pillar. sikd passed at the very beginning some very important reforms upon taxation, on labor, on railway system. some of the reform considered as totally impossible in france, we did it, it's done. >> and yet growth in france is not quite what you want it to be. >> for sure. >> what's left? >> look, growth and all the macroeconomic figures are not the result of the first reforms because we just pass the reforms a told you. but some of these reform we tote t pass ally -- totally passed four, five, six months ago. so you take 18 to 24 month at least, that's why i want to reform include all the big reforms because i know you need time to get results.
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vote last year becoming france's youngest leader since napolean. his upstart political party swept the parliamentary elections. but since then his ratings have sunk. so what makes him tick? >> probably the most important decision you made in your life other than deciding to run for the presidency of france you made when you were 16 years old. you fell in love way woman who was your teacher who was 24 years older. when i look at it and i think about what you must have gone through, the difficults with yo -- difficulties with her family where are your family, society at large, is that a powerful window into understanding you? >> probably. probably. probably she's much, much more bold and courageous than i am. because she was 40, she has a
life, and it's total different. and so i think the main merit is my wife's merit. but, for sure what i built at that time, what we built together is not to be obsessed by what people think about you. but when you are convinced and sincere about what you are doing, what you don't -- when you don't lie to yourself and to the other, you build something which was seen as impossible, definitely. >> when i ask people in france how you're doing, what they often tell me is, well, his poll ratings are very low now. how do you deal with the fact that, you know, they have gone down a lot? >> yes, i mean, i'm not obsessed by that. you are not elected by polls. and i don't have midterm
elections. i'm -- i have five years mandate and what i have to do especially in this current environment is to deliver. that's totally true that my polls decreased because i pass very unpopular reforms. and guess what? i was elected precisely because all my predecessors failed or decided not to deliver these reforms. i do believe that the reforms are a necessity for my country and are a necessity for the future generation. what i have to do now is to be totally dedicated to the implementation of that. i have to spend more energy to explain these reforms to my people and that probably how i can recover. and i have to show the results will come in smeemesters or yea of these reforms.
my view is that my duty, my mission, is to fix the country from an economic and social point of view. it's so build a new social model for france and europe with new protection for people in this current environment in order to reduce inequalities. you're right, the situation today is definitely less favorable than one year ago. it's not a big surprise to me. but yew refou refer to my perso past. i spent many years, many years, without the respect of a lot of people. i spent many years even with people i loved would doesn't totally understand what i was doing. but at the end, because it was sincere, because i was precisely consistent can with myself and i never stopped, they recognize and they accepted. so i'm personally -- that french
people will progressively recognize and agree with the fact that we are doing our best for the country and we are serving the country for the future. >> mr. president, a pleasure for to us have you. thank you so much. >> thank you very much. was my pleasure. thank you very much. >> pleasure. >> and that is is it for this special edition of gps here in paris. thank you for being part of my program today. i will see you next week. i'm brian stelter and this is reliable sources. our look at the story behind the story of how the media really works, how the news gets made, and how all of us can make it better. this hour, democrats making huge gains on election day. but the election still isn't over yet. every day that passes the results are better for the