tv CNN Newsroom with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto CNN January 18, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
very good friday morning to you. a busy one. i'm jim sciutto in washington. >> i'm poppy harlow in new york. the deep scandals, investigations and impropriety surrounding the 45th president. today one tree stands above the rest. buzzfeed is reporting this morning that president trump personally directed michael cohen to lie to congress under oath to commit perjury. again, they are reporting it was a directive. we should note cnn has not independently confirmed buzzfeed's reporting nor for that matter has anyone perjury. it is the very offense containd
trump's current lawyer rudy giuliani says, quote, if you believe cohen, i can get only c the special counsel already knew from other means that robert mueller has more than just michael cohen's word on this reportedly. however, if this is confirmed we should note that the subject of michael cohen's dishonest testimony was the trump organization's attempt to build a trump tower in moscow, attempts that carried on throughout the campaign for president and an issue that's central to the russia investigation. this morning the democratic chairman of the house judiciary committee vowing to get to the bottom of it. much more on that in a moment. we want to begin with shimon who's been following the story. cnn has not confirmed this. what's new in the story? >> one of the most damning things is there is other evidence according to buzzfeed than just michael cohen's words.
that's what is so significant if the reporting is true. let's look at that. buzzfeed is saying from this directive trump gave to cohen to lie to congress that investigators pieced together other information. they have text messages, a cache of other documents and say cohen acknowledged the instructions during his interviews with the special counsel. basically saying, yeah, you know, this is what the president told me to do. the significant thing in this part of the story obviously is there is other information. the other thing they are saying, you know, that michael cohen had basically told the special counsel that trump directed him to lie to congress and that also he had provided details of the conversations about the project with the president and ivanka and donald trump, jr.
that's significant because don jr. and ivanka have always denied any substantial participation, anything that has to do with the project. >> listen, there is a lot going on in this story here. we have seen a response now from ivanka at least to this. >> this is coming from the spokesperson for her attorney. essentially they are denying she had any big role in the project because the buzzfeed story is saying she did have a much bigger answer. her spokesperson says ms. trump did not know about this proposal until after a nonbinding letter of intent had been signed, never talked to anyone outside the organization about the proposal, never visited the projected project cite and was only min l mali involved. this contradicts what the story is saying that she had a bigger role in this. the bottom line is if this is the case that the special counsel is sitting on this
information and we are just now learning about it, i think certainly members of congress are going to have an issue with this. this is much different than a russia collusion investigation where we are interested in sources and methods. this is information that clearly comes from subpoenas or when they executed a search warrant on michael cohen's office. you would think this information would be out there for members of congress. >> and you see demands from members of congress saying if this is true come out now. we have to make an immediate judgment on that. that's a big if. thank you very much. poppy? >> reaction from the hill to all of this is just coming in. the house judiciary chairman jerry nadler making his opinion clear. he writes directing a lie to congress is a federal crime. the committee's job is to get to the bottom of it. we'll work to do that. he has a powerful position to do
that now. other democratic lawmakers not holding back. castro tweeting president trump must resign or be impeached. this is obstruction of justice, period, full stop. ted lu writing it's time to start holding hearings to establish a record of whether potus committed high crimes. we don't have reaction from republican lawmakers yet. this morning one will join us shortly. just to reiterate this is reporting from buzzfeed not confirmed by cnn nor by any other outlet. >> it is important to note -- let's bring in former fbi josh campbell and ellie hoenig. if this were confirmed to be true put it into context for us, the significance here. we should note it would not be the first time michael cohen said -- in fact, he pleaded guilty to a campaign finance crime he said the president
directed him to do. those being the payments to stormy daniels, hush money in effect. if this were true as well, why is this particularly significant? >> there is a lot to unpack here. the first thing i would say is we are seeing reaction from democratic lawmakers. the thing i would ask them to do is slow your roll. these talks of impeachment and removing the president and obstruction of justice. they are skipping an important step. that's the investigation. we have mentioned this is buzzfeed reporting. we haven't independently confirmed it. they have to understand as well they have to investigate. congressman lu had it right saying they should hold hearings. folks should realize there are additional steps here. let's talk about the investigation. michael cohen is on record now admitting to lying. at the end of the day we are going to have two people who are liars telling a different story. we have michael cohen and the president. at the end of the day it comes down to what's in the reporting as far as text messages,
e-mails, communications between people in trump orbit talking about this. that's the key aspect of the investigation. absent some other information this is people saying things. >> that's important. it's beyond that, as you know. it's beyond the he said, he said. when you read through the full buzzfeed report there are interviews with multiple people from the trump organization. internal e-mails, text messages and a cache of other documents. it is important as far as we know that the president doesn't send e-mails, at least now. and isn't an avid texter. ellie, to you on the legal issue here and the question of articles of impeachment here should the story be completely factual. word for word, you have parallels here with the first article of impeachment used, passed by the house judiciary committee against richard nixon. let me bring it up on the screen. it accuses nixon of approving, condoning, counseling witnesses
with respect to giving up false or misleading testimony in judicial and congressional proceedings. should house members decide to move forward with articles of impeachment, would this be a template? >> it could be, poppy. impeachment is a political judgment based on high crimes and misdemeanors. do we have a crime here? if true, this is the clearest and cleanest example we have yet of this president committing a federal crime. in fact, i say several federal crimes while in office. the federal crimes that would be implicated include obstruction of justice, witness tampering, perjury, conspiracy. all of those things would be in play if this is proven out. the big question is will this be more than a he said/he said. rudy giuliani is casting it as one word against another. he had a quote that if you believe michael cohen, i'll sell you the brooklyn bridge. reading between the lines, there
is quite a bit of information that backs up michael cohen. when michael cohen was sentenced mueller said michael cohen provided information regarding the preparing and circulating of cohen's response to the congressional inquirienquiries. the fact that mueller was willing to put it in print is a hint to me, an indicator that he has something more than michael cohen's information, he has something to back it up. i don't believe robert mueller or my colleagues would put it in writing unless they had more than michael cohen's say-so to back it up. >> that's a great catch there from mueller's previous releases here. josh campbell, if this is substantiated let's go back to the william barr hearings a few days ago. republicans and democrats, but republicans as well set it up with the ag nominee as an impeachable offense. have a listen.
>> so if there was some reason to believe the president tried to coach somebody not to testify or to testify falsely, that could be obstruction of justice? >> yes, under an obstruction statute, yes. >> so if there is evidence that the president tried to conceal evidence, that would be obstruction of justice potentially, right? >> right. >> in your memo, you talked about the comey decision. you talk about obstruction of justice and you already went over that, which i appreciate. you wrote on page one a president persuading a person to commit perjury would be obstruction. is that right? >> yes. >> okay. >> any -- any person who persuades another -- yeah. >> you also said a president or any person convincing a witness to change testimony would be obstruction. is that right? >> yes. >> josh campbell, those were not equivocal answers there.
>> we are in an era of hyper partisanship and polarization. people looked at the allegation of collusion. is that cooperation? is it illegal? this is not that. this is nonpartisan. i think both sides of republicans and democrats agree obstruction of justice is illegal and wrong. when you are lying to congress or suborning perjury asking someone else to lie that's illegal, full stop. there is no shade of gray there. that makes it troubling if the allegations pan out and what makes it explosive is you have the president of the united states telling or directing someone to lie to the legislative branch of government. we have the attorney general nominee. he will be on record now indicating obstruction isn't something he would stand for which puts him in a position of what would you do for it. that's something we'll continue to watch. >> to the old adage, you know, it's not necessarily the crime but the cover-up. ongoing attempts, alleged
attempts to curry favor with a hostile power while running for president are one thing. when it comes to actual potential impeachment proceedings it is almost incidental. the real offense here would be lying about and instructing someone to lie about it to congress under oath. >> i think it is both the cover-up and the crime here. in the narrower view we have the president sitting in a room instructing michael cohen and it sounds like there were others in on it. you're going in and you're going to lie. that's a cover-up. but i would argue it relates to collusion as well. what was the substance of michael cohen's false testimony to congress? he lied and said the moscow deal, trump's efforts to build a $100 million skyscraper in moscow were over as of january 16. in fact, they carried into june of 2016. critical phases of the election. that goes to the larger question of collusion between the campaign and russia.
why did donald trump want russian help? why did the russians want to help trump win the election? he was trying to build an enormous skyscraper in moscow and he needed governmental approvals. that's the motive behind the collusion. this could be both a crime in its own right and could go to the larger collusion picture. >> it's a great point. you could not claim this is a tangential issue about hush money payments. it goes to russia, one, and the appearance at least of a quid pro quo. it's something we'll certainly follow. >> yeah. we are not going anywhere. thank you for the expertise. we are staying on top of the developments because there are more layers to the reporting that are important to explain. we are waiting for the president to respond. no doubt that's the first question he and his team will be asked about this morning. stay with us. >> plus, pelosi versus the president. the ugly battle gets uglier as the shutdown stalemate enters day 28, four weeks.
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welcome back. a new buzzfeed story cites two law enforcement sources saying the president directed michael cohen to lie to congress about a trump tower project in moscow. cnn has not confirmed the story. if true, it would be significant and it would be a crime. >> again, cnn has not independently confirmed this. president trump's current lawyer rudy giuliani has responded it is not believable but not an outright denial. attacking the credibility of michael cohen who is not the only voice in this story. let's talk more about what it could mean for the president. joining us now jackie casinic and special assistant to george w. bush. good morning to you. scott, if this is true, it is
damning. it is a federal offense. it is an impeachable offense. if the president, like the report lays out, directed michael cohen to lie to congress about something very significant and that's the timing of the project would be financially beneficial to the president then candidate trump extended far beyond january of 2016. that's a serious issue. no response from the president this morning. what's your read? >> it would be serious if true. if i were the president this morning i would deny it myself. i wouldn't leave it to a spokesperson. this story warrants a denial from the president himself. i would say there is a paragraph in the story doing a lot of work. it is nebulous about the evidence that supposely corroborates what cohen said. the reporter admits he hasn't personally seen the evidence. while i completely agree with you that if any of this is true it would be extremely serious, i'm naturally a skeptical
person. before anyone has seen the evidence, including the reporter, you have all the democrats now who want to jump off the ledge on impeachment. my political advice would be to slow down. >> it does source two sources. one of the buzzfeed reporters told "new day" an hour ago they have more sources that were off the record. only these two sources confirming it that they could put on therd ro. they had backup sources on this as well. they point to e-mails, text messages and other documentary evidence here. >> they point to it. they don't describe it. they haven't seen it and they don't know exactly what it is. i'm not saying the reporters have done anything wrong. it might be 100% true. i'm just naturally skeptical. none of us have seen the evidence. i want to see it before i start making crazy predictions about going down an impeachment road or anything else that could happen. >> jackie, let's be clear. this doesn't come out of nowhere. michael cohen has already
pleaded to a crime that was substantiated in court. that being that the president participated in making hush money payments to stormy daniels just prior to the election. "wall street journal" reported yesterday that michael cohen has said the president directed him to pay money to fix polls prior to the election. to be clear, the president directing his fixture to if not break the law to do shady stuff is not the first time we have heard that. >> right. it goes beyond michael cohen's word which we should be skeptical of. he lied to congress. he's a convicted felon. the man he paid yesterday with a walmart bag and a boxing glove who was saying this occurred in that "wall street journal" story. i do agree with scott though. you're hearing it from members of congress. the ones who aren't calling for impeachment saying they need to see the evidence.
they know if they go forward with impeachment it has to be rock solid. they can't shoot and aim on something this important which is why you are hearing people like jerry nadler say yes, this is problematic. i don't have the tweet in front of me. we are going to do our job. you will hear more of it not necessarily from rank and file but the leadership of the party. >> i wonder if i could ask you this. again, this is an if. if bob mueller has evidence of this and corroborated evidence beyond michael cohen, some democrats say show us your cards now. let's not wait for the final report. by itself, this is significant enough. would you agree with that? >> i actually do agree. the mueller investigation has gone on for a long time. the american people are waiting for this thing to end. we want to know what the russians do to try to influence
the election and anything else that turned up. if this is part of what turned up and obviouly it would ramp it up to a serious level, i think waiting another three, six, nine, 12 months to me if i were a member of congress that would make me upset. i actually agree with the democrat who said that. a lot of republicans would agree. they would say, yeah, if you've got something rock solid, something like this you can bring forward today. go ahead and get it up on the hill. that's a reasonable position. i would probably take the same if i were in congress today. >> thank you very much as always. >> coming up, still ongoing political battle between donald trump and nancy pelosi getting more heated. so heated one adviser is calling it, quote, king kong versus godzilla.
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unfortunately we can't say a deal has been made. don't expect a shutdown deal in the next few days. lawmakers are already out of town. another sign no deal in sight at least in the near term. the battle between the president and house speaker nancy pelosi has taken a public and ugly turn. the president nixed pelosi's war zone trip after she said he should delay his state of the union address until the government is back open. he says he delayed her trip on a military plane because of the shutdown. critics say it looks like payback. just hours after the announcement, the first lady took an air force jet to mar-a-lago. there it is landing last night. the president also cancelled the entire u.s. delegation trip to the world economic forum in switzerland. let's go to phil matingly joining us now. if you look at some of the criticism here from lindsey graham, also john cornant they don't like how it's looking from
pelosi or the president. >> i think when you get into it, lindsey graham putting out a statement saying one sophomore move doesn't justify another. it underscores something apparent on capitol hill. that's regardless of party, everybody is just down. nobody seems to know the way out. everybody recognizes on the rank and file at least where leadership stands and where the president stands, the white house stands the positions are so diametrically opposed and given we are four weeks into a government shutdown, the fact they are still in the positions today, there are no talks scheduled. no proposals being traded back and forth. i'm told there are no phone calls scheduled. most senators and members of congress have gone home for the weekend at this point. there is just a recognition that everything is in a bad place now in terms of actually resolving the issue. if you wanted to know maybe postponing the state of the union would loosen things up a little bit.
the president is tweeting why would nancy pelosi leave the country with other democrats on a seven-day excursion when 800,000 great people are not getting paid. it was called beneath the office and petty. not to sound a dreary note this early on a friday morning but things are not in a good place and aren't headed there any time soon. >> gosh, it's the american citizens who pay the salaries of congress to get it figured out that are stuck. jim? >> joining me now republican congressman adam kinsinger of the great state of illinois. thanks for taking the time. >> you bet. thank you for having me. >> i want to first ask you about the buzzfeed story. you are aware of the headline there trump personally instructed michael cohen to lie to congress about the moscow trump tower project. there is a big if there. mueller, of course, hasn't said it publicly. cnn and others haven't confirmed
it. if the president were to instruct the lawyer to lie to congress, in your view would that be an impeachable offense? >> i'm not going to that level. obviously it's concerning if it's true. i was watching "new day" this morning. i know there are concerns about the reporter. i'm not saying that's an incorrect story. it's sourced on anonymous sourcing. i expect to hear more from mueller or the mueller report. as every member of congress should reserve judgment until we see the facts in their totality. it is very concerning, this accusation. for a person like me to stand up and say whether it's impeachable or not or anything on any of these before we have the totality of evidence is frankly dangerous. >> do you believe if mueller did have proof of that that this is something we should break out now? in other words, show his cards today rather than wait until the final report. >> see, i don't know the kind of what a special counsel is
supposed to do in terms of do they immediately release evidence that they are extremely concerned about or do they put it in the totality of a report. this is new to me. i have never been around with a special counsel. i put a lot of, i guess, faith in the process right now. i think it seems like probably sooner than later. i hope sooner than later. it's gone on for a while. we get the totality of the report and every member of congress as an american, not a republican or democrat can see what's going on. >> you voted along with the democratic colleagues to re-open government. you have called the shutdown fight in clear terms you often use. you have called it flat out stupid. as you know, gop leadership is sticking with the president on this in both the house and the senate. is that a mistake? >> i think the mistake is that nobody is talking. we have gotten into this. this is what's frustrating me if i can just opine for a moment. we are two, three weeks into a new term. we are already thinking about
the presidential election. we are already in re-election mode. my side and the other side are stuck in these positions that they are unwilling to come off of to get to a compromise solution. compromise isn't a dirty word. the whole constitution was co compromi compromise. my advice is this. democrats have to come off the point of never talkin about a wall. i have worked the border. walls work in certain areas. we have to say what is it you guys want in the process, how is it that we can work together? right now, we are all in our corners waiting for one side to completely capitulate and lose. that's what politics has become. it breaks a system built for compromise, not for winners and losers. >> you are an afghan veteran as a pilot. as you know the president cancelled last minute a trip to afghanistan. democratic members of the party in retaliation.
white house officials said it was in retaliation for nancy pelosi's request for the president to postpone the state of the union speech. is that a presidential decision or is it petty? >> i think this is all petty. if the president was going to cancel he should have done it earlier so it wasn't the spectacle of an hour before. i think the speaker probably should have cancelled that on her own. i have been in government shutdowns before and have had trips cancelled because of it. leaving, even a place like afghanistan which is important for her to go to during a government shutdown is not appropriate. that said, cancelling the state of the union speech was petty. initially citing security concerns. then saying, well, it is not a security concern. we don't want to work because people aren't being paid. the capitol police secure the capitol and they are paid. this is all petty. i want it to go away. i want all of us to figure out
how to get to an agreement. it will be a win-win or a lose-lose. neither side will have a total loss. it is time we act like adults like the american people expect us to. then we can look back and wonder what the shutdown is about. at least we have something people like. >> 30 days, 60 or 90. who knows at this point? you met with the president and a small group of lawmakers yesterday specifically on syria. as you know, i don't have to remind you, we have identified the u.s. soldiers killed in syria two days ago. did the president's decision to with draw from syria -- and there are their names. jonathan farmer, shannon kent, scott wirtz. is the president's decision to with draw from syria, does it put u.s. forces in greater risk? >> on this attack, i don't know the details of why this person did it. it was a member of isis who probably traveled from a different country to kill americans and probably would have done it without this
announcement. i think when you announce isis is defeated and we are leaving this is a boon to the recruiting efforts of isis. maybe if you say, look, we are going to shift the strategy to attack out of iraq or whatever else the case may be, that's important. this is a generational fight. it took 50 years to defeat the soviet union through a different kind of fight. it was through ideas. that generation of people behind the iron curtain rejected the iron curtain. the same thing will have to happen to terrorism. we have to win the war of ideas, too. >> brett mcgurk until he resigned as a result of the syria withdrawal, he has an op-ed out in the post today that says trump said he beat isis. instead he's giving it new life with the withdrawal. do you agree? >> when you say isis is defeated it does give them new life.
like obama left in 2011, we saw al qaeda become isis. i agree on this. i will tell you my discussions with the president and that's obviously in the oval office. he's pained by having to make the decision. he's burdened by what the right thing to do is. that's obvious. i think he's cerebral in thinking about what the right thing is. he's had a wrong voice in his head for a while in the name of senator rand paul. >> you say he's weighted down by it. did you sense wavering, reconsideration on the decision? his defense secretary resigned over it. >> i don't want to go into it and reveal. i think those are discussions that should happen in trust. i will say he wants to make the right decision. i will say rand paul continually saying things like enough war is enough doesn't understand that fighting terrorism isn't a choice the united states has. it is just where we fight them is our choice. i will say the president thinks hard about a lot of this stuff.
i will say that to his credit. >> congressman kinzinger, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> up next, a look at the trump tower moscow project. how far did it go or not? it is the one at the center of the explosive buzzfeed report. ♪ it is such a good time to dance ♪ ♪ it is such a good time to [ laughing ] ♪ scoobidoo doobidoo ♪ scoobidoo doobidoo [ goose honking ] ♪ [ laughing ] a bad day on the road still beats a good one off it. ♪ progressive helps keep you out there. discover.o! ♪ i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been
welcome back. a busy friday morning for jim and i and all of you to digest this news, new explosive reporting from buzzfeed shedding light on the trump towers project in moscow. cnn has not independently confirmed the reporting. the reporting is that the president directed his former attorney michael cohen to lie to
congress about that project and about how long discussions surrounding it went. that's important, right? joining us from moscow, frederik pleitgen. did the president direct cohen to lie to congress about the length of the project and how long it went. what do we know? according to the trump team previously the narrative was this was at such an initial stage, not taken seriously, didn't go far. what do you know? >> reporter: well, poppy, it seems as though it was beyond, i would say, initial stages. at least it seemed it was taken a lot more seriously than some of the people or some of the things we have heard in the past. it seems as though there have been several efforts to try to get a trump tower, trump project going in moscow over the years. this particular one seems to have been launched sometime late in 2015, around september of 2015 with michael cohen and
felix saber spearheading this. candidate trump more involved than people thought. efforts began in to 15 and later michael cohen claimed the talks had ended in january of 2016. apparently that was not true. it was then later found out that he had, in fact, reached out to the kremlin to try to get the project off the ground to try to get permissions for the project. it was one of the big things last year i was involved with, was trying to get confirmation from the press secretary of the kremlin who said, well, yeah, we did receive an e-mail from michael cohen and despite the fact that the kremlin said they didn't react to the e-mail they did. they got in touch with michael cohen. it was a secretary for peskov who had discussions with michael cohen. it is unclear how far that went. it seems as though the project still continued with felix sader and michael cohen trying to get a trip together for president trump or candidate trump to go
to moscow and to try to lobby for the project. that trip never happened. it seems as though that was far more than the initial stages. there seem to have been efforts going on to make it enticing for the russians like for instance offering vladimir putin the penthouse apartment in the block that was supposed to be developed. >> thank you for laying out the facts. jim? >> i'm sure russia is watching this closely. north korea's top negotiator in the nuclear talks is in washington now. sources say he has another letter to the president from kim jong-un. will he hand deliver it to mr. trump? k... a lot will happen in your life. wrinkles just won't. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair's derm-proven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. making wrinkles look so last week. rapid wrinkle repair®
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welcome back. in just over an hour north korea's lead negotiator will meet with mike pompeo hammering out details about a second summit that we know president trump wants to have with unkim jong-un. >> a source says he is carrying a personal letter to president trump. the white house has allocated time for the president to meet face-to-face although no official meeting has been set up. let's discuss with bill richardson, also former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. he has been involved with several direct talks with north korea. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> let me ask you this. watching this since that famous summit in singapore about a half a year ago, what are the results
of the negotiations between the u.s. so far, the irreversible results on de-nuclearization. are there any other than discussing yet another summit? >> well, the window is closing for progress since that summit. usually what happens when the talks are in trouble, the spy chief comes to see the president, gives him a nice letter from kim jong-un making very vague promises and nothing happens. i think u.s. negotiators are taking the right position. they want to see the north koreans take even one step towards de-nuclearization like disclose where the weapons and missiles are and inventory. north korea hasn't done that. they have done some good things on remains of our soldiers, but the talks right now are very much at a stand still. what needs to happen is north korea needs to do something. what they want, what north korea
wants is they want an end to the korean war and they want some sanctions relief. we are saying to them maybe we'll do this, but you have to show something on de-nuclearization and north korea isn't doing it. maybe it's good that the spy chief is here. usually when he comes to washington with a letter it could be more vague promises and buying time. >> ambassador richardson, as someone who has travelled a number of times to north korea to help in prison releases, et cetera, what do you make of the school of thought -- there is a camp that believes that north korea has not done anything other than soldiers remains being returned, some of them, because they have a strategy that they think will work in terms of going to a summit number two and getting further concessions out of president trump? >> well, i think that's a good assessment. the president wants a summit,
also. he loves these summits. sometimes he gets in trouble. kim jong-un wants the summit to show his people that he is on the world stage with the president of the united states. but kim jong-un so far i would lay more blame on the north koreans as not taking almost any steps on de-nuclearization. yes, he has, for instance, not had any detonations of nuclear weapons, no missiles tests. that is good. there is less tension on the peninsula. on the commitments that he made at the first summit he hasn't delivered. and then we have the president who should let his negotiators -- he has a good negotiator in the special envoy -- get a little more out of the north koreans and not be so eager for a new summit without some commitments by the north koreans. >> by the administration's own standards, complete, verifiable irreversible to denuclearize, none of that has happened to this point.
is it a mistake for president trump to reward in effect north korea with another piece of that world stage you described, another face-to-face meeting with the u.s. president without any steps of the administration defined as success in these talks? >> it would be a mistake if the president just agrees to another summit without some concrete commitments from the north koreans. maybe if they establish a framework for negotiations. okay, north korea we will do something on sanctions relief and the declaration of war against you, but you take some concrete steps like the inventory of where your weapons are, where your missiles are and the commitment for verification and to go look at them. unless we get something like that, i think giving a summit to the north koreans, having another summit with another letter that says we are buddies and let's get together again and
talk, i think it would be a mistake. i hope it doesn't happen. the president should back his negotiators on this. the worry is he won't. >> you say it is a mistake, ambassador richardson, but is it dangerous? >> yes. you don't want the state of tension that existed before. what motivates both leaders is both want an improvement in relations. both want less tension. both want a summit. i think the president should be patient and let his negotiators get something out of the north koreans. but this is how the north koreans negotiate. they want you to give everything first and then they don't do much. make them take some steps. >> and you certainly know from your extensive experience on that front with the regime. bill richardson, thank you very much. have a nice weekend. we're following all the new
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