Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  January 4, 2019 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

6:00 pm
topping off on 360, the human cost of the shutdown. the president gave a press
6:01 pm
briefing and said the 800,000 government employees who are out of work or working without pay are okay with that pretty much. he threatened to declare a national emergency and build the wall without congressional approval and according to new reporting from the "wall street journal." the president cold lawmakers he doesn't like the word shutdown but prefers the word strike. let that sink in. while you do, let's go to manu raju. and what between congressional leaders and the president? >> i don't go productive. the president said in the meeting that this could go on for years if this is not resolv resolved. there's a price over process and policy. democrats made very clear they don't want to negotiate on issues such as the president's wall and other related matters, immigration and the like until the government is reopened. the president said he wants
6:02 pm
funding for his wall before the government is reopened and that's not even close to -- we're talking about policy which the two sides are opposed on the issue of the president's wall. the president made clear at the onset of this meeting that he wants $5.6 billion for his wall but democrats are only offering $1.3 billion for border security. they're saying it's not -- it can't be related to his wall so the two sides are on so silt sides of a key issue and can't agree going forward vice president mike pence said that staff level discussions could take place could take place and there will be talks to white house staff and hill litership staff tomorrow. mitch mcconnell later said perhaps they could get closer to a deal by next week but that is expecting a lot of staff to come to an agreement that the
6:03 pm
principals aren't close to reaching. >> what was the reaction on capitol hill? >> well there is growing frustration and impatient about this. you're hearing some frustration among rank-and-file republicans who want the government to be open while the wall fight is negotiated. you saw last night some republican defections, up to seven in the house, a cup senate republicans also saying let's open the government and negotiate later. on the democratic side, mostly are in line with nancy pelosi, at least one freshman house democrat today told me pelosi needs to go closer to the decision of the money that the president is proposing to are reopen the golt but most democrats in the private meeting today in line with their leadership believing they have the stronger hand to play so the question is who blinks first? the president warning this could
6:04 pm
go on a long time. that's the one thing both sides agree on this. this could take time. >> appreciate it on the personal and human toll this is taking. cnn learned hundreds of tsa officers at at least four airports around the country have called in sick, as many as 170 a day at new york's kennedy airport. sick calls are up about 200%. workers can no longer tolerate working without pay or can't afford to and are working other jobs. randi kaye found out, whether at work or not, tsa officers are under enormous strain right now. >> reporter: brian turner may look like he's on a leisurely walk with his wife and baby but the 28-year-old tsa worker is stressed. thanks to the government shutdown, he has no idea when he'll get another paycheck. >> i was last paid about a week
6:05 pm
ago and until the budget is pazzed we won't receive pay again. >> reporter: brian worked for the tsa for six years and is based at philadelphia's airport. he's considered an essential employee so he has to work but he is not getting paid. >> i live a half hour from work and it will come to a point where you say do i put gas in my car or feed my family. >> that's a hard decision. >> absolutely it is. >> reporter: it's come to that and the couple says they will run out of money by the end of the month unless the government reopens. that means they could lose their house, a huge concern with five-month-old el dwrliot to ca for. >> what do you worry about for this guy? >> our child care payment is more than our mortgage. we're stretched thin and without the paycheck it's almost an impossible situation. >> we are a paycheck-to-paycheck family and so we do depend on that constant income.
6:06 pm
>> reporter: his wife works but that second paycheck, brian's paycheck, is critical. >> i need to fill up my car with gas and i went until i had a five-mile range left on my car before i have to -- there's no other option. >> reporter: brian says he blames both sides and he's frustrated congress is still getting paid when he's not. as a tsa worker, he understands the need for security but -- what is more important? the border wall or paycheck? >> paycheck. planes still need to go up. we need airport security. we need customs and necessary services to keep the government running. >> reporter: and you want to get paid for that. >> absolutely. of course. >> reporter: he's tired of watching the washington blame game play out. >> you feel hopeless and he helpless. i'm not in washington, i don't have the influence these people of power have. we let them to these positions to get a job done, i feel like
6:07 pm
it should be done in a way where we can have conversations about border security and keep the government open. when you don't have a paycheck coming in and a guaranteed source of income when you thought you did, it's disheartening and it makes you feel a little panicked. >> do you have a backup plan? >> i don't have up with right now and my backup plan is to hope that the two sides reach across the aisle and come to an agreement. >> randy kai kaye joins us. i know you called him back to get reaction about what the president said. >> i asked him what the president said. the words he used "most of those not getting their money are the biggest fan of what the president is doing." meaning workers are in full support of what the president is doing. in response i asked brian about that and in response he told me
6:08 pm
i don't know where he's getting this from. as a federal employee who does work to protect the homeland everyday, i'm not a fan of this approach at all. he went on to say to this to the president directly. don't speak to the 800,000 people who aren't getting money right now. don't say we're okay when we're not. so strong words from this tsa worker not getting paid. and i wanted to get back to what you said about the tsa workers calling out sick. at philadelphia international airport, we haven't seen long lines, it seems like business as usual so it's unclear if it's affecting this airport. he said he would call out sick as a last ditch effort to save his job. >> randi, thank you very much. appreciate them talking to you. for perspective, nia-malika henderson, steve cortez and rick wilson, republican strategist and author of the book "everything trump touches dies."
6:09 pm
rick, you have tsa screeners calling out sick because they're not getting paid. i'm going to get that doesn't make you feel better about our national security. >> one of the departments taking the biggest fit of trump's stompy foot rage episode is homeland security and so tsa and the guys helping to prevent terrorists from boarding our aircraft are not being paid and air traffic controllers are not being paid and it took a bunch of juggling in the executive branch to get the coast guard paid so we're seeing the impact on the economy and americans and our safety and security because donald trump is a juvenile who is going to have a hissy fit until he gets his precious wall and this could easily be resolved. he has to step down off the cliff and stop asking for a fantasy wall in order to deal with the reality of the harm he's causing to the economy.
6:10 pm
>> steve? how do you see this? where do you see it going? how does it get resolved? >> i'm puzzled first that rick says there's harm to the economy because we just got a jobs report today that was absolutely gung bust gang busters. >> that's from five weeks ago. >> manufacturing at the highest level. >> so don't tell me it's from harming the economy. >> five weeks ago. five weeks ago. >> don't pretend you care about working class -- >> five weeks ago. >> you were calling those of us who support the president calling us rubes. >> five weeks ago, steve. >> spare me the routine that you care about working class americans. >> steve, all the trumpian tough guy talk -- >> you condescend to working class. >> all the tough swagger talk until somebody punches back. >> you talk down and punch down to working class americans and mocks. >> when the shoe fits, i'll shove it on. >> and you call us toothless and you call us rubes so spare me a that you care about working
6:11 pm
class people. now i do, including people who work for the tsa and there are bad stories out there and it's unfortunate and i feel for people like the gentleman you profiled who's worried about paying his bills, that is a real reality. i will say this, though. it's temporary pain, it will be rectified and that temporary pain is to prevent permanent pain that millions of americans have faced because of our essentially open borders policy. by that i mean dealing with dangerous illegal aliens and competing in the work force with illegal alien workers who made people lose jobs permanently not temporarily so there is -- the near term pain is very unfortunate but it's to prevent long-term pain. >> as the president painted himself in a corner, nia? even senator lindsey graham says if the president gives in on wall funding it's probably the end of his presidency. >> in many ways lindsey graham is holding t ing thing the pain
6:12 pm
have people like ann coulter and rush limbaugh. he was ready to compromise and setting without getting funding for the wall and there was water walling from the conservative chattering class so he buckled to that contingent. it's hard to know how he gets out of this at this point. he's throwing all sorts of scenarios at the wall here saying on the one hand no mexico is going to pay for it through usmca which doesn't make any sense he said oh, maybe there's a slush fund he can figure out with the u.s. military and they can pay for the wall, he's also suggesting the wall is already being built, also not true, there are repairs going on the existing fence so it's hard to know how he gets out of this without seeming to fold. his supporters are by and large very supportive. they're emotionally attached to
6:13 pm
this president so he probably could sell in what -- what would be a folding by him. he could sell it as a win because that's what they want to see. so there is a meeting tomorrow. i think we'll hear more stories from folks like that tsaman who you talk about this idea of temporary pain, when you have to pay your mortgage or fill your tank with gas to get your-to-your job that doesn't feel temporary and for somebody like that it could have long term consequences so we will get more stories like that and not just in washington but all over this country. >> rick, the president three weeks ago in front of chuck schumer when he calls in cameras with the face-to-face with nancy pelosi when he got riled up and said he would take the mantle of it being a trump shutdown. today that seems like he's done a 180, he was like make it's a schumer shutdown, a pelosi
6:14 pm
shutdown, but the words don't matter. >> i think donald trump is demonstrating something that a lot of people in the real estate business know, the guy is not that good at negotiating. he's not that good of a deal maker and the image on tv from t adiffere -- "the apprentice" is not the real donald trump. i know someone who did a deal with him in florida and they took him to the cleaners. most polling says the public blames either donald trump or the republican party or both for the majority of this, almost two-thirds of the public blame him and it's not turning out the way he thought it would. so you'll see a continued grinds and no matter how many times he calls it the schumer or pelosi shutdown. when they're putting out counterproposals to his wall idea and saying we can turn the lighting back on tomorrow, just walk away from something that is
6:15 pm
a fantasy that's always been a rhetorical trope and not a security policy, the pain will builds. you've seen guys in the senate. i spoke to a chief of staff who was beside himself because they're up in 2020 and they're worried that this is impacting people at the state level and they're blaming donald trump for it. >> steve, there was a deal with -- congress voted on this, they had a plan to continue funding and then the president backed out. how can it be anything but his shutdown? >> well, listen, i'm glad the president did if, in fact, he was willing to make that deal. we don't know that, that wasn't on the record but if the reporting is correct it's good he did. i think he was reminded by people like me, people who worked for him so ardently in 2016 that this was the foundational promise of his campaign. he has been a promise keeping president since the day he got
6:16 pm
elected but this is really -- one important promise he needs to keep and since that time cnn reporting tells us he has offered a compromise. more than i would like that he cut his $5 billion number in half in negotiations with the hill and their response, nothing, you get zero. that's not compromise. compromise isn't saying we get everything we want and you get nothing you want. he wasn't subtle about this. >> but mexico will pay for it. it was a free wall. it wasn't a wall that americans would pay for it was a wall that would be free. that's a great idea it's just not what he's following through on. >> it can be, there's a lot of easy ways to do that. the easiest ways is to tax remittances. >> but he's not talking about that he's pretending mexico is already paying for the new trade
6:17 pm
deal. >> which hasn't even been finalized. >> we have to take a break. we'll continue this discussion. we have to get a break in and we'll also talk about something else that came up in today's shutdown meeting. later the robert mueller grand jury gets renewed for another season. a look at what that could mean. with moderate to severe crohn's disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? i hope so. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
6:18 pm
before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible.
6:19 pm
i'm 85 years old in a job where. i have to wear a giant hot dog suit. what? where's that coming from? i don't know. i started my 401k early, i diversified... i'm not a big spender. sounds like you're doing a lot. but i still feel like i'm not gonna have enough for retirement. like there's something else i should be doing. with the right conversation, you might find you're doing okay.
6:20 pm
so, no hot dog suit? not unless you want to. no. schedule a complimentary goal planning session today with td ameritrade®. saved an average of $412," syou probably won't believe me. but you can believe this, real esurance employee nancy abraham. look her up online. esurance, it's surprisingly painless. president trump talked about the shutdown since he got the support of government workers either furloughed or working without pay. he says landlords won't mind if they don't get the rent. he says he doesn't even like calling the shutdown a shutdown. he told lawmakers at the white house today he prefers calling it a strike. the "journal" and cnn reporting he opened the meeting with a 15-minute profanity-laced rant not about the shutdown but impeachme impeachment. steve, you said the foundational basis of why this wall is important is because it's the
6:21 pm
foundational basis of the campaign but part was that mexico would pay for the wall and that's not happening so that foundation has already crumbled, no? >> i wish the president would talk about it more but there are easy ways to recoup the money from mexico, the easiest being taxing remittances. but we need it so immediately we can't wait to negotiate with the mexicans. they're not going to willingly hand us a check and put in the memo "the wall." but over time we can get them to pay for it. >> numbers are at record lows. so what is the needs more immediate now than ever before? because of what's going on -- it's primarily not mexicans it's central americans who are attacking our border. >> they're not attacking -- >> the caravan happened on new year's day. >> they're not attacking the border and numbers are -- >> well, when you storm a border and throw rocks at our law
6:22 pm
enforcement officers, i call that an attack. when you try to break and enter and trespass into the united states, when you hurl rocks at law enforcement authorities who have to defend themselves with tear gas and have done so responsibly and professionally so far i call that an attack and by the way, who cares what i think about the wall? the border protection people tell us we need the wall. the front line cops guarding america -- >> those are union officials. >> the majority are mihispanic. >> those are union officials. >> 89% said they want a wall. this is not just trump's idea and this is not some shiny object he wants to build, the on-the-ground cops tell us they need it and want it. >> rick, the idea of the wall, though, according to -- i can't remember what book is it was a by a for candidate trump to remember to talk about immigration. it was an idea brought up, i think if i'm remembering, by
6:23 pm
bannon. >> he's not a tremendously informed guy and so the wall became an easy shorthand but history is repeat with examples of walls working out brilliantly. the maginot line stopped the germans from invading france for a whole half hour. hearing a hadrian's wall stopped the invasion. the great wall stopped -- waits, none of them did. walls are not a functional means of defense. you know why the u.s. military doesn't build walls? we recognized years ago any time you build a wall around yourself you're inviting subversion and something to go around or under or through or over so the idea of a physical wall, donald trump loves selling this to his base and, again, these are people who are not sophisticated, they don't understand the complexities -- here we go with condescending to us -- steve, if the shoe fits wear it. >> that's why we want a wall,
6:24 pm
right, rick? >> that is donald trump's target audience. he's a con man who works unsophisticated people successfully. he's always been -- >> i wear your sword as a badge of honor rick wilson. >> donald trump works his con on people who are not sophisticated? >> people like you are why we won in 2016, rick wilson. condescending political elites -- >> steve is mexico paying for the ball? is he building the ball? no. is there a wall being built? no. it's a con, a lie, a scam and it always has been. >> i think -- >> we're going to continue on. thanks very much. so there is more to talk about tonight, we'll take a short break in just a moment and look at while the government remains partially shutdown, a big part
6:25 pm
of the robert mueller probe avoided a shutdown. more on that next. -we're in a small room. what?! -welcome. -[ gasps ] a bigger room?! -how many of you use car insurance? -oh. -well, what if i showed you this? -[ laughing ] ho-ho-ho! -wow. -it's a computer. -we compare rates to help you get the price and coverage that's right for you. -that's amazing! the only thing that would make this better is if my mom were here. what?! an unexpected ending!
6:26 pm
is if my mom were here. my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish. but those days are over. now i take metamucil every day. it naturally traps and removes the waste that weighs me down. so i feel...lighter. try metamucil and begin to feel what lighter feels like. take the metamucil two week challenge and lighten up. just take metamucil every day for two weeks. are you ready for the challenge?
6:27 pm
get started at metamucil dot com. amazon prime video so when you say words like... show me best of prime video into this... you'll see awesome stuff like this. discover prime originals like
6:28 pm
the emmy-winning the marvelous mrs. maisel... tom clancy's jack ryan... and the man in the high castle. all in the same place as your live tv. its all included with your amazon prime membership. that's how xfinity makes tv... simple. easy. awesome. the work of robert mueller's grand jury is not over but it was about to be. a judge granted an extension allowing the 23-member panel to continue meeting for as long as six months, otherwise the work would have ended this weekend, former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is among dozens of witnesses who testified in secret. associates of former trump campaign adviser roger stone has been subpoenaed. stone expects to be indicted. the grand jury's lifeline is adding to the talk about the possibility of the biggest indictment of them all.
6:29 pm
it's a scenario that house speaker nancy pelosi calls an open discussion. neal katyal was acting solicitor general in the obama white house, he joins us along with jail law and political science professor akeil amar. neil, it seems like with this exsense of the grand jury that mueller's investigation isn't wrapping up in the near future, would you agree? >> i do and i've always been saying this. mueller runs a tight ship and nobody knows what he knows and that is by design showing his conscientiousness but the standard for an extension of a grand jury is that the judge has to say it's in the public interest and these grand jurors have been serving for 18 months so to add on six months is a big imposition and so there must be some more stuff to come. >> giuliani is out there saying it's time for mueller to put up or shut up.
6:30 pm
should there be a time looix on how long information like this can go on? >> long it takes to get to the tru truth. >> in terms of possible prosecution for the president were mueller to find some kind of malfeasance, neal was saying he believes a sitting president can be indicted. do you think he's right? >> so even if he were indicted i always hesitate to disagree with my friend neal. i don't think a sitting president could be forced to stand trial so there might be a thing called a statute of limitations, basically, so an indictment is filed. it would be a state case. but suppose the president said i have other things to do so we would suspend the statute of
6:31 pm
limitations and wait until the president is out of office. >> neal, did the framers of the constitution immunize is siting president frommed of their criminal prosecution? >> no and i hate to disagree with my good friend and teacher akhil. he's saying you can't proceed against a criminal trial but you could indict the president. there are statutes of limitations and other things that would kick in and defend a president and immunize them from all potential criminal liability so the indictment has to happen and this doesn't occur in a vacuum and scholars like akhil say you can't try a sitting president and those who say the reverse but the fundamental question is if mueller decides there is information sufficient to indict the president can he do so?
6:32 pm
three texts will illuminate that question. one is what career prosecutors have found which is they have said donald trump committed -- directed the commission of serious felonies of caver vmpai finance regulations. and then 600.7 says if mueller asks the attorney general or the acting attorney general to indict that the attorney general has to let that go forward unless it so clearly violates establish justice department policies that it's unwarranted and 600.9 says if the acting attorney general says that it triggers a report to congress and those provisions taken together say basically that if mueller asks, the attorney general cannot say flo to an indictment of the president because there is no established department policy for these kinds of campaign finance violations. akhil, do you agree with that?
6:33 pm
>> well, neal wrote the regulations way back when but regulations can be modified. the key thing neal is saying that s that at the end of the day the real constitutional prosecutor of the president is the house of representatives and we call a prosecution of a president constitutionally, that's an impeachment it's a prosecution of the president but the key is that decision made by in effect america's ultimate grand jury, the house of representatives reflecting all of america not one city typical grand jury will be coming from one location and we should be hesitant to let a grand jury in any one location undo a national election. every president whether republican or democrat, liberal or conservative will be unpopular in some places and you don't want to let people in just
6:34 pm
that one place take over the presidency and undo a presidential election. but the house of representatives has a democratic mandate to do that if necessary because they're the ultimate grand jury, they come from all of america. >> fascinating discussion. akhil and neal, thank you so much. >> thank you. by the way, it's akhil's father's 90th birthday. the democrats have power back in the house. how far will they go to investigate president trump? we'll look at that and talk to somebody who sits on the oversight committee next. messy situations. re of y and put irritation in its place. and if i can get comfortable keeping this tookus safe and protected... you can get comfortable doing the same with yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. hey. i heard you're moving into yeah, it's pretty stressful. this music is supposed to relax me, though. ♪ maybe you'd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you
6:35 pm
with your renters insurance. oh, geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. yeah, and they could save you a lot of money. wow, suddenly i feel so relieved. you guys are fired. get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance. i am all about living joyfully. the united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. traveling lighter. getting settled. rewarded. learn more at the explorer card dot com. heyi'm craving somethingkin! we're missing. the ceramides in cerave. they help restore my natural barrier, so i can lock in moisture... and keep us protected.
6:36 pm
we've got to have each other's backs... and fronts. cerave. what your skin craves. ed gets copays as lowlily go to as zero dollars on
6:37 pm
medicare part d prescriptions. ed gets labels clear as day. and, lily.... lily gets anything she wants. ed knows he could just have us deliver his prescriptions. but what's the fun in that? switch to cvs pharmacy. with democrats in control of the house, they're preparing to serve as a check on president trump, obviously. one new congresswoman caused a bit of a storm with her profane prediction. >> and when your son looks at you and says, mama, look, you won, bullies don't win and i
6:38 pm
said, baby, they don't. because we're going to go in there and we're going to impeach the mother [ bleep ]er. >> how far do democrats plan to go with their new powers? i spoke with one on the oversight committee a short while ago, congressman stephen lynch. congressman lynch, these comments from congresswoman tlaib. >> are they appropriate and helpful to democrats? >> they are certainly not. we hope to give the impression that we're taking a thoughtful approach to the issues in the house of representatives and that type of language unfortunately -- and i'm an iron worker so i have've heard it all but that is certainly inappropriate language to use. >> speaker pelosi said she wouldn't use the language but t it's nothing worse than what the president said. in terms of putting the language
6:39 pm
aside. talking about impeachment, is that a wise thing for democrats at this stage? >> no, i think we should be focusing on the process and wherever the facts lead, this is about the rule of law and if that is at the end of the road we're at the beginning of the process so for the past two years during republican control of the house we had no oversight so we have to begin from the beginning to start getting the facts and then holding the administration accountable for whatever we can determine they did. >> now that your party controls the oversight committee, you're saying you haven't seen enough that you believe an impeachment inquiry is appropriate at this stage? i spoke to congressman connolly
6:40 pm
who said he believes michael cohen's discussion will be enough to impeach the president. >> that will be step one. i talked to mr. cummings as well and we think it's important we spoke with michael cohen. that will be one of our initial forays into that whole situation. there's a wider concern about the tampering with the election. we had 14 of our security agencies, intelligence agencies confirm with high probability that the russians hacked the elections so there's been no meaningful investigation by congress even though we have that information from the intelligence committees so we think that's a good place to start but certainly the fact that michael cohen pled guilty, that that case is out of the way, he's been sentenced and we think he should be brought
6:41 pm
before congress and allow us publicly to get to the bottom of this and where the next steps might lead. >> do you think congress should defer to mueller's timeline before taking any major anxious? >> i think we have to be careful. obviously we would consult with the mueller investigation to make sure we don't do anything that jeopardizes or compromises that investigation. we have to give extreme curtsy but if interviewing mr. cohen doesn't interfere with that, that's something we're eager to do. >> also, jared kushner, for example, do you want to call him in front of your committee? congressman connolly raised the issue of kushner's security clearance. >> that's another issue. security clearances in general
6:42 pm
have become an issue so he's a likely subject of inquiry on the part of the committee as are the denials of security clearance from some individuals in their capacities with the administration currently so we want to look at that as well. >> congressman lynch, appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you. ahead, draining the swamp or filling it? more like the latter for president trump in some cases. he's given all kinds of former industry insiders cabinet-level power. we'll look at that next.
6:43 pm
6:44 pm
6:45 pm
6:46 pm
it was a pledge we heard over and over again from president trump on the 2016 campaign trail -- a promise to drain the swamp when he got to washington. hasn't exactly followed through. in fact, he's stocking up his own cabinet with acting heads who were once corporate executives or industry lobbyists. there's health and human serv e services secretary alex azar, the former president of lilly, usa. patrick shanahan, former boeing executive. acting secretary of the interior david bernhardt and andrew wheeler is a former coal industry lobbyist.
6:47 pm
joining me to talk about this, ambassador norm eisen, also former trump white house lawyer jim schultz. is this what a drained swamp looks like? >> no. this takeover of the trump administration by the special interest lobbyists is like the alligators taking over the swamp. this is not what the american people want. they want a government that serves the public interest, not special interests and in this environment where the trump administration has watered down the rules, they threw out our obama-era rule that a lobbyist cannot go work in an agency they lobbied, for example it's led to a crisis of confidence. no wonder you've seen almost ten million more americans, the largest number in history repudiate i believe this and other malfeasance by the trump administration in the midterm, a referendum on this special
6:48 pm
interest runaway riding the revolving door. it's the opposite of swamp draining. >> jim, i'll ask you the same question. is this draining the swamp? >> look, we have -- this administration has appointed very qualified people to these posts. for instance, acting secretary be be bernhardt, they go through a process and you know better, norm, to say they have conflicts of interest that may be causing them to not be able to do their jobs. they have ethics agreements that require recusals. they have to go through a stringent process with oge and oge with the career folks that review this take a look at these issues along with the career lawyers in the agencies and they look at -- and they draft ethics agreements to make sure that there's no conflicts of interest that are going to impact any day-to-day work of the acting secretaries. it's ludicrous to say that there
6:49 pm
are conflicts of interest. >> so, jim, you don't think it's problematic that there are multiple acting secretaries overseeing industries that they have deep financial ties to? >> you have very qualified people. when you have qualified people going into these roles and making decisions on behalf of the american people that are in the interests of the american people, the special interests on the left begin their attacks and folks like norm eisen begin their attacks. that's what's happening here. it's nothing more than that. this is a leftist issue, this is a leftist attack on very qualified people coming into this administration and serving this country. >> ambassador eisen, there's nothing prohibiting this from happen, is there? no law or guideline that says a former lobbyist can't serve as an acting cabinet secretary, right? >>, well, anderson, i think there is, no wonder jim schultz
6:50 pm
abandoned the trump administration. he had to get out because of cases like the case of mr. wheeler the acting epa head. he worked on the coal ash rules when he was a coal lobbyist for murray energy and he's working on the coal ash rules in the epa . and on issue after issue, the same thing. it's the revolving door. mr. bernhardt, who jim mentions as a poster boy of ethics has to carry a card with him. he has almost two dozen conflicts because of his special interest baggage. anderson, it is the opposite of swamp-draining. our government is being held captive by special interests. this is not a left versus right issue. all americans, 80% americans name it as one of the top two issues of both parties, anderson. they don't want a government that works for the special interests. the special interests of the right or the left. they want a government that works for the public interest. this government is not doing it
6:51 pm
with these former lobbyists running cabinet agency after cabinet agency. >> the american people elected donald trump because the leftist special interests in the obama administration were dominating. you have well-funded, well-organized groups going on the attack against this administration, against very qualified people who know their industries and know them well, and are working on issues on behalf of the american public and doing it very well. you know what that does? it makes the left very, very nervous. >> jim, just in terms of the sheer number of acting secretaries, how difficult does it make it for the administration when it comes to any kind of real movement on a specific policy level? >> look, all these folks were deputy secretaries, and they were high-ranking officials in those agencies when they were appointed the acting job. and they're all highly qualified people taking over those acting roles. and it's going to be incumbent upon congress to -- the senate to confirm the nominees once
6:52 pm
nominated, especially in the instance of the department of the interior. so i don't think they'll skip a beat as it relates to the policy issues that are being put forward by this administration, especially in important agencies like interior. >> all right. jim schultz, ambassador eisen, thank you. >> thanks, anderson. thanks jim. coming up, something to make you smile at the end of a long week. in dancing politicians are wrong, we don't want to be right. t theory dick li the ridic yew list is next. memories. what we deliver by delivering.
6:53 pm
6:54 pm
6:55 pm
what do you look for i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i don't want any trade minimums. yeah, i totally agree, they don't have any of those. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. do you just say yes to everything? hm. well i say no to kale. mm. yeah, they say if you blanch it it's better, but that seems like a lot of work. no hidden fees. no platform fees. no trade minimums. and yes, it's all at one low price. td ameritrade. ♪ time now for the ridiculist. tonight we have one of the silliest, non-controversy controversies ever to sully the
6:56 pm
life affirming space that is twitter.com. that's one anonymous troll whose account has since been deleted posted a video that i suppose was meant to, as the kids say, own new representative alexandria ocasio-cortez. here's the video. ♪ >> so, yeah, somebody dug up a video from when ocasio-cortez was a college student doing dance moves from the movie "the breakfast club." speaking as the mayor from "foot loose," i for one am aghast. but the stars. breck fast club were impressed. molly ringwald tweeted, that's it, alexandria, you're in the club. then alley sheedy re-tweeted it with the praise hands emoji. i think ocasio-cortez should be care 68, though, because if i know one thing, there's no
6:57 pm
crying in baseball. if i know two things, it's that there's no dancing in politics, with a few epgs sepgss. theresa may danced on camera. that was totally different because there are different rules for british -- but there have been a few american politicians who have cut a rug or two in their day. take, for example, the current energy secretary, rick perry, former governor, former contestant -- a contestant on "dancing with the stars." ♪ >> yeah, he's no tucker carlson. he was on an earlier season of "dancing with the stars." you may not remember that. no matter who you are, we'd all do well to heed the dire warning of one gloria estefan because eventually, the rhythm is going
6:58 pm
to get you. say it's halloween and thriller comes on. what is one supposed to do? ♪ because this is thriller >> that was then, and here's the current president participating in a traditional male-only ceremonial sword dance in saudi arabia. ♪ reluctantly participating. i'm not sure if molly ringwald will have any comment on that one. yeah. seems to be enjoying it. let's say that theoretically you're at the soul train awards and are expected to do the dougie or is it the doogie, as in howser? no. it's dougie. is anybody going to help me out on that one. dougie, i'm told. i was right the first time. what are you supposed to do?
6:59 pm
not do the dougie? what? now they're saying godoogie. don't torment me like this, control room. what is it? anybody? jerks. all right. well, let a take a look at blitzer doing it, whatever it is. ♪ >> see? as i said -- the dougie. i'm going with dougie. as i said, the controversy was a non-controversy, and representative ocasio-cortez responded to it on twitter with this. quote, i hear the gop thinks women dancing are scandalous. wait till they find out congresswomen dance too. have a great weekend, everyone. and she posted this video to go along with it. take a look. ♪
7:00 pm
with that, let's july just dance right into the weekend and on to the ridiculist. thanks for watching 360. it's time to turn it over to don lemon. "cnn tonight" starts right now. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. what a week. here we are in the final hours of day 14 of the shutdown with no end in sight. 800,000 federal employees still not getting paid. but president trump, after another closed-door with kro congressional leaders today, thinks everything is going great. >> so we had a productive meeting today with speaker pelosi and senator schumer. i thought it was really a very, very good meeting. we're all on the same path in terms of wanting t